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Wind Turbines in the Sea should be Destroyed | Jerm Warfare Weekly Banter · UK Column Radio

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: My name is Jerm. This is Jerm Warfare, the battle
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: of ideas. Yeah, I was just saying to you, I
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: wrote to my notes here to talk about wind turbines,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: and then I scratched it out because I thought we did.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: So you've just said that we haven't. And it was
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: something that I saw flying between Amsterdam and London in
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: the ocean. And as I said previously, I've never seen
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: that in my life. Wind turbines in the ocean, that
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: must be an ecological disaster. Well, they're everywhere right down
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: the east coast of England. And I've mentioned this on
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: the news program a number of times, but the thing
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: that has me in stitches about it is that, you know,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: obviously the big enemy is Russia and all the airborne
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: early warning systems face east, therefore. And unfortunately, the.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: The wind turbines scatter the radar signals, so our airborne
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: early warning systems don't work anymore. And so they've had
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: to put a competition out to see how they might
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: be able to mitigate the problem. So they've been hoist
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: by their own petard, as the saying goes.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think, Mike, how they even got to
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: the point of concluding that, all right, guys, we're going
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: to put wind turbines in the middle of the ocean.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Well, because the argument goes that it never stops blowing there.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: And of course, it's complete nonsense because there's a.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: There's a guy who runs two YouTube channels, one called
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Harry's Farm and one called Harry's Garage, called Harry Metcalf.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: And he's a longtime motoring journalist. And I can't remember
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: what he was talking about, but he had some car.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: He was driving along the A68, which is, is it
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the A68, Charles?
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: 66. 66.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: And he started on the East Coast and there were
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: all the big wind farm right off the coast there
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: and not a single one of them was turning.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's so funny. We've got wind turbines everywhere here,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: and most of the time when I drive past them,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: they're standing dead still.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: Well, I was wondering how we approach this discussion, because
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: obviously we've talked about it. We've put it out there,
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: which is why you crossed it off your list, because
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: I can absolutely imagine why you'd think we talked about it,
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: because it does come up as something we were supposed
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: to have talked about.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: For anyone who's listened to the news today, I will
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: have talked about this to a certain extent in the
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: news program today. And therefore, I sort of want to
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: avoid the too much technical detail in this. First of all,
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: because I think it's always a little bit difficult to
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: deal with and to recall it. But some of it
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: absolutely has to be said. And the standing still bit
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: is such a significant part. And it's such a significant
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: part that is not really understood. Because there are obviously
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: two things. First of all, the wind, as we all know,
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: doesn't blow all the time. And the second thing is
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: that sometimes, in effect, it blows too much, which is
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: not the wind's fault.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: It's the fault of.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: the people who, in their infinite wisdom and, more importantly, greed,
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: decided that even if they didn't have a transmission system
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: that would be able to cope with all the energy
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: that was generated by winds blowing at high speeds, and
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: therefore they wouldn't be able to send it down lines
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: because it would burn them out, in effect, they.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Thought they'd just go ahead with it anyway.
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: So the issue, Germ, which I think is not understood
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: really anywhere, is that two things happen. If there's too
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: much wind, by which I mean that the power that's
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: being delivered to the turbines and then converted into energy
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: or electricity can't be handled by the system, then they
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: have to shut those turbines down, which is the first thing.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: They have to shut them off.
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: And then the second thing is they have to pay
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: whoever owns those turbines, in effect, to compensate them for
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: the fact that the system isn't able to take the
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: energy that they're producing. And then the next thing is
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: they have to turn on the gas generators in order
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: to produce the electricity that is not being produced by
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: the wind turbines. It is the most remarkable set of
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: circumstances And this would be amazing if it was done,
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: you know, if one person had in their home, in
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: their spare time, set up a system where they thought, oh,
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: I know, I've got a really good idea for, you know,
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: for powering my garden shed. Only to find that actually
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: the wires that they'd bought down the DIY shop hadn't
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: quite been up to the job. So therefore, they had
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: to think again. And then when it got cold in winter,
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: they'd have to turn their gas heater on instead of
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: using the electric one.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: That would be fine.
