Latest / Beheaded / And Her: Lady Jane Grey, the Nine Days' Queen (Part I)

Transcript

And Her: Lady Jane Grey, the Nine Days' Queen (Part I) · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to season three, episode 13, part one.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's Lucky Number 13.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Lucky number 13.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna be Friday the 13th soon.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're here.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Season finale.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is a season finale.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's two parts.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So don't be a psycho and only listen to one part because that's odd.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why people do that.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's what everyone does.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: We have more listens on part two than part one.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because all you, y'all freaks just want to listen to the beheading.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you weirdos.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of dark creatures are you?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Our followers.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it is funny.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a staggering difference.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like, okay, like only a few people listen to two and not one.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Probably like 30%.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was gonna say 30 to 40%, probably more listens on part two.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: You weirdos.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Should we not do partly?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say this is part one, so they're not even hearing us talk about them.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got to save this part for the second half.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: We will.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: But we can say whatever we want about them right now.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe this is like safe space.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: They will never know.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sick people.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you know those people, please call them out.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Please write to us and tell them, tell us who they are, where they live.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we know where they live.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have all of that tracking.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: We do.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have very good metrics on uh bus sprout.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to know what their least desirable way to be executed would be.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's important.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Should do a survey.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Survey monkey this afterwards.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: We'll find you.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Elizabeth.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of sad.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
• 1:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Bittersweets.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because we always go on to hiatus.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: We do a break.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because this is like our lives October through April.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Through April, May.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like such a big part of our time, right?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we do it every couple of weeks and we spend a lot of time researching.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I mean, it is like time consuming, right?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hobby for sure.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And for some of you who may have wondered, like, do we do any type of profit for this?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: We literally don't.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I get fed ads and salespeople all the time.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you can monetize your podcast.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And but this is very much a hobby for the both of us.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we just like doing it.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not here for money.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I I want to pretend to be a historian when I have no master's degree.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I'm doing.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like maybe like we'll we'll do it just so someone can give us an honorary degree from somewhere.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, like Taylor.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Taylor Swift got an honorary degree.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: From where?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh oh my gosh.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, NYU.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a big one.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not terrible.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not Harvard, but hey, NYU's cool.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get our honorary degrees in Cambridge.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: What's her name from Gossip Girl?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Blake Lively?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Leah, the other one.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Michelle.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's from the I don't know.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't watch these shows.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's that called?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, I can't think of anything.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Glee.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Glee, thank you.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no, Blair Waldorf.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: My girl from Blair or from Blair Waldorf.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Should be called Blair Waldorf.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: From the Blair Witch project.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I actually saw a survey the other day on Instagram that was like, who do you think the main character was of Gossip Girl?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I just love Blair, so I clicked Blair, and most people said Blair.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of dumb, but it's like one of those shows where like once you start, you might as well finish kind of thing.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Not bad.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Going back to our hobby though, so yeah, kind of like our cadence with this is we have a lineup that changes probably 20 times throughout the season.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we think we know who we're gonna talk about, and then we get excited about something.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, no, no, no, let's do this person instead.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or we get suggestions.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, we'll listen to some people throw things out too, which I always appreciate.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Please communicate to us.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we usually like put those towards the top of the list once you do.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So yes.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Mostly Instagram.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I clearly don't look at my email, Facebook, Twitter.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and then we'll kind of research that person.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: We do that for about a week.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then we do recording night, which is a whole thing for us because we normally meet on Tuesdays and Elizabeth comes over like six-ish.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sounds about right.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we have snacks, mostly cheese, some wine.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of wine.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: We talk for we just get caught up for like an hour or so, and then we get ready, we watch some documentaries together, we get our notes together, we kind of we don't have a script as you can probably figure that out, but we do have notes.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say, like, our notes have gotten more robust over time because now we know the general structure of like, you know, what we're gonna say.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like looking back at some of our early episodes, my notes are just like and then they died.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like trial, execution.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, great.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: I do have to laugh if you listen to the last episode.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: It is such a true thing.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know it was in the middle of like a fit of giggles, so it's probably hard to get out, but it's true.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we always start off with early life, and we Elizabeth and I are normally like, okay, who wants to do early life?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because the meat of the story, if I'm like, I don't know, it's about chemistry or it's about broom fucking hill dudes, I don't know.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Socrates theories.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but don't don't let that be an indicator of this evening because it's very deliberate our our layout today.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Our approach.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, and it's not even like so.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: We have fun recording, and half of the time we have to like sometimes through this whole banter part, I have to take stuff out because we just end up in conversation.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Then we just go, oh, we're recording, let's get back on track.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to remember sometimes we're like, we like gossip and we're like, wait, maybe we should not have all of that in here.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: I edit.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: But that's also a fun part for me is I'll go back and I do all the editing myself.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Which I mean, I'm not gonna say I'm an expert by any means.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, you do a great job.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's gotten a little better.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: We used to have some sound quality issues, we've gotten better at it, I think.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the part I do, like, if there's anybody out there who has like a passion for social media, I'm so bad at posting to maintain social media.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Cause, and I think you and I are kind of the same.