Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Testosterone, GLP-1s, and Fat Loss Over 40 (Jay Campbell) | Ep 496

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Testosterone, GLP-1s, and Fat Loss Over 40 (Jay Campbell) | Ep 496 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:00
  Philip Pape: If you're over 40 and the fat loss has stalled, someone has probably said, eh, maybe it's your hormones.
• 0:06
  Philip Pape: Take a testosterone booster or get on TRT or HRT and now get a GLP1 and watch the weight just fall right off.
• 0:13
  Philip Pape: My guest today has been on testosterone therapy for over 25 years.
• 0:17
  Philip Pape: He wrote what many consider the definitive book on it.
• 0:21
  Philip Pape: And he'll be the first to tell you that most of what's being sold to you in that area is a scam.
• 0:26
  Philip Pape: We discussed today when hormones do and don't matter for you after 40, when they might be distracting you from the real problem, and the one thing you need to be doing right now to optimize your hormones, whether naturally or alongside HRT, if your goal is to lose fat and build muscle.
• 0:44
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that puts a popular piece of fitness advice under the microscope, finds the hidden reason it doesn't work, and gives you the deceptively simple fix that does.
• 0:56
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, Philip Pape, and today we are examining a belief that is everywhere right now that if you're older, if you're over 40, if you can't lose fat or build muscle, your hormones are of course the problem, and fixing them is the solution.
• 1:10
  Philip Pape: Testosterone clinics, creams, pellets, peptides, GLP1s, all the stuff we're talking about today, all over social media.
• 1:18
  Philip Pape: And the premise is that a syringe or a supplement will solve all your problems when nothing else seems to work.
• 1:23
  Philip Pape: My guest today is DJ Campbell.
• 1:26
  Philip Pape: He's been on testosterone therapy himself for more than 25 years.
• 1:29
  Philip Pape: He's the author of the testosterone optimization therapy Bible, and he co-founded BioLongevity Labs.
• 1:35
  Philip Pape: He is right in the thick of this industry.
• 1:38
  Philip Pape: He knows better than anyone where the real value is based on the evidence versus where the marketing maybe is overhyping or cherry-picking the science.
• 1:46
  Philip Pape: By the end of this episode, you'll know the latest on testosterone, where hormone therapy and peptides fit into, of course, your lifestyle and your health, and the most appropriate use of GLP1s, while avoiding some of the downsides around muscle mass, aggressive deficits, and even performance.
• 2:02
  Philip Pape: Jay, welcome to the show.
• 2:04
  Jay Campbell: Philip, thank you so much for having me, man.
• 2:06
  Jay Campbell: That was an awesome it was a little different than a normal bio, but I'll receive that and blessed to have you to have me speaking with you today.
• 2:12
  Jay Campbell: So I know this is going to be an epic interview.
• 2:14
  Philip Pape: Absolutely.
• 2:15
  Philip Pape: And a lot of the listeners probably know who you are.
• 2:16
  Philip Pape: And we'll get into like your background and where you're able to speak from credibility to some of these topics.
• 2:21
  Philip Pape: Sure.
• 2:22
  Philip Pape: And that'll just come up.
• 2:23
  Philip Pape: So I really want to start with kind of the big question where people who listen to this show, for example, they know the value of lifting weights, they know the value of life's getting your sleep, you know, taking care of your body, eating right.
• 2:35
  Philip Pape: But how likely is it that hormones on the list of things that are important are the reason that somebody is struggling to hit their goals, whether it's fat loss, building muscle, or performance?
• 2:47
  Jay Campbell: So it's a complex, it's a great question and a complex answer because I really think it also depends on like where the person is in the world.
• 2:53
  Jay Campbell: You know, DNA does play a role, but in the modernized, you know, areas of the world right now, which would obviously be the West, clearly almost every coastal population center, urbanized city in the United States, the environmental contamination is unavoidable.
• 3:10
  Jay Campbell: Like, you know, like I say, you know, from the water that we drink in plastic bottles.
• 3:15
  Jay Campbell: I mean, this is the best water on earth, right?
• 3:16
  Jay Campbell: This is Icelandic water.
• 3:17
  Jay Campbell: It's this is the best water you can get like in a bottle in the world, because it comes from an actual deep mineral springs, still in Iceland.
• 3:24
  Jay Campbell: It's one of the only places in the world that's not contaminated.
• 3:27
  Jay Campbell: But between the water, the air, the food, the blue light, you know, the EMF, I mean, it's very, very difficult for people today, and really in their younger, you know, like now, even in their late 20s, early 30s, mid-30s, and beyond, to not have, you know, some sort of hormonal dysregulation.
• 3:46
  Jay Campbell: And, you know, I think the medical system, if we want to call it that, you know, the allopathic, you know, sick care, illness management system, it's not trained to help people understand hormonal deficiencies.
• 3:58
  Jay Campbell: They're not even like looking for that, right?
• 4:00
  Jay Campbell: Like most of the doctors, even a young guy or let's say an aging person, say 40 or older, goes and they're complaining of, you know, brain fog, you know, dregulated mood, lack of energy, belly fat, et cetera.
• 4:13
  Jay Campbell: They literally want to give them, you know, a PD5 inhibitor like Viagra or Cialis, or they want to give them a SSRI, right, to alleviate their brain fog and their poor mood.
• 4:23
  Jay Campbell: And they'll never even look for the underlying condition, which is obviously usually sometimes a hormone, not not usually, almost all the time now at this point, some form of hormone deficiency.
• 4:31
  Jay Campbell: So I want to say that I would say between 70 and 80% of people who are doing everything else right, if they have a hormone deficiency, it's going to be a huge obstacle for them to get to where they ultimately desire to go, which would obviously be leader, more tone, more muscular.
• 4:49
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 4:49
  Philip Pape: So that's interesting.
• 4:50
  Philip Pape: What about the flip side of that?
• 4:52
  Philip Pape: People that aren't doing all the things right.
• 4:54
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 4:55
  Philip Pape: You know what I mean?
• 4:55
  Philip Pape: How likely is it that hormones are the causal factor?
• 4:59
  Philip Pape: You know what I mean?
• 5:00
  Philip Pape: 99.9%.
• 5:02
  Jay Campbell: Because the issue is there, if so if you're fat, and I mean fat, right?
• 5:07
  Jay Campbell: And the BMI is, you know, not the greatest gauge for muscular people, obviously.
• 5:11
  Jay Campbell: But if you're, you know, 29 or 30 or higher BMI as a middle-aged man or woman, the likelihood that you have a hormone deficiency is very high, right?
• 5:20
  Jay Campbell: Because the insulin resistance, the belly fat, the inflammation, the cytokines, all the stuff that's going on in that belly fat or that fat that's over your internal organs is literally causing a hormonal dysregulation.
• 5:32
  Jay Campbell: So it's crazy.
• 5:34
  Jay Campbell: It's, you know, the kick, the chicken or the egg scenario, right?
• 5:36
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:37
  Philip Pape: I'm glad you did.
• 5:38
  Philip Pape: I'm glad you said that though, because like that, people expect the other answer.
• 5:41
  Philip Pape: And like you said, it goes both ways, right?
• 5:43
  Philip Pape: It influences your hormones.
• 5:45
  Philip Pape: It's like you got cytokines.
• 5:46
  Philip Pape: Well, you know, build muscle.
• 5:47
  Philip Pape: Now you have myokines kind of setting and things like that.
• 5:50
  Philip Pape: So I want to unpack a couple of things you mentioned about the hormones in the environment.
• 5:54
  Philip Pape: You mentioned environmental contamination.
• 5:55
  Philip Pape: And, you know, that's that's an interesting area, right?
• 5:57
  Philip Pape: Because unless you're very careful with how it's framed and like the evidence, you could go, I there's there's a lot of quackery in that world, you know.
• 6:04
  Philip Pape: But I've heard you talk about this, and like I think about women's health, for example, and all the cases of infertility and endometriosis and all this stuff that's all of a sudden blowing up and then low testosterone in men, and you know, and some of that is testing and things, I get it.
• 6:17
  Philip Pape: But and what's the other thing?
• 6:19
  Philip Pape: Older folks that go to the doctor, not even younger guys.
• 6:21
  Philip Pape: I mean, I know plenty of older folks in my own family, older guys in their 60s and 70s, you know they need to get their testosterone checked, and the doctor never mentions it.
• 6:29
  Philip Pape: No, it's like, what the hell?
• 6:30
  Philip Pape: So it's important.
• 6:31
  Jay Campbell: No more, they don't understand how to treat it anyway, right?
• 6:34
  Jay Campbell: And again, most men who do go in their 30s or 40s, and they only because it's at the behest of their wife, because they can't get an erection or they can't hold an erection, or they just have no desire, right?
• 6:45
  Jay Campbell: Like a lot of women think their husband's cheating on them because they have no interest in him, but it's really because they just have a dis you know dysregulation of their hormones.
• 6:52
  Jay Campbell: But in truth, if you go to a doctor and the doctor's not qualified, which is again 80 to 90 percent of GPs, right?
• 7:00
  Jay Campbell: Actually insurance doctors, they're literally going to, if you ask them to do it, they're going to test your total and not your free.
• 7:06
  Jay Campbell: And then they're gonna be like, oh, you're 350 or you're 400, you're you know, 290, you're fine.
• 7:12
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, you're in rate.
• 7:13
  Jay Campbell: They literally don't understand the difference between free and total anyway, because they never learned that stuff.
• 7:18
  Jay Campbell: So they're never gonna tell you, oh, you have a testosterone deficiency because now the onus is on them on treating you and they don't know how to do it.
• 7:25
  Philip Pape: And now, now let me, you know, here's another thing, right?
• 7:28
  Philip Pape: So let's the whole, if you had to pick a whole like a pie of all the things that have affected testosterone in the modern generation, right?
• 7:34
  Philip Pape: You mentioned environmental.
• 7:36
  Philip Pape: There's also a general decline in testosterone.
