Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - TACO Trump Backs Down From Greenland Threats + Minneapolis Is Under SIEGE By ICE & DHS w/ Mayor Jacob Frey

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Full Episode - TACO Trump Backs Down From Greenland Threats + Minneapolis Is Under SIEGE By ICE & DHS w/ Mayor Jacob Frey · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: They're Happy Thursday, or should I call it Taco Thursday
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  Speaker 1: For those of you who were a bit nervous about
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  Speaker 1: what Trump is up to, the Taco Trump showed up
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  Speaker 1: in Davos, and we can joke all we want about
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  Speaker 1: the idea that Trump always chickens out. The fact of
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  Speaker 1: the matter is he mostly always chickens out, and the
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  Speaker 1: problem is we don't know when he is or isn't.
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  Speaker 1: And the question is what do you take to the Bank.
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  Speaker 1: It is interesting one of there are two things that
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  Speaker 1: have happened in the last twenty four hours that easily
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  Speaker 1: sway Donald Trump. One is the markets being the one
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  Speaker 1: guard rail that has made him change course. The markets
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  Speaker 1: collapsed on Tuesday due to fears of this trade war
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  Speaker 1: with Europe, the trade deal by the way, that you
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  Speaker 1: already suspended the ratification process of the larger deal that
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  Speaker 1: was being negotiated, or one thought was already negotiated, just
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  Speaker 1: waiting for the eyes to be dotted in the tees
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  Speaker 1: to be crossed. But you had the massive move in
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  Speaker 1: the markets. And then you have the fact that Donald
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  Speaker 1: Trump doesn't want to let people down who he's speaking
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  Speaker 1: to in person. And so if you're in Davos and
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  Speaker 1: you heard Donald Trump say I'm not using force and
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  Speaker 1: you know I'm dropping all the tariffs, well that's because
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  Speaker 1: he wants to please the people who have his ear
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: in the moment. And it all will depend on who
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  Speaker 1: has his ear at a given moment, at a given time,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: and sometimes actually staff, when they're trying to manage his
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: crazy do try to put him within places or with
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  Speaker 1: groups of people that they know will be a positive
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: influence on him. Versus a negative influence on him, right,
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  Speaker 1: Like he's sort of in a weird way assimilates to
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  Speaker 1: whatever the moment is. And he realized everything he was
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  Speaker 1: doing was unpopular in Davos, so he wanted to lower
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  Speaker 1: the temperature and then everybody would be happy with him,
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  Speaker 1: because ultimately, he knows these people don't like him, so
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  Speaker 1: the only way to make them like him is to
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  Speaker 1: at least make them feel relief. So in that sense,
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  Speaker 1: I think he made everybody at Davos feel relief, and
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  Speaker 1: the European leaders can exhale a bit. But I will
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  Speaker 1: tell you this, and it's why I spend so much
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  Speaker 1: time on it in the previous episode, the Mark Carney
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  Speaker 1: speech to Davos, really, I do think, is one that
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  Speaker 1: isn't you know. It's not like he's going to retract
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  Speaker 1: that sentiment. And Canada is already pursuing a go at
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  Speaker 1: a loan strategy because they have no choice, and that's
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  Speaker 1: the way they view this, and that's the way they
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  Speaker 1: believe this. And I think, ultimately, you know, Donald Trump's
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  Speaker 1: decision to pull back his rhetoric on Greenland, pull back
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: his threats on Greenland, doesn't mean he hasn't done with
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  Speaker 1: that it. You know, it sounds like, you know, one
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  Speaker 1: of the few European whisperers that can move Trump a
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  Speaker 1: little bit is the current NATO head of NATO Secretary
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  Speaker 1: General Mark Root, and he seemed to whatever he said
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: to Trump said we've got a great deal, and he
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: seems to imply it's a it. It's interesting as always,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: you got to see the details. But it may be
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: that whatever it is, it's a it's it's just simply
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: granting the US the ability to do everything that they
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  Speaker 1: already had the ability to do. But you know, kind
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  Speaker 1: of like NAFTA, if you just change the name or
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  Speaker 1: he gets to sign the agreement, then it looks like
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  Speaker 1: he did something. So sometimes that gambit works. We've got
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  Speaker 1: a great deal for you, and it's the same deal,
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  Speaker 1: but you get to sign it, mister president. Right, that's
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  Speaker 1: what the US MCA. It is just NAFTA three point zero,
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  Speaker 1: except they change the name and gets it. It goes
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  Speaker 1: to And this is where you know, he is both
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  Speaker 1: an easy mark and a frustrating mark. Right, He's an
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  Speaker 1: easy mark if you flatter him, and you you you know,
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  Speaker 1: offer him a trinket or offer him naming rights. Or
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  Speaker 1: offer him you will nobody's ever done this before type
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  Speaker 1: of mindset, so uh, I can't wait to see the
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  Speaker 1: details here. But this has the the whiff of they're
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  Speaker 1: just cutting and pasting the exact same treaty that gave
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  Speaker 1: the United States everything that they already had in their
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  Speaker 1: abilities on greenlent. But this time Donald Trump signs the agreement,
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  Speaker 1: so therefore it's a new agreement. That's the most likely
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  Speaker 1: place we're headed there, but it is a longer you know,
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  Speaker 1: you know who the biggest group of exhalers are here
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  Speaker 1: are Senate Republicans because they're scared, you know what, in
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  Speaker 1: having to exercise any sort of check on him. And
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  Speaker 1: you know which is why Donald Trump is not backed
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  Speaker 1: off on making sure he's going to endorse against anybody
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  Speaker 1: that did him wrong. Right. That's why Bill Casts is
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  Speaker 1: on the wrong end of a Trumpet endorsement in the
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  Speaker 1: Louisiana Senate race. That's to send a message to the
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  Speaker 1: other fifty two Republican elected US senators that at any
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  Speaker 1: moment in time, he wants all of them to feel
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  Speaker 1: as if they constantly owe him their political careers. Some
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  Speaker 1: of them actually do right, some of them wouldn't be
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  Speaker 1: United States senators wouldn't be I mean Tommy Tupperville, Right,
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  Speaker 1: here's a guy that you would have no political career
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  Speaker 1: without Donald Trump. And so that's the kind of loyalty
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  Speaker 1: he's trying to instill so that they will do his bidding.
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  Speaker 1: And so that's why in some ways he's got to
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  Speaker 1: follow through on his threats to these other Republicans, no
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  Speaker 1: matter if it weakens the Republican Party in the long term,
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  Speaker 1: weakens their ability to be a government, to be seen
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  Speaker 1: as a governing force if he wants to what he
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  Speaker 1: really wants, which is loyalty here, So like with anything
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  Speaker 1: with Trump, right, he escalates, he de escalates, but he
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  Speaker 1: hasn't necessarily given up that ambition. And there's all sorts
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  Speaker 1: of factors driving this ambition there, you know, ultimately leaving
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  Speaker 1: a mark. He is desperate to be historically relevant. Well, congratulations,
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  Speaker 1: you'res he's going to be historically relevant. Whether he's historically
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  Speaker 1: relevant for the reasons he wants to be or if
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  Speaker 1: he's historically relevant for other reasons is the open question here.
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  Speaker 1: But he is that clearly is one of the drivers here.
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  Speaker 1: And look, Greenland looks so big on a map, and
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  Speaker 1: he wants to be able to you know, project strength,
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  Speaker 1: right he he he sees some of this stuff as
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  Speaker 1: symbolic and he needs that symbol in some ways to
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  Speaker 1: make them to appease him on these things. But so
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  Speaker 1: he's back down from this. But the longer term damage
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  Speaker 1: has been done because of what we're already witnessing with Canada,
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  Speaker 1: what we're already witnessing with the EU. They're going to
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  Speaker 1: do their own trade deals now, They're not going to
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  Speaker 1: worry about the United States. And some of you may say, well,
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  Speaker 1: great Europe relied on the United States too much. There's
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  Speaker 1: some in Europe that believe Europe relied on the United
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  Speaker 1: States too much. I think in fifty years we're going
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  Speaker 1: to look back and the EU is going to be
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  Speaker 1: a real competitor on a number of things. And then
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  Speaker 1: we're going to wonder, boy, why did we prop up?
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  Speaker 1: You know, we made the EU fend for itself and
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  Speaker 1: suddenly the EU is eating our lunch type of thing. Right,
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  Speaker 1: if that happens in fifty years, but I think we
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  Speaker 1: may make Europe great again. We may end up forcing
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  Speaker 1: the EU to have a strong military. And I don't
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  Speaker 1: think he cares whether NATO survives or not, And as
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  Speaker 1: long as Donald Trump's calling the shots, I don't think
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  Speaker 1: NATO is a relevant organization because he is not going
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  Speaker 1: to I don't think he will abide by the terms
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  Speaker 1: of the treaty if it's not something that he's leading
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  Speaker 1: the charge on. If Estonia wants the US help in
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  Speaker 1: dealing with Russia, I think Estonia realizes it's going to
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  Speaker 1: have to talk to other NATO members. The United States
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  Speaker 1: might not be the one that steps up. And that's
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  Speaker 1: still a long term concern. So while we have a
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  Speaker 1: been appeased short term, and some of you conspiracy theorists
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: out there, you know, maybe wondering, boy, who is it
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: that gets rich off of this stock market guard rail
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: stuff that takes place? Right Trump says something, Kaka Maimi
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  Speaker 1: says something stupid, the markets react quickly. But there's always
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  Speaker 1: you know, people that are making money off of this stuff,
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  Speaker 1: and essentially by trading the crazy, right, by trading off
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: the crazy because maybe they have some inside information on
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: that stuff. So you may end up quewing some of
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: the conspiracy there because some of you may have seen
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: your four to one case. You know, we still lost
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: more money than we got back collectively in the stock
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: market on a one day note. But there's always somebody
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: making money when you see these wild swings, and it's
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: usually insiders that are making that kind of money. But
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: here we are. That's, you know, I guess pulling back
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: on this crisis. We will now see a little bit
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: of focus, probably on some other issues a bit. But
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  Speaker 1: I don't think this changes the trajectory of whether other
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: countries want to do business with the United States. It
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: is he is making it very difficult to sign any
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  Speaker 1: deal with the United States because he doesn't necessarily want
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  Speaker 1: to abide by any agreement or be pinned down by
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: any agreement. But the big lesson still is the guardrail
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  Speaker 1: that works, and the one that works the most consistently
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  Speaker 1: is the stock market, for better or for worse. So
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: who knows, maybe the stock market there'll be some way
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: that the stock market reacts to one of these ice
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: raids in a way that gets his attention to realize
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: he's got a problem there. And speaking of that issue,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: my guest today is the mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Fry
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: hopped on for about thirty minutes with me on Wednesday,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: and we talked about everything about the current situation there,
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  Speaker 1: the so called sanctuary city status, whether cooperation, what that means,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: what it doesn't mean, and whether there's any sort of
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  Speaker 1: dscal that can take place, the status of the investigation
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: in the state and local level into the death of
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Renee Good, as well as whether he is asked for
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  Speaker 1: the governor to call up the National Guard. So it
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  Speaker 1: is amazing when you think about it, that there are
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  Speaker 1: five times as many ICE agents in Minneapolis as there
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: are our local law enforcement. That strikes as excessive. And
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: it does feel as if Minneapolis is being targeted for
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: politics rather than being targeted because it is high in
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  Speaker 1: the list. Right. You know, if this is a real
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: concern where the largest amount of undocumented immigrants are in
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  Speaker 1: the country, it is not Minneapolis. It is nowhere close
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to Minneapolis. This feels like this is about optics, and
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: this is about trying to weapony anger or skepticism about
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Somali Americans. So we get into that conversation, I think
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  Speaker 1: it's worth a listen, so I hope you will do that.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: But before we get to Jacob Fry, you know, Trump's
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: been sort of putting us through the ringer, and I
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm still concerned that all of his actions,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: these unilateral actions, are going to trigger you know, political
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: physics is a bitch because for every action, there is
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: going to be an equal and opposite reaction. And that
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: how concern should be that he stumbles stumbles us into
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: some sort of war, because trade wars turn into military
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: conflicts quicker than people realize. And it's still this is
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: still to me a top concern. And that's why my
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: friend I and Bremmer put the United States and in
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: some ways, Donald Trump's leadership in the United States as
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: the top risk for the globe in twenty twenty six.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I think these first twenty two days of the year
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: have proven that that is a pretty prophetic decision by
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: putting the United States and Donald Trump's leadership is the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: top risk for twenty twenty six. But hey, I'm a
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: political junkie at heart, which means and I know some
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: of you got to know me more as a campaign nerd,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: whether it was at the Hotline or whether it was
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: the work I did at NBC. And we've had a
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: lot of we've had a lot of action. I devoted
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: my top five list to what's going on in Senate
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: races and sort of where do the Democrats' chances stand?
