Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Sorry to Bother You with Sam Sanders

Transcript

Sorry to Bother You with Sam Sanders · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi listeners. Quick note about this episode. About thirty four
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: ish minutes in, there were some technical issues and we
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: had to use some backup audio for a brief moment.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: So if some of the audio sounds a bit different
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: for a short time, that's why. Otherwise enjoyed the episode.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: On the beck dodcast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef invest
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: start changing it with the beck Del cast. Hey, Jamie,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Hey Caitlin, sorry to bother you, but would you like
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: to record a podcast with me today? Right now? No,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I have I'm stage four, I can't. I can't record
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: a podcast today. Please click click, oh no, and then
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: a whole lot more movie. Hi, Welcome to the I
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: think that went well. I think are perfect. The thing
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: about our intros is that we're always giving it about
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: It's not my best effort most of the time. Well,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I that wasn't a personal attack. Mine are operating on
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: a lower level, I would say. I usually just say
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: the name of the movie and then we start. Look,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: look we're off to a start. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And this is our show where we analyze movies through
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel Test simply as
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: a jumping off point, just trying to get a conversation going. Yes,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: do we regret naming it this after all these years? Yeah? Yeah,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: but it's unfortunately too late. Okay today today, I'm so excited,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: uh for the movie we're covering today. A popular request
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: since it came out? Should we say what the Bechtel
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: test is though? First? Or do we not want to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: do that? I guess let's do it? Can I do it? Please? So?
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by queer
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test. A
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: lot of versions of the test. The one we use
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: requires that two characters of a marginalized gender with names
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: speak to each other about something other than a man
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: for two lines of dialogue. Surprisingly relevant to this movie.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: But it's our jumping off point for discussion. And what
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: is this movie, Jamie? Today's movie We've been getting requests
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: for basically since it came out four years ago. We're
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: super excited to finally be covering it. It's Sorry to
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Bother You, Boots Riley, and we have an incredible guest
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: to discuss this movie with. Let's get him in the mix.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: We really do. He is the host of two weekly podcasts,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Into It from Vulture and Vibe Check from Stitcher. It's
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Sam Sanders. Hi, thank you all for having me. I'm
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: so happy to be Hereanks for coming. Yeah, Yeah, it's
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: gonna be fun. I can tell so much fun. We're fun.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: We're fun, fun, so fun. Sam. What is your relationship
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: with the movie Sorry to Bother You? You know, it's interesting.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: So I remember when that movie came out. There was
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: so much buzz about how you needed to watch it
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: because it's his commentary on late stage capitalism, and yes,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: do it. And I watched it and I remembered it,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: and then I want to say, who's the director of
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: this film, Boots Riley? Was it him? Yes? So then
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I was also enamored by the anti Oscars campaign he led.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: You know, he was shortlisted. There was talk of him
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: getting some Oscars for this film. Critics loved it, like
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Keith Stanfield was great in it, and then he doesn't
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: get nominations, and he says, I didn't get any for
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: this film because I didn't chase it. I don't play
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: that game and I don't like that. And I like
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: that as well. And then later when he was doing
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: press for some other piece of work he was doing,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I got to interview like Keith Stanfield a few years ago,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: so I loved him because of that. So in general,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: every time I think of this movie and my experience
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: with it and the actors in the plot and the
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: dialogue around it, I liked it. But then I rewatched
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: it two nights ago through the Bechtel lens and things changed.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Thanks changing. Yeah, that tends to happen with this Yeah,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: And there was like a fair amount of I had
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: to like launch myself backwards in time and remember like
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: there was that was sort of discussed when the movie
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: came out, but it wasn't uh main topic of discussion,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: which is totally understandable. But yeah, watching this movie with
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Bechtel goggles on it changes everything. It does change things. Jamie,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: what about you? What's your relationship? I saw this movie
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: shortly after it came out, and I really really loved it.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: When it came out, I feel like it's just like,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I just love the how this movie looks too, Like
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: every performance is amazing, it's beautiful. I feel like it's
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: a peak bisexual lighting culture kind of yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: which we love. I I love it. I'm clinging to it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: But I feel like eighteen is where it was like
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: peak bisexual lighting. Um, that's how you knew something was
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: about to happen. Um. Yeah, I loved I really loved
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: this movie when it came out. Um. I feel like
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: it's one of the better, more fun to watch leftist movies,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: right up there with Chicken Run. Does a top Chicken Run.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Let's not pit them against each other, the idea of
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Chicken Run as a leftist film. Now that you say it,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: so you have to watch Chicken Run with leftist goggles.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: It's so much it's even better. I'm going to do that.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I tell you what I'm going to do that. It's
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: the fast. But yeah, this this is like one of
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: my favorite movies at the time. I still really really
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: like it. Um. And I also think for our purposes,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: there's uh, there's some stuff to discuss that I think
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I noticed at the time but was very willing to
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: overlook because there's so many elements of this movie that
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I love, So there's a lot to talk about. And also,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I think if nothing else, like, I was not super
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: familiar with Boots Riley as a cultural figure prior to
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: this movie coming out, and I'm very happy I know
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: about him now because he's like he was like raised
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: by like union organizers. Like he's the fucking coolest. I'm
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. Yeah, Caitlin, what's your history
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: with this movie? I saw this movie in theaters during
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I believe the movie past days that would have been
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: to my movie Pass towards the end, Yeah, I believe
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: so movie Pass hashtag never forget and it's coming. It's
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: coming back. Wait at the same like in the same way.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: It's different. There's a limit, okay, because that's how money works.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: They forgot that the first time, and I loved that.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: When you think about it, movie Pass was kind of
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: it was like for the people, you know, it was
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: an indictment of capitalists. It was like pay ten dollars
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: and get thirty movies a month. I don't know much
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: about the business side of what happened there. It was
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: it like for the people or was it just someone
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: was like bad at being a capitalist. I think someone
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: had a really bad business plan and was banking on
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: the fact that like people similar to how yeah, like
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: you know, you like join a gym and you pay
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a gym membership and they're like, oops, I've been paying
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: this for six months and never went to the gym.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I think people were banking on like the difference going
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: to the gym is hard, going to the movies is
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: not exactly. I will buy a gym membership, say I
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: want to go and then not. But if I buy
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: a movie pass that just lets me go to movies,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: always going to choose to just go to a fucking movie, right,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: come on, you know what I'm saying. I feel like
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: there was kind of this golden age of seen and
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: then whenever in it got cut off, where so many
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: people have seen every movie just because it was possible.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: I saw so many movies that I would definitely not
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: have like paid ten dollars even ten I mean, and
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: that's like using fifteen years ago prices. I saw thirteen
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: times on movie pass. Look wait, stop what really? Yes,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: it's the sickest thing about me. Margaret Robbie was great
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: in that role. She wasn't that great? Look, Sam, You've
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: never been me at my absolute lowest times at the
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: low s Fields three. My current it, Tania is Dune.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I put it on at night on the couch as
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: a screen saver while I look at zello listings. It's
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: really pretty and you can just constantly look at it
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: because it's really pretty. You don't care about the plot
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: at all. I mean I don't. I couldn't even sit
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: through it. I just have it on as a screensaver.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: It's it's a screensaver. It's really good when you're on
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: a second screen or when you're stoned. Wait, excuse me,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: this is an anti drug podcast. You can't be talking
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: about getting you whispering. This podcast is brought to you
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: by dare D a r U. Screensaver movie is such
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: a perfect description. That's like that is a whole genre,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: but I've never heard it describe. And I love them all.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I love them all. Okay, every Boss Lerman movie, screensaver
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: movie anyways, going oh okay, I would, I mean some
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: of them are also good, but like in terms of
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: screensaver movie, thesa just be so visual and beautiful that
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you can enjoy it with the volume of to me,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: boss Lerman movies are too chaotic to be screensavers. I
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: feel like you need like a soothing slow just like
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: not really much happening. Okay, I hear that, although I
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: would watch Romeo plus Juliet on mute. Yeah, it's beautiful.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: It might actually be more palatable that way. Some might say, Yes,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: some Buzzlerman works could be better unused. That's how I've
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: been doing the new Lord of the Rings series because
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I know it's pretty. I know that like Lord of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: the Rings is never I don't know why it's never
