Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Jon & Eddie Arnold about their choice of The Hungry Earth (1/2)

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Talks to Jon & Eddie Arnold about their choice of The Hungry Earth (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife for doing quicker
• 0:35
  quicker. Welcome back to Hamster with a
• 0:38
  blunt pen knife. Tonight we have decided to make
• 0:43
  you suffer. I'm John.
• 0:46
  I'm Joe. And.
• 0:48
  I'm otherwise known as my more successful 21st century version.
• 0:55
  Counterpart I believe. Yes, counterpart.
• 0:58
  Thank you. James.
• 1:01
  James we have been laughing about that all weekend, so we're
• 1:04
  all good. So tonight, again, we've
• 1:09
  gathered about an episode. We do not all agree on this
• 1:14
  case, shall we say, Joe and I, other voices of reason and
• 1:21
  common sense, despite The Tonight we are voyaging back to
• 1:27
  the MOF era of which it's known I'm a big fan.
• 1:30
  But we are voyaging. We are voyaging to one of its
• 1:33
  nadirs. We are coming to weigh.
• 1:37
  But we're not voyaging to heaven Sent though.
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  Well, no. That's the only thing that's
• 1:42
  more boring than this to be. Fair it is.
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  So, Eddie, why don't you tell us what you have chosen?
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  Me and you are responsible for this.
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  OK. Well to quote to quote myself
• 1:58
  from the season 7 strictly the best Siler install orange.
• 2:06
  I mean, did you see Toby Haydock's face?
• 2:08
  I mean, you didn't, John. But it was a picture, honestly.
• 2:12
  When he said that. It it's probably his best place
• 2:15
  since we put Carnival the monsters bottom of that
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  strictly. I mean, to be fair, it's not.
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  Really it's. Also my fault.
• 2:23
  It's not really up against stiff competition though, is it?
• 2:25
  Warriors of the Deep, you know, things like that.
• 2:30
  No, what Sea Devils think is. I mean, should we sort of set
• 2:35
  our stalls before we press play of just sort of where we land
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  with this sort of thing? Yeah, go.
• 2:42
  On Ed. You.
• 2:43
  Can start? Tell us you can.
• 2:47
  What? Why?
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  I think this is a good story. The best Silurian story.
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  Excuse me, don't underplay it. Well, that's good on your
• 2:55
  tombstone. That might not be too far if you
• 2:57
  pick more of these kind of stories.
• 2:59
  Oh, well, you'll, you'll be happy to know what we've got
• 3:02
  next. But yeah, well, I can't point
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  out any flaws with it myself that I find for one.
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  And this is not counting anything that may have gone on
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  behind the scenes. I'm just going off what we're
• 3:19
  given with the episode. We do not need behind the scenes
• 3:24
  trivia in order to make a case against this.
• 3:29
  I've just been made a case against it by my father
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  beforehand, so I need to make that point clear before.
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  Shit, has he prepared you for what he's going to say?
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  Well, no, he hasn't because he said he's going to.
• 3:40
  He said you 2 are going to whip my ass or something along those
• 3:45
  lines. But.
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  Yes, in an entirely innocent way, I may add.
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  All right, OK. Yeah, but yes, and also but one,
• 3:54
  I find it more bearable. More bearable because funnily
• 3:58
  enough, I seem to be one of the only people in this day and age
• 4:01
  who doesn't mind Amy Pond. So.
• 4:04
  Why is that? Please explain to me.
• 4:07
  Well, one Nina, it may, it may be for one due to the fact that
• 4:14
  she was the first proper companion to join when from when
• 4:20
  I was born because obviously Donna had appeared beforehand.
• 4:22
  So yeah. So she was, she was your sort of
• 4:26
  gateway companion then? Yeah, Yeah.
• 4:29
  OK. Why is that that?
• 4:31
  Because I was really getting in around the 11th hour, I've been
• 4:33
  told. Yeah, but Eddie, you have since
• 4:36
  watched all of Doctor Who, and now you can compare Avery Bond
• 4:39
  to all the rest. Maybe the only reason I liked it
• 4:43
  was because the weekend of the 11th hour I got sand in my eyes
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  by my mother, who was really cruel to me.
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  Oh, why? What does she do?
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  She. Kicked sand in his eyes.
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  It was shocking. What did you do well to to
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  prompt? This.
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  Well, I I know what I did to prompt it.
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  I was only about two at the time.
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  OK, nothing. He was running around.
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  You were only two. Well, no wonder you thought she
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  was amazing. Your brain was not fully
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  developed at this point. Well, to be to be fair, I have
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  thought that I have thought since that she's OK.
• 5:22
  It is like I I like some of the more feisty moments as well.
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  It's like all the arguing back and whatnot.
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  I do quite like that. I can't think why you would like
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  that. Good grief.
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  Is this what you've based? Your life upon Oh my.
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  God. That's right, you just saw with
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  the male Amy Pond. Right I'm I'm down grading this
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  era as I speak. You've killed me of my mock at
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  love. Yes, but what about the saloon?
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  You said this was the best saloon story ever.
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  It's like, I think originally it's like, it's like, obviously
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  it's one. It's one of the most
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  controversial writers in the show's history.
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  The second script for the main show, I believe.
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  It's obviously there are other things, cough cough.
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  Torchwood's first series with that one cyber woman.
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  Oh. Boy, yes.
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  I haven't seen that one. I know.
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  But I have seen, I have seen the Cyber woman.
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  I've seen enough. Yeah, but.
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  We've all seen enough, Eddie of. The cyber woman.
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  Well, OK, right. So I'm getting a sense there's a
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  bit of nostalgia here involved for you.
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  I'll go on. And yeah, so I do really like
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  this whole series of the whole because when I was doing my
• 6:54
  watch through, it was the only one that landed, only modern
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  series that landed in my top 10. What are they All the rest were
• 7:03
  classics. Yeah.
• 7:05
  Oh, the youth of today. Listen to them, everybody.
• 7:08
  You know, I always say the youth of.
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  The best Silerians. Apart from that opinion, I've
• 7:13
  got Midnight. But I mean your list, man.
• 7:16
  We must publish your list somewhere.
• 7:20
  I may have to update it since I haven't put in shooting season
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  yet but. Do a Twitter feed you know from
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  12:50. Yeah I suppose I could, but I
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  only have like 2 followers on Twitter.
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  Yeah, but then everyone's going to be so annoyed because you
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  don't put Season 12 in there. I know you don't like that one
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  so much. Oh yeah, let's just say that
• 7:39
  seasons like the bottom classic seasons.
• 7:42
  Can I tell you of a really controversial opinion that your
• 7:45
  father said recently on Twitter? Well, so he's putting in a
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  comment for a series 10 of Strictly, I believe, and he
• 7:52
  said, you know, just some of the best all round, you know, stand
• 7:56
  alone episodes since series 5. I read that comment.
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  I went, oh, John, is he mad? Did he forget Victory of the
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  Daleks? Did he forget Vampires of
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  Venice? And did he forget this bloody 2
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  parter? And did I forget you've got
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  Season 6 and seven in the middle of those cameras?
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  Oh. Oh, actually, yeah.
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  Suddenly I'm coming round to your.
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  Father, Father, did you forget your very favorite, The Crimson
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  Horror? That you will.
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  That is great though. Crimson.
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  Horror. The wrong Hands.
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  So John, well, where do you fall with this masterpiece by Chris
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  Chipnall? I fall into the fact that it is
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  a complete and utter mess. I think the first half isn't too
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  bad, but there's a couple of performances here that show,
• 8:48
  shall we say, off key and. Karen Gillan, Yeah.
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  See, mostly I I do like Karen Gillan's voice because she does
• 8:59
  kind of have the courage to not be liked, and she knows it's
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  going to radiate a section of the audience.
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  And for a young actor coming to a big role, that's a hell of a
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  courageous. Incredible how successful she
• 9:09
  was at that, wasn't it? Yeah, not being liked.
• 9:14
  Have you seen Dennis is cancelled?
• 9:15
  She is fantastic. No, I haven't I'd, I'd
• 9:18
  everyone's celibate. I should, but I, I definitely
• 9:20
  will get around to it. I, I actually think there are
• 9:22
  some serious issues with her characterisation in this story
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  where she's put through very traumatic events one minute and
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  then she's being all sort of gobby Amy the next.
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  So I'm like, eh, well, like. It's.
• 9:34
  It's Holmes syndrome if anything is something you could be right.
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  I'm a big Chris Chibnall fan, me so.
• 9:40
  Hey, Dylan Riesker says the best right the show's ever had.
• 9:44
  That's right, I've I would. Dylan, lie to us.
• 9:47
  I've I have heard that you have really strong opinions of flux.
• 9:52
  Yes, magnificent. Oh.
• 9:54
  Yes, speaking. Speaking of Amy, we haven't even
• 9:57
  mentioned it partly yet. Ah well, no.
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  Now the redeeming feature of Series 5 for me.
• 10:02
  Rory of course coming still finding his feet.
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  At this point though, I'd say so.
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  It comes into his own in the well, I suppose we are in the
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  latter half of the season now. Well, he's not really finding
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  his feet because he's been taken off and been killed at the end
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  of this, isn't he? Spoilers.
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  I mean, I'm going to say something to unarity.
