Latest / The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated / Canadian Tariffs, Hasan Piker, and the Case for Data Centers

Transcript

Canadian Tariffs, Hasan Piker, and the Case for Data Centers · The Hugh Hewitt Show: Highly Concentrated

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast, sponsored by Hillsdale College.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: All things Hillsdale at hillsdale.edu.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: I encourage you to take advantage of the many free
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: online courses there. And of course, to listen to the
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Hillsdale Dialogues, all of them at hueforhillsdale.com or just Google Apple, iTunes,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: and Hillsdale.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Good morning, glory, and grace, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Welcome to this Wednesday edition of the Hugh Hewitt Show.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I am joined right off the bat by Mary Kissel.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Mary is the CEO of the Kissel Group, longtime friend
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: of the program, former senior counselor at the Department of State,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: also a Wall Street Journal board member. Now she serves
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: on boards, and she's a nonresident fellow at Hudson. I
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: just consider her to be the smart person in the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: room on China and everything related to China. So that
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: means I'm going to start with Operation Economic Outcast. Mary Kissel,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: welcome back. Tell me what your opinion of Secretary Besson's
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Operation Economic Outcast is.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Oil at $ 82. 50 a barrel as we speak.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: It's always great to be with you, Hugh. Thanks for
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: having me on the program. I think this operation announced
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: by the Treasury Secretary is frankly long overdue. We knew
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: from the first Trump term with that maximum pressure campaign
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: that you can impose real economic costs on the regime.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: And you can see that having consequences. In the first term,
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: that was reducing the amount of funds that went to
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: the proxies and other terror groups around the world. Now,
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: of course, the goal is different. It's not just to
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: choke off the proxies. It's to achieve a change in
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: the regime's behavior that would make them more amenable to
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: the goals that the president has set out. Now, whether
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: or not that is going to be achieved is not
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: clear at this point, Hugh, we should say. We know
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: that many terrible regimes throughout the decades have survived great
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: economic pressure because they Frankly, all they need to do
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: is to keep control over their own citizens. And they
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: may think they can just hang on through Trump, too.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: The key is obviously going to be China. As you say,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: China is the regime's main economic enabler. You could add
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: to that list Turkey, Qatar, Malaysia, Pakistan. All of these
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: regimes need to feel the consequence of these sanctions. And
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: in particular, China, which we've never really been serious about sanctioning,
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: particularly with the secondary sanctions tool. We've never gone after
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: their major financial institutions to any significant degree. We have
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: to do it for the regime banks in not just
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: the mainland, but in Hong Kong as well. If we
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: do that, I think that we might exert significant pressure.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: But if we back off, as the president did after
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: China used its economic tools last year, then I think
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: the likelihood of success would be diminished.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So, Mary Kissel, one of your many expertise is China,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: of course. I have a double-barreled China question, triple-barreled actually,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Iran and the upcoming visit by Xi Jinping. But I
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: want to start with a natural disaster today, an epic one.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: People haven't seen it yet. A glacial lake gave way
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: down the border of Tibet, which is occupied by the
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: CCP and has been since the 50s. and Nepal, wreaking
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: havoc all the way to wherever it's going. It's just
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: a devastating flood. What does that do to a totalitarian
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: government like China?
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Anything?
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Do they have to respond at all, or do the
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: people in Tibet just have to suck it up and
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: dig their own way out of this catastrophic event?
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Boy, it's been a long time since you've heard the
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: word Tibet, isn't it, Hugh? It used to be in
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: the news all the time, all the terrible things that
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Beijing would do to the people of Tibet. You don't
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: hear about it so much anymore, just like you don't
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: hear so much about Xinjiang. You know, when I lived
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: in Asia, particularly in Hong Kong, there were natural disasters
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: in China fairly frequently from earthquakes and other natural and
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: man-made disasters. And the regime just shuts it right down.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: They don't let outside cameras in. It's not as if
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: American or European reporters can kind of walk in and
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: interview the person that built the faulty building or the
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: faulty dam, et cetera. In this case, you're seeing that
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: footage because that footage came from the Nepal side and
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: it can't be denied. So to me, that's one of
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: the important lessons here is not that natural disasters occur, although,
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: of course, they occur much more frequently in regimes like, say,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: China and Venezuela, where the incentive structures are messed up
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: and the infrastructure is not built in a very sturdy way.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: But we only have a small glimpse into the level
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: of suffering that the Chinese people, the Tibetans, the residents
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: of Xinjiang suffer through.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Mary Kissel, it's been at least seven, maybe eight years
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: since you gave me my first briefing on Xi Jinping
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: and the regime. And every day I get John Ellis's
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: news items, first thing I read in the morning. And
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: there's usually three or four bits of news about China
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: because it's such a big part of the puzzle. They're
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: really struggling. Their youth unemployment is soaring. Their home equity
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: market is collapsing. Their big developers are folding up left
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: and right. Is that regime stable?
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I don't think authoritarian regimes writ large are stable, Hugh,
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: but it doesn't mean that they can't hold on for many,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: many decades. I mean, look at the example of North
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: Korea in the Kim regime, which is now on its
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: third and soon to be fourth generation. Look at the
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: prehistoric Taliban regime in Afghanistan and how long they hung on.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, my concern with communist China is
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: that they have unprecedented tools of control over their own citizens.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: They also possess hundreds of nuclear weapons. They're building military
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: that is aimed at us. They have no ethical controls
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: over things like their biological or their chemical weapons program.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: And now they're allied openly with Russia, Iran, North Korea
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: and And we see this new bloc emerging, cooperating, planning,
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: plotting against us, not just in the Iran conflict, but
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: also in Ukraine. And they're aiming at us. They're aiming
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: at our soldiers. We've seen, for instance, targeting information being
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: given to Iran so they can shoot at our ships.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is of deep concern. And we need
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: to learn to start talking about the world in this fashion,
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: as it really is, with these regimes cooperating with one another.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: You put on the other side the free West, which
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: is engaging in trade conflicts and great domestic political upheavals,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: and it's a very chaotic and a very dangerous time.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: So, Mary Kissel, a CEO calls you up at the
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Kissel Group, and they want some advice on where to
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: place overseas productions. And they're looking at Malaysia and Indonesia,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and they're looking at Vietnam, and China's offering them a
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: really good deal.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: How do you frame that for them?
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Well, essentially, you say, look, you should do the same
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: due diligence that you do in these nations as you
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: would in the free West. So why would you ever accept,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: for instance, a lack of property rights or proper arbitration
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: or the risk that your employees could be arbitrarily detained?
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: All of those things are true in China. So that's
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: number one, is are you doing the same due diligence
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: that you're doing in so-called normal jurisdictions? And then number two,
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: is it worth the near-term risk to be operating there?
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: There are many places around the world where you can
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: maybe achieve the same outcomes. What is more likely? Do
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: you want to be in a location, a jurisdiction with
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: sunk costs for five years and then suddenly you don't
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: have access to it? Or do you want to invest
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: for the longer term accept a lower return, but have
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: something that's sustainable. I mean, I've long advocated that the
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: United States should go on offense, not just defense, and
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: start putting together special economic zones, tax incentives, tools to
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: attract capital and investment instead of constantly playing defense as
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: we're doing on the tariffs and the trade wars, which
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: really doesn't benefit the U.S. consumer. I also think we
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: need clearer red lines. I is because we don't call
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: China an enemy. And so, you know, they may be
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: looking at a two, three, five-year forecast and saying, well,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: maybe it's okay for us to be here. The government's
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: not telling us to get out. We just make buttons, right?
