Latest / PGgrowth - Planned Giving podcast / NO 103: SPECIAL EPISODE All About Meghan Maack

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NO 103: SPECIAL EPISODE All About Meghan Maack · PGgrowth - Planned Giving podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: The PG Growth Podcast.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining me on the PG Growth Plan Giving Podcast.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Ed Sluga.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting conversation today with Megan Mack, who uh is a well-known fundraiser in the Ottawa area.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Megan uh uh is has joined PG Growth recently to be an associate of ours in that area, but working with organizations across the country as well.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always interested in how people get into fundraising.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's never an direct route.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's always really interesting how once they get into fundraising, they get involved in plan giving, which is also not a direct route, but Megan gives us a little insight into her journey through all of that and also what she's doing now and how she is helping organizations be better at fundraising and better at plan giving.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: So really interesting conversation.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Hope you enjoy it and uh learn a little bit more about Megan.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: Megan, it's great that you're joining me today.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: We do this with all of our consultants.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're new to the team.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very excited.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're all very excited to be here.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things we want to do always is to kind of introduce you to our clients, to the community and things like that.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Learn a little bit more about Megan Max.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um thank you for being here today and joining me and and giving us a little bit of insight into you.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm happy to be here.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for inviting me.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a great conversation.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: I hope so.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: I hope so.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Let's so you know, one of the things that I know about plan giving is that nobody starts off wanting to be in plan giving.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, nobody wants to start off being in fundraising, frankly.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be honest about that.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: We all know that.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then plan giving uh is something that you know used to be you graduated to, uh, or you know, you came in from another career as a financial planner or a state lawyer, and you come into it, but it's sort of you know an interesting thing.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: How did you first get involved with plan giving?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and you know, what brought you to plan giving through your career?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was sort of the mystery of it all.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, I worked in some bigger shops, and you know, there was the plan giving team off in the corner, and it was like, wow, what do they do over there?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of just wanted to try to figure that out, and they seemed so special.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um I was really drawn to that and just sort of wanted to be to be part of that.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And once I started to realize um the type of donors that were involved with plan giving, you know, it really spoke to me in terms of them being so open and honest.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when they did open up to you, it was such a privilege.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think it was that mystery side of things and then wanting to be part of that really deep relationship with donors and plan giving donors to me are uh the ultimate donor in many ways.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And when they do open up to you and put your organization on their will, it's such a such important decision.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me it was, yeah, feeling that that really exclusive specialness that really drew me into plan giving.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's interesting, the mystery.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I know I know a lot of our colleagues out there, I often joke that they're it doesn't matter the size of the shop, they're always that, you know, that office down the hall that nobody goes to, you know, because they do that, you know, crazy thing.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: What happened when you started to kind of investigate the mission?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm interested in that mystery statement.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: When you started investigating the mystery of plan giving, I mean, what did you what did you find was the mystery of it?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think like not all fundraisers, you know, some fundraisers run the other way.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh my gosh, all they talk about is you know, death and dying, and you know, I don't want to ever be a part of that.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's sort of not my thing.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas I, yeah, I I wasn't as afraid.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think um it takes a certain amount of emotional intelligence to work in plan giving, and that's not for everybody.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it was you want to be be in that club.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think I started to go to a few different workshops about plan giving and started to show an interest in it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: At that point in my career, I'd done a lot of event planning and peer-to-peer fundraising and had done some, you know, dabbled in major gifts.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a really good point in my career to think, you know, what area do I really want to focus on?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, plan giving really was the one for me based on that mystery, as well as it being being niche and exclusive.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I have to say it's about the donors too, those donors that that open up to you and you know, will have you in their home and and tell you, you know, their deepest personal secrets.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I find for me that was such a privilege to be part of.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't find that working with the different other different donor groups in the same way.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we well, we often hear that, you know, that's uh, and we'll say to to people brand new to plan giving, just phone the donors, phone your expectancy list, talk to them, they're gonna really, you know, inspire you, invigorate you, you know, get you really excited by this this work.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: What but what keeps you excited about this kind of work?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you continue to do and have done all sorts of different things, sometimes moving away from plan giving a little bit and then sort of always focusing back on it.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, what what what's the motivator after the the mystery was kind of removed?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, you mentioned the donors, um, but it's one of those areas of fundraising, and I'll say this, and we all know it to be true.