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I think Democrats, I think, you know, it's funny. It's
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: one of those issues with the where if you look
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: at the political landscape from sixty thousand feet, you're like, boy,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: a big wave is brewing. This is how this is
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: one of those times where the out party's going to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: win everything. They're going to win the House in the Senate.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: When you look at it race by race, I can't
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: get there, right, I have a hard time getting to
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the net four seat pickup four Democrats to pick up
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: the Senate. And yet if you pull the lens back,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: you're like, oh wow, this national political environment says X.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: So look, a lot of this is going to depend
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: on candidate recruitment. Some of this is going to depend
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: on what kind of primary results take place. I mean,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I think in the same way that the so called
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: red wave that never happened in twenty twenty two, part
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: of that was a Donald Trump issue, right. He endorsed
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: unelectable candidates in a lot of places, including in Pennsylvania.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: And.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: What could have been a good Republican Knight turned into
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: basically barely acceptable Knights, and say narrowly got the House,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: but they couldn't, you know, but they couldn't get everything.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's a possibility with the Democrats,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: that they have primaries in Texas and Michigan and in Minnesota,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: and I want to talk about it here in Minnesota,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: where if the either wrong nominee or the atmosphere of
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: the primary creates a situation where no matter whoever comes
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: out of the primary, it's a divided party and they
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: have a hard time uniting. That could easily hold the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: party back in its ability to win general elections because
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: simply they either had a messy primary or the wrong
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: candidate got the nomination. And that brings me to Minnesota
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: that I think the most interesting New Canada the last
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours if you're a sports fan, is Michelle Tafoya.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: She's a former NBC sports reporter. Was on the original
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I think Sunday Night football team there when it was
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Michaels and Madden. I think even before collins Worth, it
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: was Michelle tafoyah And she's been thinking about ever since
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: she left esp left NBC and then I think she
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: worked at ESPN as well. She's been hinting at the
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: idea that she was open to running for office. She's been,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: she is. She is certainly certainly expressed sort of more
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: on the on the conservative media side of things, skeptical
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: of sort of mainstream media a bit, and skeptical of
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: that more on the culture. Less on policy. We've not
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I've not heard a lot from her own policy. I've
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: heard more on the woke vibe and that aspect of
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: conservative politics. So I will tell you that in Minnesota,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: to win, you you got to also be a policy
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: nerd to the Minnesota voter. Minnesota turns out in big numbers,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: number one, number two. It's just a very it's just
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: a it's a very educated electorate, and so you, no, Matt,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: You've got to show up knowing your stuff. But they're
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: very open to outsiders. And I think in any other campaign, yere,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I think Michelle Tafoya would be we'd be talking about
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Minnesota Senate as a hirrant. I just think in this
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: current national environment, she's swimming uphill. Minnesota is a.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: State that.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Is a lean blue state that wants to be a
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: swing state, and it's certainly been, you know, and Republicans
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: have been. It's a little bit of Lucy with the football.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: You know, they've occasionally won a governor's race, they occasionally
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: win a Senate race, but you know, it's been Richard
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Nixon's the last presidential candidate to carry the state in
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. Even in the forty nine state landslide
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: of Ronald Reagan, Minnesota Walter Mondale's home state was the
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: loan holdout for Ronald Reagan in eighty f for so
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Nixon McGovern was the last time Minnesota voted voted Republicans. So,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: but there's a pretty messy primary in the Minnesota Senate
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: race between the Lieutenant governor, Peggy Flanagan, who's been endorsed
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: on the progressive side of things. You've got Angie Craig,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: who is I think the preference of sort of the
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: establishment wing of the party, the Schumer wing of the party.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: And you know, we'll see how that plays out. Primaries
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: in Minnesota have tended to favor base candidates both left
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: and right. They've historically had convention processes that have that
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: have actually hamstrung Republicans in the past because their convention
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: process will nominate somebody that's too conservative to win. But
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: they do both you can go through an endorsement process
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: through the state party, and then you can also end
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: up on the ballot. And you know, when you look
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: at the candidates Tim Peleni, Norm Coleman who have won
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: statewide races, they have been sort of center somewhere, not
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: on every issue, but seen as close to the center
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: on something. Norm Coleman was definitely more centrist on social issues.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: I think Tim Plenny on economic issues he was the
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: original sort of he was. There was something called a
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Walmart I think he was starting Walmart Conservatism. He was
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: sort of talking about this before Donald Trump came along,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: talking about, Hey, we've got to we've got to change
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: our talking about the Republican Party, change our connections to
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: corporate America because there's a working voter here is culturally
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: conservative who doesn't feel like we're looking out for them economically.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: So the point being is conventional conservative Republican doesn't win
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: in Minnesota. You got to be a little bit different somewhere.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to be curious to see there. But look,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: she's got high name ID and in a neutral political environment,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I think we'd be talking about this as a really
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: you know, hey, Republicans have put Minnesota in play. I'm
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: a bit skeptical, especially with what's going on right now
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: with the political environment there that it's polarized things Ice
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: is very unpopular. How this has been done is very unpopular.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: So we'll see. But I think she's banking on when
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: you see her announcement video, I think she's banking on
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: unpopularity of Tim Wall's unpopularity of the state leadership that
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: she hopes can help her in there. But it's a look.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Minnesota is one of those it sort of I've talked about.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: There are states that Democrats are hoping to move from
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: red to purple, like Texas or a Kansas or maybe
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: in Iowa again, and then there are states that Republicans
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: are trying to get from blue to purple, right, and
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: that's Minnesota. New Mexico's on that list. I think they're gonna,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: you know, in the post Trump era, Virginia and Colorado
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: may get put back on that list. So I'd put
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Minnesota in there as sort of you know, in the
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: same way. I still think the Republicans got to be
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: in a net positive national environment to then do well
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: in Minnesota. But there's got to be some real money
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: and if the Democratic primary gets messy, we'll see. But
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: she's got to go up against the candidate that got
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the nomination last time, which was a former basketball player
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: named Royce White, who is a little bit out there.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: In fact, his candidacy was so out there in twenty
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: twenty four when he was challenging Amyklobashar that National Republicans
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: didn't want to get near him, didn't want to touch him.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: But he's you know, he's he kind of has played
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the MAGA influencer game a little bit.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: And.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: You know, he's got his own deep, it may not
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: be broad, but deep support among some parts of the
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Minnesota conservative movement. And he's still running. But Tafoya's got
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the endorsement of all the establishment. I would assume Trump
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: comes in. He loves stars, right, especially that are adjacent
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: to sports. So I'm sure she'll get the Trump endorsement
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: at some point, which should get him there. So in general,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: look the Senate battlefield right now. You know every cycle
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: that eventually expands somewhere in the ten to twelve seat arena, right,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: You've got we know, we know North Carolina, Maine, those
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: are no matter what, those are going to be close
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: unless Susan Collins chooses not to run. It's interesting. I've
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: made a big deal about the fact that we haven't
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: gotten to the filing deadline. It's not lost on me
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that the the big Republican super pac that John Thune,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: the Senate Republican leader controls, went public to say, hey,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: look at all this money we're putting together to defend Maine.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost like we're going to go public
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: to rear their do everything they can to reassure her
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: that they're in because guess what if she doesn't run,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Maine is off the board. So there's a part of
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: me that views the big pr announcement about their dedication
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: of nearly fifty million dollars that they're ready to spend
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: already of outside money to help Susan Collins is as
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: much about trying to make sure she files. Because in
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: this political environment, I go back, I look at her numbers,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: it would not shock me if she chose to say,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm out. I can't do this, you know,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: especially if just as she gets close, somehow Trump pulls
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: the rug out from under her. And that's the part
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: of the seat. It's tough when you want to run
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: your own campaign when you know you probably aren't able
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: to run your own campaign. This episode of the Chuck
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• 27:33
  Speaker 1: dot com slash chuck. Speaking of Trump, Julia let Low,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: I've talked about the Cassidy race in in Louisiana, Julia
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: let Low officially announce and I have to say, and
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: a few things jumped out at me about both the
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: announcement and then the immediate non announcement from the NRSC
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and the Senate Republican LEADERSHI team. The first thing is
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: what Julia Letlow said in her announcement video, which included
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the following line, a state as conservative as ours, we
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have to wonder how our senator will vote when
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: the pressure is on. Huh. This is basically saying we
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have a senator think for themselves. We should know
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: that whatever the president wants, is this how this senator
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: is going to vote. She didn't quite say it, but
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: she kind of said it, right. It's her way of
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: trying to remind Republican voters. Hey, Bill Cassidy wasn't there
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: for Trump when Trump needed him. Now, look, Louisiana's not
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: a swing state. There is no you know, Democrats did
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: not get John Bell Edwards. That was what Schumer was
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: trying to do. The former governor, the last Democrat to
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: be able to show that he could win statewide. Was
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: trying to get him to consider maybe he's trying one
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: more time to do this, but with no fear of
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: a Democratic challenge here. The Senate Republican Leadership Fund right
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: SLF has said they're not getting involved, So they're not
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: going to help Bill Cassidy. Right, they're going They're they're
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: doing everything they can to help John Cornyn in his primary.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: They have said they are not going to get involved
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: in helping Bill Cassidy. What kind of message does that
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: send to other Senate Republicans. I was stunned when I
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: saw that that right now, I mean, this is what
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: punch Bowl reported the Republican leaders have been quiet since
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Trump's endorsement, and that the NSC Senate battlefield doesn't include
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Louisiana and SLF isn't expected to get involved in the race.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: That is a totally Bill Cassidy, You're on your own.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: We are cutting you loose, Which brings me to a
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: decision that I think he's he claims he's going to
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: stay in the race. We'll see. I think if he
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: wants to win this Senate seat, there's only one path
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: to winning Senate seat, and it's to run as an independent.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: It is to pull a Lisa Murkowski and just say hey,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I ain't running in the primary, but I want all
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: voters because the state, you know, again, this used to
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: be Louisiana used to hold very small d democratic primary elections.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Everybody voted in the primary. Top two if nobody received
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: fifty percent, would meet in a runoff. If you will,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: it was basically an all party general election. They changed
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the rules specifically to make sure Cassidy had to face
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Republicans only in a primary. This was all done since
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: he voted to convict Trump after January sixth. You know,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: it was the same thing that was essentially orchestrated to
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: do with Lisa Murkowski. And I'll go ahead and run
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: as a ride in. And I've always said, you know,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: you know how how untouchable she is m u r Kowski.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: She won as a ride in, and her last name's Murkowski.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: It won't smith, right, that's how politically powerful she is
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: in her own in the state of Alaska. So we'll
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: see what happens there. There's been no hints I've like,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: I've told you the only hints I've ever gotten about
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Cassidy being intrigued about running as independent is when he
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: flirted a bit with the no Labels crowd when they
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: were looking for a presidential candidate in twenty four I
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: think he took a call. I don't necessarily think he
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: reached out to ask questions. I think he just accepted
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: an outreach and certainly heard some people out. But if
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of Senate Republican incumbents I think
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: who quietly hope Cassidy doesn't back down and that he
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: doesn't just allow himself to be the the Washington Generals
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: to the Harlem Globe trouters in a primary, but instead
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: really do that. And it's look, his only chance is
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: if he can expand the electorate. And the only way
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: he can expand the voting electorate is if he gets
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: out of the of the Republican primary. So we shall see.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: There a few other campaign notes. I think our friend
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Paul Finebaum, mister Alabama SEC promo, the unofficial promoter of
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: SEC football for ESPN, I kid Paul if he's still
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: considering running for the US Senate in Alabama, he just
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: he's in trouble because Donald Trump has now picked the candidate.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: So with Donald Trump's decision to endorse Barry Moore, the
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: congressman in that primary, even though a recent poll actually
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: had him in second, not in first, I you know,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: I wonder if that if that changes. I think fine
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Baum thought that again a little bit of a sports celebrity,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: that that might get the President's attention. Maybe he did
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: do some outreach and they weren't interested. It was, you know,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: in that in that brief period where fine Bomb was
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: trying to establish his credentials as a conservative Republican, he
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: said he claimed he voted for Trump and then he
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: was a Trump supporter, So clearly he was putting up
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: the trial balloon to see if he would get any