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're better at social media than I am, for sure, but both of us are the same.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when we get excited, we're like, okay, I'm gonna post this, this, this, and this.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't wait to like write it, write the caption, like it, and then days go by and then it's expired.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: It becomes a chore.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: It becomes a chore.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, this is not even relevant anymore.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I write probably too much.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I hashtagging, I don't really understand.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I do it, I don't understand it.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I literally just have a note of all the hashtags I use so I can just insert them without having to think about them every time.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of like English history, it'll say French history or Italian history.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I just like that's all I because I can't just mentally like think about it every time.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's so funny to me too when I look at the trends of our Instagram.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, for example, I'm trying to kind of record Anne Boleyn's timeline of her downfall because we're we're in the middle of it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it all kind of starts on April 30th and it goes literally downhill from there, right?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying to document day by day of what's going on.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so funny because when I post pictures of actual still frames from the tutors, I'll get a pretty like higher than normal.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll post, or for example, like I made like my own little edit, like okay, I'm gonna grab these pictures and make my own, and then there's like nothing.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I three likes.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't get the trends, but I don't really do it for the likes, anyways.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I do it because for us it's fun for to document.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And overall, this what I guess what I'm getting at is thank you for listening.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is very much just a hobby of us, and this is what we like to do.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for supporting us.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've gotten to know a lot of our listeners like personally, like some of us follow each other on Instagram or like DM through Instagram.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's been kind of fun.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Again, meeting people from all over the world.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I mean, we yeah, we do it for fun.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we are already talking about season four and some things we're thinking of for that.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: So crazy.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: We could do some shout-outs.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: How about that?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're shouting out.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out, Nikita Rose.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, dude, she's bombed.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love you.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love liking your liking as a verb.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I follow her on Instagram.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: She's got a really fun life.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I love her freaking dog.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for like reposting our things and just being a supporter.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's awesome.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know we've had some new followers too.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Eric.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Eric D.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: You look like a fun guy.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Daddy Pig likes to dig.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's new.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Daddy Pig.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: He actually like, yeah, posts some really cool historical content.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm looking through my Instagram messages.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have Tom Felton in here.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think I may have gotten drunk one night and text and message.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Did he message you back?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Was he like, wait, is this Megan Moore from Beheaded?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: He did it.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, oh, I didn't tell you this, Elizabeth.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember why I did that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was posting because Tom Felton is gonna be in a new movie about the gunpowder plot.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's playing Guy Fox.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to um apologize for like a very stupid moment I had.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: When?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I did like a little survey of like who do you like as Guy Fox, Tom Felton, or Kit Harrington.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, but they're both in it.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, they're two different things.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Jake and I just my husband, Jake and I just started watching the Gunpowder plot on HBO, which also it's like a mini-series.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, the best drawn and quartering scene in the first at the very beginning.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like very graphic.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very brutal.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't want to like spoil anything because I think it's like supposed to be a surprise.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Kit Harrington is not Guy Fox.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that's who he played.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Who does he play?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Another guy.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like another person.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this is not two separate shows.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: It is No, they they are.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's a movie coming out with Tom Felton playing Guy Fox.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's an HBO mini-series that Kit Harrington's the main like protagonist in it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: He's like the main guy on the trailers, the main guy on the posters.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: But he's not.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I hadn't seen it.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: I just had known, like, oh, yeah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't play Guy Fox.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Did he play the side?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Did people fill out the poll?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, everyone voted for Kit Harrington, besides like two people thought Tom Felton, who has not aged well.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Bern.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: He might be my new fan after I messaged him that was gonna scratch all of that.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh cut that part.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: We love you, Tom Felton.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh anyway, um, but so far we're only on the first uh episode.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's only like three episodes.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's some good execution scenes.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: How long is the whole series?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I only it's like they're each like an hour.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like three hours.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: But like how many episodes?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's only three.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so you're done.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: You said No, I'm on the first.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I see.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's exciting.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't picked up a new show in a while.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've just been too busy, and like off season is gonna be awesome because I'm done marathoning for this year, gonna be done podcasting.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have so much free time.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Eat.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna like snack.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be too hot in Arizona to like run outside.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm gonna like just kind of snack and you know, make some cocktails and enjoy the pool and yeah, pick up some new shows.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what, but we'll see.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a nice little chill time.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Good things coming out.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I need to chill.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um Well, you you haven't been chilling.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: You went to Disneyland last weekend.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've had like a crazy travel schedule recently.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, I've told you guys about all the marathon trips, but this last week I had to go had to I had to go to Disneyland.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I went and I met a bunch of co-workers at Disneyland, and I haven't been to Disneyland.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we've been to Disney World a few times, but Disneyland since like 2017.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's been really long for an avid Disney goer.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth's a huge Disney fan.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: You collect all the ears and yeah, I have so many ears and crowns and pins and like merch.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I used to have a pass in college at go all the time.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so weird for me to be like an outsider at Disneyland because it's like everyone understands like the new rides and the new lightning lane system and the mobile ordering, and I'm like, where's the Dole Whip line?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just don't understand anything.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm actually taking my mom for Mother's Day coming up, so like um, so that'll be fun because now that I've done it once, I feel like I'm an expert again, and I could be like, oh mom, you have to mobile order the dole whip.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'll know things.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt very much on the outside this trip.