Latest / Skin Anarchy / Ginger King, Cosmetic Chemist and Allure Beauty Awards Judge , Interview

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Ginger King, Cosmetic Chemist and Allure Beauty Awards Judge , Interview · Skin Anarchy

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Skill Care Anarchy.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is Ekta, and today I have with me Cosmetic Chemist, Author, Allure Beauty Judge, and many other hats that she wears.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Ginger King.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to the show, Ginger.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for making the time.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to have you.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's my pleasure to be here.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's such an honor hosting you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would love it if you could start us off and tell us how you um, you know, got into beauty and how you got into the industry and what your background is.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually born into beauty because my mom was the first woman.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: She brought Shado from Japan to Taiwan back in the 60s.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time, I mean, I was really just like a baby.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't really being influenced until later on I realized it's actually the beauty is in my blood.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So when I came to America when I was 16, I started to like to play with makeup.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Originally, I wanted to become a makeup artist, but because of my Asian background, uh, I was discouraged because I need to go to college if I don't have a PhD, at least a master's degree.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I said, fine, I'll learn how to make cosmetics.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I become a cosmetic chemist.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I still have the passion of makeup.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I moonlighted on weekends and evenings at the department store for Estee Lauder, for Clinique, Elizabeth Arden with all the big brands to hone in my makeup artistry skills.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went through several different positions in Fortune 500 companies as well as smaller brands.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And about eight years ago, I started my own beauty brand.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I start to do my consulting business to help people to build their own beauty brand from concept to launch.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've been into every single aspect of the industry, from, I mean, even from retail, from formulation, marketing, product development, and even work for cosmetic raw material sales.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I have the 360 of the beauty industry.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I specialize from concept to launch.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now, people ask me, so what happened after you help me launch my products?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Can you also help me after I launched the brand?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So last year I launched my own brand, partly because I want to use it as a case study to show people, yes, even after I help you to launch your brand, I can still uh guide you on because I want my talk.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the inspiration of my brand is really that's the first beauty brand for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very non-traditional beauty brand because my target market is really to give back to those who inspire, educate, or entertain the society.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the first collection of product is lip balms that was inspired by a personal mentor, my celebrity crush, Damon Jong of Shark Tank.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because he always said health should be the number one goal.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: A healthy person can have a thousand dreams and a sick person can only have one.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And because I saw him took out a lip balm in front of me, I said, if it's something that's so close to him, it's in his pocket on his lips, it has to be mine.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And since lip balms could be ingested, so I decided to develop the very best, healthiest vegan lip balm for him, and I extend it to everyone.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's amazing.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's amazing that you got this inspiration for a man because he's, you know, I mean, that's so, so unique.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were crafting this, can you tell us a little bit more about that?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: When you when you saw him using the lip balm, like what were some of the things that you thought about needed to be part of this product?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, so that it appeals to men and women.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when people think of a lip balm, lip balm can be like a dime a dozen, you know, you can get it as cheap as 99 cents, and of course, you can get it as high as like$50 a lip balm.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: However, there are issues with the current lip balms in the market.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: For example, there are a lot of uh lip balms.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at the ingredient list, um, they use either petrol atom, unless it's USP grade or petrol atom.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the residual chemicals is not desirable because they are petrol chemicals that belong to the gas station, not on your lips.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there are also um ingredients like lenolin.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Lenolin is from the wool, which is animal byproducts.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Long-term use of uh lenolin can actually develop contact dermatitis.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also when people say, well, I use 100% natural lip balm, look at the ingredient list again.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: 95% of the natural lip balms contains beeswax.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know how do you get a beeswax?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: You get it from the beehives.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's where bees live.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So why do you want to disturb their home for human vanity?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yeah.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the reason why my product has no petroletum, no lentolet and no beeswax.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So what I have there is superfoods like flexi, that is the natural source of omega 3 and 6, help with chap lips.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: I have avocado and coconut, which are known superfoods for superhydration.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I have a hero ingredient, C.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: asparagus, that is clinically proven to boost hydration by up to 6,000% over 28 days.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So minimum not only gives you short-term instant hydration, it also gives you long-term hydration, long-term moisturization as well.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: It also has mango butter because mango uh folklore use is proven to help to elevate the mood.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I'm using this as a story.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: However, the reason why it's important to me is because uh it ties into my social cost.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I donate part of the proceeds to suicide prevention foundation.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And because mango can help treat um depression when you take it internally.