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: sort of feedback the other way. We'll find out filing
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: deadline soon, so we'll get there. But it's interesting that
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Trump's already endorsed. Fine Bomb's not even being tested anymore.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: So I know he hasn't officially announced that he's out
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: because calshe still has his has the You can still
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: trade on whether fine bamb is going to run or not.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: But if you just.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Look at the inaction, fine Baum himself had said he
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: would wait till after the college football playoff and his
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: ESPN duties were done for this season before fully contemplating this,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: So we'll see if that has changed at all. Two
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: other notes that I've been wanting to get to but haven't.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Twelve states applied to be first in the nation for
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: the Democrats in twenty twenty eight, and I thought I'd
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: quickly go through them. Out of the West, it was
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Nevada and New Mexico out of the South, Georgia, North Carolina,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: South Carolina, Tennessee, in Virginia, out of the midwest, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: and out of the east, New Hampshire and Delaware all
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: want to be part of the first four, the early
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: early process to get into the early window where you
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: would get a variety of candidates. Here, look, it's not
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: looking good for Iowa. As many of you know, I'm
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: a huge proponent that Iowa of all of the potential
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: first in the nation states that want to get back
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: that they ought to just go back to Iowa, that Iowa.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Last time I checked, Iowa was the launching pad for
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama. So I've always thought the dumbest argument against
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Iowa is that Iowa's too white, and considering all of
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the problems the Democratic Party has in reaching out to
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: rural America, because what rural America is white. So if
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: you are immediately sending the message to oh, you know,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: we don't want a rural state that's too white, well
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: you're you're basically just sent a message to all of
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: rural America outside of the rural blacks in the South
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: and rural Hispanics in the Southwest, that you're not interested
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: in their vote, And I just think it's a it's
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: a it's been a terrible way this has been messaged.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: The Time story that had it, it's like just a
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: they have they have got to recalibrate. Uh, if you
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: say you don't want caucus systems, say that, but you
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: better come up with a better reason than Iowa's just
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: too white. Because if you're a political party and you've
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: decided that, you know, you can't participate in certain regions
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: because of demographic makeup, then you're just conceding defeat and
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: you don't want to be a national political party. So look,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: do I think Iowa's uphill? I do, even though the
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: irony is that Iowa. You know, if you're progressive, if
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for Iowa, Bernie Sanders wouldn't be relevant. If
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: you're a Barack Obama fan, if it wasn't for Iowa,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama might not have been President of the United States.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Iowa's been pretty good to the Democratic Party. Without Iowa,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't have, you know, had a Jimmy Carter. So
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: it's a head scratcher to me, the anger at Iowa
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: that's there. I think it's just a if you want
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: my opinion, there's a lot of former Clinton staffers ias
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: never been good to the Clintons. Right when Bill Clinton
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: ran in ninety two, an Iowa Democrat named Tom Harkin
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: was running, so he skipped Iowa. When Hillary Clinton, obviously
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: her candidacy got up ended in two thousand and eight
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: because she lost Iowa and then she almost you know,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: it all depends on who you talk to in twenty sixteen,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: did she win Iowa lose Iowa? Fact is, we're not
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure. But again Iowa put Bernie Sanders
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: on the map. So I've always thought the residual anger
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: at Iowa is due to UH staffers and strategists who
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: were all with who were all working for Clinton, who
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: also are our big have a lot of influence inside
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: the d n C, who are just mad that Iowa
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: didn't go the way they wanted to go. But it's
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: been surprising to me that some of the Obama era
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: folks haven't fought harder to defend Iowa or to promote Iowa.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: But if you're not going to do Iowa, you're going
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: to need a rural state to be first, And you know,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: you start to look at this list, New Mexico jumps
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: out at me as I think a fascinating potential. First
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: in the nation, there's a there's a I do think
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: there's actually some ideological diversity. Rural New Mexico definitely has
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: a red lean to it. The second congressional district, which
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: is the most rural part rural district of the three districts,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: there is a swing district, and so yeah, I think
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: there's something. You know, My only concern about New Mexico's
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: first is that, you know, if you can and win Albuquerque,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: you can win the state. Right. I don't think it's
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: ever good, you know. I think that's the knock on
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Nevada that ultimately, if you can win Vegas, you win
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: the you win the caucuses. You don't want to. I
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: don't know if that's a good test, right. You know,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: the way the Iowa system works is you can't just
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: win to Moine and win the state. Trust me, Hillary
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Clinton tried it twice and it didn't work, and that's
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: what I think made it a bit more of a
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: better test. But that jumps out at me. I think
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: the fact that Georgia, it's interesting that Georgia North Carolina
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: and Virginia. Right, these are two swing states and one
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: former swing state that is now leaning blue. I think
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: the downside of Virginia's Northern Virginia right, too many professional
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: voters in that it might get a little insidery and
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: all of that. So that probably is a knock on Virginia.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: And North Carolina might simply be too expensive, although I
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: like the diverse city the geographic diversity of North Carolina.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: That could be intriguing and both it has demographic diversity,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: geographic diversity, socioeconomic diversity. But it's a big state. And
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: do you want a big state a top ten state? Right?
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: I think that's the knock on Michigan, you know, the
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: first four being you know, frankly five congressional districts or
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: less strikes me as sort of what should be the
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: cap because the whole idea of having a small state
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: go first is that it means a guy like Howard
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Dean in two thousand and four, who didn't have a
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: national fundraising base could raise enough money to be competitive
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: on Iowa. If he could be competitive Iowa, then that
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: could serve as a launching pad. So having small states
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: right the barrier to entry is simply lower and allows
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: a former mayor of South Bend to try to jump
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: in and things like that. Where if you have a Michigan,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: a North Carolina, a Georgia, one of the growing one
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: of the larger states or growing states, big super pac
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: money can just overwhelm right. I'm not saying big money
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter in Iowa, but in some ways you don't.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: It isn't. It doesn't cinch the game the way it
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: might in a larger state there. So look, I'd love
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: to hear from you. What what what states? You know,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: as I've said, I'm I'm this is where I dork out.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: I always thought that we had a pretty good I
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: thought the first three were perfect. I you know, I
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: don't want to get my friend John Ralston Matt. You
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: know I would. If you're asking me which western small
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: state should go first. Should it be Nevada, Should it
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: be Oregon? Should it be New Mexico. Maybe you could
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: make an argument for Utah. I like New Mexico the best.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: I think it. You want to have a Hispanic popular,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: you know, a state with a large Hispanic population. That
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: was one of the one of the rationales for Nevada.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: But there's also you know, it's not just sort of
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: a two city you know, it's a two county state
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: in Nevada essentially, and that's less so in New Mexico.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: It's still you know, it's still Albuquerque is still a
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: big chunk, but there's some there. I think it might
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: be an interesting Western test. I'm sorry to see Kansas
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: not put there, not apply here. I think Kansas could
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: have been an interesting first in the nation. I think
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a growing state. And if I had been,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: see this is the way. If I were the running
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: a political party, I would also want to use my
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: first in the nation calendar as a way to grow
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: in a state. Right, I've always believed that Iowa being
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: first in the nation made it a swing state that
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: naturally demographically Iowa without it, without being first in the nation,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: without the national attention, you know, it's going to lean
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: in the direction of where most rural voters will lean
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: on a given time. Right, it was populous Democrat at
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: the time that it can become populis Republican. But there's
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: something about putting a national spotlight on a state that
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: actually has voters behave more like swing voters. And I
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: think you saw that with Iowa being in the national
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: spotlight for that sort of thirty to forty year period
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: between sort of seventy six and twenty sixteen, that really
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: did sort of change the nature of the voter in
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Iowa and made them realize, hey, they took their vote
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: a little extra seriously and really ended up hearing hearing
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: about politics in stereo in a way that many many
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: state residents don't. So if I were the DNC, I'd
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: be trying to figure out in my calendar, is this
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: what is a first in the nation state where having
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of Democrats run around and organize will actually
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: help you in the future. Well, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska all
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: fall into that category. There are potentially states Democrats could
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: improve their standard if you had a lot of if
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: you had a first, if it was one of the
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: first four, you'd have a lot more organizing take place,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: You'd have a lot more resources being put into the state,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: and lo and behold, you might have a more competitive
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: landscape in midterm elections in those states. So that would
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: be one way I think about this. And then the South,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: that's where I would I you know, I'm sorry to
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: see Mississippi not apply for something like this. I'd be
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: looking at a Mississippi or a South Carolina on that
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: front as a way to do that. Of course, one
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: could argue push back on me and say, well, South
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Carolina has been in the first four and it's not
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: like Democrats have improved their standing in South Carolina. It'd
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: be a fair tenner point. But in general, getting national
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Democrats to spend more time in some of these red
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: leaning states I think would help them. And it should
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: be the same mindset for Republicans. You know, if I
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: were them and they're trying to get Minnesota, I'd be
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: leaning in on maybe get Minnesota your first four if
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: they want to try to improve I think the reason
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: they've done better in Nevada is that Nevada is in
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: there first for and if New Mexico gets part of
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: the first four and Republican. If I were Republicans, I
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: jump on that in a heartbeat to help their presidential
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: candidates talk to Latino voters better. So it all depends.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: If you're a party leader and you're trying to build
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: your party, I think you should use your primary calendar
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: as a way to grow your party. I have a
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: feeling that the DNC may use their primary calendar just
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: simply to try to figure out what's the best way
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: to find the most electable nominee, which is also a
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: very viable rationale. Don't get me wrong, but that's trading
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: sort of long term future for short term ism. That
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: would be the one thing there. All right, I've gone
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: on long enough. Let me sneak at a break. Here.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: There's my little political update again. I'm going to try
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: to make thursdays. I said that before. A lot of
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: times news gets in the way, but most Thursdays I
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: will try to, especially as the campaign midterm campaigns keeps
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: kicking up, dig in a little bit in the more
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: state based political stories on that front. So with that,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: sneaking a break, when we come back to the mayor
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: of Minneapolis, Jack and Fry. Having good life insurance is
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: incredibly important. I know from personal experience. I was sixteen
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: when my father passed away. We didn't have any money.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: He didn't leave us in the best shape. My mother,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: single mother, now widow, myself sixteen trying to figure out
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: how am I going to pay for college? And lo
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: and behold, my dad had one life insurance policy that
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: we found wasn't a lot, but it was important at
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: the time, and it's why I was able to go
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: to college. Little did he know how important that would
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: be in that moment. Well, guess what. That's why I
• 45:56
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  Speaker 1: but trust me, life insurance is something you should really
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: think about it, especially if you've got a growing family. Well,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: joining me now is the mayor of Minneapolis. It's Jacob Prime,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: mister mayor. Appreciate you taking a few minutes with me.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, just we get a few you know.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: One of the things that why I appreciate the longer
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: form is that we can put some context. So just
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: in a quick summary, because a lot of people don't
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: know what is the what powers individual mayors have. Right
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: in some cities it's a strong mayor. Some cities, it's
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: a weak mayor. Some cities it's up to the mayor
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: who the police chief is. Others it is not. So
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: give me the quick structure on law enforcement in your
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: authority over law enforcement. How much it's you, how much
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: it's the city council.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, we began officially shifting our structure
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: of government to what is known as a strong mayor system.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: I just call it a regular mayor system of Innneapolis
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: and Saint Paul and Duluth and New York City. Chicago
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: is a strong mayor's system where the executive runs the
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: day to day operations and the council is like the Congress.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Day laws or more of a legislature, also participating in
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: the executive functions.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right. So the police, for instance, report up
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: through the commissioner.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Ultimately, so you appoint the police commissioner or does the
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: city council have a saying that.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: I appoint the Commissioner of Safety and the police of
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: chief the chief of police. Our council then confirms the appointment.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Gotcha? So I say this because when it comes to okay,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: so let's take the so called phrasing of sanctuary city, right,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: And I know you at first it was an executive order.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Now it's been codified in the city law. And I
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: guess where what is the line between city and state?