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it was great because the girls I went with from work, like two of them used to work at Disneyland.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all of them are just very big fans, so we had a great time.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, saw the new Galaxy's Edge, saw the new Avengers campus.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's so much to see.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so good stuff.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And like they really reimagined a lot of the food menus, so we had a lot of good time snacking.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: You can hug the characters again.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: You can hug the characters because it was like very distanced.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of sad.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and even the way I mean you you and I saw this at Disney World, like the way the characters came down for parades.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was like they were in like one vehicle per character, like very isolated, didn't feel like a big deal, like the big production.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was nice to see.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so I did that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I had to go to San Francisco for work for something.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I've just been like all around.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sick of flying.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like I've just been like constantly getting like sick and like tired and my legs hurt and like this.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I can't wait to just like chill by the pool and have like a hot Arizona lazy summer.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I want.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you start getting lazy.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna pick it up.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna pick it up.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Jake and I are leaving for England next week.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when I actually post You will be in England 2, I'll be in England.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm really gonna try my best to document my emotions as I go through this.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, please try.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I know I'm gonna be emotional.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I know the minute I see the Tower of London and Hampton Court Palace and Heaver Palace and Thornbury Castle and stay in the room that Ambolin stayed in.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I think Jake and I were talking about the things we're most excited to see.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say my top three right now.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to see the graffiti in the Tower of London where the prisoners carved out like the um the like ambulance falcon.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to see the the eavesdroppers and the the like fine the last H A emblem in Hampton Court Palace because it stood for Henry and Anne.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And they had to get rid of it all so quickly after she was executed and he was marrying Jane Seymour that they missed one of the little carvings up in the the like ceiling of the Hampton Court Palace in the banquet hall.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's cool, he never corrected it either.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like they noticed it and they're like, well, whatever.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Which is great because he married another Anne, so just leave it.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I I've been reading, um, kind of like getting myself in the mood for all of this.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've been reading again Eric Ives' version of um The Life and Death of Ambolyn.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned something that during her coronation, we talked about how the people weren't very excited and they were silent and they didn't take their hats off when she was being, you know, her procession down the streets.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that people were making jokes that the H A stood for like ha ha because she was such a joke.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because she was coming after Catherine.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So H A Henry Ann, they were like, oh, it stands for ha ha because she's a joke.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I because I did not catch that, but I saw that during when like the Tudors episode during her coordination, because they have the banners that say H A, H A, H A.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it looks like ha ha ha.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I noticed that just on my own, being like, oh, how funny, like ha ha.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like but I didn't realize that was a thing.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess it got sense.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Which is just funny.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: But did they say har har back then?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Har har har.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was a third thing.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oh, I really, really, really, really, really can't wait to see Anne Boleyn's portrait in Heber Palace.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like the infamous, and it's not that big.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's I mean, I'm pointing to you, but no one can see that.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's about the size of that.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's good radio.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like 30 inches.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like when you see the Mona Lisa in real life and you expect it to be this grand portrait, and you're like, oh, that's freaking tiny.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Which they actually um painted that portrait to about 60 years after she died.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's good to know.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, anyways, those are the things I'm most excited for.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what is Jake most excited for?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: He told me it was something like food and uh What a boy.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just not working.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: PTO.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, you know, PTO.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to see the double deckers.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Pubs.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, no, I think he said like going to the English pubs.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's cool.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Drinking.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of thing.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: But no fish and chips for you.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, anyways, we're gonna try our best to like document.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Jake is very prepared and up for the challenge of kind of not having me just like in the, you know, just taking pictures of everything, but getting both of us in pictures and me in pictures, and he's gonna be your like production assistant.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'll try.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I know.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, take your take your time because obviously this is your trip for your soul.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, I want to see all the pictures, I want to be super involved, but I also know that like these things are very personal.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, like uh they're I don't know about personal, it's more or less about my laziness of getting them published.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's hard when you go on vacation because it's like your camera roll is just over blasted.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like literally 15 pictures of the same freaking like corner, you know.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So then you have to go through it all and you're like, oh my gosh, like I have 1500 pictures, like things that you thought were important.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's always like it's fun to relive, but it's always a pain because you're like, I don't even know.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm too overwhelmed by all these pictures to even like edit them out.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it's all good stuff.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited for you.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So tonight, um, we haven't revealed who our big season finale is, which is always someone important and big and worthy of two parts.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, not a brunhilda, not a brunhilda bitch.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is a good one.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is actually a good one.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's one we wanted to do for a while.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, go ahead and introduce her.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Should I?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she is technically a queen in the Tudor era, but she had a very, very short reign.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's known as the nine-day queen.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Lady Jane Gray.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I just got chills.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Chills.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Chills.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're both wearing gray in a certain way.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Mine's kind of a navy, but sure.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it looks relevant to the era.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this one.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I just after reading and watching and digesting, I'm not gonna say I like her more than Anne Boleyn because Anne Boleyn will for always be my number one, my heroic heroine of history.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's redundant.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: My historic heroine of history.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Of history.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Not redundant though.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but Jane is up there.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Jane's a good one.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: She's a really good one.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think the first time I really like because I I've known who she was for a long time, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I think when you gave me the book, The Last Tutor, which is obviously fictional, like Philippe Gregory book, but it was like the first time I realized, again, the whole there's no men in this era, like who's gonna be the next heir, her and her two sisters, and like where do they fall throughout all of this?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was the first time I really contextualized her life.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then again, researching it for this book, I was like, or this book.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're not writing a book right now.