Latest / The Parenting Podcast / "Will I Ever Sleep Again?" (Pt. 2) | Ep. 22

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"Will I Ever Sleep Again?" (Pt. 2) | Ep. 22 · The Parenting Podcast

• 1:02
  Cheryl: We've got the four of us back.
• 1:03
  Cheryl: Well, not again.
• 1:04
  Cheryl: I keep wanting to say in here, four of us here on zoom together, Nolan and Christie and Denae.
• 1:10
  Cheryl: Hi.
• 1:11
  Christie: Hello.
• 1:13
  Cheryl: We are trying the new technology of doing a zoom remote recording.
• 1:19
  Cheryl: And so bear with us as we're working our way through that.
• 1:22
  Cheryl: How are all of you all today?
• 1:24
  Cheryl: Den?
• 1:25
  Danae: Yeah, I've got my copy in front of me.
• 1:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:28
  Cheryl: So there are some really good benefits to remote thing that as well as some of the issues we have, and you don't have to see
• 1:37
  Ellen: me from below the waist
• 1:41
  Cheryl: Um, so let's see.
• 1:42
  Cheryl: Last time we were talking.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: In reference to one single question that a mom wrote us and she just said one line.
• 1:50
  Cheryl: It said," Will, I ever sleep again." I think, why don't we jump back in and just kind of go up to the ages are middle-aged kids and then teens, different issues from what we had with our babies.
• 2:03
  Cheryl: Well,
• 2:03
  Christie: before we go to the older kids, I was thinking since last time when we recorded, um, of a funny story, I didn't tell, but you know, you're so sleep deprived that you wake up just in a fog, anytime something wakes you up.
• 2:16
  Christie: When you've got those little ones.
• 2:17
  Christie: I remember one time I heard the baby crying and in our girl's room, we had a baby in a crib and a toddler and a toddler bed.
• 2:24
  Christie: So I go into their room to console the baby that is crying.
• 2:28
  Christie: But in my sleep fog, I went to the toddler instead of the baby and ended up waking up the toddler.
• 2:35
  Christie: So now I've got kids cause I've gotten toddler.
• 2:38
  Christie: My mom, why are you waking me up?
• 2:41
  Christie: No, the things you do when you're, when you're sleep deprived,
• 2:47
  Cheryl: And bill was so gracious.
• 2:48
  Cheryl: Cause he said, honey, anytime, wake me up.
• 2:50
  Cheryl: And I will take care of it.
• 2:52
  Cheryl: But he was such a deep, deep sleeper that by the time that I could wake him up, I was already full awake.
• 3:01
  Cheryl: Why wait both of us up, this didn't work because I heard the first, you know, that radar.
• 3:08
  Cheryl: Let's see.
• 3:09
  Cheryl: Let's talk middle years, like six to 12.
• 3:13
  Cheryl: Uh, Personally, I've found it a little, a whole lot easier to get sleep with that age period.
• 3:20
  Cheryl: What were your experiences
• 3:21
  Christie: That's when it really got harder, our kids were really putting sleepers, um, you know, with the exception of that one colicky baby.
• 3:28
  Christie: But, um, yeah, once we started hitting those school, age years, we were like, this should be getting the should stay easy.
• 3:35
  Christie: Well, it started getting more challenging because we had one that slept walked and that was kind of
• 3:41
  Danae: horrifying.
• 3:43
  Christie: You're just sitting there and you see this kid that's supposed to be in their bed and they're just roaming around.
• 3:48
  Christie: And sometimes she would, by all appearances, you thought she was awake?
• 3:53
  Christie: She would have more conversations.
• 3:56
  Christie: With us and we interact and I say, you need to go back to bed and she'd say, okay.
• 4:01
  Christie: And she'd go back to bed.
• 4:02
  Christie: And she like walked to her room and turn around and come back.
• 4:05
  Christie: And I'm like, this isn't characteristic what's going on.
• 4:08
  Christie: So sometimes it was really hard to know that she was asleep or awake.
• 4:12
  Christie: Um, and then we had bed wedding for two different reasons, one bedwetting for sleep apnea.
• 4:18
  Christie: We ended up having tonsils removed and of her surgery.
