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The Ant Hill Kids _ Roch Thériault · This is monsters

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome back to This is Monsters. I'm your narrator,
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Speaker 1: Giles with a J. I just want to take a
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Speaker 1: quick moment to let you know that we're on season
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Speaker 1: 21 and the theme is strange and unusual. I feel
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Speaker 1: like I might have been a little too aggressive in
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Speaker 1: my previous intro and I want to make things a
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Speaker 1: little more positive, so I'm going to encourage you to
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Speaker 1: caress the like button and maybe hug the subscribe button.
0:26
Speaker 1: Show it some love. Don't hate. Save your hate for
0:30
Speaker 1: the monsters. On with the show. In life, we meet
0:35
Speaker 1: people who have a profound effect on us. Coaches, teachers, bosses,
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Speaker 1: they all can become mentors and give us a sense
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Speaker 1: of loyalty. Of course, that can be taken to an
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Speaker 1: extreme and the mentorship can twist into brainwashing. In the
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Speaker 1: woods of Canada, a small group of people would end
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Speaker 1: up so brainwashed that they would do anything for their leader,
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Speaker 1: even when they were asked to dispose of the bodies
1:01
Speaker 1: of those he had killed. This is Monsters. Rock Theriault
1:32
Speaker 1: was born on May 16, 1947 in Quebec, Canada, a
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Speaker 1: descendant of one of the earliest families to travel to
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Speaker 1: Canada from western France. He grew up in Thetford Mines,
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Speaker 1: just south of Quebec City. Though considered intelligent, he attended
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Speaker 1: a local school that only went to grade 7 and
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Speaker 1: never continued on to the nearby high school. He eventually
1:54
Speaker 1: started working as a carpenter and worked to educate himself
1:57
Speaker 1: to become a self-proclaimed intellectual. Later in life, he would
2:02
Speaker 1: be considered a hypochondriac, but he did suffer medical issues
2:06
Speaker 1: when he was younger. As a teen, he had frequent
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Speaker 1: stabbing pains in his abdomen, which led to multiple operations
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Speaker 1: to remove ulcers when he was in his early 20s. Eventually,
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Speaker 1: he would become known for being a notorious crybaby. He
2:20
Speaker 1: would complain about any little problem, with some saying he
2:23
Speaker 1: could make a case of the sniffles seem like a
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Speaker 1: life-threatening illness. Rock grew up in a Catholic household, but
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Speaker 1: his father, Hyacinth, was a member of a group called
2:33
Speaker 1: the White Berets. They started during the Great Depression with
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Speaker 1: ideas of how to improve the economy. But the group
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Speaker 1: the Therios were in turned to religion when they failed
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Speaker 1: in politics and began preaching anti-Semitic ideas about Jewish bankers
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Speaker 1: trying to control the world. The family patriarch would make
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Speaker 1: the children wear white berets and they would go door
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Speaker 1: to door citing prayers and asking for donations. Rock did
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Speaker 1: not like having to march around begging for handouts and
3:00
Speaker 1: it's where his distaste for the Catholic religion began. Rock
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Speaker 1: would go on to tell people that he was severely
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Speaker 1: abused by his father, but his accounts have been disputed
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Speaker 1: by various people who knew him when he was younger,
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Speaker 1: including his father. Despite Rock not being interested in Catholicism specifically,
3:18
Speaker 1: he would go on to become somewhat obsessed with the Bible,
3:21
Speaker 1: specifically the Book of Revelations. It's the part of the
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Speaker 1: Bible that talks about the end of the world and
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Speaker 1: has been the focus of many a doomsday cult. When
3:30
Speaker 1: Rock was in his later teens, he met a young
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Speaker 1: woman named Francine Grenier at a local dance. The two
3:37
Speaker 1: started dating and got married in 1967. Rock built a
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Speaker 1: house a little more than half a mile or about
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Speaker 1: one kilometer down the street from his parents, but it
3:47
Speaker 1: wasn't long before the couple moved to Montreal. Rock started
3:51
Speaker 1: working for the fire department inspecting chimneys. The couple had
3:55
Speaker 1: their first child, a son named Rock Jr., in January
3:59
Speaker 1: of 1969. While Francine was pregnant with their second child
4:04
Speaker 1: was when Rock had his first surgery for his ulcers.
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Speaker 1: Their second son, Francois, was born in April of 1970.
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Speaker 1: Later that year, Rock had his second surgery, but it
4:15
Speaker 1: didn't seem to help. Soon after, he was diagnosed with
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Speaker 1: dumping syndrome. The condition was caused by the nerves that
4:23
Speaker 1: were severed during his surgeries and made the food he
4:26
Speaker 1: ate not get processed in his stomach properly. He would
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Speaker 1: spend the rest of his life with pain and heartburn.
4:33
Speaker 1: That wasn't the only change in the man, though. People
4:36
Speaker 1: who knew him said his personality also changed and he
4:39
Speaker 1: started obsessing over medicine, reading anatomy textbooks, and telling people
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Speaker 1: he was dying. He claimed that after the surgery, his
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Speaker 1: insides were made of plastic. People say he also became
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Speaker 1: reckless and self-centered. He quit his job with the fire
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Speaker 1: department and the family moved back to Tetford Mines. Rock
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Speaker 1: started working on his own as a carpenter and woodcarver,
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Speaker 1: making ornate furniture and wooden mugs. While there, he asked
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Speaker 1: his parents if he could start a nudist colony on
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Speaker 1: some of their land, but they said no. At the
5:12
Speaker 1: beginning of 1977, members of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church came
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Speaker 1: to Tetford Mines to preach about the future of humanity.
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Speaker 1: Rock was in attendance at that very first sermon. Eventually,
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Speaker 1: the evangelists left, and the small congregation they had built
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Speaker 1: began having weekly services in a hotel room before going
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Speaker 1: out to proselytize. Rock was immediately engrossed in the teachings,
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Speaker 1: and he quit drinking and smoking, and he became a vegetarian.
5:40
Speaker 1: By then, he had started seeing a woman named Giselle,
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Speaker 1: whose last name changes depending on the source. He brought
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Speaker 1: her into the church where he told the other followers
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Speaker 1: that his first wife was heartless and had left him.
