Latest / Scary Horror Stories / She Climbed an Impossible Couloir - Found Alive, Stakes Unexplained
Transcript
- 0:03Speaker 1: At two in the afternoon on March 14th, 2019, a
- 0:07Speaker 1: septic contractor named Howard Crawford stood at the edge of
- 0:11Speaker 1: a leach field on a high desert property and looked
- 0:13Speaker 1: down 60 feet to something that should not have been there,
- 0:16Speaker 1: a tent. Orange and gray, perfectly staked, perfectly intact, on
- 0:22Speaker 1: a limestone bench at 8,400 feet. No trail led to it.
- 0:26Speaker 1: No footprints in the snow. The tent was simply there,
- 0:30Speaker 1: as if it had arrived from the air. That contradiction
- 0:33Speaker 1: is where this story begins. There is something about this
- 0:36Speaker 1: case that resisted easy explanation from the first moment search
- 0:40Speaker 1: and rescue coordinators heard it. Not because something sinister happened
- 0:43Speaker 1: on Duval Bench, but because the explanation that eventually emerged
- 0:48Speaker 1: required a person to do something that most trained mountaineers
- 0:51Speaker 1: would call impossible without the right equipment. Angela Wagner had
- 0:56Speaker 1: no crampons, she had no ice axe, and the snow-loaded
- 0:59Speaker 1: kolor separating Duval Bench from the rest of Akra Mesa
- 1:03Speaker 1: Wilderness had been described by the county's lead search coordinator
- 1:06Speaker 1: as impassable under consolidated snow. She made it anyway, and
- 1:10Speaker 1: the full story of how she got there, how six
- 1:13Speaker 1: days passed before anyone found her, and what two aluminum
- 1:16Speaker 1: tent stakes found at her side still cannot explain, that
- 1:20Speaker 1: is what we are here to examine. Angela Wagner was
- 1:23Speaker 1: 26 years old when she signed the permit register at 7.14
- 1:27Speaker 1: in the morning. On March 8th, 2019, her handwriting was neat.
- 1:31Speaker 1: Her declared route was the Bench Loop, a 22-mile circuit
- 1:35Speaker 1: through Okra Mesa wilderness that stays well below the high
- 1:38Speaker 1: couloirs and returns to the trailhead by nightfall the following day.
- 1:43Speaker 1: She had grown up east of the Cascades, in a
- 1:45Speaker 1: high desert where the land teaches a particular kind of patience.
- 1:49Speaker 1: You read terrain the way other people read a room
- 1:52Speaker 1: You know which drainage floods after snowmelt, which rock face
- 1:56Speaker 1: catches afternoon warmth, where the wind funnels and where it stops.
- 2:00Speaker 1: That upbringing was not incidental. It was the whole foundation
- 2:03Speaker 1: of who Angela had become by her mid-twenties. Twenty-two months
- 2:07Speaker 1: before that March morning, she had completed her wilderness first
- 2:11Speaker 1: responder certification. The WFR is not a weekend course. It
- 2:15Speaker 1: is 80-plus hours of hands-on training designed for one specific scenario.
- 2:20Speaker 1: Something goes wrong far from help and you are the
- 2:23Speaker 1: only person who can manage it. Angela had chosen to
- 2:25Speaker 1: take that training. She had chosen to carry a minus-20-degree
- 2:30Speaker 1: sleeping bag on a March overnighter in high desert country.
- 2:33Speaker 1: She had chosen to pack a four-season tent, a bivy sack,
- 2:37Speaker 1: a space blanket, a lighter, a whistle, and a full
- 2:40Speaker 1: first aid kit, alongside a week's worth of food. This
- 2:43Speaker 1: was not a reckless person. Back in Merritt Flats, Angela
- 2:47Speaker 1: shared an apartment with Diane Faber, a nursing student. They
- 2:50Speaker 1: had lived together for 14 months. In that time, Diane
- 2:54Speaker 1: had learned one thing about Angela with complete certainty. She
- 2:58Speaker 1: fed her leopard gecko, Pistachio, on a precise schedule. Not approximately, precisely.
- 3:04Speaker 1: In 14 months, Diane had never once seen that habit broken.
- 3:08Speaker 1: On the night of March 10, pistachios foods sat untouched
- 3:12Speaker 1: for the second consecutive meal. Diane Faber called the county dispatch.