• 4:23
  Christie: She'd never wet the bed again.
• 4:25
  Christie: It was a crazy thing.
• 4:27
  Christie: And then the other one was much, much older and we went to urologist and, and everything was fine physically, but they said it's a maturity issue, which Cheryl, I think you've read some science on that.
• 4:40
  Christie: That it's actually hormonal.
• 4:42
  Cheryl: Um, yeah, There's a hormone that develops that slows your urine production down at night, But that's what we found.
• 4:51
  Cheryl: We had one that wasn't even a particularly deep sleeper, but had issues.
• 4:57
  Cheryl: And when we went to the doctor and talked about it, And she just said, it's a matter of developing that hormone.
• 5:03
  Cheryl: Um, and by 12 fast majority have developed.
• 5:08
  Cheryl: you all know, I just blew so many things.
• 5:11
  Cheryl: but I'm so thankful because God just gave me the sensitivity to handle this well with my son.
• 5:17
  Cheryl: And um, so I really did try to do it like this is no problem.
• 5:24
  Cheryl: Don't worry about it.
• 5:26
  Cheryl: No big deal.
• 5:26
  Cheryl: And we just kept it private between us and made arrangements.
• 5:30
  Cheryl: So he would have something that it needed to night and he never told me he outgrew it, but.
• 5:38
  Cheryl: 12 ish, because you didn't need to have the extra padding and so forth that he'd used him again.
• 5:46
  Cheryl: You know, we have pull-ups now, but we didn't have pull-ups back then,
• 5:49
  Christie: Well, I was just thinking if you have an ongoing issue like that, like we knew 11 o'clock every night, this child was going to sleep walk.
• 5:56
  Christie: So I had to like get in that mental space.
• 5:58
  Christie: I think you're making a good point of like knowing the right way to respond is not always our natural way but when you're sleep deprived and you just want to go to bed, it's very easy to react emotionally.
• 6:11
  Christie: So having to like, decide how you're going to respond to that child.
• 6:16
  Danae: Yeah.
• 6:16
  Danae: I had a sleep Walker also and.
• 6:20
  Danae: She and her sister, they were sharing a room and they were upstairs and we chose to convert the front, like dining room area that didn't even have doors into a bedroom because you know, that really brought up a lot of fear that, that she would stumble, you know, down the stairs.
• 6:40
  Danae: So, you know, we really took some steps practically just to make it safe where we wouldn't worry.
• 6:47
  Danae: And we put big curtains on the dining room
• 6:49
  Cheryl: you did handle it so well, because I remember when you did that and I didn't know why, I just thought it was a room rearrangement or you just didn't even share about it.
• 7:02
  Cheryl: Well, also, yeah,
• 7:06
  Danae: outgrew the sleepwalking, the same daughter actually did had sleep talking or close to a night terror.
• 7:14
  Danae: Um, you know, during that time also, and, and wouldn't remember, you know, that she had done that, but, you know, that was something that would cause some fear in, in me and, you know, just going in and reassuring and, and helping her get back to bed and, and talking to the doctor about it.
• 7:30
  Danae: I think both of you, Cheryl and Christie, you know, you talked about going to the doctor and finding out, is there something hormonally wrong or with the sleep apnea and kind of doing that first, but then there are a lot of bed wetters that it's just, it's just, they have, they need to grow out of it.
• 7:47
  Danae: And it's an to normalize it and not make it a big issue.
• 7:51
  Christie: The possible problems that can be addressed.
• 7:53
  Christie: And then after that, it's a matter of patience, loving compassion for the child going through it.
• 7:59
  Cheryl: Oh, I know another thing we just have to realize our children aren't just physical beings.
• 8:06
  Cheryl: They also are result of their emotions.
• 8:08
  Cheryl: And sometimes it is something more like my children from mid-teens and our baby was turning four when we lost bill to cancer.
• 8:17
  Cheryl: And so our four-year-old was not in bed with, but sleeping in the area with, uh, his sister.
• 8:25
  Cheryl: And then when we moved into this house, he was just about six.
• 8:29
  Cheryl: And, uh, it was the first time he had slept all by himself in a separate bedroom alone.