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we could.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: We could this episode.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, oh, like, yeah, she's got such a good story, and way more powerful of a woman than you would think.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of people thought she was just kind of when you hear something like the 90-day queen, assume maybe she was just oh, like a quick blip in history, like puppet type of figure, but really like super powerful in her own way.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: She was young, so it's like you kind of feel like eh, she's just a Passover, but yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh let's get into it.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, wait, how are we starting with this?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Am I doing early life?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: That was what okay, I had a preface.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, don't be deceived.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Should I start with the family tree before as like a setup for all?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, why don't we whoa, we're going rogue.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do it.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do it, do it, do it the family tree.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, because like the family tree for me was super helpful just to contextualize.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, family trees are visual.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be speaking to you, but just to make it a little more clear of like where she stands amongst the other tutors.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: So if it helps at all, Elizabeth is using a lot of hand tutors.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna make my hands real visually see them.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Protect the wine.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll try to, and and now her hand is over to the left, showing the left side of the tree.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Left side of the tree.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'll try not to like hit anything or you might hear some swooshing sound.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: You turn Italian when you talk about family trees.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Very visual.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, go for it.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: It helps me mentally keep it on track.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so you have at the top of this family tree um Henry, King Henry the Seventh, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Not the eighth.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because King Henry the Seventh has three children, and we're just gonna talk about survivors, because yes, in this era, a lot of people died.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're only talking about surviving children.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you have King Henry VIII, you have Margaret Tudor, and you have Mary Tudor, who are the three children.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we've kind of known from other episodes, and probably you all know a little bit of background by now on Henry, but Henry VIII has Edward VI, his only boy, and he has Mary the First and Elizabeth I, right?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: So two girls, one boy for King Henry VIII.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then his sister, Margaret Tudor.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, her son is James V, whose daughter is Mary Queen of Scots, which we've also done an episode on, so you should be very familiar with her if you're a good executionato.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Educate yourselves.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Educate yourself.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: See season one.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So the last sister is Mary Tudor, who marries um Charles Brandon, that we've referenced before on this podcast.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um Mary and Charles Brandon have a daughter named Frances, who marries someone named Henry Gray.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they have three daughters, a lot of daughters going on in this era, and their three daughters are Jane Gray, Catherine Gray, and Mary Gray.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of Mary stuff.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of Mary, and I know we've talked about this before, but obviously this era is full of.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Mary's and Catherine's.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Mary's and Catherine's and Anne's and Margaret's, like, they're all over the place.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: But hopefully that gives you a little bit of an idea of like, okay, like one of these like lines on the family tree, one of these branches is King Henry VIII and his daughterslash one son.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: One is the Mary Queen of Scots type of like branch, and the other is the Gray family, who we've not talked really much about on.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the biggest thing to call out is there are eight surviving women.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: James V dies.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: James V.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So eight surviving women and Edward.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And Edward.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about Lady Jane Gray.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: She was born autumn of 1537.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And as Elizabeth just said, she's the eldest daughter of Lady Frances and Henry Gray, who's the third Marquise of Dorset.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Also, like to kind of describe the family tree a little bit better, to put into other terms.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we can also say she is not only the daughter of Mary Tudor, but the great-granddaughter of Henry the Seventh.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Henry the Eighth is her great uncle.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I got it.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking at my notes.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking at my notes for half a second.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I was trying to I was trying to write it in different ways to kind of figure out her relationship to the Tudors.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: She's the first cousin twice removed from Elizabeth the First, Mary the First.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So she's she has royal blood in her, even though at the time people didn't really know she was kind of a nobody.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like she lived out in the country somewhere, you know, not really like in the courtly life from day to day.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: They were very wealthy.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Her family, they were part of the court, and she was very educated.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: She learned multiple languages, Latin, Greek.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: She had um, you know, committed tutors, not tutors, tutors.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she was known for reading a lot.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: She wasn't one to like sports or going outside or really riding a horse or falconry or anything like that.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: She loved to read.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: She loved reading play-doh and philosophy.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: She just she was a very smart girl.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: She also learned how to write.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: She had beautiful handwriting.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: She knew how to write letters, which was kind of something that they taught the boys.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: But she was smart.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: She knew, she knew how to carry herself.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: She knew how to be a lady in court, and that's what she was being trained and raised to be.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Especially because you have to remember that because there are no boys, like they're not, you know, her and her sisters aren't just these girls that are being overshadowed by men in their family.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're it.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: So even though they're women, like they want to be educated, like, you know, they want to make sure that they're very fiercely Protestant.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're being raised in a way you would almost raise a boy because there are no boys.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you only have to put your energy into these women instead of like worrying about the guys in your family.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we talked about this in the Anne Ask You episode, but as a reminder, Henry VIII dies in 1547.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So for the first 10 years of uh Jane's life, England is Catholic.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: But her father and her tutors were very committed Protestants, which is funny because Queen Catherine Parr was also leaning Protestant, which was against Henry's beliefs.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's all very confusing because Henry goes back and forth.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Between Protestant and Catholic.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: But all you have to know is the first 10 years up until the end of Henry's life, England is Catholic.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: So she but she's getting all these Protestant influence influence and she's learning how to be raised Protestant.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: February 1547, a month after Henry VIII dies, she's only 10 years old.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: She goes to live with Thomas Seymour and funny enough, Catherine Parr.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna kind of breeze through this part, but if you want to know more about Thomas Seymour, uh I did an episode interviewing Rebecca Larson specifically about Thomas Seymour.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Rebecca Larson, she hosts uh the Tudor Dynasty podcast, and she is very, very thorough on Thomas Seymour.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: She's almost done writing a book about him, so she is definitely someone to talk to.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: But so I'm gonna kind of breeze through this.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're interested, go back and listen to that special episode last summer.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: But Catherine Parr was the final queen of King Henry VIII.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: We call her the survivor.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she very quickly after Henry dies, she goes and marries Thomas Seymour.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas Seymour is the uncle of Edward VI.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Are we getting confused yet?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Am I naming too many Edwards Henry's Thomas's Edward VI is the surviving male of King Henry VIII?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Henry VIII's son, Edward.