• 7:39
  Philip Pape: Although I've heard I've I've heard more analysis of this that maybe that's a statistical thing and not a real thing.
• 7:44
  Philip Pape: Or in other words, the population has lower testosterone, but it's correlated with higher body fat.
• 7:50
  Philip Pape: And so you would expect it, right?
• 7:51
  Philip Pape: Is that what it is?
• 7:52
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, that's literally what they say.
• 7:53
  Jay Campbell: And if you look at this, you know, what they call the standard mean deviation of like the levels, the ranges at the top and the bottom, that is definitely happening.
• 8:00
  Jay Campbell: It's it's it's flattening and people are getting fatter.
• 8:04
  Jay Campbell: So you can 100% say that, but there are studies out there, and I've published them, you know, in my book, The Landmark One, was the Hebrew, and they took, you know, 68 or 70,000, I think it was 68,000 guys on all seven continents, and they studied them from like 1972.
• 8:18
  Jay Campbell: It was a meta-analysis, and then it was released.
• 8:20
  Jay Campbell: I think the data was released in 2014, but it was a 40-year thing, and they were able to show that testosterone levels were down about 80% and fertility levels were down statistically, like you couldn't even account for it.
• 8:34
  Jay Campbell: So obviously that you know, they deduced that it's just the environmental contamination.
• 8:38
  Jay Campbell: And again, when I say environmental contamination, I mean it's just modernization, right?
• 8:42
  Jay Campbell: Like this is the results of everything that we are building, all the plastics, the phylates, the pesticides, you know, the things that are almost unavoidable, you know.
• 8:53
  Jay Campbell: And that's why, like when I talk about this stuff, like I always say the biggest tool in the tool belt for everyone, man and woman, is always going to be therapeutic testosterone.
• 9:00
  Jay Campbell: However, you definitely have to change your lifestyle first, right?
• 9:03
  Jay Campbell: Like we have to make sure that we account for all the things that are affecting us.
• 9:07
  Jay Campbell: I mean, dude, think about all the men that are wearing nylon boxers, you know, lowering their sperm count, suppressing their, you know, the spacing in their testicles with these, you know, horrible, you know, again, polyester, whatever they are, nylon, you know, threads that, you know, essentially suppress hormone production.
• 9:25
  Jay Campbell: So there's so many different things that we have to account for.
• 9:27
  Jay Campbell: And so it's really, really difficult, you know, if you interview smart doctors that are really, you know, I would say awesome in prescribing hormones these days, and thankfully there are enough of them out there that will tell you that it's very difficult to be, especially in like a New York City or LA or Miami, to do everything naturally right and still not have an issue, right?
• 9:47
  Jay Campbell: So that's to me can be the biggest thing.
• 9:49
  Jay Campbell: And that's why I always say at the end of the day, if you're doing all the things right and you still have a dysregulation, you know, it's best to look into therapeutic hormones because again, it will move the needle bigger and faster than anything else will.
• 10:00
  Philip Pape: Yeah, for sure.
• 10:00
  Philip Pape: So I definitely want to hit on these pieces then.
• 10:02
  Philip Pape: So when we talk about therapy, you know, and I also am a big fan of therapeutic options, as you mentioned.
• 10:08
  Philip Pape: So I want to get out of the way, like the non-therapeutic things that a lot of people go to because it's cheap, easy, you know, quick.
• 10:15
  Philip Pape: I just want to try it out.
• 10:16
  Philip Pape: And I'm thinking there's both like testosterone boosters, like it says it on the package and also herbal stuff, Ashwagandha, yeah, all that stuff that some of it's great for other reasons, potentially, but talk to us about that.
• 10:29
  Jay Campbell: Well, yeah, no, I'm glad you brought that up because this is so old for me, right?
• 10:32
  Jay Campbell: So, I mean, in my first book that I wrote, which was really pub, really written in 2014 but published in 2015, was the first one it was the definitive TRT manual.
• 10:40
  Jay Campbell: And as you know, a lot of people, a lot of people have come to me and said this.
• 10:43
  Jay Campbell: I was the one that never said this, but they're like, you know that Jeff Bezos read that book because it was, you know, number one in men's health in 2016 for like six months.
• 10:51
  Jay Campbell: And then in 2017, he went from pipsqueak to the guy walking around.
• 10:55
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:55
  Jay Campbell: He's like, you know, you read that book, Jay.
• 10:58
  Jay Campbell: So many people have said that to me.
• 10:59
  Jay Campbell: But look, me analyzed in that book a whole chapter on natural testosterone boosters.
• 11:03
  Jay Campbell: And then we also obviously went deeper in the 2018 book, which was obviously the one you quoted, the TOT Bible.
• 11:09
  Jay Campbell: And the reality is that all the statistics and meta-analysis are on boosters, you know, call them, you know, aphrodisiacs.
• 11:16
  Jay Campbell: You you mentioned Astral Gonda, you know, there's Tribulus, there's what is there's the stuff that Huberman sells, there's there's all these different things that, like, when you take that Greek, yeah, exactly.
• 11:26
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, but you take them and then you measure, you will see an elevation in a lot of different things.
• 11:33
  Jay Campbell: The thing is, it's always transient.
• 11:36
  Jay Campbell: And so I always tell people like, none of these things are going to keep you optimized or get you on the path to being optimized.
• 11:44
  Jay Campbell: And that's the thing.
• 11:45
  Jay Campbell: And so, you know, I always make the joke about it now, is what is it?
• 11:47
  Jay Campbell: It's nugenics, right?
• 11:48
  Jay Campbell: Or it's it's Frank Thomas and Doug Flutie on those commercials, right?
• 11:51
  Jay Campbell: And they're, you know, they're showing them with their shirts off and their 50s and 60s, and it's like, oh, if I take this booster, I'm all jacked.
• 11:57
  Jay Campbell: And it's so many people still believe that, you know, and you know, whether it's due to needle phobia, you know, or the fear of you know, that there's so much demonization, as you know, in the public about taking therapeutic testosterone and how you make you could become addicted, or you know, there's the Lyle Alzado nonsense.
• 12:13
  Philip Pape: I mean, there's just so much stuff attached to GLP1s are no problem with very little research, but T I know so it's I mean, but it's a stigma, right?
• 12:21
  Jay Campbell: It's been there for decades, and there's still so many people that are attached to the stigma.
• 12:29
  Jay Campbell: And because of that, and let's not forget also the lack of education in the physician community and or lack of enough doctors, you know, again, for insurance providing doctors that can prescribe testosterone, and you have what you have, which is again, people being fleeced, you know, and that's the truth about all of these things.
• 12:47
  Jay Campbell: And again, like you said, you know, Astrogonda, great for cortisol suppression.
• 12:50
  Jay Campbell: I take it at night before I go to bed.
• 12:52
  Jay Campbell: Is it going to increase my testosterone to make me feel optimized?
• 12:55
  Jay Campbell: Absolutely not.
• 12:56
  Jay Campbell: And there are some tons of other things that we already mentioned, you know, and again, these are all covered in my book.
• 13:01
  Jay Campbell: But at this point today, outside of like taking HMG or HCG or and clomophene or even clomophene itself, which will re you know increase FSH and LH, which is obviously follicle stimulating hormone and glutenizing hormone, there's nothing that is going to actually optimize your hormones other than the real McCoy.
• 13:21
  Jay Campbell: It's just there's nothing out there.
• 13:22
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 13:22
  Philip Pape: So let's play the stack game, the lifestyle stack and then the therapeutic stack on that, because man, I've worked with clients who like they lose all this body fat as they're on TRT, and then they're all of a sudden too high on the because that has gone up naturally as well.
• 13:37
  Philip Pape: So, like, how much of low T symptoms, I guess, and actual low T can be influenced by, for example, I think fat loss is the big one, but there's also under or overtraining, poor sleep, stress, all the other things in life, like where would you put the biggest levers?
• 13:53
  Jay Campbell: So for sure, you know, if you're going to do this naturally, uh and again, this is the chicken and egg syndrome, right?
• 13:58
  Jay Campbell: Because an obese man struggles with energy, right?
• 14:02
  Jay Campbell: So if you're going to give them a protocol, you know, maybe you throw in a microdose of a you know retitrutide or terzapatide and you give them therapeutic testosterone, and obviously you have your training dialed in and their cardio dialed in and their eating dialed in and all those things.
• 14:16
  Jay Campbell: It's better, you know, for an obese man to be on, you know, again, a combination of those things, essentially, if they're doing all the other things, than it would be to just attempt to have the obese man do all the things without testosterone and Bretta or TERS because again, their metabolism is so slow because they have the obesity and you know, the insulin resistance, et cetera.
• 14:36
  Jay Campbell: So I like when they are you know heavier and dealing with these issues, I like working.
• 14:41
  Philip Pape: Can I challenge that a little bit?
• 14:42
  Philip Pape: Just a tiny bit.
• 14:43
  Philip Pape: I want to see what you think about this.
• 14:44
  Philip Pape: You said because the metabolism is so slow.
• 14:46
  Philip Pape: I mean, there are a lot of overweight men who have a rather high expenditure, but I think isn't the issue more the appetite and the hunger and just the inability to to change that lifestyle to do what they need to do.
• 14:58
  Jay Campbell: I think it's multifactoral.
• 14:59
  Jay Campbell: I think I think I think we have to deal with a the reason they're like that is because clearly they're not eating well.
• 15:06
  Jay Campbell: Right.
• 15:06
  Jay Campbell: And if they're eating boxed foodstuffs in engineered food all the time, then without a doubt, what you just said is true.
• 15:12
  Jay Campbell: They have some sort of an addiction to eating like shit.
• 15:15
  Jay Campbell: You know, like Sal says on on Mind Pump, you know, it's discussed with me, the hyperpalatability of food from all the chemicals, you know, a lot of these people are addicted to the chemical sensation.
• 15:26
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, you know, they're not really addicted to the actually overconsumption of the food, it's just the addiction from the brain.