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  Yeah, right. Well, you know, one day you will
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  meet a a beautiful lady and get married and have a wonderful
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  life together. Yeah, right.
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  One day. If that person then tries to
• 10:32
  seduce an alien Time Lord. All right.
• 10:34
  On the eve of your wedding day, you need to run a mile, all
• 10:38
  right? Don't jump in a police box and
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  go off on adventures with. Them we we have to specify that
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  it's the night before the wedding.
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  Exactly. Which didn't get reiterated
• 10:48
  enough during Series 5. What were they thinking?
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  I mean, Moffett did say he wouldn't have put that in.
• 10:53
  In hindsight, perhaps. That.
• 10:55
  Might have assassinated her character quite early.
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  Oh well yeah, and conveniently enough if if it or her space
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  travelling fiance getting pointed at with a Silurian heat
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  gun or whatever, I will not be getting in the way of that.
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  No, please do not. In fact, you can shove him into
• 11:19
  the crack when the lightning starts coming out to get him.
• 11:23
  Well, look, just for my part, very quickly, I'll just say I
• 11:27
  think episode 1 of this is AI. Forget how far I can go when
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  you're on the call, but I'm just going to go for it.
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  A massive wank job too. The poet we era in all the worst
• 11:40
  possible ways and innovating none of it.
• 11:44
  Just ripping it all off. And then in the second-half you
• 11:48
  have some of the most. One-dimensional characterization
• 11:51
  I think I've ever seen in Doctor Who.
• 11:54
  Some very bizarre decisions made with characters and that weird
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  thing about three complete nobodies.
• 12:02
  Deciding the fate of the human and Silurian races.
• 12:05
  Like who's going to listen to those people?
• 12:08
  Without anyone else knowing about this, frankly.
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  Frankly, in this day and age, anyone would listen to three
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  nobodies. What?
• 12:18
  Well, do you think we've got a hope then?
• 12:20
  You, the three of us, we could take over the world, Eddie.
• 12:26
  Well. Do you want to?
• 12:27
  Negotiate a peace deal now we can do it.
• 12:29
  I don't know. Actually, no.
• 12:31
  Have you not heard these commentaries?
• 12:32
  The three of us can't agree on anything, for God's sakes.
• 12:34
  It would be no. Good run in the world.
• 12:38
  It's negotiations for you, isn't it?
• 12:40
  OK, so we're 21 against, but the most terrifying of us of all is
• 12:46
  for it. So let's see how this goes.
• 12:50
  Should we go and watch episode 1?
• 12:54
  Well, if we just, well, frankly, I thought you would protest
• 12:57
  going in and watching it. Well, I was sort of delaying it,
• 13:01
  yeah. But but unfortunately I can
• 13:03
  delay no longer. When was the last time you gave
• 13:06
  this a chance? I tried to watch this this week
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  for this and gave up halfway through episode 2 so I'll be
• 13:14
  winging it. At that point.
• 13:17
  Of course you did. I'm so sorry.
• 13:20
  Yeah. All right.
• 13:21
  Did you either of you 2 watch this for this or you're just
• 13:24
  doing it today? You think?
• 13:27
  I you think I'd rewatch this. You're professionals, you can do
• 13:31
  it on the night. Well, I mean, I've probably
• 13:33
  watched series 5 enough to be fine with it.
• 13:38
  I've seen the state of those Blu rays.
• 13:40
  Yeah, well, let's just say this. Our series one through possibly
• 13:44
  series 6 Blu rays are maybe all scratched.
• 13:49
  Oh really, can I ask, did you scratch the Series 6 DVDs
• 13:55
  through sheer frustration of how terrible that season is?
• 13:58
  I except. For the gold complex.
• 14:01
  Except for the gold complex. Oh, and possibly the Doctor's
• 14:04
  wife as well. I don't think.
• 14:06
  I don't think I did. Oh, OK, well, my thought, you
• 14:09
  know, if they're already scratched, knock yourself out.
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  Can't do. It the only one I know that I
• 14:14
  that I definitely worked to death was the school reunion
• 14:17
  desk. And I'm not, I'm not going to
• 14:19
  reiterate the story of what happened because it's been
• 14:22
  reiterated and. I mean, you got what was that
• 14:25
  School Reunion 2 from Claw and go on a fireplace.
• 14:28
  Oh man, come on, come on. What more reason?
• 14:31
  Do you need to put that to skin? He did watch it repeatedly that
• 14:36
  night that this lead and I don't and School Reunion is.
• 14:40
  A big. Well, to be fair, yeah, I.
• 14:44
  I. Just think I don't, I don't
• 14:46
  think a three-year old watching a disc is going to be going
• 14:49
  online or anything. Or BBC News to check.
• 14:52
  Oh, Doctor Who actress died. No, it was a back the 4th watch
• 14:57
  of School reunion where I just said can you just leave it now
• 15:00
  because it's a bit. Much.
• 15:01
  Oh, I see. You didn't know.
• 15:04
  You did know I You're putting Elizabeth Sladen on a loop and
• 15:09
  you're very upset. Oh boy, oh boy.
• 15:11
  The dynamics in the Arnold house this night were complex indeed.
• 15:21
  Will you tell him off Eddie if he ever starts trance to show
• 15:23
  like that again? Well, now I'm willing to bet
• 15:28
  he's probably going to. Now I'm starting to get here.
• 15:32
  Should we get on with it before before anything goes further?
• 15:36
  Well, why don't you count us in since you're so keen to watch
• 15:41
  this nonsense, why don't you? Count us in.
• 15:43
  I think you're about to put tears in my eyes once.
• 15:45
  Again, well, frankly, because if I can, because if I count you
• 15:48
  All in, all in, you probably have all run away from your
• 15:51
  computers and laptops and whatnot.
• 15:54
  I'm in the right. Mental space to watch Karen
• 15:57
  Gillan and Chris Chibnall script.
• 15:59
  Let's go. And OK in 321.
• 16:06
  Why is it always so bloody chaotic when the three of us
• 16:09
  come together in all the best ways?
• 16:12
  Oh, look at this lovely village. It's.
• 16:15
  Beautiful, isn't it? I think that's where all the
• 16:17
  Callibles lived in her Torchwoods.
• 16:18
  You know, I think it's exactly the same place in Countryside.
• 16:23
  Also written by Chris Chibnall. Oh and and also, why are they
• 16:28
  outside? It's 2020, they should be in
• 16:29
  their houses. Is it 2020?
• 16:32
  This. When did it go out?
• 16:36
  2010, 12,000. Ten.
• 16:37
  Yeah, well, he didn't know 10 years earlier, did he?
• 16:40
  Well, yeah, but it's not. It's not entirely accurate to
• 16:43
  the future though. Do.
• 16:44
  You know, there's a real sort of out in the countryside aesthetic
• 16:48
  2 Series 5, isn't it? After all of those sort of
• 16:51
  London location shoots in Amy's Choice in the 11th hour in this,
• 16:57
  you know, do you know what I mean?
• 16:58
  It's sort of lush greenfields. And it's like and it's like
• 17:01
  literally majority of pandoric is also set literally
• 17:05
  Stonehenge. Oh boy, look at the size of that
• 17:08
  drill. I'm not saying a word.
• 17:09
  All right? I'm not saying.
• 17:16
  OK, so here we have. Now the the couple with the
• 17:19
  least the least chemistry you're.
• 17:22
  Ever going to see Doctor Who? It's what's the man been in?
• 17:28
  He's been in something, hasn't he?
• 17:30
  Doctor Who? Has he?
• 17:34
  No, no, I was thinking it was he in a torture wood was it?
• 17:38
  Yeah, I think he was the one who was the eternal scream.
• 17:41
  That was also a Chris Chippel's A Drift in series 2O My.
• 17:47
  God, that was a horrific watch. But you know, why are you
• 17:50
  reminding us of even? Worse things.
• 17:52
  Sorry, I'm so sorry. Look, he brought up Cyber Woman,
• 17:55
  all right. Oh my.
• 17:59
  God, so, so we've got an enormous drill.
• 18:01
  So that's a bit like Inferno, right?
• 18:05
  A lot of connections to season 7 heroes.
• 18:08
  Also the fact that in the Siloians it said they'd come
• 18:12
  back 50 years later and it's like obviously unit dating
• 18:15
  country and whatnot. But story was released in 1970,
• 18:19
  2020, this 150 years later like Siloians said.
• 18:23
  Have you solved it? Then?
• 18:24
  When's the Siloians set? I don't know, but it's like.
• 18:28
  I thought you had the answers. This could very well be that
• 18:33
  making it that it's set in 1917 and and maybe.
• 18:39
  He's one of my Co stars from Game of Thrones too.
• 18:42
  You have to point this out every time that someone from Game of
• 18:44
  Thrones shows up. Yeah, what this fella?
• 18:49
  Let me see. No, the old car, he'll he'll
• 18:52
  goes. And torture it.
• 18:53
  So every time we're watching a series 9 episode with a shielder
• 18:57
  or flux with vendor he's got to point out this is my Co star
• 19:01
  from Game of Thrones every single time.
• 19:04
  Yeah, I've, I've acted in scenes with Maisie Williams.
• 19:07
  You have? Yeah, you have.
• 19:10
  Yeah, I was, I was in two episodes.