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: His uncle, who's Jane Seymour's brother, is Thomas Seymour.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Jane Gray is sent off to go live with Thomas and Catherine.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And this was a very common thing to do.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was called foster families.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it was something that aristocrats did.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was a it was something of high nobility.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if you feel like, oh gosh, they're just passing her off as like some orphan, or is she that needy, or do they need to go send her off to work?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: That that wasn't the purpose.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: She was an attendant to Catherine Parr.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And she was a, it was kind of a matchmaking like situation because they're in early stages getting their daughters or their sons out there into other families and meeting other families and creating bonds.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the Seymour's and the Pars, these are high nobilities, the ex-wife of King Henry VIII.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so she's there to to be her attendant, and she's also learning from her.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Again, Catherine Parr is very Protestant, so she's getting more Protestant influence from Catherine.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's learning, um, Catherine Parr was also very into arts and music and education and reading, and all of this is being fed into Jane Gray.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Jane Gray was with her not for a very long time.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's so sad.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth and I were saying this that we call Catherine Parr the survivor.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she didn't live that long.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: So Henry dies January 1547.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: She marries Thomas Seymour, she gets pregnant, she dies six days after giving birth in 1548.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's literally the next year after a year later.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh Jane is the chief mourner at her funeral.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, she was a beloved person in her life.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she actually ends up moving back with Thomas Seymour.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at this point, she's only 11 years old.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: She saw him kind of as a father figure.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I will save my remarks because there are other comments about Thomas Seymour and his creepiness with Elizabeth I, but whatever.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Save that for another time.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Besides the point.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, up until the point in 1548, Thomas Seymour is arrested because he is trying to take over ruling Edward VI as being his protector, which really was his older brother's deal.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's a whole nother thing.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: All you have to know is Thomas Seymour gets beheaded.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Dun dun dun.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 28:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot going on.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did I overspeak in my parts?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, that is perfect.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, go go on with your We're very organized this time.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, we have everything like pretty much in a nice little tidy bundle here.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so while this is going on, um, Edward VI, right, is is currently the king.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: He's young, he's the boy king.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he's getting increasingly concerned about his succession, right?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's no other men in the family.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's only women who are mostly very young or in his opinion, incapable of running um the country.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: The kind of the oldest uh girl that is is up for the job is Mary Tudor, who is very Catholic.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, we know Edward VI is very Protestant and is not about to like just let that happen.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: So he is very much like his father in that he believes in only male heirs.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: He kept he keeps saying it over and over, he puts it in um everything in terms of writings that only male heirs are acceptable in this time.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing that they do uh in this era is they say, okay, all of these single females, all these young girls need to get married, like right now.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: They need to start producing heirs.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe one of them is gonna produce a boy, so that way, you know, if king if something happens to King Edward VI, we have another boy ready to go.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: We have another king ready, who's just gonna be another boy king, but at least there's extras, there's other people to choose from.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to remember that Edward VI isn't in great health in general, he's just struggling.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so here we are, we have the gray girls, we have Jane, Catherine, and Mary.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um Jane's parents kind of approach her and they say, Hey, you know, we know you're only 15, but you need to be married like yesterday.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we have the perfect man for you.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have Lord Guilford Dudley, and he's actually the son of John Dudley I, who's the Duke of Northumberland.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: So Northumberland is just how we're gonna reference him because that's easier to say than that full title.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Northumberland at this point is the person who's essentially the most powerful land or man in the country.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: He is Lord President of the King's Council, and he's the one who's really overseeing Edward's rule.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's the one who's looking after his health.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: He's the one saying, Hey, like, let's take a look at your succession.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's take a look to see what's gonna happen if for whatever reason something happens to you.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so he's really kind of the one pulling all the strings at this moment.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, that's the person that the parents go to to Jane and say, Hey, you gotta marry his son.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it just so convenient?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: So convenient.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Northumberland is like, well, how do we, you know, get get with the gray family?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about the matchmaking.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a few other facts about Northumberland.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: He was a soldier, he was a politician, but he came from no nobility.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: He was one of those kind of like a Thomas Cromwell.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: He worked his way up.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Worked his way up on his own.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he really did not like Edward Seymour, the older brother of Thomas Seymour.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: He believed in 1549 um England was going bankrupt over how he was advising Edward VI, because again, Edward's like nine years old.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's a b um showing him how to how to rule England.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um he he was the one who rallied up the Privy Council to agree to overthrow Edward Seymour and have him executed in 1552.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of beheadings going on here, just left and right.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: So both Seymour brothers uh were executed and beheaded.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but John Dudley, first Duke of Northumberland, he's the one who takes over.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he's kind of calling the shots here.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: He really is.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So he gets inside of Edward's ear on, okay, we need to revise your succession.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I got my eyes on these girls.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so when they initially approach Jane and they say, Hey, we found you a husband, she protests right away.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she knows she's too young.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: She kind of she's smart, so she understands what's going on here.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think it got to the point where her father even kind of struck her across the face a few times.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't have a choice.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is the plan.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: The king has decided this, um, the Duke has decided this.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're all on board, you have to get on board.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually, because she's obviously like pious and Protestant and believes in honoring her mother and father and her country, she was like, Okay, like I guess I don't really have a choice.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: I do have to go through with this.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: May 25th, 1553.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: She marries Guildford Dudley at the Darham House, which is a posh fancy little house.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, you get to see is it still there?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Should I?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Should I go look for it?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was a triple wedding.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Triple.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about how it was like boom, boom, boom, get it married.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was Jane, her younger sister Catherine, and then Guilford's sister, also Catherine.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like we said, lots of Catherines.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they all get married together.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and at this point, Edward VI is still alive, but he's not doing so well.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: They believe it was tuberculosis that took him out.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was only 15.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: He knows he's not feeling too hot, and he sees the end for the first time as possibly being like his sickness could be terminal.