- 3:16Speaker 1: That call set in motion six days of searching across
- 3:19Speaker 1: a wilderness area that had just received four inches of
- 3:23Speaker 1: fresh snow across a core that had been loading since February.
- 3:27Speaker 1: Across a bench so remote that the only person who
- 3:29Speaker 1: spotted the tent was a septic contractor who happened to
- 3:33Speaker 1: look down from the right angle on the right morning.
- 3:35Speaker 1: Before any of that can be understood, There is one
- 3:38Speaker 1: detail that changes how everything else reads. Angela Wagner did
- 3:42Speaker 1: not stay on the bench loop. She never intended to
- 3:45Speaker 1: stay on it. Past mile four. At mile four, the
- 3:49Speaker 1: bench loop crosses a drainage channel on the morning of
- 3:52Speaker 1: March 8th. That channel was running with snowmelt. Angela Wagner
- 3:56Speaker 1: stopped at the crossing, looked up, and made a decision
- 3:59Speaker 1: that was not on any map. Thirty yards west of
- 4:02Speaker 1: the trail, she tucked a sealed dry bag into the rocks.
- 4:05Speaker 1: Inside it, Four days of food, carefully portioned, carefully closed.
- 4:11Speaker 1: Not thrown there in a hurry. Set down with intention.
- 4:14Speaker 1: Then she turned and looked up at the couloir. The
- 4:17Speaker 1: couloir is a north-facing chute, 40 yards wide, a 38-degree
- 4:22Speaker 1: slope for its lower two-thirds, loaded with consolidated snow since
- 4:26Speaker 1: the second week of February. Nancy Long, the county's search
- 4:29Speaker 1: and rescue coordinator, would later describe it as impassable under
- 4:33Speaker 1: those conditions. Angela had no crampons. She had no ice axe.
- 4:38Speaker 1: What she had was a trekking pole and 26 years
- 4:41Speaker 1: of growing up east of the Cascades. She started climbing.
- 4:45Speaker 1: For roughly four and a half hours, she moved up
- 4:47Speaker 1: that face. Somewhere in the upper third, her left foot
- 4:50Speaker 1: dropped into a void beneath the snow crust. The ankle
- 4:53Speaker 1: rolled hard. She arrested herself with her hands and the pole,
- 4:57Speaker 1: pressed flat against the slope, and did not fall. Then
- 5:00Speaker 1: she crawled. Two and a half hours on hands and knees,
- 5:03Speaker 1: up the remaining pitch, Until the angle eased and the
- 5:06Speaker 1: limestone shelf of Duval Bench opened in front of her,
- 5:09Speaker 1: she made camp with what was in the top lid
- 5:11Speaker 1: of her pack. The four-season tent went up correctly. The
- 5:15Speaker 1: poles seated. The rain fly-tensioned. She drove six aluminum stakes
- 5:19Speaker 1: into the frozen ground and hung her yellow dry bag
- 5:22Speaker 1: from the trekking pole, like a flag angled to catch
- 5:25Speaker 1: the eye of anything passing overhead. Then the storm came.
- 5:29Speaker 1: On the night of March 10th and into the 11th,
- 5:31Speaker 1: A Pacific system dropped four inches of fresh snow on
- 5:34Speaker 1: the upper elevations. The couloir, already loaded, filled in completely.
- 5:38Speaker 1: Every mark Angela had made on that face, every kicked step,
- 5:42Speaker 1: every hand plant, every place where the crust had broken,
- 5:45Speaker 1: was gone. The bench sat above the cloud layer for
- 5:48Speaker 1: most of the next three days, invisible to searchers working
- 5:51Speaker 1: the trail corridor below. On March 11th, Nancy Long put
- 5:55Speaker 1: 12 volunteers on the bench loop. Don Acker worked two
- 5:59Speaker 1: bloodhounds from the trailhead. The dogs tracked steadily to mile
- 6:02Speaker 1: four to the drainage crossing, to the exact spot where
- 6:05Speaker 1: the channel had been running on the 8th. There, the
- 6:07Speaker 1: scent ended. Cold water disperses everything. Long flagged that crossing
- 6:12Speaker 1: as the last confirmed point of Angela's movement and pulled
- 6:15Speaker 1: the team back before dark. Thirty yards to the west,
- 6:19Speaker 1: the dry bag sat in the rocks, untouched. Steve Pardlow
- 6:23Speaker 1: found it the following afternoon, March 12th. He almost walked
- 6:27Speaker 1: past it. The bag was sealed so neatly set so
- 6:31Speaker 1: deliberately into a gap in the rock face that his
- 6:33Speaker 1: first read was that it had been cached there on purpose,
- 6:37Speaker 1: which it had, just not by anyone on his team.