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: But this is happening across at least a whole country here.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: And I dare say similar problems happening in many other
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: parts of the world. And I think that's the thing
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: that's not understood. So when people look at turbines that
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: aren't turning, obviously, sometimes there will be a head scratch
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: because you think, well, the the wind is really blowing
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: quite hard, so how can that be? But otherwise, I
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: think people just think, well, there's not enough wind, and
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: that might be the case sometimes, but actually often isn't.
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: I just wanted to get that bit out there, because
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: it just demonstrates the complete insanity.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: I would say also, given what Mike's just said about the.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: the interference with other things, is it's kind of one
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: in the eye for the idea that there is a
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: completely sort of joined up agenda. And I'm not saying, therefore,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: that there is no agenda. That's not what I mean.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: But what I mean is even when you're able to
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: demonstrate beyond certainly beyond reasonable doubt, that there is an
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: agenda at play. It is very interesting to see times
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: like this where it sort of trips itself up. So
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: exactly like you say, you want to be able to say, oh,
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: look at those terrible Russians, but we can't see them
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: or hear them now because we've put these wind turbines up.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Go on, Mike.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Well, look, I just want to just a quick aside
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: here for a second. We'll come on back on to
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: wind turbines in a second. But I just want to
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: pull Charles up on this claim that he said something
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: on today's UK column news. Now, of course, this programme,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: what he meant to say was that the UK column
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: news two weeks ago because we are taking a two-week
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: pause on German warfare.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: So what we're recording now will only be out in
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: two weeks, yes. This is very confusing.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: So anyway, I just wanted to clarify that.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: That's very good.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: This would have even Marty McFly scratching his head, I think.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: And by the way, the reason why we're taking a
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: break is because I'm hurt, Mike. You hurt my feelings
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: in the last recording.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: So I understand. I understand that you suffered deeply.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: One of the comments, Charles.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: Is a fortnight long enough? Do you need more time?
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: I think two weeks might be enough time for me
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: to recover from the humiliation. According to the YouTube comment,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: I'm just being used as a humiliation ritual, Mike. Please
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: stop humiliating me, Mike.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: Well, it was a struggle session. I mean, what can
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: I say? But, I mean, going back now to the
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: … Wind turbines in the ocean.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I suspect the reason why I've not seen them is
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: because I think the ocean around South Africa is probably
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: too rough. And as a result, there's no point in
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: installing them.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Well, maybe North Sea isn't exactly flat calm most of
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: the time. So, no, I don't think that's the problem.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: I think maybe the expense hasn't got there yet. Give
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: it time.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, we are behind and we always
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: do catch up to what you guys are doing. So
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: maybe you're right.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: It's funny that, isn't it? What goes in which direction?
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: Because there is equally, you know, there are, I think,
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: very many instances in Africa. Let's face it, it has
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: been a sort of testbed for so many other things.
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: It is interesting to see what what is trialed or
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: what is used as a place for experimentation before it's
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: then brought into supposedly the civilized world.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: Vaccines. This is an instance of it. Yes, exactly. Yeah.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: And this does seem to be an instance of things
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: going the other way. But I mean, it's, I suppose,
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: given what I've just said about the absolute idiocy of
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: of even suggesting that you would try to force more
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: stuff onto a grid that you know can't take it.
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: I suppose at least, you know, that would be laughed
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: out of absolutely any meeting that you tried to stick
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: it into in not just South Africa, but I would
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: imagine most African countries. So I guess that would be
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: one reason why it hasn't been tried yet. But no,
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think specifically because obviously what we talked
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: about was offshore. The reason I do the technical bit, fine,
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: but actually on the sort of commentary and opinion, It
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: is easy just to get caught up in the detail
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: about what the problem is, because it doesn't work. It
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: makes energy bills go up. Even if you believe in
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: man-made carbon dioxide being a problem, not man-made, you know
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: what I mean?