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: And so it's a transitional period. But what I would
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: say is, you know, you do the same due diligence
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: that you do elsewhere in the world. You weigh the
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: risk and reward. And then you look at the big trends.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Do you want to be in a jurisdiction that's allying
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: with China and placing its bets on China? Do you
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: want to be in a place that's liberalizing or moving
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: in the opposite direction? And talking, for instance, about the
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: countries of the Mediterranean, which are ironically, Hugh, some of
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: the best economic performers in Europe. Do you want to
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: be somewhere closer in your backyard? It's going to be
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: particular to every company.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I want to get one quick question before we run
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: out of time, Mary. I have been asked to comment
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: on Fox Business and Fox News about the Canada-U.S.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Trade impasse.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And I always go to the fact, look, there's a
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: lot more on the table than the Costa hockey sticks.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: They have not spent over 2% of their GDP on
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: defense in more than a decade. They've been down to 1.2%.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: They're now cozying up with China. Mark Carney is an
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: international banker personified. Should we broaden out the lens as
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: we consider our trade relations with Canada? The fact they're
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: not really on Team West anymore.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a difficult question to answer, Hugh. I mean,
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: how quickly can you build auto parts and supplies in
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: other jurisdictions? And what about the terms of the USMCA,
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: which I don't think we want to unilaterally break? What
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: about the cost to you? consumers? See the editorial in
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: the journal this morning about the deeply elevated costs that
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: Americans are paying for steel and aluminum products. I mean,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: these are complicated issues. They don't have easy answers. But certainly,
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: I think it's in all of our interests, regardless of
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: whether or not we like the guy next door or not,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: to come to some sort of resolution so that companies
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: can do planning. Do I like the fact that Mark
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Carney thinks his future is in Beijing? Absolutely not. I
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: think it's folly. I think it's appalling. But he's not
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: going to be in power forever, and I'd rather come
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: to a sustainable solution sooner rather than later.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Always level-headed.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Mary Kissel, good to see you again, my friend. CEO
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: of the Kissel Group, Senior Fellow, Nonresident at Heritage Foundation.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Mary. Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt, joined
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: by Noah C. Rothman, senior writer at National Review, author
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: of the recently released Blood and Progress.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Noah, welcome.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I have two topics for you. Situation in Iran, including
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: economic outcasts, Operation Economic Outcasts, and Hassan Piker.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: You get to choose which one we do first.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: Well, let's take the sober and serious one first, and
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: let's go for the landscape in Iran and globally when
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: it comes.
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: To the war.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Lay out what you see, because there are some reports
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: online at this hour that there's unrest in Iran or
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: signs of worry on the part of the regime.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: What know you?
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: I know about as much as anybody else, but I
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: found it pretty interesting to see the American press begin
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: to devote its attention to events on the ground in Iran.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: It's been a long time since we had any focus
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: on the Iranian perspective. It's all about the United States
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: and how the United States is basically at war with itself.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: from the perspective of the American press. I was reading
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: this piece on NPR today. A lot of interesting details
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: when you get past the third, fourth, fifth sections. I mean,
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: we're talking about like the 28th graph. But at that point,
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: you get the view from Tehran, quote unquote. And they
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: describe incredibly harrowing conditions. People who are spending a third
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: of their $ 100 a month salary on just basic essentials,
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: sanitary pads, laundry detergent, to say nothing about food. There's
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: a story of one woman who describes encountering her bank
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: account being locked, $ 1, 000 being missing from it, which is
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: a significant sum of money for any Iranian. And the
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: banker is telling them that it was hacked, that they
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: have no idea who did it, and they have no
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: idea how to get their money back. So they're stealing
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: from individual depositors now. That's basically the gist of this thing.
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: To say nothing of individual Iranians who are apparently completely
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: unfazed by telling Western reporters, quote-unquote, the blockade is worse
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: than the war.
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: And the blockade is.
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: Worse than the war for the Iranian people. I don't
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: know if anybody's been able to verify Energy Secretary Chris
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: Wright's numbers. The Wall Street Journal and CNN were skeptical
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: of them. But they both note that, A, 80% of
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: the maritime traffic that's flowing out of the strait is
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: now flowing out of the Omami Channel, which is the U.S.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: guaranteed channel, which is not the case a month ago.
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: And B.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: that while private trackers cannot find all the energy that
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: Chris Wright says is being exported out of there, which
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: is approximately, in his telling, 15 million barrels, which is
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: close to the 20 million on average that was flowing
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: out of the Strait before the war. But they do
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: note that some trackers find something close to America's numbers.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: And that's because all this stuff is, by definition, invisible
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: to private enterprise and private trackers. They're flowing out of
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: this thing with their transponders off. They're offloading their shipments
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: at sea. moving them onto overland channels, over routes, and
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: they won't be visible to the private sector until they
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: get to markets. But then lastly, and I don't mean
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: to monologize, but one last point. When the administration announced
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: this economic war on Iran, oil collapsed by 3%. Global
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: prices collapsed. That's one of two things that the market
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: is telling you. One, they don't think the war is
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: going to start again, and that's the real fear.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: And two, that.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: Energy is reaching the market and it's stabilizing global energy prices.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: That's good news for the administration. That's good news for
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: the West. And it's the sort of thing that has
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: been going on, I think, for a month now, and
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: they're just reporting it.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Oil is at $ 82.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: 50 a barrel as we speak at this minute, and
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that's significantly lower than I expected it to be this week.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: So I think oil is getting through the Southern Strait.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: All right, we'll put that into one side. Things are
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: better in the war than they have been in a
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: long time, but it's a long way to go until
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: they're beaten.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Let me turn to Mr. Piker. background. Do you use
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Twitch at all, Noah?
• 14:36
  Speaker 7: No.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: I don't use any social media platforms except for X,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: and that's only for professional purposes.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Right, and I use X. That's all I do.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: But I went on Twitch yesterday, and I loaded up
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: the software, and I had a look, and I got
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: a headache. I mean, it's really just not a desirable
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: way to consume media. Who are these 3 million people
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that are watching Hasan Piker on And what is it
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: doing to their brains?
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: That's a very good question. So first of all, we
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: should put that in perspective. Three million people is not
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: a very large audience. In today's atomized media landscape, those
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: are big numbers. But historically, those would be really a small,
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: paltry audience. Nevertheless, it punches above its weight, in part
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: because it is so online. These people are online, and
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: online mechanisms, social media mechanisms, are the only feedback that
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: American institutional media the heads of American institutions get, really.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: So they're very hypersensitive to the feedback they get from
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: nobodies on Twitter. Have been for a long time. Second,
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: what is it doing to these people's brains? There's a
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: level of overstimulation that I think is accompanied by social media.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, I see it in my own kids. I
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: saw it with them when they were babies. You know,
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: there's some algorithmic thing that happens to the brain where
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: there is a mood-altering element to consuming too much fast-moving media,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: these short-form videos, what have you. Have you seen the dashboard?
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: The dashboard is nuts on Twitch. Absolutely crazy.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: You cannot possibly concentrate. That's why Piker's commentary is so
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: inane and fractured. It's just a stream of consciousness.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like you need to be bombarded with stimuli.
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: And in the absence of that bombardment, you get, you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: You're not experiencing all the flow of information that you expect.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: And so your brain, which is wired to expect all
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: these inputs, goes searching around for new inputs because it's fallow.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: It's unused.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: It needs to be constantly stimulated. And yeah, that's the
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: sort of thing that you could become addicted to. I mean,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: there's a chemical release there. So the question for the.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Author of Blood and Progress, do you think the means
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: by which the radical left consumes information in this discordant,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: chaotic jumble of emotions, profanity, vulgarity, and implied and sometimes
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: explicit threats of violence is the stew from which violence
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: is being brewed?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: There are no appeals to logic or reason on these platforms.
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: They're all hot media. which is a term of art
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: that I think is probably old at this point. But
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: they're hot media as opposed to cold media, which is
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: to say that they thrive in passions. You have to
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: express passions and elicit passions. Virtually all visual media are
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: hot media. And so, yeah, that's how you get attention
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: in the attention economy, of course. But it's also how
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: you manipulate your audience into believing that whatever it is
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: you're talking about is the most important thing in the universe.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: And you see that in just about every one of
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: these videos, especially when they're advocacy videos, is they... appeal
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: to you through emotion, through emotional blackmail, and then they
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: give you an action, call to action, and then enlist
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: you in a cause that's greater than yourself. And for
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: a generation that is as atomized and as envious of
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: the struggles of previous generations as the one that's coming up,
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: the most comfortable generation that has ever lived on the
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: planet Earth, yeah, they're going to be looking for something
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: to devote themselves to. And this gives you an easy
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: way to do that and also a very rewarding way,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: the satisfying release of that chemical in your brain, It's
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: the sort of thing that becomes, yes, very addictive and
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: something that a reward or a mechanism that gives you
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: a reward.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Congresswoman Dingell said today, no more questions on Piker. It's
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: a stunt to draw attention to it. I think that
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: there are going to be questions about Piker from now
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: until the election and beyond. I think he's ruining the
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Democratic message. 50 seconds, Noah.