- 6:40Speaker 1: He opened it, found the food, and radioed long. Four
- 6:43Speaker 1: days of provisions. Still good. Positioned thirty yards off the
- 6:47Speaker 1: marked trail in a spot with no signage, no obvious
- 6:50Speaker 1: reason to detour. That detail mattered for a specific reason.
- 6:54Speaker 1: Angela had not fled uphill in a panic. She had stopped, thought,
- 6:59Speaker 1: made a calculated choice about weight versus need, and staged
- 7:03Speaker 1: supplies for a descent she intended to make. She was
- 7:05Speaker 1: planning to come back down. Elaine Bodine found the footprint
- 7:09Speaker 1: on March 13th. One partial impression in a two-square-foot patch
- 7:13Speaker 1: of exposed earth near the base of the Koloire, where
- 7:16Speaker 1: wind had scoured a gap in the snow cover. Heel
- 7:19Speaker 1: and ball of a left foot. A trailrunner tread, size
- 7:22Speaker 1: seven to eight. Angela wore seven and a half. The
- 7:26Speaker 1: print pointed directly uphill, toward the Kolar. Bodine catalogued it
- 7:31Speaker 1: and kept looking. There was no continuation. In every direction
- 7:34Speaker 1: around that patch, the snow was unbroken. One print, pointing up,
- 7:39Speaker 1: surrounded by blank white. Long marked it as inconclusive. The
- 7:43Speaker 1: morning of March 14th, the helicopter was already scheduled. The
- 7:47Speaker 1: plan was an aerial sweep of the upper bench at
- 7:50Speaker 1: first light. Howard Crawford called the county dispatch before the
- 7:53Speaker 1: aircraft left the grounds. Crawford was a septic contractor. He
- 7:57Speaker 1: had been called out to service the drain field on
- 7:59Speaker 1: the Duval family's property, a private parcel abutting the wilderness boundary.
- 8:04Speaker 1: He was working in the leech field, and he looked
- 8:06Speaker 1: down the slope, 60 feet below him, on a flat
- 8:09Speaker 1: limestone shelf he had never paid attention to. There was
- 8:12Speaker 1: an orange and gray shake that was too geometric to
- 8:15Speaker 1: be natural. He called it in. He described it as
- 8:18Speaker 1: a tent. Long redirected the team. The approach took most
- 8:22Speaker 1: of the morning. Long's four-person team came up the south
- 8:25Speaker 1: ridge route, which avoids the couloir entirely, but adds significant
- 8:30Speaker 1: elevation gain. They reached the bench just after noon. The
- 8:33Speaker 1: tent was there, correctly staked, correctly guide, the yellow bag
- 8:38Speaker 1: still hanging from the pole. Long called out before she
- 8:41Speaker 1: unzipped the door, Angela answered. She was inside the sleeping bag, conscious,
- 8:46Speaker 1: moving slowly. Rich Foley, the paramedic, took her temperature within
- 8:51Speaker 1: minutes of entry. 93.1 degrees Fahrenheit. Moderate hypothermia. Her speech
- 8:57Speaker 1: was deliberate. Slightly slurred, but coherent. She knew the date.
- 9:02Speaker 1: She knew where she was. Her left ankle had swollen
- 9:05Speaker 1: to the point where Foley had to cut the gaiter
- 9:07Speaker 1: to get a proper look. Severe sprain of the lateral malleolus.
- 9:11Speaker 1: No fracture. She would recover completely. She had been in
- 9:14Speaker 1: that tent for six days. There is something that takes
- 9:18Speaker 1: a moment to absorb when you read Foley's field notes.