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: gonna quite connect for me, but I don't. I'm not
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: mad at it. I like having it around, but I
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: also like pressure not to not watch it. Yeah, I
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: just marvel at the discourse because I'm like, I truly
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: do not care. Like a few friends of mine, we're
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: trying to get me into the like black Hobbit discourse
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: last week, and I was like, I don't give a
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I don't so anyway. Sorry to bother you, Yes, yes,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: sorry about that. Sorry to bother with all that? Oh no, no, no,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: not at all. I mean I feel like also, our
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: episodes tend to like the tone of our episodes tend
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: to match the tone of whatever movie we're talking about.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: And this is a very chaotic movie, so chaotic episode,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: so good good, Yeah, of course. Um. So I saw
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Sorry to Bother You in theaters. I didn't know much
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: about it except that so like the marketing of the
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: movie was like, Oh, it's about this black character who
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: code switches to perform better at his telemarketing job. That
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: was kind of the only thing I knew about it.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I didn't know it was a whole indictment of late
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: stage capitalism, like I and so I went into it
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: kind of unprepared for all the stuff that this movie accomplishes. Um,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: and I thought it was really cool. Thought, yeah, just like, visually, narratively, thematically,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of cool stuff happening. L Keith Stanfield is
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: in my top five celebrity crushes. Also, he's also a
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: really nice guy, is he all? I'm so glad to
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: hear that. Well, if he's listening to this and love you.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I interviewed him years ago and just so humble, so
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: down to earth. At one point he was in the
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: interview booth drinking this like charcoal, lemonade, cleans, pure and
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: juice or whatever. Finally, I was like, what the funk
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: is up with your charcoal lemonade? And then he gave
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: me a sip and it was, Oh, he gave you
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: a sip online. I love that. What a generous man.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: He's great. Love you, la Keith. Anyhow, as you work
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: ahead the things I would sit from m Keith Stanfeld,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. What I'm saying, second, an erotic,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: thrilling experience. So it was. It was an enjoyable watch,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: but I hadn't revisited it post seeing it for the
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: first time until prepping for this episode, and I'm very
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: excited to discuss Yeah, so shall we get into it.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I think this is the first movie we've covered in
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: a while where the Bechtel test is actually a relevant
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: point of discussion, and it's like, it's, uh, well, we'll
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: get to the reasons why. But it was like a
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: discussion at the time, and I have so many thoughts. Okay, yeah,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: but first we need to find out what happens in
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: the damn movie. Let's do that. But even before that,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll come back
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and we're back. Quick question before we start the recap, Yes,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: do those ear rings hurt to wear. Do you think
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: they seem very heavy? I would say very heavy possibly, yes.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Oh the ear rings that Tessa wears in the movie, yes, yeah,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: it was a lot. The first time I saw her
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: were the ear rings. It was cute. But by the
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: end of the movie, because they keep changing them out,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, spare her lobes. For her lobes because
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: you I'm sure it was like multiple takes for every scene.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: You know for sure, like they yeah, she has to
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: get there should be some sort of rule on like
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: lobe distress. I was concerned for her lobes. I just
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: am rooting for Tessa Thompson to not be in any
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: discomfort in her entire life. Same same, I would second
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that motion. Yeah. Okay. So the plot of Sorry to
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Bother You goes as follows. We meet Cassius Green. He
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: goes by cash often. That's like Keith Stanfields, not a
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: metaphor for something green cash Okay, interesting coma cash, I'm
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: thinking already. We meet him in a job interview, and
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: despite having lied on his resume and bringing several trophies
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: to the interview, he gets a job as a telemarketer
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: at a company called regal view, where he will be
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: expected to call as many people as possible and stick
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: to the script. Then we see Cash is at home.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: He lives in Oakland with his partner, Detroit, played by
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Tessa Thompson. She's an artist. Cash expresses concerns that he'll
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: die and nothing he did in life will matter. They
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: then see a commercial for Worry Free, which is like
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: a work initiative where employees are guaranteed lifelong work. They
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: are given a place to live, they are provided with meals,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: and Cash is like, hmm, this is something to think about,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: especially because he's broke. He drives a shitty car. He
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: owes four months rent to his uncle Surge, who was
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: played by Terry Crews. Yeah, it's kind of the Amazon factory,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: like on steroids. And you noted, Caitlin. I don't think
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: I noticed this the first time I watched, but it,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: you know, summer. The people at work Free are addressed
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: like the minions. Yes, had to have been on purpose.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: The minions were, I mean huge, his boots, Riley a
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: million's head also sidebar. The minions have been big enough
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: for like close to a decade. That's crazy. They were
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: like the most beloved actors of our generation Minions acting
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: geniuses literally agree literally did you see the newest Minions movie?
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: And then I'll stop my promise. We both did. The
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: funeral scene were singing, My god, I have not laughed
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: that much since soul playing, so it's so funny. I
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: was blown away by how much I was laughing. The
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: plane scene also got me so good. A plane scene Peanuts,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: I love it, I love it. There are students Kevin
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Stewart and Bob but I did think, I mean, millions
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: have been around since, so wow, I feel like Boots
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Riley like that was probably an intentional stylistic choice, right,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: because because the Worry Free Workers, they're wearing like blue overalls,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I think a yellow shirt under that, and then like
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: yellow caps almost like a swimming cap kind of thing
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: that just make them look like minions. Kevin vibes such
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: a time Ken for sure, because we talked about this
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: on our Despicable episode, because we covered Despicable me. What's
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the union situation with the Minions? It changes all the time.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: In some movies they're paid, In other movies, they don't
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: appear to be paid. They have money because they contribute
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: to Gruze Go fund me to steal the moon. So
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: it's a little complicated. We're not sure Boots Riley is
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: thinking about it harder than um, the writer of Minions movies.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Although wait, okay, one last sidebar. We we talked about
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: maybe we mentioned this. I don't know if I knew
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: this the last time we talked about Minions. But Mike
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: White is writing Despicable Me for interesting, So then it's
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: going to have a bunch of plot holes like White
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Lotus do. I loved White Lotus, but a lot of plots,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: but there were quite I was just I mean, I
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: know Mike White can make a good kids movie. He
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: wrote school Rock, but I just was like, huh, indeed,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: and good for him, you know, so worry free Minions aesthetic. Um,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: it's there. It's clear and present. So Cashus arrives for
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: his first day of work at Regal View. His manager
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: tells him that if he makes a lot of sales
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: as a telemarketer, he could become what's called a power caller,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: which seems to come with a lot more pay and perks.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: So cash starts making calls. He always opens with the
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: line you know, sorry to bother you h and everyone
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: hangs up. On him. Then his colleague Langston, played by
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Danny Glover of Saw fame, of course, his most famous role.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: We can all agree as just say I wrote Danny
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Glover parentheses of Saw. No, he wasn't stuff before Saw, Sam,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think that's true. It's he started
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: with Saw his brain go role. People are like, now,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: this guy, this guy might I mentioned lethal weapon, which
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: would not at all pass the Bechel test, but feminist masterpiece.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Lethal weapon doesn't hold a candle to feminist masterpiece. Yes, yes, okay.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: So Langston tells cash Is to use his quote unquote
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: white voice while he's making calls, and Cashis is skeptical.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: He then goes to a staff meeting where Cape ber
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Land is there. Her character is Diana, Diana Debauchery. Such,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: all the character names in this movie are incredible, and
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: she's so good. She gets like three minutes in the film,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: but it's a good three minutes. I'm a good it's
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: a solid three minutes. Yes, So she's kind of giving
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: a spiel about you know, oh they're a family, and
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: just like keep making calls and stick to the script.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Mrs girl boss y. We also we've met this character
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: before but Salvador is. They're played by Jermaine Fowler. Um,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: he's cash Is like best friend and also colleague. Also
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: there is Squeeze played by Steven June, and Squeeze approaches
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: cash Is after Cashes had asked like can we get
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: paid more money? Squeeze approaches Cashes and tells him that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: some of the staff are trying to unionize. And then
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: we see a newscast about protests at Worry Free headquarters
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: because employees there are forced to sign lifelong employment contracts,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: which people likened to slavery, especially because they're not paid well,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: they their labors exploited, etcetera. However, the CEO of Worry Free,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Steve Lift, played by Army Hammer, denies these claims. Yeah,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Yike's Army Hammer. I will say, it's like we and
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: we don't need to get into army hammered discourse because
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: we would be here for five hundred days. Um, this
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: would be our five days of summer. Army Hammer like
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: notorious abuser, and this is I feel like the only