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: Is he?
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: And it's funny to see those who know they have
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: to distance themselves, like Abdel El Saeed. attempt to do
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: so without mentioning his name so as to not actually
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: distance himself from either Hassan Piker or his followers. You know,
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: it's a very it was a bad bet that the
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: progressives made by latching onto this guy and his popularity
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: in order to glom some of it, you know, take
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: some away from him and and use it for their
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: own instrumental purposes. And yeah, they're regretting it now. There's
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: nothing they can do about it. Republicans are going to
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: follow them around with this message forever. But yeah, it
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: was a short term bet for long term pain.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: And boy, did they get the paint.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: The Hogan's have made that mistake before.
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: That's what happens when you... From now to November. When
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: you lather yourself in anger, the rest of the country notices.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Noah C.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Rothman on X, his brand new book is Blood and Progress. Boy,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: was it timely.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: It still is. Stay tuned, America. I'll be right back.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, America.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewitt, joined by Bethany Mandel.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Her substack is... I can't remember your substack, Bethany. What
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: is your substack?
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: The Mom Wars.
• 19:44
  Speaker 8: You're usually my best promotion. You know all my stuff
• 19:46
  Speaker 8: better than I do, usually.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: That's because I was too focused on... Assan Piker. TheMomWars.Substack.com. Bethany,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: do you ever stream on Twitch?
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: No.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, do you ever go on Twitch?
• 19:59
  Speaker 8: 40 years old, mother of six.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I know, but do you ever go on it and
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: watch it? No. Okay.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I actually loaded it up yesterday during the show, put
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: it on, Because I wanted to understand, Hasan Piker has
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: 3 million people following him on Twitch. And those people
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: are deranged because the screen is a mess. It is
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: not a coherent display of information.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: It's not X. It's not CNN. It's not Fox. It's
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: not the Salem News Channel. It's a mess.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: What do you think it does to people to watch
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: someone like Piker for six, seven hours a day that
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: he broadcasts?
• 20:39
  Speaker 8: It's interesting because I think that there's a lot of
• 20:41
  Speaker 8: research that hasn't been done, probably because there's financial incentives,
• 20:45
  Speaker 8: but about how the media that we consume and our
• 20:49
  Speaker 8: children consume and your grandchildren consume, how that has changed
• 20:53
  Speaker 8: the wiring of our brain. If you think about like Mr. Rogers,
• 20:58
  Speaker 8: for example, what I was raised on, everything moved very slowly.
• 21:03
  Speaker 8: And now kids these days, not to sound like an
• 21:06
  Speaker 8: old person, but Kids these days, the frames are much
• 21:10
  Speaker 8: faster and everything feels much more schizophrenic. You fast forward
• 21:14
  Speaker 8: 20 years and the kids who were raised on that
• 21:16
  Speaker 8: crazy fast frame, I wonder if that has changed their
• 21:21
  Speaker 8: brains in a way that they need something far more
• 21:24
  Speaker 8: chaotic to hold their attention, like Twitch, that CNN or
• 21:28
  Speaker 8: Fox isn't holding their attention because that holds the attention
• 21:31
  Speaker 8: of people who were raised on Mr. Rogers and beforehand,
• 21:34
  Speaker 8: but So it's rewired their brains in a way that
• 21:38
  Speaker 8: has made just absolute chaos what they need to consume
• 21:42
  Speaker 8: for entertainment purposes, if that makes sense.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: This might be totally Greek to you. I thought you, Mr.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Hewitt, and I were talking about the reading habits of
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: our teen and young adult years during the summer when
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: you had a summer job and you didn't have a
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: lot of entertainment. You might go to a movie a
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: week or something like that or the Dairy Queen or
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: play golf.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: But you read books.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: You read Leon Uris and Nelson DeMille and the summer
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Alex Haley and Inferno. I mean, you just read trash novels.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I went out there reading Aeschylus. I don't want to
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: hold my I was just read. But it required sustained
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: attention to a novel and Trinity by Leon Uris would
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: suck you in. I don't think kids do that. I mean,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: teenagers and young adult. I don't think they do that anymore.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: Do you?
• 22:25
  Speaker 8: No, I mean, it's funny that you call Leon Uris
• 22:28
  Speaker 8: trash because it's that that's considered like great literature for
• 22:33
  Speaker 8: kids now. Like parents would be thrilled if their kids
• 22:34
  Speaker 8: were reading.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 22:37
  Speaker 8: But yeah, I mean, now kids these days are reading
• 22:40
  Speaker 8: Dogman and graphic novels. And I'm, you know, Captain Underpants.
• 22:44
  Speaker 8: I'm speaking for myself, too. I own all of this
• 22:46
  Speaker 8: crap also.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. My grandkids read it all.
• 22:49
  Speaker 8: This is it's it's unfortunate. But this is this is
• 22:52
  Speaker 8: the reality.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: So what is that going to do to the ability
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: to process complex information across a generation that is rising?
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:02
  Speaker 8: I mean, we're seeing the result. Let's rewind to the
• 23:04
  Speaker 8: beginning of this segment. It's Hasan Piker. It's people who
• 23:08
  Speaker 8: are not able to analyze complex thoughts. There's really interesting
• 23:12
  Speaker 8: research about the length of sentences and how that has
• 23:16
  Speaker 8: changed in literature over time. If you look at the
• 23:19
  Speaker 8: most popular books now, The sentences are much shorter. The paragraphs,
• 23:24
  Speaker 8: the chapters are much shorter because people have been raised
• 23:27
  Speaker 8: on TikTok. And so they don't have the attention span
• 23:30
  Speaker 8: to pay attention to a book for more than five
• 23:32
  Speaker 8: minutes at a time. And so everything is compressed as
• 23:34
  Speaker 8: a result.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: So I've been listening to Piker in an attempt. I
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: will write tomorrow for my Fox News column about him.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: He's not very smart. He went to Rutgers. Apparently, you
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: can get out of Rutgers. At least I write Lennon
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: and Mao and Marx comments.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: You know I went to Rutgers, right?
• 23:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that. I did not know that. Hasan
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Piker went to Rutgers. Did you know that?
• 23:58
  Speaker 8: That was quite the unintentional burn.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: Well, did you read well at Rutgers? Well, he didn't
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: obviously read much. Did you have to read much?
• 24:08
  Speaker 8: Okay, if we're being honest, the public university of New
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: Jersey was not a stellar educational choice on my part.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, every university is whatever you put into it.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: It really is.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: You can go to the local community college and read Aeschylus,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: or you can go to Rutgers. But he didn't read anything.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: My point is he's a dummy. And so earlier today,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Representative Debbie Dingell in Michigan announced, no more questions about
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Hassan Piker. They are a Republican attempt to divide Democrats.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: What do you think about that?
• 24:38
  Speaker 8: That is absolutely wild. You cannot have your cake and
• 24:41
  Speaker 8: eat it to my friend. You cannot have him headlining
• 24:44
  Speaker 8: at all of your events and then say, stop paying
• 24:46
  Speaker 8: attention to the man behind the curtain.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: So it won't work.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I think he's an anchor on their neck and he's
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: going to drag down a lot of Democrats, including outside.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: I cannot imagine winning.
• 24:59
  Speaker 8: I think that's absolutely true. And we're seeing some Democrats
• 25:01
  Speaker 8: distancing themselves from him.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: It's about time.