- 9:21Speaker 1: Angela had not simply waited. She had managed. She had
- 9:25Speaker 1: rationed the food she had carried in the top lid,
- 9:28Speaker 1: not the cash which was still down the mountain. Across
- 9:31Speaker 1: six days, keeping her caloric intake functional, without burning through
- 9:35Speaker 1: her supply before rescue became possible. She had melted snow
- 9:39Speaker 1: for water. She had kept the tents sealed against wind
- 9:42Speaker 1: and cold with the discipline of someone who had trained
- 9:45Speaker 1: for exactly... This kind of scenario, the wilderness first responder
- 9:48Speaker 1: certification she had earned 22 months earlier was not a
- 9:51Speaker 1: wall decoration. She had used every principle it taught. But
- 9:55Speaker 1: there was something in Foley's notes that did not fit
- 9:57Speaker 1: the inventory. The tent had eight stakes in the ground.
- 10:00Speaker 1: Angela's gear, manifest. The photo she had sent Diane Faber
- 10:04Speaker 1: before the trip showed six. Angela confirmed she had carried
- 10:08Speaker 1: six and used all six to pitch the tent on
- 10:10Speaker 1: the evening of March 8th. Six stakes. All hers, all
- 10:14Speaker 1: the same brand. The two extra stakes were aluminum, Slightly
- 10:18Speaker 1: different gauge, different manufacturers marking on the shaft. Long pulled them,
- 10:23Speaker 1: and compared them to the kit of every SAR member
- 10:26Speaker 1: who had entered or approached the tent. No match. She
- 10:29Speaker 1: went through the comparison methodically, the way her incident report
- 10:33Speaker 1: describes everything. Methodically, without gap. Nothing matched. The bench is remote.
- 10:39Speaker 1: There are records of prior camping in the area, seasons back.
- 10:42Speaker 1: Long noted that the stakes showed none of the oxidation
- 10:45Speaker 1: or microabration typical of gear left at altitude through a winter.
- 10:48Speaker 1: They were not corroded. They were not battered. They were
- 10:52Speaker 1: placed correctly, tensioning the fly at the two windward corners,
- 10:55Speaker 1: doing exactly the job stakes are supposed to do. Angela
- 10:59Speaker 1: had no explanation. She told Foley and Long that she
- 11:02Speaker 1: had not touched anything outside the tent after pitching it
- 11:05Speaker 1: on March 8th. She had not moved. She had not
- 11:07Speaker 1: been visited. She had seen no one. Long logged the
- 11:11Speaker 1: two stakes as unresolved, She did not speculate in the
- 11:14Speaker 1: incident report. The case was closed as a wilderness rescue.
- 11:18Speaker 1: Picture the bench in the days between March 8th and
- 11:20Speaker 1: March 14th. Flat limestone shelf at 8,400 feet, a north-facing
- 11:25Speaker 1: couloir below, blank after the storm. No trail access from above.
- 11:30Speaker 1: The South Ridge route, long used on the 14th, requires
- 11:33Speaker 1: experience and takes hours. The tent sitting correctly in the wind.
- 11:38Speaker 1: Fly tensioned, stakes doing their job. If someone came up
- 11:42Speaker 1: the South Ridge in the days Angela was stranded, they
- 11:45Speaker 1: would have had to know the bench was there. That
- 11:47Speaker 1: is not nothing. Duval Bench does not appear on the
- 11:50Speaker 1: standard recreational maps for Oshra Mesa Wilderness. It shows on
- 11:53Speaker 1: topographic surveys, but you have to be looking for it.
- 11:56Speaker 1: Whoever placed those stakes, if it was a person, knew
- 11:59Speaker 1: the geography with some specificity. But that line of thinking
- 12:03Speaker 1: runs into a wall almost immediately. Angela heard nothing. She
- 12:06Speaker 1: was inside a four-season tent, in cold, still air. conditions
- 12:11Speaker 1: that carry sound. She slept lightly, the way anyone sleeps
- 12:14Speaker 1: when they are injured and alone in a wilderness camp.
- 12:17Speaker 1: She reported no voices, no footsteps, no disturbance of any
- 12:21Speaker 1: kind in six nights. The tent door was undisturbed each morning.
- 12:25Speaker 1: The simpler picture is this. Those stakes were already there.
- 12:29Speaker 1: A previous camper had left them, sunk into the frozen ground,
- 12:33Speaker 1: and when Angela pitched her tent, she drove her own
- 12:35Speaker 1: stakes without noticing two aluminum shafts Already seated at the
- 12:40Speaker 1: windward corners, she used those corners. The stakes were there.