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: kind of role that I feel like I can still
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: watch him in. It's like you you can't watch an
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Army Hammer movie. Even prior to any thing becoming publicly
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: available where you're supposed to empathize with him. This is
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: the least empathetic character in the movie at very least
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: still not still not doesn't feel good to see him,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: but yes, because he plays like the worst person. Yeah,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: the worst person, and I mean in the world. Yeah,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: at least uh yeah, a little easier to stomach. Um.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: So Cash starts using his quote unquote white voice, which
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: is voiced by David Cross. I didn't know that. Yeah, okay,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I like David Cross. That's a good like fun, that's
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: a good one guy. The famous people who signed out
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: to do the white voices of black characters with David Cross.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: And then it's Lily James for Detroit and Patton Oswaltz
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: for for Mr b Mr Mr Mr Beep. Yeah okay.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: So Cash starts using his white voice at work and
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: starts to make a lot of sales and it seems
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: like he's well on his way to becoming a power caller.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: And meanwhile, Squeeze Salvador and others at Regal View are
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: organizing and trying to unionize and planning a strike. Then
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: it's the day that the Regal View callers um Squeeze
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Salvador Langston Detroit who works there now as well as
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Cash and everyone else. They go on strike. But this
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: is also the day that the managers at Regal View
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: promote Cash and make him a power call, which he
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: cautiously accepts. So then he goes up the private power
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: caller elevator and meets his new boss, Mr Beep and
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: played by in the voice in the Power Caller Elevator
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: is Rosario Dawson. I learned today, same same Mr Beep
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: is played by Omari Hardwick and voiced by Patton Oswald.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: As we said, um, he tells Cash that Worry Free
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: is their biggest client. Basically, they sell cheap slash slave
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: labor to ceo s so that corporations can make bigger profits.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And Cash is conflicted because he wants to be a
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: part of his colleagues movement, but he's also trying to
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: escape poverty and he's trying to help out his uncle's
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: serge who's about to lose his house. So he's conflicted.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: And on his first day as a power caller, Cash
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: makes the company a ton of money and then he
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: starts to earn a lot more money. He's able to
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: help out his uncle. He moves into a nicer place,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: really h g TV kind of sterile looking apartment, and
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Detroit is like, hey, dude, you abandoned your friends, You've
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: sold out. The work you're doing is morally bankrupt. And
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: he's like, well, I'm good at this job and you're
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: reaping the benefits of the money i'm making. Uh. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: then she's like, well, if you go to work today
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and cross that picket line, we're through, which he does.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: He goes to work, a protester throws a can of
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: soda at his head, which becomes a meme and like
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: kind of makes him Internet famous. It's like the have
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: a Coola and smile bitch meme I had. Yeah, I
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: had to also checked. I was like, this was intended
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: as a reverse Kendall Jenner, and um boot Riley is
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: confirmed it was intended as a reverse Kendall Jenner. Okay,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't make that connection, but yeah, that makes sense.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Kendall Jenner Pepsi fiasco of twenty seventeen. I think it
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: was um So. One night, Cash goes to Detroit's art show,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: which has very anti capitalist themes, and she is still
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: upset with Cash and he leaves and goes to worry
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Free CEO Steve Lifts annual party at his house question Mark.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Steve Lift is very impressed by Cash and all the
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: big sales he has made. Then Cash goes to the
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: bathroom and finds himself in a room full of human
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: slash horse hybrid people equa sapiens. Basically, they have human
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: bodies and the heads of horses. Cash is absolutely freaking out.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: He's like, what is going on? Steve explains Slash shows
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: a video to Cash that worry Free scientists have been
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: turning humans into these horse people to make them stronger,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: more obedient, and more productive workers. And Steve wants Cash
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to become one of these Equi sapiens and work at
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: worry Free for five years, managing the other horse people
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: but pretending to be there. As Steve Lift puts it,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Equi Sapien Martin Luther King Jr. And in return, Steve
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Lift is going to give Cash one hundred million dollars.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Smiley face, smile face, and I promise that after five
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: years he'll turn him back from being a horse person.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: It's right, like that was one of the I mean.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And we'll get way more into this during the discussion,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: but like, I liked that that detail was constantly thrown
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: in to like put Cash at ease, and it kind
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: of like triggered different things in me of like different
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: discussions you have when you're starting a job that you're
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: like not totally comfortable with it with They're like, well,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: you're not bad, You're just it's just it's temporary, and
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: then you can go back to being like who you
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: are right now. When here's the thing that we know
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: from that movie from life. Some changes cannot be temporary.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Some changes permanent, right and there's like some ship you
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: do that can't be undone. It's like it'sh man, Yeah,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I wish I could see this movie for the first
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: time again because I didn't see well, we're getting to
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: it in a second, but the the ending it doesn't
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: feel good, but it does feel accurate. So despite the
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: huge offer of money, Cash is like, I don't want
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: any part of this and he runs out. He's still
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: freaking out. He can't find his phone. He also thinks
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: that the coke he snorted at Steve's party might actually
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: be the like catalyst that turns you into a horse
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: person horse dust, so he goes to Detroit for help,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and turns out the Equi Sapiens have Cash's phone and
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: they had sent Detroit a video of them being like,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: please help us, weren't so much pain, And then you
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: see Steve Lift come in and threatened to turn them
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: into glue. So Cash then uses his fame as the
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Kola and Smile bitch guy to go on TV and
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: expose how worry Free is making these horse people, but
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: instead of it having negative consequences for worry Free, their
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: stock drastically increases and the general public does not seem
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: to be outraged by anything that's happening. I do like
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: how like in the space of like two minutes, this
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: movie does what Don't Look Up was like trying to
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: do for two hours, and it just like accomplishes it
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: very seamlessly and quickly because Cash can't even like make
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: his point before he like is covered in ship on television,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Like they won't even let him get to the point
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: before he's been completely humiliated, right exactly. So then Cash
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: contexts Squeeze and Salvador to devise another plan, and they
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: break in and release the Equi Sapiens, who attack the
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: cops who have been beating the ship out of the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: protesters at Regal View throughout the movie, So basically there's
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: an equi sapien uprising and then things quiet back down
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and Cash has reconciled with Detroit and Salvador and he
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: intends to go back to Regal View as a telemarketer.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: And then the movie ends with Cash starting to turn
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: into an equi sapien and then we flashed forward to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: him breaking into Steve Lift's mansion, presumably to kill him. Done. Done,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: That is the movie. Let's take another quick break and
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: we will come back to discuss and when you're back,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: all right, where to begin? Yeah, Sam, is there anything
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: you you want to kick off with? You know, I
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: guess like my biggest takeaway and this was my biggest
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: takeaway after being asked to rewatch the film under the
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Bechdel lens. You know. When the film first came out,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of folks were saying, there are
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: several things in this movie's favor It's an Oscar worthy film,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Oscar caliber film with a black cast, made by a
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: black creator. We love that this is an Oscar worthy,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Oscar caliber film that is a critique of capitalism and
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: excessive capitalism. We love that, And I feel like those
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: were the only messages that I took him when I
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: first saw the film. But as soon as you watch
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: it with any Bechtel in you do you realize Tessa's
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: character is a prop. She's a prop the entire movie,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: and you never really see her have her own life,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: have her own interest, or have anything to say unless
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: she's in it to Lakeith's character or his friends, or
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: in one scene, these shitty art collectors who literally throw
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: sheep's blood on her as she's almost nude. And it's like,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: what I wanted the entire film was to see Tessa
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Thompson talked to her friends about her life and what
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: she wanted to talk about, and not have it be
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: in service to the mission of the main character. And
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I suppose this is like the fatal flaw of many films,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: but I'm almost mad at myself for not catching it
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the first time or two I watched the movie. But
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: as soon as y'all said watch a Bettel style, I
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, ship, it's real, it's real. Yeah, it's
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: this movie is I feel like the spirit of the
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Betel test is like pretty relevant to this movie. And
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: I remember seeing it discussed at the time. Not I
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: think that it was, you know, overshadowed by the very
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: deserved praise that this movie received. But yeah, Tessa Thompson's
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: character is It's so frustrating because it's not like the
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: opportunity isn't there, and it's not like giving her character
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: more to do, or even like cutting a different minor
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: character in order to create the real estate to give