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: It is, again, not particularly understood by the vast majority of people working in the charitable sector.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's kind of mysterious and things like that.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: What's motivating you to stay there?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Where lots of people, as you say, run away from it.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what keeps you going?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's that in my different roles, that right now I'm working at Pearly Health, I'm working on a capital campaign, I'm the campaign manager, but plan giving always comes up, even though you know it's not part of our gift table.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: But wow, those plan gifts really would make a difference, helping us get to our goal.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's that plan giving is sort of, as I mentioned, a mystery and on the side of the table.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: But really, organizations depend on those plan giving um dollars to come in.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so many simple ways to make plan giving part of your organization and to make a plan giving program and just to start with some smaller items in terms of, oh, let's put a couple of questions on the survey about plan giving.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: What a great idea! Or let's add a tick box onto our um annual giving form.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I love sharing that with different organizations and being that person at the table that's reminding leadership, hey, let's not forget about plan giving.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about it, but let's put our efforts in where they need to be so that we can have some that revenue stream come in.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: As well as I think the donors that are your most loyal are your best plan giving prospects.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: So having um a process in place to make sure that thank you calls are taking place, that's an excellent place for people to tell you, you know, I'm making a change in my life, I'm I'm making a new will and opening that door to having those deeper conversations.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've never asked someone specifically, hey, let's put a charity in your will.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's people that come to me and are opening up and and really wanting to show the love of the charity, and plan giving is that perfect vehicle.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a combination of making sure that organizations don't forget about plan giving and that um, you know, the small things are in place as well as the larger programs.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've been lucky to work in bigger shops where some PG alumni have set up amazing programs, and I'm able to take that big shop experience and help smaller shops to put in some of these tactics so that they too can reap the benefits of plan giving.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's interesting.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: A couple of things you said there.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we just had a conversation recently with a client and we're doing a survey of a sort, you know, a plan giving survey.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're trying, and I had to explain to them because they come from the annual fund world.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: I had to explain that this isn't a statistical survey, you know, this is prospect research, is what we're doing.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and they look at it as acquisition, and you know, and when we start focusing on donors, they're like, well, shouldn't we be focusing on the entire community?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's well, no, we start here.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's a misconception around it about what acquisition means.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: What's what do these surveys mean?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: What are we trying to do with this?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's still, yeah, it's a really interesting thing.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: We still have to be um fully versed as plan giving professionals so that we can explain to our colleagues, as you say, at the table, around the table, how do we include this, why do we include this, yeah, you know, and what's the methodology uh so that we we bring about uh some successes around it.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very different kind of success from some of the other work.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, relatively new to PG Growth, and so let's talk about a highlight, you know, you've haven't done a lot of work with us yet, but let's talk about a highlight in your plan giving career, the work that you've done, you know, a great story that you can tell about a donor, a great, you know, something that you've done.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you think back about the work you've done in plan giving, you know, what's a highlight?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Could be it could be a campaign or or uh launching a program.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like what would be one thing you look back at and go, wow, I'm so excited, so proud that we I did that was part of that activity.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm, that's a great question.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a few different things I would say, like I had mentioned um being at the table and being that person that can bring forward ideas.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And one area that I've really grown a lot in is working individually with donors and having them share their story.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I've gotten to work with many different families over the years.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and not everybody wants to share their story why they've decided to leave a gift in their will, but the ones that have shared their story and then share pictures and you know, share their motivations for deciding to leave a gift in their will to that particular organization, it's just incredible.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, recently I worked with a couple who are amazing donors at Pearly Health, where I am working right now, and they were just so open to sharing their story.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they spoke in an event that we had and you know, stood in front of a room of 100 people and just said how much they love Pearly Health, how involved they are, how you know it's listed in their will under the names of their grandchildren and their children, and how all their kids know how excited they are that they're such big supporters of Pearly Health.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And finding those stories and talking to those people and having them share their story is such an amazing way to inspire other people.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's just great when you meet these, you know, people that aren't, they're everyday people.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're the the couple that I'm speaking about, you know, modestly worked in the government, um, had a family, uh bought a house.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I find that's what really excites me about plan giving donors is their humbleness.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: When really, when you look at the numbers and and the amount that people are donating, they're they're affluent, but not affluent in a way that we often see in philanthropy.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, that's it's such a beautiful part of philanthropy to give in that way, to share your story, to come and speak at an event and to share pictures of your family.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, that's one story that really sticks with me.