Latest / The Scene Projects / Dr. Brett Denkin on Sports Psychology, Mental Training, and Creative Confidence

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Dr. Brett Denkin on Sports Psychology, Mental Training, and Creative Confidence · The Scene Projects

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  This program is part of the Scene Projects podcast network.
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  Scene Project features interviews with independent musicians, comedians, and artists
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  from across the Midwest.
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  Become part of our community and support local art wherever you are.
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  Welcome in to another exciting episode of Real Biz.
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  I am your host, Bubba Starts, and with me today is sports psychologist and life coach, doctor
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  Brett Denkin.
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  Doctor Brett, welcome to the show.
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  Hey.
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  Thanks, Bubba.
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  Appreciate it.
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  Yeah.
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  It's a it's a pleasure to have you in here.
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  Obviously, a mutual friend and, you know, business partner of yours, I guess.
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  Yeah.
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  She's talented.
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  Yeah.
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  Well and she's obviously big in the music world as well, and I know that you're, you know, in a
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  little bit different field that that overlaps with what we do here at the Scene Projects.
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  We have the Scene Projects Sports Network as well.
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  But, yeah, love love what you do, on the backside of these athletes and and, you know,
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  high level business operators.
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  And, really, we're trying to teach artists in our collective as well how important their
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  mental health is to them too.
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  So really looking forward to our conversation today.
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  Before we get too far into everything, just wanted to give you an opportunity to share a
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  little bit of your backstory with us, and we'll kinda pick the conversation up from there.
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  Well, I grew up in Connecticut.
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  I went to Emory University in Atlanta.
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  I was a double major economics and psychology.
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  I worked in business for a few years, and I wanted to do something.
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  I've always been sort of wired to make a difference.
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  So even though I love the business world and I love trading, I love all these different
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  aspects of entrepreneurship.
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  I went out to San Diego to get a doctorate in the early nineties in psychology, And and I was
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  doing a residency, and they cut the residencies, and I wound up back in
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  Connecticut.
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  And so I did a decade there, and then at 40 unhooked my life at the time.
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  It felt like a huge deal, like, to scrabble into the relative unknown, but it was out
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  throughout The United States.
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  So I put my business on the phone, did phone and FaceTime, twenty years ago, basically,
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  before the whole COVID and telemedicine thing and all that stuff.
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  And so I really turned myself into a life coach sports psychologist over time.
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  I'm an identical twin.
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  We were really super athletic, really good at most sports, but had no size.
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  And so the sports psychology is a tremendous fit for my personality and my style because a
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  lot of the athletes I work with and a lot of the entrepreneurs I work with today, they have
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  a really high commitment to excellence.
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  And I've always been a little bit driven, but also driven to make a difference.
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  And, you know, the the sports are, you know, are absolutely fascinating to me.
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  And, you know, at this stage, I work with a lot of d one and pro athletes, so it's super fun.
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  Yeah.
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  Really cool stuff.
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  So my dad was an athlete, a scholarship, and actually played against Emory a lot.
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  He went to the University of the South in Suwanee, Tennessee.
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  That's
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  actually that's actually where I was born, so not too far up from Atlanta.
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  And, you know, him being an athlete I grew up playing a lot of sports in in my career.
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  Obviously, didn't have, you know, I grew up in a small town.
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  So you're almost forced to play because they need numbers.
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  But Definitely.
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  Always enjoyed sports.
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  And for me, music, which is something else that, you know, my dad and and my family kinda
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  did.
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  Dad played guitar.
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  Uncle played guitar.
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  And, music just kinda became more a part of my life than the sports, but I'm still a massive
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  sports fan.
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  I think I relate to a lot of that.
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  And I mentioned, my friend Brandon Day, who we had a interview with recently, who came from
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  sports, was a d two national champion, and, ended up on the cover of Sports Illustrated of
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  all things, you know, ten years ago or so, but has now picked up music.
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  So talking to him about, you know, like, flow state and this Yeah.
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  You know, this mental space that we get in as high level performers that it's, it's very it's
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  very relatable, across
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  the percent.
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  Definitely.
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  100%.
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  And you've taken that obviously to the business world as well.
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  So I I it's it kind of do you feel like you work with you know?
