Latest / Coconut Justice / CJP #38: Keira Havens - Citizen's Impeachment
Transcript
- Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So when I tell you guys that I'm a fan of rabble rousers and that I like to bring people to your attention that are trying to make the world a better place, I'm basically talking about people like Keira Havens. This is Keira Havens from Citizens Impeachment. Hi. Keira Havens: You Hello, hello, glad to be here. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Nice to finally meet you. Keira Havens: Yes, I'm happy to be talking to people. We're at the point where impeachment has gone mainstream and so, so are we. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And come to the front of the class, the one and only C4 Explosives. Hello. Keira Havens: Mm-hmm. Cefore X. Plosives: wherever are. Hello, Pardon my voice. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, we are learning about the limitations of the United States health care plan directly from Mike. He's not feeling good and he's looking for help and they told him to go home and take a nap. Cefore X. Plosives: That's it. Pretty much. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So let's jump on it. Let's get into it right away. Citizens impeachment. What do you guys do? Keira Havens: Well, it's right what it says on the tin. We're a bunch of citizens. We are after the impeachment of Donald Trump and his enablers. We've been around since April 2025, entirely grassroots, entirely unfunded. We're all extremely tired. But ⁓ what we've been really attempting to bully our way into the halls of power, quite frankly, because Congress ⁓ has stopped listening to us and has abdicated their responsibility to rein in the executive branch. They've just been sitting on their hands. for about nine months now and so we have been after them to get moving. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Is there? Is there a technique that you guys are using or are you guys just calling and annoying and calling and annoying and Keira Havens: Yeah, so one of the most surprising things I learned in this process was that most offices have a completely separate avenue for what they call constituent correspondence. So when you as a constituent call them up or send an email ⁓ requesting a written response or something like that through their contact form, they send it to someone whose only job is to provide you with pre-written PDFs, you know, at like some point in the future. You guys have all had this happen, right? Where you send in a comment. And then four months later, you get a PDF that's basically completely irrelevant to your question. That's because you are a constituent. That's why you get that terrible response. So what we do is we actually look for the people in the offices and we get their email addresses. And we take legislative questions to the legislative director and we take ⁓ requests for comment to the press director. And we try to gear the citizen interaction. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Ha ha ha ha. Keira Havens: to the specific person responsible for handling that within the office. So we know at the very least we are reaching a human being and not just being pushed into a spreadsheet or a workflow for that PDF. We're really trying to get past that barrier. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Why? I'm trying to figure out, okay, let me say it like this. Why do we have money to flip rockets and land them on these really cool targets that we put in the middle of the ocean, but we don't have money to improve the process of actual governing? Keira Havens: ⁓ That is a great question. Let me tell you, I would like to change that. ⁓ After nine months of doing this, we have actually gone ahead and set up a pack to make that happen. We're looking to make government more responsive. It's called ⁓ Courage for Democracy. We have a number of courage candidates that are willing to actually step up. They've endorsed the impeachment articles that we've written. They will introduce them on day one of their term. But a huge piece of this. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hahahaha ⁓ Keira Havens: is just putting people into office that actually listen to their constituents, right? Congress has a vested interest in not listening. They have a vested interest in continuing to play the status quo corporate game. And if they were to stand up and use their powers, right, the powers that they have as one of the most powerful groups of people in the entire world to censure Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: their colleagues or expel them even from the Senate if they are not doing their job, to pursue the impeachment of the executive, to call special committees and look into, I mean, at this point every single day there's something that you could do, a special committee to investigate. ⁓ To enforce subpoenas, that's another big one. You can arrest people for not showing up if they refuse to come talk to Congress. There is so much that Congress could be doing, but that would rock the boat. And so they don't. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And I got excited and I'm working through my ADHD and I'm trying really hard to not interrupt people. when you said... ⁓ Keira Havens: You're good. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You're talking about basically they're wasting time and they're not letting us get to the point where we get to ask questions of our representatives and being able to actually make them do something. How did we even get here? Keira Havens: That's such a good question. ⁓ So in 1995, this is a little bit of history that we've pieced together. ⁓ In 1995, Newt Gingrich and the Contract for America took the House. ⁓ The ⁓ Democratic Party got crushed in those midterms. ⁓ And what happened was a new form of governance in the Senate. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: something called unanimous consent took center stage. So the Senate is full of weird old rules because it is a weird old institution ⁓ and weird old people. And so the Senate has a way to bypass those weird old rules called unanimous consent. ⁓ If a Senator wants to bypass the rule, they say, hey guys, can we skip the rule? And if nobody objects to skipping the rule, unanimous consent. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and weirdo people. Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: then they can skip it and they can do whatever they want. And what this does is it really speeds up things like nominations or confirmations. ⁓ It speeds up the legislative calendar so you can get to big pieces of legislation faster. All it takes to object to this is just to raise your hand as a senator and say, I object. That's it. You don't have to plan with anybody. You get to make a little speech about why you object, right? Which is nice if you want to tell people that. It takes zero preparation or planning and there's zero consequence for it. You can just object. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and they're not even forced to come up with like an alternative plan. They just say, no, I don't like that. Well, okay, well, how are we gonna do it better then? And then they get to walk away. Keira Havens: No. So they just have to follow their own rules, that's it. This is a request to skip the rules. And so you say, no, we have to follow the rules this time. That's the entirety of this process. ⁓ The Senate has granted unanimous consent, at least by the time I stopped counting last year around September, about a thousand times. And what that means is that they have confirmed, ⁓ they have confirmed Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Good God. Keira Havens: This Trump administration's nominees at a rate by like a month in at a rate faster than both Biden and Trump number one combined. Like this is just in the congressional record that they were just sending these guys straight through. And the reason I bring this up is because prior to this 1995 moment, unanimous consent got used like 200 times a year, maybe. After that, it was up in the 6 and 7,000 times per year. Just an enormous leap. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hmm. Keira Havens: in this sort of lockstep refusal to govern under the actual rules, refusal to oppose, skipping the rules. It became a central feature of the way this democracy worked. And most of the senators that are in place right now have been there for 30 plus years. So they're still living in the 1990s behaving as if Bill Clinton had just got impeached. Cefore X. Plosives: it's Keira Havens: And operating in the past. And so, you you've heard the Carlin joke, right? It's a big club and you're not in it. And we are definitely not in it, but they all are. And they're working to preserve that club. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): for real. Mm-hmm. Cefore X. Plosives: Thanks. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Do you guys focus on or do term limits come up in your conversations? Keira Havens: Yeah, we have been like laser focused on impeachment because impeachment is something that the House can do right now immediately every single day. Like that is, any representative can file articles of impeachment. Any representative can force those articles to a vote. And so we have really focused on making that specific piece of Congress work because in order to do that, you got to grow a spine and you have to be willing to say, well, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Keira Havens: This is unconstitutional and therefore I am going to hold this administration accountable, which is something that Congress struggles with, right? ⁓ So we haven't really talked about, ⁓ it says I'm trying to reconnect. Can you all hear me? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): All right, so it's OK. ⁓ It's it is kind of breaking up a little bit. But the good thing about how Riverside does this is it records onto your computer and then at the same time it loads it up. So hopefully we won't have that interruption. Keira Havens: Sorry folks, did you hear me there? Hmm. ⁓ okay. Gotcha. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's how I understand it's supposed to work, but yeah. If you want, go back, go back probably about a paragraph and let us have it back, okay? Keira Havens: Okay. Okay, yeah, no problem. The short version is that we are not looking at term limits yet. We've been laser focused on impeachment because that's something that the House can do right now immediately. ⁓ But what we hope to do through this Courage for Democracy PAC is really build out these policy positions that make for a more responsive government and find candidates that are going to make those possible. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): One of the things that really frustrates me about this whole apparatus is Normal people are supposed to follow the rules and we're told what to do and how to do and all these things. Meanwhile, the people that are in charge should have more rules and you're supposed to follow the process that's available. ⁓ Why is it flipped? We're the boss. We're asking you what we well, I understand that everyone is old and they're in Congress and blah, blah, all that stuff. But how are we going to get back to the point where they're the ones that have to live on a different level and the normal folks shouldn't have to worry about them that much? Keira Havens: This is a great question as well. I mean, my personal response at this point is by bullying them relentlessly. That is the way forward because they seem motivated by shame, quite frankly. We just learned recently that apparently they can't delete comments from their official social media accounts. So I mean, go tear them a new one. Yeah. I mean, and we've seen several times. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ⁓ the way that they do us. Okay, cool. Bum bum. Keira Havens: Nobody has admitted this, right? But we've seen, at least in the work that we've been doing, somebody will show up, yell at them in their, in whatever social media platform they prefer. And then the next day they change their position on something. ⁓ And we've seen it as well with the formal work that we've been doing. Just yesterday, Representative Jeffries, the minority leader, went on CNN to explain to folks how the House has impeachment authority and that they can introduce impeachment articles under Rule 9. For nine straight months, Jeffries has been insisting that they cannot pursue impeachment. We know this because every time we suggest that they should pursue impeachment, there's an article in Axios about how mad it makes the Democrats that somebody is making them impeach. And Jeffries is in there saying it's not possible. And now, nine months later, we have built enough public pressure that he has to go on national television and say, yeah, I guess we actually do have this power. We can use it and do things with it. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): He's digging his own grave. I'm sorry for interrupting. Hakeem Jeffries is digging his own grave. What he doesn't understand is we, Mike and I, just got done interviewing Vance Bostic. Keira Havens: not at all. Cefore X. Plosives: Yes he is. Keira Havens: Amazing, he's one of our courage candidates. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Excellent. Yes. And let me tell you, the energy that Vance is bringing to the argument is incomparable. Hakeem Jeffries, I'm looking at him, I'm like, come on, my guy. You got this guy from New York and you're like, this dude's going to have teeth. And then he shows up all gums, which in a different discussion, OK, cool, but not this one. Keira Havens: you You Cefore X. Plosives: Yes, yes, yes. Keira Havens: You're in danger. Yeah. mean, it's really the contrast between the courage candidates have been one of the most hopeful things that we have done. So there's 83 of them now from 28 states in gubernatorial races and in federal Senate and House races. And these people give a shit. Like they care. That's why they're in this. And for a lot of them, this is not a Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ⁓ wow, nice. Keira Havens: you know, this hasn't been like a lifelong dream to be a politician. This is people who had like real lives and careers saying, well, I can clear this bar of these feckless cowards that are in Congress right now. So I'm going to do it. And I'm going to take the fight to them because apparently the only thing elected representatives understand is if you threaten their job. So, all right, let's do it. Let's make them afraid that they're not, they're not going to keep their job next year. We can do that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Cefore X. Plosives: and they think they could be there forever. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm hmm. And do you think that the the tamping down? Keira Havens: Yeah, a lot of them do. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Do you think the tamping down on social media of all of these ⁓ grassroots candidates is done on purpose? Keira Havens: Yeah, shadow banning is, I mean, that's a big question, right? We've seen it throughout the Palestine protest movement, right? ⁓ There is a aggressive tamping down and suppression of ⁓ Palestinian content of any kinds. ⁓ It is a big danger of having, you know, large tech companies control both the infrastructure and the delivery of content that you yourself create. ⁓ And it is... it is unfortunately extremely difficult to say whether or not this is a specific action of a specific individual or if it is, you know, the algorithm, which is also ⁓ values codified by individuals, right? But this is part of the obfuscation. This is part of the lack of transparency that is super frustrating and prevents the connection of like the government and the governed. Because once you connect those two pieces, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: ⁓ then stuff starts to change, right? We're seeing it with, with the outrage, ⁓ after the, the executions of ICE, right? Recently on camera, Terrible has galvanized the entirety of the nation above and beyond Minnesota, and they are forced to walk back their positions now on ICE entirely, on funding it, on Kristi Noem, on impeachment even, but it should not take a Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mmm. Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: It should not take the murders of Americans on camera in cold blood to start this process, right? We should be able to handle this without murders. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Think of this. Think of how upset everyone was when 9-11 happened. Someone came and killed a bunch of innocent Americans. So now what are we going to do when Americans are killing innocent Americans? You remember how pissed off we were when it happened? We were mad at everybody, Brown, that didn't come from here. Keira Havens: kisses. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Everybody was holding hands people in New York were all smiling and stuff. You remember Yeah Keira Havens: I was there, yeah. And people were mad at brown folks in the US too as an excuse to really come down on folks that are Muslim and even folks that look like Muslims. Like that hate was not, that anger was directed everywhere. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): So now where's that same anger when we're sitting here watching Americans getting killed? Keira Havens: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): We would be pissed if it was a completely other country doing this. Cefore X. Plosives: Yeah, and now all these guys have to backtrack on everything that they put their all their eggs they put in the same basket for this guy and the administration and their their vision that they they stand upon. They don't want to climb back and retract from that hill. Keira Havens: Yeah, but I mean, let's remember, right? DHS didn't exist 20 years ago. I am older than DHS. I lived before it. It was fine. We don't have to have it there, right? All of this anger and this rage. ⁓ I'm so sorry. What was that? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I'm older than a lot of things. Cefore X. Plosives: Thanks. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I just said I'm older than a lot of things. I'm teasing. Keira Havens: Yeah, but there's this assumption that the way things are is the way they have to be and they don't. They can change. And so one of the things that we've been trying to do is harness the rage and the anger and turn it into something focused, right? Because otherwise you just get burned out on outrage. ⁓ Being able to find those avenues, those approaches to actual change is a big piece of the puzzle. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I just think of growing up and I remember everyone telling me how, don't worry about it. You can't change the government. Nothing can change. Nothing can change. And you know, this is going to sound silly. The one thing that made me realize that nothing is set in stone is the fact that Hawaii is constantly growing as we speak. Keira Havens: I grew up in Hawaii. Did you know that? Yeah. So it's the volcano. Madame Pele spoke to you and said, more lands coming every day. Okay. Yep. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): I didn't. That's cool. What was that like? Hahaha Cefore X. Plosives: it Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's it. mean, it's not, and then, you know, like you go to science class and then, ⁓ we know all the animals. And then you go and watch National Geographic and they discover like five new animals almost every day now. Keira Havens: Yeah, a lot of what we're told about the world, I was a scientist in a past life. Like I said, politics has not always been my thing. And the more you, the closer you get to the edge of that knowledge, the more you realize that all the categories and all of the, the, the knowns are, ⁓ how to describe it. Yeah, this is what we know up till now, right? As we build more knowledge, as we understand better, our understanding changes and we do better. Right? And so. Cefore X. Plosives: Thanks. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): This is what we know up till now. Keira Havens: There is no excuse for staying static. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Right. And you guys that think that that Cefore X. Plosives: think there's a delay on my side, actually. I think there's a big delay on my side. It's alright, go ahead. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What'd say? Yeah. ⁓ I don't even remember what we were talking about. Keira Havens: You're starting to talk to folks that think everything's set in stone. I don't know what you're going to say, but. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Anyway. ⁓ yeah. We're talking to people who think everything is set in stone. So then when a younger group of people that want to take over politics, they get this, they get this, ⁓ The new politicians get this bad stain on them, we'll say, because of all the previous politicians. And when we have this younger crop of folks that are, they look at money a different way. They look at responsibility to society in a different way. So all you old folks that don't like change and that are afraid to change, like it's gonna happen. Keira Havens: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And you can't fight change and point at politicians and say, they're corrupt, they're corrupt. You can't do that. It's time to break all of those chains that are holding you back and pay attention to this younger generation that's saying enough is enough. We need to do things better. Keira Havens: Yeah, let's be let's be real honest too. Like, how are things going right now? The old the old guard has got us here. It's it is time to let that go. But we hear over and over again from the courage candidates that they are stonewalled by Democratic parties. They are rejected in favor of incumbents or the party favorite that has been kind of handpicked based on their network. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: You know, they get frozen out of media, they get ⁓ ignored, and it is truly a shame that folks are not willing to actually operate in small d democracy, right? Where the actual choice is left to the people and the people are able to choose the representative that they feel best fits them. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, and it's not supposed to be, especially the house. The house is not supposed to be all lawyers because they're going to look out for all the other lawyers. We need teachers, we need scientists, and we're going to get right back to that young lady, Miss dropping that in there, I'm a scientist. We need scientists in there. We need people that used to work at the carnival. We need people represented. And then when you, if you think Keira Havens: Ha ha ha. Mm-hmm. Sure. I've done, I've done a lot of things. Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): that the House of Representatives is supposed to be all of these high ranking, whatever the hell, and all these educated people and all that, that's just not the case. I'll give that to you for the Senate, but the House, we need people who are connected to you to be sharing your message. And it is incredibly helpful if they come from, or if they live in the area in which you live. Keira Havens: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Definitely. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): How wild is it that we have people in the House of Representatives that are representing an area and they live in a completely different state? Keira Havens: Yeah, I was just talking to a group out in Fayetteville ⁓ and they they're representative his browser and apparently he just lives elsewhere and conducts all of his business from elsewhere and that that is that and still he has been in office for I mean an ungodly number of years a couple decades at least you know and there's the inertia the the something you talked a little bit about sort of the despair that nothing can change right that inertia is ⁓ it disincentivizes a lot of people from engaging in politics whatsoever. I truly hope, and we tell this to all the candidates too, I truly hope that the folks that have been sitting it out and sitting on the sidelines. take it up and vote and actually participate. know, America gets like 30 % of its population to vote on any given election day and that is not enough. Not enough. If you think politics is not for you, if you think they have been ignoring your voice, if you think nothing can change, I just really urge you to reconsider that opinion ⁓ because that's not true. It takes the participation to get the change. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yep. And if you're afraid to vote Democrat, some of these young independents and Democratic people that are running under the Democrat thing, umbrella, think of this. Republicans are exporting jobs every way they can, whether it's going to AI, Costa Rica, China, they're exporting all of these jobs and they're telling you to pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Keira Havens: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): while they have their hand in the government's pocket. Keira Havens: They get paid for a lot of work they don't do. I'll just say that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yes, ma'am. Why do you think why do you think ⁓ Elon Musk didn't touch the ⁓ the Defense Department when he was doing his doge thing? Keira Havens: That's where all the money's going to tech folks now. That's where it all comes from. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Everyone says USAID didn't do anything. No, but we know for a fact that the Department of Defense did a whole bunch of things. They haven't passed one, what is it? They haven't passed one audit. Keira Havens: An audit, yeah. I think they've had six now. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and everyone is talking about like feeding kids or they're fighting against feeding kids and actually having good schools and stuff. Isn't that crazy? Keira Havens: It is wild and I'll say I'm a veteran and like I came from that world and it is ⁓ the the fraud, and abuse component of it. I mean, there is so much power locked in to defend spending and there's so much ⁓ there is so much political weight. And it's a big avenue of how a lot of communities receive funding or jobs or what have you, right? But what that means is that there is very often not a sober assessment of what is actually necessary to do the fight, right? To get the fight done. ⁓ And you end up playing politics with the defense budget. You end up with political considerations rather than what is best for the fighting force. And that's just been a reality for a very long time that there is not just an a military industrial complex, which is very real and very, very active, right, but a military political complex that is growing increasingly stronger year over year. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And that's code word for they're all friends. Everyone in Congress is all friends. They all go to the same schools. They all go to the same, they all blow the same bubba. ⁓ Keira Havens: It's a big club Big club and you're not in it. That's too much. I don't want to think about that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Let's change. ⁓ let's talk about education. I love scientists. I love smart people. ⁓ Did you always want to be a scientist like when you grew up? Keira Havens: Sure. Okay. Excellent. ⁓ yeah, I was a big nerd from when I was a little kid. I loved it, Grew up in Hawaii, so actually I wanted to be a marine biologist at the start. What was that? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Where'd you grow up? ⁓ yeah, you said that, Hawaii. Yeah. How, how old were you when you came back to the mainland? Keira Havens: When I went to college, so I went to school in Chicago and it was a big shift. ⁓ Yeah, Chicago. Chicago's great. I love it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. Yeah, same. We're both from Chicago. Yeah. What do you... Cubs. He's... He's Sox Keira Havens: Very nice. Are you Sox or Cubs? Cefore X. Plosives: Sucks. SUCKS. Keira Havens: Well, that we can't tackle anymore. got to end the conversation here. Southside all the way for me. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Cefore X. Plosives: There you go, Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay, thank you for coming on. can't, Mike could take over from here. I gotta go. I gotta go wash my eyes out. Cefore X. Plosives: Yeah. ⁓ Keira Havens: You Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Southside. So now I know that you cheated on your homework. Cefore X. Plosives: Damn it. Keira Havens: No, I was the kid helping people on their homework. That's too much of a nerd to do any cheating. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You What school did you go to? Keira Havens: Illinois Institute of Technology on the south side of Chicago. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay, nice, nice. ⁓ Did you ever go to the Museum of Science and Industry? Keira Havens: ⁓ man, I think like once while I was there. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, that place is awesome. That place is also are you are you in Chicago now or where are you now? Cefore X. Plosives: Yes, it is. Keira Havens: Yeah. No, actually, I'm in Colorado. Jason Crow's district, actually. He's my rep. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay. shout out Jason Crow. Hopefully, maybe. ⁓ Kick rocks, Mr. Crowe. ⁓ Cefore X. Plosives: Bye. Keira Havens: Well, I'm a little disappointed in his activities. He hasn't been taking a stand. Cefore X. Plosives: Do you have a courage candidate in that area? Keira Havens: We don't yet. We do have a couple of courage candidates in Colorado. ⁓ One of them is running against Diana DeGette, who has been again in Congress for close to 30 years. ⁓ One of them is, I believe, stepping up to run in the Senate race. And actually, you can find a whole list of all of our candidates ⁓ on just citizensimpeachment.com slash courage candidates. ⁓ And that is, like I said, that is growing. that is just growing exponentially. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I don't doubt that because people are tired of the status quo. People are tired of struggling. People are tired. So when we get to meet with people like you and tap into your efforts and then the little team that you're building and all of these folks have this, not necessarily the same exact vision, but they have the same vision for making things better for everyone. It's just so refreshing to see someone who's running for office that is not. Keira Havens: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you know, cut out of a magazine and they have all the all the receipts for the high-priced clothing that they wear and all this stuff. I just love seeing normal people wanting to represent other normal people. Keira Havens: Yeah. Cefore X. Plosives: Yeah. Keira Havens: It is kind ⁓ of a miracle, right? So we actually, let me just run through the folks that are on, courage candidates from Colorado since we're chit chatting about them. So you can kind of see how many folks are there and from how many different types of places, right? If that's okay. Yeah, so Melat Kiros, who is a Justice Democrat candidate as well. ⁓ She is, ⁓ you know, she. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: has been a barista and she works with printers and she understands how healthcare needs to be affordable. And she's the one that's running against Diana DeGette. John Padora out in Colorado for he's running against Lauren Bobert now, right? And he's a carpenter. And so he, ⁓ these folks live normal lives. Like they have normal life experience. Zuri Horowitz is running in Colorado five. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Keira Havens: ⁓ She is a, she works with granting agencies. She has worked with behavioral health and transportation. And there's, there's a huge breadth of experience here that is missing, as you say, right? Because we have a house of representatives full of lawyers. So it's, it's really wonderful to be able to pull the stories of actual people and bring them front and center and say it could be done differently, you know? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): you Yeah. I'm gonna jump back to your science. Cause I fixate on smart people stuff. What kind of scientist did you become? Keira Havens: Sure, sure. All good. ⁓ I like to work with, I like to work inside the cell. So DNA, proteins, it's called molecular biochemistry, just looking at how the information and the physical world interact with each other. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Can you tell in that DNA strand and the cells and stuff, can you tell who's black and white and brown and yellow and red? Keira Havens: This is a great question. So ⁓ we talk about the human species and we talk about different kinds of humans, right? Brown, black, yellow, all of that. There are ⁓ certain similarities within groups, right? Some groups will share certain genetic types, this is true. But what's crucial to know is that if you compare any individual within one of those groups, to any individual in any other group, there's more variation in that single group than there is in the whole. We are all the same species and we are all humans. And it is depressing that we have to make that clarification because race science is absolutely on the rise and people are trying to use biology to justify bigotry in a really big way. We're seeing this come out more and more in comments around IQ. IQ is... IQ is a, ⁓ man, it's a lazy way to categorize people. Let me say it that way, right? It is entirely situational dependent. It is entirely context dependent and it is not immutable, but people use it that way. They use it as like, here is your station in life. You can't ever get above this. And that gets tied in a very real way to policies that are put forth by this growing fascist movement, right? There is an idea that... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: that everybody, that there is a hierarchy and that the hierarchy is natural and you can't ever move from your place in that hierarchy. And this is where a lot of ⁓ these really racist immigration raids are coming from, right? The concept that if only we removed the people that ⁓ are not good, that are bad on this hierarchy, the people on the lower end, if we just got rid of them, society would get better. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: That's the concept because we're messing with the natural order by including these people in our society. And this is a lie. There is no hierarchy. Nature laughs at categories. It does not ascribe ⁓ to the social order that we put in place. So when we talk about the information contained in genes, it is super important, super important that we remember that that is like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: the beginning of the story, not the end. The person is much, much more than just that collection of genes. gonna, that was my little rant on that subject. It's one that's near and dear to my heart. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): No, I love it because you're breaking things down. You can have a bunch of gorillas out in the street talking, ⁓ white people are better, black people are better, whatever, whatever, whatever. But when you have a proper scientist who has used technology to actually study the makeup of the human body and that person tells you, ain't no difference. Now. I can run out into the street to tell all these monkeys to shut the hell up. These pauses are crazy. Cefore X. Plosives: Yeah, they are. Keira Havens: Yeah, I don't know what's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): there. I don't know if it's like Riverside itself or what but anyway. Keira Havens: Yeah, I'm not sure. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): This one is gonna make me edit so much more, but that's fine. That's fine. ⁓ Keira Havens: Sorry about that folks. I don't know what's going on here. Everything looks fine on my side. Just keep stopping. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, no, and I think that's the good part of doing it the way that Riverside does it is if the internet does get choppy, it's actually recording you at full resolution and it's sending that one out. So even if it gets grainy, it technically shouldn't. Anyway. ⁓ OK, so you're sitting there with your Keira Havens: Okay. Cefore X. Plosives: Thanks Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You know, your science coat on and you got your beakers and you got your little Bunsen burner and your magnifying glass and then your mag whatever that is. ⁓ Not telescope, microscope. ⁓ Yeah. And then one day you're like, I need to fix the United States. Like walk me through that conversation. Cefore X. Plosives: Thank Keira Havens: Microscope, microscope. Sure, So I haven't been at the bench in a really long time. I'll just say that upfront. They discovered that I could talk to humans. And so they sent me out to do science communication, to go tell people about science and talk them through the tech and all of that sort of stuff. And I did that for about six or seven years. ⁓ And ⁓ along the way, that little rant that you heard about race science, that's something that I got interested in just a couple of years ago. ⁓ became really apparent to me with the rise of these, man, I don't know what to call them other than fascist elements, right? That were using biology to justify their fascism. And that made me mad, man. Like I love science. I'm like, I'm a huge nerd. There's no way to overstate how much of a nerd I am and that they were using my specialty, my field to justify this bullshit. No, we're not doing that. So I started doing research into. into the networks of people that were mainstreaming this race science stuff. And what you find out is that all of these folks are talking to each other and a lot of them are involved in the Trump administration in one way or another. And a lot of them are involved in the tech bro world making, you know, that technology more fascist than it needs to be. So it was, it was, that was kind of the entry point for paying attention to this stuff in a new way. ⁓ and then, man, once you get to, Once you get to the genocide in Palestine, right, that was a combination of all this race science hierarchy stuff. was a combination of my experience in the military just seeing what was coming and a combination of just watching the silence that accompanied the United States fully funding this horrific set of human rights abuses. ⁓ And I think at that point it was pretty much over for me. was in... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: I was in politics one way or another after that, you know? ⁓ Just the way the, once again, talking about responsive government, the way the Democrats simply absolutely refused to listen to anything that their base had to say and instead worked to crush human rights protests by students and others. Truly disheartening, truly, truly radicalizing. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that is heartbreaking because you see the hypocrisy alone. You know, we're worried about life when it has something to do with the woman's choice, but then we just straight up give up on people. And we're seeing the stuff in Palestine, with all due respect, that's not new. Keira Havens: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's not new. I grew up in the streets. They've been fucking black and brown people up. They've been doing this. I've had a front row seat to cops just... I've had a front row seat. Keira Havens: This is true. Well, Chicago has had torture chambers, right? Their cops brought people back to do black site stuff, so, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. And then if you know anything about Northern Illinois, there's a town called Rockford there too. Rockford is Chicago's little brother that wants to outdo things. So if Chicago brings a gun, Rockford brings two guns. So growing up between Rockford and Chicago, I had a front row seat to the stuff. And then when you see it playing out, Keira Havens: you Yeah. Okay. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): on the news and it looks very similar to what they're doing other places and you start to point out the similarities like that. They're talking about people in Gaza the same way they talk about us. You just got done saying that I poisoned the blood of your country and all this stuff. You're going to start bombing us now and then. Keira Havens: Exactly. Yep. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): They sick ice on us. Keira Havens: Well, and I mean, let's just be real clear, right? These folks are all in conversation with each other. The IDF trains ICE. The IDF trains the NYPD. Folks fly over there to get training. There is a cop compound, I believe, believe it's in Atlanta, called Little Gaza. All of this stuff plays into each other because it's all the same tactics trying to enforce this hierarchy, which again is false. There is no hierarchy. The only hierarchy is what we as society impose us. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): ⁓ my- Yeah, yeah, like you hear people say, they put their pants on one leg at a time. And then for some reason, when folks go outside, they forget that that's there. And then there's like this, like you said, like this self-imposed hierarchy. Keira Havens: Yeah. And it's all the same tools that get used also. ⁓ When we went into Iraq in 2003, right, there were op-eds in the New York Times that effectively said Iraq is too stupid to govern itself. Low IQ, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's Keira Havens: When the genocide in Palestine started, they issued basically that same press release. It was another paper and they said the IQ of Palestinians is 75. They can't govern themselves because the goal is to take away agency from the folks at the bottom, to keep them in the bottom so that hierarchy remains in place. ⁓ ⁓ Once you start looking at that, ⁓ you look at supremacy in any capacity and you start to get to know how hierarchy reinforces its power, you see it everywhere. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah. And I'm hesitating because you're like, you're giving information that's just... Keira Havens: ⁓ I'm sorry. Yeah, I know it's a lot. It's Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): But it needs to be heard because we continue, when we turn on the news or we're watching our YouTube videos or whatever it is, we keep hearing about this Israeli or the government of Israel and how they have their hands in everything. And if you think about it, Keira Havens: You mean like influencing Congress and such? Okay. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, and now influencing police and how policing is done. And then taking a look and incorporating that with all the knowledge that I have from having the front row seat to this violence and actually surviving. and you start to put the pieces together and you get upset, I get upset because when you have put so much time and effort into... pulling yourself up by the bootstraps and working really hard and doing all the things that everyone ever told you to do. Keira Havens: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And then you realize that and you hear the old folks saying game is fixed, the game is fixed. And you're like, you know, ⁓ just old. And then when you get to this point and you're like, ⁓ my God, not only are they siccing the cops on us, ice us doing all this stuff, but they're also withdrawing funding to education. And they're also, ⁓ putting out this propaganda against who you are as a person. And then you go to broke white folks and you're telling them this is what's happening and they're like, nah, we're good, USA all the way. And then you expect the black and brown communities to tap into that bullshit. Keira Havens: Yeah. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): God, I'm so excited that you and your organization exist. Shout out to literally everyone that you said on that list. Keira Havens: ⁓ that's just three people. There are 80 of them in there. Yeah. Take a look at them. Find your candidate. mean, the best thing people can do right now is make Congress afraid for their jobs. We just counted it out. have about, I think we have 278 days till the midterms. ⁓ there you go, Bernard Taylor. Are you in Florida? Okay, Bernard is also one of our current candidates. Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): That's just three people, right. ⁓ yeah, Bernard Taylor. Cefore X. Plosives: Yeah, he's in my district, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Cefore X. Plosives: Yeah, I got rest. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Well, Bernard Taylor's the truth. Cefore X. Plosives: Russ Cleveland, we got a lot of them around. We brought a lot on the show. Yep. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yep, Russell Cleveland. Keira Havens: So is he. That's fantastic, man. So all of these folks that you've mentioned, they're all courage candidates, right? They all came to us and said, we are in it for the fight. And we said, awesome, join us. We're going to make this thing a movement. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): What is that like? What's the relationship building between your organization and maybe a candidate that's interested in being a part of the courage candidates? Keira Havens: Yeah, so we have a real low bar. If you are pro impeachment and you are pro democracy, anti-corruption, anti-authoritarian and anti-oligarch, congratulations, you're in. The candidates just expanded their platform to include abolishing ICE. So you're to have to clear that bar as well. But that's it. That is correct. That not an asshole. Yeah. And that's the only rule. ⁓ And we... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And all you have to do is not be an asshole. Keira Havens: We are just, we are floored by the number of stories that we hear where folks espousing ⁓ these pro-democracy platforms are being shut out by the parties that they're supposed to be participating in, who you think would be stoked to adopt these. But on the other hand, what we're also hearing is that the second they start talking about this, the second they start saying, yes, let's go to impeachment, yes, let's abolish ICE, so do their... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Both, both parties. Yeah. Keira Havens: So their ⁓ opponents in the primary race, because again, everybody that's in Congress right now is a coward. Right? Yeah. Yeah. We see the language coming out from what we're doing out into the mainstream in an incredible fashion. When we started the courage candidates, all of a sudden the word courage was everywhere. When we started talking about ISIS, a paramilitary force that was deploying to cities, like Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): and they're cheating off of papers, there are no scientists at all. Keira Havens: AOC said it the next day. Somehow the language is getting out there and it is changing the conversation. And of course, impeachment, right? We're now at the point where the representatives are carrying it for themselves. Good for them on that. We're not going to stop until it's done. But there has been, there are obviously eyes on this and they're obviously taking notes from it, but the action hasn't quite followed through. in the same way. So that's why we have to keep the pressure up. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, it's gonna be a good day when we get fresh blood in there. Nobody should be in Congress for 50 years. Rules have changed so much and society itself has changed so much. So much. Keira Havens: No. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): How long have you been interested in politics? Keira Havens: I I helped out with campaigns. Like, I would call for campaigns and I would write letters and stuff like that. But I haven't really organized before, not the way I'm doing now. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah, it's impressive to me. And now that I know that you're like a scientist and a veteran and all that stuff, like this is smart people shit. So now it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Keira Havens: Well, thank you. you Yeah, well, I would say it's determined people shit, honestly, because I mean, the the specifics of it are not really that difficult. You just have to be willing to say the thing that you mean and then stick to it and refuse to to get off track. ⁓ It's the refusing to get off track piece that has been the most difficult because Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Keira Havens: Usually what will happen when we bring a concern to Congress is that they'll say, ⁓ well, it's not possible because X, Y, and Z. Or, ⁓ we're doing this other thing over here, so we can't do that, right? Or, you know, we'll just have to wait on this one because we don't have the votes. And so there's, there are a lot of off ramps for people. And a lot of our job is just convincing, you know, your average citizen that one, they have agency. And like you said, at the start, these folks work for them, right? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: And then two, it's teaching them how to listen past all of the words to get to the action, to get to, this is what I will do. You know, ⁓ one of our tools for people that meet their reps is we tell them, ask for a date. Ask for a date that you can check back in when the staffer has brought this comment to the rep or has shared the legislation with them or whatever it is you're asking for. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Keira Havens: Ask for a date you can check back in and watch how long it takes them to give one to you because they do not want to do that. They don't want homework. They don't want accountability. It's not that hard, but they are very interested in avoiding it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Yeah, and imagine normal people, imagine going to work, whatever it is that you do. Let's say you're a file clerk and you walk into the office and people are like, hey, can you file this for me? And you just sit it there and wait two years. Keira Havens: Ha Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): And you don't do it. You're not filing. Guess what's going to happen. Keira Havens: And then, and then you go to your boss and you're like, ⁓ well, I was gonna file it, but you know, we are gonna order new filing cabinets and then I had to refile it again. And so I didn't do it, right? But it was all for smart people reasons. Like imagine justifying it like that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense why people keep voting for people that refuse to do the job that they're applying for. Keira Havens: I mean, a lot of it is that they don't know they're refusing because I mean, at least on the Democrat side of the aisle, a lot of their rhetoric is about, we've been stopped, we've been blocked, we can't do anything because the bad guys are here and we're stuck, right? They're the most powerful people in the world. If they want to do something, they will find a way to do it. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. especially these days. There's no more excuses for, they did it. Trump is single-handedly ruining this country. So you can't tell me that nothing is possible. He became a billionaire after becoming the president. Keira Havens: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. This is gross. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Dreams can come true, I guess. Keira Havens: ⁓ I mean, the corruption piece of it, that's something that we have not written an article of impeachment about corruption yet. We have tyranny, we have treason, and we have ⁓ obstruction of justice for the Epstein files. The corruption article, it's remarkable to me that nobody has written this yet because there are so many, there are endless examples of this man enriching himself at the expense of, or as a result of his position, right? nine months ago. ⁓ Unbelievable. I can hear you guys again, you're coming back. All right, nine months ago, there was, nine months ago, he got a plane, right, from Qatar. And that plane is almost here to be delivered. And nobody has raised this question, not once. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Hi. Yeah. And what is it like? I've been hearing this thing about he he stole the oil from Venezuela and there's like some huge number that starts with a five. That that amount of money is put away in some bank account that only he has access to. That's not even in the United States is like in the. Cefore X. Plosives: Qatar Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Somewhere in the middle of nowhere. There's Qatar, is it? Of course, obviously. You're killing me, Smalls. Cefore X. Plosives: Yeah Keira Havens: I mean, think Rubio just said that people could ask them for the money and they would distribute it. And that was the whole plan. mean, you know, sure. I guess why not? I mean, I really, I really think it is. It is a testament to the fact that action trumps literally everything. If you are willing to act right now, as Trump, as Trump and his administration are the obvious that Congress won't do anything about it. at this point in time. And so they can just do whatever they want. And that's the whole game, right? Getting Congress to act as a co-equal branch of government because they are not doing it right now. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Let's jump into your military career. ⁓ What branch were you in? Air Force. All right. All right. I was in the Army. Yeah. Thank you for yours. Even though it was in the Air Force, you know. Keira Havens: shirt. Air Force. Mm-hmm. Yep. Okay, thank you for your service. Mm-hmm. I know, I know. I got nothing to say about that. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Where did you serve? Where did you do basic and where were you stationed? Keira Havens: I was in Lackland for basic and I was stationed up in Wyoming. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Okay, Wyoming. Isn't that where Qatar has a new new training facility? Keira Havens: I believe that was Montana that they were putting it in. can't remember. But yeah, somewhere out in the West they have a... Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Is it Montana? We're gonna have to call Russell and be like, son. ⁓ yeah, that whole thing. What made you join the military? Keira Havens: you know, I, I'm the oldest of four kids there's no other way for me go to college. So that's what I did. ⁓ and I was real, real upfront about it, right? Like I will, I will trade my time for the, for the college degree. And that's what I did the four years through ROTC. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Sure. Yeah, yeah, same here. ⁓ I didn't want to go to community, well, not the community. I ended up going to community college for my first degree, ⁓ yeah, I just, needed a way out. I needed, yeah. Keira Havens: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a way out for a ton of people, right? Like that's, that's one of the things that makes veteran org so powerful right now is that we, we all did, you know, make that very conscious decision to go and serve. And it's, boy. Yeah, it's a good question, right? To serve the, I mean, the, the oath I swore was to support and defend the constitution against, against all enemies, foreign and domestic. So, yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): To serve what though? To serve what? Yes ma'am. That's what I'm saying. And that just don't go away just like that. Keira Havens: It does not. And I really hope that there is, you know, the veteran community, I think struggles a little bit to find, ⁓ to find like a cohesive organizing structure. And I really hope that all of these groups that are kind of circling around this topic now are able to are able to come together and say, like, we serve the country once, and this is how we're serving it now. We must, we must replace, remove, impeach this administration. It's, I mean, I feel comfortable saying there's a domestic enemy of the Constitution in the White House. And I, I really hope more people do. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): 100%. Yeah, he's already threatened it. He's already threatened it. But beyond all the actions that he's done, he's already joked around about pausing it or whatever it was that in his little. Yeah, now we good, dude, we good. We're talking about veterans and yeah, it's. Keira Havens: doesn't know if he has to uphold it. ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): for me being a veteran. It drives me nuts that the Stephen Millers, that the Donald Trumps, that all these folks that were too afraid to put them to like to actually strap them on. Keira Havens: Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): are the ones that are running the government and now they're talking with such big powerful words understanding that this country taught me how to grab you by your throat. Keira Havens: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): It's bananas that normal people are looking at cowards and looking at them and then saying that veterans aren't at that level. Keira Havens: Yeah, this is actually part of why we built out an article of impeachment for treason, right? Because we had the forcible federalization of the National Guard. We had the deployment of the National Guard into Portland and Illinois over the objections of the people the Constitution vests with safety and security of those states, right? And now we have the paramilitary force. That is, the same thing is happening. It is an agent of the federal government and they are being deployed into cities. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): She's dropping mad knowledge every time she hiccups us because she's dropping bad, like, dope knowledge. Keira Havens: Becoming a pro at this shit. ⁓ ⁓ my god. Let me know when y'all are back. Cefore X. Plosives: Stephen Miller is like, damn it, we gotta cut the feed. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): You Stephen Miller, you can hear me, fuck you, punk. Keira Havens: This is. Am I back yet? Cefore X. Plosives: This sucks. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I don't know if this is riverside. Keira Havens: There must be somebody playing like a game nearby or something like that because... Cefore X. Plosives: cluster dropped out. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Well, when she goes back, I'm gonna be right back, okay? Cefore X. Plosives: because I blew my nose on the record. Keira Havens: I apologize, I have no idea what is happening here. Cefore X. Plosives: Hello. So be right back. What happened? Keira Havens: Hey. Cefore X. Plosives: She's frozen again. She's posing though. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): She got that good Cefore X. Plosives: Amen. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, I don't know if this is again. I don't know if this is Riverside. If this is Riverside, this Riverside. is trash. ⁓ Keira Havens: I'm so sorry y'all, I don't- Cefore X. Plosives: Yes. Keira Havens: If we have to redo this some other day, I mean, can do that, but man, this is super frustrating. Cause it's solid bars for me across the top. don't know what is causing it. Cefore X. Plosives: Yeah. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Let's go for it. ⁓ Before hiccups again. ⁓ Do you want to jump back on to what you were saying? Okay, go for it. Keira Havens: Okay. Sure, can, so part of the reason that we did, ⁓ well, the reason that we did a treason article is because Trump's administration is attempting to revolutionize the United States government by force. He uses force to get what he wants. ⁓ He did it with the National Guard, forcibly deploying the National Guard. ⁓ He's doing it now with the paramilitary forces through DHS. And he's even talked about bringing up actual military folks currently serving MPs, right, to step in. ⁓ And there is, the constitution defines treason. It's the only crime that is defined by the constitution. And it's defined as levying war against the United States. And that's what's happening. So the treason argument is the one that we are currently focusing the most on every Wednesday at eight 30 Eastern. have a treason teach-in. ⁓ the, our constitutional scholar talks about how and why you can, you can bring treason. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Literally. Keira Havens: into mainstream discussions about what is occurring in this country because all of these piecemeal... ⁓ boy. This is killing me. Should I? Maybe I should switch to my phone, you guys. I'm gonna switch to my phone, maybe? Cefore X. Plosives: Damn it man. That sucks. Really bad. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. But I would think it was the Riverside, but it was happening on Google Meet too. Just because you got bars don't mean that. Huh? Cefore X. Plosives: see there's still a delay on my side. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Cefore X. Plosives: frustrating. We're gonna have to have her back on without it one day. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. or have fucking... I just, don't know. I don't know about where she is if they have fucking proper internet. I don't know. Like doing it. Wi-Fi is fucking cool, but not really when you're doing a fucking recording like this. It's just not. fucking frustrating. Cefore X. Plosives: She's probably not gonna hop back on at that point. Thank He was dropping gems. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah, she was. Cefore X. Plosives: I think there's the bottle. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): but now it seems to have been steady. Cefore X. Plosives: I think there's about a three second, four second lag. least from me to you. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. Cefore X. Plosives: And it wasn't like that on Google Meet. So I don't know what the difference is on Riverside. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Not to mention I got so much fucking work to do. Cefore X. Plosives: Let me see if there's a riverside bug. Keira Havens: Hey folks, I'm on my phone now, is this any better? Cefore X. Plosives: it could be caused by browser limitations. Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Here she goes. Keira Havens: Hey folks, I'm on my phone now. Is this any better? Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Yeah. ⁓ Keira Havens: not look like it. I am so sorry guys. I think we might have to try to finish it out on another Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): Anytime you're doing, anytime you're doing video work like this, you just need to be, you just need to be hard lined into the shit because you're doing and the way that the way that Riverside works is if you could be recording, but the video is recording on your device. So I don't know what you're looking at on your phone, but there should be like a little percentage. Keira Havens: Unbelievable. Okay. Cefore X. Plosives: she just messaged. Is there a message? ⁓ the ⁓ Carlos Gomez (Coconut Justice): When you are... Yeah. When you're looking at your phone, is there like a little percentage sign that's showing like how percentage of it being uploaded? Okay, well, let's wrap this one up and then, yeah, maybe we'll, I don't fucking know. I don't fucking know. all right. I'm going to stop recording. And then I'll take a look at this. I'll take a look at this later. Cefore X. Plosives: Yeah. hit stop and then yeah hit