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: her more to do. It. It's like the character is there.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't seem like the interest in exploring the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: character was made because she and Cash are under similar circumstances,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: but the movie is mainly interested in how Cash deals
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: with it. I feel like the movie is even a
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: little more interested in how sal deals with it um
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: and it ends up being like I felt like by
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: the end of this movie, even though you get moments
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: like I like the idea of exploring, like, well, what
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: does art accomplish if you are talking about capitalism to capitalists,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Like that's a really interesting question that is impossible to
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: answer in the space of one art. But it just
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: felt like she was, Yeah, she was used as a
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: tool and you don't know really anything about her outside
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: of the fact that she's an artist and she's like
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Keith Stanfield's girlfriend. And then as the movie goes on,
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: it almost feels like she's this like symbolic pawn and like, well,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: if she goes with is she going to go with
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Squeeze or is she going to go with Cash? Will
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Cash get his shipped together? Or will she go with
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Mr Union? And it just like, I feel like it
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: totally undercuts a really cool character they set up that
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: we never get to, like, you're totally right, Sam, she
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't have friends to talk to. There are no women
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: present in Cash's life outside of her that we know of,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: and even I mean I was even like hoping for Scraps.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I think the first time I watched this movie, it
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: like registered for me, but I was so blown away
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: by what this movie does well that I was like, well,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know. And then when I watched it the
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: second time, it's like we don't even get like some
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: sort of big are contrived conversation between her and Kate Berland,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: like they worked together, why can't we have that? And
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: they're like politically opposed. Yeah, Kate Berland has the most
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: interesting monologues of all the management at the company. The
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Key's character works for. They don't give you any backstory
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: on her, and it's Kate Berlant who can do it.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: She can read any lines you want to give her.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: She's great. It is. It is wild to me, though,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: especially when I look at like the Bechtel of it
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: all and the colorism of it all. She's not just
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: this black woman who was a prop for this guy.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: She's a very light skinned, very traditionally beautiful black woman
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: who was a prop not just for this man, but
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: a prop for these capitalist art consumers who get to
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: throw ship at her. The color politics of it also
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: feel weird, especially when you think about, all right, who
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: was most hurt by the excesses of the late stage capitalism,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Women in particularly dark color yeah, and black women yeah.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: And so if anything, a film that's a commentary on
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: late stage capitalism should be centered around women because they're
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: going to bear the brunt of the burden of all
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: that bullshit they always do. And there was like a
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: fair amount. I mean, I it sucks. I wish that
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: this had been kind of a more public discussion. I Caitlin,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: were you able to find any example of Boots Riley
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: addressing this, because he I wasn't able to find a
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: quote of that, because he does tend to be like,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: he seems like kind of open to like having those discussions.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: I just wasn't able to find evidence of this discussion specifically,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I was able to find it.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Did find him in an interview. I forget which YouTube
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: interview it was, but you know, I was kind of
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: fooling around on YouTube. Ever heard of it? Oh? And
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: the interviewer had a different perspective and said the it, Um,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: you know, Tessa Thompson's character is so well developed. How
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: like how did you go about developing her? And he said, like, oh,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I basically wrote myself into that character. Um, I didn't
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: like write down direct quotes, but that like paraphrasing is
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: is what he said, I mean, which which I do
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: definitely see because he's like an artist making making a
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, making radical anti capitalist statements. Yeah,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: but in doing that, he's also, like you mentioned Sam,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: like giving her a very like sexualized body centric piece
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: of performance art, and he's like, I just it feels
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: like a very valid criticism to say that he's like
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: not putting black women's experiences like front and center in
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: this film, and it undercuts what he's trying to say
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: with the rest of the movie by making Tessa Thompson
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: like a tool versus a character. I maybe it's just
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: because the bar for developing women in movies is so low,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: and especially for characters who are like the love interest
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: of the male protagonist, who get like usually zero characterization.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: I actually felt that Detroit got more characterization than we
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: are used to seeing. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: like it was a shining example, but I would argue
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: that we know more about her than we know about
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Salvador or Squeeze. Sure, a lot of what she does
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: is very contingent on her relationship with Cash, But the
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: fact that we even know that she's an artist and
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: we see her do her art and we see her
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: like at an art show in a scene that doesn't
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: need to be in the movie, but it was intentionally
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: put there. I was. I was on the fence because
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I do I don't know like all the mechanics that
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: play in that scene where you're seeing her art, I
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: feel I I feel like, ultimately, for me, the concept
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: of art was better characterized and explored than she herself
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: care was, and like knowing that Boots Riley saw himself
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: as like was was putting a lot of himself into that,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: that kind of helps clarify it because it's like, it's
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: not like, you know, being an artist that wants to
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: use their body as a part of their art is
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: inherently bad. Like I used I do that ship all
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: the time. So but it's like, because it's a straight
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: man writing a woman's art, like it just I feel
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: like it gets so messy. It did feel messy, And
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: the thing that really stuck out to me was I
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: felt she was framed as kind of like the prize
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: to be one back at the end when like you know,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: cash triumphs. And of course there's the very well worn
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: trope of a male hero, you know, getting the girl
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: at the end of the movie as a way to signify, look,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: how awesome he is, look at how much he deserves
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: like a woman's body and a woman's love, Like this
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: is his reward for the heroic thing he did. That
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: felt pretty glaring, and I kept waiting for that to
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: be pushed back on in because this movie is so
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: self aware about so many issues, but this is just
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: like not really one of him well, and it felt
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: like they were trying to juxtapose almost these parallel mirror
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: images of the way capitalism makes you compromise your morals
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: through the Keats character and through Tessa's character. But the
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: whole time we're seeing this complexity with the Key's character
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: in this conflict, and like he's really a great guy,
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: but he has to make these choices for the money. Ostensibly,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Tessa Thompson's character is doing the same thing, making these
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: artistic choices for the money to support her art, but
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: there's never time given to her to be that complex
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: and to be that nuanced. She's almost painted in that
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: scene where the Sheep's buddished on her as a sellout.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: And even though lakeiths perhaps the bigger sellout in the movie,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: he's never really painted as such. He's always just compromised
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: and in distress and has to do what he has
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: to do. That felt weird as well, like there's a
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: version of this movie where you let them truly be
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: mirror images and they both get equal tire and equal
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: space to be conflicted. Yeah, that's because it is like
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: the question that Detroit's character is exploring is so interesting
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: and like one that is clearly and like understandably haunting
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Boots Riley, and so it's like why not give that
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: equal precedence. And it's almost more interesting because it's like,
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: I know the answer for the Lakeith question. You know,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: capitalism that makes employees slaves is inherently bad. Yes, we
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: get that. It's a much harder conversation when you talk
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: about a responsibility and artist has two money. A responsibility
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: an artist has to sustain ability and keeping their art going.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: That's almost a more interesting question to ponder. And Boots
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Riley just didn't really do it. And that's the true question.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: That's more relative. I mean, that's like I think about
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: all the time of like we have a feminist podcast
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: on I Heart Radio, Like so yeah, got money, right,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Like you have to make these compromises, yeah, and those
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: are I mean I listen, I read ad copy now
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: and I'm just like, whoa, this is why right? Like
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Loft just reading ad like for what But like that
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: is the kind of like stomach crawling stuff that I
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: feel like Boots Riley is well equipped to do. I
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: don't know why, like even outside of the fact that there,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. And then did you
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: have other writers on this film or was it just
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: him he's the only credited writer. It was this was
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: like a labor of love for him, as as far
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: as I could tell, this was something he was working
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: on for years and years and years. The full screenplay
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: was published in McSweeney's back in teen um. He finished
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: the first draft in Yeah. Wow. So here's the thing.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: It's funny that you tell me that, because it makes
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: me think of a man, a male writer that we
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: mentioned before in this chat, Mike White, who did The