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I love to reuse that model in that way.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and ask different people if they will share their story and keep those stories on hand and keep those relationships really strong so that you can call on on people at different times.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: And while they're doing you a favor, I think they get a lot out of it too.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: They feel proud of um, they ask for copies of your newsletter to show their family, or you know, they're they're thrilled to come.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're gonna have another event.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to speak again.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's that finding those people and then sharing their stories and really highlighting how much they're being so generous and how honored you are that they've chosen your organization.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I love I love stories like that because for a couple of reasons.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: One is, as our colleague Peggy Colleen says, you know, it's truly is the democratization of major gifts.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: These people, yeah, these don, these supporters of causes that and they're meaningful causes to them, have this opportunity to make this contribution to that cause that they would never be able to make in life.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and you know, I think that's a really wonderful opportunity.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: It opens up this ability for people to, you know, you know, we talk a lot about legacy, we use the same terms over and over again.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: We really mean it, but we forget what's behind these terms, which is true.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Meaningful engagement with people, yeah, and knowing that they're leaving, leaving a part of themselves um behind.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and it's actually really important for us, broom closet or not, uh, you know, they say that there's two two moments when a person passes away or dies, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that is when they actually die, but the other is when their memory is lost, it's no longer there.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a wonderful way to keep that memory continuing.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And we had there's a responsibility for organizations at that moment to keep those memories alive.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to uh honor those.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I the other reason I love the story you just told, because I see it all the time and I use it all the time, is it's a great thing to talk to senior leadership and boards about, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because boards will and senior leadership will talk at length about the importance of the mission and how it needs to be funded and and drive it forward and expect a lot of fundraisers too.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: We need you to raise more money for this mission, but then we'll turn to those board members and say, What have you done beyond tell us what we know?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Which is this is an important mission.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: We need to raise money for.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Have you created a gift in your will?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: These people over here have they have this wonderful story.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: They're not trying to run the organization, they're not trying to govern it or or lead it.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: What they want to do is support it, and you need to do the same.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a really for me, it's a bit of a tool when engaging with senior leadership and boards because it it's it kind of they quietly feel a little shame, you know, because you have these wonderful donors who are like, just use it.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need any recognition, I just think you're doing wonderful work, and they're leading by example rather than leading by position or yeah, or governance role.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really interesting.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, recently I had a board member who actually brought in a plan-giving prospect.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's the first time in my career that a board member who has a gift in his will brought in a friend of his who is single, never been married, no children, and is quite affluent.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he he said, Megan, I have a friend I'd like you to meet.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Can we come in uh to Pearly Health and and do a tour and have a chat?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and we did.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And this board member sat across the table from me telling his friend how he and his wife have decided to leave a gift in their will and encouraging his friend to do the same.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: He was sort of the pushy one, and I it I was so interesting.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this gentleman really was very unsure about the whole process.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, from there we did start a relationship.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's still in the deciding times, but it was this board member who was just so genuine about his decision, and that's where the newsletters and the the testimonials come in because people look for people like themselves and then they make a decision.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you know, Sam down the block has done this.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a great idea for me as well.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, yeah, finding those opportunities is is really important for organizations.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I love I love knowing that and just being able to spread that around.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's wonderful.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, again, new newish to PG Growth, but let me ask you this question about plan giving itself.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: You've seen, you've been involved in various levels, both as a practitioner, but also in various volunteer roles in the fundraising world, watching plan giving.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: How have you seen plan giving in the Canadian context evolve over the years?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you haven't seen it evolved.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it as a profession, it as a way to raise money, what have you seen happening in the time that you've been working in fundraising?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think there's there's a shift in a lot of ways where you know the tactics that larger shops have used haven't changed that much.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we're seeing a lot of smaller shops getting involved in plan giving.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was thought of before as, oh, people only leave gifts in their wills to larger organizations like hospitals and universities.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And while that's true, um, smaller organizations can also accept gifts and will, and it's it's not a burden on them to administer an estate or to steward donors who have chosen to leave a gift in their will.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting is having worked in small shops and larger shops, the magnitude of a gift and a will to a smaller organization.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I volunteer with um Able2 and Ottawa, and you know, they've received one or two uh state gifts in the last five years, but those gifts have been significant to that organization and made a true difference in their operating plan.