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: And then what is the line between city and federal
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: in this sanctuary.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Well, you're asking all the right questions. So we have
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: had what is called a separation ordinance in place well
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: before my time, right with.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: That order on some twenty plus years, right, it's been
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: quite some and.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: It's virtually been the same throughout that entire time period.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: The council lamented it a little bit recently, but it's
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: virtually the same thing, and the basis of it is
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: this is that our police officers, our officials at the
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: City of Minneapolis, do not coordinate with any federal agency
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: around immigration enforcement work. So, in other words, we will
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: not work with ICE or any other federal agency that
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: has been deputized around immigration enforcement work. We do work
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: with them around general safety, crime prevention, driving down, homicides,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And we also won't ask people
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: at to their documentation status. And so when we haven't
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: asked somebody their documentation status, we haven't gathered any information.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: And because we haven't gathered any information, when Donald Trump
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: or anybody else asks us for all of our information,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: our answer is quite simple, which is we don't have
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: it right.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: What is the line of when you think somebody's immigration
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: status matters when you have a interaction with a resident
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: of your city for.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Purposes of safety, It doesn't for purposes of calling nine
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: to one one, it doesn't. You know, I want our
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: police officers spending their limited and valuable time keeping people safe,
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: driving down murders, arresting carjackers, doing all the basic stuff
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: that any police officer would need to do on a
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: daily basis. I don't want them spending a single second
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: hunting down some father who just dropped his kids off
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: at daycares about to go work a twelve hour shift
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: who happens to be from Ecuador. Like that guy makes
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: our city a better place as far as you know,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: what is the line. Look, I don't know if you
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: committed a murder or you shot a gun. I don't
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: care where you're from. I don't care who your parents were.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: You know there are consequences for that. But I don't
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: get the sense of spending limited resources on immigration.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: If ICE comes to the city of Minneapolis and says,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: we believe you have a criminal in custody, will you
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: release that criminal to us if they have proof that
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: this this individual is a criminal, what is the policy
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: of the police force at that point.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: So there's parts where we are involved and there's parts
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: where we are not arresting that criminal. We are involved,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: and we will work with federal agencies to arrest that criminal. Now,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: remember the whole concept of deportation is on the civil side.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: But we will work with federal agencies to a guy
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: that has done bad dates, murders, carjackings, whatever it might be.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: We at the city, however, don't control the jail. So
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: the whole concept of.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: The interesting that is that is the Canneban County and
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: now he.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: Runs the jail. That is the jail. And then the state,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: who has provided quite a bit of information recently about
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: how they actually do work with Immigration and ICE to
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: provide you know, to you know, not let murderers back
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: on the street. That's through the state.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Like any situation, I assume you tried diplomacy first, meaning
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: you know, you knew a new administration was coming in
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: and all this stuff. What were those conversations like before
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: this escalated to what it has become today. Walk me
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: through your interactions you had with DHS or with ICE,
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: or with any part of the federal government before it
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: got to where we're what you're having to deal with
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: in the moment.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: With this administration, it was a pretty quick zero to
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: one hundred, not as far as this operation goes, but
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: as the general mentality of what they were doing. And look,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: you always expect different ideologies and values with a new administration,
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: especially a new administration that is of a different party,
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: But this is something entirely different even from the first
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Trump administration. We did not see this kind of conduct
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: to this degree with the first Trump administration. And I
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: think it was probably twenty or thirty days or something
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: like that, maybe even less after Trump was sworn into
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: this term. I got a letter on my desk from
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: I believe the Office of Management Budget that quite literally
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: said that all grants that were provided to the City
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: of Minneapolis totally somewhere in the range of seventy million
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: dollars would be cut off. And the basic lever that
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: they were trying to pull was, you will lose this
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: money if you don't get rid of all diversity work
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: and stop the separation.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Which I want to put up, which federal governments have
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: tried to do with cities and states for decades. Right
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: is always the first threat is usually financial.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Right it is, And there's a ton of legal dictum
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: on this particular issue of how much can you know
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: the federal government influence or coerce cities based on some
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: alternate policy that has nothing to do with that right,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: And so they've taken a pretty extreme line on how
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: they're doing it.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: So you now this wasn't a case of I mean,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: have you had a meeting with Christino and said, hey,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: what are you trying to truly accomplish here, that's in
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: the interest of public safety, we'd like to help. Have you.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Have you been able to have that conversation with the
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Secretary of d J.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: I have not had that conversation because the way they're
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: framing this up, sadly is not about I don't even
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: think it's about immigration. I think this is political retribution.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: I think do you feel like it's all about George Floyd.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know George Floyd. I think it's about Tim Walls.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: It's it's you know, the vice presidential candidate ran against
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump, and I think there's a I think perhaps
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump is unhappy that for three elections in a row,
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: Minnesota did not support his candidacy. I believe that he's
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: trying to make a point here.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: And well, when you look at the data, it's not
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: like it's not as if Minneapolis stands out compared to Chicago, Denver,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: New York. We could go through the cities here. So
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: it does feel as if you're you I think you
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: have said this that you feel as if you're a
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: petri dish political petritish right now.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: You know, it feels a little bit as if there
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: were multiple things that were occurring in rapid succession that
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: don't necessarily have anything to do with one another, you
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: know what I mean. It almost feels like you remember
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: you like post nine to eleven. I remember, you know
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: you reporting on that, you know, nine to eleven, And
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: then you had going after the Taliban. Then it was
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: looking at Afghanistan. Suddenly we're in Iraq again, and so
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: it was these things that, like if you weren't paying
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of attention, were seemingly linked, but they weren't
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: at all. And so we had an issue in our
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: state around fraud and look, it's real, it is a
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: real issue. And then there were these racist attacks on
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: entire communities, most notably are Somali community based on that,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: and then from there it was let's I believe and
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: this is not based on personal information. I speculate that
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: somebody from relatively high up in the Trump administration said,
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: go to Minneapolis, go toport a bunch of Somalis, and
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: whoever gave that directive didn't get the necessary pushback, and
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: then suddenly you got a bunch of ICE agents. They're
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: in Minneapolis trying to deport Somalis, only to find out
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: they're from here. They're American citizens. They got here on
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: a plane, they're here legally.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: When were the first Somalian settle settlements. It was in
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: the mid to late nineties.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, I would say, men, we.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: Were accepting refugees from a war torn country. This was
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: a country. So this is what America has done for decades,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: that's right, refugees from a war torn country.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they've been here longer than I've been here. They're
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: very Minneapolis and at this point, you know, multiple generations
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: they have been and so it's it's it's not like
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: there's a location where you can go to get a
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: bunch of undocumented Somalis. Those locations don't exist because again,
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: for the most part, they're citizens.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: So basically, you have this fraud issue that really has
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with undocumented immigrants.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Right right, It's a completely separate issue.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: And you know, I mean the irony is whatever fraud
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: was committed was likely committed by American citizens, right.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Likely? Yeah, Yeah, I mean I don't break down, but yes,
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: you know, and when somebody commits fraud, You investigate, you prosecute,
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: you charge, you get a conviction, and yeah, you put
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: the person in jail as an individual. You don't hold
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: an entire community accountable. You hold the person accountable as
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: an individual. It's just a very basic American value in
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: law enforcement value, and it's shocking and concerning that we're
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: getting so far straight from that.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm old enough to remember when part of the
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: anti woke mindset was to not was to not try
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: to attack an entire group of people for one person, right,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I thought that was one of the complaints. Yeah, I
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: mean that was coming from the right. But here, here
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: we are. Let me ask about dealing with the safety
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: of your community. Nine to one one response times have
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: gotten worse in the last few months. Do you believe
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: that's directly the result of the chaos that you believe
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: ICE is creating in your city.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: I'm certain that's part of it. With anything law enforcement related,
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: there's always more than one causal factor. But look, we
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: got six hundred cops in the city. We have fewer
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: officers per capita than virtually any major city in the country.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Are you short of cops? I mean, and an ideal world,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: do you wish you had more. Yes, yeah, I mean
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: I've yet to meet a mayor that is not frustrated
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: by this. I'm pretty friendly with maryol Bowser, mayor of DC,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: and she's literally, I swear almost wearing a sign, you know,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: call please apply.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: You know, I wear the same sign, and I would argue,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: I would argue we need them even more, just for
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: on a per capita basis, we are very low. So
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: we hemorrhaged officers following twenty two and we are at
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: the point where we're netting positive. More and more officers
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: are coming on, but we don't have enough. Now, juxtapose
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: that six hundred number versus the three or four thousand
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: or whatever it is, ICE agents and border control. There
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: is a massive imbalance here, and our police officers have
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: got to do the day to day work of being
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: a cop. And you know, on top of that, we've
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: got all of these calls coming in, all of these
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: you know, ICE instigated events that are taking place that
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: requires some form of our police officers to do even
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: more work on top.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: T So what happened? So if somebody calls in and says, hey,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I'm being harassed, I'm I'm a Minneapolis resident. I'm an
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: American citizen and I feel as if I'm being harassed
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: by these ICE agents. What are your what's your police
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: force supposed to do?