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: But this still doesn't work for that. This means.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: That you actually are increasing the amount of carbon dioxide
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: that's being put into the atmosphere by the generation of electricity.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: So it is a sort of lose, lose, lose. But no,
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I think it's really.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: The aesthetics of it and the way in which wind
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: turbines on that scale. And I think one does have
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: to be quite particular about it because I would say
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: in places where wind turbines have been preserved, wind mills,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: that did actually work as mills. Maybe it's a rose-tinted
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: spectacles thing. Maybe it's because it's... No, there's a difference, Charles. Well,
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: there does seem to be an issue with scale and proportionality.
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: And the issue, I think, that gets a lot of
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: people is that these turbines.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: Are grotesque in their scale and they dominate. They absolutely
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: dominate any landscape in a way that windmills have never done. Windmills,
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: I think, have been sympathetic to the landscape, as has
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: architecture in general, I would say, for most of time
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: until now.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: There's also the fact that the turbines, as they are
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: currently built, are frankly, an environmental disaster.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: They can't be recycled.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: The production process is environmentally damaging and the disposal process
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: is environmentally damaging. There is literally nothing positive to say
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: about them. And I simply don't understand why the environmental
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: movement supports their installation. I mean, just the sheer quality
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: of concrete that's required to produce the base for it
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: in and of itself, never mind the.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Rest, is... It's because it's political. I was going to
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: say now that there's an intention difference. So you talk
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: about windmills, right? I don't think any sane person has
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: any issue with windmills historically because they have been used
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: kind of in a minimalist sense on farms. What There
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: was never a political agenda behind them. It was simply
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: to aid in agriculture. What's going on now is that
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: you have public-private partnerships that are buying into the UN
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Sustainable Development Agenda. This is a completely different intention and
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: they want people to go onto those grids despite the
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: fact that they're environmental hazards and extremely unreliable.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think this is it. This is exactly it.
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: You were talking about the creation of what is being
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: represented as a moral imperative. We have to do it
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: because of this, that, and the other. And I think
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: that might go back to your point of why on
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: earth hasn't the environmental movement reacted against it? And I
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: think this has been exactly because the hijacking of that
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: movement has been complete and absolute, and the intertwining of
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: genuine environmental concerns with completely fictitious climate concerns. They've woven
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: a lie into an absolutely genuine campaign and movement and
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: philosophy and presenting now uh both those things as the
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: same thing and we see it with with absolutely everything
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: they're not the same they're not the same at all
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: but sorry just finished because the thing with windmills is
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: let's face it why if you can harness the power
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: of the wind, why wouldn't you? And the same thing
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: for the sun or the sea or whatever it is.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: Absolutely fine. I have no dramas with that. But this
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: is not what that is. Exactly like I said, I mean,
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: first of all, you are not harnessing that power because
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: the energy grid is unable to deal with it. Even
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: if it were able to deal with it, you'd then
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: have the situation the other way about, which would then
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: be that you would presumably.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: Have either far too much actual electricity that you are
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: able to transmit down the grid somewhere, but it basically
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: has nowhere to go. Or again, the wind stops blowing
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: and you have not enough. So it's the, again, this
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: total sort of aberration of the idea that things may
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: be practical and they're not.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: They're not. And also, I mean, if you just drive
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: around South Africa and you look at farms, most farms
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: have got those old-fashioned, I don't even know if you
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: call them a windmill. They're like these thin things with
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: a little tail on the end and they turn. You
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I do, yeah. It
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: basically pumps the water.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: Exactly, yeah.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: And I don't think anybody that I know has ever said, well,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I hate those. They're very ugly. And the same thing
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: goes for Dutch windmills. They're beautiful. They're just architecturally beautiful.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: But now you have these big gray things in the
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: middle of the ocean that are grotesque. They're just horrible looking.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, they are.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: Well, I'd be fascinated if, and I think that also
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: the materials, the specific appearance of the materials has something
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: to do with it as well. The fact that these,
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: the turbines are stark white and sort of, I don't
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: know if this quite makes sense, but sort of synthetic white.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: It's almost not a proper type of white. I wonder
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: if somebody listening... who knows about these things, has a
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: calculation by which it's possible to determine whether or not
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: something is going to be discordant, if that's right, to
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: look at in terms of observing a landscape. Because I
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: think there have been arguments in applications for wind turbines,
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: putting them in ranges of hills, because it's particularly applicable
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: to Scotland and the north of England, where the idea
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: is that the wind blows more.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: So that's where they should be put.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: And there have been arguments around proportionality based on the
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: height of the hill that the turbine sits on, as
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: though somehow the bigger the hill, the bigger the turbine.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: As though that makes sense. Well, that's fine then.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Now, I.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: not sure I can really go along with that at all.
