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Breaking Free: Challenging Religious Narratives · Tracking Wisdom

• 0:00
  Views, interpretations and opinions expressed are not advice nor official positions presented on behalf of any organization or institution.
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  They are for informational and entertainment purposes only.
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  In this episode, Peter presents his belief system and discusses his Buddhist practice and understanding in comparison to Ryan's beliefs.
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  Now join Ryan and Peter for the Tracking Wisdom podcast.
• 0:32
  So I have to say in terms of my personal beliefs, I agree with you.
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  I don't think salvation is an issue.
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  I don't think heaven and hell salvation, any of those things are issues.
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  I think they're more dodges ways for organized religions to kick the can down the road and say, well, we're not going to give it to you right now because you have to stay tuned.
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  And so in context of previous discussions, I can kind of see that as being a manipulation of the self interested church.
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  The self interested, I guess I would want to say organization.
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  Right.
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  Because church is emotionally charged.
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  Right.
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  But I think if we say this is the way this organization operates, it's much clearer what we're talking about and hopefully kind of takes away the animosity of attacking a church, you know, attacking a faith.
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  Yes, right.
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  Okay.
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  We're not, we're not questioning any faiths.
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  We're saying there are organizations that are built around faiths or that have co opted faiths.
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  And that's what we're talking, that's what we're here to discuss in large part because those are the things we believe that nones are alienated by these organizations which are not self consistent but are self interested and are self
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  preserving.
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  Yes.
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  Okay.
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  So the idea of salvation as being one of the accretions that we've talked about that obscures the truth.
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  That's the basis we're postulating.
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  All religions are based on an essential truth, reality.
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  All religions are based on reality, are intended to be able to guide us to reality, absolute reality.
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  But they've all been compromised by accretion of teachings on top of the original prophet or whatever teacher.
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  They're built around to the extent where they obscure or even undermine and contradict the original teaching.
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  The original solution was because that's what all faiths are.
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  All faiths are solutions to problems of being human.
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  Like being human is a problem.
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  So I mean, I think we're getting at kind of what we want to talk about.
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  So I'm struck by kind of the tone of what you described.
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  It makes sense to me.
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  The language has a new age flavor to it, which makes it less, to me, less, a little bit less accessible.
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  But I mean that's really because my background is in Christianity and Buddhism, which are much more traditional.
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  I don't necessarily have a new age background, but I know that some of the things that I said are similar to new age thinking.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  So I.
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  So what's interesting to me is that I wouldn't have articulated a belief structure like that because I kind of haven't thought about it ground up basically from a creation perspective.
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  Right.
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  So you presented a creation perspective, which I thought was really interesting.
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  I think it makes sense to me.
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  What you said I really need to digest.
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  So obviously, you know, there's some key things that I agree with, like the.
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  The idea of salvation or heaven, hell.
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  I think I can't do as good a job of outlining my beliefs from A to B to C because I don't have a starting.
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  Well, I don't have the same kind of starting point.
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  I do have a starting point.
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  I just don't have a creation starting point.
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  That was important to me.
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  That was my seek, why are we here?
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  And where did creation come from?
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  Because science has failed on both those fronts in my opinion, up to now.
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  And when I came across that kind of idea, it was the first time that something was posited to me as a possibility that made sense.
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  Like I could see how that could be real.
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  So let me walk through my framework a little bit and I guess in terms of, well, we'll start with creation and exist.
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  Because what I've read of Buddhist teaching is, okay, one of the central tenets of Buddhist philosophy or Buddhism is cause and effect.
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  Causality.
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  All things are effects of causes.
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  There's always a cause before and they postulate no primary cause, which is kind of the same thing in a way.
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  It's like everything has a cause.
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  Well, what caused that?
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  Well, there was a cause for that and those cause, you know.
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  Well, but what was the first cause?
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  And they're kind of like, well, there doesn't have to be an original cause.
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  It was always just causes have always existed.
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  And so there's a certain similarity, I think in.
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  I like, it's almost just a semantic difference to say existence always existed as opposed to the cause of an existing thing always ex.
