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Fictional Women Around the World: Xena, Warrior Princess · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Stefan never told you a protection of iHeart Radio, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: welcome to another sub sub sub subsegment, Fictional Women around
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: the World, the first of twenty twenty four, and we
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: are coming out the gate strong with this one.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Samantha, I'm a little intimidated, but we're gonna do it. Today.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: We are talking about nineties feminist icon Xena Warrior Princess. Yes.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I couldn't believe. We never talked about it, like in
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: all of the hosts.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Never really no host talked about her.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No, not that I could find. I know. I was shocked.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, she was one of if there was
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: a like mother that term, she would have been mother.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: And I think some of you are probably mad that
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: this is a stub sechment your whole episode, but this
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: is what we're doing.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Maybe we should come back, Maybe we should watch a
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: few episodes and come back because we need to talk
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: about so many things in there.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, I guess I should come up. Friends,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I've never seen an episode, I know.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: That's why I've intimidated. I never saw it. But my
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: friend Katie, who's been on this show. She loved it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I loved it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, loved it as well. It's been a
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: lot long time, but it was something that I watched
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: a lot of.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, well see, I was in so deep with young
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Hercules was by the way, I think I've I think
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I found a way to purchase it yesterday.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: That came after.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was nineteen ninety nine, I think, yeah, and
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: this was this was during that time. But yeah, anyway,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I did not see any of it. I feel terrible
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: about myself. I am shamed, but I.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: Feel like, yeah, we need to remedy that, because I
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: mean I definitely liked Hercules. Of course now I would
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: never but but then when Zena came through and she
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: was kind of the antagonist to Hercules and then got
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: her own show, I was.
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: Like, yes, obviously I must watch all of it. But
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: you were not alone, and you were not alone. Okay,
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: I'm ready to keep going. I'm ready for all right, Yes, okay, cool.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: I hope you can step in and correct you if you.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: A long time, I don't think I can. Okay, Cool, Well,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: here we go.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: This character was yes, played by Lucy Lawless and had
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: a huge following and there are so many essays, books,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: blog posts, what have you that have been written about her.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: That was another thing that was kind of daunting for
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: this one. But I love early fan conventions centered around Zene.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I believe there are two that happened every year. One
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: is in la and one is in London. I did
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: a lot to popularize genre bending, experimental episodes, like having
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: a musical episode. There was going to be a reboot,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: but it has been indefinitely chived. But yes, the show,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: this character had a really huge impact and I just
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: want to do the opening narration.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: In a time of ancient gods, war lords, and kings,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: a land in turmoil cried out for a hero. She
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: was Xena, a mighty princess forged in the heat of battle.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: The power, the passion of the danger, her courage will
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: change the world.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Love it, I love it?
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: It?
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Did it did? Oh? Definitely? Yeah.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: So Zena first appeared in the nineteen ninety five to
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine series Hercules Legendary Journeys, where she was
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: popular enough of a character that the producer decided to
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: give her her own spin off show. So she went
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: on to appear in Robert E. Tappert's nineteen ninety five
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: to two thousand and one series. Sam Raimi was also
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: involved in their Zena Warrior Princess and then later the
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: comic book but the same name. She's also appeared in
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: an animated movie called The Battle from Mount Olympus, and
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: she's been in a bunch of non cannon confirmed stuff
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: from games to books. At one point during its run,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: this show was the most popular show in the world,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: more than Baywatch. Like This was a big hit Tue Joy.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: The show focuses on Zena and her quest for redemption
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: after spending time as a violent warlord. Her parents were
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Atreus and Syene, but at least one episode suggests Aries,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: the god of war, may be her biological father, which
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: is interesting. We'll talk about that more in a second.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: When the character was first introduced in Hercules, she was yeah,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: like you said, kind of an antagonist, kind of an outlaw.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: She'd spent like a decade looting and doing general rogue stuff.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: She tried to kill Hercules the first time they met,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: drawing him out after seducing his friend. So what happened
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: was her army had turned against her, believing her week
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: for saving a child from their lieutenant, so she had
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: originally tried to regain their trust and display her strength
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: by killing Hercules and presenting them with his head, but
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: thanks to some outside help, Hercules defeat Zena but refuses
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: to kill her, saying killing isn't the only way approving
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: you're a warrior, and that message really resonates with zene
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: and she decides to join up with him to defeat
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: her old army. In a later episode, they have a
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: brief romantic moment, Hercules telling her she's got good in her,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: but Zena decides to break it off and go work
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: on redeeming herself for her past actions, which is the