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: Well? It all depends on the nature of the call.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Of course, we respond to calls regarding kidnappings, and so
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: if somebody says my son is getting kidnapped, we go.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: If there is a protest taking place in an ambulance
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: needs to get in to help somebody, we escort the
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: ambulance in. If property damage is taking place, we deal
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: with the property damage. And yes, we intervene if there
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: is some form of misconduct or unlawful behavior that is
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: part of our officer's jobs. And obviously this gets very
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: difficult when you're also trying to determine whether the conduct
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: that is taking place is within the roles and responsibilities
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: provided delegated to ICE other agencies, or if it's outside
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: that scope of a criminal nature. This is a very
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: tenuous and difficult place for officers to be.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: And let me guess most of your police officers don't
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: travel with legal counsel.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: Now do they believe it or not? They don't.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I I just so what is
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: I mean? I get that each circumstance is unique. But
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: you know what, what advice are your police officers getting
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: and dealing with these situations. Their their goal is to
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: keep the peace, their goal to keep pizza, de escalate
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: whatever it is. They're just trying to de escalate.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, they try to de escalate the situation. They try
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: to keep the peace. They do not and will not
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: cooperate with ICE or any federal agency on immigration enforcement work.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: That's not our job, that's not what we do. And yeah,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: they're trying to keep people from getting hurt or injured.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: And the way that ICE is conducting this, I'm telling
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: you it's I've never seen anything like this before.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Do you think this is designed to provoke a response?
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Perhaps, I don't. I mean, look, I don't. I'm
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: not in the mind of either these federal agents nor
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: this administration. I think a lot of what is happening
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: is designed to create some form of response. I mean,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: we don't have that many undocumented immigrants here. What they're
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: doing is not based on safety. We have partnered with
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: them based on safety. This seems to me like, you know,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: they are trying to whip people up into a frenzy.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: And I mean, thankfully, and for the vast majority of
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: people in our city and the tens of thousands of protesters,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: they're not taking de bait. They're not countering Donald Trump's
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: chaos with our own brand of chaos here. And you
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: know that's that seems like what they're looking to do.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: And they've got fifteen hundred militarized troops that are presently
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: on standby.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: What legal avenues do you think you have to sort
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: of at least limit ICE's ability to roam the city.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: I mean this sort of five to one ratio, right
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: being outnumbered by Ice and Border patrol versus your local police.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: That seems excessive. Is there a court? Is there a
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: legal avenue, a court order you could get this says?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: You know, this is this is outside the bounds of
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: what's necessary. This is an excessive et cetera. Is there
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: is there any legal avenue here?
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: There is a legal avenue. I am hopeful that we
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: will succeed in the litigation that is presently underway. We
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: have a judge. I think we're working towards a hearing.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: Dat I was hoping that it was going to be
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: this Friday, and I'm optimistic.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: And what do you want that judge to do. What's
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: the specific ask?
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: The specific I mean, there's several asks within the complaint itself,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: but the basic one is to stop the operation, pure
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: and simple. Yes, to stop the operation that is presently
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: taking place, which is the huge influx of federal agents.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, you know, ICE has existed now for decades.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Immigration enforcement exists. We're we're not talking about like just
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: ICE doing ICE stuff. We're talking about constitutional violations which
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: have gone way beyond anything I could imagine it. This
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: is targeting of Somali and Latino people.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: This is.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is actually happening. Do you look Somali?
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Do you look Latino? Dragging people off the street, give
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: me your passport or else we're detaining you. That is
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: actually happening.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: You know, mister, this is the hardest thing to convey.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: I think these days, especially in the world of deep fakes,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: nothing you believe, nothing online feels like it's on the
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: up and up. Obviously, we live we've been sort of
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: poisoned by these algorithms and all of that. I find
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: this to be the hardest thing to convey to people
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: who are not seeing it firsthand. And I imagine you
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: feel this frustration as well. There was a Brooklyn Park
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: police chief when viral yesterday with some comments he made
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: about what has happened to off duty officers who just
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: don't happen to look like you and me? What kind
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: of experiences have you heard on that front? And if
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: you talk to any of these off duty cops, have
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: they shared their experiences with ice with you?
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've heard countless instances very similar, almost identical to
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: what you heard from that. I believe it was Brooklyn Park, Yeah,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: police chief.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: For those of you that are in Brooklyn Park, I
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: believe that's where Jesse Ventura was mayor.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken. Back in the day, I often
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: get the who if it's from Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn Center,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: which are right next to eather But I do.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Think you were one of them. Was where Jesse Ventur
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: got to start, right? Yeah? For those outside of Minnesota
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: keeping score at home, anyway, go ahead, sorry, I am all.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: I am, after all a political Juggie pot page.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: I am impressed. Yes, No, Minnesota has gone a long
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: a long history of interesting and fascinating and politicians.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite states, you know, because of that,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: I love the characters and personalities and what I use
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: what Hubert Humphrey once called the politics of joy that
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: was Minnesota.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: He's of Minneapolis.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: Actually not a lot of joy these days, but oh
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: my gosh.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the kind of dynamic that we're hearing
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: about constantly. And apart from, of course, the unlawfully detaining
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: people to the United States citizens, apart from the gimme
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: your passport and your identification based on nothing more than
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: you being a being a person of color. I mean
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: we've seen we've seen our own city employees in city uniforms,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: by the way, in city vests. You know, there'll be
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: four public works employees out there filling potholes and the
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: three that are brown or black get id and the
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: one guy's white. Doesn't mean you can't do that. Uh,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: they're filling potholes. This ain't America. The other thing that
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: we're seeing is just just really dumb, just dumb anti
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: safety conduct taking place.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: Do you think get they were better trained, this might
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: be going better.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, better trained, a better direction, better moral authority,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: some some form of moral compass. You know, the over
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: on Third Avenue, which is the street that we are
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: right off, right now it's a pretty significant street. They detained,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: they ice detain. Somebody yanked him out of the car,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: kept the car in drive. There's nobody in the car.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: Car is just rolling down the street with nobody in it.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, that could have hit my parents, you know,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: that could have injured somebody. We've got other instances where
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: they detained the person and then suddenly you got a
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: stray dog and the dog is just roaming around the city.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: It's cold out right now. We got a call in,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: you know, the other day from a five year old
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: kid who was speaking Spanish saying, I don't know where
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: my parents are. They haven't come home. I mean, this
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: is the kind of heartbreaking stuff that we're hearing about
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: right now. And again, it's not about catching criminals. I'm
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: just sick of this narrative. I'll take the most the
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: simplest position that I have maybe ever taken as mayor,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: which is in minneapols were anti murder in Minneapolis, were
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: anti rape. If you want to catch a murder or rapist,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: we're on board. Let's do it. That's not what this
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: is about.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Though. How concerned are you that residents are going to
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: take matters into their own hands.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, of course that is a concern, but for
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: the most part, I mean I'm inspired. I have been
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: watching people go source their local food bank and get
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: people groceries and escorting people on their walk or their
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: drive to work. I mean, you have tens of thousands
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: of people showing the world exactly who Minneapolis is and
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: what we stand for and our core convictions and values.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: And by the way, people from different ideological perspectives as well,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: all saying, you know what, I love our neighbor, we
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: stand by them, we support our local business or local restaurants.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's something that is truly magnificent. I've never
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: been more proud to be from Minneapolis.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to the decision not to
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: let Ice use city property. I understand the symbolic nature
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: of that. It hasn't deterred Ice from arguably causing even
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: more chaos by getting using private property, being disruptive using
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: federal property. Is that policy workable?
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's a fair question to ask. I mean,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: we want to make it clear that we will not
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: cooperate with them and allow them to do this really
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: unconstitutional conduct with our resources, and that includes our parking lots. Look,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: is it like some big monumental measure. No, no, I'm
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: certainly not arguing that. But it was a tool that
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: we had and it's a tool that we're going to use.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: Do you need more resources from the state?
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: I mean always we're always asking for sure.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: On this particular issue. I mean, i mean, look, this
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: seems like a far fetch question. But and I and
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I've I've not wanted to go down
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: this road because of the of the implications of it.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: But if you thought about asking the governor to call
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: up the National Guard to help deal with ice in
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: your community.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: Uh, we have talked with the governor about calling up
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: the National Guard and what that would look like and
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: where they would where and how they would be utilized. Importantly,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: the governor has the authority over the National Guard, not
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: the president. The governor. Governor has the authority of when, where,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: how and if to implement the National Guard, and he has.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: Now he has authority over the National Guard within the
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: state of Minnesota. Correct, Yes, right, I mean there is
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: a like he couldn't tell this Minnesota National Guard go
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: into Wisconsin.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Correct, I should have been a distinction.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, no, no, no, Well, I just I was just
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: doing the sort of for the list everybody.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: Else, and he has called them up to have them
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: on standby on the number of occasions all ready. And
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: that's a very important move one because we've got the
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: additional resources if in fact we need them. We haven't.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: But what it also does is show Governor Wallas has
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: got it. You know, he's on And I think that's
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: a very important point.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: What do you have an understanding what the subpoena was
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: about that you received? I know it wasn't you personally,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: it was I guess the Was it the City of
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: Minneapolis or the office of the mayor.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: That got in the office of the mayor?
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: And what was subpoena?
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, all sorts of stuff. I think generally these
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: subpoena processes, especially through Grand jurior're supposed to be secret,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: but they're clearly trying to make a big public fiasco
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: out of it. I don't have the thing in front
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: of me. I mean, what I'll say is it should
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: be deeply concerning to everyone that the Department of Justice
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: is being weaponized to go after political leaders that disagree
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: with the president. I mean, the thing in essence that
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: I would be getting targeted for is doing one of
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: my most core and critical jobs that I have as mayor,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: and that's to speak on behalf of my constituents. It's frivolous.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: I almost don't like saying that because it's so obvious.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: And then this kind of this is problematic for everybody.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: We should all be very well.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: Look, I've often said a bit in jest that if
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: the FBI came knocking on my door and showed up
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: with some sort of charge, I wouldn't believe him. I'd
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: tell them, I don't think you're the FBI. I don't
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: believe you. I mean, I say, there, you know, being
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: a little like I said, it's a tad bit tongue
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: in cheap, but you know, the level of credibility that
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: the federal law enforcement agencies have with a large share
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: of the public is quite low right now. I mean,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: do you trust the the current Department of Justice?