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh tie this ingredient story into my product.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: So every single ingredient I use actually have a meaning behind it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I also have organic peppermint to give you an instant wake-you up sensation.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And another thing that's so unique about the lip balm is also because on the direction I actually said use it before your meetings, before your negotiations, before your pitch competition.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: It will empower you to speak like a shark because it was developed for a shark.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's a great business strategy.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: I I can totally appreciate that.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to ask you some questions actually, because for me, you know, the formulation side of skincare is a very, very hazy gray area because nobody was really talking about it.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you give us some background into what goes into a basic skincare product, like for example, a moisturizer?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: What, you know, in your opinion, what are some of the fundamentals that you need, you know, and and is it all the hype that's around all this like veganism and you know, clean beauty and all that?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I just get so confused, right, with the ingredients from the chemistry standpoint.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what's in a skincare product?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: It also depends on the product form, because if it's serum, it can be oil-based or water-based.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're talking about crimson lotions, it's basically oil, water, and emulsifier plus active ingredients.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the active ingredients are preferably uh clinically tested to prove efficacy rather than just saying you have some sort of oil in there.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, if you it's just sort of oil in there, yes, it's good for hydration, but it may not have proven efficacy for like dark spots, for wrinkles, because those hard clamps, you need to have ingredients that's already clinically tested.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: So now, how does that work from the chemistry's from the chemist standpoint about ingredients and um whether they are safe to use or not?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you guys have a list that's given to you?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's that's available to you know, formulators and chemists, or is that how does that work?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know all the details.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's not a list.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's rather than like um you work very closely with all the ingredient houses.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: I actually was working for an ingredient house uh doing cosmetic raw material sales.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because a lot of people say you want innovation, but innovation starts really from the ingredient.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot have innovation without an ingredient.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, what the ingredient houses do is they will go survey what's available from natural, like they can extract ingredients out from any plant, any seaweed, any um any trees or any fruit.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then they will uh they will test to see if there's certain markers in the ingredients that will trigger.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like um, for example, let me say this: watermelon.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Watermelon is good for moisturization, but the science behind it is because watermelon contains filigrin.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Filigrin can trigger the precursor of the MMF, the normal moisturization factor in our skin, to achieve moisturization.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So this is help to skin to induce moisturization from inside out rather than applying, let's say, jojoba oil, just like an occlusive material, over the skin.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So then how do we know about the filigrane and all these markers?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's because the scientists in the raw material manufacturing, they study.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: They will basically do a lot of extractions from fruits from plants and see what are the markers that would trigger to do um for specific things like is this good for skin brightening?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is this good for wrinkle?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is this good for moisturization?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then they they would do uh studies, they'll they will formulate it into a product and do um like a 25 people study to make sure they can uh they have some sort of efficacy.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then they will go talk to other chemists.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Then the chemists will take these ingredients and uh based on their recommended dosage to formulate into the final product.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Then this final product will be sent to a third-party clinical lab.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, instead of 25 people, now you have to do 50 people and above.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because for stat for statistic uh significance, you really need a minimum of 30 people.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you recruit 50 people, is because just in case people drop out of the test.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So when you send it off for product claims, it's really 50 people.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: But because when they send as a raw material house, their goal is just to prove to you their stuff work.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't have to spend 50, you know, spend money on 15 people.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, Ginger, that's what I wanted to ask you because one thing I'm curious about is that in-house research that is done, um, in terms of the the protocol that's used, right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I for academic research, you know, as I'm sure you know, you go through the IRB to get you know approval for for case, you know, like clinical trials and whatnot, and you have to go through this this intensive process.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: But some of these companies that are um they're testing just extracts, like you mentioned.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think or um do you think that they have stringent uh criteria for how they're publishing?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because you know what I mean?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like you see what I'm trying to get to, or they are not really publishing anything because every they don't publish it, it's really their internal data.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: But what they will be showing you is they would they need to show on their paper that they did in visual testing cell culture, and then if cell culture they use 0.1% for cell culture, you the end user, the chemist actually would need to use like a 1% instead of 0.1%.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then that uh the raw material company can do like a 25 people of uh clinical to prove this works to the chemist.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think that's interesting.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I I mean, I'm so thankful to you for explaining this because I I had no idea.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I have so many questions that come up because it's like, well, who are the 25 people and you know, where are they coming from?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So these are questions I have for those, you know, raw material companies.