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: main driving plot of her show. Zena quickly discovers redemption
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: and her dark past are painful to take on, to
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: the point she almost gives up on being a warrior completely.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: She's taking off her armor and weapons and bearing it,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: but she sees a group of children being attacked by
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: warriors and she can't help herself from intervening. This is
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: where she meets Gabrielle, a traveling bard who is incredibly
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: inspired by Zena's strength and convinces Zena to let her
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: travel with her in part to document Zena's adventures. The
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: two eventually become very close friends and depending on who
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: you're talking to, more than that.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: That is the one thing I remember people being upset
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: about the show while I was watching it.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: They were very close. They were We will talk about
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: that for a second.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Or Gabrielle helps Zena make up with her mother and
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: is there when she encounters Aries, who Xena rebuffs when
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: he asked her to join him as warrior queen, which
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: again m She also runs into a warrior whose family
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: she had killed, named Callisto, and Callisto helps Hope, who
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: is the demon child of Gabrielle, kills Zina's son Solon,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: who did not know Xino was his mother.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Wo Drama.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: A friend of Zena's name Marcus, died during his first
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: good deed that Zena had convinced him like we need
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: to give up the sole violent killing way, Let's do
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: a good deed, and he died during the first good deed,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: and another son of hers tortures her mentor Laom to death.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Later after their ally, Caesar is betrayed by Brutus and killed.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Xena and Gabrielle were crucified during the IDEs of March
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: and then, of course, they were later to part with
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: the help of Callisto, who became an angel after Zena
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: killed her. Then, Xina gets pregnant with its so called
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: miracle child, prophesied to basically usher out the Olympian gods
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: and usher in Christianity. In order to escape what they
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: view as certain death, Gabrielle and Zena fake their own death,
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: but Ari's mocks everything up and he trapped them in
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a cave of ice, where they hibernate for twenty five years. Meanwhile,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Xena's daughter Eve was taken in by Roman Emperor Octavius,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: and she's now known as Libya, the Champion of Rome.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: She's very active in persecuting the followers of Eli Eli
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: was key in Zena's resurrection. Eventually, Xena secures Olivia's forgiveness
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: and Livia retakes the name Eve and takes on the
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: mantle of the Messenger of Eli. Eve is baptized and
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Zena is gifted with the ability to kill god's as
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: long as Eve is alive. As it turns out, Zena
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: brings on the prophesized Twilight of the gods after she
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: kills a bunch of them to protect her daughter. Oh,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: and she does this with the help of God and
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: the Archaice Joel Michael. A lot of interesting things going
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: on religiously here. Aris also helps sacrificing his immortality so
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: that a badly hurt Eve and Gabrielle can live. Zena
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: would go on to help him get his godhood back. Later,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: she ends up giving her life to defeat a gladier
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: named Yotashi, and ultimately chooses to stay dead so that
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: the souls of the forty thousand people she killed as
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: a warlord can find peace. Her spirit is later seen
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: with the spirit of Gabrielle, and this is only one
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: of many lives Xena will lead with Gabrielle her soulmate
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: in the two of them fighting evil together.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: That's what they're sort of told.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: So the series finale, which that's what that was, wasn't
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: the mo as well received. Even some of the showrunners
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: admitted that they think they flubbed it. But this idea
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: that they had the death as redemption thing that we've
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: talked about before, that was there since the very beginning.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: One of the writers said, wait a minute, ultimate redemption
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: may be here. She's not brought back to life, So
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I think they were always kind of thinking that she
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: was supposed to die in the Hercules show originally, so
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: it sounds like they just never gave up on that idea.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: But okay, that's the pot, just very broad strokes. So
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Zena was groundbreaking and important in a lot of ways.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: She was portrayed as the hero, the warrior, which was
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: role typically held by men, but she was still feminine,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: and she also still looked physically capable. Here's a quote
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: I found from Wiley. She can be vulnerable as well
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: as moody or cynical, but mostly she is happily. Also,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: no matter what her plight, she always retains her dignity.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: For example, she effectively deals with sexual harassment in the
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: teaser of the early episode The Path Not Taken Quasi
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: casually beating off one dirty young fellow after the other.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: After that, personal remarks and lewde gestures quickly diminish and
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: almost disappear from the series. And even the most macho
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: type opponents respect her as a warrior and a woman.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Zena is as much a woman's fantasy as she is
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: a man's, and that is her charm as well as
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: her power. Yes, here's a quote from Woosh which I
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: think is a whole Zena fan site that's been around
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: for a while. In context of this paper, the character
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Zena certainly appeals to the pleasure in looking, yet she
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: is hardly a passive object. Mulvey argues that for a
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: male spectator, a male movie stars glamorous characteristics or thus
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: not those of the erotic object of the gaze, but
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: those of the more perfect, more complete ideal ego, because
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: the character can make things happen and control events better