• 15:31
  Jay Campbell: So that's why I like if you're again, and and everybody's different, but if you're morbidly obese and you have no energy, you know, testosterone being lipolytic, being dopaminergic signaling, you know, spiking, all those things, it helps motivate a person to get on the path to do all the things.
• 15:48
  Jay Campbell: And and I'm not saying that a person can't do it without them, but and and and let's be honest, Phil, five years ago we didn't have this anyway, right?
• 15:57
  Jay Campbell: So like they had to do it, but nowadays it's just if you understand, and again, there aren't a lot of doctors that understand this, there's not even a lot of trainers that understand this, or even functional health coaches understand it.
• 16:06
  Jay Campbell: But if you do understand how to microdose and use therapeutic hormones, it's going to be a better, you know, call it adjuvant as long as they're doing all the other things.
• 16:15
  Jay Campbell: And more times.
• 16:16
  Jay Campbell: As you know, the other things are always most important.
• 16:18
  Jay Campbell: And I always say this when I talk to people peptides or testosterone are not magic bullets.
• 16:24
  Jay Campbell: You cannot, under any circumstances, do anything with any of those things if you don't have your lifestyle dialed in.
• 16:29
  Jay Campbell: And so many people think that they're just cheat codes and that they're easy buttons and you know, exercising a pill or a bottle or something like that, and that all you have to do is that.
• 16:38
  Jay Campbell: I mean, some my chiropractor today was a Justin Mean, he was saying some woman came into him, and he's not like us, but you know, he knows a little bit, and she was like, Oh, she was telling me about this redotrutide.
• 16:47
  Jay Campbell: And he's like, What can you tell me about that?
• 16:49
  Jay Campbell: You know, and I'm like, Well, yeah, bro, redotrutide is a pre-figured, yeah, and you know, it's been around in the research community and really now everybody's community for three years, but it's still not approved, and blah, blah.
• 16:59
  Jay Campbell: And he's like, Well, she told me that, and then it was just instant, you know, you could tell the doctor told her, you know, builds muscle, you don't have to lift weights.
• 17:07
  Jay Campbell: So this is what people are being told.
• 17:10
  Jay Campbell: You know, this is the nonsense.
• 17:12
  Jay Campbell: Because again, at the end of the day, dude, like the doctors are attempting, as I always say this, they're attempting to make money.
• 17:17
  Jay Campbell: And if a pharma rep comes into them and says, start them here and go higher, that's how everybody in the pharmac, you know, the pharma command circle makes money.
• 17:26
  Jay Campbell: You know, the pharmaceutical giant makes money, the actual pharmaceutical rep makes money, the doctor makes money, the patient is the one, you know, that gets experimented on because they're the ones that usually have the receptors blown out because the dosage is starting too high and then it goes too high.
• 17:41
  Jay Campbell: It's like I always say in the pharma world, titrate high go higher.
• 17:44
  Jay Campbell: You know, in the research world where you're doing it right, it's start low go slow, right?
• 17:49
  Jay Campbell: So it's like you just have to have an under and uh what I would call an education or an understanding and an awareness of like how to use these as tools because that's all they are.
• 17:58
  Jay Campbell: That's what testosterone is, that's what peptides are, GLPs, they're just tools, they're not magic buttons and I think or magic bullets.
• 18:05
  Jay Campbell: And I think so many people think they are because they don't get the correct education when they're initiating.
• 18:09
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I can't argue with anything you said because I definitely see the use of this suite of tools from folks who, even if they're not obese, even if it's just like they're really struggling to get to that next part that they want to be at and they have a deficiency and they're lifting all the time.
• 18:22
  Philip Pape: It's frustrating, man, when you're doing all that stuff, especially, you know, you get older and maybe the testosterone continues to drop more and more.
• 18:28
  Philip Pape: And exactly what you're doing is now you actually going back in.
• 18:32
  Philip Pape: It sucks.
• 18:33
  Philip Pape: So you now you've been on testosterone for quite a long time now.
• 18:37
  Philip Pape: Like I'm just curious about your personal experience there.
• 18:40
  Philip Pape: What did it, you know, what did it change for you versus not?
• 18:42
  Philip Pape: But also, were there any not myths, but like things that are overhyped, I guess, that bit that people think about testosterone?
• 18:50
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, so I've been on therapeutic testosterone since I was one month from turning 30.
• 18:55
  Jay Campbell: So this goes back to 1999 because I'm 55 today.
• 18:57
  Jay Campbell: Um, so I've been on it, what, 26 years, basically going on 27 years, and I've used every delivery system.
• 19:03
  Jay Campbell: You know, when I first started, it was injectable.
• 19:05
  Jay Campbell: And then after that, I was like, oh, you know, I have to inject myself.
• 19:08
  Jay Campbell: Because back then, dude, we didn't have 31, 32 gauge insulin needles, you know, they were used, they had testosterone in like cottonseed oil.
• 19:14
  Jay Campbell: You know what I mean?
• 19:15
  Jay Campbell: So a lot of people, if you had any kind of like hyperallergic or, you know, a histologic response to it, you you'd have an injection response to it.
• 19:22
  Jay Campbell: But and you know, back then they were probably injecting with like 24, 25 gauge needles.
• 19:26
  Jay Campbell: So, you know, it creates our scar tissue.
• 19:28
  Jay Campbell: But then after that, you know, I was using cream and I was, you know, putting it on my forearms, putting it on my inner thighs.
• 19:32
  Jay Campbell: And then obviously, you know, as time progressed, we found out about transcrotal testosterone.
• 19:37
  Jay Campbell: You put it at the base of your scrotum, you know, 200 milligrams per gram, compounded cream.
• 19:41
  Jay Campbell: So I've used them all.
• 19:42
  Jay Campbell: You know, outside of that, obviously I've written prolifically about all the different delivery systems.
• 19:46
  Jay Campbell: Outside of small needle, you know, insulin syringe injection, where whether it's either I am or sub Q or transcrotal, all the other delivery systems are fraught with issues or will not raise a man or even a woman's testosterone into optimal levels.
• 20:02
  Jay Campbell: You know, there's guys now out there, you know, promoting this, I forget what it's called.
• 20:06
  Jay Campbell: It's an oral, you know, lozenge.
• 20:08
  Jay Campbell: There's even the testo, which is the nasal stuff, which is, by the way, horrific, which causes headaches and sinus infections and sinus cavity issues.
• 20:15
  Jay Campbell: And my God, it goes on and on.
• 20:17
  Jay Campbell: But there's lots of delivery systems for testosterone.
• 20:20
  Jay Campbell: Almost all of them are highly inefficient, other than, like I said, small insulin gauge syringe injections.
• 20:28
  Jay Campbell: And that's again, I am or sub Q.
• 20:30
  Jay Campbell: You can obviously inject into the belly.
• 20:32
  Jay Campbell: I want to talk about that in a second.
• 20:33
  Jay Campbell: And then transcrotal.
• 20:34
  Jay Campbell: And for women, same thing, injection or cream on the inter labial lips or the hood of the clitoris.
• 20:42
  Jay Campbell: Because again, that tissue is the same permeate, how would I say it, permanent skin permeability that a man's penis has.
• 20:49
  Jay Campbell: It's exact same a bit, a bit.
• 20:51
  Jay Campbell: So but base of the scrotum or at the hood of the clitoris or interlabial lips is the same.
• 20:56
  Jay Campbell: So those are your only two tried and two delivery systems that work for people.
• 21:00
  Jay Campbell: I know there's other stuff out there now, and there's even, you know, that oral lozenge is now FDA approved, but everyone that I've spoken to about it, including Docs, say, yeah, you can get a man of like 200 to 400, right?
• 21:11
  Jay Campbell: So it's like the FDA loves it, right?
• 21:14
  Jay Campbell: Because you don't actually optimize them, but you can show movement, you know, on the chart.
• 21:18
  Jay Campbell: So great.
• 21:19
  Jay Campbell: But then you also find out that it's like 450 bucks a month with insurance, right?
• 21:23
  Jay Campbell: Versus a bottle of you know, 200 milligram 10cc testosterone, 75 bucks, you know, from good RX.
• 21:29
  Jay Campbell: So you really just have to understand the ins and outs.
• 21:31
  Jay Campbell: But to your original question, if you do this right, and what I mean by doing it right is again, microdosing, starting low, going slow, not expecting it to make you the incredible Hulk or to you know a professional bodybuilder or any of that.
• 21:45
  Jay Campbell: Because again, I always like to say to be that size, you have to take a lot of stuff, right?
• 21:51
  Jay Campbell: Not just testosterone, but you know, most likely some other stuff anabolics, growth hormone, insulin, you know, eat a lot of food.
• 21:58
  Jay Campbell: There's lots.
• 21:59
  Jay Campbell: Peptides you can talk about too.
• 22:01
  Jay Campbell: But the reality is if you're just using therapeutic testosterone, you start very, very low.
• 22:06
  Jay Campbell: You attempt to do as many shots, or if you're using the cream, it's daily administration, but it's as many to mimic the body's natural production, right?
• 22:15
  Jay Campbell: So I always settled on in my life and still to this way to this day, three shots a week.
• 22:20
  Jay Campbell: So it's like every other day.
• 22:22
  Jay Campbell: There are lots of people that inject every morning.
• 22:24
  Jay Campbell: You know, I know lots of guys and women that do that.
• 22:26
  Jay Campbell: They think it's like, you know, part of their morning ritual.
• 22:28
  Jay Campbell: They like injecting with a 31 or 32 gauge needle.
• 22:31
  Jay Campbell: You know, like for a woman, it's like two milligrams, you know, and for a guy, it can be like 15 to 25 milligrams or something like that.
• 22:38
  Jay Campbell: Or some guys to probably do 30, you know, to get around 200.
• 22:41
  Jay Campbell: But again, everybody's dosing is different.
• 22:43
  Jay Campbell: As far as the side effects profile, if I go way back to remember it, because I don't have any sides anymore from any of this.
• 22:49
  Jay Campbell: I've been on it for so long.