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I want to ask you um, you know, specifically for your brand, when you were coming up with, you know, which companies you wanted to go for, what are some of the things you were looking for in terms of you know what you wanted in the client you're working with?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have such a uh great background in formulation as this.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: I always go for uh active ingredients that have in vivo data.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: In vitro data is only really good for big companies that have a lot of budget to do further testing.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like the Fortune 500 companies, they want individual data because they can uh they do their own clinicals in-house.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: They sometimes they don't trust the raw material in vivo data, they will have to repeat everything.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: So for Fortune 500 companies, they prefer individual data.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: However, for marketing companies, uh, we prefer in vivo data because even if um your final product, when you send it out for the final testing, it's if you cannot get it, at least you can say you use a clinically proven active ingredient.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: For example, I mentioned I use C.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: asparagus.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: That stuff is a thousand dollars a kilo.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I use at the clinical level.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when people ask me, I say yes, it's a clinical proven active ingredient that is known to boost hydration by up to 6,000%.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm a small brand for my brand.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I mean, when you really send out for clinical testing, you're looking at$20,000.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have that kind of budget for clinicals, and because it's a lip balm, I'm really also comparing to some other natural lip balms like sales for$4 or below.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: My lip balm is$9.99.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so instead of sending it out for full clinicals, I say uh my hero ingredient is a clinically proven in active ingredients I use at the clinical level.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're also coming from a different perspective, right?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because you you know so much on the chemistry side, and you know, you know, you know your ingredients inside and out.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that it makes sense.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're saying, because I trust, I would trust you, your you know, brand, because I know that you have the the educational background and the understanding and the you know to make a great product.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: But for I think for other brands, this is something I feel strongly about.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And tell me how you think.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I think if you if you're coming out with a skincare brand, you have to allocate the money um aside if you don't have, for example, like your background, you know, where you know what you're doing, you have to allocate that money so that research can be done.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, correct, absolutely, yes.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I call On a skincare brand before, and we did two clinicals, a clinical alone was fif fifteen thousand dollars.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, see, well, I mean, it's just just so expensive, and um, I I'm glad that there's something in place, you know.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather have there be some data than nothing, because that's what I always used to wonder is like, you know, where's the data and where is it stored and who has it?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's a personal, if it's a private company thing, then I it makes more sense to me.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so okay, I want to actually shift focus because I I saw that you are um an Allure beauty judge, and I would love to talk to you a little bit about that process.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's it like uh working with Allure and um you know really going through the products and what are the things you look for in a great product?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh of course I try every single product and also evaluate based on how consumer relevant is this.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have been sending products like they cost hundreds of dollars.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: It may be very innovative.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: However, if it's not consumer relevant, if it doesn't really have a really added value but just a bell and whistles, I think it's a museum piece rather than a true innovation.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because a true innovation, not only can the consumer can afford to buy it, can perceive the benefit, but also it's like a cycle, you know, it's a consumer product.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: It can be consumed and repurchased rather than a one-time deal.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I you know, I'm very curious because from the formula perspective, um, you know, I want to ask for your advice because I know that there have been some times where I've come across a very small brand and their formula is amazing.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it works really well, the product is working wonderfully.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, do you have some advice for them in terms of, you know, if they want to optimize that formula or you know, really get it to work at its best level?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some some tips on how to go about that in terms of finding a good lab or finding, you know, someone a chemist to work with.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you mentioned they're already working well.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but so you know, I know a lot of brands, you know, they start off in the kitchen, you know.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's like for example, there's a brand I love.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they have she has a shea butter product uh product, and her shea butter is wonderful and it's it's working beautifully, and it's you know, whatnot.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I would be interested to see a brand like that get that data.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so to take the next steps, um, if you have any advice for those kind of brands.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I actually highly, highly, highly discourage anybody to do DIY beauty because it's uh there are a lot of things you need to be considered.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: When you do DIY beauty, a lot of people they don't even send up for a preservative challenge test, which is uh no no.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: When you even when you put in preservations, preservatives in the formula does not guarantee you it's the right type of of the preservatives you are using, the right percentage you are using.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when if you do DIY, it's not really scalable.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And there will always be a difference when you do it in the lab versus when you scale up in the production.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times when the smaller, like when people do DIY, they come to me and I say, show me the formula, they will say like a one spoon, one teaspoon of this and one tea, you know, one teaspoon of that.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, it's not cooking, you know.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You really need to do that.