Latest / The Family Teams Podcast / Shabbat Ep. 6 | Cultivating Identity Through Sabbath

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Shabbat Ep. 6 | Cultivating Identity Through Sabbath · The Family Teams Podcast

• 0:01
  Hi, welcome to the Family Teams Podcast. Our goal here is to help your family become a multi-generational team on mission by providing you with biblically rooted concepts, tools, and rhythms. Your hosts are Jeremy Pryor and Jefferson Bethke, and this season is all about crafting a family-friendly day of rest.
• 0:19
  We'll talk about the biblical idea of Sabbath, hear testimonies from different families, and also discuss practical ways to do this with kids. Make sure you give us a follow so you don't miss out on future episodes.
• 0:36
  All right, guys. Well, we are here to talk about the progression of the prior family in this thing called our Shabbat or our Sabbath, particularly the meal, but we'll probably dip into a couple of areas of how we did our day of rest. But this definitely evolved. And so probably one of the biggest things that families say to us when we start talking about this is, okay, that's great. You guys have all these grandparents over. You
• 1:01
  You cook all this nice meat. You're like having these nice dishes and you have older kids. But what was it like when, you know, you had little kids and they were kind of chaotic and you were trying to get started? That would be actually a lot more helpful because that's where we're at. And so we want to make sure that we are talking about the whole progression.
• 1:22
  And we've been practicing this for, I don't know, maybe 17 years. And so Kelsey, my daughter and April, my wife, we're all here to try to walk through the timeline of how this happened in our family. So Kelsey and April, thanks for joining me today. You're welcome. You're welcome.
• 1:42
  So as you guys look back, maybe Kelsey, I'll start with you and then we'll, what's your earliest memory of like when we started doing Shabbat, what's kind of, how far back does, does that go for you? Um, so I remember when we were at the brick house, so I was in like kindergarten to second grade in that house. And, um, yeah.
• 2:09
  I remember going to a department store. I don't know if this is after we started Shabbat or before or like right at the beginning, but I remember going to a department store and they had this big display of dishes that were like three dimensional, very clunky, huge dishes that were had like grape vines all over them. And there was also a chest with grape vines all over it. And we got like all of them.
• 2:35
  Um, we got like the mugs and the plates and the bowls and the chest and everything. And those were our Shabbat dishes. And so we could only use them on Shabbat. And I don't remember the Yankee candle story, but I assume that was around the same time. If you're going to talk about that, when we got our candle and then actually doing like the dinners and stuff, I just remember like being really excited about having the grape juice and, um, yeah.
• 3:03
  I, I thought, oh, this is something that you dress up for. And I had this, like, I mean, I was, I was young, but it was like a pretty fancy dress. That was like my favorite dress. I'd wear like every fancy occasion. And so I'd wear that to dinner on Fridays. So those are probably my earliest memories. They're kind of scattered because I was pretty young, but yeah.
• 3:26
  Yeah, Kelsey was very, she was very into being pretty. And then she saw that this was kind of being set apart. And I would say that that may be like theme number one for us in the early stage was to set apart a meal. Because in that day, you're just trying to survive.
• 3:42
  We've got like, you know, we're cooking macaroni and cheese. We're just like trying to keep our kids going and trying to get through each meal. You know, we have five kids. So this was, you know, I mean, at the time we might have only had four, but this was a really challenging, busy season for our family. And so I think what we were really trying to figure out is how do we make this meal feel different? And so I remember when we, you know, going to that department store and getting those meals.
• 4:08
  those kinds of ridiculous plates, uh, part of, I, I think now looking back, I understand why they were on closeout because I remember walking into the department store and they were like super cheap. I'm like, you know, you can't possibly not know you're practicing a different meal with, you're eating on plates that look like this. So thick it took up like three rungs in dishwasher. I like it.
• 4:29
  That's right. Ever since then, April is very adamant. We buy plates to fit in a dishwasher. That's one of the prerequisites. We don't buy plates to fit in a whole dishwasher.
• 4:40
  Oh man. Okay. So we were trying to figure out how to set this apart. We were using plates to say, okay, this is a different meal. We were using the candle. So like Kelsey referred to, I walked in a Yankee candle during the same time. Cause I know that, you know, like Jewish families, they like, they like candles. I didn't really know what that looked like. Like now I know that they light usually two nice, you know, formal looking white stick candles. Right. But I was like,
• 5:06
  you know, when I think of candle, I'll think of Yankee candle. So I walked in a Yankee candle and I was like, what is the scent that will never be retired? And they told me the sage and citrus will never be retired. So that became the scent of Shabbat. And we, again, we're just thinking of ways to set apart. So we had some plates. We had a scent that set apart the day.