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Speaker 1: She eventually would, but it was because Rock wasn't taking
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Speaker 1: care of his family and was cheating on her. He
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Speaker 1: made a bed in the back of his truck to
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Speaker 1: keep up the appearance that he and Giselle weren't having
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Speaker 1: sex before marriage, which they were. He also began selling
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Speaker 1: Adventist literature as an official delegate for the Health and
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Speaker 1: Home Services of Quebec, which was basically the church. He
6:15
Speaker 1: quickly became a top seller. Through the church, Rock met
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Speaker 1: a number of young adults, many of whom were women.
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Speaker 1: Solange Boilar was born on March 2, 1956, in Quebec.
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Speaker 1: She was the baby of the family, which meant she
6:30
Speaker 1: was a bit spoiled. She did well in school, and
6:33
Speaker 1: after high school, she enrolled in a business administration program
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Speaker 1: at a college in Tetford Mines. There she met other
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Speaker 1: young adults, Jacques Fizet, Chantal Labrie, and Francine Laflamme, all
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Speaker 1: of whom would go on to be followers of Rock.
6:49
Speaker 1: He began giving lessons directly to them and his group
6:52
Speaker 1: of followers grew. In 1977, he and his followers attended
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Speaker 1: an Adventist retreat and it was there that Rock claimed
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Speaker 1: to have had a vision of God telling him that
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Speaker 1: the area was a holy place. That was the beginning
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Speaker 1: of Rock believing that he had a more important message
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Speaker 1: than the Adventist church, but he continued on for a
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Speaker 1: while longer. He brought in more and more followers, and
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Speaker 1: eventually Giselle's apartment was overstuffed with various young adults. Rock
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Speaker 1: ended up renting a house that the group turned into
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Speaker 1: a clinic to help people stop smoking and live a
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Speaker 1: healthy lifestyle. He convinced one local to transfer his wife,
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Speaker 1: who was being treated for leukemia at the hospital, to
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Speaker 1: his clinic where he could treat her with a healthy diet. Oh, well,
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Speaker 1: why didn't the trained and licensed doctors think of that?
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Speaker 1: The woman was dead a month later. It was around
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Speaker 1: that time that the Adventist pastors voted Rock out of
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Speaker 1: the church. Rock didn't really care much. He was well
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Speaker 1: on his way to starting his own religion where instead
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Speaker 1: of delivering God's message, he was the God that gave
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Speaker 1: the messages. Giselle didn't like that Rock was spending so
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Speaker 1: much time with other young women and eventually asked him
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Speaker 1: to marry her, which he did, but it was quickly
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Speaker 1: apparent that he had just done it to pacify her.
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Speaker 1: When she became pregnant and told Rock that she was
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Speaker 1: going to leave, he punched her in the face and
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Speaker 1: locked her in the bedroom for two days. Giselle was
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Speaker 1: not going to go home to her parents as Rock
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Speaker 1: had already proclaimed that his followers were no longer allowed
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Speaker 1: to contact their families. Of course, until later when he
8:27
Speaker 1: needed them to beg for money. In the beginning, though,
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Speaker 1: isolating members from the people who might convince them to
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Speaker 1: leave the group is a common tactic for cult leaders.
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Speaker 1: The cult, and most importantly its leader, is the only
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Speaker 1: thing that understands them and is giving them freedom, when
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Speaker 1: in reality they were having their freedom taken away. An
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Speaker 1: increase in paranoia is also common with cult leaders, and
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Speaker 1: Rock was no different. Since Rock had been kicked out
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Speaker 1: of the Adventist church, his supply of literature and natural
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Speaker 1: foods had gone away, and suppliers were upset about his
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Speaker 1: unpaid debts. The police also started keeping an eye on
9:03
Speaker 1: the clinic after the death of the leukemia patient, so
9:06
Speaker 1: the leader decided it was time to move on. On
9:09
Speaker 1: June 5th, 1978, Rock told his followers that they needed
9:13
Speaker 1: to spread their word and a caravan of people including
9:16
Speaker 1: six men, twelve women, and two children left the area
9:20
Speaker 1: and headed out where they held Stop Smoking seminars in
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Speaker 1: various areas for about a month before Rock took them
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Speaker 1: out to a remote spot on the Gaspé Peninsula in
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Speaker 1: New Brunswick. There he told his congregation that the end
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Speaker 1: of the world was going to happen on February 17th, 1979.
9:37
Speaker 1: He said that God had appointed him as his personal
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Speaker 1: emissary and, of course, anyone who was loyal to him
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Speaker 1: would be saved from the impending apocalypse. We really need
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Speaker 1: to start teaching every single person when they're young that
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Speaker 1: if anyone ever says that God told them that the
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Speaker 1: world would end on XYZ date and that you would
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Speaker 1: be spared if you follow them, it's a fucking cult.
9:57
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that history has shown us that people...
10:00
Speaker 1: who say that have never been right and they're just
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Speaker 1: trying to start a cult. Seriously, let's stop believing these
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Speaker 1: cult leaders already. And then he ends up inevitably claiming
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Speaker 1: that all the women need to sleep with him because
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Speaker 1: it's a fucking cult. Of course, after finding a clearing
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Speaker 1: in the wilderness and building an encampment, unsurprisingly, Rock started
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Speaker 1: sleeping with all the women. It's crazy how many people
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Speaker 1: are willing to believe that God has a specific date
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Speaker 1: that the world is gonna end, and before that happens,
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Speaker 1: he really needs one dude to bang as many women
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Speaker 1: as possible. Either God's an absolute freak, or the dude
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Speaker 1: is lying. Which seems more likely. But I digress. Rock
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Speaker 1: found a spot that was supposedly holy and he had
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Speaker 1: the group start building. He couldn't do any of the labor,
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Speaker 1: of course, because of his stomach pains, but he had
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Speaker 1: a bunch of loyal followers to clear the land and
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Speaker 1: build a cabin. Two of the men spent the summer
10:56
Speaker 1: digging a well in the middle of the cabin. Others
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Speaker 1: hauled large rocks in to build a fireplace. While Rock
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Speaker 1: was relaxing, watching his flock do all the work, he
11:07
Speaker 1: compared them to ants all working together. He began calling
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Speaker 1: the group the Ant Hill Kids, which gave them a
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Speaker 1: sense of being more of a club than a full-fledged cult.
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Speaker 1: Once the cabin was finished, Rock gave all of the
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Speaker 1: members biblical names, calling himself Moses, and began sleeping with
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Speaker 1: all the women. That angered a heavily pregnant Giselle, and
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Speaker 1: she ran off, but Rock caught her and threatened her.
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Speaker 1: He told her that he was Moses and she had
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Speaker 1: to listen to him or else God would smash her skull.