• 22:51
  Jay Campbell: You know, the the little things that most people know about, you know, you can get bumps, you can get like little zits, you know, or rashes like on your upper back or your upper shoulders.
• 22:59
  Jay Campbell: I think that that has a lot to do sometimes with diet, you know, how much insulin, what your insulin sensitivity is.
• 23:05
  Jay Campbell: Like when you're eating a lot more carbs and you're eating, let's say, less restrained, I've always noticed, and again, this is my opinion, but I've always noticed that you can get more acne.
• 23:14
  Jay Campbell: I think people call it back.
• 23:16
  Jay Campbell: But again, I wanted to talk to you about like testosterone in the belly.
• 23:19
  Jay Campbell: I think one of the things that a lot of people don't understand is if you have a lot of belly fat, you know, so you, you know, you've got insulin resistance in your belly where your belly fat is, and you inject testosterone into it, which a lot of people do, it causes another inflammatory reaction because the visceral fat in you know senses the testosterone and is like, what the hell is this?
• 23:37
  Jay Campbell: It's another chemical you're injecting into it.
• 23:39
  Jay Campbell: Not to mention it's not just testosterone, it could be, again, grapeseed oil or MCT oil or whatever.
• 23:44
  Jay Campbell: So a lot of times guys get, you know, what they assume to be estrogen-related side effects, you know, mood imbalance, water retention, you know, irritability because the belly fat and the testosterone don't mix.
• 23:58
  Jay Campbell: And none of those are high estrogen symptoms.
• 24:01
  Jay Campbell: Those are all literally due to inflammatory response by your body.
• 24:05
  Jay Campbell: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Jay Campbell: So I mean, I talk about this a lot, but again, a lot of doctors mistake this because so many men who are fat, you know, when I say fat, I mean literally they're carrying like a spare tire, right?
• 24:15
  Jay Campbell: So lots of guys are, you know, big training in the gym, but they got a belly because they're drinking too much alcohol, eating too much processed food and sugar.
• 24:22
  Jay Campbell: So when they inject the testosterone into the belly, they get that inflammatory response.
• 24:26
  Jay Campbell: And then that response by their doctor is like, oh, your estrogen is, you know, high.
• 24:31
  Jay Campbell: I got to give you an AI or I got to suppress your estrogen.
• 24:33
  Jay Campbell: And dude, as you know, you just shook your head.
• 24:35
  Jay Campbell: So I do know you.
• 24:36
  Philip Pape: Without even testing it, right?
• 24:37
  Jay Campbell: You never under any circumstances suppress a man's estrogen because when you suppress a man's estrogen, that's when the side effects and the symptomology starts.
• 24:48
  Jay Campbell: Because as I like to say, man, and this is like really well understood in the medical world, but not in the TRT, you know, and testosterone using world, estrogen, estradiol is a pleiotropic hormone that's responsible for brain health, bone mineral density, skin health, sexual function, heart health.
• 25:06
  Jay Campbell: I mean, I could go on and on and on.
• 25:07
  Jay Campbell: So when you suppress estradiol, you are creating all sorts of very bad cellular processes and cellular cascades that you don't want.
• 25:17
  Jay Campbell: So, you know, there's thankfully some really good doctors out there that have looked at guys who have been on therapeutic testosterone for decades, you know, let's just say 15 years plus, who've been on AIs and dude, they have the bone mineral density of birds, like literally birds.
• 25:29
  Jay Campbell: Like their skeleton cannot hold, or let's just say they cannot deal with axial stress because you know, their bone mineral density has been destroyed.
• 25:39
  Jay Campbell: So again, it's I think the most important thing is for anybody that's using therapeutic testosterone, if your doctor is putting you on an AI, fike, immediately seek out another doctor, because there's never a reason to use an AI.
• 25:51
  Jay Campbell: And the other thing to mention about that, which is important, is there's no level of estradiol that is too high.
• 25:59
  Jay Campbell: And what I mean by that is in the absence of symptoms and side effects, if you start therapeutic testosterone and your estradiol goes to 120, 150, I've even seen it at people like 180, and you don't have any symptoms or side effects.
• 26:12
  Jay Campbell: Theoretically, Philip, you are more protected from a vascular or cerebral event than anybody who has like an estradiol walking around of like a 50, 60, or 70.
• 26:23
  Jay Campbell: And so many doctors see an estradiol in the 60s, 70s, and 80s and instantly freak out and say, Oh my God, we got to lower your estradiol, because it's not in that magical, you know, standard mean abbreviation, which is insane.
• 26:37
  Jay Campbell: And again, again, this is what this is what blows me away.
• 26:39
  Jay Campbell: The very truth of the ranges, right?
• 26:42
  Jay Campbell: And you've got Lab Corp, you've got what's the other one?
• 26:44
  Jay Campbell: Quest collab, and then there's a couple other ones now.
• 26:47
  Jay Campbell: And if you ask the governing bodies, which is the andrology deal and then the endocrinology society, what how did you guys come up with these ranges?
• 26:56
  Jay Campbell: They literally said, I'm not joking, this is a fact that oh, we just took an average man in the 50s and we measured it, and that's what we gave it to.
• 27:04
  Jay Campbell: So imagine that doctors are trying to give people or keep men, especially, in that 22 to 40 magic range from the 50s for men who aren't even on therapeutic hormones.
• 27:18
  Jay Campbell: It's absolutely insanity.
• 27:20
  Jay Campbell: So I always tell people if you're gonna go on therapeutic testosterone, do nothing else and allow your estradiol to fall to its natural level.
• 27:28
  Jay Campbell: Because again, we're all biochemically unique, as you know.
• 27:31
  Jay Campbell: So your range, it's gonna raise or it's gonna go to wherever it's gonna go, and then it's gonna level off.
• 27:35
  Jay Campbell: And if you don't have any symptoms or side effects, and again, very few guys do, again, you might have mood alteration when you first start, you might have a little water retention.
• 27:43
  Jay Campbell: The fatter you are, the more water retention you're gonna have.
• 27:46
  Jay Campbell: Because remember, aromatase, the enzyme that cleaves you know, testosterone into estrogen, is found in fat tissue.
• 27:53
  Jay Campbell: So the fatter you are, the more aromatase you're gonna have.
• 27:56
  Jay Campbell: So that's all very normal.
• 27:58
  Jay Campbell: But again, you have a medical community that doesn't really understand this very well.
• 28:02
  Jay Campbell: And so all the time they instantly panic.
• 28:05
  Jay Campbell: They either withdraw their testosterone dose or they put them on a higher dose of an AI, and that's the absolute wrong thing to do.
• 28:11
  Jay Campbell: And, you know, to your question earlier about levels, that's also getting weird because the best doctors know that they don't even care, right?
• 28:18
  Jay Campbell: Like some guy might have 1500, some guy might have 950, you know, some guy might have 1100, 1200.
• 28:26
  Jay Campbell: In the absence of symptoms and side effects, the testosterone level doesn't matter as much.
• 28:30
  Jay Campbell: It's just like, you know, one of the doctors who used to mentor me was like, Do you feel good?
• 28:35
  Jay Campbell: And do you have any symptoms or side effects?
• 28:37
  Jay Campbell: If you don't, everything is fine.
• 28:39
  Jay Campbell: I will give you a guidance range.
• 28:41
  Jay Campbell: I think free testosterone for optimized men has to be somewhere between 40 and 45.
• 28:47
  Philip Pape: Which unit is that?
• 28:48
  Jay Campbell: Because I know there's a couple that's picoliters per picograms per deciliter.
• 28:54
  Jay Campbell: And so, like, you know, most guys that I've consulted with, and there's been thousands, you know, when I see a guy who feels great, they're 42 or higher, right?
• 29:03
  Jay Campbell: I've walked around for a decade probably at 50, right?
• 29:07
  Jay Campbell: And that's just kind of where I'm at.
• 29:08
  Jay Campbell: And I'm again, I don't take that much.
• 29:10
  Jay Campbell: I take probably 140 to 160 milligrams a week.
• 29:13
  Jay Campbell: And very honest, dude, like with our new stuff, you know, the biolongevity labs, the FLGR, and the clotho, you know, clotho literally improves hormone production.
• 29:22
  Jay Campbell: So there's been times since I started clotho where I've only taken two shots a week.
• 29:27
  Jay Campbell: And so I'm only getting like 100 milligrams a week, and I feel no different.
• 29:30
  Jay Campbell: I've tested since I've been on clotho, done labs twice since I've been on clotho, and never once have I been below 50 on a free testosterone level.
• 29:38
  Jay Campbell: And trust me, there have been many weeks in the last like nine months where I've only taken two shots because I've just been traveling and you know, you just forget and stuff like that happens.
• 29:46
  Jay Campbell: So as I'm getting older, my testosterone dose is going down.
• 29:50
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, but I haven't shown from a clinical lab or you know, biomarker indication that my levels are going down.
• 29:56
  Jay Campbell: But my because of because the replacement is sufficient, you're saying.
• 29:59
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, well, or you know, it's also I think the clotho is, you know, improving hormone production.
• 30:04
  Jay Campbell: I mean, all the science shows that it does that.
• 30:06
  Jay Campbell: And so I didn't really figure that out until like last couple of months because I got my labs done again, and I'm like, you know what?
• 30:12
  Jay Campbell: I haven't even been taking three shots a week, and I'm still, you know, 50 free and like 1150 total.
• 30:17
  Jay Campbell: And I'm my my doses are a lot lower.
• 30:20
  Jay Campbell: So it has to be that.
• 30:21
  Jay Campbell: Now, obviously, I'm just giving you an opinion, but that's what I think, you know, after talking with some other people, because some other people similar to me have noticed similar things.
• 30:29
  Philip Pape: Yeah, it's funny.
• 30:29
  Philip Pape: As you were you were saying that I was looking up my last check, it was like 2021, 67 free, 600 total, which shows you that the like the the numbers can be very different.
• 30:39
  Jay Campbell: 100%.
• 30:39
  Jay Campbell: Yeah.