• 19:13
  Game of I was in two episodes Game of Thrones.
• 19:15
  You were in two episodes of Game of Thrones.
• 19:18
  Yes. And he was only a side.
• 19:21
  Are you shitting me? No.
• 19:24
  I'll look, I'll send you a photos later.
• 19:27
  Oh, you weren't the one that brought the Starbucks cup in,
• 19:30
  were you? No.
• 19:34
  We will talk. About this.
• 19:36
  All right, Yeah. What's going on?
• 19:39
  Someone falling into the grass I'm.
• 19:41
  Absolutely floored. John, I didn't know you as an
• 19:44
  actor. You're very and this person is
• 19:46
  also very literally floored. Yeah, I mean, you get it is
• 19:51
  quite effective. Frontiers vibes here.
• 19:54
  People being eaten by the earth. Every time I watch.
• 19:58
  Every time I watch Frontiers I immediately forget it about 5
• 20:00
  minutes after. Well, I funny, I feel that way
• 20:04
  about the hungry. Earth, OH.
• 20:08
  Boy, 3 seconds. In I say I I watched it both
• 20:12
  last year and the year before when we were doing like things
• 20:15
  like sexiest anniversary watch fist doctor.
• 20:18
  I think I'd requested we do Frontiers.
• 20:19
  Didn't remember a single thing when I was going into it last
• 20:22
  year and. If I said this line, was it
• 20:24
  bring back any memories? It was an infection.
• 20:28
  Does that bring back? No, OK.
• 20:32
  The only thing I remember. Crack.
• 20:36
  The only thing I really remember is like the decavitated head on
• 20:38
  the machine. Oh boy, prepare yourself.
• 20:42
  Show here she is, the fiery redhead on the hold.
• 20:46
  Look at that skirt. That is obscene.
• 20:49
  She tracks for Rio. I don't care, she should go back
• 20:53
  in and put some clothes on. Overly sexualising.
• 20:58
  The companions method does it all the time.
• 21:01
  Yeah, it's not. It's not like it's also been
• 21:03
  intentionally done before. I mean, Jesus Christ, she she
• 21:08
  sits on a chair. You're going to get some very
• 21:10
  unfortunate sex education watching this.
• 21:13
  I mean, yeah, did. Did you see the outfits that
• 21:16
  Perry was in in Six Obvious time?
• 21:19
  It's like those were screaming. Oh, I've got something positive
• 21:24
  to say. I love Matt Smith's look in
• 21:28
  series 5 from series 6 onwards. I'm less keen to series 7 when
• 21:32
  he's tailored. No way.
• 21:34
  But like, this sort of scruffy professor is in series.
• 21:37
  Five. It's just the Open University
• 21:38
  look, isn't it? Perfect.
• 21:40
  Why did they change it? It's perfect, he looks.
• 21:42
  Someone who, Yeah, he doesn't understand quite what you know.
• 21:46
  Humans are like it. That's what you need with this
• 21:48
  doctor, I think. Who was that to over the rise
• 21:50
  there waving at them? It's a union, Rory.
• 21:54
  But I know that I'm just provoking conversation.
• 21:58
  I know. Is it ever explained?
• 22:03
  It's a no because it's just, it's at the end of cold blood
• 22:07
  up, isn't it? Where it's just her waving.
• 22:09
  So we're supposed to think they've got a future together
• 22:12
  and actually. Yes, and it's where my father is
• 22:14
  supposed to ruin everyone's imagination like he does every
• 22:17
  single time and ask what could this be for?
• 22:20
  What could that be for? You have to go in and you have
• 22:22
  to butt in and say, oh, it happened because it's super
• 22:25
  logical reason. I don't know really.
• 22:27
  I'll say you've got quite a fine imagination.
• 22:31
  I I I can imagine this and I like I like not knowing what
• 22:36
  comes next, but himself always have to butt in with an
• 22:39
  explanation. It's so on game shows when and
• 22:44
  it's on game shows specifically when we want him to be very
• 22:48
  vocal. What is it?
• 22:49
  He's just going like, no, it's this very it's your connection
• 22:52
  to said question or said answer. And then when I and then when
• 22:57
  we've when both me and my mother have stopped him to ask singing,
• 23:00
  he just keeps singing anyway. Oh, is that right?
• 23:03
  Well, yeah, but, you know, I mean, I, I do understand, Like
• 23:06
  being the annoying one in the house is something I really
• 23:09
  enjoy doing. So, John, please keep going.
• 23:11
  All right, not a problem. Eddie, you're the child.
• 23:16
  You're supposed to be the annoying one, all right.
• 23:18
  Yeah, he's also a child. Well, he's.
• 23:21
  Doing Absolutely. If we're suggesting your father
• 23:25
  ever grew up, let's all laugh now, shall we?
• 23:29
  Oh my God, look, he was. He was getting the ring ready.
• 23:33
  He left it in the TARDIS, didn't he?
• 23:35
  Oh, that's right. Because she finds it then after
• 23:36
  she forgets him. Really, that was a kind of, it's
• 23:40
  kind of a symbol, isn't it, that he's going to dice it?
• 23:42
  It's the same thing as, oh, I've only got a couple of days to
• 23:45
  retirement. That if you're.
• 23:48
  This dress sense is definitely not 2020 though.
• 23:52
  No, it's definitely. 20 Do you know what?
• 23:55
  Did you ever wear one of those puffer jackets that he's got on
• 23:57
  there with no sleeves? I've got one of those.
• 24:01
  Yeah, I think I have one. Ghastly.
• 24:04
  It's like the kids specifically, it's like that yellow jump would
• 24:07
  not be seen today. I I don't think I'd see anyone
• 24:13
  dressed like him. So, so far we've seen again a
• 24:16
  bit of Inferno, a bit of Franzios.
• 24:18
  Obviously the Silurians are coming.
• 24:20
  So that's a bit of the Silurians, don't we?
• 24:22
  Get into the deep. We get an energy bubble around.
• 24:26
  So that's the demons, right? So what?
• 24:29
  What in this is original and is that OK?
• 24:32
  Is that OK if we just make a story out of parts of other
• 24:36
  Doctor Who stories? Because that looks like a mine.
• 24:38
  Of course there's. So it's a bit of green death
• 24:40
  isn't it? With the Welsh sounding in the
• 24:42
  belt, it comes out. Yeah, well, well, to be fair, at
• 24:49
  least a dialogue for original. Christian dialogue is frequently
• 24:54
  original. Do you remember the Wi-Fi
• 24:57
  family, Eddie? No, I don't practically, but I
• 25:03
  just remembered them now do. You know what, fellas?
• 25:05
  It means we're going to have to talk to each other.
• 25:08
  What? To be fair, that's our
• 25:11
  conversation if the Internet goes down.
• 25:12
  Oh, really? That just reminds me, I was in
• 25:19
  when I was doing my watch through last year, what it was,
• 25:22
  I was on Flux or something and more or less on Tarrans I think.
• 25:26
  And Howard just went out. Power just went out like midway
• 25:30
  through or so. Oh, during War of the Sontarans.
• 25:34
  That would make me so sad. I mean, if the power went down
• 25:37
  now, I'll be sad that our conversations ended.
• 25:39
  But I won't be sad that the. Episode then you have to go into
• 25:42
  the other room and talk to your other half and talk to your
• 25:45
  other half and say we have to talk to each other.
• 25:48
  Yeah. Oh, actually, yeah.
• 25:50
  God, have you ever heard him? Jesus Christ.
• 25:52
  Fate. Worse than death, you're.
• 25:56
  Already saying that she's never going to hear it.
• 25:58
  No, we don't listen to this Jesus.
• 26:00
  Christ it used. To it used to and then he sort
• 26:02
  of went. Yeah, somewhere around 500.
• 26:04
  I figured I'd heard everything you had to say.
• 26:06
  Plus, I'll live with you, you know.
• 26:08
  That's enough rude. Bless him for making that much
• 26:12
  effort. Can I ask you both a question
• 26:14
  about Ambrose the Mother, please?
• 26:17
  It's a bit of a leading question, but why is she one of
• 26:20
  the most annoying characters in all of Doctor Who?
• 26:23
  I'll start with you, Eddie. There's definitely more annoying
• 26:27
  characters than Doctor Who. It's like, it's like.
• 26:30
  Frankly 6. Yeah, come on.
• 26:33
  Well, Frank, well frankly I I can name 2 that are good enough
• 26:37
  to make up 6. Oh, come on, the.
• 26:40
  Twins from The Twin Dilemma I. Thought you were talking about
• 26:44
  me and your dad then. Yeah.
• 26:46
  Twins, which is fair. So every time, but when when I
• 26:52
  was watching Twin Dilemma on the watch who I was like every
• 26:55
  single second, I was like, I would not mind if they got
• 26:58
  killed off. I would do it myself.
• 27:01
  Well I mean, I don't disagree with that, but I'd say they're
• 27:04
  on par in terms of annoyingness. She's just so 1 though.
• 27:08
  She's the Gebec of this story. She's just there to get in the
• 27:12
  way all the time, isn't she? And stop things from being
• 27:16
  achieved. Well, at least she's actually
• 27:18
  doing something, unlike those damn twins.
• 27:21
  Oh fellas, watch this now. Amy Pond gets dragged under the
• 27:25
  Earth, Yes. I.