• 8:35
  Cheryl: And sometimes he had trouble going to bed, but almost a hundred percent he would come in and a little bit and say, mom, do you mind if I just kinda lie down in your bed a little bit to go to Slayton.
• 8:48
  Cheryl: And so he just did it almost every night and I knew what I want us there had been some real trauma and, um, just that insecurity down in this little heart.
• 9:00
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:00
  Cheryl: And so again, try to act like it was no big deal.
• 9:04
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 9:05
  Cheryl: Come on.
• 9:06
  Cheryl: And then he did outgrow it and even one time he said when he was just a little bit older, I don't know why I used to get out of bed
• 9:16
  Ellen: because it's a really good understanding because so many times it can be.
• 9:23
  Ellen: It can be a marker that your child's struggling with something, you know, he was, he was grieving.
• 9:28
  Ellen: He didn't understand what grieving was.
• 9:29
  Ellen: So it came in the form of needing security and, and we have to take the time to not just think they're just getting out of bed.
• 9:36
  Ellen: And I know that, you know, when my husband was active duty, he was gone a lot and the kids would always really miss their dad.
• 9:43
  Ellen: And so they'd either want to come in and sleep with me or get up a couple of times.
• 9:48
  Ellen: And I, you know, I finally found, oh, they're secure.
• 9:51
  Ellen: If I give them one of their dads t-shirts cause it smells like their dad and they would take her to bed with them.
• 9:58
  Ellen: And they were really happy.
• 9:59
  Ellen: Cause it just, you know, whatever that means, you know, it's still like their daddy and that just made him feel really secure.
• 10:06
  Cheryl: So interesting.
• 10:08
  Cheryl: We had different issues, different problems, particularly in this age range we're talking about, Well, let me read you.
• 10:16
  Cheryl: And she sent a very specific issue.
• 10:18
  Cheryl: That's kind of related to this.
• 10:20
  Cheryl: I'd like to do because again, different people, different circumstances, and we're just not cookie cutter people.
• 10:25
  Cheryl: And nor do we want to put everybody in some little box, listen to what this dear mom wrote.
• 10:32
  Cheryl: When I divorced and moved into an apartment, my three kids all slept with me now that we have more room and everybody has their own beds.
• 10:40
  Cheryl: The six-year-old still wants to sleep with me.
• 10:43
  Cheryl: I feel so guilty and I'm afraid he'll have bitterness toward me.
• 10:46
  Cheryl: If I make him sleep in his own bed, help well, I
• 10:50
  Ellen: think it's kinda like what I was talking about when Mike was gone, obviously that's a different issue, but it's still the same thing.
• 10:56
  Ellen: The child has an emotional need that he doesn't really understand or know how to express.
• 11:02
  Ellen: And I guess I personally don't feel that it's a big deal if he's in the room with his mom for awhile and start to transition him into his own room, but he's already had enough changes and that's one security that he has, that my mom's here and I can be close to her.
• 11:21
  Christie: I think when the dot time does come to start transitioning him and building that separation.
• 11:27
  Christie: Talking to him about why I want to do this for you, not to you, but I want to help you grow into being an older boy.
• 11:37
  Christie: And then a man, you know, growing that distance between us is good and healthy and I'm doing it for you out of love.
• 11:44
  Danae: Yeah.
• 11:44
  Danae: I think that's an issue that, you know, I felt, and I hear from a lot of moms is I feel selfish when I set boundaries for my children.
• 11:53
  Danae: So it's important to, to know the why of why we're helping them and in the areas of sleep.
• 12:00
  Cheryl: You know, you talked about consistency Denay with this middle age range.
• 12:05
  Cheryl: but mama, I'm not sleeping One of the things we would tell our children, well.
• 12:11
  Cheryl: That's okay.
• 12:11
  Cheryl: you don't have to go to sleep.
• 12:13
  Cheryl: You just have to stay in your bed and be quiet.
• 12:16
  Cheryl: And then look at me and say, mom, if I do that, I'll fall asleep.
• 12:20
  Cheryl: We were trying to be consistent on our end.
• 12:23
  Cheryl: Not saying we demand you go to sleep.