• 30:40
  Jay Campbell: And that and listen, it's very important for men that are watching this to know that your total, it's not a meaningless number, like I used to say, but it's not as meaningful because again, total is bound and not accessible, right?
• 30:54
  Jay Campbell: And free is bioavailable and available to be used by the body.
• 30:59
  Jay Campbell: So if you have a high total level and you have a, let's just call it an in as a suboptimal SHPG, which is sexomorm binding globulin, then that means that you really don't have a lot of free testosterone accessible.
• 31:11
  Jay Campbell: And again, you see this in a lot of skinny fat guys, guys who don't lift weights.
• 31:15
  Jay Campbell: They're gonna have like a 50 plus or 60 plus SHPG, and they'll be like 525, you know, total, and their doctor won't measure their free, and they'll be like, Oh, you're great, and they have the worst testosterone deficiency.
• 31:27
  Jay Campbell: These are, dude, these are guys that have like a seven or eight free testosterone.
• 31:31
  Jay Campbell: You see that all the time.
• 31:32
  Jay Campbell: Docs always miss that.
• 31:33
  Jay Campbell: They always miss that.
• 31:34
  Philip Pape: And what about the weekly bound?
• 31:36
  Philip Pape: I've heard of that too, right?
• 31:37
  Philip Pape: In between, does that matter, or is free is good enough to tell you?
• 31:40
  Jay Campbell: Free.
• 31:40
  Jay Campbell: I mean, it does, but for all you really have to understand is you're free.
• 31:44
  Jay Campbell: And and and and again, if you have a free, and again, that picograms per deciliter magic number, and you're below 25, you absolutely have a testosterone deficiency.
• 31:53
  Jay Campbell: Now, most doctors won't tell you that because they're gonna tell you that like 15 to 25 is normal, but there wants to be normal in today's.
• 32:00
  Philip Pape: No, we don't want to be normal, man.
• 32:01
  Philip Pape: Not listening to this show.
• 32:03
  Philip Pape: So so I always I always have this question about the symptom thing, and it keeps coming up.
• 32:07
  Philip Pape: It it's it's one thing if you have obvious symptoms, okay, right?
• 32:11
  Philip Pape: But what if you don't know that you have symptoms?
• 32:13
  Philip Pape: And what I mean by that is there, I mean, we live in a world today, like you said, in the modern world where people are probably walking around far suboptimal, yes, but it's normal to them because that's all they've known.
• 32:23
  Philip Pape: And so, how do you know?
• 32:25
  Philip Pape: How do you know?
• 32:26
  Jay Campbell: I love the question because, dude, so many people literally do walk around in a default state of suffering.
• 32:31
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, so the truth is how you know is if you the number one symptom of obviously uh a hormone deficiency in both men and women is brain fog, right?
• 32:41
  Jay Campbell: So I think the best way to say it is like if you feel like you have to take a nap at 130 to three o'clock every single day, regardless of what you eat, you know, a lot of people will debate me on this and they'll be like, oh, but that's just because they had a big carb lunch or something like that, right?
• 32:56
  Jay Campbell: And it's just serotonin release.
• 32:57
  Jay Campbell: It's like, no, if you actually feel like you have to take a nap between one and three, or you know, say two and four, then it's likely that you have, you know, suboptimal dopamine levels.
• 33:07
  Jay Campbell: And this is always due to a deficiency in hormones.
• 33:10
  Jay Campbell: So that's a number one symptom.
• 33:12
  Jay Campbell: And, you know, to your point, a lot of other guys, they when you talk about this with them, and I know like this in my own family and people in my inner circle who aren't doing what we're doing and aren't familiar with all this, they'll be like, if you even talk about this with them, they freak out and they're like, bro, everything works down there so good.
• 33:29
  Jay Campbell: Like it's always this like manhood thing.
• 33:31
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:32
  Jay Campbell: No way, bro.
• 33:33
  Jay Campbell: And it's like I always want to tell people, like, look, man, a therapeutic hormone deficiency has, or I mean, sorry, hormone deficiency has absolutely zero to do with sex drive and sexual function.
• 33:42
  Jay Campbell: That's the last thing normally to go.
• 33:45
  Jay Campbell: So if you're gonna rank number one is brain fog, number two is a depressive or lethargic attitude, and then number three is energy, right?
• 33:54
  Jay Campbell: And again, I always say this to anybody nowadays if you have a belly and you're not hormonally optimized, you can just automatically consider yourself deficient.
• 34:02
  Jay Campbell: Because remember, all that visceral fat in the belly and that insulin resistance due to that visceral fat is, as you and I already discussed, is causing a cytokine storm all the time, right there.
• 34:15
  Jay Campbell: And guess what?
• 34:15
  Jay Campbell: It shuts down sexual function, it shuts down gonatic and spermatogenesis.
• 34:20
  Jay Campbell: So there's just no way that you have optimal hormones if you have a giant belly.
• 34:24
  Jay Campbell: And the same thing for women, and by the way, you spoke about endrometeosis.
• 34:29
  Jay Campbell: By the way, dude, do you know that there's actually a peptide now that's treating that?
• 34:32
  Jay Campbell: Have you heard about that yet?
• 34:34
  Philip Pape: Wow, maybe, because yeah, tell me about it.
• 34:36
  Jay Campbell: Well, I mean, we can get into it in a second.
• 34:38
  Jay Campbell: I I'm not like an expert on that, but I've been, you know, we're but we're contemplating selling it.
• 34:42
  Jay Campbell: But here's the here's what I can tell about this.
• 34:44
  Jay Campbell: Most women, and this is sad, by the way, but most women who have hysterectomies, endometriosis, fibroids, bro, it's all visceral fat buildup and insulin resistance from having too much belly fat.
• 35:00
  Jay Campbell: Now remember, women don't normally carry belly fat, they carry it in their hips, their glutes, but they do carry it in the vulva region.
• 35:08
  Jay Campbell: You've seen women where they have that big burst, right?
• 35:11
  Jay Campbell: Like right below where their shorts are.
• 35:13
  Jay Campbell: That's because they've got tons of visceral, hard, resistant body fat in that area.
• 35:19
  Jay Campbell: And that's what actually causes all of these tumors, these fibroids, the again, the endometriosis.
• 35:25
  Jay Campbell: Nobody's talking about this in medicine because they just don't understand the inflammatory pathways in the ways they should.
• 35:30
  Jay Campbell: There's some people.
• 35:32
  Jay Campbell: But honestly, if you get a woman to lose that hard visceral fat, and it's not easy, it's absolutely not easy.
• 35:38
  Jay Campbell: You know, they got a cardio, insulin-controlled living, hopefully a GLP, you know, a two or stage or three stage, and then obviously hormone optimization, and you get them moving, they can get rid of a lot of that fat.
• 35:49
  Jay Campbell: But almost all these people never are told this.
• 35:52
  Jay Campbell: And they're literally said, Hey, you got to have surgery.
• 35:54
  Jay Campbell: We got to remove all this, we got to remove all this tissue.
• 35:57
  Jay Campbell: And then they just cut it all out of them.
• 35:58
  Jay Campbell: And all of it, dude, I mean, I don't want to say all of it, but most of it is just very hard visceral body fat that has been in there because again, they were just, you know, overweight, you know, after their second child, they never lost the weight, you know, they call it the baby fat or whatever, and it just builds up, and that's what's causing all those things down there.
• 36:15
  Jay Campbell: So, yeah, it is very interesting.
• 36:17
  Jay Campbell: But it's, I'm telling you, if you see a woman like that or you see a man with a belly, if they're not hormonally optimized or working towards it, the likelihood that they are is extremely high.
• 36:26
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I want to get back to visceral fat because that's fat, that's a fascinating area to target.
• 36:30
  Philip Pape: Endo 205, I think is what it's called.
• 36:32
  Philip Pape: I looked it up.
• 36:32
  Philip Pape: And it's interesting with endometriosis, that's a whole separate topic.
• 36:35
  Philip Pape: I know there's also a genetic component because there are young women who can have it too.
• 36:38
  Philip Pape: So there's probably different factors.
• 36:40
  Philip Pape: But going back to your comment about belly fat injections, do you then recommend not injecting it there to avoid those symptoms, or is that just I don't, I do.
• 36:48
  Jay Campbell: I that's a great question.
• 36:49
  Jay Campbell: So that's a big failure for most physicians.
• 36:52
  Jay Campbell: Because remember, at the end of the day, most people are injecting into their belly because they don't feel it.
• 36:56
  Jay Campbell: So, you know, the better solution is going to be the upper deltoid, the back of the arm, the upper gluteal fat pad, right?
• 37:03
  Jay Campbell: And the you know, buttocks region.
• 37:05
  Jay Campbell: And for people that can handle quad injections, those are great.
• 37:08
  Jay Campbell: I cannot handle a quad injection.
• 37:09
  Jay Campbell: I have my whole life.
• 37:11
  Philip Pape: That's how I inject my that's another thing I take.
• 37:13
  Philip Pape: So it's funny you mentioned that.
• 37:14
  Jay Campbell: Dude, you're gonna laugh because my entire life, like even peptide injections, like if I inject my quad, I have complete debilitating DOMS for literally 36%.
• 37:23
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, and it all happens within six hours.
• 37:25
  Jay Campbell: Now, I have never understood, I've heard from many other guys that say the same thing.
• 37:29
  Jay Campbell: I think my legs are so muscular and so vascular and so lean that it just causes some sort of weird, like inflammatory reaction.
• 37:37
  Philip Pape: Yes, I just keep that extra layer of fat.
• 37:39
  Philip Pape: It does.
• 37:40
  Jay Campbell: I mean, honestly, dude, it's crazy.
• 37:41
  Jay Campbell: I mean, you know, I was gonna basketball player before, and so my legs were always just really, really muscular.
• 37:46
  Jay Campbell: But I mean I've injected, you're gonna laugh at this.
• 37:49
  Jay Campbell: I've injected into skin, I'm pulling it right now, the lax skin, like right around my kneecap, and thinking, you know, that's not muscular, you know, it's nothing.