• 27:27
  Thought she died at this point I was throwing a party.
• 27:33
  So Amy Pond going down fanboys. Certain fanboys dream.
• 27:37
  Very dramatic, going down a big hole.
• 27:41
  Oh well, not yet. No.
• 27:42
  Oh, there she goes. Wee yes.
• 27:44
  No, doctor, don't save her. Don't save her.
• 27:49
  No. Come on.
• 27:49
  It's too late. She's gone.
• 27:51
  Oh, well, it's kind of. It is kind of horrific, isn't
• 27:55
  it? Look, I'm taking the.
• 27:57
  Piss It is done quite slowly to start with though.
• 28:02
  So yeah, just we just kind of timed this big dramatic
• 28:05
  conversation. And you know.
• 28:07
  Gillan does do fear well. She's got those enormous
• 28:10
  sorcerer eyes, doesn't she? So she can do fear really well.
• 28:13
  Oh my God, look at me being positive.
• 28:16
  About Amy Pond You're going to get a reputation.
• 28:19
  Well, if anyone could turn me to the ways of a report, just
• 28:22
  Eddie, all right. Who knows, maybe by the annual
• 28:28
  Week 1 the top support. Of this story, you've got no
• 28:32
  hope. I can't hold on.
• 28:35
  Oh no. See, Amy's ego is so heavy.
• 28:40
  Yeah, that even that enormous drill can't pull her out of the
• 28:43
  ground. It's really slow this sequence,
• 28:49
  isn't it? I mean, slow as in that's quite
• 28:51
  scary. Tell Rory.
• 28:54
  Eddie. What?
• 28:56
  What would you? Say if you was being sort of
• 28:58
  pulled under the ground like this, thought you were going to
• 29:00
  die, what would your last words be for me to tell your family?
• 29:04
  Frankly, I frankly that's also depending on if anyone else.
• 29:08
  Was around. Yeah, me.
• 29:09
  I'm trying to pull you out. You've got literally 5 seconds
• 29:12
  to tell me your last words. Go.
• 29:17
  I. Would I would leave you with
• 29:24
  never trust my father. Oh.
• 29:26
  I thought you were just going to say F you.
• 29:32
  I'm not, I wouldn't be that my. Dad.
• 29:34
  I wouldn't be that mean to you, Joe.
• 29:36
  It's it's only tomorrow. I'm used to it already.
• 29:39
  See, he's so nice. Your dad, you don't really get
• 29:41
  people being mean about him. Him.
• 29:43
  Nice. Yeah.
• 29:45
  Are you joking? Yeah.
• 29:46
  Well, you know, April Fools. It was a few months ago now.
• 29:51
  What am I missing, John? Are you an absolute monster?
• 29:54
  When you're not on these goals. Well, yeah, when someone barges
• 30:01
  in when you're about to go to sleep, you're not.
• 30:03
  Yeah. You know, we might need to get a
• 30:06
  consensus opinion, you know, and get Carolyn on one of these as
• 30:09
  well. You're right.
• 30:12
  Oh, the the family? Arnold discussed.
• 30:16
  Doctor Who? Anyone else?
• 30:19
  Your granny. Let's get them all in.
• 30:21
  Go on. Let's get Juno in dog.
• 30:24
  She'll be in. Great.
• 30:27
  Well she she'd make more sense in either of you 2 though.
• 30:30
  Well. My my mum's favorite is the
• 30:32
  visitation, so I don't know. Now I'm talking about you now.
• 30:37
  Oh yeah. Always piss.
• 30:39
  Look how pissed the doctor is. I'm never too convinced when
• 30:44
  Matt Smith tries to be angry because he just looks like a
• 30:46
  Kitty wink. Who's that sweet he's taking off
• 30:48
  him? I'm trying to think.
• 30:50
  He's a bit Sylvester McCall, isn't he on that one, doesn't
• 30:52
  he? Anger.
• 30:53
  I'm I'm just more trying to think it's like this.
• 30:56
  This also isn't very original as well considering the Doctor has
• 31:00
  been very angered at other companions going down before as
• 31:03
  well. It's like, can't think of the
• 31:06
  story off top of my head right now, but it's like, it's like,
• 31:12
  did you see him in like, I can't think of anything.
• 31:16
  Do you remember which story? Oh, sorry, go on.
• 31:20
  Which story you wanted didn't Do you know what happened?
• 31:23
  No, no, I know. I know story names.
• 31:27
  I think I can name them, but yeah, it's not.
• 31:31
  I'm trying to think, oh wait, when's the time?
• 31:34
  Like a companion died and the Doctor was insanely angry about
• 31:38
  it. Well.
• 31:41
  Heaven said. Well, you mentioned that
• 31:42
  already. Well, yeah, but that's just
• 31:44
  boring. Well, yes it is.
• 31:46
  Look at your. Father.
• 31:48
  World, world. Enough in time.
• 31:50
  Oh, please, let's not talk about that.
• 31:54
  Oh, I'll blow a hole in you all right.
• 31:56
  Yeah, what? What did?
• 31:58
  I I the time to approach and accept.
• 32:00
  Well, never mind, let's get on with it.
• 32:02
  Come on. What So are you?
• 32:04
  Are you suggesting that they brought Mae Sealy onto the
• 32:07
  spaceship at the in Black Hole? Now you are.
• 32:11
  Talking, yes. I mean.
• 32:14
  If she'd come out the lift, yeah.
• 32:18
  My husband's about, you know. Oh, I've got one.
• 32:22
  What about Face the Raven? When When Clara dies, Face the
• 32:25
  Ravens. He's he's really.
• 32:26
  Angry at the end of that. And it's a Glaswegian being.
• 32:31
  Angry. Yeah.
• 32:34
  Well, yeah, but then again, he only gets about two minutes to
• 32:36
  do that before he gets teleported West.
• 32:38
  Yeah, alas, now I'm reminded of arachnids in the UK.
• 32:43
  Now hear me out, all right? I don't remind you about that.
• 32:46
  What? I love it.
• 32:48
  I love arachnids in the. UK, but it's right.
• 32:50
  Good bits, but it's. Confronted with an enormous hole
• 32:54
  in the floor. Yeah.
• 32:56
  What Jodie does is she goes, oh, wow, I just jumped straight down
• 32:59
  into it to see what's down there.
• 33:01
  Matt Smith just hangs around up here for the whole episode.
• 33:05
  Why didn't he just jump down after her?
• 33:07
  He should, because he's exactly that kind of puppy dog like Jody
• 33:10
  isn't. He's got that same energy.
• 33:11
  Don't. You remember when she was
• 33:12
  hanging down the hole going a big spider?
• 33:17
  No, no I don't. No, I don't, because I've tried
• 33:19
  to raise every single thing about that for.
• 33:21
  My right Oh. That could be you 2 against me
• 33:23
  coming in the future. A rat is in the UK.
• 33:26
  Star and family Arnold and John, yes.
• 33:32
  I, I was gent. I I think out of, out of or
• 33:36
  watch through, I was able to watch through everything fine.
• 33:39
  Like even the sexy stuff I could watch through fine, but it's
• 33:41
  like specifically some of some of series 11 including arachnids
• 33:46
  in the UK and very specifically arachnids in the UKI was
• 33:49
  literally struggling to watch through that.
• 33:52
  Well, you don't have to worry about it idea because I should
• 33:54
  tell you where you're going wrong when we do the commentary.
• 33:57
  OK, I'll give you a full education on what?
• 33:59
  Lasting year What? Blasting underground rap music
• 34:02
  to get spiders out? Oh.
• 34:04
  Stonesy Yeah, Stonesy's not underground.
• 34:07
  Yeah, it's it's. Mainstream.
• 34:10
  Yeah, he's so mainstream. I hadn't heard of him until a
• 34:12
  few years ago. What?
• 34:14
  All I've got to say is this, all right?
• 34:16
  If I've got to sit here and watch this bloody nonsense, all
• 34:19
  right, you've got to watch that. That's a fair deal in my book.
• 34:28
  Oh, what's going on now? Oh, OK, so who's created this
• 34:31
  energy barrier around the village?
• 34:34
  The demons. The demons as well, are they OK?
• 34:40
  God, cut the shit off from the rest of the world and no one
• 34:43
  will see. You have to see.
• 34:45
  It ever. How are they doing this?
• 34:47
  Right. No, it's no.
• 34:49
  My head count is just just in an alternate, in a sort of more
• 34:52
  alternate timeline and it's just the government isolating them
• 34:55
  because they're outside during COVID.
• 34:58
  But it is a problem as well, right?
• 34:59
  That this in no way feels like a habitated area, does it?
• 35:05
  It feels like some derelict village that they've gone to
• 35:07
  fill within. I mean to be fit.
• 35:10
  Where's everyone else in those houses?
• 35:12
  Exactly. In the demons they came out,
• 35:14
  didn't they go, oh, what's that fella over there and that
• 35:16
  sacrificial rapping doing tied up to that maypole?
• 35:19
  Those houses are boarded up. Yeah, exactly.
• 35:22
  It just it doesn't convince me. And yet the the mother and the
• 35:25
  kid are still there. Really would if they have this
• 35:27
  big toxicant project, they'd leave them there.
• 35:29
  Was there a reason why it's all boarded up?