• 12:27
  Ellen: Well, when, you know, when my kids were elementary, junior high age and, uh, you know, I really, even through high school, um, we, we homeschooled because we were military and we moved a lot.
• 12:38
  Ellen: So we had a thing called horizontal time.
• 12:40
  Ellen: It wasn't called nap time as horizontal time.
• 12:43
  Ellen: And you just went in your room for an hour, including mom, and you could read, you could do a puzzle.
• 12:48
  Ellen: If you were little, you could play with your trucks, but you have to stare on your bed, had to be quiet.
• 12:53
  Ellen: And the kids that needed naps.
• 12:54
  Ellen: And we sort of did that as they got older, you know, you have to go to bed at 10, whether you sleep or not, it's up to you, but you have to be start doing restful things to help you to get that way.
• 13:05
  Christie: Yeah, I think in this age too, that bedtime can be a really, um, stabilizing thing for kids to help them feel really secure because the days can be so full and so busy and you don't necessarily get to hear from every child.
• 13:18
  Christie: And, you know, you might miss miss some things.
• 13:21
  Christie: It's something I wish I would have been better at.
• 13:23
  Christie: I was just so tired.
• 13:24
  Christie: I was ready for everyone to be asleep, be able to try to go in.
• 13:29
  Christie: And I think one of you guys were really good at this going in and laying down with them for a minute and just hearing their hearts.
• 13:35
  Christie: And I think that helps a lot of behavioral things in the daytime, too, that consistent routine every day.
• 13:42
  Danae: I think it's we're us as moms, you know, the question kind of keeps
• 13:46
  Christie: getting brought
• 13:47
  Danae: up of will I ever sleep again?
• 13:49
  Danae: You know, is knowing that we, we have our limits.
• 13:52
  Danae: We can't be on all the time.
• 13:55
  Danae: So another motivator is, you know, my, my kids say, mom becomes a pumpkin.
• 14:01
  Danae: I I've always been like that.
• 14:02
  Danae: I still am where I'm doing fine.
• 14:04
  Danae: I'm doing great.
• 14:05
  Danae: And all of a sudden it is like a switch has been thrown and I'm just kinda start shutting down
• 14:12
  Christie: like a robot.
• 14:13
  Christie: Like,
• 14:14
  Danae: and so if I know for me, that's going to be even nine o'clock or whatever time, you know, I know.
• 14:20
  Danae: I'm going to be struggling with being present for my children.
• 14:23
  Danae: And that helps motivate me also.
• 14:25
  Danae: Let's, let's start a little earlier and getting the talking and the bedtime routines done to where it's good for all of us.
• 14:34
  Cheryl: you know, being sensitive to our children and their needs brings us up to the teen years because I do have moms all the time say what happened.
• 14:48
  Cheryl: This was a good sleeper.
• 14:49
  Cheryl: There was no problem.
• 14:51
  Cheryl: And suddenly like a light switch was turned off.
• 14:55
  Cheryl: They aren't sleeping.
• 14:56
  Cheryl: What in the world is different, you know, they're just 12 years old.
• 15:01
  Cheryl: Well, I saw the same thing.
• 15:03
  Cheryl: Each of my children, 11, 12, along in there suddenly became a different kind of.
• 15:10
  Cheryl: And where they would just fall asleep at night.
• 15:12
  Cheryl: They didn't.
• 15:13
  Cheryl: And so I did some research and it's interesting with all the other changes that come with teen years with the onset of puberty is the change, what they call circadian rhythm, which is our 24 hour clock.
• 15:25
  Cheryl: Well, hormones reset, teenagers clock.
• 15:29
  Cheryl: And generally it sets it forward about two hours, sort of like, um, spring forward, the team spring about two hours forward.
• 15:38
  Cheryl: So it just changes their whole clock.
• 15:40
  Cheryl: And so actually rather than going to bed at nine or something, if they were to go to bed at 11 and then could sleep in, that would really fit what's going on, physically in their body.
• 15:52
  Cheryl: There are issues that our team might stay up doing things, you know, on their phones or studying But the real truth is their bodies have changed.
• 16:00
  Cheryl: just
• 16:01
  Christie: because society does not accommodate very well for that.