• 37:56
  Jay Campbell: And dude, the same happens to me.
• 37:58
  Jay Campbell: Like six hours later, I'm like, God, I wish I wouldn't have done that.
• 38:01
  Jay Campbell: So I just have this weird effect in my legs, but anywhere else in my body, I don't feel anything late.
• 38:06
  Jay Campbell: Right.
• 38:07
  Jay Campbell: So I mean, we're all different.
• 38:08
  Jay Campbell: Again, we're all options.
• 38:09
  Jay Campbell: It sounds like you have options at least.
• 38:11
  Jay Campbell: I know we totally do, but you know, that's that is to me.
• 38:15
  Jay Campbell: I'm glad you asked that.
• 38:16
  Jay Campbell: I don't think any person who is, let's say, 20% or higher body fat and specifically storing it in the belly section should be injecting there.
• 38:24
  Jay Campbell: You should be injecting in areas that are more intermuscular so that you don't have that inflammatory response.
• 38:29
  Philip Pape: Now you mentioned the symptoms and you said lowest is sexual function.
• 38:32
  Philip Pape: And I think there was like if you look at these consensus statements and these position statements and stuff.
• 38:37
  Philip Pape: I I some somewhere I came across, maybe it was in your work about women and the use of testosterone being linked to the if you have low sexual desire.
• 38:47
  Philip Pape: Like only if you have that should you take it.
• 38:48
  Philip Pape: Otherwise, don't take it.
• 38:50
  Philip Pape: Have you heard that?
• 38:51
  Philip Pape: I I mean, I don't think so.
• 38:53
  Jay Campbell: I mean, let me let me just say this.
• 38:54
  Philip Pape: It sounds ridiculous, especially after you just said it's a good idea.
• 38:56
  Jay Campbell: Well, I will put it this way women respond to hormones much better than men do.
• 39:01
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 39:01
  Jay Campbell: And you know, again, one of the mentors who taught me a lot about this stuff used to say that giving a woman hormones is like giving a dry plant water.
• 39:08
  Jay Campbell: So you just have to give them the per the correct amount, right?
• 39:13
  Jay Campbell: And again, I always say this to people like if you understand biology and sexual differentiation, there's no difference between a man and a woman other than the amount of testosterone that they were exposed in in utero.
• 39:23
  Jay Campbell: That's it, right?
• 39:24
  Jay Campbell: So if you give a woman who's now a you know an X X chromosome and you give her a bunch of testosterone at 30, you'll turn her into a dude.
• 39:32
  Jay Campbell: And that's exactly what happens, right?
• 39:34
  Jay Campbell: So it's like, let's just be very clear.
• 39:36
  Jay Campbell: You know, a woman's clitoris becomes a penis.
• 39:39
  Jay Campbell: I mean, I don't understand why people don't understand this.
• 39:41
  Jay Campbell: It's very, very simple stuff.
• 39:43
  Jay Campbell: But if you give a woman a very low surgically precise dose of testosterone, they're not going to have any sexual dysfunction.
• 39:51
  Jay Campbell: And this is always going in your 30s, 40s, 50s.
• 39:53
  Jay Campbell: I mean, my wife is 54 and she takes two, I want to say four milligram shots of testosterone a week.
• 40:00
  Jay Campbell: Same type that I use, but it's in a 15 milligrams per cc, you know, versus mine is 200 milligrams per cc.
• 40:06
  Jay Campbell: And dude, she is just as sexually, you know, as efficient as she was in her 20s before she even knew me.
• 40:13
  Jay Campbell: Our sex life is amazing.
• 40:14
  Jay Campbell: So it's like there's no reason that women have to suffer, you know, sexually from a form of performance decline in their 40s, 50s, and 60s, but they just have to be hormonally optimized.
• 40:24
  Jay Campbell: And as you know, the WHI destroyed the hormone awareness and say, just call it understanding of physicians in America about females.
• 40:33
  Jay Campbell: And there's just so many women that are not being treated.
• 40:37
  Jay Campbell: I mean, dude, I I mean, you know, I have a huge breast cancer and all that.
• 40:41
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, dude, I have a huge private membership group now, and most of them are women.
• 40:44
  Jay Campbell: There's like 520 women in the group out of like 870 people, so it's more women than men now.
• 40:49
  Jay Campbell: And a lot of them came from Mind Pump.
• 40:51
  Jay Campbell: And, you know, these people, dude, when I hear their stories, it's sickening.
• 40:55
  Jay Campbell: Like the doctors won't let them because they miss the window.
• 40:59
  Jay Campbell: I mean, I have heard because of the WHI, it blows me away.
• 41:02
  Jay Campbell: But I've never seen a woman in my entire life who was 50 or older, who started therapy correctly.
• 41:11
  Jay Campbell: There's lots that don't start correctly, who has not said it was the greatest thing that ever happened to them.
• 41:15
  Jay Campbell: That that, you know, that they got their sexual function back, they were able to get, you know, wet and moist and you know, all the things that women want, you know, come back when you hormonally optimize them, but way too many are not.
• 41:28
  Jay Campbell: And by the way, I need to say this too like a lot of the doctors that do work with women don't give them testosterone.
• 41:33
  Jay Campbell: No, they give them literally estradiol and progesterone and dry them out.
• 41:37
  Jay Campbell: It's like the most insane thing.
• 41:38
  Jay Campbell: It's like, especially women that have had their, you know, been castrated, they've had their ovaries removed, right?
• 41:44
  Jay Campbell: So they can't produce testosterone now.
• 41:46
  Jay Campbell: And now you're just giving them progesterone and estradiol, you're making it worse.
• 41:49
  Jay Campbell: They don't even understand basic biological cascades.
• 41:52
  Jay Campbell: It's absolutely insane.
• 41:53
  Jay Campbell: So many women say my doctor won't give me testosterone.
• 41:56
  Jay Campbell: It's like, how is that possible?
• 41:57
  Jay Campbell: You know, but they just don't understand.
• 41:59
  Jay Campbell: They're afraid, like you said, cancer, the WHI, there's just so much misinformation.
• 42:04
  Philip Pape: So let's kind of pivot a little bit here because we talked a little bit about training, lifting, talked a little bit about visceral fat.
• 42:10
  Philip Pape: So I kind of want to attack it from both angles.
• 42:12
  Philip Pape: One angle is okay, so powerful is muscle, building muscle, the training stimulus itself for building muscle and just carrying around that extra body, you know, lean mass.
• 42:22
  Philip Pape: And then conversely, where does cardio come in here?
• 42:25
  Philip Pape: And I want to target specifically some of the recent research on like certain types of sprinting for like peri-impostmenopausal women showing that it can reduce visceral fat.
• 42:35
  Philip Pape: So maybe tackle both of those in this context.
• 42:38
  Jay Campbell: Yeah.
• 42:38
  Jay Campbell: So first off, I have a new book.
• 42:39
  Jay Campbell: The book is called Living Leaner, Longer, Stronger.
• 42:43
  Jay Campbell: And it's definitely my seminal work.
• 42:45
  Jay Campbell: It was actually written by a ghostwriter.
• 42:46
  Jay Campbell: What you know, my team has been involved in it to make sure that it has my edge and everything in it.
• 42:50
  Jay Campbell: But it's written for the mainstream, bro.
• 42:52
  Jay Campbell: And I've never written a book for the mainstream previously, right?
• 42:54
  Jay Campbell: So anybody who ever, you know, has written read any of my books knows they're very advanced, right?
• 42:59
  Jay Campbell: So this book is written for the mainstream to talk about what you just mentioned, which is like building muscle, right?
• 43:04
  Jay Campbell: So I can definitely say this this statistically provable fact, the leaner you are, the longer you will live.
• 43:10
  Jay Campbell: That is undeniable.
• 43:12
  Jay Campbell: And a lot of people hear that and they're like, oh, well, what does that mean?
• 43:15
  Jay Campbell: And it means like, well, you got to build muscle.
• 43:17
  Jay Campbell: You can't be leaned if you don't have muscle.
• 43:20
  Jay Campbell: And then people will be like, well, that's not true, Jay, because in the blue zones, you know, with all these Japanese, they're not muscular.
• 43:26
  Jay Campbell: That's not true.
• 43:28
  Jay Campbell: Because if you would measure their trunk body fat and their, you know, again, call it composition, you would find out that they were very low body fat.
• 43:36
  Jay Campbell: So again, this is very simple stuff, right?
• 43:38
  Jay Campbell: The more muscle and the leaner you are, the less inflammation you have.
• 43:41
  Jay Campbell: Inflammation is what leads to all of the degradation of cells.
• 43:45
  Jay Campbell: Cell degradation leads to inflammation.
• 43:47
  Jay Campbell: Inflammation is what causes the diseases of aging.
• 43:50
  Jay Campbell: It's very, very simple stuff, but people, you know, overthink it.
• 43:53
  Jay Campbell: But building muscle is the number one longevity thing that anyone can do.
• 43:57
  Jay Campbell: There's no other biohack, no peptide.
• 43:59
  Jay Campbell: No GLP, no FLGR, none of these things.
• 44:03
  Jay Campbell: You have to be able to train at an intensity that A builds muscle and B does not overtax your skeletal, you know, frame.
• 44:11
  Jay Campbell: Right.
• 44:12
  Jay Campbell: So I think a lot of people you were talking about earlier, a lot of people, sadly, who do train don't train productively, right?
• 44:19
  Jay Campbell: Go to the gym four days a week, five days a week, some are going six, and they're doing Instagram or TikTok influencer training protocols.
• 44:30
  Jay Campbell: They're over-training, they're doing too many reps, too many sets, they're never actually, you know, taxing their muscles and what going to what I call positive muscle fiber.
• 44:37
  Jay Campbell: So without saying that, you know, if you understand how to productively train, and that's obviously to recruit, you know, muscle fibers to fail, you know, at a level that, you know, actually, you know, basically creates stimulus and builds muscle over time, um, there's nothing better.