• 25:05
  Speaker 8: But, you know, He's already headlining events. He's already speaking
• 25:09
  Speaker 8: at all these rallies. He's at the Young Democrats events.
• 25:15
  Speaker 8: They should try to put their genie back in the bottle,
• 25:16
  Speaker 8: but I wish them luck because it's not going to
• 25:18
  Speaker 8: be easy.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: So let's talk Rutgers. Obviously, you never went to a
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: football game.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: How? No.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: No, because Rutgers is in the Big Ten, and they're
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the homecoming game for everyone.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: What did you major in at Rutgers?
• 25:32
  Speaker 8: I walked in once just to say I had.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: You did?
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Okay. What did you major in at Rutgers? History. Okay, well,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: that's good. Did they make you read a lot?
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, or did they let you out with three
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: courses on, who's the guy that wrote The People's History, Zen?
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Was it a Zen-dominated? Zen, Howard Zen.
• 25:52
  Speaker 8: That was my high school education. No, so I, there's
• 25:56
  Speaker 8: this beautiful website at Rutgers called ratemyprofessor.com. And I would
• 26:00
  Speaker 8: go on and see which professors had the easiest course
• 26:03
  Speaker 8: load for every required subject, and then I'd do that.
• 26:06
  Speaker 8: If we're just being honest, I majored in waitressing at Rutgers.
• 26:11
  Speaker 8: That was what I spent all of my time doing,
• 26:14
  Speaker 8: was waitressing. The class part was not really.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: A feature of my college experience. Are you learning more
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: by homeschooling your kids than you learn in college?
• 26:23
  Speaker 8: An unbelievable amount, yes. And I'm realizing the massive gaps
• 26:28
  Speaker 8: that I have in my own personal learning.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I've heard that from every homeschooling parent, that the commitment
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: to do that, in fact, doubles their education actually attained.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Over what they did in college. By the way, I'm
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: no hero.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I took beginner's Latin after having had four years of
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Latin in ancient Greek as a freshman at Harvard because
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to take a hard course. So I
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: just sat in the back row and did my uso
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: y uso. So I'm not a hero of college hard studying.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Bethany Mandel, read her at themomwars.substack.com, and you will not
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: find her on Twitch, Rumble, or any streaming platform. Only
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: at themomwars.substack.com. Stay tuned, America.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, America.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Jim Tallent was a United States Senator from Missouri, also
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: a House member from Missouri. He is our regular guest.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: He's on the board of the Reagan Institute. Jim, I
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: want to delve into your political experience here. The Al-Sayed
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: campaign is coming apart at the wheel. I know what
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: this is like when one of the people I have
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: wanted to win, when their wheels come off and they're
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: in a ditch and they keep spinning their wheels deeper
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: and deeper.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Is that how you feel about it? I don't know
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: that he can get the car out of the ditch. Yeah,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 27:43
  Speaker 7: And the effect on the candidate, particularly a guy who's
• 27:47
  Speaker 7: never been through this, I mean, there's a sense of
• 27:51
  Speaker 7: panic that you have. You begin to dread every interview.
• 27:57
  Speaker 7: Things go through your mind. What can I do to
• 27:59
  Speaker 7: get out of this? And I don't think there is
• 28:02
  Speaker 7: anything he can do because he campaigned with Hasan Piker.
• 28:07
  Speaker 7: I mean, the guy was at his side. So he's
• 28:09
  Speaker 7: either got to denounce him now, which he can't do
• 28:12
  Speaker 7: because then he alienates a huge part of his base,
• 28:15
  Speaker 7: or he's got to defend him, which means he's talking
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: about Hasan Piker rather than what he wants to talk about.
• 28:21
  Speaker 7: Or he can do what he's trying to do, which
• 28:23
  Speaker 7: is to try and pivot everything away from Hasan Piker.
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: But that just looks desperate. So there's really no options.
• 28:30
  Speaker 7: He's kind of behind the eight ball, and I can't
• 28:33
  Speaker 7: say I feel sorry for him.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Well, he's got 70 days of hell in front of him, right?
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: People have to break this down. They've got to get
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: up every morning. They've got to do four events. They've
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: got to make calls for money. And everyone's going to
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: talk to him about Piker, as you just said. And
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I wonder, does he... Does it show, do you think
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: the polls have collapsed?
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Is that why he went on Jesse Water?
• 28:59
  Speaker 7: I'm sure he's looking at numbers that are going in
• 29:01
  Speaker 7: the wrong direction. I mean, look, if you're a president,
• 29:04
  Speaker 7: you can try and change the tone by doing something big, right?
• 29:09
  Speaker 7: But when you're a candidate for the Senate, you're kind
• 29:11
  Speaker 7: of at the mercy of the outside environment. What he
• 29:13
  Speaker 7: needs is for something to happen that shifts the attention
• 29:18
  Speaker 7: away from The questions that have been asked to this point,
• 29:22
  Speaker 7: then maybe he can he can do something. He can,
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: you know, some big national event that he can start
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: commenting on and people stop asking questions.
• 29:30
  Speaker 6: But I don't know.
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: It's a it's a it's a tough position to be in.
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: I was in situations where the numbers weren't good. I
• 29:40
  Speaker 7: was never in a situation where I campaigned with an
• 29:45
  Speaker 7: anti-Semite and a supporter of Islamic terrorists. So I don't
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: really know what advice to give Al-Sayed if he were
• 29:53
  Speaker 7: to call me up and ask for it.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about advice to your– I don't know
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: how many of your friends are still in the Senate
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: are Democrats. But Cory Booker last night, who's got aspirations
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: to be president of the United States, and he's got
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: some talent. He slapped down Hassan Piker hard by name,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: distinguishing himself from Hakeem Jeffries and other Democrats who want
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: to denounce the idea that Jews are calling violence down
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: on themselves by supporting Israel.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: They got it.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: They want– Cory Booker just cut him off at the knees.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: If you're advising one of your old friends who's still
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: in the Senate, what do you tell them to do
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: about Assange Piker?
• 30:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that was pretty good advice, particularly for
• 30:33
  Speaker 7: a guy who wants to be president.
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: Now, if you don't want to be president, you just
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: stay away from the subject.
• 30:37
  Speaker 7: I'm not talking about right and.
• 30:40
  Speaker 6: Wrong here, you.
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: I mean, everybody ought to be doing what John Fetterman
• 30:43
  Speaker 7: is doing, which is just denouncing all this in the
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: party to get out of it, to do what Ted
• 30:48
  Speaker 7: Cruz did in a situation that was much less... much
• 30:54
  Speaker 7: less difficult because the Republicans aren't infested with this the
• 30:57
  Speaker 7: way the Democrats are. But if you want to run
• 30:59
  Speaker 7: for president, I think it's a smart move on Booker's part.
• 31:01
  Speaker 7: And the reason is because if Al-Sayed goes down and
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: it looks like he is going down, then Piker is
• 31:08
  Speaker 7: probably going to get blamed. And then even his supporters,
• 31:12
  Speaker 7: even people who've been part of his base, are going
• 31:15
  Speaker 7: to start running away from it a little bit. So
• 31:16
  Speaker 7: it'll look like Booker got ahead of the wave. It's
• 31:19
  Speaker 7: a gamble, but I think it's probably a smart gamble
• 31:22
  Speaker 7: on his part.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: If you're Rahm Emanuel and you want to run in
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the very dusty and overgrown trail marked Bill Clinton, triangulation,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: what do you do?
• 31:35
  Speaker 7: You repeat what Emanuel has been saying. You try to
• 31:39
  Speaker 7: do it in a way that doesn't alienate people. In
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: other words, you lay a basis for being able to
• 31:44
  Speaker 7: claim afterwards that you were right When you said that
• 31:48
  Speaker 7: if the party went down this angle of anti-Semitism, radicalism, etc.,
• 31:54
  Speaker 7: it would get rejected by the American people, which it will.