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you really need to have everything normalized into percentage so people can scale up this for you.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then you really need to do things right since the beginning, just as you mentioned, you know, the formula is beautiful, people like it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Then what if when it scales up, things changed?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then you lose things you'll be losing your customer.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when you start a brand, you really need to think about scale up.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: You really need to have a broader vision, you know.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: You can it's not a kitchen science.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Then people really also need to do stability testing, package compatibility testing.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when you do DIY, I don't think people go through all those testings as um like rigorously as you when you work with a chemist.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: That makes you know that that's a very great point.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, I think for me, I get very confused because you know, I want to understand, for example, let me let me back up.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, all of the uh social media out there has been like demonizing preservatives in beauty or like certain ingredients in beauty.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And for I want to get your opinion about that, you know, how much claim is behind these things?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it are preservatives classified from a chemistry perspective, like as mild, you know, or like better for sensitive skin, not good for sensitive, like that.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a categorization?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: How is how is that you know kind of um that library of ingredients with with these things?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Preservatives is um absolutely must because if you don't have preservative, if your product grows mold or bacteria, you get infection.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So what people are really saying is they want they want paraben free.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when paraben, I actually have some argument with my my fellow chemists because I I've been criticized.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: They say you are a chemist, you you're not supposed to be advocating uh paraben-free.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because paraben by itself is a very effective uh pre preservative ingredient.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And there are noises out there saying it can uh cause like a breast cancer and a carcinogen and stuff like that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but the evidence is actually not solid enough.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And once you have a bad press as a brand, you should avoid.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And my fellow scientists is like, you know, a cosmetic chemist shouldn't be saying that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: But to me, if the consumer knows the paraben is not good from the press, you're gonna be losing yourselves anyway.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: You might as well just go paraben-free.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And another thing is uh parabens, especially if you're gonna be formulating for Asian skin, Asian people are sensitive to parabens.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: They get a stinging sensation, yes.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like in America, how do they test for sensitive sensitive skin?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is they actually use lactic acid.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: They swipe the side of the nose to see if you have any reactions.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if you do this in Asia, one hundred percent of the Asians gonna have reactions to lactic acid.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So in Japan in particular, they resorted to use methylparabin as a uh as a test for stinging, because there are some some uh Asian skin is sensitive to metalparabin in particular.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And some Japanese company on the box will even say stinging test performed.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I like that.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's very, very um, I think more forward than it is here in the States.
• 22:13
  unknown: Yep.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's oh, wow.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I re I did not know that at all.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for clarifying that.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I always wondered that because sensitive skin, so products that are formulated for sensitive skin.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the main test then?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: The skin sensitivity test?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Skin sensitivity test is with the lactic acid, which 100% of the Asia is gonna have reactions to it.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think everybody should have a reaction to lactic acid, you know what I mean, in some way.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like you should I, you know, it's an inflammatory component.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's a you know pro-inflammatory.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, but yeah, that's very interesting.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I actually want to know a little bit more about um some specific ingredients because you so parabens was definitely one of them.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious what you think about stem cells in skincare, because this, when I first saw this like a product, uh it was, I don't know what uh company it was, but it said stem cell, you know, overnight mask.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking, you know, from a biology perspective, right?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was thinking, what in the hell is this?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how can this even work?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So from a chemistry standpoint, does that make any sense?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Having stem cells suspended in a, you know, in any kind of formula.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the stem cell coming from fruit of fruit of a plant.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: So their stem cell is no way similar to the human stem cell.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: So from like the standpoint of stem cell for healing, for like a regenerative uh therapy, it's not the same.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: However, the stem cell from the plant or from fruits, they can add to moisturization benefit, they can add to antioxidant properties.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: So they have some value.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do you preserve that?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I'm thinking of stem cells, regardless of the origin, they require a very specific medium to grow in, you know.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like going back to like lab research days, like I when you're growing stem cells in a petri dish, you know, you know, as you know, there's so many things that are in the medium that we grow them in.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: So to preserve something like stem cells in a skincare formula, I'm very confused, you know, from the science side, how that even is possible.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's to me, it's really a story.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And do they have benefits?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because it's from plants.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And with any plant, you're gonna get antioxidant property for sure.