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: No? No, I mean, And that's a crazy it's not
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: a crazy thing to say right now, but it should be.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: It should be. My mentality. My mentality right throughout my
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: life has been of a whole lot of faith and
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: trust in not just the federal government, but specifically the
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: Department of Justice of these kind of legal supposedly quasi
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: independent entities that are able to enforce and carry out
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: the law. I mean. And part of that faith stems
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: from the fact that you've got these long term bureaucrats.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: Bureaucrats often have a negative connotation to them, but they
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: are these people that span beyond administration. They were there
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: for Bush and Clinton, they were there for Obama.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: The career is I wish we wouldn't call them bureaucrats.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: Their career is, which frankly, you know, was something that
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: was actually a civil service reform that goes back if
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: you I think people got a mini education on it,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: if they binged to death by lightning on Netflix recently.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: It was sort of the hallmark of the Garfield, Chester
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Arthur presidencies was this to create this nonpartisan government worker protection.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: And there's so much value to that one because you've
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: got this institutional knowledge and memory that spans between your
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: administrations into the conviction and the loyalty is not to
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: some guy, it's to America. And you talk to so
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: many of these people and they're like, they're very much
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: sure they vote, but they are very much postpartisan I mean,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: and they believe in command and control and the order
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: that they bring. And they also very much believe in
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: the Constitution, and that so many of these career would
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: you call them careerists, uh, these professionals, Yeah, that so
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: many of them have said that's it, We've had enough
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: work out, we can't do this anymore. Both I give
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: them a lot of credit for, you know, leaving their
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: job because there's not going to do this horrible thing.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: And at the same time, it's it's really problematic because
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: what does that leave you with. It leaves you with.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: I don'm a loyalists who are just going to do
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: whatever the president tells you to.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: Let me. I know you're busy. I want to get
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: you out of here on this, which is given the
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: experience now you're feeling of this weaponized federal government, right.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: I look, it looks like you've been targeted. This looks
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: like it's an attempt to spark a response. This was
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: a this was a specific let's go to here, there's
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: a blue city activist we can that won't be popular
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: with centrist You know, you can see the sort of
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: political design in the heads of these folks. Do you
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: think people didn't stand up to Trump enough? Has there
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: been too much appeasement? Do you think do you have
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: any advice or told you so's to eddy democratic leaders
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: when it comes to Trump that you'd like to express
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: or do you feel as if that, hey, guess what
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: you know? Failure of imagination is basically the only sin
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: people have committed when it comes to Donald Trump.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: Failure of imagination, perhaps failure of believing that he's going
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: to do the things that he says he's going to do.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: Well, we're used to politicians not doing that, right, so
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: we just assume he's full of it. And the thing is,
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: he is full of it until he's not full.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: Of it, right. I mean, some of these horrific things
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: he has told people that he was going to do them,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: And you know, I could probably count myself in with
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: those that should have believed that he was going to
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: do some of this crazy stuff, because at least initially
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: back in twenty sixteen, I kind of shoved it off, like,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: oh my god, come on, that's ridiculous. But now we're
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: in a second term here and he's carrying some of
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: it out and it's terrifying, and it's reached a whole
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: new level than anything that we saw in that first term.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: Well, do you think there's any end in sight to
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: this or is it it's going to your last is
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: the court the sort of the last place you can go.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: Well, we are accessing every single channel that we have. Yes,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: we are litigating preemptively. We are litigating in response to
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: what's taking place. I am very optimistic that we're going
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: to win. And at the same time, we are also
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: accessing other channels in the federal government, in the White
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: House to try to get this to change, you know,
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: pushing out to business leaders and CEOs to have them
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: utilize their connections.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: This has been bad politics for the Republicans. This has
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: not been good for them. Just if you just look
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: at it, it's been bad politics. So one would assume
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: that they would change. By the way, are you going
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: to be able to do a real investigation on other
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: Renee Good was murdered?
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: We need to do a real investigation. The investigations should
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: run through the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which is the
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: state based agency that has done these investigations on use
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: of force repeatedly. They've run investigations that have come to
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: both charging decisions and a lack of charge. This is
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: not some radical organization. This is largely you know, lawyers
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: and police officers that are part of this group, and
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: that's where it needs to go.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: Has there been an investigation opened and they just can't
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: get cooperation or you're waiting to see if you get
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: cooperation before you can open an investigation.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: There, well, the federal government has My understanding is that
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: they have blocked out the BCA from getting critical and
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: important evidence that we have allowed them to run this
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: investigation side by side with the FBI, sure and the
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: PIE side.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: It would have been a normal way to do business
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: back in the normal way.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: Very normal way. I mean it has it has done
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: that before. That's the way we have operated for But
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: but and you know, barring that, yeah, I would like
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: to see it do the investigation themselves, and of course
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: there will be support.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: How much of your job is dominated by this current crisis, I.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: Mean much of it obviously, But we're you know, we're
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: going to keep providing important constituent services. We do the
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: work of the city. You know, city governments were the
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: ones that don't shut down, So we keep rolling. We're
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: not quitting. We're not going to get intimidated by what's
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: going on, mister mayor.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the time. Like I said, I know you're busy,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: so when going forty five minute or one hour podcast
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: is a lot to ask. So I appreciate you giving.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: Me thirty honored to be here with you. I be
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: watching a lot as a kid, so I've watched me
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: for a long time.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: Well, i appreciate you making me feel a little that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, thanks,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: all right, thank you, mister Beck. Well you enjoyed that interview.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: And again, just for timestamp purposes, we spoke about lunchtime
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: on Wednesday, January twenty first in that interview, so when
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: you're you know, just just so you know what was
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: just so you could put that correctly in your timeline.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: So with that, let's dive into some questions.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: Ask Chuck.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: Then I'm going to start on the issue of Greenland.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: And let me start here with Chase from Little Rock,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: who is hashtag's ash Chuck five timer Club. I love it,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: and he writes this, he said, and he included a
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: letter he got from Senator Cotton. He says, Chuck, I'm
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: forwarding you the response I received from Senator Tom Cotton.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: I had written to him objecting to Trump's provocations towards
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: Greenland and our NATO allies. His reply doesn't address NATO
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: or the issue of provoking sovereign ally at all. Instead,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: he pivots into a strange history lesson about shipping lanes
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: in the US purchase of the Virgin Islands from Denmark.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: Why are so many senators unwilling to challenge Trump even
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: on matters of foreign policy? Whether stakes are so high?
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. That's a very specific answer that he gave.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: Let me read you. You included the letter, so I'm
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: going to read it, and it says, Dear Chase, thank
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: you for contacting me about President Trump's interest in acquiring
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: Greenland from Denmark. It's good to hear from you as always,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: as if I'm wondering if you guys are frequent frequent
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: do frequent correspondence, And he adds this, I've long believed
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: that a Greenland closely aligned with the United States and
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: closed off to Russian in China is a vital national interest.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: Period I'm going to annotate the letter as we go.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: That's already the case. Greenland is closely aligned with the
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: United States, and it is closed off to Russian in China.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: This view is consistent with a long history of American statesmen,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: including President Truman, who in the nineteen forties advocated for
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: purchasing the territory. Fact check true. I also have publicly
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: advocated for the purchase of Greenland since twenty nineteen, which
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: I explained at the time in a New York Times
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: O bet wouldn't be the first time that we've acquired
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: territory from Denmark either. President Wilson bought the Danish West
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: Indies more than a century ago. We now know them
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: today as the US Virgin Islands. Greenland is very attractive
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: to Russian China for several reasons. Its location in the Arctic,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: its importance to our missile defense systems, it's access to
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: the crucial sea routes, and its wealth of rare earth
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: minerals necessary for our defense industry, among others. China's attempted
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: to gain influence in the territory, for example, by trying
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: to acquire an old US naval base. Similarly, Russian presence
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: in the Arctic continues to grow and present a challenge
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: to our nation. We must not allow our adversaries to
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: exercise control in such a crucial region. I understand the
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: concern among some people about President Trump's comments about Greenland,
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: but I would observe that he never rules out any
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: option related to any foreign policy issue, a common practice
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: among past presidents too. I'm simply pleased to see the
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: administration officials are engaging on this issue with proper concern
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: for our national security. Look, I think he gave you
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: a thoughtful answer, Chase, and I do think he believes
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: what he wrote in there. I think it's interesting what
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: he wrote and what he didn't. Right, he's basically saying,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: don't believe everything you hear from Trump, but he's trying
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: to do it in the most polite way possible, which
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: is kind of how Cotton has operated. You're right, I think. Look,
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: Tom Cotton is the senator from Arkansas, so in his
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: voters I think like Donald Trump more than they like
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: Tom Cotton. One thing Tom Cotton is is self aware,
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: and I think he enjoys being a US Senator. I
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: think he'd like to run for president someday, so I
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: don't think he wants to be on the outside of
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: wherever the Republican Party is today. So he is consistently
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: I think more so than even Lindsay Graham tried to
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: find ways to look authentically supportive of Trump rather than
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: coming across frankly like Lindsay Graham, which is a bit
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: inauthentic in how he is, you know, sort of shifted
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: his alliances over the years when it comes to Trump.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: But I do want to pick out that you know,
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: China has attempted, but China didn't do it because of
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: our relationship with Denmark and because of our relationship with Greenland,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: and because of NATO. That's why it didn't happen. So
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: it it is everything he says in here is true,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: except it's already the case, right, We already have that
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: kind of near autonomy on Greenland on that front. So yes,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: it's true. With the melting, with the melting ice thanks
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: to climate change, the Arctic is being navigated and there
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: is a real fight for it. And I think it's
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: you know in this, you know, supremacy in the Arctic.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: This is one of the great one of the great
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: powers issues. I hope the United States plays the role
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: of Our job is to make sure no country dominates
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: the Arctics so that there are open shipping lanes and
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: maybe this becomes an easier way to move goods and services.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe there are some, but you know, the right now
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: it feels like a land grab that everybody is the
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: way they're talking about it, rather than protecting it from
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: nefarious adversaries. So anyway, I I'm very impressed with the
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: tone of the letter. It is. It is to me
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: very thoughtful, nothing that would get him in political trouble
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: with the base of the Republican Party, and it certainly
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: comes across us as something that that that Cotton would
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: be for. So in that sense, but I you know,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: I think I think cotton situation is different than others,
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: and I do think he's in a state that is
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: probably much more pro I think Cotton is a bit
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: more of an institutionalist than he's going to let on
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: because of the Arkansas constituency. Next question, also on Greenland.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: The situation with Greenland seems like a prime example of
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: Trump being driven by personal pathologies. I know, foreign governments
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: build psychological profiles of leaders. Do US political teams ever
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: work with psychologists in this way? Especially given how a
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: typical Trump is. Everyone says he can't be treated like
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: a traditional politician, Yet most responses still seem to ignore
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: the underlying patterns and his behavior. Darren in San Francisco. Actually, Darren,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to be very careful here. I know
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: an extraordinarily prominent leader in the Republican Party who, after
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump got elected, was given by a prominent supporter
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: of this person a detailed paper on narcissistic personality disorder,
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: and from the gift go said, look, just absorb this
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: and understand this is who you're dealing with, and use methods.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: And in some ways, I this is where I actually,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: I do think these countries have done their psychological profiles.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: I do think they're all using if you look at
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: you know, how to how to manage somebody with narcissistic
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: personality disorder. So for instance, some of the suggestions and
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: how do you deal with somebody with narcissistic personality disorder? Now,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: I would argue that you know that there's been a
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: lot more and there's one recommendation that says use the
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: gray Rock method, meaning be as uninteresting as a gray
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: sont don't be emotion don't react emotionally to something that
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: they're demanding or declaring. And if you notice, that's probably
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: the one recommendation everybody does too much because I think
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: it comes across as appeasement. He hears it when somebody says, oh,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: that's interesting, which is a way to sort of be
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: non committal in your answer. He may hear then what
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: he wants to hear on that stuff. You know, look
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: at One of the other recommendations is communicate via biff,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: meaning keep it brief, informative, firm, and friendly when you're
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: corresponding with said individuals, particularly in writing, which is keep
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: it short, stick to the facts, set a clear conclusion
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: or request, and maintain a neutral, polite tone to avoid
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: giving them a reason to claim you are the aggressor.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: So the point being is, when you go and look
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: up how to deal with with somebody who has narcissistic
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: personality disorder, what are some recommendations? Go take a look,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: because in many ways I think it actually answers your question.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: The answer is, Darren, yes, governments do this. Yes, they've
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: done it with him. And if you see how certain
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at a Claudia Shinbaum, right, she never
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: takes the bait right away, right, and she is you know,
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: somebody who's very much she's a scientist or she is
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: going to do that kind of research. She is going
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: to be somebody who accepts the premise of a psychological profile.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: We know that's the way Putin operates. We know that's
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: the way. I think quite a few governments do that.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: Certainly the Chinese do this, And so if you look,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: I actually think that quite a few countries are handling
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: him as if they have been briefed by somebody by saying,
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: how do you handle somebody with narcissistic personality disorder? So
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know whether that's good or bad. It just is.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: I think it's probably been more bad than good because
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: it's come across as appeasement, and when he gets appeased,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: he takes that as a green light, not a yellow light.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: Next question comes from Zach and he writes Trump's student
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: loan policy hasn't gotten much attention, but repayment is starting,
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: is restarting soon, possibly at higher rates, and there still
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: seems to be no real plan. Sure loans should be
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: paid back, but why not make payments more reasonable, lower
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: college costs, or expand forgiveness and credit programs. We're underinvesting
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: at every level of education, from K to twelve to
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: graduate school. Take the doctor shortage for example. How can
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: people feel that need when med school can leave them
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: five hundred thousand in debt. Look, I completely agree, and
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: I think that I think this is going to become
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: a more explain issue because look, I've got a graduating
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: senior this year and finding a job her and her peers.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: This is not an easy environment. There's a lot of
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: them already panicking. I'm trying to keep my daughter from
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: panicking on this. But you know, these are for people
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: looking for jobs in their field, right, even if it's
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: entry level jobs, and so that's it's been hard. Part
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: of it is AI. Part of it is sort of
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: economic paralysis right now because of the international situation that
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: Trump has created. We have a lot of businesses are
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: afraid to do too much investment in one way or
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: the other because nobody's quite sure which way the wind's blowing.