• 16:04
  Cheryl: It's interesting because there are school districts that have listened to the science and have changed the start time for high school, because most places, high schoolers start earlier than the lower grades.
• 16:17
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:18
  Cheryl: And so instead of doing that, they said if the high schools would start a half an hour later, just to half an hour, that across the board, all the standardized tests in the whole high school are raised.
• 16:30
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 16:31
  Ellen: I mean, I think we all remember high school, usually your first period class, everybody's a zombie.
• 16:36
  Ellen: I always tried to take a class that I could be a zombie in and nobody noticed,
• 16:42
  Danae: you know.
• 16:43
  Danae: Yeah.
• 16:43
  Danae: I remember, I mean, I remember in high school getting so worn out that I knew I had 10 sick days at my school and I would take every single one of them because I just wouldn't need to sleep all day.
• 16:57
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:57
  Christie: Especially.
• 16:58
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:59
  Christie: I remember counting and calculating how many tardies I could have for just hour, especially cause you're just dragging yourself.
• 17:06
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 17:07
  Danae: Yeah.
• 17:08
  Danae: I was thinking back when my kids were teens, you know, those, those late hours or when they wanted to talk also, that was where the best conversations, you know, where, when they were younger, you know, maybe they would be in their beds and we'd sit and talk a little bit by the bedside.
• 17:24
  Danae: Well, you know, when they got older and I wasn't as strict with bedtime, so it was 10 o'clock and they would kind of start standing around me, maybe moving their feet a little bit.
• 17:34
  Danae: And you know, they caught my attention it's because they want to talk about something.
• 17:39
  Danae: So I remember many nights sitting in the living room, you know, they got three teenagers at once, you know, all talking about things and I didn't want to make them go to bed, but now I realize because they, they weren't sleepy.
• 17:51
  Danae: It was like, A lot of energy, you know, and I was needing to wind down that to the mom's not getting sleep.
• 17:57
  Danae: I remember those days, all of a sudden it seemed kind of back to newborn because I, you know, I was wanting to spit stay up and spend that time talking, but then I needed my sleep.
• 18:08
  Christie: Well, especially if you have one that doesn't talk much, then when they start talking, you don't dare shut them down so that you to go to bed.
• 18:14
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 18:15
  Ellen: It's such a tender time in their life.
• 18:17
  Ellen: Even if they're talking about something weird, because eventually they might get to the issue.
• 18:22
  Ellen: But I also learned like with my husband, we would tag team, you know, it would be like, okay, it's your turn this time, just stay up a little later.
• 18:30
  Ellen: Cause it is, it's really hard.
• 18:32
  Ellen: And it's good for them to talk to their dad too.
• 18:34
  Christie: This is really fresh for me last night, even I was just propping my eyelids up waiting because I knew my team had a Congress with the friends she was having.
• 18:43
  Christie: And we'd been talking about it all week and coaching her through how to do it graciously.
• 18:47
  Christie: And then I knew she wouldn't be home until 10 30 and I'm watching the clock like, oh girl, come on.
• 18:51
  Christie: I want to hear out when, cause I want to go to bed.
• 18:53
  Danae: Yeah.
• 18:54
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:55
  Cheryl: You're right, Ellen.
• 18:57
  Cheryl: It's a little bit like our newborns.
• 18:59
  Cheryl: You have real needs for your children, but we also are, are struggling with being tired.
• 19:06
  Cheryl: And especially if you have an early start in your morning that you have to fulfill,
• 19:13
  Ellen: I remember my, um, my kids would say to me, when they were teenagers, they go, mom, you need a new.
• 19:25
  Danae: they went in and was never mean or rude.
• 19:27
  Danae: It was
• 19:28
  Ellen: mom.
• 19:28
  Ellen: I think you need an app.
• 19:29
  Ellen: And they were right.
• 19:30
  Ellen: And I would go back in my bedroom.
• 19:32
  Ellen: And before, I didn't know what these were called for many years, they're called power naps because I've done them all my life.
• 19:38
  Ellen: Even in high school, I did power naps and I go back into my room, close my eyes for 20 minutes.
• 19:43
  Ellen: And then I feel like I've slept for two hours and I come back out and I'm fine.
