Latest / The Property Unleashed Podcast / Trust Your Gut, Property Success Through Self-Belief WITH Nic & Matt Reeves

Transcript

Trust Your Gut, Property Success Through Self-Belief WITH Nic & Matt Reeves · The Property Unleashed Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Property Unleashed podcast with me, your host, mark Fitzgerald, but I'm joined today by Nicola and Matthew Reeves, who are property investors in their own right.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Great to have you on today.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: How are you both?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Very well, mark.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having us on.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, good, mark, good yeah, thank you.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: It's good.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: It's good.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: So I've been following their journey for the last few years and, of course, they've been investing before that.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: But the reason I wanted to have you both on is because, a you're both really nice people and I get I'm really really well with you and I always like to surround myself with like-minded people and, b you've got interesting stories.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: You know, at the end of the day, we all start somewhere.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: We're all trying to grow and build our property, invest in businesses and things, and I think the fact that I see a lot of growth from people, I see people changing, I see them coming out of their shell, I see them taking more action, I see them smiling and laughing even when things are down, and I have to say I've seen that from both of you and I think a lot of the people watching this or listening to this can get a lot of value from your expertise and from the things that you both have done.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: So if you want to take it one at a time, tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Just introduce yourselves, please.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'm Nick, we're based in Bristol, we also invest in Bristol.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm Nick, we're based in Bristol, we also invest in Bristol.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Long story short, we actually we met in the Cayman Islands when we were both working and living over there, came back to the UK blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: All the rest of it had jobs worked in the whole.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I used to actually work for Bristol City Council in the planning and building regs department.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Then I went to work for an architect and we suddenly thought to ourselves one day why are we doing this for other people?
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Why are we not using all this knowledge we've got and all this you know and contacts to actually do something for ourselves?
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Matt's always been interested in property.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I took me a bit longer to get there, but, yeah, and that's why we decided to start.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: So we invested in our training.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: We wanted to do it properly, we wanted to do right by people and we wanted to do it ethically and properly and not be one of these people who watch a YouTube video for 10 minutes and then decide we know everything.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: So we spent a lot of time and money on our training, on our education.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're here today.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, exactly as Nicola said, I've had an interest in property for as long as I can remember.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: My background recently is in architectural draftsmanship, so I design loft conversions, I design single-storey extensions, double-storey extensions, new builds.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: I've done a fair bit of designs for other investors where they're converting just a regular three bed house into a six bed HMO.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: So I started, as I say, doing draftsmanship only and then got a little bit into the project management, but always for other people.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: And I think, as Nick said, we both realized that we've got skills and a bit of history and a bit of knowledge about how to do property, but we were always doing it for other people and we just made a decision it's time to go out and start doing this for ourselves.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: With our backgrounds and our knowledge, we were in the perfect place to do so.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, so that's what that's.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: What we've started doing is, instead of project managing refurbs and builds for other people, we're trying to do them for ourselves a little bit more now.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: It's amazing.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what it's all about.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I think surrounding yourself with like-minded people is always important.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I think, getting the right education.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: We don't have to go out there and try and learn everything afresh, do we?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: We can follow sort of blueprints and roadmaps from others, and I do think, with property investing, depending on what you're doing as well and I know we'll go into your strategies and what you're currently up to at the moment in a bit more detail shortly but you know it's not always a case of one size fits all in property, is it?
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Because you can look at a couple of houses that are on the same street, look very similar, but when you actually go, maybe to take them back to brick, you can have a lot of different issues and problems, can't you?
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: So, putting yourself in the right places to be able to ask questions from people that have done.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: You know what you're trying to achieve before you get there is always, always worthwhile.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: So what is it that you're trying to do at the moment now?