• 5:33
  So April, what else do you remember from kind of the early stages? Yeah, it wasn't, I don't think we had been doing it for too long before we thought about getting a, um, a tablecloth and we found a place, I think online, which was kind of a new thing then shopping online. Um, yeah.
• 5:53
  And it was a white tablecloth and it was somehow connected to like a rabbi or like a Jewish company. We bought it from a Jewish company and it had Hebrew on it. And it says Shabbat Shalom on it. And like, you know.
• 6:07
  white on white. So you couldn't, it was kind of shimmery and we've had the same tablecloth all these years and we have spilled wine on it and grape juice and everything on it. And every, we wash it every week and it is still perfectly white. We joke that it's blessed by the rabbis or something like that, but that tablecloth definitely was part of it being set apart. As far as like the food went, um,
• 6:33
  Being in the kitchen and like coming up with creative meals is not something that gives me life. And, um, but it was something that, um, brings life to others because you're, um, helping them, you know, exist. And so that's kind of what's that.
• 6:51
  It brings life. Yes. Like food. Yeah. I'm a little bit obsessed too. Yes. Yes. So I, um, it was very challenging part of the struggle for me in that era was also coming up with a special meal amidst all the other stuff. And so I just didn't have a lot of energy for that. So I remember doing like crock pot, um, super easy meals that might not be the most tasty or the most like, um, you know,
• 7:20
  like special in that they're like a chef's, you know, a fancy meal, but they were, it was a way that I could prepare that ahead of time and it would be ready by the time. So, you know, like, and it was also, we didn't eat a ton of meat back then. I feel like we eat more meat now, but we, it would be like roast in the crock pot with a bunch of vegetables or something like that. That didn't take a ton of prep work. And yeah,
• 7:48
  even like the same meal every week. Cause I was like, Hey, I can't get that creative and this one works. So can we just have the same.
• 7:56
  Um, so early on, I think we had the same thing every week for a long time. Food wise. Make it easy on yourself. Yeah. Is there a meal like, and I think you really liked that. That helped you a lot to have a meal that you could actually prepare in the morning and just forget about. And then, you know, it magically be there for us in the evening. And that's how we ate. Yeah.
• 8:18
  Um, so, so it seems like the first step, and this is often true, I think for many families that are trying to figure this out is sustainability and some kind of amount of specialness. It's hyper sustainable. So when you have a tablecloth or you buy the dishes or you have a candle, you know, you don't have to think about it every week. It's not some new thing you have to invent. It's just like, you know, this is, this is what we do. And, and so, and I think that.
• 8:41
  something that the kids really latch onto, like, you know, special grape juice. And I remember we'd go to Costco and just buy tons of it so that, again, we don't ever have to think about it. We're like, because, you know, when you're first starting, you forget that it's Shabbat. Like, you don't like, oh, that's right. We're trying to do that meal thing, that dinner thing. And then you, it's so nice to be able to just go down to the basement and pick up one of those bottles of coffee.
• 9:05
  special grape juice and your kids are just like, yay, it's your bot. You know, of course, then they'll start reminding you over and over again, like, don't you think it's your bot? Is it today? And I'll ask every day, they'll ask you. That helps too. And then I think that once you go from get sustainable, you start moving towards like increasing the meaning of it. And that's often like, sometimes that'll get in your way if you try to do that first. And so there are various ways to do that. The first way we did this was
• 9:32
  I actually went on to Amazon and bought a book, like a little like 60 page pamphlet almost on basically the liturgy Jewish families use on the Sabbath. And we actually like would say Hebrew things over like the bread and the wine and the kids and the table and everything.
• 9:53
  the whole Sabbath and the candle. And we practiced that for, I don't know, I was probably several years. I actually just, I forgot about that until just now. I'm like, we had, we sort of started by just saying, let's, oftentimes they say first imitate, then innovate. So we were like, let's go ahead and imitate, you know, Jewish families that have been practicing this forever.
• 10:12
  And then we will start to innovate over time. And so oftentimes when Shabbat would start, I would just pull this book out. And one of the things we had was, Kelsey, you mentioned this, and I'm curious how you think about this. One of the ways that we had to build some meaning was we had this box. And in the box would be the candle, the book of all these liturgies. But yeah, how do you remember that box? And what did that mean? Yeah, yeah.