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  Like there's always another cause which is really just to say something always exists.
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  There's no such thing as non, non existence.
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  Well, and that is all based on time.
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  Like right.
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  An under or an experience of time.
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  So okay, yes.
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  So as far, that's as much as I know about creation in a Buddhist sense.
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  To me though, the original question was not even why am I suffering?
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  Like it wasn't like, why, why am I suffering?
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  Tell me why.
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  It was just how do I stop suffering?
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  That's really, that's really, for me, the original question, how do I stop suffering?
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  And one of the great quotes attributed to Buddha is I only teach suffering and the end of suffering.
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  So people would ask him different things and he would disclaim and he would say, well, I know about that stuff, but I only teach suffering in the end suffering.
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  Like, I'm not going to discuss philosophical, I'm not going to discuss metaphysics with you.
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  And so in, in the Buddhist tradition, I won't give you the whole origin of him personally, but he was shielded, I'll give you a little bit of background.
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  He was, he was a prince, he was shielded from suffering.
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  And so he didn't but become aware of suffering until relatively late in his life as a youth when he inadvertently was able to observe people suffering because there's prophecies about what was going to happen.
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  So his father sequestered him and said he'll never, I want him to be a great ruler of the earth and not a great prophet, not a religious leader.
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  So those are the two opposing things.
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  And so for that reason he was sequestered.
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  And for that reason he was quite mature already before he became aware of old age, death, which is kind of hard to believe.
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  But anyway, that's, that's the tradition, right?
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  And he became, he was so appalled.
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  He said, I have to understand this and I won't rest until I can understand why things are so bad.
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  And so he went on a pilgrimage essentially and tried the available practices of, of the time.
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  So he was very spiritually well educated basically because he went out and he did everything.
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  And so he grew up in excess, he grew up in pleasure and sensuality.
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  And he ended in severe asceticism, aestheticism, where he, what do they call it, mortified the body or denied himself to the extent to, to the approach of death.
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  He, he very nearly died and was actually rescued by a young woman who came upon his emaciated body and force fed him, said, you know, there's a variety of things, basically some kind of rice pudding, sweetened rice that
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  was able, he was able to get into his mouth and swallow and restore his strength.
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  And then he, he basically had second thoughts about that pathway.
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  And so that's why he realized the middle way.
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  So the middle way is between the extremes of pleasure and self mortification.
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  And he became enlightened simply and air quotes simply by sitting meditation under a Bodhi tree.
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  Under a rubber tree, subsequently called the Bodhi tree because Bodhi means enlightenment and air quotes simply by sitting, understanding that although he, in that sitting session, he.
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  And I don't remember the time frame, but it's fairly short like it was, I don't think it was more than a couple of days, if that.
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  He said, I'm going to sit until, I'm not going to get up until I'm enlightened.
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  And then he was relatively quickly enlightened, understanding that he had gone through this entire lifetime before that of exploration and in the tradition, many millions of lifetimes before that.
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  So all the conditions were correct.
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  So the cause effect was established already.
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  The cause wasn't I'm going to sit in the tree now or under the tree now.
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  So then he became enlightened.
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  He experienced bliss and nirvana and said, oh, this is it, I'm done, I don't have to go any further.
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  And he wasn't going to get up.
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  And again, in the tradition and the stories, I believe a deity came to him and said, well, you really have to teach.
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  Like you're really just going to keep this yourself.
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  Because the story is that when he was enlightened, there was a thunderclap that reverberated through all the dimensions and all beings in every realm rejoiced because there was a new Buddha.
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  So it was a big deal.
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  So even, even the gods were saying, hey, wow, like we're not enlightened, but this guy on this, you know, on the, on this plane is enlightened.
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  So he was encouraged to not just embrace his nirvana and instead to teach.
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  And so then his, his first.
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  Oh, well, you know, I just realized I'm telling, I'm like telling this traditional story rather than telling my beliefs, but I'll get just one piece, one more piece to it.
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  His first sermon was to his companions who were the ascetics who taught him to deny himself.
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  And he exceeded them all like he brought himself the closest to death.
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  They, they did not get as close to death as he was.