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Speaker 1: The closest town was too far away to walk to,
11:38
Speaker 1: so she gave in and returned to the cabin. They
11:42
Speaker 1: did lose a few members, though, with one woman returning
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Speaker 1: to France when her passport expired and a family of three,
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Speaker 1: which included one of the children who had set off
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Speaker 1: with them. Rock didn't seem to try to stop them.
11:54
Speaker 1: In order to make money, the group started baking and
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Speaker 1: selling their goods in various towns. A bunch of the
12:00
Speaker 1: members also began receiving welfare checks, which all went to Rock.
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Speaker 1: The Jonestown Massacre happened on November 18th, 1978, which put
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Speaker 1: cult activity into the global spotlight. You can check out
12:14
Speaker 1: the episode I made about that cult. The link is
12:16
Speaker 1: in the description. The Canadian media began to focus its
12:20
Speaker 1: attention on the man who called himself Moses with a
12:23
Speaker 1: group of young college dropouts living in the woods. While
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Speaker 1: Rock and a follower were driving to a radio interview
12:30
Speaker 1: on December 11th, he was stopped by the police and,
12:33
Speaker 1: despite them not being able to take him into custody,
12:35
Speaker 1: he agreed to go with them to undergo a series
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Speaker 1: of psychological evaluations. A master manipulator, Rock easily convinced the
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Speaker 1: psychologist that he was of no harm to anyone. He
12:47
Speaker 1: returned to the camp where he continued his relationships with
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Speaker 1: multiple women, even going as far as to have a
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Speaker 1: ceremony to make them all his wives. February 17th, 1979
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Speaker 1: came and went without any apocalypse. Rock explained that nailing
13:03
Speaker 1: down the exact time of such an event was difficult.
13:06
Speaker 1: He said, quote, In the eyes of God, one second
13:09
Speaker 1: could be 40 of our years, just as 40 of
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Speaker 1: his years may be one second to us. Then why
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Speaker 1: did you give an exact date, genius? Chantal Labrie's parents
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Speaker 1: were sure that their daughter would see that Rock was
13:22
Speaker 1: a fraud when that date came and the world didn't end,
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Speaker 1: but a month later, when the young woman hadn't left
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Speaker 1: the cult, they got a court order to force her
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Speaker 1: to undergo a psychiatric evaluation. Police showed up at the
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Speaker 1: cabin on March 17th and said they were taking Chantal,
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Speaker 1: but Rock wouldn't allow them inside. They ended up leaving
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Speaker 1: without the woman. Jacques Fisset left the group not long after,
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Speaker 1: claiming that Rock was becoming too violent, but the leader
13:48
Speaker 1: told his followers that the devil had taken him. On
13:52
Speaker 1: April 18th, the police returned and arrested Rock for obstruction
13:55
Speaker 1: of justice. He was ordered to have a 30-day psychiatric evaluation,
14:00
Speaker 1: and during that time, Chantal was taken for her evaluation
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Speaker 1: while families of other cult members were allowed to go
14:06
Speaker 1: into the settlement to try to get their children out.
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Speaker 1: They had no luck. Even Chantal returned to the cabin
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Speaker 1: after the doctors determined her to be in perfect mental health.
14:17
Speaker 1: Rock was able to talk to the media while in
14:19
Speaker 1: the hospital where he showed them letters of support, some
14:22
Speaker 1: with money included. The attempt to break up the cult
14:25
Speaker 1: backfired and Rock became something of a folk hero who
14:28
Speaker 1: was helping young troubled people get support to change their
14:32
Speaker 1: lives for the better. Back at the camp, Rock's behavior
14:36
Speaker 1: became more erratic. He had abandoned all of the healthy
14:39
Speaker 1: living he had once preached and was drinking alcohol and soda.
14:43
Speaker 1: He had lost some followers, including a woman with multiple
14:46
Speaker 1: sclerosis who had been at the clinic before they moved
14:49
Speaker 1: out to the wilderness. She fell into a coma and
14:52
Speaker 1: died in October of 1979. Police retrieved the body and
14:57
Speaker 1: investigated her death, but it was ruled to be due
15:00
Speaker 1: to natural causes. They did welcome the arrival of Guy Veer,
15:04
Speaker 1: a man who Rock had met in the hospital during
15:07
Speaker 1: his psychiatric evaluation. Outside of that, Rock decided a better
15:12
Speaker 1: plan for building up his following was to father new members.
15:16
Speaker 1: By the early 80s, Rock had fathered three children by
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Speaker 1: three different women, Giselle, Nicole, and Solange. Solange had given
15:23
Speaker 1: birth to her first child, who was fathered by a
15:26
Speaker 1: different cult member. There were also two children from a
15:29
Speaker 1: married couple who had previously joined the cult. Rock was
15:33
Speaker 1: said to treat the children very violently, but his physical
15:36
Speaker 1: abuse was not reserved for just the children. He started
15:40
Speaker 1: believing that his followers need to be kept in line
15:42
Speaker 1: and that violence was the best way to do that.
15:45
Speaker 1: He would punch the members and hit them with hammers.
15:49
Speaker 1: He told one follower, Jacques Giguerre, that he needed to
15:52
Speaker 1: prove his loyalty by cutting off one of his wife, Maryse's, toes.
15:57
Speaker 1: He said that if Jacques didn't cut one off, then
15:59
Speaker 1: he would cut them all off. Jacques relented and cut
16:02
Speaker 1: off one of Maryse's pinky toes. After that, Rock made
16:06
Speaker 1: Jacques his main enforcer. On March 23, 1980, Rock's two
16:12
Speaker 1: sons from his first marriage, who were 10 and 12
16:14
Speaker 1: by then, arrived at the camp and the leader organized
16:17
Speaker 1: a huge party to celebrate. Guy Veer had not been
16:21
Speaker 1: brought into the camp as a full member of the cult.
16:24
Speaker 1: He had actually signed a contract with Rock to watch
16:27
Speaker 1: the three children who were not fathered by him in
16:30
Speaker 1: exchange for food, beer, and a place to live. The
16:34
Speaker 1: official version of events that were accepted in court were
16:37
Speaker 1: as follows. Guy was watching four-year-old Miriam and two-year-old Samuel,
16:43
Speaker 1: who were the children of Jacques and Maurice Giguere, as
16:45
Speaker 1: well as two-year-old Simon, who Solange had had with another member.