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: That may not happen in these midterms. But if they
• 32:00
  Speaker 7: go into the 2028 elections running on socialism or running
• 32:05
  Speaker 7: on anti-Semitism or running on any of this radical stuff,
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: they're going to get rejected. So if you're Emmanuel, you
• 32:13
  Speaker 7: lay the basis for being able to claim afterwards that
• 32:16
  Speaker 7: you were right all along.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Jim, I've been doing the boomer thing and fretting about
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: kids online watching other people play games on Twitch. I
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: went on Twitch yesterday and investigated. It's a nightmare, right?
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: It's like an attention deficit disorder factory.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: What do we do about that?
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: Well, I think there are pockets of kids who are
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: not okay. I mean, you know the old phrase, the
• 32:43
  Speaker 7: kids are not okay. I think there's pockets of them
• 32:46
  Speaker 7: who are not okay. I mean, a lot of them
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: are self-reporting mental illness, et cetera, and everybody's trying to
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: chase down the cause of it. There are some solid,
• 32:57
  Speaker 7: here's what I would say. If there's something we can
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: do that takes a piece out of the problem and
• 33:03
  Speaker 7: we're reasonably convinced it's actually going to do that, do
• 33:06
  Speaker 7: that thing. So this proposal, which Jonathan Haidt and others
• 33:11
  Speaker 7: have made, that we ought to get these smartphones out
• 33:14
  Speaker 7: of the schools is, I think, is.
• 33:17
  Speaker 6: I think very worthy.
• 33:18
  Speaker 7: In other words, at least get them away from this
• 33:20
  Speaker 7: stuff for the six or seven hours a day when
• 33:23
  Speaker 7: they're at school. There's no reason why they need to
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: have those things then. And there are a lot of
• 33:27
  Speaker 7: states and localities that are doing that so that they
• 33:30
  Speaker 7: free their brain up from this for at least part
• 33:33
  Speaker 7: of the time. That's a solid proposal that I think
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: would work. Other than that, I mean, it's tough to
• 33:39
  Speaker 7: be a parent today. You, I talk with my kids about,
• 33:42
  Speaker 7: I'm a grandfather just like you are.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: It's tough.
• 33:45
  Speaker 7: I mean, if I was raising a kid in this environment,
• 33:48
  Speaker 7: I think I would say I'm going to err very
• 33:51
  Speaker 7: much on the side of keeping them away from all
• 33:53
  Speaker 7: this stuff, even if it means inconvenience, even if it
• 33:56
  Speaker 7: means they only have a flip phone or something like that,
• 33:59
  Speaker 7: because we're just beginning to deal with the leading edge
• 34:02
  Speaker 7: of this problem, I believe.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: And 30 seconds, Jim. Chinese Communist Party has enormous rings
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: and guardrails around this. Does that inevitably propel them ahead
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: of us?
• 34:16
  Speaker 6: You mean with AI and all of that? No, with kids.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Just a reading public, a literate group of kids.
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: No, for two reasons, Hugh. In the first place, I
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: think a lot of this can be fixed.
• 34:30
  Speaker 7: In the second place, we are still producing millions and
• 34:35
  Speaker 7: millions of really great young people. Every time I nominated
• 34:40
  Speaker 7: kids for the service academy, and it was a long
• 34:42
  Speaker 7: time ago, I always had a party for them, and
• 34:45
  Speaker 7: I did it to encourage them.
• 34:47
  Speaker 6: Me, not them, you. Well said.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Well said.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Jim Talent can be followed on X at Jim Talent.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Follow me, Hugh Hewitt, to the next segment on The
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Hugh Hewitt Show. If you've listened to this program for
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: any length of time, you know I appreciate companies that
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: deliver real value without unnecessary gimmicks. That's why I'm pleased
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: to recommend Consumer Cellular. They offer reliable nationwide coverage, outstanding
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: customer service, and plans that simply make sense. Right now
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: you can get a brand new 5G phone and an
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: unlimited everything rate plan for $ 59 a month or even less.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: That's right, your low monthly price includes your new device
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: and an unlimited talk, text, and data plan with 36-month
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: easy pay financing. Choose the 5G phone that's right for you,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: and when those 36 months are up, you own the phone,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: the company doesn't own you. Here's an exclusive bonus for
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: my listeners. For a limited time, use the promo code HU50,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: and you'll receive an additional $ 50 off your service. Visit
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: consumersailor.com slash hue today to find the right phone. Enjoy
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: affordable wireless with unlimited plan for $ 59 a month or less.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: That's ConsumerCellular.com slash Hugh. And remember to use the promo
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: code Hugh50 to save an additional $ 50. Now I want
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: to tell you about a sponsor. Because we have the
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Hugh Hewitt Book Club. And I do sponsor books. And
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: a brand new one is coming your way called Carbon Zero.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Carbon Zero is by Craig Stanfill. Craig Stanfill is an
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: AI innovator and AI pioneer. And he decided he would
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: imagine where the technology could take us. And from someone
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: who truly understands the subject matter, and I'm holding the
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: advanced copy right here, I couldn't put it down. I
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: read it in two days, and it's scary, very scary.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: One command to the wrong AI agent, and a lot
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: can go wrong. Indeed, dystopian novel land goes wrong. And
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Carbon Zero... is the novel that explains how that happens. Now,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: it's available at Amazon.com right now. You can visit my
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: book club at HughHewitt.com to learn more. And right now,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: if you just want the Kindle edition for a fast
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: read to end the summer, that's only $ 2.
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: 99.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: The book is, you know, I don't know what the
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: regular book price is. It's over at Amazon.com. But, okay,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: how bad can AI be? What could really go wrong?
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Craig Stanfill knows. Carbon Zero describes it. I'm going to
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: talk to him tomorrow in an interview for the book club,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: and I'll be telling you about it all week long.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: But if you want to know, like, worst case, this
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: is worst case. And, look, it's dystopian fiction. We hope
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: it doesn't come true. Could it come true?
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know about AI. Do you know about AI?
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: I know people who know AI, and they tell me, no,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: it's like any new technology. It can go good, it
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: can go bad. It's like nuclear weaponry. Okay, not reassuring
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: at all. Carbon Zero, Craig Stanfield.
• 37:43
  Speaker 9: Only on Salem Now, featuring one of Charlie Kirk's final interviews.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: The new documentary, Can You Hear Me.
• 37:49
  Speaker 10: Now, investigates modern prophets and their divine messages.
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: Some people absolutely have the gift of prophecy.
• 37:55
  Speaker 7: If God exists, how would he inject his information into
• 37:58
  Speaker 7: our world?
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: More than likely, he would use humans.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: Satan would love Christians to just be a spectator, not engage,
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: not participate.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Is there something he's trying to say? Can you hear
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: me now?
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: Pre-order the movie by September 10th.
• 38:09
  Speaker 10: Save 25% and get the DVD free at SalemNow.com.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: The flood of people, at least 10 million illegals, have
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: poured into this country.
• 38:20
  Speaker 10: Has the American dream disappeared or is it waiting to
• 38:23
  Speaker 10: be rebuilt? This weekend, the America 250 film series presents
• 38:28
  Speaker 10: Return of Our American Dream. Hear the stories that confront decline,
• 38:33
  Speaker 10: restore hope, and call Americans back to opportunity, work, family,
• 38:38
  Speaker 10: and freedom. Saturday and Sunday at 7 p.m. Eastern on
• 38:42
  Speaker 10: Salem News Channel.
• 38:45
  Speaker 7: Good morning, Laurie.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Needing Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: I'm going to break away from nonstop coverage of Assange
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Piker and the dumpster fire he's made of the Democratic Party,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: especially Abdul El-Sayed, to focus on a topic that has
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: been annoying me for months now, which is data centers.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Data centers are an unequivocally good thing for America and
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: a national security issue, and they can benefit the community
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: into which they go. President Trump has a rational policy
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: about them. but still hysteria is mounting around them. So
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I asked James Taylor to join us. James is the
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: president of the Heartland Institute, one of the country's leading
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: think tanks on environment and related issues.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: James, welcome.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: How long have you been digging into the... data center issue?