- 12:44Speaker 1: She did not place them, but she did not need to.
- 12:47Speaker 1: That version has a problem. Angela is a wilderness first
- 12:50Speaker 1: responder who examines her pitch site before setting up camp.
- 12:54Speaker 1: She is the kind of person who carries a minus.
- 12:57Speaker 1: 20 sleeping bag on a march overnight and sends her
- 13:00Speaker 1: gear manifest to her roommate before she leaves. Long spent
- 13:04Speaker 1: time with that objection in her notes. She did not
- 13:07Speaker 1: dismiss it. She left it open. There is a third reading,
- 13:10Speaker 1: and it is the one that recontextualizes the single footprint
- 13:13Speaker 1: Elaine Bodine found on March 13th. One partial impression in
- 13:17Speaker 1: a two-square-foot patch of exposed earth, left foot pointing uphill.
- 13:22Speaker 1: Catalogued as inconclusive because there was no continuation in the snow.
- 13:27Speaker 1: After the rescue, that print was not re-examined for a
- 13:30Speaker 1: new reason. It was re-examined for the obvious one. Angela's
- 13:34Speaker 1: left ankle was the injured one. She had not walked
- 13:37Speaker 1: down from the bench and back up. but the print
- 13:40Speaker 1: pointed up, toward the couloir, toward the bench. The record
- 13:44Speaker 1: does not answer what it means. It notes the size, match,
- 13:49Speaker 1: the direction, and the absence of continuation. Long's final report
- 13:52Speaker 1: marks it inconclusive and moves on. What stays in that report,
- 13:57Speaker 1: immovable and unattributed, are two aluminum stakes placed correctly at
- 14:02Speaker 1: the windward corners of a tent, belonging to a woman
- 14:04Speaker 1: who says she placed only six, on a bench that almost...
- 14:08Speaker 1: No one knew how to reach, found by a septic contractor.
- 14:12Speaker 1: Looking down at the right angle on the right morning,
- 14:15Speaker 1: Nancy Long recorded it. She did not explain it. Neither
- 14:19Speaker 1: can anyone else. Angela Wagner left Duval Bench on a
- 14:23Speaker 1: stretcher on the afternoon of March 14th, 2019. Rich Foley
- 14:28Speaker 1: recorded her core temperature at 93.1 degrees Fahrenheit, moderate hypothermia,
- 14:34Speaker 1: conscious slow speech, left ankle wrapped and immobilized. No fracture.
- 14:40Speaker 1: The lateral malleolus had sustained a severe sprain, the kind
- 14:43Speaker 1: that makes every step feel like the bone is loose
- 14:46Speaker 1: inside the skin. She had managed that ankle for six
- 14:49Speaker 1: days at 8,400 feet on frozen ground inside a tent.
- 14:54Speaker 1: She pitched on a bench. Almost no one knew how
- 14:56Speaker 1: to reach. She recovered fully. Nancy Long closed the incident
- 15:00Speaker 1: as a wilderness rescue. No criminal investigation. No charges. No
- 15:05Speaker 1: missing persons case. Because she was no longer missing. The
- 15:09Speaker 1: file went into the Ochre County SAR archive. Stamped resolved.
- 15:13Speaker 1: With one section that resists that word. The two extra stakes.
- 15:18Speaker 1: Long's final report dedicates four paragraphs to them. Aluminum construction.
- 15:23Speaker 1: Slightly heavier gauge than Angela's six. Different manufacturer mark stamped
- 15:27Speaker 1: near the hook. Correctly placed at the windward corners of
- 15:30Speaker 1: the tent when the team arrived. Long photographed them against
- 15:33Speaker 1: a measuring tape. Before anyone touched the tent, she then
- 15:36Speaker 1: compared them, in person, against the gear of every SAR
- 15:40Speaker 1: volunteer who had approached the site. No match. She contacted
- 15:44Speaker 1: the Duval family, who confirmed the bench had seen occasional
- 15:48Speaker 1: off-trail camping over the years. She noted that the stakes
- 15:51Speaker 1: showed no surface oxidation consistent with prolonged exposure at altitude.