16:50
Speaker 1: Guy claimed that Samuel would not stop crying, and in
16:53
Speaker 1: a fit of anger, he picked the boy up by
16:55
Speaker 1: the throat and punched him in the face five or
16:58
Speaker 1: six times. The following day, Rock found out and took
17:01
Speaker 1: the boy to Gabrielle, who had medical training and acted
17:04
Speaker 1: as the group nurse. They said that Samuel's head was
17:08
Speaker 1: flopping around and that his penis was swollen. It was
17:12
Speaker 1: described that Rock took a razor, dipped it in some alcohol,
17:15
Speaker 1: and then cut open the boy's penis to allow the
17:18
Speaker 1: urine to drain out. The following morning, Samuel was dead
17:22
Speaker 1: and the followers burned the body because Rock said that
17:25
Speaker 1: it would attract wild animals. Giselle would later tell a
17:29
Speaker 1: different story of what happened the morning after the party.
17:32
Speaker 1: She said that the boy's face was bruised the following morning,
17:35
Speaker 1: but there was nothing else wrong with him. Rock decided
17:39
Speaker 1: that Samuel needed to be circumcised, likely stemming from his
17:42
Speaker 1: obsession with performing surgery. He used the alcohol to sterilize
17:47
Speaker 1: the razor, but he also made the boy ingest some
17:50
Speaker 1: of it to act as an anesthetic, which is likely
17:52
Speaker 1: what killed the child. When Maurice was told about the
17:56
Speaker 1: death of her son, it's said that she was so
17:58
Speaker 1: thoroughly brainwashed that she shrugged it off and continued with
18:01
Speaker 1: her work. Months later, Rock would hold a trial for
18:05
Speaker 1: Guy with all of the cult members serving as judge, prosecution, defense,
18:09
Speaker 1: and jury. They initially found Guy not guilty due to
18:13
Speaker 1: mental illness, but Rock overruled the decision and ordered the
18:16
Speaker 1: man be castrated. Eventually, Rock convinced Guy that the procedure
18:20
Speaker 1: would be good for him and got him to sign
18:22
Speaker 1: an agreement to be castrated. Rock performed the surgery himself
18:27
Speaker 1: and Guy actually recovered. That didn't seem to be enough
18:31
Speaker 1: of a punishment for Rock, though. From that point on,
18:34
Speaker 1: he would continue to beat Guy and is said to
18:36
Speaker 1: have attempted to kill him without success. Then he would
18:40
Speaker 1: order his followers to stab him in the chest, then
18:42
Speaker 1: call them off at the last minute as a form
18:45
Speaker 1: of psychological torture. That caused Guy to flee the camp
18:49
Speaker 1: and after arriving in a nearby town, he told police
18:52
Speaker 1: about the death of Samuel. The police underwent a month-long investigation,
18:57
Speaker 1: and on December 10th, 1981, they stormed the camp and
19:00
Speaker 1: arrested Rock, Samuel's parents, and a number of other cult members.
19:05
Speaker 1: Investigators had learned about the castration of Guy and that
19:08
Speaker 1: it had happened after a vote was taken by the
19:10
Speaker 1: so-called jury in his trial. Then they learned that one
19:14
Speaker 1: of the people who had been on that jury was
19:16
Speaker 1: 12-year-old Rock Jr. He had voted in favor of castration.
19:22
Speaker 1: When investigators searched the camp, they found the charred remains
19:25
Speaker 1: of Samuel and delivered him to the coroner for an autopsy.
19:30
Speaker 1: The coroner determined that Samuel's death was non-accidental and seven
19:34
Speaker 1: people were initially charged with various crimes. Rock, Guy, Jacques, Maurice,
19:39
Speaker 1: and Gabriel were charged in some way with the involvement
19:42
Speaker 1: of Samuel's death. Another member named Claude was charged with
19:46
Speaker 1: obstruction for burning the body, and Solange was charged with
19:50
Speaker 1: child neglect. With their leader being held without bail, the
19:54
Speaker 1: remaining cult members left the camp and found places closer
19:57
Speaker 1: to the prison, but the authorities used their children as
20:00
Speaker 1: leverage to split them up. The Canadian authorities removed seven
20:04
Speaker 1: children from the camp and told all of the parents
20:07
Speaker 1: that they could either leave the cult and regain custody
20:10
Speaker 1: of their children, or the kids would be placed into
20:12
Speaker 1: the foster care system. Each of the various parents found
20:16
Speaker 1: their own apartments and agreed to regular visits from child services.
20:21
Speaker 1: But just because they were living separately didn't mean they
20:23
Speaker 1: had lost their faith. Three and a half months after
20:27
Speaker 1: the raid, all of the children were returned to their parents.
20:31
Speaker 1: In September of 1982, all of the defendants were found
20:35
Speaker 1: guilty of various crimes. Jacques and Claude were sentenced to
20:39
Speaker 1: six months in jail and three years of probation for
20:42
Speaker 1: child abandonment. Maurice and Solange were given three years of
20:46
Speaker 1: probation for child neglect. Gabrielle was sentenced to nine months
20:50
Speaker 1: in jail and three years probation for criminal negligence in
20:53
Speaker 1: the death of Samuel and causing bodily harm to Guy.
20:58
Speaker 1: Rock was sentenced to two years in prison plus three
21:00
Speaker 1: years probation for criminal negligence and causing bodily harm. Guy
21:05
Speaker 1: was found not guilty due to mental illness and sent
21:08
Speaker 1: to a psychiatric facility in Quebec City. Authorities were hoping
21:13
Speaker 1: that having Rock behind bars would cause the cult to
21:15
Speaker 1: fall apart, but they vastly underestimated the man who called
21:19
Speaker 1: himself Moses. While awaiting trial, he had already impregnated three
21:24
Speaker 1: of his followers during conjugal visits. Giselle was in charge
21:28
Speaker 1: of the flock while Rock was away. He would call
21:31
Speaker 1: her twice a week to remind her of her duties
21:33
Speaker 1: and she would tell him when any of the sheep
21:35
Speaker 1: were beginning to wander. He would instruct her to have
21:38
Speaker 1: that person at her house at a specific time and
21:41
Speaker 1: he would call and talk to them for up to
21:43
Speaker 1: an hour. Once the call was over, the follower would
21:46
Speaker 1: be back on the path that Rock wanted for them.