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: And why don't you tell me how you see it
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: playing out right now? Well, thank you for having me on, Hugh.
• 39:37
  Speaker 9: We at the Heartland Institute, we have been delving into
• 39:40
  Speaker 9: this issue for the past couple of years as the
• 39:42
  Speaker 9: topic has arisen. And you are entirely correct. Look, low
• 39:48
  Speaker 9: tech is not the future And if we are going
• 39:51
  Speaker 9: to be a nation and a people that are going
• 39:54
  Speaker 9: to be utilizing technology, which is a must to be
• 39:58
  Speaker 9: a first world country, we're going to need data centers
• 40:01
  Speaker 9: and we're going to need AI. And we don't even
• 40:03
  Speaker 9: need government to assist them.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: We just need government not to block them.
• 40:07
  Speaker 9: And so when you have people around the country that
• 40:09
  Speaker 9: are coming out with pitchforks and torches marching against these
• 40:13
  Speaker 9: data centers, what future.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Do they really want?
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: So, James, I want to start by asking you to
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: explain to people what's in a data center and what
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: are the objections, whether or not believable or not being
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: leveled against them.
• 40:31
  Speaker 9: So the data centers are basically the computing systems, the
• 40:36
  Speaker 9: infrastructure that we utilize, that all American households utilize, assuming
• 40:41
  Speaker 9: you have a cell phone and or a laptop and
• 40:44
  Speaker 9: you go on the Internet. This requires information. a central
• 40:49
  Speaker 9: location in which to have the various servers and all
• 40:52
  Speaker 9: those systems powering the system. And the objections against these
• 40:57
  Speaker 9: data centers, well, first of all, look, we're not a
• 40:59
  Speaker 9: socialist country. No private business should have to justify to
• 41:04
  Speaker 9: government that in a means test that there's a net
• 41:10
  Speaker 9: benefit to society. No, we're a system in which if
• 41:12
  Speaker 9: you want to start a business, you can start a business.
• 41:15
  Speaker 9: But even if we were to go down that path
• 41:17
  Speaker 9: of saying, well, are data centers, are they valuable?
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Are they worthwhile?
• 41:22
  Speaker 9: The answer is an obvious yes.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: So I interviewed State Senator Betancourt of Texas last month
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: when I was at the American Legislative Exchange Council gathering
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: in Florida.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: And he did it in his Texas way. He said, Hugh,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: we've got 350 of these in Texas already.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: And he went on to explain to me that in
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: one county in Texas with one data center, that one
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: data center threw off more tax revenue than the entire
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: budget of the county prior to its construction. So question
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: number one, is that typical that they are revenue generators
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: for local government? And two, wouldn't it be a lot
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: easier to sell if the local governments rebated the tax
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: revenue directly to property taxpayers?
• 42:08
  Speaker 9: Oh, that is a great question. And we're seeing this
• 42:10
  Speaker 9: in real time in West Virginia. Right now, there are
• 42:14
  Speaker 9: plans to eliminate the state income tax just based.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Off and not even entirely on.
• 42:21
  Speaker 9: They don't even need all the revenues from the data centers,
• 42:24
  Speaker 9: all the tax revenues. Just a portion of the tax
• 42:26
  Speaker 9: revenues from the data centers are going to be able
• 42:30
  Speaker 9: to allow the elimination of the state income tax. It's
• 42:33
  Speaker 9: kind of like a few years ago, I was touring
• 42:36
  Speaker 9: North Dakota. where you have the Bakken Shale Formation and
• 42:39
  Speaker 9: the oil production there. And you see these beautiful, state-of-the-art
• 42:44
  Speaker 9: high schools and government centers and parks and all sorts
• 42:48
  Speaker 9: of infrastructure in places that used to be dirt poor.
• 42:51
  Speaker 9: And that's just based on the tax revenue from oil production.
• 42:54
  Speaker 9: The same opportunity is available all around the country. You
• 42:57
  Speaker 9: don't have to be dependent on oil now. Any local government,
• 43:01
  Speaker 9: any state government can have a tremendous, can garner tremendous
• 43:04
  Speaker 9: benefits for its citizens everywhere. just by not getting in
• 43:08
  Speaker 9: the way, not putting up obstacles for these data centers.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: So, James Taylor, I'm from Warren, Ohio. It's in the
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: heart of the Steel Valley, Trumbull and Mahoning County, and
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: it became the burn-over district due to deindustrialization. The mills closed,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: GM moved away, Packard closed. There isn't anything there. If
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: they put a data center in at Lordstown, it would
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: be the biggest thing to happen. But I go back
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: to Lordstown. When GM built Lordstown in the 1960s, it
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: threw off so much tax revenue. that Trumbull County built
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: a vocational high school to serve the entire county. Isn't
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: that what every data center is, a gift package waiting
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: to be opened?
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 43:47
  Speaker 9: And on top of that, the majority of jobs being
• 43:51
  Speaker 9: created are even higher paying jobs than would have been
• 43:54
  Speaker 9: the case in your hometown back in the day for GM.
• 43:58
  Speaker 9: And again, it's not very much geography dependent. the ability
• 44:03
  Speaker 9: to host data centers is pretty much ubiquitous throughout the country.
• 44:08
  Speaker 9: So really, unless your state politicians or your local politicians
• 44:14
  Speaker 9: are actively and affirmatively getting in the way, then your
• 44:19
  Speaker 9: state and your community has the opportunity and your household
• 44:22
  Speaker 9: has the opportunity for these tremendous benefits. And there are
• 44:25
  Speaker 9: really little, if any, legitimate objections that stand up to
• 44:31
  Speaker 9: scrutiny from what we hear about that the various objections
• 44:34
  Speaker 9: largely coming from the left, which is ironic, but even they,
• 44:38
  Speaker 9: when they talk about land usage, compare the land usage
• 44:41
  Speaker 9: of a data center to a wind project or a
• 44:44
  Speaker 9: solar project, which is massively more, or even just to agriculture.
• 44:47
  Speaker 9: We need agriculture. It utilizes a lot of land. We
• 44:50
  Speaker 9: don't force out agriculture because it uses a lot of land.
• 44:53
  Speaker 9: It delivers a tremendous net societal benefits. So do data centers.
• 44:57
  Speaker 9: They talk about water usage. By and large, these data
• 45:01
  Speaker 9: centers now have the ability to to have a closed
• 45:04
  Speaker 9: cycle water system where they're not constantly bringing in water.
• 45:07
  Speaker 9: But even if they were, compare that to cannabis farms,
• 45:11
  Speaker 9: compare that again to agriculture. If it utilizes water, if
• 45:16
  Speaker 9: we have a functioning, wisely developed market system for the
• 45:20
  Speaker 9: pricing and delivery of water, it takes care of itself.
• 45:22
  Speaker 9: The same thing for energy usage. These are issues that
• 45:25
  Speaker 9: are not unique to data centers. In many cases, they
• 45:29
  Speaker 9: are much more poignant with other industries But we don't
• 45:33
  Speaker 9: go after those other industries because, by and large, look,
• 45:35
  Speaker 9: if you're developing a business that presents value to society,
• 45:39
  Speaker 9: you'll turn a profit. Your business will stay operating. And, again,
• 45:44
  Speaker 9: the mere fact that your business is successful shows that
• 45:46
  Speaker 9: it is providing societal benefit. People want to purchase your
• 45:49
  Speaker 9: goods and services. But the asserted harms, the energy, the water,
• 45:53
  Speaker 9: the land use, simply don't exist, or very, very minimally.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Well, the one argument I hear from opponents, negative externalities
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: are real. and they use power, and our grid is
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: old and underdeveloped. The answer to that is use the
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: tax revenue from the data center to rebuild your grid
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: or require cogeneration on site. Doug Burgum, now Secretary of
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: the Interior, told me about stranded natural gas in North Dakota.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: It can't be developed economically except on site. There are
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: places all over this country, which leads me to the
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: second question. Aren't they just going to move somewhere else
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: if we don't build them in America? Aren't they going
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: to go to Canada or Mexico or somewhere else? Because
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: we're not going to stop.