• 10:39
  Well, I do. Now that you're saying that, I remember it being like the meal being a lot more liturgical than it is now. Like now I feel like we just do the blessings for the sons and daughters where we used to do the blessing over the wine and the bread and we'd have the bread covered and things like that. So we don't do that so much anymore. So I feel like that's kind of a testament to how things can just change over time. Yeah.
• 11:01
  And it's totally fine. And like, it's still special. It just kind of adapts to whatever you have going on. But the box was like this chest and like throughout the week, we keep the tablecloth in it. And then we take it out to set the table. And then, um,
• 11:16
  Whoever was in charge of sitting at the table would like put the chest next to dad's seat. And then mom was reminding me that you used to also have a chain in there, like a big chain. I forgot about that. And the beginning of the meal was always, what does this box represent? Does anyone know? And then, oh, gosh, I know. Yeah.
• 11:37
  Even if no one else was there and it was just the six or seven of us every week, it would be like, oh, I know, I know. Walked away in slavery. Like slavery to what? Sin. And then somehow you'd incorporate the chain being like slavery and you'd open the chest and take out the candle. And then there was I feel like the like the.
• 12:00
  short, like two to five minute teaching after that would kind of change every week. But that was always like how it started was about being locked away in slavery. And then, um, and then you would bless the wine and bread and mom, oh, mom still blesses the candle. But again, it used to be like the same blessing every week and now she changes it. So it's more like a prayer.
• 12:24
  Whereas before it was like the Hebrew blessing. So I feel like that's changed too. The iteration there was, um, well we did, we use index cards. I remember writing, we had a lot of the blessings written down on index cards and, um,
• 12:41
  One, like for my, for my upbringing, um, there was a lot of like, uh, memorize this thing, say this thing. And then I, when I, I would lose meaning for me. And so I realized that was happening after we had done this for a couple of years, maybe with the blessings that it was losing it's like power or something. And so I wanted to start like saying my own prayer and making my own
• 13:11
  that Jesus is a light of the world. And then I say thanks to him for something that, you know, is pertinent to what we just talked about or something that he's put on my heart that week.
• 13:24
  Yeah. So yeah, that, so I think that, that, that kind of process of starting with the template, something that's simple, keep it centralized. Like one of the things I loved about having that box was like all the meaningful sort of tangible symbols were pretty much fit. We put the tablecloth, the candle, everything we could besides the dishes, you know, fit in that little box so that Shabbat was basically portable. And there were times where we would literally would take this box with us on a vacation and,
• 13:50
  Because we knew that we just threw it in the car and everything we needed to sort of kick off this meaningful, very different meal were always contained in that box. And part of where the inspiration for the conversation around slavery came from is in Deuteronomy 5, when...
• 14:06
  When Moses is describing the fourth commandment to keep the Sabbath, the Lord says in that version, because there's a different version of Exodus, but in the Deuteronomy version, he says, remember that you were slaves. So I was like, when I actually read the booklet, there was no...
• 14:23
  There was no mention of that. And I was very affected by the fact that when Jesus, and I think it was John 10, is debating with the Jews, they say, we've never been slaves to anyone. And I was like, whoa, they forgot. They are intentionally forgetting. And so this is, Jesus is trying to rescue them with the gospel. And the response is, we don't need rescuing because we're children of Abraham. We've never been slaves in our whole history. And so what I wanted to,
• 14:51
  to experience was the gospel. How do we have sort of a gospel experience? So how do you, how does your family want to like sort of ratchet up the meaning? And how do you also want to sort of put that a little bit on autopilot so that in a really stressful week, that meaning that those symbols are there, they remind you of things, they help you, you know, sort of create that without it feeling like it's this thing you have to redesign all the time.
• 15:16
  And then I would say, so we started with just sustainability. We started to create more meaning. I think maybe the next iteration was we started to invite people in, you know? And then, so there was, I feel like we had to get to a place where we felt,
• 15:34
  Like this was really stable. I felt pretty intimidated early on, like doing the meaningful elements. It was, it felt kind of clunky or weird to be doing this in a home around a table, honestly, because I was so used to spiritual rhythms being in the church. And so I had to kind of get that out of my system.
• 15:51
  a bit so that when we started inviting people, I wouldn't chicken out almost and just like have a dinner and not do something special. And so once it became, once our family's culture felt really solid, I feel like we started to invite people over more and more. And it actually then started enhancing a lot of these things. So how do you guys remember anything else into that transition? And how do you guys remember that? Well, I remember...
• 16:17
  Sorry, go ahead. I was going to say one more thing about the slavery part. Yeah. I was just going to say that I feel like the as a kid, it was just like what what you said, like, oh, locked with slavery. We used to be slaves to sin. That was like how we would talk about it. And then as I got older, I feel like the connection between like being slaves to sin and the Israelites being slaves in Egypt kind of grew.