21:50
Speaker 1: He was released in February of 1984 and lived with
21:53
Speaker 1: Giselle at her apartment. He immediately started talking about moving
21:57
Speaker 1: back out to the camp, but the members of the
21:59
Speaker 1: group had gotten used to simple luxuries like running water
22:02
Speaker 1: and heat. It also would have been a lot of
22:05
Speaker 1: work to rebuild since authorities had burned down all of
22:08
Speaker 1: the structures at the site. Giselle ended up convincing Rock
22:12
Speaker 1: that they should find a big farm to move to.
22:15
Speaker 1: He liked that idea because he decided he wanted to
22:17
Speaker 1: get out of Quebec in order to be away from authorities,
22:21
Speaker 1: particularly probation monitoring. Part of their probation included not all
22:26
Speaker 1: living together, something Rock was not about to comply with.
22:30
Speaker 1: He promised his followers that he was going to quit
22:32
Speaker 1: drinking and there would be no more violence. Then he
22:35
Speaker 1: and Jacques got into their truck and set out to
22:38
Speaker 1: find their new promised land. It didn't take Rock long
22:42
Speaker 1: to find the perfect place. Well, according to him. It
22:45
Speaker 1: was 200 acres or 80 hectares of wooded area in Ontario,
22:49
Speaker 1: near the Burnt River with nothing built on it. Rock
22:53
Speaker 1: quickly purchased the land, and when he told Giselle about it,
22:56
Speaker 1: she was disappointed at the idea of starting all over
22:59
Speaker 1: like they had with the camp. This time, though, Rock's
23:02
Speaker 1: planning worked out better than before. They cut down trees
23:06
Speaker 1: and built a sawmill. They built a simple A-frame cabin first,
23:09
Speaker 1: then built a large two-story house with a kitchen. They
23:13
Speaker 1: built a smokehouse, a bakery, and dug a root cellar
23:16
Speaker 1: into the side of a hill. After five months, the
23:20
Speaker 1: property was set up and the group began taking on
23:22
Speaker 1: their roles, keeping everything working. Jacques and Maurice were forbidden
23:27
Speaker 1: to sleep with each other because it was a threat
23:29
Speaker 1: to Rock's status as the leader and father figure. Eventually,
23:33
Speaker 1: Maurice was forced to sleep in a hut away from
23:36
Speaker 1: the rest of the group with her children. This is
23:39
Speaker 1: where I have a hard time understanding how some people
23:42
Speaker 1: can stay in a cult. I get that people can
23:44
Speaker 1: be brainwashed and their own insecurities used against them, and
23:48
Speaker 1: it's a slow process over a long period of time.
23:51
Speaker 1: But to be able to be convinced that your spouse
23:54
Speaker 1: and your children are somehow bad people who were a
23:56
Speaker 1: danger to you and the other members of the cult
23:59
Speaker 1: are just wild. One thing that made the lives of
24:02
Speaker 1: the cult members harder was that the local government of
24:04
Speaker 1: their new compound refused to provide them with welfare. Because
24:09
Speaker 1: of that, Rock declared that the infidels were trying to
24:12
Speaker 1: destroy God's people and that they would have to simply
24:14
Speaker 1: help themselves to anything they needed. The nearby town became
24:18
Speaker 1: the setting for a campaign of shoplifting to supply the
24:21
Speaker 1: compound with food, toiletries, tools, building supplies, and water. The
24:28
Speaker 1: members would wear long overcoats with large pockets sewn inside
24:32
Speaker 1: and steal anything they could. Eventually, a number of the
24:36
Speaker 1: followers were caught and arrested, but the only punishment they
24:39
Speaker 1: received was being banned from the town they had been
24:41
Speaker 1: in at the time. They became desperate for money, especially
24:45
Speaker 1: because the soil on their property turned out to be
24:48
Speaker 1: too poor to be able to grow anything. Rock eventually
24:51
Speaker 1: developed a scheme where he and some other followers would
24:54
Speaker 1: steal fruit from other farms and then sell it on
24:57
Speaker 1: the side of the road. They used the money from
25:00
Speaker 1: that to finish supplying their bakery with equipment and began
25:03
Speaker 1: selling bread door-to-door in nearby towns. There was never quite
25:08
Speaker 1: enough for everyone to eat, but the situation seemed tolerable
25:12
Speaker 1: and Rock spent most of his energy working on new
25:14
Speaker 1: ways to make money. Then he started drinking again. After
25:19
Speaker 1: the group moved to their new property, officials from a
25:22
Speaker 1: nearby town notified child services of the commune, including several
25:26
Speaker 1: children and pregnant women. When the agent arrived at the property,
25:30
Speaker 1: it was unconventional, but they weren't breaking any laws and
25:33
Speaker 1: it actually seemed like a nice place to raise children.
25:37
Speaker 1: Based on the descriptions, it would have been many people's
25:40
Speaker 1: dream scenario. You know, beside it being a cult. They
25:44
Speaker 1: kept an eye on the group and noticed that their
25:46
Speaker 1: food was scarce, so they helped provide them with food
25:49
Speaker 1: and money to get winter clothing. They also gave them
25:52
Speaker 1: a two-way radio in case of emergencies. Well, on January 26th, 1985,
25:59
Speaker 1: one of those emergencies occurred. Gabrielle wrapped her five-month-old baby
26:03
Speaker 1: in a blanket and placed him in a wheelbarrow outside.
26:07
Speaker 1: He was there for about an hour and 15 minutes
26:10
Speaker 1: before she returned. It had been negative 10 degrees Celsius
26:14
Speaker 1: or 14 degrees Fahrenheit. It shouldn't be surprising that the
26:18
Speaker 1: baby was blue and had stopped breathing. They used the
26:22
Speaker 1: radio to call for an ambulance, but the baby was
26:25
Speaker 1: pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. For some reason,
26:29
Speaker 1: the coroner reported that the child had died from sudden
26:32
Speaker 1: infant death syndrome, despite the baby having clearly died of exposure.
26:37
Speaker 1: Gabrielle would later say that Rock hated the child because
26:39
Speaker 1: he had a slight deformity on one eyelid and would
26:42
Speaker 1: regularly beat him. She claimed she left him outside as
26:46
Speaker 1: an act of mercy. Because of the cause of death, though,
26:50
Speaker 1: nobody was arrested. The social worker did continue keeping an
26:54
Speaker 1: eye on the compound, trying to find anything to use
26:57
Speaker 1: to break up the cult and save the children that
26:59
Speaker 1: were there. That would come almost a year later when
27:02
Speaker 1: Maurice was allowed to leave the compound. Rock told her
27:06
Speaker 1: she could leave with two of her children, Giselle, who
27:09
Speaker 1: was two years old, and Thomas, who had been born
27:11
Speaker 1: a few months prior. But her oldest child, Miriam, had
27:15
Speaker 1: to stay behind so she could become his next wife.