• 46:32
  Speaker 6: The world, are we?
• 46:35
  Speaker 9: And that's a great observation, yes. And already China is
• 46:39
  Speaker 9: looking to take the lead in AI. And Lord help
• 46:43
  Speaker 9: us if we're reliant on China for technology. Lord help
• 46:47
  Speaker 9: us if China has an edge. I mean, AI, a
• 46:52
  Speaker 9: cyber attack on America would be devastating. But even more
• 46:56
  Speaker 9: than just a cyber attack, in Ukraine today, we're seeing
• 46:58
  Speaker 9: how AI is being utilized by the military. If we
• 47:01
  Speaker 9: fall behind in tech, in AI development, we are going
• 47:06
  Speaker 9: to have a lot of troubles as a nation. We're
• 47:08
  Speaker 9: not going to have the ability to dictate our own
• 47:11
  Speaker 9: fate anymore. And that is a huge, huge problem that
• 47:15
  Speaker 9: we need to avoid.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: So let me close this way, James Taylor. The Heartland Institute,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about it. But also... Have
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: you seen a measured approach anywhere by a local government
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: to say, here's our tax increment that we'll be increasing,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: here's our revenue from this, and here's how we're going
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: to use it and we're going to benefit everyone? I
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: know one jurisdiction gave $ 50, 000 bonuses to teachers. That's a
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: bad idea. That's picking winners and losers. Just rebate it
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: to the people. What's the Heartland Institute doing to get
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: the message out?
• 47:47
  Speaker 9: Yeah, well, first of all, the Heartland Institute, we're a
• 47:49
  Speaker 9: free market public policy organization.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: We believe that government should be a last resort. We're
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: here to empower people.
• 47:56
  Speaker 9: And regarding the tech issue, by the way, we're well
• 47:59
  Speaker 9: known and in the past have been quite disliked by
• 48:02
  Speaker 9: the tech industry because we stood up strong.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: We were one of the few organizations.
• 48:06
  Speaker 9: To really fight big tech in the state legislatures on
• 48:11
  Speaker 9: social media censorship of conservative and libertarian voices. We have
• 48:15
  Speaker 9: taken them on in the past. We're not bought and
• 48:17
  Speaker 9: sold by big tech. In fact, We've probably been hated
• 48:20
  Speaker 9: by big tech more than any other organization. But that
• 48:23
  Speaker 9: being the case, I'm not going to say, okay, we
• 48:25
  Speaker 9: fought big tech in the past. Therefore, let's keep fighting
• 48:28
  Speaker 9: them because we do need these data centers.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: We do need AI. And basically, we're looking out for
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: the American people.
• 48:34
  Speaker 9: If it means that an entity that we have fought
• 48:38
  Speaker 9: against in the past, now we're fighting with, well, you
• 48:40
  Speaker 9: know what? On this particular topic, we need to stand
• 48:42
  Speaker 9: together on this. And then finally, for what have state
• 48:45
  Speaker 9: or local governments been doing? Right now, it's very tough
• 48:48
  Speaker 9: because there's this groundswell of opposition, and it comes from
• 48:52
  Speaker 9: the left and the right. And it's not based on
• 48:55
  Speaker 9: any real sound arguments. I mean, on the surface, people see, okay,
• 48:59
  Speaker 9: energy usage, water usage, land usage, et cetera. But those
• 49:04
  Speaker 9: concerns really pale in comparison to other industries. So in
• 49:08
  Speaker 9: Texas and Florida, they're taking steps, but they can do better,
• 49:11
  Speaker 9: and we're going to help them do it.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: What's the website for the Heartland Institute, James Taylor?
• 49:16
  Speaker 6: Heartland.org.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Heartland.org.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Jay. Keep me posted on this subject. I'm
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: glad you were available today on short notice. I appreciate it.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Stay tuned, America. I'll be right back on the Hugh
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Hewitt Show.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, America. I'm Hugh Hewitt.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: As promised, Danielle Pletka joins me. Danny is a senior
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Follow her on Exit
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Deep Plotka. Listen to the podcast she does with my
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: colleague and friend Mark Thiessen called What the Hell is
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Going On? Danny, I want to ask you, what the
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: hell is going on with Operation Economic Outcast?
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Will it work? Do you think it's going to bring
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: down the regime?
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: You know, look, Hugh, I really, I want it to
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: work because I think economic sanctions on Iran are the
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: right thing to do. I think Secondary sanctions, which is
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: what the Secretary of the Treasury is really focusing on.
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: In other words, just so folks understand, that's not sanctioning
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: the Iranians directly. That's sanctioning everybody who does business with them.
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: I think that's the right approach. But right now, the
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: Iranians are not selling oil at all. They're not selling
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: oil in this trade of Hormuz. And I have another
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: concern here as well, which is I don't know what
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: the aim of Operation D-Day, Economic Fury, actually is. And
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: that concerns me a little bit.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: There are reports on the web at this hour that
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: a variety of special forces in Iran have been arrayed
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: around a variety of squares, indications that maybe they're expecting trouble.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: There is no money in Iran. I mean, the real
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: is basically... down to 2,033,000 rials to the dollar. Do
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: you think they're worried about their own people just having
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: it again?
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: They're worried about that every minute of every single day,
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: all the time. But in January, they murdered 42,000 people.
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: And I think that.
• 51:15
  Speaker 6: While this is what.
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: I want to see, you know what my plan, and
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: mine and Mark Thiessen, who you mentioned, my podcast co-host,
• 51:23
  Speaker 5: what we want to see is we want to see
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: the United States take out the remaining targets, and we
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: want to see outside powers, whoever it is, us, the Israelis,
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: anyone who wants a piece of this, helping the Iranian
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: people stand up for themselves and overthrow this regime. And
• 51:40
  Speaker 5: that means funneling weapons to various parties inside Iran Maybe
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: that's happened. Certainly, you know, we don't know everything that's
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: going on, but maybe that's happened. Maybe that's what the
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: regime thinks is going on. That's what needs to happen.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: At this hour, crude oil is at $ 82 a barrel, $ 82.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: 41 a barrel. That's considerably less than I thought it
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: would be, Danny.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: Does that tell you that, in fact, the southern lane
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: hugging Oman's coast is open and oil is exiting the strait?
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Iran perhaps blinded or crippled and unable to threaten the captains?
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: So I looked at the passage through the Strait a
• 52:23
  Speaker 5: couple hours ago. There's almost nothing getting through. The reason
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: I think that the price of oil is not up
• 52:33
  Speaker 5: in the hysteria range is for the very simple reason
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: that people are getting oil out other ways than that
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: a lot of the price of oil on a day-to-day
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: basis is psychology and risk. It's not really about the
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: spot market or the cost of oil. And so I
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: think when people think about this, they also need to
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: understand that it's kind of the lingering threat that's hanging
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: out there that people are worrying about.
• 53:01
  Speaker 6: It's not the.
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: Actual question of supply and demand, at least not in
• 53:05
  Speaker 5: the same way it was a few months ago.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: So, yes, we have new pipelines and the UAE has
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: built one and Saudi Arabia may be building one. And
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: but Qatar is totally cut off and they're not squealing.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: So I know a lot of people don't like Qatar,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: but I'm watching what they say and do. And they're
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: not saying anything. The prime minister, Al Thani, not saying anything.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: They're not trying to get peace going. I think they're
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: getting their LNG out and they're just turning the transponders out.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Do you think I'm crazy?
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: I never think you're crazy. I think anything is possible,
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: and I think we miss a great deal. I think
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: these guys have trafficking lanes. I think they have routes that, frankly,
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: the regular trackers don't pay as much attention to. But
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: I am one of those people who doesn't trust the Qataris,
• 53:56
  Speaker 5: and I don't know whether you saw the Jerusalem Post
• 53:59
  Speaker 5: reported yesterday, early today— that once again, that the United
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: States has offered the Iranians sanctions relief if they just
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: open the Strait of Hormuz and stop threatening. So, you know,
• 54:15
  Speaker 5: that may also be a factor in why the Qataris
• 54:18
  Speaker 5: are laying low right now.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: All right, a quick 30-second question. We'll go to break
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: and come back with Danny Pletka. Mark Dubowitz and his
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: friends at FDD are warning about an October surprise. Iran
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: lashing out in every direction in an attempt to hurt
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Bibi Netanyahu at the polls. Do you
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: share that concern?