• 16:43
  Especially probably in more recent years, as I've gotten more into like theology and things like that, it's like connected a lot more dots automatically or almost in a way I didn't know. Some people didn't know X, Y and Z because it just feels a little bit more natural to like, oh, like, yes, slave needs to be trained how to not be a slave.
• 17:05
  Like you need to learn how to rest. That's what the law is for. And the law of Shabbat is to teach the Israelites how to rest when they're used to working 24-7 as slaves. And so it gave me a lot of understanding for like the like Shabbat in the Torah.
• 17:24
  Um, and then Shabbat after Jesus, even just that connection by itself. So I just want to say that about the slavery thing, but, um, mom, you can go ahead. That's cool. Yeah. I feel like, uh, this was an era when Jeremy was really kind of like feeling around for him around him spiritually, like looking for curriculum or things like that to teach, to pass things onto our kids. And it was a
• 17:51
  He just kept coming up empty handed, you know, and then he, he realized like in the Torah, wow, there's, there's this whole year of curriculum with all these holidays, there's seven holidays in the Torah that, um,
• 18:07
  God used to like teach his people different things about himself and about his love for them. And, and then there's, there's this thing called Shabbat that they did every single week. And he set it up so that if they did it, then, you know, they would remember this and you'd remember that and, and experience his goodness in this way and that way. And so I just remember that excitement of, um, Jeremy, it like sparked in him a desire to want to explore that. It really had to, in my
• 18:37
  like coincided with a time of him stepping up to the plate as a father. Um, the kids were getting a little bit older now and he was able to engage with them more and this, um, like format or the setting gave him the, the, um, method or something to be able to engage in his kids and the spiritual conversation.
• 19:05
  And, um, so that's what I remember about the early days. And so it was like kind of watching him emerge as a father, as a dad, um, pouring into his kids. And it was awkward for him. He was used to working in front of people being around, you know, leading a youth group and things like that. So he could do that, but to do it at the table felt very awkward for him. And I remember him really kind of struggling with that sometimes and, um,
• 19:29
  So it was him really stepping up to the plate. And, and then once we had, like you said, once we had that down, we, it was like a new idea to have to invite people like, oh, we could have, we can invite people into this meal and what would that be like? And so kind of went from there. Yeah. It's like discipleship, evangelism, and deep family identity could all happen at the same time around the same table.
• 19:56
  And it's the kids really held him accountable. I mean, they weren't trying to hold him accountable, but they're just like, dad, is it a grape juice night? Is this the night where we're going to get the chain out? And even so, even if we were struggling with energy, he would be like, yep, this is the night we're doing that.
• 20:13
  And so then they would, you know, him have us having people over, they would start to ask those questions and like, this is the part where dad says this, and this is the part. And so it kind of like made him go ahead and step up to the plate, even if he was maybe like thinking about backing out, the kids weren't going to let him do that. So. Yeah.
• 20:31
  Yeah, I think that's so helpful. And it is kind of strange, I feel. And as a dad, anytime we try to take on a tradition that's not your tradition, your generation is going to take the hit. Your kids are going to feel like it's native. Like, oh, of course, we always do Shabbat. We always do Sukkot. We always, you know. But for you as the parent trying to sort of reestablish any tradition that wasn't one that you have all this nostalgia, memory, you know, and even...
• 20:59
  you know, sort of muscle memory around, it's going to be a challenge and you're going to have to be kind of disciplined about it. I was going to say that about even thinking about my kids, because I've grown up in a place that
• 21:11
  Most of the people that we know do Shabbat. And I knew that like, you know, not everyone does it. So like to pay attention to like, okay, these people do it and these people don't. But I was just even hanging out with some of the kids recently. I did a kid sewing class with some of the kids from those families. And then I also was helping with.