• 44:54
  Jay Campbell: There's literally nothing better than that.
• 44:55
  Jay Campbell: Right.
• 44:56
  Jay Campbell: So I think that people, if there's if there's a take-home, it's like people as they age have to understand the coordination, the neurological aspect of training.
• 45:07
  Jay Campbell: And if you don't, because you're never an athlete, and I realize a lot of people were not, then you have to hire a coach who can get the rest.
• 45:15
  Jay Campbell: And bro, you know this.
• 45:16
  Philip Pape: It's a skill, it's a skill, it's the most important skill you have.
• 45:19
  Jay Campbell: But way too many people watch videos, especially in today's day and age, and then think that they know they have any clue what they're doing, and they don't.
• 45:27
  Jay Campbell: And you know, you and I know this.
• 45:29
  Jay Campbell: Like, I'm one year away from never going to a gym again.
• 45:31
  Jay Campbell: I'm building an amazing gym in my house that just the house that I just bought down here in Florida, it's gonna cost me a fortune, but it's like my custom thing, and I'm gonna just go in there, walk 20 yards from wherever I live, you know, and go into my gym.
• 45:44
  Jay Campbell: But like, I for decades I've been going to gyms all around the world and I watch, and it's sad, it's absolutely insane.
• 45:54
  Jay Campbell: And again, as you know, you can't intervene, right?
• 45:57
  Philip Pape: No, no, no, you can't no, no, that's bad etiquette.
• 45:59
  Philip Pape: You can't go teach unsolicited.
• 46:01
  Philip Pape: Yeah, exactly.
• 46:02
  Philip Pape: You never intervene.
• 46:02
  Philip Pape: I mean, I see personal trainers screwing their clients up all the time, and I'm like, man, if I could just show you for five seconds, no, no, no, 100%.
• 46:09
  Jay Campbell: And you know, the axiom, you know, the teacher appears when the student is ready, right?
• 46:13
  Jay Campbell: Like that's they gotta be ready, right?
• 46:15
  Jay Campbell: So you never intervene, but it's amazing to see people going to gyms.
• 46:19
  Jay Campbell: And bro, by the way, it's worse now.
• 46:21
  Jay Campbell: Younger people today are doing the most insane things.
• 46:25
  Jay Campbell: Like, I mean, it blows my mind how bad it's getting because again, the proliferation of videos.
• 46:30
  Jay Campbell: People are watching well, you know, fit people with great genetics, younger, who are doing their crazy and still building muscle, and thinking, oh, I can do this too.
• 46:39
  Philip Pape: And so you're saying that it's not that they're watching videos for form, they're watching videos on programming and exercise selection and everything that's ridiculous, too.
• 46:47
  Philip Pape: Exactly.
• 46:48
  Philip Pape: Right.
• 46:48
  Philip Pape: Because I was gonna say, like, what you know, when I first learned to lift, and that wasn't too many years ago, you know, I read starting strength like three times.
• 46:55
  Philip Pape: I watched the videos, and I still had to go to a coach, you know, for one hour to fix all the things that I couldn't quite get.
• 47:02
  Jay Campbell: Because it really is a skill, you gotta like you know, people like us learned from mentors, we learned from strength coaches or masters, and so many people today literally learn from TikTok and YouTube, bro.
• 47:13
  Jay Campbell: And that's not a way to learn.
• 47:14
  Jay Campbell: If again, like I said, if you're not an athlete and you have not practiced with skillful mentors or coaches who taught you the, you know, the format, the training, the actual neurological, the you know, biomechanics.
• 47:26
  Jay Campbell: You can't just start watching videos and doing it.
• 47:29
  Jay Campbell: It doesn't work that way.
• 47:30
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:30
  Philip Pape: And you know, it's funny because on this show we talk a lot about the principles like you mentioned, well, mechanical tension and other principles.
• 47:37
  Philip Pape: And you can only do that to a certain extent, right?
• 47:40
  Philip Pape: Because it's abstract, it's theoretical.
• 47:41
  Philip Pape: You've got to get in there.
• 47:42
  Philip Pape: And even when you try to describe it, it's not good enough.
• 47:44
  Philip Pape: So it's a skill you have to put your hands on, just like gardening.
• 47:47
  Philip Pape: You can't become a good gardener, you can't become a good musician, whatever, without doing it.
• 47:51
  Jay Campbell: What is rept is kept, right?
• 47:54
  Philip Pape: There you go.
• 47:54
  Philip Pape: So yeah.
• 47:55
  Philip Pape: So, all right, so muscle is a whole thing.
• 47:57
  Philip Pape: That's three other episodes we can get into on that connection to this.
• 48:01
  Philip Pape: But real quick on the sprinting thing.
• 48:02
  Philip Pape: So in the visceral fat, yeah, there there seems to be.
• 48:05
  Philip Pape: I know Bill Campbell actually reviewed one of the studies recently that looked at women and sprinting, and they compared it to, I think, steady state cardio and also more of a hit protocol, something like that.
• 48:14
  Philip Pape: I might be making nonsense up and found kind of an interesting drop in visceral fat when measured through, I don't know if it's DEXA or MRI or something from sprinting.
• 48:23
  Philip Pape: Have you heard this?
• 48:24
  Philip Pape: I have.
• 48:25
  Jay Campbell: So here's my take.
• 48:27
  Jay Campbell: So everything, so intensity of cardio is always going to be relevant to fuel source, right?
• 48:35
  Jay Campbell: So if a person is, you know, fasting and they're doing high intensity cardio with no muscle glycogen, bad, you know, if they're a keto or carnivore bro and they keep their, you know, car their muscle glycogen levels low all the time because they think that you know, carbs are the devil or the bad guy or whatever, you know, and they're doing you know, high-intensity sprinting or any kind of high intensity, also bad, because I always tell people like we have to train or lift or eat relative to our energetic demand, right?
• 49:04
  Jay Campbell: So for us, mostly bodybuilders, gotta have carbs, right?
• 49:08
  Jay Campbell: Like I know people debate that there's keto bodybuilders or carnivore bodybuilders and blah, blah, blah.
• 49:12
  Jay Campbell: But the reality is, is like our bodies are designed to handle carbs, fats, and proteins.
• 49:16
  Jay Campbell: Give them the carbs when their body is preferably gonna preferably or preferentially gonna refuel from a glycogen standpoint.
• 49:24
  Jay Campbell: So I think that all forms of cardio have merit, and I think they're all you know, especially productive.
• 49:30
  Jay Campbell: I think the older a person is, the less likely high-intensity ballistic movement is beneficial because the risk to injury is much greater.
• 49:42
  Jay Campbell: And the reason that is, again, is a guy who's 55, who used to do all sorts of HIT in his 30s and his early 40s, you don't really have the synovial fluid in the joint caps when you're in your 50s that you had in your early 40s and your late 30s.
• 49:55
  Jay Campbell: So if you're gonna do high intensity, which I still think is awesome and productive, you got to do it in the right place.
• 50:01
  Jay Campbell: You know, when you're for sure protected, you know, the floor is sand, the floor is rubberized.
• 50:07
  Jay Campbell: You know what I'm saying?
• 50:08
  Philip Pape: Like I should have clarified, by the way, the study was on bikes.
• 50:12
  Philip Pape: There you go.
• 50:12
  Philip Pape: So yeah, so so I'm sprinting on bikes with like two.
• 50:17
  Jay Campbell: Yeah.
• 50:17
  Jay Campbell: And by the way, that's what I do, right?
• 50:19
  Jay Campbell: So I have literally a life cycle over here, and then I also have one of these.
• 50:23
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, you make a good point though about injury and and all that.
• 50:26
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, so I mean, but dude, I see this all the time.
• 50:28
  Jay Campbell: It's important.
• 50:28
  Jay Campbell: Like a lot of people in their late 40s and 50s, early to mid-50s, like my age now, are still keeping up with the Joneses, they're still doing that they did in their 30s and 40s that they got away with because they could, that they're they can't now.
• 50:43
  Jay Campbell: And what I mean is, you know, sprinting outside, you know, on asphalt, you know, doing stuff like that, going upstairs, you know, at stadiums and stuff like that, you know.
• 50:52
  Jay Campbell: And and again, these are great movements for anybody who's younger and can handle that kind of wear and tear and that impact on their body.
• 50:59
  Jay Campbell: But dude, I'm telling you, running the stairs at 52, it just takes one we wobble, and your back is compressed and you've got a vertebral compression issue, or you have worse, you know, a laminectomy in your future with a disk.
• 51:12
  Jay Campbell: So you have to be very cautious.
• 51:14
  Jay Campbell: And that's why, like what you just said is perfect.
• 51:16
  Jay Campbell: Like, you know, moderate intensity to steady state with HIT mixed in, you know, on something that is not ballistic.
• 51:24
  Jay Campbell: A bike, an ergometer, you know, obviously a treadmill with a 40 degree incline is amazing, but you just you just again, and clearly I'm talking about people in their you know, 50s and older, right?
• 51:36
  Jay Campbell: I think you got to start really thinking at 44 or 45 about giving up heavy deadlifting, heavy squatting, you know, axial plate loaded stuff.
• 51:45
  Jay Campbell: You can't do that kind of stuff, even if you're strong enough to do it, because again, it just takes one you know flicker and you're out of the gym for six to eight months, and that's what you don't want.
• 51:56
  Philip Pape: My community would be a little mixed on that, Jay.
• 51:58
  Philip Pape: I'll be honest.
• 51:58
  Philip Pape: Because there are there are a lot of guys in their 70s.
• 52:02
  Jay Campbell: I know they're media that gotta keep lifting heavy.
• 52:04
  Jay Campbell: But dude, until you put yourself in the hospital and can't train for eight to nine months, yeah.
• 52:08
  Jay Campbell: I listen, I it's true, it's a starter and a heavy deadlifter guy.
• 52:12
  Jay Campbell: And I stopped at 45 and I I met a chiropractor, I can't remember his name now because he was in Southern California.