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: than the subject slow spectator. Why cannot a female hero
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: serve such a function for a female spectator? Polograham posits
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: a quote lesbian subjective space in which the female warrior
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: is sexually objectified but also identified with as phallic desiring object.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: There is thus an identification with and desire for the
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: masculinized female body, a space in which both protagonists and
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: spectator occupy phallic positions. In the relay, listen when I'm
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: telling you there are essays and books created about this.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: This is just a taste like there's.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: She was a different type of character, woman like Lucy Lawless,
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: broke some boundaries because her even her outfit mm hmm.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Even though it was like skirred and Nordic, but at
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: the same type it was still like heavily like geared,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: so it looked masculine, though it was still fimilar to
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: it everything about it.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's very functional, even brought up.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: There's like a lot of examples they gave of, Like
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: there's an episode where she has to pretend to be
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: like kind of like a sex object and they ask
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: her to dance, but then she like does it, but
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: is still clearly.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: In control of the situation. You know, she's gonna like
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: whoop them. It's really good.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: But yeah, this does bring us to I guess you'd
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: pronounce it Zabrielle. Oh yeah, Xena and Gabrielle.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: That's what it was called. Okay.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: So, Zena had a lot of romances, including with Caesar,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: who betrayed her, but many many of.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Them were heavily hinted.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Even the showrunners have been like, no, we we wanted
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: you to think that with women. So with Caesar, a
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: lot of people think she was more into Melila, who
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Caesar killed, and that's one of the big things that
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: ruined their relationship. Her relationship with lum is often viewed
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: through a romantic lens, Akini too, and yeah, these are
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: all women, but also Marcus, yes, Hercules, yes, but so
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: so so so many people were shipping Xena and Gabrielle,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: and I was looking at pictures of them together from
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the show and I was like, well, damn yeah.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Like I just clipped onto a YouTube of them and
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: a Commas on there. The way she looks at her
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: so softly, like those commas all the way down, kind
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: of like your response to Luke and Hahn in that
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: one scene. There's so many of those in Zena, Gabrielle and.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Her Yes, it I mean, but even in passing, I
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, I can see it.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I can see why people thought this.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: They have looks, and I have a few examples of
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: why people thought this that I'll share it in a
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: secular specific examples. But first I also I didn't know
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: this supero geared and add towards a lesbian audience at
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: one time, and it featured a license plate that read
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Zeno Lover.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: So this was like people knew about it.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: People knew about it, and this was coming out during
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: third wave feminism. We've talked to a bunch of other
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: about a bunch of other characters from this time, especially
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: like around witches, because of course we have. But there
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: was a lot of this going on, and it was
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: progressive in a lot of ways. It was mostly white show,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: but now there's a lot of things people were writing
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: about and I was like, oh, that's not that's sort
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: of become more than norm But at the time it
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: was pretty progressive. And one of the things people pointed
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: out was she did have a black man as a
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: love interest. Helen of Troy was played by a black woman.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Cleopatra was played by Gina Tarres, which I didn't know.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: And yeah, there was just there were a lot of
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Asian characters.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: All of this. I cannot say how well they were represented.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it, but unfortunately, at the time that
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: was pretty like, oh, okay, of course I have to
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: talk about. This came out in the early days of
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: internet fan fiction, and because people were shipping Gabrielle and
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Zena so much, left an impact that is still there today.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: So fans of Xena popularized alt fic, all or alternative
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: fiction for same sex romantic fiction. The term uber or
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: uber fick originated with Xena fan fiction, referring to when
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: characters are written or depicted in alternate universes, but are
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: still basically their canon selves, so like reincarnations or past
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: selves things like that, which, by the way, that's how
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the show pretty much ended. They were like, this is
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: your soul mate. You're gonna have many lives together in
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: different forms, but you're always going to be fighting together.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: It also kind of popularized, which is now sort of
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: a joke. But the sex and subtext, So yes, a
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: lot of this relationship was subtext, as in your reading
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: between the text, you're reading between the lines, You're looking
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: at the.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Looks that they share. You know, so many looks.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. But some of it was pretty in
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: your face. I was reading about it. I was like, okay, okay.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: So here's a quote from sci fi. Gabrielle finds herself
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: trapped in a ring of fire, and only her true
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: soulmate can brave the flames to free her, even without
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: her memories. Xena gravitates toward Gabrielle and awakens her with
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: a kiss. This is right around the place in this
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: series where the word subtext no longer applies. It doesn't
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: get much more openly gay than this, folks. The flirting
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: between Xena and Gabrielle is blatant. References to Sappho as