• 21:30
  the youth group that we do just for, I was just, I was only there every week for like two months or something. But all these kids, it was like, like the, like the icebreaker question would be like, what's your favorite thing to do on Shabbat? Or like, like things like that, where they would just always be like, oh, did you go to the midrash, the dad's midrash this morning? Yeah, I was there. And like these little kids talking about like,
• 21:53
  the fatherhood Bible study they go to with their dad and the, you know, and their Shabbat, whatever. And I think I'm having that like realization where I kind of, I'm like,
• 22:05
  in it where so many of the families that we know and do community with do Shabbat, but I also am aware it's not normal. And then I'm looking at younger kids and I'm like, do they know that this isn't normal? Like, that's so cool. Like they, it's so ingrained in them and like all the friends that they're talking to do it as well, or a lot of them, it seems like. And so I'm like, that's what my kids are going to be like. They're going to just be like everyone around them is going to
• 22:35
  yeah we get to be weird together you know you know somebody's got to start being weird all alone need a blueprint to revise your family to be a multi-generational team on mission the book Family Revision by Jeremy Pryor is the book that summarizes all the big picture ideas you hear on this podcast available on Amazon or familyteams.com and a lot of you families listening to this you'll be like well you know
• 23:05
  That's going to be tough because that's sort of a double hit. You're going to start something so that your kids, it's native to your kids, even though it's sort of foreign to you. And you might be starting this for your community. And it might take many years, certainly did in our case, before people in our communities start to feel like, oh, well, we'd like to try this. Or it seems to really bless the prior family. Maybe we could give this a go as well. And man, that was so helpful to us. I think because it made it really then reinforced for our kids, this is something that
• 23:35
  And by the way, this all started for me in terms of trying to create traditions with me actually trying to invent traditions. And I realized that exactly what Kelsey is describing would probably never happen if I invented the traditions. If I just made up days that...
• 23:52
  And I felt like that's just, that's a huge amount of power, like crafting a rhythm. And I remember we had friends in our community that were very serious about Lent. They take 40 days and they would just repent for 40 days and they would fast for 40 days. And they constantly were talking about Lent for 40 days. Every single time we got together during that 40 days, it was like, it was a huge part of their life. And on one hand, I really appreciated it. I was like, wow, this is a really powerful rhythm. You know, maybe we should do this. But then I was reading the Torah. I'm like, why did God...
• 24:20
  create Lent. He did create a day for fasting, but it was only one day. And then there was seven days for feasting. And so then I started to feel like maybe God preserved in the Torah some divine revelation that basically helped me as a father know, here are the themes that you should think about every year.
• 24:37
  And in this case, what we're talking about is maybe we need to rehearse the gospel every week. Maybe we forget the gospel so easily that to rest once a week, to really say once a week that all of my trust is not in me and what I'm accomplishing, but my entire life is really resting on what Jesus has already done. When he said it is finished, he was fulfilling the rest.
• 24:59
  the work that I had to do. And I think once a week is sort of a almost perfect rhythm or experiencing in an immersive way, the truth of the gospel, because the gospel is that important because it's not just how you get saved, but it's how it's what saves you as you go deeper and deeper into it.
• 25:19
  So, so we're, we're, we're like talking about the meaning, you know, we're, and this is, this is an ongoing, you know, we could give you many more iterations of, of like ways in which we've tried to infuse meaning into, into the Sabbath. But, um, but then I think at this point where there was enough meaning, enough sort of muscle memory in our family, we started to invite people over. So I'm curious, you know, uh, Kelsey, starting with you, how do you remember that, um, process of starting to see people come over and do you remember kind of the progression there?
• 25:47
  Um, yeah, I don't, I don't remember it being particularly awkward. Um, if it was, I wasn't very aware of it, um, for anyone. Cause some people we had eventually get in a group where they'd come over enough times for Shabbat that it became normal with them or whatever. And mom was saying that we would even have people spend the night. We had a spare room and we lived like
• 26:09
  out in the country. So if it was hard for people to get to us, sometimes they'd even spend the night after dinner and spend the day with us as well the next day. So, um, I have pretty fond memories of that. They're not very like awkward or strange or all there, when it comes to like having friends for Shabbat, it also wasn't very like, it doesn't feel like we did it all the time. Um, but I do remember times we had family over because well, mom's side of the family is really big. So it was always a big,
• 26:39
  We couldn't have it at the dining room table. We had like a furnished garage that we would like set up folding tables in and stuff to have everybody. And then there was usually some
• 26:51
  time afterward where at least the big kids, I don't remember if the little kids did, but at least the parents and the big kids would all go into the living room and my grandpa would tell stories. And I think you guys can correct me, but I think he was just asked to tell stories like, oh, can you tell a story at Shabbat? And he would get really into it. Instead of just telling a story, he would come with like pictures and documents and like written stuff that he had
• 27:20
  a handout for each grandchild of all the stuff that he was showing and stuff. And so he, he really enjoyed doing it like that. He could have just sat there and told a story. He like would prepare it and like, okay, well, you remember the story I told you last time. So after that or whatever, but that wasn't every week. That was every once in a while. I don't recall how often, but that, that one is a little bit more memorable just because, you know,
• 27:50
  Um, afterward we would spend a lot more like time talking, um, and listening to, I think it was mostly, mostly just grandpa that would tell the stories, but yeah, that's, that's my earliest memories of that. And then later on, I don't remember how later on they started coming every week.