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when he's he's starting to reconsider like, oh shoot, there's no lineup.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: The lineup we have is it sucks.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even with these new marriages and things, he realizes that he's probably going to not be around long enough to see all of this through.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we have to remember a few things about this.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to remember that uh in 1544, something was passed called the Third Succession Act.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially, before this, um, Mary I and Elizabeth I, who are King Henry's daughters, were both deemed illegitimate.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: They said, Well, you know, your mother, Mary, was Catherine Varagon, and your mother Elizabeth was Anne Boleyn, who are both been divorced from the king.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: You two are no longer, you know, up for the throne.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: You two are basically illegitimate daughters with not that many rights.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can live at court, sure, but you really can't go and do anything else.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: So this um Third Succession Act brought them back essentially, like made them legitimate heirs, made them legitimate daughters.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so this happens, and Edward then creates something called my device for succession, which is such a teenage boy.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: My journal.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: My journal.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: My ideas written by Edward.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: So in his own hand, he creates this whole thing to say, okay, like, yes, there's this third succession act, but you know, what can I do to have my influence over history?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what can I write in?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so he's just going on and saying, okay, we need Mary's male heirs, we need Elizabeth's male heirs.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: If Francis over there on the other part of the family tree has male heirs, great, they get the title.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: So he's just going through saying, this male heir, that male heir.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: But as he, again, he knows that his um his health is in serious decline, he changes part of this by just two words.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Two words that change the entire fate of everything.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, we're still kind of assuming that Mary and Elizabeth are the two that are up for the job.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: But he goes in, he knows he doesn't want Mary because she's Catholic.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he doesn't really say why he passed over Elizabeth I.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like because if he passes over Mary to pass over Elizabeth to say, which Elizabeth was a strong candidate, which she turns out to be being a Protestant herself.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: But he immediately looks at Jane Gray and says, Well, Northumberland is already in my ear.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know she just married this Guilford guy, so you know they're probably gonna produce soon.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: So he adds a tiny little carrot, like a little insert into his um devise for succession.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: It changes from Lady Jane's heir males to Lady Jane and her air males.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And her.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: And her is all he added.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Two words.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: And her.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So important.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Lady Jane and her heir males.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Saying Lady Jane is included to become queen.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: She's a candidate now.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then after her, her ma her air males.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Her male heir.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to say.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: After her, her heirs male.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: I can't keep saying it sounds weird.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: One of those things the more you say the more.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I love this document when you actually look at it because it's true, it's all in his own handwriting.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's a 15-year-old boy writing this out.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: He actually has very pretty handwriting.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: He does.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: They like call it crappy for the time because back then, like penmanship was was it.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was kind of sick.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: It looks nice, like thrown up all over whatever.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Better than Robinson.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it was kind of like written immaturely.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was pretty plain.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that he just adds a little carrot, like a little upsign, like and her.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like he just that's enough.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's all it took.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy that those two words changed the course of history.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people think that this wasn't just again thought of by him, that it was probably um coerced by Northumberland.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, he wants power himself.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's thinking, wow, like his son could become king.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because Jane Gray's going to be his daughter-in-law.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: So so they circulate this letter, this uh My Device for Succession letter, written My Journal.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: My journal by Edward VI.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so they patent it in June um 1553, and it is signed by like, I think it's what, 102 notables, um, including all of the privy council.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: So now it becomes, you know, this 15-year-old boy's journal slash like my will.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then it becomes this very important document where everyone signs off on it and they say, Yes, we approve, even your little carrot and her.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: 102 people in the privy council and 10 lawyers all signed off on it.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it it was it was legit.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of people agreed and they signed and they said, Yeah, this this counts.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Looks good.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um July 6th, 1553, Edward starts about 8 p.m.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, I feel faint.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Minutes later, the kid is dead.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Not very resilient, fellow.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel bad for Edward.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: A little.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't that, you know.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: He had some potential.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: I guess.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: I also love like the fate of things where it's like, if just one thing would have been different.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you think about the butterfly effect, you know?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: And how it just so happened there was like what a like powerful moment for women in history.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Even though they had to fight damn hard for it.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like their one and only living boy dies.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it just turns into a stream of women.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now it's like fighting for the throne with all of these important women that we've talked about for a lot of different episodes who really redefined, you know, the era and redefined history.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: When I think of the tutors, I think of women.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really I mean, sure, Henry.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Aside from Henry and his women.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: But you only you only think of women.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you think of his wives, you think of his daughters, you think of obviously the like Elizabeth's reign.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it is kind of funny that this is uh one of the most exciting times in English history.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's run by by ladies.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the weak boy dies.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: He dies.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, no one announces his death, and this is extremely intentional.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Northumberland is on it super, super fast.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, okay, it is game time.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: The kid just died.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Boom, boom, boom.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to get my ducks in a row.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to get my son somehow onto the throne, even though his son, Guildford, has zero connection to royalty or the throne or whatsoever.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Again, they're barely noble.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: They rush over um and he starts instantly getting the Tower of London ready.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he's doing this because he knows the minute that Mary the First, or let's just call her Mary Tudor, because she's not Mary the First yet.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: She's not the queen.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, yeah.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that he knows that Mary Tudor is going to try to slide in there.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: The minute that she knows that her younger brother died, in her mind, she is next in the throne.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: So he tries to be very sneaky with all of this.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And his first plan of action is let's get the Tower of London ready.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: The Tower of London is the fortress in this period and in this area.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's going to be any type of outbreak of civil war or protection needed whatsoever, it means the tower needs to be guarded.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to have ammunition and military and they gotta buckle down.