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: So all of it has led to what feels like
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: an employment pullback, right. A little bit of its AI
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: contributed a little bit as the current sort of weak economy,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: unstable international environment, mostly due to the American to US leadership.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: That's a toxic mix here, and you're going to think
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: have some angry young voters, and it should trigger some
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: policy ideas like the ones you're suggesting, whether it's you know,
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: I wish and this is where I thought Biden. Biden's
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: student loan policy was just terrible. There should have been
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: some sort of national service, uh contribution in exchange for
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: for getting some of your daddy raised. You know that
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: it's a you know, a contribution to the public good
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: in some form or another. Volunteering, maybe it's a public
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: works job. Maybe it's getting a medical education because we
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: need more not just doctor's physician assistants for your nurses,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: et cetera. There's all sorts of ways that it could
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: have been done in a way, and I think, frankly
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: because of the of of what we're going to see,
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: which is rising you unemployment, especially with folks under the
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: age of thirty, that you know, the better presidential candidates
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty eight will likely be thinking this way
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: and making proposals on this. I know Wes Moore, if
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: he runs for president, he's a big advocate of national service.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: He has started basically a pilot program that he'd like
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: to take national in the state of Maryland. And it
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: is also tuition assistance and debt forgiveness is a part
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: of it. So I think I suspect that this will
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: this will become more prominent more as the presidential primary
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: campaign begins less so I think in the midterm elections.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: All right, next question comes from a school one of
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: the four the four c's I guess is Pomona anyway?
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: Ben from Colorado here originally from California. I was surprised
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: to hear John Slavint Suggestsnia could become a swing state
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: based on recent voter trends and pandemic migration. That feels
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: unlikely to me. Am I missing something? Also explained to
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: cancel high speed rail seems short sighted given its economic
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: impact on the Central Valley and continued public support. Thanks
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: and go Broncos both Denver and cal Poly Pomona. Well,
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: my producer Lauren is happy to hear a go Broncos.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: He's a big time Bronco fan. It is the Broncos
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: still being in the playoffs, is you know, getting in
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: the way of our timing on certain tapics here? But
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: I kid, yeah, I think that's I never rule out
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: any state swinging a bit, but California seems I mean
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: the California Republican brand is terrible, right, Their current national
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: Republican brand does not play in California. If the Republican
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: Party's brand were more Arnold Schwarzenegger, unless Donald Trump, and yeah,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: California could get swinging, right, you know, But Arnold Swarzenegger
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: was no ordinary Republican. If the Republican brand became more centrist,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: was seen as sort of the party of Silicon Valley
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: and business in a way, but sort of wasn't antagonistic
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: on immigration, and wasn't you know, I mean, Silicon Valley
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be half as powerful as it was without immigration,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: so it would be a natural place for a pro
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: business party to go. Except nationally, this Republican party's pretty
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: anti immigrant. So I think you're right right now. But
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: you know, look, I think any time you have a
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: one party state, there's always a vacuum somewhere that's going
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: to get filled. I think it's still more likely we'll
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: get an independent kind of like you know, I've always
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: viewed Schwarzenegger as kind of a quasi independent more than
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: he was a Republican, And he probably would have won
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: whether he ran as an eye or an not next
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: to his name, Shoot, he might have been able to
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: win as a D next to his name. I still
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: think if California doesn't elect a Democrat statewide in a
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: race over the next ten years, it's because somebody won
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: as an I I think, not because somebody won as R.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: That's my opinion, and I may be proven wrong on
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: that front. Look, the high speed railed situation in California.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: I agree with you about the economic impact for the
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: Central Valley, but it has been a symbol of It
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: is a negative symbol I think for the left, and
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: the inability goes it goes to why the abundance movement
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: has caught fire among some liberals when they're like, you know,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: we can't just keep proposing ideas that take ten or
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: fifteen years. We've got to be able to bring these
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: ideas to voters quicker and sooner. And how they do
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: that is I think, you know, if they'd done that,
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: we might already have some high speed rail in California
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: that people would be happy with, right you know. You
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: know it's funny the Florida program got you know, it
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: never really took off, but then we got some private
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: sector there's a thing called bright Line. It's actually starting
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: to get some consumer uptake, if you will, because hey,
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: it's great to be able to train from Miami to Orlando.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: It's a heck of a lot easier than driving. And so,
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: you know, we still I think the concept of high
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: speed rail is still a popular idea, but I think
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: this was about how hard and how how poor the
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: implementation process has been. All right. Last question comes from
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: David P. And Scottsdale. He says, you recently outlined three
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: likely midterm outcomes, but I think the most probable is
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: a constitutional crist where Magoline leaders, led by the speaker
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: refuse to certify new members from blue districts. Trump has
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: shown he'll do anything to hold power, and dismissing this
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: as overblown seems naive. What's your take? Love the show,
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: David P. Scottsdale. Here's the thing, you know, I had
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: a friend of mine say to me once he goes,
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: you know, the biggest mistake we make with Trump failure
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: of imagination. January six is one of those that's failure
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: of imagination. But then again, what did I begin this
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: podcast with Taco Thursday? Trump always chickens out. Well. January
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: six is a perfect example of a way that he
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: both does and doesn't. Right, Trump chickened out on January sixth.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I've always that the next interview I ever
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: do with Donald Trump, if I do another interview with
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump, miss President, love to sit down with you.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: But one of the questions I'd ask about January six
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: is why you didn't follow through? Why'd you choke? Why
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: didn't you fire the attorney general? Why didn't you fire
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: the Defense secretary? Why you vote the Insurrection Act? All
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: the things he said he could have done? Why did
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: he do it? Now? I've heard him recently somebody kind
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: of you know, he said, well, I guess I should
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: have seized the voting machines. You're like, oh boy, Right,
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: So I say all that because he simultaneously usually chickens
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: out and is willing to touch the hot stove too long. Right,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: That's sort of his I guess that's his great superpower
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: is is he is convinced people.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: He he.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: That he's all words and no action, and he's convinced people. Well,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: there's nothing he wouldn't be willing to try either. But
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: I don't dismiss it. I don't think it's likely a
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: lot of it will depend on on what the people
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: around him do. Right, A lot of this will be
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: on Susie Wild's right. Mark Meadows, let every looney tuned
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: person get into the president's here after the election in
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty and got him whipped up and got him
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: thinking all these conspiracies, and he'd borrow from it and
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: he'd go crazy. Do Susie Wilds have the same open
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: door policy after the midterms, where he'll get looney tuned
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: lawyers who will come in and say, you know what
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: you ought to do. Convince Mike Johnson not to accept this,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: accept that, et cetera, et cetera. So I think we're
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: only in the situation you describe. If the battle for
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: the House is under five seats, right, the Democrats have
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: a majority, that's five seats are less, then I'd be
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: worried about them not seating everybody and trying to do that.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: If it's a twenty to thirty seat pickup, I don't
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: know how you do it, you know, because it states that, yes,
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: look the House of Representatives, you know, they they ultimately
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: can decide who's in and who's out. But it takes
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: a majority. They barely have a working majority right now,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: and it isn't you know, the percentages aren't zero that
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: there are more Democrats in the House come November one,
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty sixth than there are living Republicans right between
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: Actuary tables. Accidents, things we haven't thought about. You know,
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: somebody out of nowhere dropped out of a heart attack
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: in California's first congressional district. Suddenly they're short another member
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: of Congress. That could happen as easily on the Democratic side.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: So I'm not dismissive and going to call I'm done,
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: you know, to me after January sixth, we shouldn't have
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: a failure to imagine anymore with Trump, And I think
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: that's why nobody was just dismissive of him talking about
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: Greenland this time, as they were when he mused about
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: Greenland during his first term. So I don't think it's likely.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: I don't, but I think your scenario would concern me
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: more if the margin, you know, is somewhere five seats
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: or less, and say in one seat in the in
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: the SEC. All right, with that, I will put a
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: pin in it. I feel like it's Thursday. I should
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: do a little bit of sports. I can't, you know,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: it's been in college football for umpteen weeks. But I
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: think I teased then I was gonna have some strong
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: opinions about the Baseball Hall of Fame. And it's not
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: new to have sort of a hot take on the
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: Baseball Hall of Fame. And there's plenty of smart people
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: and dumb people have made different proposals about what should
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame do. And you know, us baseball
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: fans were weirdly more protective of the Baseball Hall of
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: Fame than basketball fans are of the Basketball Hall of Fame. Which, man,
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: you know, if you have a if you have a
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: ten year career and go to three All Star Games,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: you're going to make the Basketball Hall of Fame. In baseball,
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: that's never you know, that's you know, we expect something
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: more than that right there there. It feels always felt
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: a bit more lenient for the Basketball Hall of Fame
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: than with the Baseball Hall of Fame. And then the
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame is is they've they have
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: a they sort of the criteria is a mess. Who
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: votes as a mess. There's sort of this committee that rotates.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: You don't quite know who it is. Some sports writers
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: are a part of it, but they're not a biggest,
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: a bigger part of it. They have acknowledged that they've
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: sort of there were times where they sort of undervalued
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: certain positions. I think the Baseball Hall of Fame is
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: is much better about acknowledging every position and making sure
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: that there are Hall of Famers on all levels. It
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: took a while for the for the prof Again, it's
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: not necessity technically an NFL Hall of Fame. It's a
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame. You know, they've been a
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: little slow on the on punters and kickers. I was
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: impressed that Devin Hester made it into the NFL Hall
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, where he was
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: primarily got there because he's considered the greatest kick returner
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: of all time. You know that is not it it is.