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: White Lotus Um. I realized the biggest critiques I had
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: of that show, and the plot holes that he let
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: get through could have probably been answered or solved they're
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: spoken to if he had just had some other writers.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of times we reward these often
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: male writers for having this particular unique vision that they
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: hold close to their hearts for a decade or more
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: and make art and make work out of. But it's like,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: your work would be better, Mike White, Boots Riley if
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: there were women in the room, people not like you
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: in the room, people who see the world differently than
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: you in the room, and you're still the boss. You
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: can preserve your central vision, but everyone could use some
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: help in those regards. And I just feel like this
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: is an example of a male screenwriter having a great
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: idea but not getting enough notes. Yeah yeah, because it's
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: it's and and with this story in particular, Like I
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: totally see what you're saying, Caitlin about Like we do
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: know more about Detroit than we would know about a
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: lot of like quote unquote love interest characters in any movie.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: And it maybe would like bother me less if there
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: were other women around who we like gott to look into.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: But because it's like the only woman we get to know,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: and also the only black woman we get to know,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: her body is used to kind of half explore a
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: topic that the movie doesn't quiet land on an answer to.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: And it's a who she gonna pickan, I don't know.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: It's just like, and I totally agree Sambler. It's like
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: if you had a woman take a pass way, higher
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: likelihood that that would have been caught and expanded on
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: or like scale back or whatever the solution would have been.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Definitely I'm wonder and I guess I want to ask,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: how do you all survive as fans of movies, watching
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: and reviewing and going back over movies and this with
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: this critical lens, do you just give up a lot
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: of movies? As we always say, everyone is allowed to
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: love whatever they love, whatever they grew up loving. We
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: just ask people to be critical of the media they consume.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: You can still love something that you know isn't perfect
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: and that has issues. I mean, goodness knows, I love
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of problematic shit still because if you only
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: loved things that were absolutely flawless when it comes to
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: like intersectional feminist analysis, Chicken Run, Chicken Run, and that
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: and that in mel Gibson's in that. So you still can't,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: you know, love it fully. We have nothing. We have
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: no there's not there's nothing. So you know, we we
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: do kind of you know, you do kind of have
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: to make like compromise is as as far as your
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: tastes and the media that you consume. It's just all about,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: you know, having the conversations about the issues in the
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: things you love. Yeah, you know, it's it's thinking about
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: how different this film might have been if a woman
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: were helping write it, or anybody other than Boosts were
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: helping him write it. The thing that was lost in
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: this discussion in the film about the plight of the
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: low age worker is that a lot of low wage workers,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: and a lot of low wage workers who are women
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: who identify as a women. They are often taking care
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: of somebody else. They are often raising a child or
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: more by themselves. They are often taking care of an
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: ailing older relative by themselves, And the entire equation of
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: how you work and how you live is affected by
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: that reality. And I think the story would have had
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: even more depth than Richness if the low wage worker
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: at the center of this movie we're also a caregiver,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: We're also a woman like that, Like that's the reality.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: And I just feel like Boots Riley Boot Riley's commentary
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: about late capitalism through this movie, it kind of ignores
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: who is usually the default low wage worker. It's a
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: woman exploited worker, right, and the most vulnerable workers, right,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: especially because like women not only have to deal with,
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: you know, their labor being exploited in the workplace, they
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: also often have to deal with sexism and sexual harassment.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: But instead we see in this movie um caper Lance
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: character is sexually harassing cash. Not to say that doesn't happen,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: but likely it's less likely, although you know, there's a
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: conversation to be had about like white people sexualizing black
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: bodies and you know, black male bodies, and but um,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if the movie is trying to
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: make intention on that, right, I wasn't really sure it
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: wasn't the Yeah, I wasn't going now far. I wasn't
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: sure what the intention was. But yeah, you know, women
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: have to deal with a lot of extra things usually,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: and I do get like, I think we've had conversations
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: like this before where sometimes, oh, I'm actually thinking of,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: what was that Sofia Coppola movie we covered a bajillion years,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: so the Big Guild, the Big Guild, right where she
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: was adapting an older movie that had a black character
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: in it. But Sofia Coppola said at the time, well,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: that's not my experience, so I just wrote up the character,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: which is such an absurd reaction. I will say one
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: thing about Sofia Coppola. She is unabashedly white. She doesn't
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: she is not apologized before I will say, love the
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: blame ring, love the blame, white chaos, and it's fine.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I hate that, Oh it's good. But she I mean,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: she yes, she is. She is Aspen white, she is
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Boston white. She is white white, but like that was
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: and she, I mean in the style you're describing, like
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: in the most white woman's style. She was like, well, yes,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: there was originally a black woman in the original movie.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: People had a lot of criticism of how she was written.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: And I'm not a black woman and no one else
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: is writing on this movie, so I just wrote that
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: character out and you're like, that is well. And this
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: is a thing with like people is powerful in the
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: industry of Sofia Coppola. They can actually budget as many
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: writers as they want for their projects, right, Like it's
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: a choice. It's a choice, Like Boots Riley, you know what,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: maybe this was a maybe this was like a total
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: indie project. He had no money, enough funding, no help.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: But Sophia, you've got resources, right, yeah, no excuse. And
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: she's just like choosing to be ignorant and erase people
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: from her narrative that she doesn't understand or care about.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Like although it is predicted, like I know what I'm
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: in for when I watch a Sofia Coppola movie, White Chaos, right,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Like there's no question marks there truly, So I'm not
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: it's not it's not a one to one with that
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: situation in Boots Riley. But it does remind me of
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: like like the critiques you were you were making about
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: tours in general earlier, Sam, where it's like, oh, well,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: if I you know, Boots Riley doesn't understand women's experiences,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: so he kind of shies away from exploring them in
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: this movie versus bringing someone else in who could help
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: him more fully realize that experience and improve the movie. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Well it's weird because like film inherently a so collaborative.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: You've seen film shoots is dozens of people doing this
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: ship and then don't even talk about posts, right, Like
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: everything we see on the screen has had dozens if
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: not more people involved, and yet so many writers are
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: like I can only do this part myself. It's a weird.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's an ego thing most of
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: the time or and Charlie, it could have been a
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: budget thing too, And I know that this was like
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: a you know, labor of love for him and three
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: point two million, it's like a three It was like
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: a three million dollar budget. That's a low budget for
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: a little budget. I mean, I love Boots Riley, like
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like this is the sort of thing where
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: it's like, I would be really surprised if his next
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: project came out and the same issues were present. Like,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like unlike Sofia Couple. He seems like
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: an artist who actively does want to like grow and
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: learn and all this all this ship um, but it did.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: It was interesting that it was like, oh, it felt
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: to me of like, well, I want to have, you know,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: these characters in the movie, but I don't fully understand
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: the experience. So it's like I'll just focus on more
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: of what I know, and that's more of like l
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Keith Stanfield's experience because Boots Riley also this story was
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: like pulling from his own life where he used to
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: work in telemarketing when he just started making music to
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: make ends meet. And so it's like, even though I
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: guess he's exploring the art side of himself through Tasa
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Thompson's character, the more like direct experience analog um, at
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: least at the beginning of the movie is the Keith
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Stanfield character right. Fun fact, I did tell the marketing
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: years ago for four days there's no way, and I
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: got paid out for four days of training. Oh my god,
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: route what were you marketing? I didn't find out WHOA.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I think it was something cable related. Shout out West
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Telemarketing r I P. I think they're dead now. I
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: don't know. I have a I have complicated feelings about
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: this because I wonder if maybe it's just because the
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: movie accomplishes and comments on so much else that I'm like,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I'm a little bit more lenient with it, because I mean,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: so many movies that take a very sexist approach to
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: characterizing the women also are bad in many other ways.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: But this movie, it has a strong agenda, anti capitalist agenda.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: It's very pro union, it's pro working class, it's it's