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: well, we ideally we're focusing on assisted sales and lease options.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: However, that said, we're at the moment doing a flip.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: We're planning gain, so so obviously you're looking at one thing, yeah when you said about, uh, trying to stay focused.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but obviously our background.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I have, for the last 15 years, been dealing with planning applications, building regs, applications.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I love nothing more than digging into planning and looking at the policies and all of that.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: You know I'm not planning trained, but I have the experience and I've done it for a long time now.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: And when we came across the project that we're currently working on, it was right we we could just see the potential.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: We knew that we could get a new build.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: We did.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I did a history search.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I knew that other people had had similar granted and that's why we decided on this project.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And we're flipping the existing house and we've got planning permission in place for a new build to the side and we've already had a sale agreed with a builder who already wants to For the plot, yeah.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it excites meites me, excites me.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: The planning game, the flip excites me some days and not others.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: We weren't down there this morning not quite so excited this morning because there's no back of the house on there at the moment right but we're also we're doing a big info extension on the existing house, which is part of the new build application, so that it's the aesthetics now on the back.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Look right.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: It's very exciting, very exciting.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: So I love it, I love it, so yeah just to try and answer your question a bit more succinctly.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: I think up until now all we've done is either flips or assisted sales so we've never bought anything that we've decided to hold on and keep and it's absolutely brilliant and it does bring in decent chunks of money.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: But it's irregular and obviously once you've done it, once you crystallize your profit and you have to go again.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: So up until now it's been flips and assisted sales.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: But going forward, I think we have come to the conclusion that we need passive income, so there will be more of a focus on trying to buy and hold things, yeah, but yeah, the flips and the assisted sales have been brilliant, haven't they?
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: yeah yeah, and in my ideal world, I would love, I'd love just single by to let.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I'd love to put families in there.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I'd love to give them safe, beautiful homes that they'd be proud of.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And that's my dream.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Eventually doesn't work too well in Bristol at the moment the problem is, if the numbers don't stack, however romantic a notion you've got about what you want to achieve for people, it has to make financial sense, and single let buy-to-lets in Bristol are not easy to stack.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: I guess that's why so many people look to invest up north.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah or do HMOs, or across the bridge in Wales, yeah, or in Bristol do HMOs?
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: And essays.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: But yeah, we'll get there, won't we?
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: We know?
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: what we want to do.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: We know we will, we'll get there, but it's baby steps.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: We're much further on than we were, even 12 months ago.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: 12 months ago, yeah, and it's a massive learning curve.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Massive doing the flips curve, massive doing the flips, doing the, you know, getting through planning.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: That the value of having a planning agent was unbelievable.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it's not.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: It's not a cheap thing to do, but oh, it was worth his weight in gold.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: So and don't get me wrong, I'm more than capable of putting a planning application in.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I've done it so many times on hundreds of them.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: But I knew, for something like this, to pay it's the cost versus value to pay for somebody who could react instantly, who could fight back to the planning officer on stupid conditions you wanted to put in place, whereas you know and that comes with experience but yeah, it's, it's been, it's been great, it's been exciting, it's been scary, but that's all part of the fun, isn't it?
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: yeah, the power team's been um essential, isn't it?
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: And fantastic.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: To be fair, we've been very lucky in that.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: We've found some brilliant people to work with.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right away from, as nicola says, the planning consultant, we engage right the way down to just the builder and even some of his general laborers really, really nice guys.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: They're helpful, they're clean, they're polite, they're everything that you'd want.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: So in some respects, we've been very lucky in that, but I don't know, maybe you create your own.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Look a little bit we've also established the relationships with these people over a you know, quite a long period of time.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: The chap who we use as our planning agent, I actually knew him.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: He was a planning officer at the council when I was there and I've always recommended him to everyone he's he's a really top guy, he's really helpful.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: But because of that, because we've already got that established relationship, he's probably helped us a lot more than he might.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: He's gone a little bit over and above than what he might have normally did.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: If I need a little bit of advice, I appreciate that he needs to normally charge for it.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's been and it's.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: It's not what you know sometimes, is it?
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: It's who you know, who you can pick the phone up to.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: It's all about your network.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Who you can drop an email to and go.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Don't suppose you could help me out with this?
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and it's been invaluable, isn't it?
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: It really has.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I think if you're right with people, they'll be right with you, and it's always worth paying for a proper, you know consultants.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: No matter what you're doing, like you say it's, it's all about getting making sure that you, you know you pay a good price.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: You should get a good product, you should get the help and support that you need yeah and I like that.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: And the fact is that you're chatting to people, you're building relationships, potentially even before you need them, or you're dipping into your connections as well, and I think a lot of people think I'll sort that out when I get there, and I always say no, no, you need to start laying the groundwork for all of those sorts of different people, because you never know who you're going to need and I know it's the old saying your network, it's your net worth, but it really is who you can reach out to.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: And I know a lot of people.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: When they're doing flips, they're like well, I'm not sure what builders to use, and I always say look for people who've either got recommendations or that you've known a long time and you know for a fact that they do a good job, and sometimes you have to wait.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: So if you are looking at a project and you want that certain builder or you want that certain architect who's busy at the moment, what's the sort of timeframes?