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: But I wonder if there is some sort of a
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: calculation that you can do that means that by and large,
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: when the human eye looks at it, it registers something
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: that is not quite right.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you know what I mean.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: It's a little bit like some of those, I think
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: in the United Kingdom now, motorways have, particularly near junctions,
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: they have these absolutely vast warehouses. And I would say
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: the same thing about some of those now, particularly the
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: ones that are, I mean, it's quite clever to an extent,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: but they are coloured in stripes of sort of varying degrees.
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: So they're supposed, from a distance, they're supposed to blend
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: into either the colour of the sky or the colour
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: of the ground. Now, it doesn't really work, but there's
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: a sort of blue graduation or green graduation. But I
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: would say the scale and the shape of them And
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: I can't really come up with a word that's better
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: than unsympathetic, but they are just terrifically unsympathetic in a
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: way that I think even the enormous factories of the
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: Victorian period weren't.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: And anyway, is there a.
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: Way in which you can be to some degree objective
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: about this?
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: You can't even make them look nice because I guess
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the counter argument as well, then, you know, if they
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: blend in with the ocean, that's dangerous because ships could drive,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: not drive.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: That's not the reason, Jeremy. The reason, they have to
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: be white. And it's the same, I'm afraid there's some
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: overlap here with gliding and sailplanes. You cannot, a modern
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: fiberglass sailplane, you cannot paint white. any kind of color
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: on it has to be white and that's because once
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: you once you add color you do get significant heat
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: from the sun and it delaminates and then your wings
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: fall apart so uh it's the same with wind turbines
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: they cannot make them any other color than than.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: White then i'm not saying anybody should do this but
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: i'm just saying you know uh guys could go out
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: there and spray paint them I'm not sure.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: You're talking industrial scale and you're going to need some
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: kind of big crane, so I'm not entirely sure that's
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: gonna work no i i prefer some kind of um
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: uh some kind of way of chopping them down uh
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: you know i'm sure there must be some kind of
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: uh Far from me to suggest any kind of explosive,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: but you know.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. We're not saying that at all, Mike. No,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: we're not condoning that. But I mean, I was thinking
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: about this also, Charles. We're talking about how they look
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: above the ocean. They all go down into the seabed, right?
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: So if you can imagine now what that looks like.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: They don't. Some of them are. The big ones do.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Some of them are floating. Oh, right.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: But again, I actually don't know enough about that. I'm
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: not entirely sure how that works. But I think a
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: combination is the answer, yeah. Obviously, it depends on the depth.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Of the water. Well, listen to this. I pulled up
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: something here while you were talking. Over 200 humpback whales
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: washed up dead or dying along the US East Coast
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: between 2016 and 2023. which was titled an unusual mortality
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: event that is still being debated today. The timing is
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: not subtle. The strandings began the same year the first
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: US offshore wind farm, Block Island, went live, and they
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: spiked again as pile driving started for Vineyard Wind and
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: South Fork Wind in 2023, which are also wind farms.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: The industry and its regulators, NOAA and BOEM, insist that
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: there's no scientific evidence of any link. Well, of course not.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to stop you right there because this
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: really bugs, it really annoys me. Right. There is no
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: scientific evidence. This is a fantastic phrase that is rolled
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: out at every opportunity. Because, of course, if you don't
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: look for scientific evidence, there ain't going to be any.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: You will not find it. So it is great.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: But they also approve the permits. But they approved the permits.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: It's the very same organizations that said there's no scientific evidence.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Of course they're going to say that. But there is also,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: it says here, there is a study that found a
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: strong correlation with the deaths. More survey ships, more pile driving,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: more carcasses. And then with regards to vineyard wind, in 2024,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: 107 meter, or one of the blades, snapped off. I mean,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: just think about that for a second, right? Think about
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: how big that is. And it broke fiberglass and foam
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: across Nantucket's beaches for weeks. The beaches closed at the
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: height of summer. Shards sharp enough to slice bare feet
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: were floating and lying on the sand. Think about that. Right?