• 19:46
  Ellen: But I always used to think that was funny.
• 19:47
  Ellen: Mom, you need a
• 19:48
  Cheryl: nap
• 19:49
  Danae: about the, the science and Cheryl.
• 19:51
  Danae: Maybe you can speak to this about sleeping in on the weekends because you know, if the, if the teenager that's going and going and going.
• 19:59
  Danae: You know, all week long and, and not getting the sleep they need.
• 20:03
  Danae: And then I remember being this way as a team.
• 20:06
  Danae: And then I remember my teenagers, you know, Saturday mornings wanting to sleep until goodness noon, you know, and it, it seems like common sense, you know, oh, they need the catch up on the sleep.
• 20:19
  Danae: But I think this is the science a little different on that.
• 20:23
  Cheryl: It's interesting because anything you read about sleep says you can't catch up on it.
• 20:29
  Cheryl: So what you want is a regular pattern and catching up, you might feel better, but I'm with you.
• 20:37
  Cheryl: It's really hard.
• 20:38
  Cheryl: You see your teams.
• 20:39
  Cheryl: So it was Austin.
• 20:41
  Cheryl: It's really hard when they have a chance to sleep in, like you said, you took your days off to sleep.
• 20:48
  Cheryl: As long as they possibly can.
• 20:50
  Cheryl: I have one, that's always had sleep issues and even now she would do so much better.
• 20:56
  Cheryl: If she could step to one o'clock and sleep until 10 what's realistic.
• 21:01
  Cheryl: I mean, she's a grown woman now and I've just done accommodate that, and some of
• 21:05
  Ellen: us are more, I'm a, I'm a night person.
• 21:08
  Ellen: So I get some of my best work done as an artist after 11 o'clock at night.
• 21:14
  Ellen: And I enjoy that the house is quiet.
• 21:17
  Ellen: I can think better.
• 21:18
  Ellen: And you know, I don't always get, I don't always sleep in because I can't necessarily sleep that long, but, you know, and I realized that in my kids, some of them are just 19.
• 21:28
  Ellen: And they, they think better, they do their homework late at night, whatever it is.
• 21:33
  Ellen: And, uh, you just have to learn.
• 21:36
  Ellen: I mean, I did that all through high school and you just got up early in the morning and took a dumb class, first period.
• 21:41
  Ellen: So
• 21:44
  Cheryl: I didn't have all the problems, but the reality I can tell you with moms listening right now, devices,
• 21:50
  Christie: One thing I've done, um, with devices is up until they're 17 or so.
• 21:56
  Christie: Required them to bring their, their devices and charge in our bedroom at nine 30.
• 22:00
  Christie: And they turn in everything, um, and, and plug it in, in our room.
• 22:04
  Christie: And, and that kind of helps them wind down and, and start thinking that direction, even if it's just calming their room down and their minds down.
• 22:13
  Christie: And then, you know, after that, we want, I want them to start self-regulating and learning how to take care of those things themselves.
• 22:20
  Christie: Like modeling, good sleep, hype hygiene, and preparation, and yourself as a good idea.
• 22:25
  Christie: Um, but it's so tricky because the whole world seems to revolve around their devices.
• 22:30
  Christie: So we do get back on that, you know, yeah.
• 22:33
  Christie: That's what I was thinking about
• 22:34
  Danae: Christy about that, that, that is something that came up with my kids.
• 22:38
  Danae: Or if, I think if I had younger kids today, you know, how would I address this issue of devices and that, you know, my kids, you know, listened to audio books and different things on cassette tapes and then CDs is, you know, maybe finding another way, you know, What you're choosing is either old school books with a little light, right?
• 22:59
  Danae: Or, um, I think Alan, you were talking something about how the Kendall you want to tell us about
• 23:04
  Ellen: it's only the Kindle Paperwhite, which is just a reader, the way it's not backlit.
• 23:09
  Ellen: So the way it's slit it, doesn't stimulate your brain.
• 23:12
  Ellen: All the iPads, phones, computers, the way they're lit.
• 23:16
  Ellen: If you're like really sleepy in the morning, turn your computer on and start doing stuff.