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um like he wanted to claim the tower before anyone else could.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first piece.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also the Tower of London is an important piece of the coronation because that's also where the next heir will be going there to be coronary, you know, to get their procession ready and prepare for coronation and all of that good stuff.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: So he's trying to keep it very hush-hush that Edward has died.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the only way that people kind of start figuring it out is all the movement happening at the tower.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's building up on guards, he's building up on military, on like I said, the gunpowder, the ammunition, the cannons, whatever they had, the swords.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and people are, especially people like within the court, I mean, really, only people who saw Edward die know that he's dead.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and he's sickly, so he's always in bed.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like, oh, where's he missing?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: He's missing from the party.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, he's always missing.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you never see him anyway, so it's very easy to conceal his death.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: People kind of start figuring it out though.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's a lot of commotion going on, and and Dudley seems a little bit on edge right now, Northumberland.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um they then call Jane to the House of Sion.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And she doesn't know why, but they're just like, you are needed here right now, little lady.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Get your butt over here.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the date is July 9th, 1553.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so she goes all the way to the House of Scion, and they all just kind of sit her down.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: They all being Northumberland, I believe the privy council's there, her parents.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Her parents, like everyone of importance in her life is sitting there, and they say, Hey, you are going to be the new queen.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations, you're queen.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: She has no idea.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: She did not see this coming.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: She is a smart girl, so I'm sure she had some inkling of like where she stood in line with the throne.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: But her first thing that she said was, This is not for me.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: She basically alluded to the fact that this is Mary's role.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not supposed to be queen.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: So she was very reluctant.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she didn't even know at this point that King Edward VI had died, so she starts crying on behalf of him.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like she didn't even know that he was, you know, uh dead.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: So she starts crying.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of emotions going through, and she wasn't overly emotional, she was just shocked, I think.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think people didn't know where her tears were coming from.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Was it tears of joy?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because, oh cool, I'm gonna be queen.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: But really, they think it was because she knew Edward.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: They were kind of childhood friends, it's her cousin.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: So so she once she kind of you know gets over her reluctance, she then says, Okay, well, if this is what everyone desires, if this is what Edward VI wrote, you know, into his like kind of will, essentially, then I said.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose it's the will of God that I take this role.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: So so yes, I will accept.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: Again, she wasn't super all about it right away, but she she went ahead and said she would do this and she would be the new queen.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the first queen of England.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: They've never had a queen in her own right before.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of wild.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: She's 16 years old.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's a baby.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: How Elizabeth?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, imagine you're 16.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: You just get called over to like this big house, and they're like, Elizabeth, you're gonna be queen.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: What would your reaction be?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would already have had a plan in place and I'd be like, that's right.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: First thing we're gonna do is we're gonna remodel the West Wing.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: I want a big party uh on a fortnight from now.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a black and white themed party, or like my portrait hanging in the gallery when you first walk in.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't know what you would do in 16.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think, again, it's a lot of emotions, right?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like obviously anyone's excited to be told you have a new title, but with that comes a lot of just pressure immediately, too.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're like, oh my gosh, like I have to run this country.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's my day-to-day gonna look like?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a price on my head now?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because I now have enemies, like, do I have to fight wars?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's a lot of stuff going on.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think anyone's quite prepared to hear it, even if you are someone who thought that could be you and it will you were in line the whole time for it.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't imagine that it resonated with her right away either.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like the probably the first thing she was hearing was Edward died.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you're overcome by emotion with that.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, I feel like I would be like, I'm I'm sorry, what?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like it wouldn't feel real until I wouldn't believe it until I saw it.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Until I was sitting in the throne room.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in the throne room with a crown on my head.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't believe it.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely shocking.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: So she again is now the first queen of England.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's not until the next day, July 10th, that they say, okay, you're officially proclaimed queen, and we want you to reside in the Tower of London today.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: So she has, again, no time to even process this.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: One day she's told, You're going to be queen.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: The next day she's officially proclaimed queen.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: They send her to Tower of London.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, like Megan kind of alluded to, the Tower of London is exactly where the Tudor monarchs all resided from ascension to coronation.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, right before they're coronated, everyone stays here.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we again at this point identify the Tower of London in a lot of different ways.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: We know prisoners stay there, we know executions happened there, but it's also where everyone's coronated.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Prisoners.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's but there's actually beautiful apartments there as well.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if we remember back to Anne Boleyn, it was very ironic because she also stayed in the tower in the apartments on her coronation as tradition.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: She stayed in the same exact rooms when she was held on house arrest and then eventually executed.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's kind of like foreboding too.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, there's a lot of history here.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: If it were me, like in charge, I'd be like, again, going back to if I were queen, I'd be like, okay, first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna make a separate place for where I stay before Cornish because I'm not staying here.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know how this game works.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: One day you just lock the doors and I never come out.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Her procession to the tower was a very big deal.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: She she was dressed gorgeously as if I saw it.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: So beautiful.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Pop of vogue.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she wore green velvet with gold and a white headdress full of jewels and gold.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um You sound like you're at the Met Gala.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Dudley wore all white and gold.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Her uh her mother, Frances, was carrying her train, which is a very symbolic and kind of odd thing because as Elizabeth mentioned, uh sh Jane is the first person to be crowned just as queen in her own right without just being married into it.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: But it was also a very odd thing that the succession skipped her mother, Frances.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: You would think it would go in order like mother than daughter.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's very odd.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of the first draft because Ed did several drafts of his device for the succession.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the first one it didn't single out Jane at all, but it basically said like Francis's heirs and then the heirs.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it eventually led into just like Jane and her male heirs.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of funny that Frances was overlooked, but yet she was she was still there and she's behind her daughter, which is symbolically kind of a big deal.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: It is because this is an era too where everything is all about rank and tradition, right?