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just insane. And also, the cost involved
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: of connecting all of that to any kind of grid,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: it just doesn't compute.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: I think I've said this before. I think the....
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: I would say the heartening thing about, say, wind turbines,
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: it doesn't really matter what it is, is that they
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: can be removed. And, okay, yeah, they will leave a
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: scar because of the incredible bulk of the concrete pad
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: that they... sit upon but i think we live in
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: an age where we're seeing this stuff being put out
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: because for now at least people can try to convince
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: themselves and each other that it is a good idea
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: and there is as i say that there is this
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: moral imperative and in fact just just on that again
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: totally anecdotal but i had a a conversation with um
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: somebody in their i think in their early 30s That
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: does seem to be the sweet spot, age-wise, for believing
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: that there really isn't a debate about this. It just
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: has to be done. The view was, well, yes, there
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: are problems with the costs associated, but because of the
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: climate problem. This is what I mean with the linking
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: of this to environment, because of the climate problem. In effect,
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: The bottom line is if we don't build wind turbines,
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: we're all going to die. And it does seem to
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: be believed absolutely beyond any form of debate or nuance
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: or anything else by a lot of people of that generation.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: So that's an aside. But I do believe that whilst
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: we are seeing an absolutely horrific assault on the environment,
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: paradoxically um that there will come a time where this
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: gets undone it has to be undone because it doesn't
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: make financial sense anymore apart from anything else and and
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: again this i have spoken about in the uk column
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: news before but it was just i was just reminding
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: myself the the very first offshore wind so-called farm or
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: wind project alpha ventus which was um which was a
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: German project, was decommissioned, although they decided to decommission it
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: last year. And it wasn't, I'm pretty sure I'm correct
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: in saying that it was not because the parts were failing.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: It was because it just wasn't making financial sense anymore.
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: And I would say that is pretty heartening because I
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: don't really see with companies costs, the cost that I
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: described at the beginning, which is the balancing cost or
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: the curtailment cost, they are going up at such an
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: extraordinary rate. I don't think that they will be able
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: to continue to do that, to sell it as an idea,
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: even if the alternative is, well, we're all going to die.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's sort of inevitable anyway.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not so optimistic about it because if you drive
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: from Plymouth to Tintagel, for example, which is on the
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: northern coast of Cornwall, you'll drive through an area of
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: wind turbines on farmland that are literally rotting. They haven't
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: been switched on and they've never turned in goodness knows.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: How long and they're rotting away there.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: And I would imagine, I don't know this, but I
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: would imagine that what's happened is that the company that
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: put them in is gone. and the farmer who owns
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: the land isn't going to pay to have them removed
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: so they rot and and uh so you know we
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: are building a massive environmental cost to future taxpayers because
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the companies that have put these in they'll just they'll
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: they'll be shut down the money will have been taken
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and and they'll just be left so so yes we
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: can of course remove them but but uh you know, at,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: at whose expense. And that, that I think is, that's.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: A very good question.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: Well, in which case they need to be, there needs
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: to be a value created in them, in them as
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: a resource like plastic, for example, that, that, you know,
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: in recovering the materials and there are supposed to be
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: companies that claim to be able to do that. But
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: the problem is what, what can they, what can they
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: use them for? If not more bits of wind turbine. Well,
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: it's also a bubble. I mean, listen to this. This
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: feeds into what you're saying. So offshore wind needs up
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: to 10 times more rare earth elements per megawatt than onshore.