• 28:10
  Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was kind of the iterations. April, what do you remember? How did that get kicked off and what are some of the, the sort of seasons or ways that we try to lean into the inviting? Yeah. When we started inviting people, it was, it was easier for us to invite people that were already kind of a part of our church community. I think some of it was a proximity issue. Both of our parents weren't quite living super close to us yet, but it was
• 28:40
  to kind of invite people who were kind of on the same page with us already about stuff. Um, and so we had a lot at that season, we had a lot of younger, like, like, um, young adults in our life. And so we would invite them out. They had, you know, a lot of freedom in their schedule and stuff. And so they would come and help us. Um, I don't remember if they helped us put the dinner on, but then, you know, they would,
• 29:03
  hang out and we would put the kids to bed and we would hear their stories. Cause our community was getting big enough at that time. We didn't get a chance to really sit and chat with a lot of people. So we wanted to get to know them. So we'd put the kids to bed and, you know, hang out and have fun with them and then put the kids to bed. And then.
• 29:20
  stay up till the wee hours of the morning and listen to their testimonies. And, um, we did it so much that we actually named our house after that, because we were just, we called our house story Hill because it was kind of on a Hill and it was a place where you come and tell your story and get listened to. And, um, so that was from that era. So that was a very special time. And then,
• 29:43
  My parents moved closer and we started, like Kelsey said, and started inviting them. And then Jeremy's parents moved from Seattle to the Northern Kentucky area. And so we started inviting them maybe a little bit more, less frequent. I don't really remember the order of when everything happened, but it was...
• 30:06
  you know, it was just here and there and every once in a while and, um, whenever it made sense and things like that, but we would use Friday night as a time to connect with them, um, as a
• 30:20
  Yeah, that's kind of. Yeah. Well, if you think about, I think it's, if you are really excited to invite other people to Shabbat, the way that I feel like it really worked for us was instead of saying, hey, would you guys come every week? Or, you know, it started just with one-off invitations and then we're like, oh, that was really life-giving. And then we would decide a rhythm that we felt like it was most sustainable. Again, going all the way back to Shabbat.
• 30:44
  sustainability first, like always think sustainability first. Um, I, cause I remember there was, there was another season. So we then moved from Story Hill to, uh, back to Fort Thomas. And, um, I remember that a friend of mine, Tim Schmoyer, Tim and Dana are like,
• 31:01
  really incredible Shabbat hosts. Like they host, I think 30, 40 people every other week at their house. And anyway, but there was like a six month period because Tim, when he was interviewing for a job at my business, he came to a Shabbat at our house. And then I remember we went into a season where we were just really tired and just doing our family
• 31:23
  And he's like, oh, his family moved. He spent six months asking me, can we come over for Shabbat? I want my wife to see this. And literally, we did not have the bandwidth for so long. Because I feel like we were then doubling down on the family Shabbat and trying to figure out how to do that sustainably and felt pretty maxed out before we started to invite more sort of outside the family. So I would say that we were just our kids and our family.
• 31:51
  Then it sort of broadened to our spiritual community. Then it started to involve our parents on a kind of, you know, on a kind of a maybe once a month basis. Then it started, then we started to collapse to just like our extended family and our family for a whole season. That was pretty intense while we got used to that. And, and that felt like a max. And then we started to think of ways, and I would say that's kind of where we're at today is that.
• 32:17
  we're kind of trying to figure out ways to open this up, but it does feel like our expanding family, because it's always a balance between, does this feel restful, right? Like if I feel like Shabbat is exhausting and then that's a problem. So we're always trying to think of what is it that makes it feel both meaningful and restful at the same time, like celebration and rest have to be in balance somehow while you pull this off. So maybe turning the corner to,
• 32:46
  What are some of the things that you both enjoy the most about, you know, like, is there a tradition you love that we do now that you remember, you know, when we started it? And yeah, maybe talk about any last sort of traditions or elements to our Shabbat that feel like have been a meaningful element that has been included.
• 33:10
  Well, I think that whoever's living in the house, which has for the past couple of years, not just been the seven of us, it's also been cousins or we had an exchange student and now grandparents. So having it, it's starting with grandparents are kind of, kind of became a default. Like, of course you're invited. They were, even if they couldn't come, they were always like invited. And then when we started having more people live with us, then, you know, they were
• 33:40
  And so that kind of became like the default instead of defaulting to just us, it was defaulting to that. And I think that was really good for a lot of reasons. I think my great grandma, when she moved here from Michigan, she only lived here for a couple of months before she died. But, you know, she came to a couple. And so that was really cool that we had something to invite her into and that Grammy and Papa felt like they could invite her into. And yeah.