• 35:31
  Is that in the script? Did they cover it with a lion?
• 35:36
  Possibly. I don't think I'd pay no
• 35:39
  attention to it. I I My brain melted in horror.
• 35:44
  I'll tell you what to join the Doctor.
• 35:48
  Something very kind about Matt Smith.
• 35:51
  They are awake. This this.
• 35:54
  That's it. I'm not going to say it now.
• 35:56
  That was your one chance to hear something nice about Matt Smith,
• 35:58
  and now I'm done. No, I'm going to say.
• 36:01
  It say it say it. No, no, it's just that I really
• 36:03
  think in five he was really trying.
• 36:05
  It's the Tom Baker season 12 effect.
• 36:07
  He didn't know whether he was going to be a hit or not, and
• 36:10
  you could see how much effort he's putting in.
• 36:11
  I think he does give some good performances in six and seven,
• 36:15
  but he knows he's a hit by then and I think both the writing and
• 36:18
  his performance, it is a massive step down from 5.
• 36:23
  He. The problem to me is he's a
• 36:25
  young actor, so he doesn't know enough to vary the performance
• 36:28
  in Six and seven. I don't know.
• 36:29
  He sticks with what he knows. And they write the ticks up, you
• 36:34
  know, they just get sort of bigger.
• 36:35
  They play into it totally, yeah. Oh, Oh well, two fit.
• 36:39
  And at least, unlike Tom Baker's first series, this one was good.
• 36:44
  What series 5I mean? There's good stuff in five, I
• 36:47
  won't argue that. Time of Angels 11th hour.
• 36:51
  Yeah, unlike season 12 where there's basically nothing that
• 36:55
  I'd say particularly stands out. Thanks, robots.
• 36:59
  That's the robots. That's the rest of the audience
• 37:01
  just switched off there. Thanks for that.
• 37:05
  Robots may be the only thing. That robot's the only thing I'd
• 37:09
  ever consider rewatching willingly.
• 37:11
  Wait, did win the strictly, you know, robot?
• 37:13
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 37:15
  Thumbs up to Daniel for that one.
• 37:17
  Oh wait, no, the awakening. We're in a church.
• 37:20
  Or is it the demons again? Both.
• 37:22
  Oh, it's the demons. It it's purple so it's the
• 37:25
  demons. I thought triple dip was was
• 37:27
  around today. This wasn't here.
• 37:28
  Cool so. Yeah, I think that might be
• 37:31
  quite nice if they'd hung a Lantern on it, you know, if the
• 37:33
  Doctor had gone. My God.
• 37:34
  Just like Devil's End. Oh, a bit like the Inferno
• 37:37
  Project, you know, if he was actually pointing it out.
• 37:41
  Well, to well, to be fair there, there have been other points
• 37:44
  where I've wanted stuff. It's like, why did, why didn't
• 37:47
  the doctor go and point out and the devil's called, oh, I've
• 37:49
  seen these guys before on a futuristic time scan.
• 37:53
  Are you sure we didn't? That sounds like exactly the
• 37:55
  sort of line you get in RTD too. Yeah, I'm sure.
• 37:59
  I'm sure he didn't. I was frankly kicked off that no
• 38:02
  mansion of oh, we we saw a live performance of him.
• 38:07
  That was the only remaining thing of the earliest days.
• 38:10
  On top of the parts. No, we didn't see that at all.
• 38:13
  This is my first time ever seeing them and apparently I've
• 38:16
  been on the Titanic before even though I actually haven't.
• 38:19
  Oh, top of the Pop City. I'll tell you what.
• 38:21
  Should we turn this off and watch that instead?
• 38:24
  That might be quite fun. Yeah.
• 38:25
  See. Yeah, well, I mean, I, I'm
• 38:28
  usually in the room and he's watching it every Friday anyway.
• 38:30
  I can't. I, I'm, I'm too.
• 38:34
  I'm instantly turned away by the 90s stuff.
• 38:37
  It's like anything else I can watch.
• 38:39
  What? Are you doing for Joe?
• 38:42
  I'm quite enjoying the ones that are going out right now
• 38:44
  actually. Where are we 99?
• 38:46
  9898. Where on earth does Ambrose have
• 38:50
  a Taser? She just went.
• 38:51
  Oh, yeah, we were told we had to defend ourselves.
• 38:54
  Excuse me. Why did you stay then?
• 38:56
  If you. Had to defend yourselves for
• 38:59
  where you live. It's actually does sees me with
• 39:04
  these guys who just kind of wings it on the plotting.
• 39:07
  Well, he doesn't. She needs the Taser because she
• 39:09
  needs to attack the Silurian. But it's such a bad reason for
• 39:13
  it. There's nothing underneath it
• 39:15
  the the logic just isn't there. It's like that fellow who
• 39:19
  carries the microwave around in resolution.
• 39:21
  You know, like waiting for a microwave to be relevant.
• 39:25
  Yeah, well, how do you how do you know that she hasn't been
• 39:28
  visited before and she hasn't needed a tase here?
• 39:31
  Which, to be fair, she does strike me as a sort of person
• 39:34
  that would carry a Taser. She's so awful.
• 39:36
  And, and how do you know she was the police officer at some point
• 39:39
  in her past? Can I ask you both a question
• 39:42
  again, please? Yeah, right.
• 39:44
  What is Moffett's obsession with horrible kiddie winks like this
• 39:49
  one? I mean, look at him.
• 39:50
  You just want to throw him down that hole, don't you?
• 39:54
  Well, he's not. He's not.
• 39:56
  Kids. Has he given them work?
• 39:59
  Has he? Yeah, and and they modelled on
• 40:02
  his own kids. He's Scottish, he's bought them
• 40:04
  up. They're going to be sarky
• 40:06
  bastards back to him. It's it's come with the Celtic
• 40:09
  types as you can see. This is an awkward sort of
• 40:12
  question when your son is on this very call that we're
• 40:15
  talking about. But like Celtic types as a
• 40:18
  father, yeah. Yeah, Do you want this?
• 40:23
  You literally live at home all day with a young man.
• 40:26
  Yeah, right. Who's by, by all accounts,
• 40:29
  constantly questioning you and insulting you.
• 40:32
  Yeah. So why do you want to spend your
• 40:33
  time with them in Doctor Who? They're not him, that's why,
• 40:41
  yeah. Well, Oh well, at least at least
• 40:45
  answer. Back.
• 40:48
  Come on, Eddie, now's your chance.
• 40:49
  Come on, rebut him. Oh well, at least at least the
• 40:53
  kids I suppose aren't to for aren't like, you know, outdated
• 40:59
  classic series the chance like it fathers.
• 41:05
  If if you was in a Doctor Who episode now, then I might be
• 41:08
  invested, you know, But they, they're all so gormless.
• 41:12
  I mean, look at this kid. I don't mean to be mean about
• 41:15
  children. I mean, I do, but God, they're.
• 41:18
  Annoying Joe, we've all heard. It they're all annoying.
• 41:21
  I mean, just put them all in the shower and turn the gas on.
• 41:24
  Come on. Oh, sorry, did I say that out
• 41:26
  loud? Sorry, sorry.
• 41:30
  No. No, no.
• 41:32
  I've said worse. In in fairness, you are.
• 41:34
  You are thinking of the whole cast of the era with that,
• 41:37
  aren't you? No, all the I mean, think of
• 41:40
  children from the Moffett era. They're not one of them.
• 41:43
  That whole bunch from In the Forest of the Night, Angie and
• 41:46
  Artie. I'm surprised you didn't say,
• 41:50
  oh, let's let's just put them all in children at birth.
• 41:52
  They can go to the alien from that instead.
• 41:56
  Oh yes please. Oh, that girl that sings the
• 41:58
  song in the beast below? Man, she'd go in the chamber
• 42:01
  first. Oh, the kid from the Crimson
• 42:04
  Horror who does the TomTom joke? In the gas chamber.
• 42:09
  Sorry, all of them. Oh my God, the pair from The
• 42:13
  pair from. Doctor, the widow and the
• 42:16
  wardrobe, the one with the massive specs are.
• 42:20
  Cyril and Thingy, yes. Jesus, I suppose you haven't
• 42:24
  said honourable mention. Just Chuck him in with him as
• 42:26
  well. Oh, it's you are full of great
• 42:29
  ideas, do you know? Please, I wish you was just in
• 42:33
  my life all the time, you know, with those sort of ideas.
• 42:37
  Well, I'm sorry, I've lost control of the story.
• 42:39
  What's happening? Well, you probably, you probably
• 42:42
  would have done this anyway if you're watching on the road.
• 42:45
  What dreams about murdering children?
• 42:48
  Probably, yeah. Oh well.
• 42:50
  And and Amy. Oh well, all all of a sudden
• 42:52
  it's apparently a night time. Why?
• 42:55
  Is that? Because they darkened it.
• 42:59
  Oh my God, what's that sinister silhouette running through the
• 43:01
  graveyard? Is it Bach from the demons?
• 43:06
  No, I think it's Amy coming back for avenge.
• 43:11
  Fate worse than definitely. I mean.
• 43:14
  This stuff is quite atmospheric I can't deny.
• 43:16
  Like it's well shot this but. What are those glowy headphones?