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  I mean, obviously, everyone is different.
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  Every person is different, but that's the psychology of being a high level business
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  person or a high level athlete that a lot of the mental aspects of it are very, very
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  similar.
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  Well, it doesn't matter what the sport I coach is.
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  You know?
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  I mean, like, you know, I've got a lot of soccer soccer players, a lot of hockey players,
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  a lot of baseball players, and some football players, and so on.
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  But I've coached, like, Olympic runners and fencers and, you know, sports that some of us
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  would consider a little bit odd.
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  You know, in fencing, it's called the strip.
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  Right?
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  And if you don't know fencing, you know, I didn't grow up with anything like that.
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  We just did baseball and tennis more or less and, you know, played, like, tackle football
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  until somebody got hurt, you know, that kind of thing.
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  Right?
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  So it really you know, my basic philosophy is off the field for on the field and vice versa.
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  So I'm doing the communication skills, the relationships, and then, of course, all the
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  mental game training.
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  And it can be with business people as well because meditation, mindfulness, visualization,
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  breath work, positive self talk, and what I call enhanced communication skills, living and
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  speaking your truth, that pretty much could fit everyone.
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  It's just sometimes the housewives don't take me up on it.
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  So I'd rather go with the d one or pro athlete.
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  Well, and you talk to who is listening to you.
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  Right?
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  Being someone who came from the sports world that you relate to them and with as much advice
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  as there is out on the Internet now, people want to feel like they're seen and heard.
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  And that's one thing that I, you know, have found working in the music space is, you know,
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  we're all out here creating this art or, you know, performing on the sports field, but don't
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  necessarily always feel seen as human beings and felt in that way.
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  And, I I think that's important for, really anyone.
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  Like you said, you you know, people
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  tend find time.
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  Yeah.
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  Totally.
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  You spend a lot of time in my world, you know, really connecting and building relationships
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  with people, then and then then playfully, I say, you know, I have to get on a step ladder
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  and smash them in the face.
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  And because the reason the step ladder exists is because, you know, I used to be five nine.
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  I'm probably clinging to five seven and a half close at close to 60 here.
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  But these kids, a lot of them are six four, six five, six six that I that I guide.
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  And so that's my playful metaphor about climbing on the on the step ladder and
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  literally, you know, like, saying it pretty straight, you know, getting them to do things
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  that they wouldn't necessarily do, like train their mind for real.
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  Because unless you have a martial arts background or something like that, the vast
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  majority of people, Bubba, aren't learning this in school.
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  They're not learning this from their families.
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  They're not learning how to train their minds pretty much anywhere.
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  No.
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  And I think when most of us think of, like, psychology and that we're thinking, like, from
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  us to another.
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  Like, we're playing games on somebody else and getting into their head.
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  But, really, it's more about getting into your own head, being able to, you know, wire and
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  rewire certain things that you've learned to become that high level performer.
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  And I I assume for a lot of d one athletes that you got to that level because you were the best
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  person in your area and in your space.
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  And now you're coming into a level where everybody was the best in their thing.
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  And I
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  I imagine that
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  there starts to become a lot of the impostor syndrome, and a lot of doubt starts to creep in
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  to these young athletes who have never had that before.
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  They've always been the best in their town, on their team, in their state possibly, and now
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  you're stepping into a much larger pool of professional or, you know, amateur athlete.
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  Yeah.
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  That's really well said.
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  And, you know, occasionally, there are some exceptions.
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  You know?
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  I'm watching a little bit of the Australian Open, the, you know, the grand slam
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  championships in tennis.
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  There's only four of them.
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  Right?
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  And Jessic Jessica Pagula, whose father is the billionaire owner of the Buffalo Bills, her
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  interview is really fascinating because it took her a while longer to kinda get into her prime.
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  You know, most of these female tennis players are there by seventeen, eighteen, nineteen,
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  twenty, and it took her longer to get inside the top 100 in the world and then top 20 in the
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  world and top 10 and so on.
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  But for the most part, you're dead.
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  Right?
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  These kids are the d ones tend to be bigger, stronger, faster, but that's not enough if they
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  don't really learn how to train their minds unless they're Lawrence Taylor or something or
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  Michael Jordan.