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of like if I think, you kick,
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: the best kick returner ought to be in the Hall
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: of Fame, but there are you know, did he contribute
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: enough as a receiver to you know, he never would
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: have made it the Hall of Fame if you just
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: looked at him as a wide receiver. It's kind of
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: like the argument that gets made about relief pictures, and
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: I think the entire conversation about pictures and the Hall
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: of Fame is going to change because you know, you know,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: most starting pitchers are only asked to go five or
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: six innings. So now the win, you know, first of all,
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: three hundred wins isn't going to happen, and even two
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: point fifty is probably going to be a rarity. Two
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five wins is probably going to be
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: the new marker, right, everybody with two twenty five or
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: north will probably starting in the twenty first century, if
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: you will, we'll probably definitely get in. But wins in
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: general are seen is not as telling of a statistic
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: as all these other stats that you have. I think
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: the frustration with all of these Hall of Fames is
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: that there's no specific metric, right, you just sort of
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: know when you see it. It's always been ultimately for me,
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame as a pornography is the old
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court pornography test. You know when you see it,
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: which is why I struggled with the two inductees this week,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: Carlos Beltran and Andrew Jones. I'm a bigger proponent of
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: Jones into the Hall of Fame than I would be
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: Beltran and it's just one of those things. Andrew Jones
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: was might be the best defensive center fielder ever. And
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: I think when you're ever known as the best of
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: something ever, Devin Hester kick returner, you know, you got
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: to figure out how to get that person in the
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. But then I think, you know, the
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: more data we have now about baseball, the more data
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: that we use to determine who's good at this and
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: who's good at that, it is it has increased the
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: odds that the Hall of Fame is turning into the
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: Hall of the incredibly good, but not necessarcessarily the best.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: And I say that because and I think it goes
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: to I don't know, I'm the Baseball Hall of Fame.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: I think has been devalued unintentionally by the decision by
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: sports writers to punish the known steroids guys. And the
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: decision to do that was done out of moral conviction
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: that I respect, which was, hey, we got to the
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fame should be reserved. No cheaters allowed, right,
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: that's bottom line, right, no cheaters allowed. The question is
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: what's the definition of cheating? Right, And that's you know,
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: if you took amphetamines with coffee. You know, they're in
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: the sixties, and I remember, I think this was in
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: the Ken Burns Baseball documentary. You know, there was a
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: special coffee, right, and it was essentially emphetamines mixed with
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: caffeine that players took because it was a long season
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: and he needed a jolt of energy. Is that a
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: performance enhancing drug? Right? Where do you draw the line
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: on that, you know? And that's where I think there's
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: always been more gray area with this. I think if
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: you cheat after the league puts in a rule that
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: it's cheating, then that's one thing. But when you had
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: this gray area for so long and these guys sort of,
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: you know, found ways around it again, it obviously created
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: a bit of a crisis. So we have all these
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: famous players from the nineties not in the Hall of Fame, right,
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Rafael Palm, Merrow, Mark McGuire, who
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: were the most famous baseball players of the nineteen nineties.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: And it gets to the other part of the name
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: of the thing. It's called the Hall of Fame, not
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: the Hall of purity. And I wonder if we are
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: in some ways going out of our way to reward
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: collectively and I say we, I mean sort of the
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: baseball community. I'd love to get a vote. I'd love
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: to but my late great friend Tim Russard was on
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: the was on the Cooperstown Committee of some form or another. Man,
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: sign me up if I could ever get a piece,
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: get on that. But it you know, there's a I
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 1: think what's fun about the Hall of Fame is twofold
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: and it's something that I wish more of these leagues
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: would embrace. And it at its root it goes to
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: an idea that Bill Simmons I think once did out
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: of page two way back when when he he wanted
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: to do these pyramids or I think levels, Right, you're
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: a top of the pyramid or you know you could
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: I'm up with it is five star right, Like you
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: know you're a Hall of Famer, But are you a
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: are you in the Silver Diamond Club wing of the
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fame or are you just in the regular
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: wing of the Hall of Fame?
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: And it would be fun to debate, Hey does so
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: and so belong in this upper tier, the middle tier
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: or the lower tier? Right? And you can and you know,
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: to me, if you want to make the Hall of
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: Fame relevant to fans today and fans of yesteryear. What
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: is great about it are the debates. It's having the debate.
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: So on one hand, I'm glad that we can have
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: a debate about Beltran and Jones. And you know, look,
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: it looks like Chase Utley is on the way there.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: Andy Pettitt, adding, Pettit is close to getting fifty percent
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: of the vote this time. Does he have a chance.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: It was interesting reading and Rosenthal about Andy Pettitt because
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: there's always been this question with Pettit. One is there's
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: always been a little bit of association, you know, did
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: he did he? Did he take whatever Clemens was doing?
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: But I think the bigger question mark on Pettitt is
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: the same question you could have about Kurt Shilling, although
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: I think politics is why Shilling isn't in, which is
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: how much should the postseason matter when you make it,
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: when you decide whether somebody's Hall of Fame worthy. Andy
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: Pettitt's postseason record is unbelievable, and it's and so's Kurt Shilling, right,
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: and so should that? You know, not every player like
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: a Ted Williams never got to play in the postseason,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: you know, so is it is it fair. Is it unfair?
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: Is it unfair to those that don't get to the postseasons?
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: It's not everybody gets there.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 2: Two.
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: You know that that a player that happens to be
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: playing for the Dodgers or the Yankees, who frequently make
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: the postseason, they have a better chance at getting opportunities
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: for postseason immortality, which then, of course gives them a
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: better chance at getting into the Hall. Well, if you're
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: you know, I guess as a player, it's on you
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: to help lead your team to the playoffs, right, So I,
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: you know, I kind of think the postseason ought to
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: get there. But what was interesting about the Ken Rosenthal
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: column in The Athletic this week explaining his ballot, explaining
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: his rationale, Like, for instance, he suddenly decided, you know,
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: the Felix Hernandez, Right, Felix Hernandez is one of those
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: Did he have a long enough career? Right? There was
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: no doubt for about six years, it was a given
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: he was the best pitcher in baseball. You're like, man,
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: poor Seattle. But he was in Seattle, Right, had he
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: been in Boston or New York, he'd probably already be
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. Right, He's who would you
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: rather have pitching CC, Sabbathi or Felix Hernandez in their prime?
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's a it's not even a it's
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: to me, it's not even close. Look, I love CC,
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: He's one of my favorite players. I enjoy CEC, I
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: enjoy hearing him, I love his story. But man, kim
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: me Felix right that I'd have definitely gotten him. And
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: I think CC benefited from being Yankee right and having
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: more opportunities in the postseason. But what was interesting is
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: is as we reassess what pictures get in, right, when
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: the markers of three thousand innings or three thousand strikeouts
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: or I guess it's two thousand innings, three thousand strikeouts,
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: three hundred wins, when those markers are sort of less relevant,
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: less likely because we now have five man rotations, we
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: now have specialty relief pictures. And what are we going
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: to do about that? It took us forever to decide
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: should closers get in? And then we've seen over time
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: the best closers of every decade find their way into
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame. What do you do about the
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: guys in between? The great hold guys? Right? Are they
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: going to get some consideration, you know, or are you
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: going to have to be a closer. Are you're going
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: to have to have saves in order to get there?
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: Because I do think the Hall of Fame ought to
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: reflect the game that is played in that era and
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: how it was played in these days, bullpens matter more
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: than they ever have before, and specially pitching certainly matters there.
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: But what's interesting is how Rosenthal admitted it's made him
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: rethink certain guys that he dismissed as Hall of famers before,
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: and pictures that he singled out were Mark Burley longtime
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: Chicago White Sox and Cole Hamill's Who's somebody who's when
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: you look at him through a different prism, and particularly
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: with the postseason as well, you're like, hey, wait a minute,
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: you know Hamil's is much closer to Hall of Fame
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: worthy then you realize. But then there's another part of
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: this that I don't know how you measure, but I
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: think that matters in the Hall of Fame, which is
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: really like did people want their baseball card? Were they
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: considered where you were like, oh my god, we're facing
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: who tonight? You got to pitch around that guy? Or
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: oh boy, so and so on to not ought to
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: be further down the lineup because so and so is pitching.
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: You know it is. And that's the pornography test, if
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: you will, uh to that that that's missing. So look,
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: I I think we're I think the all of the
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: Hall of Fames need a reboot. I think somebody ought
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: to give Simmon some credit and that the idea of
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: creating different wings within the Hall of Fame would only
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: spark more interest in the Hall of Fame. And you
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: know what's more entertaining than a good debate, since we
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: if we're not going to debate who's in or who's out,
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: let's debate where do they belong? Do they belong in
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: the top tier? And then you would get look, Bonds
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: and Clemens, they need to be in, but maybe you
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: don't put them. Well I don't know, am I going
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: to put Clemens in the all time? You know in
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: the sort of the the upper upper wing, you know,
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: the ten you know that where maybe you only allow
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: ten pictures at any one time in the in the
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: top ring of the Hall of Fame. You say, well,
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: we don't know how much how you know we know
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: he was Hall of fame worthy, but you know, then
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: you use the steroid rumors as a way to not
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: give him the top spot. Maybe you do the same
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: with bonds or with gambling with Rose, you do that.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: But I do think all of the Hall of Fames
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: need a reboot. And I have to say, I think
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: I would also try to figure out how to have
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: fans plus writers, plus executives plus current players to all
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: have some say. I wouldn't want any entity to be
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: the dominant portion of the electorate, but I'd love that
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame electorate should be twenty five percent fans,
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: and it should be some sort of maybe you've got
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: to pass certain baseball quizzes to qualify as a voter. Yes,
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: I would have a poll tax for this. Maybe it's
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: twenty five percent baseball reporters, baseball writers, it's twenty five
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: percent scouts and executives, and it's twenty five percent active players.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: And then maybe you you would have the committee former
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: Hall of famers be part of the different eras committees.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: But all of these and I think about it in
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: the same way for basketball, and think about it the
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: same way for football. But in general, I think all
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: of these need some reanimation, because I think it would
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: just bring more life into them. And the more debate
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: you have about the Hall of Fame, the more interested
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: people will in visiting the Hall of Fames, because guess what,
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, they're businesses and you
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: need more interest in your business. And in an odd way,
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: I think Baseball's made Cooper's Town less interesting because of
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: how they've kept certain people out and how they've it's like,
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: it's weirdly, it's like they raised the barrier for some
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: and then lowered the barrier to entry for others. I
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: think it's sent a weird message and it's just made
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame generally less relevant than I wish
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 1: it were. All right, old man, sports rant is over
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: with that. I hope you enjoy your weekend. Let's hope
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: we don't stumble into any sort of geopolitical nightmares over
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: the next ninety six hours. Please. I have my new
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: Sphere show coming up this weekend. You can always check
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: that out on the new Sphere app. I know I
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: haven't promoted that a lot. I don't mean to not
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: promote it here. I hope you've already checked it out.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: I know I get some questions based on that, so
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: please do That'll be posting as always on Sunday night,
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: so with that, I'll see you next week.