• 34:10
  And then I think it was really cool, but also really hard around when grandpa died because it was like we couldn't do Shabbat at all because the empty seat was so like obvious. It was just too hard to do that. And so I think it was I think that's kind of cool that your grandparents are so like present that their presence is felt a lot more when they are not there.
• 34:39
  But it was also obviously hard, too. But it became part of our grieving process, too, where at Shabbat is every every Shabbat for a year after he died, we would share a story about him or get like how there was like a place to talk about him.
• 34:58
  And then after that, it's every year on his birthday. We'll do that now. So it kind of provides a place for our birthdays. We do that too. Like, who do you want to invite to your birthday Shabbat? I feel like that's usually when we invite people outside of our family is on a birthday Shabbat or something. You can invite friends or whoever. Um, and it's also grandpa's the only grandparent that has passed away. So we only have that experience, but I, I assume that that will be like that. Um.
• 35:28
  whenever, hopefully not for a long time, that happens again. And so I feel like there's a lot of like, that has a lot of meaning even when it's hard. But I also know that sometimes it was hard to feel like sometimes hosting every single week when there were all of a sudden these extra default people who were like, of course, invited. And so mom, I don't know if you wanna talk about this, but that's when we started going away
• 35:54
  for a weekend every month for like some period of time so that we could have a Shabbat that it was just the seven of us. So yeah, talk to me about what we, what was it? What are some of the things that you remember that are, we started implementing? Yes. Um, so that was, that was what I was going to talk about, Kelsey. Um, I remember just that feeling of like, a lot of times Jeremy will rely
• 36:24
  being able to like sense when, what, like which relationships need work amongst the kids or what our family needs, like relationally. And so I was saying to him, like, it's fine that these people are living with us and it's great that they're, we definitely want that for their part of our household, they should be at our Shabbat meal every week. That's just like the bare minimum. Yeah.
• 36:48
  But I can see it having taking its toll on our kids where we don't have any time or like very little time where it's just the seven of us, like a protected time. And so we would we prioritize that we protect prioritized. Yeah.
• 37:04
  our in our budget in our time where we would like come plan our shabbats a month at a time and pick which of those weeks it was going to work for us to just do a small getaway not like a big travel trip but just like pack a deck of cards pack the nerds and some popcorn and we're going to go get an airbnb for a night or two nights and um
• 37:27
  My favorites were when they were in the middle of the cornfield, but it wasn't always. And, and the kids would just, we would just have time to relax and they could, they were kind of on the older end of playing, but some version of play and stay up late listening to music and playing cards and eating popcorn. Like that's kind of how we would reconnect and regroup and then have some kind of shared experience the next day at a, you know, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um,
• 37:55
  the park nearby or just go sightsee whatever was around that town, things like that. Um, and that was a really, so our kids were, you know, into the teen years by then. And, um, it was really important for this relationships and just for us to continue to maintain our family identity, um, as a whole, as a unit, um, during that time.
• 38:21
  Yeah. Yeah. That was really special. That was the Shabbat immediate for just for our immediate family. We would just, you know, declare that, put that on the calendar, you know, and that was so helpful for me to hear from you, April, just like, okay, this is our family needs this. Here's a nutrient that's really
• 38:36
  As we're getting more and more missional as a family, not just beyond, but even just our immediate family, just trying to unfold more and more people, it just creates a household that is filled with people that can...
• 38:51
  be amazing in some sense. And then it can, it can sort of, you can start to neglect a certain experience. So I would say that like, if they're like the three, the three seasons, it seems like sustainability came first, then meaning it seems like what you guys are describing now. And I would say, this is the word that really strikes me as this last five years is identity. Like, like we really went deep into Shabbat being a tool of deepening identity. Like Kelsey is describing what would happen with,
• 39:18
  you know, Grandpa Don, when he died, even like my mom, you know, and she has, she's very sensitive to when her parents' birthdays are, you know, and they would be in there, you know, a hundred and
• 39:30
  Maybe they'd be 107 today. And so she would say something to me or text me and I'd be like, oh, wow, bring, let's, let's talk about that at Shabbat. So Shabbat was the place where the family identity got cultivated and the family stories and the memories. And those aren't just one-offs. Those are rhythmic. And I love the idea of the rhythmic birthdays. Cause if you think about, so in our, in our Shabbat right now, we have probably, you
• 39:54
  you know, 12, 15 people that come pretty regularly. And then in our extended family that come for their birthday, that's maybe a group of like 20, you know, people at least. And then beyond that, you could have, you know, people, deceased family members, and that's another, you know, five, you know, seven that we're regularly remembering. And that means that about half the Shabbats a year, we're actually talking about a particular person and their, the impact they've had on our family. Yeah.