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: So the order of things.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: So like the wise are, you know, outranking the young.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: The mother outranks the daughter, like the men outrank the women.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's just like the structure of society.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you have this young 16-year-old girl whose mother is holding up her train.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Following her, following her, her footsteps.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of backwards.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Even more backwards is this little shithead Guildford.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: This kid, I keep mentioning him because he has fucking guy.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: He has zero connection to any of the royalty.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: His dad just slithered him in there.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about a little leech.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're just like, and here.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Guildford has the audacity to be in the very front of everything in the procession.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: So he's in front of Jane, the now proclaimed queen.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: He is in front of his father.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's in front of, he's standing in front of everybody.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he's leading this procession into things, which again is just a symbolic thing.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where uh his father, Northumberland, clearly put him there very deliberately to make a statement and to show, like, okay, this is future king.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is who you really need to look at, and this is going to be our our leader leading us into this procession.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: This guy that nobody knows who he is.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: He's only 18 years old.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sure, very very believable.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: But anyways, we've got this big procession going through.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Jane makes it to the tower, and uh this is very kind of a terrible thought and a little bit foreboding, but it is the last time she actually leaves the Tower of London.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like we said, sometimes they just lock the doors on you and you don't come out.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't know it.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: She thought she's going in for a good thing.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, little did she know that she was leaving behind her entire life, her home, her childhood, her friends, her innocence, her just being a nobody off in the countryside of England.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as soon as they shut the tower doors behind her, all of that changed.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: She will never again exit.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Jane, again, this is all a lot of stuff compacted into only a few days.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I know this timeline seems seems condensed, but that's how it happened because again, nine-day queen.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: But she's a smart girl.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she knows what's going on in terms of Northumberland trying to get his little shithead son on the throne.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: So she I'll just call him a little shithead.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Little shithead, yeah.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to know his name.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but she just kind of out of the blue, without really consulting anyone, says, Hey, Dudley's not gonna be king.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like Guilford is not gonna be.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Did you hear how she told them this?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: You have the story?
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I have the story.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so she was the um treasurer of the jewels, brought her her crown.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I do remember.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just for like a fitting.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: And she was by herself, just him and her, and she was alone, and he puts the crown on her head.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Just like, how does this feel?
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: This will be your new crown.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: She said, No, it's fitted.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: He goes, And you know, we're gonna make a similar one for Guildford.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: And she goes, Oh no, he's not going to be king.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm just gonna make him a Duke.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so she tells him, Hello?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're just gonna be Duke of Clarence now.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's cute you thought you were gonna be king and outrank me, but I'm the queen.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Making him king would have required an act of parliament, which she just wasn't quite ready to do.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the very first decision that Jane's making on her own.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like she's building some confidence, like, yeah, I'm queen now, and uh husband of mine, you're not gonna be king.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, this overthrows Northumberland's entire plan of getting his son on the throne.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not very happy.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: His mother-in-law, or sorry, her mother-in-law is demanding, no, no, no, no, no, my son needs to be king.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Jane never liked her mother-in-law.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: She always thought there was this weird dynamic of like, you know, mommy's little boy.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like he's such a mama's boy that she got very annoyed by how protective she was.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I like this too.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Guildford told her, Well, I won't, I won't have sex with you until you make me king.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: And which is a big deal because, like, yeah, yeah, you need the heirs.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: She needs to get pregnant.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: But that was his whole uh his whole threat was no king, no sex.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: No crown, no sex.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: No crown, no sex.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, cool.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine with me, Guildford.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Go be the Duke of Clarence somewhere.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: All of this is happening, all of this drama, again, it's just in a few days.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, now word is out on what's happening.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Mary the First is still around.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mary Tudor, we're calling her.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: She is.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's still around um, she's got word of what's going on.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: She finds out Edward the Sixth is dead.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know anything about Mary, Mary is ready to be queen.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: She's ready to be a Catholic queen.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: She's ready to be a fierce Catholic queen and change the whole country back into Catholic England.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: So she hears, hey, Edward VI is dead.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, awesome.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go start rallying support.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the next queen.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's on.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's on.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is a good part to leave you all hanging.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna let you simmer on that for just a couple weeks.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go head off to England.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sambai.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, but in all seriousness, we're we're we're gonna end on that cliffhanger.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna do a little recap next time we reconvene here.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're gonna sit on this a little bit.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: Jane's still on a high, she's got that crown on her head.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Guildford does not have a crown on his head, and neither does Mary.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: So uh things bound to happen here.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth, any final words?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not until next time.