• 24:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the polyphenols.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but they shouldn't advertise like that, you know what I mean?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like they shouldn't say, like, oh, this is stem cells, you know, put it on your skin, you're gonna look great.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's you know, it doesn't make any sense.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Those stem cells are most likely dead, you know.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm thinking in my head.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I just wanted to ask you.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Beauty industry needs a story.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I know.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know, yeah.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel about that, Ginger?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like all the marketing and stuff, like you know, as from your perspective as a formulator and chemist, like when you look at all the marketing hype and the buzzwords, like, what's your opinion about that?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's very sad.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Short and sweet.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's very sad.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I yeah, it is.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, I want to actually I want to talk a little bit more about your career.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you are um an author and uh you've written a book.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: That one was originally meant for as an ebook only, and the reason why I did that was because I'm a consultant.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of people call me, and everybody wants to have their own like a beauty brand, but they haven't done any research or anything, so that's a very basic primer for people who wanted to get into the beauty industry without the know-how.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not an in-depth discussion, but um really just more like a primer.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I actually have people want my autograph.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I look at it, I was like, okay, how am I gonna turn it into a book?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the creative space they to be classified as a book, it is 25 pages.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I did a 25-page book, so it can be solid as a physical book.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like that.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Short and sweet, you're all about short and sweet.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool though.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's but you know what?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I like that you wrote a book about the fundamentals because that's what people need.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, nobody knows this stuff, Ginger.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I don't I I had no idea.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when I talk to, you know, I'll you'll be surprised how many people I speak to that have a skincare line and they have no idea how the chemistry works.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, how can you be a founder and you don't know how your brand works scientifically?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's very, very uh confusing for me.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I usually direct people, so you know, you can you can buy it from Amazon, it's only 10 bucks.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Or I right now I actually offer like a one-hour consultation for$250, but that$250 can be credit to all my future services.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, in one way, if you're willing to spend that$250, to me, you are a more committed, more qualified client.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then um I also make sure I don't waste my time because if you go forward, then it's credit back to you.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a win-win to me.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And my$250 code is actually very popular because I get so many uh people raving about it, it gives them clarity on what to do.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: There were two people actually changed their brand name because of after the discussion, and also kind of help them to solidify the direction of how they should tackle this very competitive market space.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, that I I love that.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you said that.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: I want to actually know in terms of business strategy, just some uh general pointers.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any general advice for people?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, some things to consider before starting a business or you know, anything.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, uh, usually that's how that's part of my call that I would I would ask two questions.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: The first question is why do you want to do this?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're telling me uh I want to do this because I cannot find something that is suitable for my skin, blah, blah, blah, I will say, forget it because you are not doing your rook enough.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, a lot of editors in particular don't like this kind of story.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: It means you don't you didn't do enough study.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, if you say, Oh, I have rotation, I cannot find anything to cover it.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh have you tried a cosmetics?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: It it helps you.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so those kind of story uh usually is very weak.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't like people to say, well, because it makes a lot of can make a lot of money.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, beauty can be profitable, but you also need to be prepared to be bleeding for the first three years if you have the stem uh to go through that.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I need you to think about why.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you doing this?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because the the road to beauty entrepreneurship is very hard.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you, if you have your why, whenever you have any frustrations, you go back and take a look and why did you start this in the beginning.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: That will help you to move along.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's number one.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: The second thing is I want you to think about where you are gonna be selling your products at.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people is gonna say, oh, I'm gonna have my website, gonna be selling at my website.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I want you to think about deeper, longer term, because if you have any slightly remote idea that you're going to into retail or go on QVC and anything other than your own website, yeah, you need to know because the retailers they take 50 to 60 percent of your margin.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can make money on your website, you may be losing money when you go to retail.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's actually a great point.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: And think about that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, like how should how should people um how should people decide or entrepreneurs decide how to you know uh price their product then?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: You price your product based on the distribution you want to go in, and then you look at the white space, you look at the competitive price in that specific target market, and then you work everything backwards.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's very interesting.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh it's it's all great advice.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for sharing that.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I from a I think business, uh and you're right, the beauty business is something that's sometimes it's very hard to find a white space.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: So when you finally find it, you know, I think a lot of people, uh, from what I've heard at least, they don't know how to translate that into a business.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: So all the advice, you know, we can get out here from you is is very, very appreciated.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're very welcome.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, I wanna I wanna actually just say thank you so much for coming onto the show, Ginger.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is, you know, I I don't get an opportunity to talk to a true chemist, um, you know, very often.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate all the clarity that you've brought.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to help.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and everyone out there, if you like this episode, let us know in the comments.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you have any questions for um our team or Ginger's team, leave them in the comments um that we're gonna post on Instagram, the cover art.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope you like this episode, and we will be back next time with another guest.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 31:42
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• 31:47
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• 32:04
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• 32:21
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• 32:25
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• 32:35
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• 32:41
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• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.