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Gabrielle's all time favorite poet abound, and there is a
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: lot of friendship baths and the fish puns are plentiful,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: to say the least. Xena dresses in drag Aphrodite appears
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: in all of her godly glory, and Xena goes through
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Heck just to gift Gabrielle with a love poem. If
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: that weren't enough, she pops on the helmet of Hermes
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: and flies around holding Gabrielle in her arms. Truly one
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: of the queerest episodes of television we have ever seen,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: and a nice almost end to the love story between
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Xena and Gabrielle.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: I had to like really cut down on all these coats.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Because I was like, this helps a basic They want
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: to be buried together, the fates agree they cannot be separated.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: They kissed, though it was like the spirit of Xena
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: in a man's body, but it still showed them kissing,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: which could still, you know, at that time, get you
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: in trouble with censorship, and so that they a lot
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: of the creators have said, like we were trying to
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: be as obvious as we could without getting censored, so
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: they knew about it. They were in on it, apparently,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: and the most recent comic run that was largely helmed
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: by women, the pair's romance was made official. Lucy Lawless
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: called their relationship definitely gay and said there was always
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: a wealth she might be or she might not be.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: But when there was that drip of water passing between
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: their lips in the very final scene, that's a menda
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: dip for me. Now, it wasn't just that Xena was
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: bisexual and kind of like her galpal and they kind
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: of fooled around.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it was Nope, they're married, man.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: I will say, Lucy Lawless has always been all one
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: hundred and twenty thousand percent playing into that. And I
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: don't think it was like token, especially during that point,
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: because that wasn't something that was lawed as being heroic,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, like people trying to find
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: that diversity, like you were't taking a risk.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Yeahs show yes.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And she has a quote about that I wanted to
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: read because she has embraced the queer reading of it.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So she this is from Collider. The fact that they
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: should be judged unequal writ large is disgraceful and unacceptable
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: good good souls. I hate that kind of injustice against children.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: People are queer or straight or whatever they are from
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: before the time they're born, So to be educating them
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: as less than getting those messages implicitly or explicitly from
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: such an early age. It's a violence. To me, it's
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: violence against children, and that just goes throughout their lives.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: So we want to eradicate that, stopping violence to children
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: telling them that they don't belong.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: It's so upsetting. So yeah, she has been out spoken
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I did want to note you can have a I'm
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: a big believer of platonic soul mate. It doesn't have
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the soulmate thing could be platonic. It's with all this
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: other stuff that you're kind of like, huh. But you
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: and I have talked about this before, like I feel
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: like you totally can have just like your friend, that's
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: right or die there for you.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: But given a lot of the other things changing.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Like that, and if we start like yeah.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Never again.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: But yes, this was a show that featured a lot
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: of women, strong women, complicated women, relationships between women. Were
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: there problematic things in episodes? Yes, I read about one
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: that apparently scarred a bunch of people. That was like
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: some dream sequence where Gabrielle was a mermaid. I was
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: reading about like whoa remember, But well, it's probably for
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: the best. It sounds like it was really really ground
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: baking and the impact of it is still felt today
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: in our culture on the internet.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: In two thousand and six, Lawless donated her personal costume.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: She's a National Museum of American History, so it's like
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: in a museum, that's so.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Cool as it should be. That is so cool. Yes,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: I think we should come back and dig into this world.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: You opened up a whole door that needs to be crossed,
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: and we need to have this conversation because I need
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: to remember those because I just remember thinking, even my
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: very conservative I think I've kind of shied away from
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: it because I was getting conservative.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know if I can watch
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: this ray. I still loved it.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I mean the fact that they put it in a
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: commercial shows how much people were thinking this is pretty
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: queer show.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: I also like that super just went all the way
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: and they already have this reputation anyway, and I'll love it,
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: you do you? But was like they're like, let me go,
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: let me go ahead.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my, I love it too.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I had such fun researching this and I definitely had
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: to cut myself off because I was like, oh gosh,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I can't read a whole book about this right now.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: But listeners, if you have thoughts about the show, Oh,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I can't wait. I'm sorry, I cannot wait, please let
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: us know. You can email us at Steffania mom Stuff
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: at mom Step podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: stuff I Never told you. We have a tea public store,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: and we have a book you can get wherever you
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: our executive producer Maya, and your contributor Joey.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Never told You. Protection by Heart Radio.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: out the Heart Radio, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.