27:18
Speaker 1: The girl would have been about nine years old at
27:20
Speaker 1: the time. Maurice took the opportunity to leave, but contacted
27:25
Speaker 1: the authorities to seek help getting Miriam. It took months
27:28
Speaker 1: for the cult experts to get the brainwashed woman to
27:31
Speaker 1: a state where she could be useful. When Maurice was
27:34
Speaker 1: finally able to think clearly, she told social workers about
27:38
Speaker 1: how things were inside the compound. She told them how
27:42
Speaker 1: Rock would hit everyone with the blunt side of an axe,
27:45
Speaker 1: including the children. He performed surgeries on followers with improper
27:50
Speaker 1: tools and no anesthesia. He also separated the children into
27:54
Speaker 1: two classes, the ones who were fathered by him, who
27:57
Speaker 1: were treated well, and the ones who weren't his offspring,
28:01
Speaker 1: who were treated as slaves. He used some of the
28:04
Speaker 1: children for sex games, and of course, he was holding
28:07
Speaker 1: her daughter to become his next wife. On December 6th, 1985,
28:12
Speaker 1: the police raided the property with warrants to take every
28:15
Speaker 1: child into custody. Rock didn't resist. He was a calculated
28:20
Speaker 1: person and believed that handing over the children willingly might
28:23
Speaker 1: get the authorities off his back. He told his wives
28:26
Speaker 1: to wash and dress the children and all the women
28:29
Speaker 1: complied without complaint. Having their children taken away seemed like
28:33
Speaker 1: an ordinary event to them. Social workers took pictures of
28:37
Speaker 1: each child with their mother so they could be organized
28:40
Speaker 1: before taking them into town and placing them in foster homes.
28:44
Speaker 1: The women were told that they could get their children
28:46
Speaker 1: back if they agreed to leave the cult, but not
28:48
Speaker 1: a single mother agreed. They just stood there and watched
28:51
Speaker 1: their children disappear onto a bus. As the children's time
28:56
Speaker 1: in their foster homes went on, the horrors of their
28:59
Speaker 1: previous lives became more and more apparent. Some children's teeth
29:03
Speaker 1: were black and yellow. One boy was terrified of all
29:07
Speaker 1: bearded men. An infant girl would rock back and forth, chanting.
29:12
Speaker 1: As they got more comfortable, they would tell their foster
29:14
Speaker 1: family stories about how they would be deprived of sleep
29:18
Speaker 1: with a loud bell ringing throughout the night or the
29:20
Speaker 1: strange rituals involving chanting and upside-down crosses. Some people could
29:26
Speaker 1: try to explain it away as the children making up stories,
29:29
Speaker 1: but the families would find out that multiple children had
29:32
Speaker 1: said the exact same things and then the stories would
29:34
Speaker 1: be confirmed by Maurice. Then a number of the children
29:38
Speaker 1: described being involved in sex acts with Rock. One girl
29:42
Speaker 1: described pulling on his penis until white stuff came out.
29:46
Speaker 1: Then there was the physical abuse. Before Samuel died, Rock
29:50
Speaker 1: had put his foot on the boy's head and told him, quote,
29:53
Speaker 1: the more you cry, the more I'll crush your head.
29:57
Speaker 1: He threw children against walls and trees. He would sometimes
30:01
Speaker 1: hold two babies by their ankles over a fire and
30:04
Speaker 1: threaten to throw one in, making each mother beg for
30:07
Speaker 1: the life of their child. What should have been an
30:10
Speaker 1: open and shut case of child abuse turned out to
30:12
Speaker 1: be anything but. An independent group was brought in to
30:16
Speaker 1: evaluate the situation and they had determined that the children
30:19
Speaker 1: should be returned to the compound immediately. They claimed that,
30:23
Speaker 1: though their lifestyle was unconventional, the group was being discriminated
30:27
Speaker 1: against because they were French-speaking in an increasingly English-speaking world.
30:33
Speaker 1: That led to court hearings, which were initially attended by
30:36
Speaker 1: Rock and his wives, but they ended up leaving and
30:38
Speaker 1: not complying with the judge's instructions. Fortunately, the judge was
30:43
Speaker 1: not blind to what was really going on at the
30:45
Speaker 1: compound and didn't agree with the independent assessment in any way. So,
30:50
Speaker 1: though it took longer than it should have, it was
30:53
Speaker 1: ruled that the children would stay with their foster families
30:56
Speaker 1: and be formally adopted if those families wanted. By then,
31:00
Speaker 1: Rock had fathered four more children, who were taken away
31:03
Speaker 1: immediately after they were born. Despite all that, the district
31:07
Speaker 1: attorney said there wasn't enough evidence to press charges for
31:10
Speaker 1: any crimes and Rock was left in power. After having
31:14
Speaker 1: his children taken away, Rock's violence increased. He would get
31:18
Speaker 1: drunk and carry out unspeakable acts on his followers. He
31:22
Speaker 1: would whip them with a belt and break their bones
31:24
Speaker 1: with a hammer. He would pull out their teeth. Once,
31:27
Speaker 1: Claude angered Rock somehow, and he was ordered to put
31:30
Speaker 1: a band around his testicles. By the next morning, they
31:33
Speaker 1: were swollen to the size of an orange and had
31:35
Speaker 1: turned blue and purple. Not long after, one of his
31:39
Speaker 1: testicles got infected, so Rock had his followers hold Claude
31:43
Speaker 1: down and he cut the infected testicle out before cauterizing
31:46
Speaker 1: the incision with a piece of red-hot iron. But he
31:49
Speaker 1: was still angry at Claude, so he held a vote
31:51
Speaker 1: on whether or not they should stone him to death.
31:54
Speaker 1: The members voted against it, which threw Rock into a
31:57
Speaker 1: rage and he threatened to open Claude's stomach with an
32:00
Speaker 1: acetylene torch. But Claude managed to get free and hid
32:03
Speaker 1: in the forest until the cult leader sobered up. In
32:07
Speaker 1: February of 1987, Rock stabbed Giselle in the leg and
32:11
Speaker 1: wouldn't let her get treatment. She wrapped a towel around
32:15
Speaker 1: it and it ended up swelling up to the size
32:17
Speaker 1: of a football. Rock attempted to perform surgery by cutting
32:21
Speaker 1: open the wound and pouring boiling water over it. When
32:24
Speaker 1: the swelling didn't go down after a few weeks, he
32:27
Speaker 1: mixed salt and olive oil and rubbed it into the wound.