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: And those magnets do not appear out of thin air.
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: They come from mines, often artisanal and small scale where
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: you have child labor, toxic exposure and dangerous conditions. So
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: the clean transition off the coast of a wealthy country
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: like the UK is built on the backs of a
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: poor country somewhere else.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: And that is not sustainability. That's outsourcing the damage and
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: calling it virtue. And campaigners have an influence.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: That's the bit that annoys me the most, Jerm, because
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: absolutely child labor. We are, you know, people that consider themselves,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: would set themselves up as being, you know, arbiters of
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: the best.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Way to do things.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: We've got to have wind turbines because that's the best
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: way to save the environment. Don't seem to care too much. A,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: about the actual environmental cost of the thing, but more importantly,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the cost to the lives of the people that are
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: having to mine this stuff. And that's just conveniently forgotten.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Which is precisely, again, why it's entirely different, Charles, to
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: windmills that we're talking about from antiquity. It's not the
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: same thing in the slightest.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: It is not. It absolutely isn't. And again, it.
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: To me, just spells the effectiveness of the brainwashing campaign.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: Because I can't really see who does look at wind
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: turbines and think that they look good or look nice
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: or look appropriate or look like they should be there.
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: And the only way, I think the only way in
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: which people can convince themselves that that is okay is
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: because they think that they are holding the right sort
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: of belief because they want to save the somehow save
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: the world save humanity it's it's an incredible set of
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: arguments that are in competition with each other.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Well something that you said earlier mike um yeah i
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: found something that connects to it um the wildlife studies
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: the cost projections the output estimates much of it is
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: funded by the very firms that profit from the flattering verdict.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: And decommissioning costs get pushed decades into the future onto
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: taxpayers even long after the developers have left, which is
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: what you were saying. So there's no real incentive to
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: break them down. They just leave them. And so you
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: end up with an even worse environmental disaster. And as
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I said, the whole narrative rests on models. Everything has
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: to do with models. And there's no pragmatism.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: It won't matter, Jerm, because by that stage, we'll all
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: be living in cities. We'll all be restricted to within
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: 15 minutes of our homes, and we'll never get to
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: see the coastline or the countryside where all this damage
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: is being done. So there's nothing to worry about.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Well, perhaps that's why living in Africa might not be
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: so bad because you'll have an extra 20 years. Because
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: we're behind. It takes us about a generation to catch up. Really,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting you said that catching up thing earlier, Charles.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: We do often act as a testing ground for certain things.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: And in others, we see what can go wrong and
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: not follow. But it all depends on who the players are.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: Exactly. That's exactly it, yeah.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: It is fascinating, that. I'll give you an example. Yeah,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: go on.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say, so we only have
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: one nuclear power station, right? And I don't know if
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: you know this, but the nuclear power station that we have,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: which is maybe 45 minutes from my house, is also
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: the only nuclear power station on the entire African continent.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Did you know that?
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: I did not know.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: And the reason why we cannot build and have not
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: been able to build any further nuclear power stations is
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: because of the green lobby, largely, and the anti-nuclear lobby.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: But I have no idea why that's the case across Africa.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: You would have thought by now there would have been
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: other nuclear power stations somewhere, somewhere on the continent. There
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: isn't one anywhere other than here. It's very, very strange.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Do you know who does control it or who did
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: build it?