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  Right?
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  Unless they're so freaking gifted, someone else is gonna have the edge.
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  And that's why it's a lot of fun because, you know, especially people that are a little bit
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  more competitive are willing to do whatever it takes.
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  And in my world, that means the mental game.
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  Yeah.
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  And famously, Michael Jordan cut from his, you know, high school basketball team and and
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  facing those adversities.
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  He was going there, you know, bigger, stronger, faster, more talented.
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  I know that story about how hip bibbing cut, board driven or whatever.
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  He was getting there one way or another, more or less.
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  I mean Yeah.
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  He's an outlier example.
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  Yeah.
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  But that's the psychology of it.
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  And I think for someone who, you know, is especially, I I live in South Dakota, doctor
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  Brett.
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  So Yeah.
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  I'm aware I'm aware of that.
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  I I saw one of your, like, interviews or whatever.
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  You're in the middle of nowhere, counting a thousand people.
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  And by the way, like, my my memory of South Dakota real quick is, like, when when I was 25,
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  my twin brother and I drove cross country, you know, from Connecticut to San Diego where we
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  went to grad school, and we got into a wicked fist fight in the badlands of South Dakota.
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  So I still remember South Dakota well.
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  Yeah.
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  That's nice.
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  Really, really beaten into you.
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  For sure.
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  Those were bloody fights.
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  We're identical twins.
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  You know what mean?
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  So we've had many of them.
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  Oh, that's great.
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  So and, yeah, what I was alluding to is that even in South Dakota, if you're, you know, six
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  eight, six nine, you're gonna stand out among these high school athletes here.
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  And and even if you go to a when you step from that high school where you're probably one of
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  the best players in the state just because of your size, that doesn't necessarily mean you're
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  gonna step onto a d one basketball team and to be the best player on that team.
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  And I think that you it's almost more necessary to be extra driven.
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  If you really want to do these sports and to play at a top collegiate level and then
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  possibly move on to a professional level, you know, depending on the sport that you're
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  playing, it takes so much work.
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  And and you have to want to be the best.
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  It doesn't just happen.
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  No.
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  It definitely doesn't.
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  And, again, you know, a huge component of it is training the mind, and and that does separate
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  people to people that are mentally tougher.
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  And some of them, I always say playfully that, you know, maybe Derek Cheader and Tiger Woods
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  came out of the womb, you know, clutch.
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  But for the most part, you don't really get there with a lot of trial with a lot of
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  practice and a lot of mental game training.
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  Combination of putting yourself in position, being there often, and then, of course, the
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  nonstop training the mind so that you can handle the pressure better.
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  And then maybe there are some exceptions, you know, people that are just coming out of the
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  womb, you know, gifted or coming out of the womb, you know, more poised.
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  But, again, they're doing the training as well.
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  Yeah.
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  That clutch gene.
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  Right?
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  And I don't know.
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  You believe that it can be learned and it can be taught to put your yourself in these?
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  And how do you train your mind to make job of the oppressed bull?
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  Like, I wouldn't have a job if I didn't believe it was possible to train your freaking mind
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  here.
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  Right?
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  So, you know, I'd be out of business quick, right, if it was just just genetics.
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  Right?
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  But yeah.
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  So so, obviously, I believe that quite a bit.
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  Just the process and the journey can be a little bit of a beast.
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  You know, I often say it's, like, six to eighteen months to really set up the
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  foundation.
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  You know?
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  So what I'm doing when I'm coaching and guiding and mentoring is I'm just I'm pushing the kids
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  to do the fundamentals, the, you know, again, the meditation, the mindfulness practice, the
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  visualization, the breath work, the positive self talk, and, again, like, and speaking your
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  truth because it develops so much courage when you're able to say it straight.
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  Right?
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  But that is a build out.
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  The mental game is a build out.
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  It just it really is.
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  And it doesn't happen overnight for most people, although some are gonna take to it
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  sooner than others.
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  So if you do have, like, a martial arts background or something like that, it's gonna
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  come a lot quicker or it might even be there.
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  And then the reason that you're coming with someone like me you wanna take your game to the
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  next level as opposed to kids that have the gifts or kids that, you know, perform well, you
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  know, in practice but don't perform well in a game.