• 40:22
  whether that person is with us or no longer with us. And this creates an opportunity for that just to be rhythmic, natural, fun, you know, and sometimes grieving if it's been recent, if it's a recent loss. So I think that, yeah, that's finding ways to use this family meal to deepen identity. I'm constantly trying to figure out, what are things that would create that for our family? Yeah, I want to say,
• 40:50
  I want to say one more thing about the way that it, the way the evening is a different, like another set apart thing, different than when you would just have a regular, like a Tuesday night dinner, or like you're just eating dinner. What we try to do with our Shabbats is like linger, linger at the table, and then do something afterwards.
• 41:10
  There's all kinds of things we've done afterwards. There was a season where we would play games afterwards. There was a season where we did Bible study afterwards. We usually do something and then come back for dessert. So like when it's nice out, we'll go outside and play a game, that kind of thing. So it's a night where you don't just like eat dinner really quick and then leave and go hang out with your friends. It's like, nope, you're here for the night.
• 41:34
  Um, and then even after like the kids will, even after we've done dinner and then done the fun activity and then had dessert, like the grandparents leave and the kids will want to watch a movie or something like that. So it's just a night that kind of just goes on. Yeah. That's so good. Yeah. I love that, that it's, it's sort of, that's sort of the timeless experience you want to create as you start to like drift into the evening where nobody has anywhere and we're anywhere better to go. And we are just enjoying each other and enjoying being a family. Yeah.
• 42:04
  Yeah. And I was going to say too about the Shabbat getaways. They, even though we only did them regularly for like a short season, they became nostalgic enough that right before my wedding, we wanted to do one last one. And so I feel like that feeling of,
• 42:25
  It creates like a like a childhood nostalgia around some of those things that we got to we didn't recreate it. We just like we're like, this isn't going to happen again like this because the family is going to be different. And so let's just do this one last time. And that was really fun. And I feel like important that we did that.
• 42:46
  And then now Matthew and I come to Shabbat every week. And so, and he loves it. And one of the things that everyone always asked me was like, well, what about when you get married? Your husband, like almost assuming your husband's not going to do Shabbat or you're going to have to teach him how or something. And when Matthew and I met, like in the first conversation, I found out, oh, you do Shabbat. Like he's a single dude living with parents who don't do Shabbat and he does it himself.
• 43:13
  Because he has like a church community that does it. But like in his mind, it's like, okay, I don't work then. And like, sometimes I'll go over to other people's house for dinner. But for him, it was mostly the day of rest, not the meal. Because he was just a single guy. And so now he like loves coming to Shabbat and will stay for a long time afterwards and stuff like that. So I think that's.
• 43:38
  been really cool too. And who knows how that's going to look. We've only been married for six months, but, um, yeah, I think that that transition both like acknowledging, okay, things aren't going to be the same as they were, but also being really excited about where they're going. Like that all has a place like around the Shabbat rhythm.
• 43:57
  Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for joining me in this trip down memory lane. I hope it was helpful for those of you guys listening. You know, this kind of movement that I think, you know, we went through, which I think is really kind of be common for a lot of people, which is make it sustainable, you know, make it simple enough so that it's, it's, you know, something you look forward to, your kids look forward to.
• 44:18
  Then you can start to increase the meaning, you know, and find ways to do that. And we're going to constantly be sharing on all of our channels and stuff, different ways of making that meaning happen and try to just create ideas, make it your own family culture. And that's really the third is just then make it like deep in identity. Like, what is it?
• 44:36
  like you'll discover you move from imitation into that innovation phase and let yourself innovate, be creative, you know, come up with things, steal from other families, things that feel like they're authentically also something that your family would enjoy. So, yeah, we I love this as just a canvas for for creating an amazing product.
• 44:57
  family experience. And so we wish you all the best as you guys pursue this. And we're on this journey with you. And hopefully 10 or 20 years from now, we'll give you bigger updates on what it looks like with our growing extended family. So thanks for joining me today and I'll see y'all later.
• 45:17
  Absolutely. Thank you for listening to the family teams podcast. If you're enjoying this content or have learned something new, please make sure to leave a rating and review and share with a friend to stay up to date with our events, new content and products. You can follow us on Facebook and Instagram at family teams.