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: pro black in a really beautiful way, for sure. It's
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: it's you know, commenting on police brutality, it's commenting on
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: cultural appropriation. It's you know, it's handling a lot of
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: stuff and it's right, and it's like no movie has
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: to handle like everything I think like. But I do
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: feel like, I don't know, for the for the purposes
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: of our movie, does Chicken Run Chicken Run the most
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: progressive film of all time? Well, in part preas it's
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: probably free from a lot of these constraints of race
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: and gender, politics. It's chicken because they're chickens. Because they're chickens.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Although they are gendered, right, they are gendered, They're very gendered.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Refer to our episode on Chicken Run for the dission,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: I'm going to rewatch the movie and then listen to
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: the episode. My my evening is set. It's a Chicken
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Run kind of afternoon. Okay, it is one of our
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Patreon episodes, so it is behind because but also happy
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: to contribute. I'm I'm here for it. Did you just
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: sell our guest on our patreots. I'm speaking. I am
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: speaking to the to the everyone who is listening who
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: might be interested in the Chicken Run episode, letting them
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: know setting expectations. You know, No, I totally agree with you.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: And it's like and we never want to like set
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: the bar of like every movie needs to tackle every topic.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: We complete realization and perfectly. But but I think just
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: for me, like it's because this movie has such a
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: strong progressive agenda and black women are so frequently um
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: left out for sure of progressive narratives. It's like worth mentioning. Definitely,
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: no doubt about it. I do want to share a
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: quote from Tessa Thompson from an interview on on the
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Build series YouTube channel, she was asked why she wanted
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: to be in this movie, and she said, quote, I've
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: always wanted to make a film that hung out in
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: the space of magical realism. So many of the films
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: that I love sort of used that filmically, and for
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, there are never any black or brown people
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: in those narratives. So I just always assumed that I
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: would never get to make a film like that unquote,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: which very true most fantasy, sci fi, magical realism, surrealist.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, we were talking about the current Lord of
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: the Rings discourse somehow going on at the beginning of
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: this episode, like it's ridiculous, right, So you know, happy
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: for her that she got to be in a movie
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: like in the genre that she wanted to be in.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: But yeah, still, but I still wish that they've done
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: a better job with the character. But also though, if
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: you are a black actor or actress in Hollywood, a
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: black woman in Hollywood, I'm guessing you're for the work.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: It's still a hard landscape. I mean, it's much better
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: than it was twenty years ago. But like a lot
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: of times, you got to just take the job. You
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: take the job, you know. So I'm never gonna like
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: begrudge Tessa for this role in this movie. And I'm
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: not even going to get that mad at Boots, but
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I am going to say, like learn something from this. Yeah,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: And I just feel like he will, like I know
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: he will. And the industry has changed. I think a
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: lot that would have been okay when that movie was
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: made isn't okay anymore. Yeah, which which does which is
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: heartening because this is only four years ago. So yeah,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: like I for listen, like it is a smaller issue
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: within a movie that's accomplishing a lot, but you know,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: worth addressing. I'm glad. I'm glad that we are discussing it. Yeah,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: I just didn't know. I mean, does either of you
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: know a lot about Boots Riley's life before I knew
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: who he was, Like I knew he was a musician,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: but I just didn't know that he grew up in
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: in like a really really progressive pro union, Like he
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: was raised by organizers, he like did all this cool ship,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Like he went to Oakland High School and was organizing
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: student walkouts when he was like fourteen years old, and
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: just like his whole life has been defined by these
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: causes of pro union, pro black, anti capitalist organization. And
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: it is like so fucking cool to see that like
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: realized so clearly in a movie that is so good,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: like it is, it's it's fucking awesome, it's good. Well,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: and I mean like he is just part of a
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: really large, big, looming legacy of like black people in
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: the Bay Area, specifically black people in Oakland. They've always
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: been on that liberation theology. They've always been radicalized fighting
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: for justice. This is where the Black Panthers are doing
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: their ship. Like there's a strong legacy there that Boots
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Riley is a part of. And that's a beautiful thing.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: You know. It's even in spite of the flaws that
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: we've talked about in this film, to see this creative,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: artistic work that comes out of a long lineage of
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: black activism in the East Bay. It comes out of that, Like,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: that's nice to see that. It's so fucking cool, Like
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Boots really the cool. And it's like how many of
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: are like like are like big directors are like publicly
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: identify as communists, Like that's wild, that's so cool. Well,
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: and then even to see how we handled the whole
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Oscar campaign for it, which was to not it's like
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: good on you man, like the system get bigger fish
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: to fry like it's uh yeah, nothing. But he's making
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: a show right now. What is the name of the shows?
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: He's like, that's his next project. Because I was like,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: where where is he? What's he been doing? He's making
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: a TV show called I'm a Virgo. That's all I know.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: When it comes out as a tourist, I'm a dide.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: I can't relate as a Leo. I don't care. But
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: it's not about me, so I don't care. Yeah, as
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: as as a Leo. Virgos are frightening to me, but
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: it is. It is Virgo season, and it's a big
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: year for virgos because Beyonce released a new album publicly
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: discussing her virgo Yes, oh she she had a seven
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: minute song called Virgos Groove on it in her bag
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: that said, I do feel like every year Leo season
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: is too short. We deserve six months. But whatever, I agree,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: I agree. So shall we talk about what we feel
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: the movie is accomplishing successfully? Yeah, and it's so much.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: It's so like I feel like this is one of
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: the more at least like modern movies that really clearly
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: addresses pro union issues in a way that is I
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: don't don't I don't know what exactly how to phrase this,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: but like, I like when movies show you like you
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: could basically watch this movie and have some sort of
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: understanding of like this is how a union movement build,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't feel like it's bopping you over the
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: head with it. You see Steven Jan's character like explaining
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: it basically, like through his actions, and also just because
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Cash doesn't know a lot about unionizing, He's just like, yeah,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: this sounds good, but like, what is it? And I
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: just like that Over the course of this movie, you
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: see them like build union power and see like the
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: upsides of it, and they you know, when they organize
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: the like phones down moment that is effective for them,
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: and then like but then also seeing the other side
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: of it where people are losing their jobs. They start
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: to use police force to try to um to try
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: to oppress union workers as the protests get bigger, and
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, there's not a lot of movies that
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: have an interest in showing the ups and downs of that.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: And they win, It's like a hollow victory, but they win.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: Kind of like piggybacking off of the police force being used.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's like pretty active commentary on cops
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: using brutality to protect the ruling class and their property
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: rather because they are seeing routinely in the movie beating
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: the crap out of the protesters on the picket line
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: for simply exercising their right to protest, and they are
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: punished violently for it. So I again, not a lot
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: of movies are interested in exploring that. And then on
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: top of that, like there's there's I don't know, revisiting
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: it for this episode was fun because I kind of
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: forgot how like nuanced that because it's like the movie
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: is very very clearly pro union, but the protagonist is
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: a union scab. Like he's still going to work, he's
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: still getting promoted up the ladder, and like he ultimately
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: quote unquote pays a price for it. But I did
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: appreciate that it wasn't like like like his predicament was
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: really clearly contextualized, where it wasn't just like scabs are
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: the devil, and while you don't as if you agree
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: with what he's doing, you're like made to understand like
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: why he's doing it because his uncle is going to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: lose his house, Like he needs income not just for
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: himself but for his family, and and like making those
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: choices under the circumstances are not easy. So it's like
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: should he have been a union scab? I think it's
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: really easy to say no. But they also very clearly
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: set up at least the reason why he starts to
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: do it. I think why he continues to do it
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: is like capitalist ship, but the reason he starts is
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: clear and in the same way of just like in
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: the space of a line um, they contextualize Terry Cruz's
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: like role as a lad and lord of it's really like, yeah,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: fuck landlords. Uh, this particular landlord is his uncle and
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: is going to lose his house. And it's like this
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: whole Domino line of who is exploiting, who is exploiting who?