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: Sure. Of course I do. Mark had a great piece
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: in the Washington Post about this. We talked for a
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: long time about what their options are. They have so many.
• 54:44
  Speaker 5: A terrorist attack. We're looking at the 25th anniversary of 9-11.
• 54:48
  Speaker 5: A terrorist attack. Pull out of the NPT.
• 54:51
  Speaker 6: So much more.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back with Danny Pletka because we've got
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: to talk Canada and Russia. Yeah, it's a cold day
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: on the Hugh Hewitt Show. We're talking about our cold,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: cold neighbors.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: One friendly, one not so friendly. Stay tuned. Welcome back, America.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Danny Putka of the American Enterprise Institute is still with me. Danny,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I want to cover with you the President's trade war
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: with Canada. I have a different view on this. My
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: view is Canada is a free rider. I love Canada.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: My daughter-in-law is a Canadian-American. My in-laws are Canadian-Americans. I
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: love going to Canada. I love playing football. I mean,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: baseball and basketball against Canada. I got nothing against Canadians.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: They spent less than 1.2% of their GDP on defense
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: four years ago. They've climbed up to 2%. They've been
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: free riders for a decade. This makes me view the
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: trade war with a jaundiced eye about our Canadian friends'
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: objections because they're just riding along for free.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: Tell me why I'm wrong.
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: Well, I can agree with you that they're riding along
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: for free, although they would counter that they participate more
• 56:09
  Speaker 5: than almost every other nation in United Nations peacekeeping activities,
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: and that's part of their contribution, blah, blah, yada, yada.
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: I think the better argument here is that That's not
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: what this trade war is about from the perspective of
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: the president of the United States. If this were about
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: getting them to cough up more for their defense, I
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: would be applauding him right next to you. But this
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: is part of a series of tariff wars that are
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: frankly raising prices for Americans and not accomplishing the goals
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: that the president has, when he chooses to do so,
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: laid out, whether it's returning manufacturing or it's more investment
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: in the United States. And so, you know, I'm not
• 56:51
  Speaker 5: so fond of the Canadians, I confess to you, but
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: I don't think that this is the right way to
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: go about getting them to behave like better partners.
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: Well, I did see in some of the reporting, Danny,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: it only made it into like one out of four reports,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: China is an angle here. Carney went over to China
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: in January. He announced that they're doing big deals with China.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can't be with China and be our
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: best friend, can you? That's just not possible.
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: Well... I would, again, I would say, yeah, I would
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: love to think that that was the reason why, except
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: for the fact that we too are being excessively kind
• 57:30
  Speaker 5: to the Chinese. Carney's playing footsie with the Chinese is
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: a disgrace. The fact that he equates, you know, this
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: in a balance sheet and says, oh, well, if I'm
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: not going to be friends with the Democrats to my south,
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: I'm going to be friends with the communists to my east,
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: tells you everything you need to.
• 57:47
  Speaker 6: Know about Mark Carney.
• 57:48
  Speaker 5: But that being said, again, that's not what Donald Trump
• 57:51
  Speaker 5: tells us that this is about.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: It was below the fold. I will admit that.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure I get your assessment of
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: the Russo-Ukraine war, because the numbers I'm seeing on the
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: casualties and the threat of mobilization and the increase of
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Ukrainian lethality on hard targets in Ukraine and Putin's spraying
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: of missiles everywhere, What are we heading for, Dani, after
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: four years? What do you think is going on there?
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: Look, this is a conversation we needed to have so
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: long ago. We needed to be helping the Ukrainians. They
• 58:28
  Speaker 5: showed incredible resilience and innovation in developing their drones, but
• 58:34
  Speaker 5: they need missile defenses. And we don't have enough missile
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: defenses right now. And so we can't supply them. The
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: Europeans can't supply them. And so we're seeing a lot
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: more people die. Maybe that's what Ratcliffe was doing in Moscow.
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: What do you think he was doing there?
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: I have no idea. Not many of my listeners will know.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: The director of the CIA flew off to Russia two
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: days ago, and he's the quietest member of the cabinet, right?
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: I've heard people say he's the most effective member of
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: the cabinet. Nobody knows what John Ratcliffe is up to.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I guess that's what you want your spook to do, right?
• 59:09
  Speaker 5: I just hope that part of what he's doing is
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: trying to advance some sort of peace that isn't about
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: Russia eating up Ukraine, because, yeah, we are seeing increased lethality.
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: You're right. Just as the Ukrainians are really stepping up
• 59:23
  Speaker 5: their ability to kill Russians, Russian troops, The Russians are
• 59:27
  Speaker 5: wantonly taking out Ukrainian civilians, and this is unsustainable.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Except it's gone for four years. I hope it is unsustainable. Danny,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: I want to close by asking you about data centers.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I opened the hour talking with data centers. I'm a
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: big fan of data centers. I think it's crazy. I
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: think the Chinese propagandists are poisoning our information wells on
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: data centers, and they're extraordinarily beneficial to the communities in
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: which they are placed. Do you think that we're going
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: to allow Chinese communist propaganda to stop us from being
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: competitive in the AI race?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: You know, look, it takes two sides for a fight
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: like this. You are so right. And all of our
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: tech world has been so inept. You know, where we
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: look at the Chinese on TikTok and how they managed
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 5: to influence our politics and our political debates, and yet
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: our tech companies seem incapable of taking this fight back
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 5: to them. You're totally right. Data centers are incredible tax
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: boons to communities that can build schools and gyms and
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 5: lower taxes and help people. It's craziness to see how
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: people have changed their opinions based on propaganda.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: You know, you just hit the number one thing. Lower taxes.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: If every local government that had an AI application for
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: a data center in front of them said, okay, the
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: increment here on taxes to the local government is going
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: to be 50%, we're going to rebate that to property
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: tax payers. We're not going to use that. We're not
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: going to expand services. One jurisdiction gave $ 50, 000 bonuses to teachers.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Sound nice. Actually doesn't move the ball.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: If they used it to reduce taxes, do you think
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: people would stand up against and say we don't want
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: that data center?
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 5: Absolutely not. I mean, the idea that people would rather
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: have a coal plant than a data center is insanity.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 5: This is a fail on the part of people who
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 5: build these and who need them to give us the
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 5: very tools that we love using. I have to say
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: it again. It is a triumph of enemy propaganda.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Have you and Mark covered this yet on what the
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: hell is going on? Because we really do have to
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: start focusing our attention on it. We need data centers.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: We need them everywhere. They're good for communities. And we're
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: losing the propaganda war. Have you guys done it yet?
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: You're totally right.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: No, we haven't.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 6: And we need to.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: You're totally right.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 5: And I'm going to tell Mark that next time we talk,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: which is probably in about five minutes.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: And who is the AEI czar? We have a minute.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: Who runs like data center think tank central in America?
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: I had on the Heartland Institute, James Taylor today.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: Who else does this?
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: You know, it's a great question. And especially being a
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: national security person, I don't see it as much. And
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 5: I really don't feel like we're seeing a good argument.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 5: I think the free press has done a really good job.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: There's been some great stuff in National Review. But when
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 5: I look at the work that institutions like mine are doing,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: I don't think we're fighting on the front lines about
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 5: this as much as we need to. And part of
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 5: that is just because we're a lagging indicator of what's important.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: You know, the.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 5: Chinese are better at this than we are.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: They are, but we're better once we're engaged.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: And so I'm counting on the marketplace of ideas to
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: beat back the idiocy against data centers. Danny Pletka, follower
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: on X at D Pletka, follower work at AEI. Listen
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: to the podcast she does with Mark Thiessen. What the
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: hell is going on?