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  See it?
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  Yeah.
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  And have you, I guess, ever encountered, you know, situations?
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  And and I know you've worked in this field for a long time where just it just doesn't take
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  with someone for whatever reason.
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  Like, are there situations where it just would matter how, you know, maybe they're not working
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  the program correctly and they're not actually doing the things that it just doesn't work for
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  people, or do you believe that every single person has that ability to achieve that
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  greatness?
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  Well, I mean, like, I'm not one of these sort of trophy types.
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  You know, everybody deserves a trophy.
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  I mean, some people are more gifted than others.
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  The reason, you know, one of the separations between a d one and a d three is bigger,
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  stronger, faster.
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  Right?
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  Now is there a mental game separation as well?
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  Yeah.
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  You know, I've worked with military and, you know, special forces dudes and so on, and there
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  are differences.
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  You know, some people are just are gonna be more tenacious by nature, more conscientious by
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  nature, more motivated by, you know, by nature.
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  But the nurture piece is important too.
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  Right?
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  You know, the conditioning, how you were raised, your attitude.
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  I'm not for everybody.
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  Some people, they don't wanna train their freaking minds, or they're not ready, or, you
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  know, they they wanna take you know, some people, you know, often, you know,
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  antidepressants and drugs like that, most of the time, they're not necessary.
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  They really aren't.
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  90% of the time, they're not necessary, but people take them because it's a freaking
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  shortcut.
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  Right?
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  Now there are obviously instances where, you know, the depression gets so thick that it is
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  necessary.
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  It's running so ridiculously genetic.
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  But for the most part, if you train your mind and you pay attention to your actions and you
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  build healthy relationships and so on, you'll probably never need something like that.
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  Not everyone can handle getting punched in the mouth, step ladder or not.
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  It's a playful metaphor, but I am pretty tough at times.
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  But, again, you're you're you're building a lot of you know, again, it's a it's a really
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  extraordinary you know, I like to say it playfully as a male, but it takes an insane
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  amount of patience that's not always natural to us to build the foundation so that you could be
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  pretty assertive or even aggressive about asking somebody to make a freaking change.
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  Right?
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  Because change people resist change.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  Well, and like you said, it's a build out, a six to eighteen month build out to really get
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  someone to change their mental habits, right, along with maybe some physical habits inside of
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  that as well to to build that out to be more confident.
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  Right?
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  It doesn't happen overnight.
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  You don't go to, you know, one or two sessions with doctor Brett and all of a sudden, you're
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  knocking down the last second shot with, you know, with ice in your veins.
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  Right?
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  Like, it takes that
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  Most sheep tell me.
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  No.
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  But every once in a while, I get a kid with the yips, and I tell the parents all the time.
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  I'm like, you know, this could be a while with the yips, but every once in a while, like,
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  three or four sessions of the yips are gone.
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  So it really most of the time, that's absolutely the case.
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  It's a build out.
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  But every once in a while, someone just I don't know.
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  They just need a little tweaking.
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  Right?
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  But for the most part, that's just not I'm not not a I'm a relationship guy.
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  I'm a long term thinker.
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  You know, I'm just not a short term guy, so I'm doing a lot of mentoring and guiding.
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  And, again, some of it's business coaching and life coaching and relationships and
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  communication, so the build out is across the board.
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  It really isn't in one area, especially when you think about a pro athlete.
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  The moving parts of that are ferocious.
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  The the the business aspect of being a pro athlete is really challenging.
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  I mean, it is such a freaking business.
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  It's crazy.
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  And no matter how much the team seems to like you or the organization seems to like you, you
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  know, if you get hurt or injured, unless you're Tom Brady, you're expendable.
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  Right?
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  You know what mean?
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  Unless you're at the very, very top.
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  You know what I mean?
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  Your, you know, your your your security is fragile.
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  Right.
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  And we you know, not to mention the outside noise of the media and the fans and and
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  everything else that goes along with it.
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  We we very rarely stop to think about the life of a professional athlete and the stress that
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  comes from that to keeping your job.
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  I I think a lot of us as fans, we see the big paychecks and the fact that they're getting
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  paid to play a game, albeit, you know you know, football's a very hard game to play through.