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: It breaks your brain a little bit, right, And again
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: it's it's the movie exploring why people uphold the status
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: quo that is capitalism. Often it's for survival reasons, like
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: capitalism does force a lot of people to compromise their
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: values simply to survive and to like make enough money
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: to have a place to live and to feed yourself
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: and feed and take care of your family if you
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: have one. And then as far as like once you
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: reach that, because Cash is then able to move into
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: a nice place and buy an expensive car and all
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: this stuff, Um, why does he continue to uphold the
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: status quo? Could be apathy? And then it also like
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: I was wondering about that for like the Mr. Beep character,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: he is a black man, but he's always using his
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: white voice. He tells Cash is to always use his
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: white voice. We don't get any context for why he
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: is making these choices, but I don't know. It just
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: felt like an examination of like how capitalism and gaining
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: wealth warps a lot of people's brains and manipulates them
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: into making a lot of ethical compromises. Yeah, and and
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: and you see that right away when when Cash starts
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: his job where one of the first calls he makes
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: is to an elderly woman who he is trying to
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: scam because his job to scam her, and she it's like,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: I don't have any money, my husband has stage four
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: cancer and and just like breaks down in tears. And
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: then Cash has to compartmentalize that experience and that you know,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: like he knows, but he has to eat, and he
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: had like he's going to get kicked out of his place.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: And it's like you see right away that even when
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: he's not getting paid, he has to morally compromise himself
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: in order to you know, in the pursuit of maybe
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: getting paid. It's just like it's so it's so fucking
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: bleak and it feels terrible, but it's so well done.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: It is well and like it like for me, Like
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: the things that I love about this movie are really lovable. One,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: it's really fun to look at. It's visually arresting and stunning,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: and it just pops in a way that feels delightful,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: even of the topic area is pretty dark. And then
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: besides that, it's a really great showcase of some amazing
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: actors who were all doing really great work. You've got
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: like Heat Stanfield, Tessa Thompson, Steven Yourn, Kate Berlant, I
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: could go on Terry cruises in there. Like, there's a
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: lot of good people in this movie. Danny Glover. To
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: see him pull this cast together and make it all
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: work on the budget of three million dollars, that's like commendable.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: So I don't want to dismiss that like every actor
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: in this movie is great and they're all doing the work.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Like Tessa's role is flawed, but she plays the funk
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: out of her role for sure. And there and and
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: like you're saying earlier, caitl, there's so much going on
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: in this movie. The fact that, like the landing is
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: stuck on so many issues is like all whole Like
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: these amazing performances are happening. It's I mean, this is
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: like this, this is one of my favorite movies. It's
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: so good. It's so good, and it's like beautiful to
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: look at and it makes you feel horrible, right and
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: I mean it it takes some pretty wild narrative risks too,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: with like suddenly there's horse people in the movie. I
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: remember when that because that gets revealed maybe like two
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: thirds of the way through the movie, and I was
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: just like, oh, I was not expecting this. I was
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: not expecting to see an enormous horse penis in my face.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: Um and yet really wild yet and yet the other
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess just on the I mean, if
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: we were unpacking every single thing this movie is saying
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: about capitalism, we would be here for a long time.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: But just a few things that stuck out to me.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: Outside of um, I mean, I love Squeezes character, not
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: just because Steven jon is also in my top tier
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: celebrity crush pyramid, but of course because I really like
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: that there is a whole character dedicated to building union
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: power the only thing that let I mean, and I
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: totally get why he's like I should be Tessa Thomps's boyfriend,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: like you know, but outside of that, I mean the
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: worry free commentary, I feel like it's a really clear
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: stab at Amazon warehouses and just factory labor in general
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: and all the labor abuses that take place there across
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: the world. Like yes, and that's also what I loved
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: about this film, Like it was super wrong. The fucking knows,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: you know, right away they're talking about Amazon, and like
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: thank you for that, like say it cash is green,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: Yes exactly, I love it, Like it's so good. And
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: then Squeeze says something like when you're showing a problem
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: but you have no idea how to control it, you
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: just get used to the problem, which I feel is
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: how a lot of people react to what I was
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: talking about earlier, as far as like people upholding the
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: status quo of capitalism you're just like, well, I know
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like a corporate sellout, but I don't know really
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: what else to do or like what can me one
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: person possibly accomplished to like unravel this institution so that
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: you just sort of like get used to it, quote unquote,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: and like he's just like boost rally is like making
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: all these kind of like super leftist borderline actually commune
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: as talking points of the fact that and through the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: character of Squeeze and also through some of like what
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: cash is fox up where I thought like one of
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: the most effective parts of the movie was the whole
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: like viral culture stuff, which was super on the nose
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: as well, but I just thought it was better done
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: than I've seen it done almost anywhere else. I feel
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: like a lot of movies and TV shows right now
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: are trying to like unravel that a little bit. And
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: I like the idea that it's like you get Danny
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: Glover's perspective on um, I got the ship kicked out
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: of me, where you know, like Squeeze is like, oh
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: this is so fucking humiliating, this is so depressing, and
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Danny Glover's like this is the best show ever like
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: that like just whatever the whole like reality TV culture
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: thing of like, well, I feel like I'm getting the
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: ship kicked out of me every day. At least I
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: don't have it as bad as that guy. And then
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: like the super simple like I forgot about it before
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: rewatching it. But that moment where the woman who throws
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: the can at the Keith's head she becomes a viral
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: star and a spokeswoman for the soda company. I forgot
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: about that phazing, Like it's so small that, yeah, it's
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: like blinking, you'd miss it. But it's like she also
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: sells out because I'm sure that soda company offered her
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: a huge fucking check to sell out the act she
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: took at a union protest and monetize it into being
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: a soda mascot. And that how like Cash has to
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: like leverage his viral fame, Like would he be able
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: to get on TV if he hadn't gotten hit in
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: the head with a soda can? Probably not? And then
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: when he achieves that, he goes on like Jimmy Fallon
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: and tells people to call their congressman, which boots Riley
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: clearly thinks it's useless because Squeeze says that in the
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: next scene where he's like, you know, people, it makes
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: people feel good to call their congress person because they
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: feel like they're doing something to address a problem they
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: actually have very little power to change, which is like
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: I think very like based on what I know about
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: Boots Riley, it is just like his his politics, and
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: it's all done so like smoothly, and it also like
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: looks so cool and that I just yeah, that little undercurrent,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: like towards the end of the movie, I just loved it.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: It's so good. And then when um Cash tries to
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: expose worry Free for this like horse people thing they're doing,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: it just drastically spikes the stock of worry Free and
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: no one gives a ship. They're like, oh, worry Free
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: is even cooler than I thought. On the news, they're
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: calling it like scientific innovations from genius Steve Lift, like,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: and it's not until like a violent uprising happens that
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't even I don't even know how much
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: it actually changes the world because then we just like
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: zone in back on Cash and he's just sort of
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: like reconciling his personal life at the end of the movie.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: But um and just the idea of like I don't know,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: like it just goes against I guess traditional movie logic,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: not that you're conditioned to believe you're watching a traditional
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: movie at all, but like I remember kind of falling
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: for it the first time, where it's like, by the
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: end of the movie, Cash has he done a lot
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: of legal crimes, Yes, but he's learned his lesson, He's
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: learned the error of his ways. He's a union man now,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: he's like back to where he started, but with all
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: the knowledge that he's learned over the course of the movie,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: and maybe things are going to be all right. But
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: the movie kind of suggests like, well, the reality isn't
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: that simple, Like he did learn something, but it's too
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: late to go back to the way things were. And
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: then another thing that we haven't really touched on yet
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: that the movie comments on is code switching and Cash
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: having to code switch to make sales and turn more
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: profits for the company, which is based on Boots Riley
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: again working as a telemarketer, you know, back in the day,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: and finding that he needed to put on a different
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: voice to find success quote unquote at this job. I've
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: got to I've got a quote from him here from
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: from a Guardian interview from when the movie came out. Yeah,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: speaking to this point, he said, quote, you try to
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: obscure the fact that you're black, just on the very
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: basic level of trying to make someone feel like you're
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: like them, and on the more racist level of someone
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: being okay giving you their credit card information. That's what
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: I was pulling from. Unquote Yeah, well, and like it
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: was nice for me to see it just like made
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: so plain and so clear. I think, like in other spaces,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: no one is asking you to coach with but they're
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: expecting it, and there are like gradations of the codes,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: which like I worked in public radio for twelve years
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: and no one's ever telling you to sound more white,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: but you get it, and you get who the audience is.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: And so to see code switching as a phenomenon and
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: a problem punched up to like the highest level, I
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: don't know if I'm refreshing. I thought that part of
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: the film was handled perfectly because it's honestly true. It's
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: still true. And then in addition to that, so there
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: are instances where characters want him to quote unquote act
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: more white, and then other cases where they want him
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: to like lean into racist stereotypes Basically that part where
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Steve Lift is when he's forced to wrap, but he's
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: just he makes this improvisational rap song where it's just
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: him saying nigga shit over and over and over again.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: This is after he got to that very room where
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: he gets to wrap nigga shit by talking white. I mean,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: it is a perfect encapsulation of the conundrum of black
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: success in America. You have to be both very black
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: and not at all black to make it, and there's
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: always some white person or a white pressure or power
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: telling you how to do it. It's weird and like,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: he did get that right, and that's why it's like,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: you know, gosh, I wish he would have gotten gender
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: better as well, but he got that really right. And
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: that Steve Lift once cash he knows that his worry
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: free employees are going to revolt. He's like, yeah, they're