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think we saw that as much in the last few, you know, the last little while.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: So seeing that shift of small shops realizing the value of um having a plan giving somewhat of a marketing plan and just being open to the idea that they too are worthy of plan gifts, I think is a shift.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I'm really excited about.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we'll see more of that as we see this, you know, great transfer of wealth.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then seeing younger fundraisers also being a little bit more curious about um plan giving and gifts and will, I think is is a good thing.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that next generation is um interested in plan giving.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think they're gonna change things around, but at the same time, they know that a lot of the things that we've done in plan giving um they work.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Let's not change them too much, and going back to that to the methods that really um that do show that impact at the end of the day.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, and and uh that we used to joke years ago, it's been 30 years of 30 plus years working in plan giving now for me.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember when I first started working in it as a young consultant, we'd get phone calls, and it often started the small organization, and the small organization would start the conversation this way.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: We just got a bequest gift in, it's our first one ever.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was huge.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: How do we get more?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right, yeah, yeah.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and uh I I think you know, if I look at it 30 years later, having just gone to my first CAGP conference was in 1996, I just went to the most recent one in 2026.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, there you go.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now the smaller shops are coming and saying we get these regularly, which is great, and we want more of them for sure, and we know that we need to be proactive.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I've seen this that migration, yeah, um, uh, over the years.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: There is a little slippage here and there, but uh, and not not for today's conversation, but uh, but um, you know, uh that's really that's been an evolution that I've seen as well.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: What excites you about the future?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you've been at this for a while, you're now kind of being a little bit of a consultant around this as well, but what do you, you know, you're you're looking at this from your macro lens, this the sector itself.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: What excites you about the future of plan giving?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think for me personally, like working with PG Growth, like I've never been a fundraiser that only works in one area or one cause.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked in international development, I've worked in social services, healthcare, and uh higher ed as well.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when I think about the variety of causes, and you know, every time I talk to you, it's like, oh, have you heard of this organization?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what about this organization?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all the different sectors that are um are changing and evolving within the Canadian context.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we know there's a rise in the number of charitable organizations, but it's it's the different sectors and and the evolution of those sectors, I think, that excites me.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, just being knowing that plan giving can impact all these different sectors and you know, the growth in the different sectors and the variety.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think is is just so interesting.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm happy that I have this experience of working in different sectors because they all definitely have a certain kind of donor.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I to me that's part of the excitement too, is really figuring out, you know, who is this donor base and and you know what speaks to them and and are they open to conversations?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really lucky at Pearly Health to have such loyal donors who actually call you back and will have conversations with you.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I've worked in other shops and other sectors, you know, international development being one of them, where it's it's a chase.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard to get people to call you back.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's a different type of conversation.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, I think for me, what excites me is that the future of all these different causes and knowing, especially with my work with PG Growth, that I'll be able to work with different causes.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: I recently was able to attend an event of um private schools, and I'd never really been in in that sector and that cause.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, just being with the fundraisers from the different private schools, I thought, wow, this is a different energy.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is a different fuzz.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, talking to them about their donors and it's a different world.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, all these different causes and and different worlds, um, that excites me.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I see that being really a bright spot for plan giving because we know that we have a role to play with all these different sectors, and there's no sector that we can't play a role in.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what's what you're experiencing or what you're saying anyway is uh everyone's caught on to this.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: It used to be the other group, you know, you mentioned hospitals and universities, and the other group was faith organizations, of course.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're involved in this years ago.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, everybody's involved in it now, which is really, really great.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's really really wonderful insight.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want to learn a couple.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: We have a couple of personal questions I want to ask about Meg and Mac now.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, firstly, what's one surprising fact about you that lots of people don't know, or that you can't, you know, what what you're willing to share anything?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Something surprising that um, you know, maybe you know what your chosen career would have been if, you know, that sort of thing.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: What's something surprising we don't know about you?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's funny you say that because we were talking at the beginning about, you know, how we don't plan on becoming a fundraiser or especially a plan giving expert.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, I fall into that category.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: After I finished um my first Bachelor of Arts at Carlton University, I of course fell into the world of hospitality and had uh always worked in restaurants.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is during the 80s and 90s of a tech boom.