• 43:22
  Those in most 20. 10 That's what he's gone and gone, that's what
• 43:26
  he went out to get. But of course, we don't know at
• 43:30
  this point. There's Solaris, do we?
• 43:32
  It's called the Hungry Earth. It's not called.
• 43:34
  The hungry Silurian. So it's supposed to be a
• 43:36
  surprise. Yeah.
• 43:37
  Except it had been teased in the tease trailers for.
• 43:40
  It it's there for the mass audience, yeah.
• 43:42
  How has it? Had they done that already?
• 43:44
  Yeah. Yeah, it's like, it's like.
• 43:46
  The fans knew it, but. And and also like on that one
• 43:50
  where they were lying on the hill in that trailer and they
• 43:52
  got bunked down in to vortexing and all the villains came along
• 43:57
  and it's like right at the end they just got pushed, pushed up
• 44:01
  by a sign there in face appearing out the ground, I
• 44:05
  suspect. Oh.
• 44:09
  Yes. Kill Ambrose.
• 44:10
  Yes. Do you know when she was walking
• 44:11
  through that graveyard? Yeah.
• 44:12
  You know, those sort of comedy skits where people fall into
• 44:15
  graves that have been dug? I was hoping that was going to
• 44:17
  happen. I think Fraser likes this so
• 44:19
  much, right? Not just because he's a madman
• 44:21
  and champion of the damned. It's because he's, forgive me,
• 44:24
  John, He's a father as well. And I think he absolutely sees
• 44:30
  himself in Ambrose that sort of fierce determination to protect.
• 44:36
  His children. At least he was the only one
• 44:38
  with taste on the season 7 podcast when he agreed with me.
• 44:43
  Please. Don't say that on a call, all
• 44:45
  right? Please.
• 44:46
  He might hear this. Oh, but Eddie, if he does hear
• 44:51
  it, Walks or Crow songs. Frankly, I don't remember enough
• 44:57
  about the Crotons to talk about. Everyone says quarks.
• 45:01
  Everyone always says quarks. Oh.
• 45:03
  My God, that's the right answer. Now look.
• 45:05
  Why does Matt Smith look cool in sunglasses in a way that Peter
• 45:08
  Capaldi does not? Is it because he's a young man?
• 45:12
  Yes. Also, Peter Capaldi is
• 45:13
  deliberately being that out of such grand like guy who thinks
• 45:17
  he's caught so but he's just so. It's equally as nerdy as Smith.
• 45:22
  I think I'll find Capaldi cringe because basically it reminds me
• 45:26
  of me right now going for a midlife crisis, you know?
• 45:30
  OK. Look at these POV specs of sort
• 45:33
  of ultra ultraviolet light. He just then felt the next
• 45:37
  episode. I did.
• 45:39
  No, he did. What phrase?
• 45:41
  Doctor did. No, the doctor did I.
• 45:44
  Don't know we're talking. About anymore.
• 45:47
  No. Yeah.
• 45:49
  Are you, are you just trying to stay away from the episode that
• 45:51
  much? No, what but my problem is this
• 45:54
  yeah, is that there is incident on the screen, there is action
• 45:57
  and there's a bit of atmosphere, right.
• 45:59
  Good, good, good. But none of it's original in a
• 46:02
  in a season that has has strived to be innovative and to be
• 46:07
  completely different from the RTD era and classic Doctor Who,
• 46:12
  this whopping great 2 parter in the middle of the season, you
• 46:16
  know, which is just this sort of desperate lovely at a classic
• 46:20
  Who. And it's so.
• 46:21
  Odd. And and the Rory just hopping
• 46:24
  out the van, the ambassadors of death when the ambassador's
• 46:27
  getting out the back of the van. Oh, watch this bit.
• 46:30
  Now she wakes up right? And Doctor Death, the Silurian
• 46:34
  scientist, comes up to her at one point.
• 46:36
  I'm sure I'm sure this is probably your least favorite
• 46:39
  frame ever, having to see Amy's face.
• 46:41
  No, she's buried alive. It's absolutely blissful.
• 46:46
  Yeah. That's that's solid with
• 46:49
  scientist who is a redeemed hero by the end.
• 46:51
  If I remember right. It's like what?
• 46:53
  Yeah, so. So he's.
• 46:54
  Yeah. He comes up to her later on with
• 46:56
  a scalpel, and in the next 1, he goes, oh, hello.
• 46:59
  You know, I'm the scientist. What?
• 47:01
  Like what? Now look at her being gassed.
• 47:07
  This is exactly how we do it. FIFA, I think if I was in that
• 47:15
  claustrophobic place. Oh Eddie, I suffer from
• 47:18
  claustrophobia quite badly, so I would be, and I had a terrible
• 47:22
  panic if I was in there. I don't think I suffer from it
• 47:26
  too badly, but if I was in something that then I would be
• 47:29
  screaming for my I. Wonder if it would be more
• 47:33
  effective if Rory had gone down because I think at this point in
• 47:37
  the season, yeah, Amy Pond was quite a divisive character,
• 47:41
  especially after the end of the Angels two parter and how she
• 47:45
  was treating Rory in The Vampires of Venice.
• 47:48
  But you love the purse of the fall guy, right?
• 47:50
  Everybody loves the fall guy. And so if Rory had gone down and
• 47:54
  it was the Doctor and Amy trying to get down to him, I think that
• 47:57
  would have more weight to it than.
• 47:59
  Well, yeah, but then again, that would mean Amy's not buried
• 48:01
  alive and getting tortured. Oh yeah, you're right.
• 48:05
  But Rory is, and he's a nice guy coming bad things happen to him.
• 48:08
  Did you know what's so? Funny about this scene, they
• 48:11
  take the mask off the Silurian and I remember going, well,
• 48:14
  what's that like? I don't recognise that.
• 48:19
  Did you realise straight away? Oh yeah.
• 48:23
  Because he says it. He says it all right.
• 48:25
  Because he. Yeah, because he said it's
• 48:27
  different branch of the same species.
• 48:29
  Well, fellas, it's time for us to talk about redesigns in the
• 48:33
  Moffett era and why they're generally terrible.
• 48:36
  Let's talk about the Daleks, let's talk about the Zygons, and
• 48:39
  let's talk about the Silurians. Are you are you guessing the
• 48:42
  paradigm? The Macy's Bubble Bath Daleks.
• 48:46
  Yes, I am. Well, that was allegedly Piers
• 48:49
  Wenger bought that. He was a faint of company,
• 48:51
  didn't he? You can.
• 48:53
  Piss like off then if you're guessing those.
• 48:57
  It's terrible. See you later, folks.
• 48:59
  Don't mess with don't mess with that silhouette.
• 49:02
  It's it's just that bump on the back.
• 49:05
  They just look comical though, where Whereas here I think I
• 49:09
  don't. I think this looks like a bad
• 49:11
  Star Trek The Next Generation mask rather than an alien.
• 49:15
  You know, like the the. Detail is good.
• 49:19
  It's got more detail than a Star Trek.
• 49:21
  Wait, 4 headies? I grant you 4 headies.
• 49:26
  Rabbit Wrinkle and. I think the only thing that I'm
• 49:31
  not too keen on here is the fact it's not got a third eye at the
• 49:34
  top or anything so. That was the best thing about
• 49:38
  the original. Yeah, yeah, except, and it means
• 49:40
  Silurians can't make the Doctor shake to death at the
• 49:43
  cliffhanger. But it's like, OK, God, Oh my,
• 49:47
  you guys are going to come for me when I say this, it's like
• 49:50
  the Mondasian Cybermen in world nothing time yet they just get
• 49:55
  it so wrong because the whole point of them in the Ted planet
• 49:58
  was they were made-up out of a kitchen drawer.
• 50:00
  They were desperate. They look really ropey.
• 50:03
  You can see the eyes and in one of a time they look polished and
• 50:07
  they look clean and it's just totally wrong.
• 50:10
  It's not what those Cybermen are about.
• 50:12
  And I think that's what's happening here as well, is
• 50:14
  they're misunderstanding what was so great about the
• 50:17
  originals. I mean, frankly, I to be fair, I
• 50:19
  didn't even know you could see the ice in the Cyberman from
• 50:22
  10/5 to a couple weeks ago. I mean, you're not supposed to
• 50:25
  be able to, but that just makes them more scary.
• 50:27
  I. Mean it's like I I don't think.
• 50:29
  Just. About it, yeah.
• 50:31
  It's. Terrifying.
• 50:32
  I mean, do you think this is a good redesign, John?
• 50:37
  It's. Fine.
• 50:39
  It's it's kind of a compromise with modern TV.
• 50:43
  It's because you're not going to get away with the, you know, the
• 50:45
  mask from the sun of unions in the modern day.
• 50:47
  Come on. But I think there's a way you
• 50:49
  could update them and make them look more so, whereas I just
• 50:52
  think that looks so bog standard trick.
• 50:55
  Oh well it at least we thought it was cool.
• 50:58
  See if it if it was made not easy to, it would probably be a
• 51:00
  giant CGI crab or something. Is this the woman who plays
• 51:04
  Madame Vastre? Yeah.
• 51:06
  Leave Macintosh. OK.
• 51:08
  Another problem with the. Moffett era.
• 51:09
  They just have the same actor playing every single bloody
• 51:12
  character. Dan Starkey playing Wolf
• 51:14
  Sontarans as well. That never got.