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: probably going to revolt, so I need someone on the
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: inside to be m okay. Yeah, He's like, and I'll
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: give you a hundred million dollars to do it, because
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: you doing that will like I can still spend a
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: hundred million dollars on that. That will be chunk change
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: compared to the billions he will make exploiting the labor
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: of the Equi sapiens, this freaky horse eugenics project. Yeah,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: that whole sequence, Like I mean, and that is the
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: movie goes so off the rails, but it's so like
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: it's so good. The sequence where Army Hammer like puts
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: pressure on on Cash to rop which he's like, I
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: don't do that, and he's like, well, yes you do,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: because he's racist. And then it's like on Cash to
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: empower this room full of white executives to wrap the
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: N word along with him, which they gladly do, and
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: then he goes, which is like lah. And then in
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: that scene, I just thought it was because like the
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: Steve the Steve List character, I feel like it's like,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of an amalgamation of all these billionaire
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: white tech bros. Where it's like there's a little bit
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: of Elon Musk in them, there's a little bit of
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: Dan Bill's Arian and them. There's like a lot a
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: lot of these fucos are like all wrapped into this
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: one character. But I thought it was like interesting how
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: the character like repeatedly really wants Cash to understand that
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: he knows exactly what he's doing, but he's justified in
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: doing it, where he's like, well, I'm not evil, or
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: like when Cash discovers the first horse person who like
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: the experiment has gone wrong and they're in a a
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: lot of pain and he's afraid. He pisses himself and
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: like he wants to leave. Steve lifts only counterpoint is like, well, no,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: you should have watched this video before, because like, I
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: don't want you to think of doing this for no reason.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Like he's justified doing it to himself, because he's like,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: well it's I have a reason, and like whether the
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: reason is good doesn't matter. He just needs people to
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: know that there's a purpose. It's just so it's right.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: It's the mental gymnastics, the you know CEOs have to
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: do or who even knows what goes through a CEOs brain.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: There's a scene earlier on where you see an interview
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: with Steve Lift where he's responding to the claims that
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: worry free employment is basically slavery, and he's like, well,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: that's not true because people are saying that we make
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: the workers sign a lifelong contract under the threat of violence,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: and he's like, we don't do that under the threat
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: of violence, and therefore these claims are ridiculous. And meanwhile
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: he's running the company like the fucking Sea Org. You're like,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: this is so scary. Also, contracts are just so fucking
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: bogus period, Like they're bogus. It's funny. Like I've worked
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: in media now for twelve years, and the longer I
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: do it, the more you realize a lot of the
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: ship they have the talent signing never would never hold
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: up in the court of law. They just have you
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: sign it. This ship is so like nobody should ever
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: sign anything that has anything like a non compete in it.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: That's bullshit. It doesn't like it can't do it. I
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: don't know. Sorry, I'm just like sorry to rent here,
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: but like that part really spoke to me. It's curious,
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: Like the very nature of contracts is fake, right and fake,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: And it's like predicated on the idea that you should
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: be grateful for the opportunity, Like you're like, yeah, don't
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: read the fine print. And it's also predicated on the
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: idea of a threat. The threat of a really binding
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: contract is that you'll never have enough money to fight
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: this in court. That's a threat. And so they can
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: say that to you and know that you know that
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: even knowing that, like the stuff in the contract isn't
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: even that quite legal, but they know that you'll never
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: have enough money to take him accord on it. Anyways, Sorry,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: I digress. I know it's it's relevant. I feel like
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: we should talk about this stuff more. Yeah, yeah, like
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, and it's like you watch you watch Cash
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: make these what he is able to justify. We were
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: talking about this a little earlier, but I just again,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like Boots Riley, like he knows his ship backwards
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: and forwards where it's like it's not like I mean,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: I guess that the hundred million dollar quote unquote contract,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: which is a fucking meaningless scrap of paper, is the
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: big compromise. But Cash is asked to make these little
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: compromises over and over, and it's reassured that, like this
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: is temporary, you are a good person, And that's like
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: what Cash responds to. He wants to like build a
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: legacy in the capitalist sense, but he also needs to
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: think that he's a good person and so, which I
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: think is like a more relatable struggle than a lot
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: of people want to talk about. But it's like even
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: that first scene with him and Tessa Thompson's character where
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: he's like, I want to like make some sort of
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: mark on the world, and which is I think, like
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: whatever universal feeling. But how do you accomplish that without
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: hurting somebody? And so he has to be repeatedly reassured
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: throughout the movie that it's like this is it's just
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: for now, and it's starting in that scene that the
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: scene I feel like, even more so than the Steve
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: Left hundred million dollars thing, the first time that he
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: makes the big compromise while there's a union action happening
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: in the adjacent room, where he starts off like saying
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: fuck you, fuck you, and fuck you, and then within
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: two minutes he's completely capitulated, and it's yeah, he's like no, no, no, no,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: we're giving you a promotion. And he's like, well, all right,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: then take back my fuck you's and you know what
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: he's doing it like it's just a yeah, it's these
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: things are very complicated. And also that he he's good
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: at what he does, even though what he's doing is
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: like evil, morally bankrupt, but he takes pride in like
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: being good in his work, which is a very relatable thing.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: And another question to go back to Detroit for a second,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: and a question I had about her character that I
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: don't know the answer to. I kind of think like
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: it would have been another way to look at her character,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: because I don't mean this in a judgmental way, but
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: I was curious, like it seems like in the context
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: of this movie, she like one day is like, Okay,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: you've been a union scab for too long and now
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: we need to break up. And I was like, what,
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: Like why now? How is she able to justify staying
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: with him for so long? Like all are just questions
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: I would have liked to see it explored through the
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: story a little more without needing to add in like
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: Squeeze as a an alternate boyfriend in order to accomplish
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: because it's like her politics are very clear. Obviously this
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: is a big problem for them, but as Keith's character
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: points out, she's enjoying the spoils of what he's doing.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: She's living in this nicer apartment. She is like she
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: is partaking and compromised in some way in the way
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: that everybody is. I don't know, it's just like another
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: question that it was like that would have been cool
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: to see her explore outside of the context of this relationship. Indeed,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: does anyone have anything else they want to discuss? I
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: think I've given you all I want to give. Yeah.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: My last thing is that they credited the horse animation
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: video to Michelle Dongre and that made me laugh, right, yeah, Michelle,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: all right. So as far as the Bechdel test, it
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: does not pass, doesn't. Yeah, women don't interact. I thought
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: we would get a throw away. We did not, not
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: even that. And again it's like, not the be all
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: end all. It is a metric that was made as
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: a one off thing, but it does feel relevant here. Yeah,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: but what is the be all end all media metric
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: is the nipple scale? Are perfect flawless metric? Perfect metric
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: in which we rate a movie zero to five nipples
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. And
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: for this movie, I mean, it's it's a tricky one
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: because again, it is handling a lot of things very well.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: It's it's handling issues surrounding class and race extremely well
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: and thoughtfully. As far as how it handles gender, though,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: as we've discussed, not quite so good. I guess I
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: would because of that probably just split it down the
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: middle and give it two point five nipples. I'll give
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: one to Tessa Thompson, I will give one to the
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: Keith Stanfield, my crush, and um, I'll give my half
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: nipple to Boots Riley. Oh maybe. I Yeah. This is
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: this is again a brain breaker because I think of
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: all the issues this movie explores effectively, gender is maybe
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: the least effectively explored issue. I'm gonna go three because
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: I just think that this movie is doing so much
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: right and it's one of my favorites, so I'm also biased.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I totally agree with what you're saying, Caitlin.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: I think that it is like worth discussing that there
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: is only like one main female character and that she
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: is very much used as a UM, I don't know
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: she's she is more than just a girlfriend character. I
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: think that, like, I don't want to be reductive to
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: the character of Detroit, but it's just like very underexplored.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: We don't have a second woman for her to talk to.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: And because you know, black women's experiences are so under
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: explored in media in general, the fact that this huge
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: leftist movie kind of skirts around giving her an actual
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: narrative feels uncool. I don't love it, but I love
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: so much about this movie. It's like the absolute fucking best. Um.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: I mean again, right up there with Chicken Run. And
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: that's a huge compliment coming from me. I'm not going
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: to put it there. I'm going to give it. I'm
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: gonna give it a two and a half. I think,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: like what I loved about it the first one or
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: two times I watched it was not negated, but put
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: in different focus after I watched it through the Bechdel lens,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: and I just think that, like, we have to continue
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: to ask in to do better, and so Boots, do better.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: You've got potential. We love you. Do better two and
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: a half. Let's hope fingers crossed that there's a lot
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: of good good ship in whatever the Virgo Show is.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: Don't know. Get a writer's room. That's the writer's room
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: room exactly, and make sure it's diverse. Yeah, Sam, thank
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: you so much for being here. It's pleasure. Where can
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: people follow you online? Check out your stuff? Plug away? Yeah?
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: I am at Sam Sanders on both Instagram and Twitter.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: S A M S, A N D E R S.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: And I have two weekly podcasts. I have a podcast
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: with my good friends Say Jones and Zach Stafford. We
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: chat about whatever. It's our group chat come to life.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: That show was called Vibe Check. Episodes drop every win day.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: And then I host a show for Vulture in New
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: York Magazine. It's called Into It. It is Vultures flagship
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: pop culture show all about the pop culture we can't
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: stop thinking about. That show publishes every Thursday, So Wednesdays
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: and Thursdays find me talking to you and all other
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: times find me at Sam Sanders wherever, and you can
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: follow us on social media at becktel Cast, Twitter, and Instagram.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: We of course have our Patreon slash Matreon where you
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: can find our Chicken Run episode along with over a
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: hundred other bonus episodes, all at patreon dot com slash
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast, and then you can get merch over at
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. Now, everyone,
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta go kill a billionaire because I'm
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: a horse, So I gotta get out of here. Same alright,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: Bye