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Well, so we're talking about Kuberg. So you would need
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: to look it up. But Kuberg was built in the
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: 1980s by a French company, if memory serves. You've got
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: me on the spot now.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: Sorry, I didn't mean to. I was just interested if
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: you did know.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: But it is controlled by the South African government. That's
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: what you mean. I mean, it's not private.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: But it has a huge amount of outsourcing going on
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: there because of the nature of what it is. I've
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: actually been there, I've visited, it's extremely well run and
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: it has facilities for expansion. In fact, if you're inside
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: the power station, they have a map on the wall
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: where they wanted to build more power stations around South Africa.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: And those locations still, they still exist on paper, but
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: they cannot do it. They're just not allowed to. And
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: this is, for me, quite interesting because this shows where
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: the state completely bends over to the sort of NGO
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: sort of cult that exists. I mean, I don't know
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: how they end up with so much power.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: It's not coming from the wind turbines anyway. Yeah. This
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: is a very good question. But I guess, yeah, it
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: is a very good question.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: I think often, well, yeah, it's difficult to know absolutely
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: for sure because this definitely doesn't mean that. But a
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: lot of NGOs, when you do take a little bit
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: of a look at the financing or who happens to
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: be one of the patrons or trustees, they... invariably are
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: traced back to people with enormous resources, who I suppose
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: might in other programmes be referred to as philanthropists and
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: are therefore, by other means, very influential. So I think
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: that may or may not be explain some of it because,
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: of course, the other interests that they may have.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: The nuclear thing, that will be an interesting test then
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: because certainly in Europe, but in the United Kingdom, there's
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: been a flurry of announcements about nuclear and nuclear here
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: now is being sold as a renewable energy source. So
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: that's how that works now.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Really? Oh yeah, it's renewable.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Renewable.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: It's green. Yeah, absolutely. It's completely green.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: But that's not what they argued a decade ago.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: No, because it was not presumably politically or financially expedient
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: at that particular point.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: But it is now. Or rather, there is.
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: there is sheer panic setting in because of modeling and
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: exactly how much energy was going to be coming from
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: all these terribly clever sources and this and the other.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: And actually, that's not going to work.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: Of course, again, this is all theoretical because some of
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: it concerns fusion. And as Mike is always quick to
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: point out, that has been a story that's been there
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: in the background for years and years and years, nothing's
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: actually really ever happened.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: So we'll wait and see.
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: But no, that is absolutely the idea, is that nuclear
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: will be picking up a considerable amount of the slack here,
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: or at least perhaps All of it, who knows?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Greenpeace has had a phenomenal negative impact, for example, on
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: our nuclear industry. When I say nuclear industry, I'm using
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: the term loosely. But, I mean, they protested a couple times,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: I think, against our only power station that's nuclear. In fact,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: they came in from the ocean on one of their
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: ships and scaled the walls and put up huge banners
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: on the power station saying, demanding it shut down and everything,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: you know. And they, for example, yield so much power.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: It's for me so strange how that happens. You would think,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: so like, again, I always say this jokingly, but at
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: the risk of being, quote unquote, a China maxer, the
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Chinese government would never allow that. They wouldn't allow Greenpeace
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: to come in and put banners on their power stations
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: and then still not develop power stations as a result.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: I don't have any issue with Greenpeace having the right
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: to put banners up. I absolutely support that because that
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: is freedom of speech.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I don't have any problem with that. It's dangerous though, Mike.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Is it?
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: How is it dangerous? Well, I mean, I think the, well, okay, sure.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think it's particularly safe to come into,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: you know, on a boat and then scale a power station.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? That's their choice.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: And I strongly object to anybody telling someone that they
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: can't do something because it's dangerous.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: That's not appropriate.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I say that.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Because in principle, I am, you know, pro-nuclear but that's
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with I don't particularly like how nuclear
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: has been implemented because of course the only reason that
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: they used uranium was for weapons production that's so you
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: know if we're going to use nuclear at least use
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: thorium which is notionally cleaner it is renewable in a
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: sense because you can reprocess the fuel and so theoretically
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: but of course they don't spend the money to do
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: that so they store it instead and that of course
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: is potentially an environmental disaster waiting to happen so there
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: are issues with every power generation but as a.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Principle I just feel that if you're going to generate energy.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: You should do it in the most energy-dense way that
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: you possibly can and hopefully have, you know, in terms
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: of the actual landmass that's affected by your power generation capability,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: you're minimizing that as much as you possibly can.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: But that wasn't my comment. My comment was more about
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: how an organization like Greenpeace has more power than the
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: state in its influence, which is bizarre. And that's why
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: I said China wouldn't allow that. Yeah, I just, I don't,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I don't, well, I understand what you're saying. I'm not
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: sure that China not allowing it is necessarily the example
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: that we should be holding up here.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not saying not allowing the protest. I'm not
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: talking about the protest. I'm talking about the production of
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: further nuclear. In other words, the green lobby has got
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: so much power that they're able to stop further production.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Yes. All right. Okay.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: Or at least that's the way that it appears. We
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: don't know for sure that that is why that's happening.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: There could be other factors. But I do agree with you.