• 51:17
  I only did it. I only found it, I think it was
• 51:21
  last year, before Dan Starkey went to school with one of my
• 51:23
  best mates when I was a kid. Oh, did he?
• 51:26
  Yeah, see, he went to the private school like up the road
• 51:31
  and he was like, and that's where my friend went is.
• 51:33
  Like, do you know what? I know somebody right who knows
• 51:37
  the nanny who looked after Steven Moffitt when he was a
• 51:40
  youngin? Well.
• 51:42
  Have you got, have you got the gossip?
• 51:43
  Come on. Yeah.
• 51:44
  Apparently he was the right mummy.
• 51:45
  'S boy, I went yeah, that explains everything of Harry
• 51:51
  wasn't too far from his mother's Lloyd, I'll say yeah.
• 51:54
  Like yes. I get it, I get it.
• 51:56
  Yeah, I heard all sorts about him as a kid.
• 51:58
  It was great. Off.
• 52:00
  Mike off Mike. Exactly.
• 52:03
  Yeah, yeah, maybe it's not best to go and tell Moffat that he
• 52:06
  knows entire childhood now. OK, I realise I'm just sort of
• 52:10
  listing 1,000,000 problems with this story, but Mira Syow, OK, a
• 52:14
  very funny comedian. I think she's an incredible
• 52:18
  actress. Totally miscast in this.
• 52:22
  Wasted is the one I'd I'd go with.
• 52:24
  What? And because she's so cash, she
• 52:26
  looks like a comedy actress who's just wandered in.
• 52:30
  Yeah, even the costume is like quite, you know, the boots are
• 52:32
  at that point. It's like, yeah, Trisha.
• 52:36
  I've never seen him in anything else so.
• 52:38
  Oh, go and watch. Goodness gracious me.
• 52:40
  She's fabulous in that. Oh, going for the English what a
• 52:44
  is. She the old.
• 52:47
  Woman in that I think she is, Yeah.
• 52:49
  No, the Kumars, the old woman from the.
• 52:51
  Kumars. Oh yeah, Yeah, she's the old
• 52:52
  woman with the Kumars. Yeah, she's hilarious.
• 52:54
  I'll send you some clips. It's very funny.
• 52:57
  At least she's not. At least she's not as miscast as
• 52:59
  my father on this podcast. Well, or your father in Game of
• 53:03
  Thrones. That's still pretty determined
• 53:05
  when I watched. The episode I was the tallest
• 53:07
  and Sully they'd ever had on me. Oh, Oh well, I was solid.
• 53:11
  It was awesome. It was awesome, even mine.
• 53:14
  He was also only a side character, so he's.
• 53:16
  I went method, yeah, I went method acting to that part of
• 53:20
  having, you know. Yeah, he was.
• 53:21
  He was. I've heard some people say that
• 53:25
  Mira Sayao should have been a companion on the strength of
• 53:28
  this performance. I'm like, really Like Catherine
• 53:31
  Tate is given a performance as a comedian in the Bruno McBride.
• 53:35
  Mira Sayao has just shown up. She, she's trying to ring stuff
• 53:42
  out of these lines, isn't she? You know, with the arms folding.
• 53:46
  That's probably also another reason why that's probably also
• 53:50
  another. Reason that enthusiasm.
• 53:53
  Thanks for cutting me off multiple times again.
• 53:55
  Please. Sorry your point Eddie.
• 53:58
  So probably another reason why I'm OK with her performance.
• 54:01
  This probably because it is the only thing I've seen with her
• 54:04
  that I know of. That could be true actually.
• 54:08
  That this is the only thing I'm going off of.
• 54:11
  Like this is a point you do bring your own prior experiences
• 54:15
  to it. And yeah.
• 54:16
  But like, I've seen many, many, many, especially in the new
• 54:19
  series sequences of, of characters coming into the
• 54:23
  TARDIS for the first time, right?
• 54:25
  And being amazed and bewildered and angry and shocked and all
• 54:27
  those things. She just walked him and slapped
• 54:29
  him on the back like Mira Saya would do if she was visiting the
• 54:32
  set. You know, it feels like 2 actors
• 54:35
  and she's going, oh wow, is this where you work?
• 54:37
  You know, so strange. It's got now I remember it's
• 54:46
  like it's like as well as well as that that's probably going to
• 54:50
  influence my opinion on he's just been Matt Smith just been
• 54:54
  announced to be in a Star Wars film in a couple of years as
• 54:56
  well. So that's probably going to
• 54:58
  influence how I view Matt Smith in whenever I see that film.
• 55:03
  So how? Are you?
• 55:04
  They're never going to make it. They might have announced you.
• 55:08
  You haven't seen types of the dragon head, so.
• 55:11
  Yeah, to be fair, I'm probably glad I haven't.
• 55:13
  Well. So we've positioned this story
• 55:17
  now. OK, so we we, we've got, what's
• 55:19
  her name, the saloon woman. Ellea.
• 55:22
  Ellea, thank you. And we've got the mother, Yeah.
• 55:25
  Who? And the son's been kidnapped, is
• 55:27
  that right? Or someone's been kidnapped?
• 55:31
  So the son thinking back. So we're in a position now where
• 55:33
  the mother's pissed, and if the person potentially responsible
• 55:37
  is banged up, oh, I wonder what's going to happen.
• 55:42
  Get that? That's what I'm trying.
• 55:44
  To do Oh, green Derf, you're right.
• 55:45
  Yeah, Yeah. Literally if he's the green.
• 55:47
  Well, have an idea, Chris Chibnall, for God's sakes.
• 55:54
  Is there one? Is there one original idea in
• 55:57
  this? I dress for real.
• 56:04
  No, that's a Steven Moffett line.
• 56:06
  Christianel never wrote that. Yeah, no, no, back back to the
• 56:10
  start of it when they had those two waving for the future.
• 56:12
  That's Day of the Daleks, isn't it as well.
• 56:15
  Oh my God, look at these cave sets.
• 56:18
  It is worse than the Daleks. I mean, look at them.
• 56:21
  Sophiat it's so bad. Is it the lighting that just?
• 56:26
  Makes it I think it is the light, but there's the walls
• 56:29
  look like jabber light don't. They, yeah, they look
• 56:32
  artificial. They there's no weight to them,
• 56:35
  is there? I've got to be bold and say when
• 56:37
  Revenge of the Cybermen has got more convincing caves than you,
• 56:41
  be scared. Well, they did film an actual
• 56:45
  cave for that. Well, hello, they have the
• 56:47
  budget here. Wookie Howe was waiting, and
• 56:51
  they were. You've got the Danner Ogoth
• 56:55
  Caves clubs where they filmed the Pirate planet as well.
• 56:58
  So I'm I'm just more gobsmacked that you're not liking I've
• 57:02
  really liked them so you 2 can just piss the hell off.
• 57:08
  Well, I mean, we're so used to these sort of terrible cave sets
• 57:11
  in Doctor Who, but like, the ones in Earth Shock look better
• 57:14
  than that. They're better lit.
• 57:18
  Yes, that. It's a direction thing, isn't
• 57:20
  it? Excuse me, why is that man's
• 57:22
  shirt been left open like that? I mean, that is completely
• 57:25
  unnecessary. Oh, it's the show.
• 57:27
  He's been lacerated. Yeah, he's been cut open by
• 57:30
  Doctor Death, actually. Do you know what I've realised?
• 57:35
  Karen Gillan's literally been in about 10 minutes of this
• 57:37
  episode. Blissful.
• 57:39
  I'm convinced, Eddie. But maybe you should come back
• 57:42
  to liking the FS. I absolutely.
• 57:45
  I will say this, I think this is the superior episode of the two.
• 57:49
  I still would. Only give it I would.
• 57:51
  Only give it like a 5 out of 10 but it's the better.
• 57:54
  That's better than a four out of 10.
• 57:56
  No, no the. Second one would get like a 2.
• 57:58
  It's. Terrible.
• 57:59
  Better than a one out of 10. I love how you see a glass half
• 58:03
  full all the time. My God, what are they seeing?
• 58:11
  Look at Matt Smith. He looks like he's seeing his
• 58:13
  contract for the first time. My God.
• 58:14
  How much are you paying me? How much less than Tennant?
• 58:20
  Now I think that is a very ambitious special effects shot
• 58:23
  that has not dated well. I still like it.
• 58:27
  To be fair, it's not a great clear.
• 58:29
  Fact. Here, it's nice what they're
• 58:31
  trying to do, but nowadays, you know, slap some Disney money in.
• 58:36
  You'd be swooping through, wouldn't you?
• 58:38
  All the lava pits. Cinematic.
• 58:42
  Yeah. And I'm just like, I'm just
• 58:44
  thinking, yeah, the one point I will agree on is not a great
• 58:48
  Cliff hanger. Now, well, it's just sort of
• 58:52
  like, well, yeah, we knew. We knew what was underground.
• 58:55
  Why are you telling us? Oh, look, we're going to get a
• 58:57
  little peek into what we're going to watch next week.
• 58:59
  Stroke in 10 minutes. Oh, my God, A whole army of
• 59:04
  silers, or five at least. Oh, did you notice the?
• 59:10
  Gun template piece again. Template piece again.