• 52:18
  Jay Campbell: This is going back about 10 or 12 years ago, but he's showing me videos of really strong people and what happened, you know, when they were squatting three plates and like what's happening to their lower spine and all this.
• 52:29
  Jay Campbell: And look, I know that people want to keep doing this, and mentally they feel amazing, but I'm just telling you, just know the, you know, be cautious because understand that the wear and tear that you're putting on your spine or the wear and tear that you're putting in your neck or you know, other places can be very, very destructive over time.
• 52:45
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and combined with your earlier comment about skill and form and everything, like the more you get into that regime, the more important that is.
• 52:52
  Philip Pape: If you are going to do stuff like that, you just have to be so dialed in and doing it right.
• 53:02
  Jay Campbell: It's just the amount that you're doing.
• 53:04
  Jay Campbell: And I see way too many people attempting to do too much and they're putting their body at risk.
• 53:10
  Jay Campbell: And that's all I'm saying.
• 53:11
  Jay Campbell: I mean, all those moves are productive and amazing for anatomical alignment and you know, just again, axial loading and all that stuff.
• 53:18
  Jay Campbell: But like, there's definitely a risk, especially with what you just said, especially if your form's not good.
• 53:23
  Philip Pape: Yep.
• 53:23
  Philip Pape: All right, let's wrap it up with a very tiny topic called GLP1s, which you you touched on a little bit here and there with the microdosing.
• 53:30
  Philip Pape: Sure.
• 53:30
  Philip Pape: And, you know, you've got the the single, the dual, and the triple agonist now, the semaglitite and the schizepatite, and now the depends on how you want to pronounce it, retagitite or riditride, goes both ways.
• 53:40
  Philip Pape: And the question is like, who should be even taking them?
• 53:43
  Philip Pape: You mentioned morbidly obese or obese people using it as a tool.
• 53:47
  Philip Pape: That makes total sense, right?
• 53:48
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 53:48
  Philip Pape: We had Jamie Sellzer on here, who was also a mind pump, like you were, and he was like, I think the only guest they've ever had on the show.
• 53:54
  Philip Pape: Um, and he went from like 700 pounds to 300 pounds on GLP1 while lifting and walking and doing all the right things.
• 54:02
  Philip Pape: So, just like what's your philosophy on it in general?
• 54:04
  Philip Pape: We, you know, we don't bash any of that here.
• 54:06
  Philip Pape: These are all great tools.
• 54:07
  Philip Pape: And then where do you think things are going with all of this?
• 54:10
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, so it's a definitely great question and a great subject.
• 54:14
  Jay Campbell: The tools are amazing, but they're literally in two years, Philip, they'll be useless or they'll be forgotten because that's how great they'll be overtaken, you're saying.
• 54:22
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, there is stuff in the pipeline right now.
• 54:25
  Jay Campbell: And by the way, this is in my chapter, I think it's chapter seven of the book that I released in February of this year called Metabolic Awakening with GLP peptides.
• 54:32
  Jay Campbell: But the truth is is that we have a chapter in that book that's called the pipeline.
• 54:36
  Jay Campbell: And dude, the stuff that's coming, like you can't, you you really can't comprehend it.
• 54:40
  Jay Campbell: I mean, I tell people this all the time like in two years, there will be stage five molecules that will do everything.
• 54:48
  Jay Campbell: Like you, it will increase brown fat.
• 54:50
  Jay Campbell: I mean, look, dude, we already have a tool right now from BLL, FLGR242, that absolutely builds mass, floods your system with myokines, inhibits myostatin.
• 54:59
  Jay Campbell: And in the same process, it's also lipolytic, right?
• 55:03
  Jay Campbell: So it's burning fat.
• 55:04
  Jay Campbell: So if you're a man and you take five milligrams to 10 milligrams a week and you train and you eat right, you're gonna put on somewhere between six and eight skeletal pounds of mass.
• 55:12
  Jay Campbell: And I don't give a shit who you are genetic, natty, on TRT, it doesn't matter.
• 55:15
  Jay Campbell: Women can even do better because as you realize, women have less myostatin inhibition naturally, right?
• 55:22
  Jay Campbell: So you give them a little of this and you push them over the edge.
• 55:24
  Jay Campbell: So imagine that tool, you know, embedded in a four or five stage agonist, GLP, which, like I said, will activate brown fat.
• 55:33
  Jay Campbell: So you're gonna have tools that will make genetic mutants, you know, in the bodybuilding.
• 55:38
  Philip Pape: So you can sit on the couch and just become a bodybuilding.
• 55:40
  Philip Pape: Although there's a lot, I'm joking, but you still have to train.
• 55:43
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:43
  Jay Campbell: But let's just put it this way there will not be, nobody will have to suffer like they do now in bodybuilding competitions, you know, to diet, you know, to hardcore, you know, do all that stuff they do at the end.
• 55:56
  Jay Campbell: So like if you're a genetic mutant and you understand how, and again, not you, but your coach understands how to manipulate these tools and and utilize these tools to get you to go from let's say, you know, let's say you're 290 on stage, and you when you start your you know, your your shred, you're 320.
• 56:15
  Jay Campbell: And I mean, you know, before that, that was grueling work, and it's not anymore.
• 56:20
  Jay Campbell: And and I can honestly tell you that it will not be any work in two years.
• 56:25
  Jay Campbell: Like literally, if you're a genetic mutant, you will do these things.
• 56:29
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, you're sure you'll still train and be, you know, as hard as you can, but you won't be, you know, dieting down and sacrificing and you know, eating nothing but tilapia and broccoli.
• 56:40
  Jay Campbell: You know what I mean?
• 56:40
  Jay Campbell: So focus more on the lifting side.
• 56:42
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, I mean, I mean, the truth is that you know, obesity should be eradicated.
• 56:47
  Jay Campbell: Yeah, and what I mean by that is only and and and I don't think it will, but it should be, right?
• 56:52
  Jay Campbell: Because the tools are there.
• 56:53
  Jay Campbell: I mean, listen, retitrutide can eradicate obesity right now, but they won't make them affordable.
• 56:58
  Jay Campbell: So it's up to you know, educators like us, other physicians and clinical, you know, educators, to teach people that they're tools and that they need to be used appropriately.
• 57:07
  Jay Campbell: And obviously, microdosing them with all the things, you know, again, all the things that we are all talking about here with training and cardio and you know, eating correctly and getting enough sleep and mitigating email.
• 57:17
  Jay Campbell: All those things are most important always.
• 57:19
  Jay Campbell: They're the biggest tools and the biggest levers.
• 57:21
  Jay Campbell: But the rest of these newer things, when used correctly, especially as they get better, are going to be the ultimate, you know, game changer.
• 57:28
  Jay Campbell: I mean, they really will be cheat codes, dude.
• 57:30
  Jay Campbell: 100%.
• 57:31
  Philip Pape: Man, we'll see where it all goes.
• 57:32
  Philip Pape: And so I guess for those listening, there are there's a lot of tools out there.
• 57:36
  Philip Pape: We want to send them your way and say hello and check out your stuff.
• 57:40
  Philip Pape: We'll we'll definitely point to some of their books, but where's like the main place we should send people?
• 57:44
  Jay Campbell: For sure, man.
• 57:45
  Jay Campbell: So for free information, jcampbell.com.
• 57:48
  Jay Campbell: There's so much.
• 57:48
  Jay Campbell: I think we're now in the top four sites in the world for you know information related to peptides, bioregulators, small molecules, and it's all free, of course.
• 57:57
  Jay Campbell: If they want to buy any of the amazing products that we talked about today, we don't sell any GLPs because we don't play that game on biolongevity.
• 58:03
  Jay Campbell: But you know, we have FLGR, we have Clotho, we do have a product that's a small molecule that's similar to GLPs coming.
• 58:10
  Jay Campbell: It's called Lepto3GR.
• 58:11
  Jay Campbell: And it will be a what we call a super retitrutide, but it doesn't compete in the GLP specific peptide pathway or patent chain, but it will be a small molecule that will help people actually burn fat, build muscle, obviously combined if with all the other things that we talked about today, or the other tools like therapeutic testosterone, et cetera.
• 58:28
  Jay Campbell: So that would be at biolongevitylabs.com.
• 58:30
  Jay Campbell: If you want me to make you an affiliate, I'm happy to do that.
• 58:33
  Jay Campbell: You know, we'll create an affiliate code for you and they'll give them 15% off.
• 58:36
  Jay Campbell: We're always running sales.
• 58:37
  Jay Campbell: You know, the peptide world is very commoditized right now.
• 58:40
  Jay Campbell: So, you know, if you have a great product, you got to obviously incentivize people to purchase.
• 58:44
  Jay Campbell: And then we have a landing page for podcasts.
• 58:46
  Jay Campbell: It's jcampbell.com forward slash free dash info.
• 58:49
  Jay Campbell: And at that place, you can get every single book I've ever written as a downloadable PDF for free.
• 58:54
  Jay Campbell: And eventually Living Leader Long or Stronger will be there too.
• 58:57
  Philip Pape: That's awesome.
• 58:58
  Philip Pape: All right.
• 58:58
  Philip Pape: So we'll we'll put all those in the show notes.
• 59:00
  Philip Pape: I'm not gonna repeat them all here and get folks a discount too to buy a longevity labs.
• 59:06
  Philip Pape: Man, it's been a pleasure.
• 59:07
  Philip Pape: I mean, we just barely scratched the surface.
• 59:08
  Philip Pape: I know we did, so folks check out Jay and look, just Google him.
• 59:11
  Philip Pape: You'll see you'll find him.
• 59:12
  Philip Pape: He's been on Mind Pump and so many other shows.
• 59:14
  Philip Pape: Thanks for coming on, Jay.
• 59:15
  Philip Pape: It's been a pleasure.
• 59:16
  Jay Campbell: Well, I appreciate you having me and I'm really am grateful for this call.
• 59:18
  Jay Campbell: It was awesome.
• 59:19
  Philip Pape: Awesome.