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  They were just kind of in this constant state of denial.
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  But he or of self denial.
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  And so he, when he became enlightened, he said, I have to go and tell my friends.
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  So those are the first disciples.
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  And his first sermon was the Four Noble Truths.
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  He said, this is what I know.
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  I became enlightened.
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  This is what I know.
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  There is suffering.
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  To live is to suffer.
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  It's inherent to sentient beings to suffer.
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  You have to understand this, number one.
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  Number two, the truth of the cause of Suffering.
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  And the cause of suffering is attachment to desires of various types.
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  And this is often misunderstood as wanting is the cause of suffering.
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  No, wanting is not the cause of suffering.
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  It's the attachment to the wanting.
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  Saying, I cannot be happy unless I have the thing I want that's the cause of suffering.
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  But just wanting something.
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  I want all beings to be enlightened is not inherently suffering.
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  Right.
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  It's I'm going to be miserable until all beings are enlightened.
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  That's suffering.
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  Because you're.
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  Yeah, okay, so suffering, cause of suffering, cessation of suffering.
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  Very simple.
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  But it's that all beings do inherently suffer, but cessation of suffering is possible.
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  So that's the third Noble truth, cessation.
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  And then the fourth Noble Truth is the Eightfold path that he laid out, which is speech.
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  It's right speech, right action.
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  But you can just list eight things.
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  Speech, action, livelihood.
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  Oops, sorry.
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  Understanding, number one, understanding, two, thought, speech, action, livelihood, diligence, concentration, and mindfulness.
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  And so basically, it's the attachment that causes suffering.
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  And there are kind of eight things that you can work on to undo your attachment.
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  So this brings us kind of back to the beginning because.
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  Right.
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  Understanding.
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  The first item is really talking about what's.
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  How should we really perceive reality?
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  And that's.
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  I've alluded to ultimate reality and conventional reality.
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  That's my framework.
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  And that's something.
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  I do believe that we exist in this third dimension, which is our convention of reality, and exists, but is not our essential existence and not the absolute reality.
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  It's a relative reality caused by all the conditions that we've experienced for all time as human beings or biological beings.
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  So is the.
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  Is the existence always biological?
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  I think that's an interesting question, and I would.
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  So I haven't thought about that and I haven't read about it, but I can make a logical extension, which is, as I alluded to earlier, in Buddhist tradition, there are multiple realms of being.
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  So I would say, you know, analogous to other dimensions of.
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  Of existence, with one of the higher ones being the realm of deities.
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  But in that tradition, even the deities are subject to suffering.
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  They're just not subject to our conventional suffering.
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  They're not subject to physical suffering, but they're not free of suffering, because if they were, they'd be fully realized Buddhas.
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  And again, in the tradition, when the Buddha became enlightened, the deities were not enlightened.
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  So, which suggests to me that the answer to your question is no, it's not always biological.
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  Right.
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  But in terms of the way we conventionally experience things.
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  That's what I meant because again, there's the idea of reincarnation and there's the idea of sentient beings as being, you know, not just people.
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  So that's why I said biological.
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  So I guess, though, that, you know, you could reincarnate as a kind of angelic entity, like a deva or something like that.
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  And again, I'm not really well versed in traditional Eastern what entities and levels of existence.
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  But anyway, there are multiple.
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  They describe multiple levels existence.
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  So I do believe in the ultimate reality, as you described as a unified energy, like a single field of existence that is uniform and that we are all connected to in our current existence.
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  We are inherently connected to this and can never be severed from it.
• 16:04
  Right.
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  Although we are separated from it by this act of incarnation, you know, in your framework, by the act of initial creation that separated us into this level of existence.
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  So I'm completely aligned with that and that it's this existence, the conditions of this existence, which cause us to be ignorant of the ultimate reality, which sets up a whole framework for our own suffering.
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  So it's a whole.
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  Once.
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  Once we lack that understanding, then we start to suffer because we're no longer aware of our relationship to the ultimate foreign.
• 16:49
  Thank you for listening to the Tracking Wisdom podcast.
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  Join us next time as we continue the discussion.
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