- 15:56Speaker 1: They were not weathered the way gear left on a
- 15:58Speaker 1: high bench weathers. They looked recent. Long did not speculate
- 16:02Speaker 1: in writing about what that means. She was asked about
- 16:05Speaker 1: it afterward, and her answer, according to the incident debrief record,
- 16:08Speaker 1: was precise. She had documented what she found and exhausted
- 16:12Speaker 1: the comparisons available to her. Beyond that, the record did
- 16:16Speaker 1: not support a conclusion. It still does not. Angela has
- 16:19Speaker 1: no explanation either. She remembers pitching her tent in fading light,
- 16:24Speaker 1: moving fast because her ankle had already begun to swell significantly.
- 16:28Speaker 1: and the temperature was dropping. She does not remember noticing
- 16:31Speaker 1: stakes already set in the ground. She says she may
- 16:34Speaker 1: have driven her own into adjacent positions without examining the
- 16:37Speaker 1: corners closely. She also says she is not certain. That
- 16:41Speaker 1: uncertainty is the honest edge of this case. The bench
- 16:43Speaker 1: loop permit system still operates at the same trailhead. The
- 16:47Speaker 1: koluai that separates Duval Bench from the main wilderness corridor
- 16:51Speaker 1: is not marked on any agency map as a route.
- 16:53Speaker 1: It is not recommended, not maintained, and not visible from
- 16:57Speaker 1: the trail below. A hiker standing at the drainage crossing
- 17:00Speaker 1: at mile four would see a steep white face, and
- 17:03Speaker 1: nothing more. The cache Angela left, four days of food
- 17:07Speaker 1: in a sealed dry bag, 30 yards west of the
- 17:10Speaker 1: marked trail, was recovered by SAR, and returned to her.
- 17:14Speaker 1: She still has the back. What stays with this case,
- 17:17Speaker 1: long after the rescue paperwork is filed, is something specific
- 17:21Speaker 1: about how it almost ended differently. Not because Angela made
- 17:24Speaker 1: a catastrophic error, because she made one spontaneous decision, to
- 17:29Speaker 1: go up instead of continuing the loop, and the consequences
- 17:32Speaker 1: of that decision were separated from disaster by a narrow
- 17:35Speaker 1: margin that the record lays out with uncomfortable precision. She
- 17:38Speaker 1: had no crampons, no ice axe, she crawled the upper
- 17:42Speaker 1: third of a 38 degree color on her hands and
- 17:45Speaker 1: knees with a sprained ankle, using a trekking pole as
- 17:48Speaker 1: a break. Then she waited, six days at altitude, with
- 17:52Speaker 1: enough gear to survive. while a storm buried the only
- 17:56Speaker 1: physical evidence of which direction she had gone. The footprint
- 17:59Speaker 1: Elaine Bodine found on March 13th was one partial impression
- 18:03Speaker 1: in a two-square-foot patch of exposed earth. One. If the
- 18:07Speaker 1: freeze had been three degrees colder that night, the ground
- 18:10Speaker 1: stays hard. Bodine finds nothing. The search stays below the couloir.
- 18:15Speaker 1: Howard Crawford was called to the Duval property to inspect
- 18:19Speaker 1: a septic leach field. He stood at the edge of
- 18:21Speaker 1: the field, and looked down 60 feet at a slope
- 18:25Speaker 1: he had no professional reason to examine. The orange tent
- 18:28Speaker 1: was visible only because of the angle of his position
- 18:30Speaker 1: and the time of morning. An hour later, the light
- 18:34Speaker 1: would have changed. A different contractor, standing two feet to
- 18:37Speaker 1: the left, might have looked at the drainage and nothing else.
- 18:40Speaker 1: There is something in this case about the thinness of
- 18:43Speaker 1: the margin between found and not found, between a gecko's
- 18:46Speaker 1: missed feeding schedule and a different outcome, between one contractor's
- 18:50Speaker 1: sightline and an extended search. Angela Wagner was 26 years old, trained, experienced,
- 18:57Speaker 1: and prepared by any measurable standard. She still came within
- 19:00Speaker 1: a degree in the sightline of not coming home. The
- 19:03Speaker 1: two stakes remain unattributed. Nancy Long's report remains accurate and open.
- 19:08Speaker 1: The bench is still up there, above a couloir no
- 19:11Speaker 1: map names, in a wilderness most people will never see.
- 19:14Speaker 1: Angela Wagner goes outside. She still does. That detail is
- 19:18Speaker 1: not a footnote. It is the whole point. This show
- 19:21Speaker 1: is made by Oboe Media.