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  But we very rarely see through that and see to the people that are inside of that.
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  And I think that might be the most intriguing thing to me about the work that you've been
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  able to do in the field that you've been able to do it is the relationships you've been able
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  to form with these, you know, high level athletes and getting to know some of the inner
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  workings of the business side of things.
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  And now with NIL money in, you know, in, you know, NCAA sports that the college game has
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  very much become a business as well.
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  Yeah.
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  A 100%.
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  And, again, that's, you know, mostly for the top athletes.
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  You know, I'm not sure.
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  Like, you know, on these, like, you know, d one football teams or something, you know, there's
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  probably a 100, a 150 kids.
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  Right?
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  So it's really three or four that are gonna make the real money.
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  But but it is a little bit more, like, pro football now than it's ever been.
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  And for some people, that change is super positive.
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  And for old school guys like Nick Saban or whatever, they don't really love it because
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  it's so much more of a business.
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  But, you know, there's always been the boosters and the other things that have been sort of
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  behind the scenes that have always been there.
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  And so now it's a little bit more upfront.
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  You know, the bigger programs, University of Texas or UGA or whatever it is or Alabama, they
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  need real money.
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  You know, they've always been super competitive, but now you need to pay these top
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  guys, you know, $2.03, $4,000,000 a year in college or something.
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  And it does give them options.
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  You know, they can stay longer.
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  You know, they don't have to get the shit kicked out of them on the jets as a freaking 22
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  year old rookie.
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  I mean and, you know, pretty much go there to freaking ruin your career.
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  You know?
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  So there are some advantages, but for the most part, what we're really talking about is
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  change.
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  Right?
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  And, you know, I I often say my wife is tied to Kian, Bien, Blang.
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  All things change.
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  Right?
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  And I'm always teaching people how to embrace change and to be more flexible, adaptive,
• 19:37
  creative, and resilient.
• 19:39
  And creativity, always say, you know, can be interpersonal because it's hard for me to draw
• 19:44
  even a stick figure.
• 19:45
  You know, I'm not a musician like you.
• 19:48
  Although, who knows?
• 19:49
  I mean, maybe I could write a song in the sense that I you know, I'm a deeper thinker, and and
• 19:53
  I really respect that talent that you have.
• 19:55
  You know, songwriting is deeper.
• 19:57
  I can't believe it or
• 19:58
  doctor Brett.
• 19:59
  So
• 20:02
  You know, for some random reason, I was just, you know, coming across the some of the history
• 20:07
  of, you know, the Eagles, Glenn Frey, and Don Hanley, Joe Walsh, and all that stuff.
• 20:12
  And I found that, you know, because I grew up on that stuff, and I I found it just absolutely
• 20:16
  fascinating.
• 20:17
  Hotel California, what it might have really been about, that song, you know, about the
• 20:22
  excesses of Hollywood or the shallownesses of Hollywood and everything.
• 20:25
  And, you know, it's different theories on different aspects of that song, but it was a
• 20:29
  deeper song than many.
• 20:31
  You know what mean?
• 20:31
  Then I grew up on, like, Billy Joel and Piano Man and shit like that.
• 20:35
  I just like the deeper, you know, mute the deeper songwriting.
• 20:39
  Right?
• 20:39
  The things that sort of wish you were here or something.
• 20:41
  Right?
• 20:42
  Something that's a little bit more, you know, deep and meaningful.
• 20:46
  And so I gravitate that way in terms of athletes to the kids that work with me or the
• 20:51
  or the or the business people that work with me.
• 20:53
  It's gotta be a fit at this stage.
• 20:55
  You know, we gotta really like each other, and then we're gonna, you know, develop a
• 20:59
  partnership for their personal growth.
• 21:01
  I just got somebody just reached out to me this yesterday, and I could just intuitively vibe
• 21:08
  that I might like this guy.
• 21:10
  I can't prove it.
• 21:11
  It's just a little email.
• 21:12
  You know what mean?
• 21:13
  But but he's instantly calling me Brett instead of doctor Brett, but he did it in a in a way
• 21:18
  that made me feel like you know what mean?