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was actually a catering manager for uh Lone Star Catering, a local fajita hotspot.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned so much in the four years that I worked at Lone Star.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Not only did I drive around the entire city, probably lost more than half the time because this is before GPS, of course, driving and delivering fajitas, but I spent time in the office.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And back then we learned a lot by working in the office, and I think my phone skills were, you know, just so um tested, working in a very busy catering shop, working with customers, having orders placed, arranging, you know, small events and large events.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I started my career.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I'm happy I did.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I learned so much, and I really had a love for fajitas and all things Tex Mex.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: All my clothes smelled like mesquite.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it was just yeah, a different time and it was an exciting time, but I'll I'll never forget learning those customer service skills, which I do think are transferable to so many different areas of fundraising.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we all like to say that you know, we hate events, and event planning is just like not something we want to do.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: But uh a fundraiser once said to me, you'll never get away from events.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm my event planning skills were definitely tested when I was a catering manager for Lone Star.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh now does Lone Star have a restaurant too?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Does Lone Star have a restaurant too?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've been to the Lone Star restaurant.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it was hugely popular, it's still open, still the same location, and all the neighbors complain because everything smells like mesquite, but it's uh in the 90s, it was busy, and that was like you know, exciting food in Ottawa was something different, was fajitas.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, very popular, very exciting, and then it was the tech movie.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: You still like fajitas?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: Is that something or is the yeah, I like tackles better?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, but it was uh yeah, it was fun times and busy times, and yeah, happy I learned so much there.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so another question, and and this uh this is one that uh you know I I like, uh, which is you know, if you could go back knowing what you know now and go back and telling your your your neophyte, your brand new fundraising, plan giving fundraising self something, you know, what would it be?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: What would you sort of, you know, if you could, you know, send a message in a bottle back in time and it arrived on Megan Mack's desk when she first became a plan giving professional?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: What would that bit of uh wisdom, philosophy, some fact, you know, what would that be that you would tell yourself, your younger self?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just yeah, not being afraid of the of the quiet, you know.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: We we think at first, I think I did, and you know, I learned not to be a salesperson.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're not salespeople, we're not pushy.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is philanthropy, it needs to come from the heart.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, recently I was working with a donor on deciding um what to name a space at Pearlie Health.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we went in with an idea of, oh, we want to name it XX, and you know, we thought it was a great idea.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And when we mentioned what we thought the space should be named, we I was with another colleague and we sat in silence, I think for almost two minutes.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's an older gentleman, he's a resident at Pearlie, and it was a significant gift that he made.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, did he not wait two minutes and then told us a name that we never had thought of for this space that you know he were naming it after him, and it was the most brilliant idea, and it really just reminded me, and I wish I'd known this early in my career, that it's okay to sit in silence, it's okay not to say anything.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And those moments when you wait and let a donor really percolate and get back to you.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can ask a question or ask permission to ask a question, which is something I really do a lot when I'm speaking with donors.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, may I ask you about your plans for your estate?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you just wait and listen.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I think it takes time.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not something that we're all built to do, but it I think with experience, it becomes so much more of a skill.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, telling my younger self, talk less, listen more, and yeah, be really patient when you're working with donors in terms of giving them that opportunity to really express their philanthropy.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's I, you know, for me, that's one of the guiding principles that I have and that we teach.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it kind of reminds me of a gentleman named Jerry Panis.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you know that name.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: He was an American um major gift capital campaign consulting professional, well known, big programs, and he used to call it listen the gift.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I I know when I would say that or have it on a slide, a lot of people would say, Yeah, do you you you know you meant listening for the gift?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, no, listen as a verb, you know, listen the gift.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's an action.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Listening as an action.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Patience is key.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that's the other thing I always take away.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're, you know, what you just said resonates.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I had a the CEO of a very large Canadian charity say, you know, what's the biggest resource I can give to my plan giving team?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, patience.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Patience is the biggest resource.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh, and I think that needs to be heard by not only young professionals, but also senior leaders right now.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Megan, this has been a really wonderful conversation.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate your time um and sharing a little bit about yourself with us.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was great to chat with you.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think we could talk all day about planned giving because we both love it so much.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: We can indeed.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, we'll do this again soon.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the PG Growth Podcast.
• 31:14
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• 31:22
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