• 59:13
  Crazy even the locations aren't original.
• 59:17
  Oh, sorry, those trumpet guns are really.
• 59:19
  Bad. They can drop those fairly
• 59:24
  quickly. Didn't.
• 59:25
  They Eddie, now we've been really mean throughout this
• 59:27
  whole episode, so now is your chance to tell us before we end
• 59:31
  the episode where we're going wrong.
• 59:34
  Everywhere. Anything specific?
• 59:39
  Well, especially why do you dislike those caves?
• 59:41
  The caves are really good. Cheap.
• 59:48
  Unconvincing. Yeah, bad line.
• 59:52
  About to to be fair, I I I can't.
• 59:56
  My father can't really say much about cheap and unconvincing
• 59:59
  counting. It's like he joined some.
• 1:00:01
  It's like you call his room a podcast room.
• 1:00:04
  I I call it literally just an an empty room full of boxes, which
• 1:00:09
  it very literally is. Excuse me when you say cheap.
• 1:00:13
  There are. There are two copies of The
• 1:00:14
  Dying Days. Yeah, there's a lung Barrow, so
• 1:00:19
  by the scene. You know, you're not even
• 1:00:21
  mentioned. You're not even mentioning your.
• 1:00:23
  You're not even mentioning your old Wheeling Space book.
• 1:00:27
  No, yeah, there's a Wheeling space to.
• 1:00:29
  They ain't worth nothing anymore.
• 1:00:32
  No. Well, I will say some nice
• 1:00:35
  things about the Hungry Earth because I think Amy being
• 1:00:38
  dragged down that hole was quite horrific.
• 1:00:41
  I think the location work on the hole was quite nice.
• 1:00:45
  Yeah, you saw Amy being trashed down.
• 1:00:47
  I saw it was a godsend, Frank. It was wonderful.
• 1:00:50
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no like if you were
• 1:00:53
  invested. If you were invested in Amy
• 1:00:55
  Pond, watching her very slowly being dragged down into a hole
• 1:00:58
  to her death, it's pretty horrible.
• 1:01:01
  And I think Matt Smith is on form as well.
• 1:01:03
  He's he's he's having a good time.
• 1:01:07
  You can really tell with this episode.
• 1:01:09
  So that's three nice things about the episode, but dragging
• 1:01:12
  it down, unfortunately, is all the guest.
• 1:01:14
  Characters. The Silurian makeup, you know
• 1:01:17
  the dreadful lines, That bloody kid you.
• 1:01:21
  Know like. Dialogue.
• 1:01:23
  John, anything to say at the end of episode 1?
• 1:01:26
  No, he's got nothing. It would be better if you just
• 1:01:31
  said nothing, frankly. Just me and please.
• 1:01:33
  I, I, I will say, you know, the have all the unoriginal stuff.
• 1:01:38
  The thing is that hasn't been used on an audience in what, 30
• 1:01:42
  years? Need 30 years at this point for,
• 1:01:44
  you know, salaries we've last seen in about 20-6 years.
• 1:01:48
  Well, yeah, Warriors are deep in that.
• 1:01:51
  So there's no problem to me in kind of resurrecting that stuff.
• 1:01:56
  It's only us fans will will complain about it.
• 1:01:59
  For a general audience. It's fresh, it's new, because
• 1:02:02
  it's hardly anyone still tuning in who's going to remember the
• 1:02:05
  saloon. This is all presented in a fresh
• 1:02:09
  and new way. I don't think it is.
• 1:02:12
  This could be made in the 70s and that's not odd.
• 1:02:16
  Yeah, I could be because Chip, I think Chip know again, it's the
• 1:02:22
  only stuff. You always go with your
• 1:02:25
  influences, and he's gone with Malcolm Hulk here, but I think
• 1:02:29
  what he takes is the surface of Hulk, and he doesn't take the
• 1:02:33
  point of Hulk. And I think that becomes more
• 1:02:36
  evidence in cold blood. But it's all the surfacing, it's
• 1:02:40
  the iconography. Yeah, it's a bit.
• 1:02:43
  Wait, that reminds me speak. Speaking of Malcolm Hulk as well
• 1:02:47
  that it's got a whole got a whole army of Silurians that
• 1:02:51
  with guns going after him remind you of another Malcolm Hulk
• 1:02:54
  story? War Games.
• 1:02:57
  Oh. Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  Being unoriginal yet again. Excuse me?
• 1:03:01
  You're supposed to be sticking up for this one.
• 1:03:04
  I I mean, I would sum it up as just lazily nostalgic.
• 1:03:07
  And I don't like using the word lazy when it comes to making TV.
• 1:03:11
  But I don't think he's not added that extra thing that makes it
• 1:03:16
  Series 5 nostalgia. It is just, yeah, it's just
• 1:03:22
  obsession with the party. It's so bizarre.
• 1:03:24
  I think it feels really out of place this year.
• 1:03:27
  When it? When it do you think it would
• 1:03:29
  feel like a place in something like an RTD two season?
• 1:03:33
  Probably not, though that's that's looking backwards quite a
• 1:03:37
  bit. But this wasn't.
• 1:03:38
  This was the bold new injection of innovation, I think, for New
• 1:03:43
  Who Series 5. Yeah.
• 1:03:46
  The problem is it's not. It is not doing anything new
• 1:03:51
  that is exactly. It's just the old, it's that old
• 1:03:55
  stuff. It's it's going this is what I
• 1:03:58
  loved about it, but it's like Kristen Bruce does with all his
• 1:04:01
  books. It's plunking that on the page
• 1:04:04
  and expect he was like it without earning it.
• 1:04:06
  Can I just bring up a point that you said earlier, it's it's only
• 1:04:12
  something the fans will complain about because obviously the
• 1:04:15
  general audience from about 26 years ago and whatnot will not
• 1:04:18
  remember any of this. Which I do agree with, but like
• 1:04:22
  I just said, I don't think it's presented in a way that makes it
• 1:04:26
  feel like modern television. Oh yes, but you're a fan and
• 1:04:29
  you're complaining. Well that's fair enough, but I
• 1:04:32
  think OK, well then I will put it in front of a non fan then
• 1:04:36
  and see what they have to say. But I think what they'll say is
• 1:04:38
  well God, when was this made? 50 years ago, like there there's
• 1:04:43
  nothing here like think of time of angels that opens with river,
• 1:04:47
  you know, get breaking out of prison on that spaceship cutting
• 1:04:50
  back and forth and there's just wildly dynamic.
• 1:04:53
  To be fit. Yeah, as much, as much so as
• 1:04:56
  much so like that one. Some some of the effects in that
• 1:04:59
  are probably more dated to me than these ones.
• 1:05:01
  Amy's choice, which is jumping between the TARDIS and the dream
• 1:05:05
  state and. And there's also the
• 1:05:06
  imagination. And there's also and it's also
• 1:05:08
  my least favorite episode of Series 5.
• 1:05:10
  Well, that's because you're a madman.
• 1:05:13
  Well, to be fair, that is the whole theme of the Legends
• 1:05:15
  Doctor. But yeah, I just, I don't know.
• 1:05:20
  This has clearly been written by a Doctor Who fan who loves a
• 1:05:22
  particular type of Doctor Who, and he's mired in the past now.
• 1:05:26
  To be fair. Can I get there?
• 1:05:28
  He gets there, though. I think by the time he writes
• 1:05:31
  Flux, he's he's reconceptualizing Doctor Who for
• 1:05:34
  a modern audience. But this is humble some.
• 1:05:37
  Talents. So right on.
• 1:05:40
  That I think to, to be fair as a, as a point that I heard made
• 1:05:44
  out to is like when, when you're a, when you're a certain fan of
• 1:05:51
  like a particular monster, you don't tend to write them as
• 1:05:53
  well. But when you're like less biased
• 1:05:58
  towards them, then you tend to write them better.
• 1:06:01
  It's like because I've heard Chibnall wasn't as big a fan as
• 1:06:04
  Daleks yet the some of his best scripts apparently, and he was a
• 1:06:09
  much bigger fan of the Side Men. And most people don't
• 1:06:13
  particularly like his two-part finale.
• 1:06:17
  Not just for the reasons of the Side Men, but more particularly
• 1:06:19
  because of a certain pivotal plot point that we shall not
• 1:06:25
  name because people have heard it enough.
• 1:06:27
  But yeah, that was innovation in a way this was not.
• 1:06:31
  That was adding to the mythos. This is nicking from it.
• 1:06:36
  But to be fair, I think that I think more people would like
• 1:06:39
  this story than they would anything from his actual era.
• 1:06:43
  Was because he's got Matt Smith in it and not Jodie Whittaker,
• 1:06:45
  Yeah. And frankly, I think if if it's
• 1:06:49
  if it's under muffler, it's Helen will just give it the
• 1:06:51
  excuse. Well, I'll tell you what we'll
• 1:06:54
  do then. We'll put your theory to the
• 1:06:56
  test or that theory to the test of, you know, he's clearly a fan
• 1:07:01
  of the Silurians. He's clearly a fan of the era.
• 1:07:03
  So let's see how well he handles the Silurians in episode 2,
• 1:07:08
  shall we? Well, after you leave this
• 1:07:12
  episode on as bad a cliffhanger is so hungry and.
• 1:07:17
  I will cut it right there.