• 21:20
  We actually might really, you know, connect here, and that's what I'm looking for at this
• 21:24
  stage of my journey.
• 21:26
  It's about the you know, it's not just, you know, who you are or what you're about, but are
• 21:31
  we a fit at this stage of journey?
• 21:33
  Does the energy match?
• 21:34
  And if it does, I always tell people they're gonna win because I'm an all in type.
• 21:38
  I'm like a football coach.
• 21:40
  Well, yeah, exactly.
• 21:41
  That connection is gonna make you more effective at being able to help them.
• 21:45
  They're going to trust you more.
• 21:46
  You're going to, you know, like you said, go all in on them.
• 21:49
  Not that you wouldn't with someone prior in your career, but, you know, at 60 years old,
• 21:55
  right, you know, you're not doing stuff for the money.
• 21:58
  You're doing it for the impact.
• 22:00
  And and I
• 22:00
  think Definitely not in psychology anyway.
• 22:02
  Maybe in finance, but I'm not in finance.
• 22:04
  Right?
• 22:05
  And and they and I do a little bit of trading because that is the the money game, and that is
• 22:09
  fun that way.
• 22:11
  Right?
• 22:11
  So there I'm sure you're doing other vehicles as well.
• 22:14
  Right?
• 22:14
  Singing, songwriting, and however you're trying to monetize it.
• 22:18
  And they're not you know, they can be interconnected, but some but there is some
• 22:22
  separation as well.
• 22:24
  Yeah.
• 22:24
  Well and and I need that.
• 22:26
  Right?
• 22:26
  I I need that separation to to still make things interesting to me and to stay in that
• 22:33
  flow of doing it.
• 22:34
  But, yeah, everything's centered around entertainment, and now just conversations.
• 22:39
  And that's what has been a a blessing about today, getting to talk with you, Brett, and,
• 22:44
  you know, hear a little bit about your, you know, journey and what you're doing out there
• 22:48
  to help, you know, young athletes and business owners and, the mental aspect of the game and
• 22:53
  the the game of business as well, I think, are so underrated and and really not talked about
• 22:58
  enough in today's society.
• 23:00
  So appreciate you coming on and spending some time with me today.
• 23:03
  Awesome.
• 23:03
  Yeah.
• 23:04
  And one of the core aspects also about what I'm up to is I've got all these kids in, like,
• 23:08
  Europe and Australia and all over the world because I'm pushing them pretty hard to get out
• 23:13
  of their comfort zones.
• 23:14
  And you start in little ways by, you know, maybe going to a coffee shop by yourself or
• 23:19
  something or, you know, grabbing a beer and talking to the bartender or or the little old
• 23:24
  lady who sits down next to you, and then maybe traveling alone to, like, you know, the town
• 23:29
  over or some place that you always wanted to go.
• 23:32
  But I'm always pushing people to have experiences that help you get more comfortable
• 23:36
  in your own skin.
• 23:37
  Could you know what mean?
• 23:38
  And then to get a little bit more, you know, comfortable with the uncomfortable.
• 23:42
  Right?
• 23:43
  Asking people out that you wouldn't normally ask out or having conversations you wouldn't
• 23:47
  normally have.
• 23:48
  And my basic premise is, you know, I mean, if you if you can't talk to a stranger or you
• 23:53
  can't ask a girl out, how the fuck are you gonna hit 300?
• 23:58
  Feel like that's a pretty solid analogy.
• 24:02
  Well, Brett, how can people get ahold of you if they wanna work with you or find out more about
• 24:06
  what you do?
• 24:08
  Go ahead and plug whatever you need to or want to.
• 24:10
  Just doctor brett denkin dot com is the main website.
• 24:14
  We have several websites, and Ashley's got whole bunch of things that we're working on
• 24:18
  here.
• 24:19
  But doctor Brett Denkin, d e n k I n, Brett with two t's, dot com, and then all my contact
• 24:26
  information is there.
• 24:28
  Excellent.
• 24:28
  Well, I appreciate your time.
• 24:30
  This was a great conversation, and I look forward to getting to have another one with you
• 24:33
  down the road.
• 24:34
  Alright.
• 24:35
  Sounds good, pal.
• 24:36
  Take care.
• 24:37
  See you, Bubba.