32:30
Speaker 1: Then he put spruce gum over the wound and covered
32:33
Speaker 1: it with a bandage. Giselle limped around for a month,
32:37
Speaker 1: making sure to get all of her chores done to
32:39
Speaker 1: not make Rock angry, and then when he left for
32:41
Speaker 1: a trip to Toronto, she hitchhiked to a woman's shelter.
32:45
Speaker 1: She was so brainwashed by Rock that she didn't know
32:48
Speaker 1: how to live outside of the group, so she eventually
32:50
Speaker 1: went back. She never sought treatment at a hospital because
32:54
Speaker 1: she didn't want to have to explain how she had
32:56
Speaker 1: gotten the wound, but it did eventually heal. The violence
33:00
Speaker 1: continued to escalate. It would later be revealed that Rock
33:04
Speaker 1: had taken a torch to Nicole's stomach the day she
33:06
Speaker 1: gave birth to one of his children. He broke Jacques'
33:10
Speaker 1: ribs with a club. He kicked Nicole in the stomach
33:13
Speaker 1: when she was three months pregnant, causing her to lose
33:16
Speaker 1: the baby. He broke Giselle's ribs by kicking her with
33:19
Speaker 1: a steel-toed boot. He shot Nicole in the right shoulder.
33:23
Speaker 1: He bent all of Claude's toes back until they were broken.
33:27
Speaker 1: He crushed Gabrielle's right hand in a vice. He ordered
33:31
Speaker 1: Jacques to cut off one of Gabrielle's fingers with a
33:33
Speaker 1: pair of wire cutters. He injected Gabrielle in the back
33:37
Speaker 1: with an unknown solution and then broke the needle off,
33:40
Speaker 1: leaving it in her back. He fired a. 22 caliber
33:43
Speaker 1: bullet at Claude, grazing his scalp. He beat their workhorse
33:47
Speaker 1: to death with chains. He slammed Solange on the floor
33:51
Speaker 1: and punched her in the face, breaking her cheekbone. He
33:55
Speaker 1: ordered one of the women to break Claude's leg with
33:57
Speaker 1: a sledgehammer, and he cut his arm open with a
34:00
Speaker 1: piece of broken glass. The beginning of the end of
34:03
Speaker 1: The Ant Hill Kids started with Solange complaining of stomach pains.
34:08
Speaker 1: Rock had been convinced that it was her liver and
34:10
Speaker 1: that she would need an operation. They took her to
34:14
Speaker 1: the bakery, and Rock performed the operation on her there. First,
34:17
Speaker 1: he gave her an enema with a mixture of molasses, oil,
34:21
Speaker 1: and water. Then he started pushing and even punching on
34:24
Speaker 1: her stomach. He then placed a tube down her throat,
34:27
Speaker 1: the same one he'd used for the enema, and started
34:30
Speaker 1: blowing air into her stomach. It's unclear why. Then he
34:35
Speaker 1: cut Solange open, jammed his fingers into the opening, and
34:38
Speaker 1: pulled something out. Some said it looked like a chunk
34:41
Speaker 1: of fat, and others said it looked like a piece
34:43
Speaker 1: of intestine. Either way, he pulled the piece apart and
34:47
Speaker 1: stuck some of it back in the hole in her stomach.
34:50
Speaker 1: Then he had someone sew her up. He claimed that
34:53
Speaker 1: after that brilliant intervention, she would be fine. This may
34:57
Speaker 1: not come as a shock to anyone, but she wasn't fine.
35:01
Speaker 1: She died the next morning. From that point, Rock really
35:04
Speaker 1: began his final descent into madness. At first, he was
35:08
Speaker 1: so distraught that he told his followers that he wanted
35:10
Speaker 1: to die. The first attempt was to have him sit
35:13
Speaker 1: in a van and direct the exhaust into the vehicle.
35:17
Speaker 1: That didn't kill him, so Rock took more than 200 Tylenol,
35:20
Speaker 1: but that didn't kill him either. They obviously had the
35:24
Speaker 1: means to easily kill him, and seems as though Rock
35:27
Speaker 1: only wanted to seem like he was ready to end
35:29
Speaker 1: it all. He was not ready to relinquish his control,
35:33
Speaker 1: which he would then use to horrific ends. The group
35:36
Speaker 1: had built a coffin for Solange and buried her body,
35:39
Speaker 1: but Rock ordered her to be exhumed. First, he cut
35:43
Speaker 1: her open, removed some of her organs and a rib,
35:46
Speaker 1: which he turned into a necklace. Then he had Jacques
35:49
Speaker 1: drill a hole in her forehead so Rock could ejaculate
35:52
Speaker 1: into her brain, something he believed would bring her back
35:55
Speaker 1: to life. After that was complete, he started talking about
35:59
Speaker 1: giving some of the members lobotomies. Fortunately, that never happened,
36:04
Speaker 1: but it created a situation where Giselle started questioning her
36:07
Speaker 1: husband's almighty power. She started leaving the compound for periods
36:11
Speaker 1: of time and living with her parents. That angered Rock,
36:15
Speaker 1: but without Giselle there, he began taking his rage out
36:18
Speaker 1: on Gabrielle. After her last birth, she had a prolapsed uterus,
36:23
Speaker 1: which was causing her pain as she was forced to
36:25
Speaker 1: work in a field-picking cabbage. Tired of hearing her complaints,
36:29
Speaker 1: one night Rock forced her to lie on a table
36:31
Speaker 1: and he attempted to forcibly push and punch her uterus
36:35
Speaker 1: back into her vagina. Then he used a cone-shaped piece
36:38
Speaker 1: of wood like a plug, secured in place with a harness.
36:43
Speaker 1: The following day, when she was ordered into the fields
36:45
Speaker 1: for work, she removed the device and ran to the
36:48
Speaker 1: neighbor's house. They tried to help her medically, but didn't
36:51
Speaker 1: take her to the hospital and didn't alert the authorities.
36:55
Speaker 1: When she returned to the compound, Rock was so mad
36:58
Speaker 1: he ripped out eight of her teeth for having such
37:00
Speaker 1: a big mouth. At some point after that, Rock attacked
37:04
Speaker 1: Gabrielle with a knife and cut two of her fingers.