• 23:20
  Ellen: And you'll start waking up really quickly.
• 23:22
  Ellen: But those are the same things that keep us awake at night.
• 23:25
  Ellen: So the best thing is if you just have the, a book with the little light that you can your book, but if you, if your kids really like to read, it might be worth getting the Kindle Paperwhite.
• 23:37
  Ellen: But because what stimulates your brain is light.
• 23:40
  Christie: We're not making money off of Kindle though.
• 23:42
  Christie: I know
• 23:47
  Cheryl: it's the
• 23:47
  Ellen: most boring Kindle because it's just a reader.
• 23:50
  Ellen: There's no, it's not like an iPad.
• 23:51
  Ellen: Some of the Kindles are like, okay,
• 23:52
  Christie: that's how they really want to sponsor us.
• 23:54
  Christie: You call it their item boring.
• 23:56
  Ellen: Unless you
• 23:57
  Cheryl: like to read what I'm hearing from all the knowns and from my friends are counselors the problem is the teens aren't staying up to read, right?
• 24:07
  Cheryl: They're either straight video gaming or text, or a quick talk, everything back and forth.
• 24:15
  Cheryl: The last thing they're thinking about is, you know, protecting their eyes when you're doing the right kind of reading.
• 24:21
  Cheryl: Most of the problem is actively on the devices.
• 24:25
  Cheryl: So the issues are much bigger, right?
• 24:30
  Ellen: Well, I like the way Christie kind of handles it where she just has everybody turned in their devices and that's just a discipline, but that's a discipline that can carry you into adulthood because we all need to turn off the devices because they do stimulate us.
• 24:43
  Ellen: Whether you're watching TV or you're on the, on your, uh, iPads or on the computer.
• 24:49
  Ellen: Those are the things that keep you awake,
• 24:51
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 24:51
  Cheryl: But circling
• 24:52
  Christie: back to how we were thinking about sleep is that, you know, if we're really
• 24:56
  Danae: trying to help them set up for their adult lives, like you said, Ellen, you know, I think we have to get within ourselves as the parent, you know, this is why we're doing this and that will help us stay strong as they push back because they will.
• 25:11
  Danae: So if we're doing it for sleep, you know, and have resolved with that, talk with them about it, model it well to them.
• 25:20
  Danae: Um, and then release them, you know, release them age appropriately to now make their own decisions.
• 25:25
  Danae: And one day they'll remember back to,
• 25:30
  Ellen: because we want to make sure that they understand by turning in your devices at 9 30, 10 o'clock or whatever time you choose.
• 25:37
  Ellen: It's not a punishment.
• 25:39
  Ellen: Right.
• 25:39
  Ellen: It's just a discipline to help you sleep because I know I turned my iPad.
• 25:44
  Ellen: I put it in another room, so it doesn't click on all our devices are on minimal or charging.
• 25:51
  Ellen: I mean, you have to have a phone available, but you know, if I, my iPad keeps dinging, I'm never going to get to sleep
• 25:58
  Christie: well.
• 25:58
  Christie: And one of mine, when, when she did kind of get that boundary dropped and she was free reign, she started staying up late on Tik talk, you know, relate watching all the tech talks.
• 26:12
  Christie: And then she got a job that she had to be there at six 30 in the morning.
• 26:15
  Christie: And so, like you were saying today, those natural consequences start coming in and they're like, oh, I am exhausted.
• 26:21
  Christie: I've got to do something about this.
• 26:23
  Cheryl: very good.
• 26:24
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 26:25
  Cheryl: we've run out of time again.
• 26:27
  Cheryl: Uh, So much to think about and talk about and come back.
• 26:35
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:37
  Cheryl: Sorry to resist.
• 26:41
  Cheryl: So thank you all again.
• 26:42
  Cheryl: So much stay to be with you.
• 26:45
  Cheryl: Listeners, we need to hear from you please.
• 26:48
  Cheryl: contact us however you want to get ahold of us.
• 26:51
  Cheryl: DM, text us If you're thinking of a question, just text to us right now.
• 26:56
  Cheryl: So moms hang in there.
• 26:58
  Cheryl: keep loving Keep persevering, because it's worth it.