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: It does seem to be the case. I mean, I
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: think it would be.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: Well, compared with the example you're giving about China, it's
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: a sort of... It strikes me as a yes-minister trap.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Mike is.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: I think, has already seen from, yes, Minister, for frankly,
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: any eventuality. And it's just the way these things are framed.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: There's also fear. There's propaganda. I mean, people, the average
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: person fears nuclear.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Well, that's what I'm saying.
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: So for somebody to stick their neck out and apparently
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: at governmental level to sort of disregard... any of those
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: fears in the West now. That is a pretty big
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: call because the hysteria is so great. So you can
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: say till you're blue in the face, yes, but it
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: would provide the ability to create a stable base level
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: of power on a very small footprint with minimal this,
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: that and the other. And then of course, the moment
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: somebody says, yes, but what about you know, all the,
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: all the other bits.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: Then you have to run away and pretend you never
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: had the idea in the first place.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: I think it was Astrid Stuckelberger, uh, who was on
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: my show back in the early years of the, of
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: the COVID era. She, if you don't know who she is, she, uh,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: worked with, uh, the WHO for, I think like 25 years.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: And she's, she's what you would consider a whistleblower. And
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: she was saying that, uh, Bill Gates, I think you
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: alluded to him earlier, Charles. Gavi, more specifically, has got
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: so much power that it can act as almost with
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: the same stature as a country within the WHO. That's
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: incredible if you consider that amount of influence.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: Well, it is, but then again, if you look at
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: the amount of money that is given to the WHO
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: by Gates and his interests, it's not really that surprising.
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: I think that would be the.
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: Case with very many of the bodies within which he's
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: able to influence an outcome.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: But then you should ask questions about NGOs.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, absolutely. Follow the money. it's how it works.
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: I think it's still a surprise to a lot of
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: people that organisations like the World Health Organisation do receive
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: funding or are even set up to receive funding from
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: anything that is not a country. It's completely perverse. How
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: on earth, how can you create that situation without taking
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: on the allegation that you're therefore going to be influenced
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: by individuals. It is an entirely natural consequence of it.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: So it's, yeah, it's peculiar, but I would absolutely agree.
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I think there are many instances
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: in which people like him might be said to have
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: more of an influence in a country. I mean, if
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: you look at, you know, again, Amazon, in terms of
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: where people spend their money, Of course, the influence is
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: absolutely gigantic compared with a particular state and the economy
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: of that state.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: You have just given us our talking point for next week,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: funding of political parties and NGOs. So I mentioned China earlier,
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: and I think I'm correct when I say that the
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Chinese government accepts no government donations from any kind of
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: NGO or organization within the country. However, you have in the,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is in the UK, what
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: it's like there, but in the US, the Republican Party,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Democrat Party gets massive amounts of money from all over
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: the place. Is it the same in the UK?
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: No, it's been traditionally much smaller scale. I mean, but
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: reform is clearly doing, making an effort to promote change
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: British politics into much more of a US model because
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: they've just had two really huge donations from crypto billionaires
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: and so you know we're starting to see that heading
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: in that direction but we should keep.
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: That for the next time alright okay so that's our
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: segue for next week okay so like last week we're
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: going to truncate this conversation a few minutes shorter um.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I think for the foreseeable future, actually, eh, Mike?
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: Let's just see how it goes, yeah.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: All right, let's just see how it goes. Okay, Charles
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: and Mike, it was great chatting about wind turbines. We'll
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: chat about funding next week.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: You can now cross it off your list properly in pen.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: I shall do that. Yes, with a pen. All right, guys,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: I'll chat to you.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Okay, thanks very much.