37:08
Speaker 1: The woman escaped again and went to a women's shelter.
37:11
Speaker 1: Over the course of three weeks, she received medical treatment
37:14
Speaker 1: for her hand and her forcefully removed teeth. When she
37:18
Speaker 1: was asked why she didn't leave Rock, she said that
37:21
Speaker 1: he was an alcoholic, but she believed she could fix him.
37:25
Speaker 1: When she returned to the compound, Rock ripped off the
37:27
Speaker 1: cast on her hand and pulled out the wires that
37:30
Speaker 1: had been put there to stabilize her fingers. On May 26th, 1989,
37:36
Speaker 1: Rock asked Gabrielle to put her hand on a table,
37:39
Speaker 1: and he stabbed a knife through it and into the table.
37:43
Speaker 1: Gabrielle was effectively stuck in place, and that's when Rock
37:46
Speaker 1: pulled out another knife and began cutting off her arm
37:49
Speaker 1: between the elbow and the shoulder. After having removed a
37:53
Speaker 1: strip of flesh around the bone, he pulled the knife
37:55
Speaker 1: out of her hand and led her to a stump.
37:58
Speaker 1: He had her lay her arm on the stump and
38:00
Speaker 1: used a meat cleaver to cut the bone. The stump
38:04
Speaker 1: left on Gabrielle was dipped in a saline solution and
38:07
Speaker 1: Chantal stitched up the end. Despite all that happening without
38:11
Speaker 1: any anesthesia, Gabrielle didn't pass out and she never considered
38:15
Speaker 1: leaving ROC. Months later, Rock declared that Gabrielle's wound was
38:20
Speaker 1: not healing properly, so he used scissors to make cuts
38:23
Speaker 1: in the stump and then cut a small chunk of
38:25
Speaker 1: flesh from her right breast, claiming it would redirect the
38:28
Speaker 1: infection somewhere else. Yeah, that's not how that works. Like,
38:32
Speaker 1: somehow your body can only have one infection at a time.
38:36
Speaker 1: She'd just have two infections. Then he hit Gabrielle on
38:40
Speaker 1: the head with the blunt end of an axe, leaving
38:42
Speaker 1: her with a large gash in her head. The woman
38:45
Speaker 1: ran into the woods and slept on the ground for
38:47
Speaker 1: two days, and when she returned to the house, Rock
38:50
Speaker 1: had not sobered up. He then used a red-hot piece
38:53
Speaker 1: of driveshaft to cauterize the end of her stump. That
38:57
Speaker 1: was finally enough to snap Gabrielle out of her brainwashed state,
39:01
Speaker 1: and she fled the compound and went to the hospital.
39:04
Speaker 1: She tried to claim that she had lost her arm
39:06
Speaker 1: in an accident, but it was clear she was lying,
39:09
Speaker 1: so the doctors called the police. On August 19, 1989,
39:14
Speaker 1: the authorities executed a search warrant for the compound but
39:17
Speaker 1: found the property abandoned. They collected bloody tissues and a
39:21
Speaker 1: number of sharp tools with bloodstains on them. But the
39:25
Speaker 1: Ant Hill kids had not left for good, though it
39:27
Speaker 1: looked like they knew their time was coming to an end.
39:30
Speaker 1: so they took off to avoid arrest, most of them
39:32
Speaker 1: had actually just gone to Quebec to deliver bread. Some
39:36
Speaker 1: of the members had fled the group, but the rest
39:38
Speaker 1: had no idea the police were coming for them and
39:41
Speaker 1: would soon return to the compound. Obviously, when they returned,
39:45
Speaker 1: they could tell that the place had been searched, but
39:47
Speaker 1: Rock still didn't leave. He played a game of cat
39:50
Speaker 1: and mouse, remaining nearby but always being able to effectively
39:53
Speaker 1: hide whenever the authorities came sniffing. That finally came to
39:57
Speaker 1: an end on October 6th when Rock and the final
39:59
Speaker 1: members of the cult were located and arrested. After extensive
40:04
Speaker 1: searches of the entire property where Rock had built his compound,
40:07
Speaker 1: Solange's remains were located and Rock was charged with her
40:11
Speaker 1: murder on top of being charged with the mutilation of Gabrielle.
40:15
Speaker 1: The fact that Rock had a necklace with one of
40:17
Speaker 1: Solange's rib bones when he was arrested did not help
40:20
Speaker 1: his case. Rock pleaded guilty to assault and the mutilation
40:24
Speaker 1: of Gabrielle and was sentenced to 12 years in prison.
40:28
Speaker 1: Others involved also pleaded guilty and were given lesser sentences.
40:32
Speaker 1: When he was charged with the first-degree murder of Solange Boilat,
40:36
Speaker 1: he pleaded not guilty and was prepared to fight it.
40:39
Speaker 1: But eventually the prosecutor realized there wasn't enough evidence to
40:42
Speaker 1: suggest the murder was premeditated and they made a deal
40:46
Speaker 1: for Rock to plead guilty to second-degree murder and be
40:48
Speaker 1: sentenced to life in prison in exchange for not being
40:51
Speaker 1: charged with any other crimes. What did he think the
40:55
Speaker 1: authorities would find, I wonder? Nobody else in the cult
40:58
Speaker 1: was charged in the murder. Three women, Francine Laflamme, Chantal Labrie,
41:05
Speaker 1: and Nicole Ruel, remained loyal to Rock and all had
41:08
Speaker 1: more of his children after he was imprisoned through conjugal visits.
41:12
Speaker 1: Over the years, it's estimated that Rock fathered 23 children,
41:16
Speaker 1: almost all of whom ended up in foster care. Well,
41:19
Speaker 1: the ones who lived. On February 26, 2011, Rock Theriault
41:25
Speaker 1: was stabbed to death by his cellmate, Matthew McDonald. It's
41:29
Speaker 1: said that Rock never stopped talking about the things he
41:31
Speaker 1: did to his cult members, and his cellmate was tired
41:34
Speaker 1: of hearing it. He pleaded guilty to murder, but since
41:37
Speaker 1: he was already serving a life sentence for murder, the
41:40
Speaker 1: second life sentence didn't seem to matter much. There's no
41:44
Speaker 1: doubt that Rock was a monster, and in the end,
41:46
Speaker 1: it took another monster to finally put a stop to
41:49
Speaker 1: him negatively affecting other people. Thanks again, and be safe.