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: But you want to get those conversations as soon as possible, don't you?
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So that you know you're not stuck there thinking, oh my God, I've got to wait three months now before the build is ready and it's a waste of time.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: So start trying to lay the seed, start trying to talk to people and things like that before you actually need them, but like with your builders and things.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: So how have you managed to find, with your builders and things?
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: So how have you managed to find, so to speak, your power team?
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Has it just been networking?
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Has it just been through referrals?
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: Almost everything has been networking.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: There's a little bit of referrals, to be fair.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: The builder that we're using on the current project is somebody that we've known for a few years and he's done a few small jobs for us For us personally, yeah, and we've always been really impressed with the standard of his work and, more importantly, how reliable he is.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Or, as importantly, yeah, and we just asked him to come and look at this property before we'd even bought it.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: He gave us some really good advice pre-purchase, and it was just a natural step that, once we actually own the property, to go to him and say, right, we've got it.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Now we want to make a start.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Are you interested in doing it for us?
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: but, to be fair to him, he came out.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: He's been out and looked at projects with us.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: He hasn't charged us.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: He hasn't because he knew he could see the value of building that relationship as well.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: And actually since we've, as I said, we were happy using him on our own house then when we've introduced him to this project and he was really keen to be involved, but it's even blossomed from there because he's since keen to work with us on other projects, because he's actually got a plot of land himself which we didn't know about, which he's taken us to have a look at with his wife and then we all went for a drink and he's really keen to for us to grow and actually, so you never know, you never know who you're talking to.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: And when he realized we were actually serious about property investing and that, and he's given us some valuable advice, isn't he?
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: he's been, he's been absolutely brilliant, he's been absolutely brilliant and he's.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: It's always nice if you get on with the people you work with.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: It makes it makes life so much easier.
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: And, um, this, what was purely a professional relationship within being paid by us to provide a service has become, as nicholas said, something where he's looking long term, asking us to get involved with a project that he's got on himself because he knows our draftsmanship and planning background.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: He's invited me to play golf and it's just nice when people that you start out professionally with actually become your friends.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: I think there's a line that you have to maintain between business and pleasure, mm-hmm, but it doesn't have to be pure business.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: There can be a big element of getting on with the people that you're working with and it makes life so much easier if you're on first name terms and you're having a laugh together and everything's just, you know, just warm and moving along nicely, yeah, and I'm a believer as well in trusting my instincts for stuff and trusting my gut feeling, and we just knew he was the right guy to work with us.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: You know, and he's got to feel the same as well, do you know?
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't matter if you just if you're paying the bill, if you're not getting on, you, you're causing issues and or immediately through the build.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: But we just really clicked, didn't we?
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: And he can see our vision.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: He knows what we're trying to do.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: He knows we're trying to stick to a sensible budget as much as we possibly can.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: You know and he could be quite easily be one of these builders go, oh, you need to do this, you need to do that and cost us thousands and thousands, but he's, yeah.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Ultimately, everything comes down to people, don't they?
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: It's a property business, but it's a people, or it's a property industry.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: It's a people business and it's all about rapport and it's all about, you know, just trusting each other, liking each other, and it makes working together so much easier when you've got that that kind of understanding up front.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, definitely, and I think he obviously sees the value that you guys can give to what he's trying to do.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: He's obviously got his skill set.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: You guys have got your skill set.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So, as we always say, it's a win-win by putting that together.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: So it's great to see there.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: And the other thing is you do need to get on with people.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: If you're going to work with people, you need to be able to be up front with them, to have the hard conversations but to not fall out over it, because that is the business conversation.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: We're going to go and have a game of golf now, so I might have a go at you over that as well if you beat me, but it is.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: It's having ever news, and I always say at the end of the day, one of the things that was always said to me by a very good friend of mine is if you can lay down the foundations and almost just have an agreement between you, between you all.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: That you know this is worst case scenario.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: If we do this project, if one of us, if you want to keep something and one of us wants to buy the other one out, these are the scenarios there, so you almost go through everything, a worst case scenario that can happen.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Just to get it out of the way, because it can be very, very easy, when you're all slapping each other's backs and getting on really, really well, to think that this will never end.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: But predominantly things everything sort of will come to an end at some point.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: God forbid if anything ever happened to somebody as well.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: What would happen then and all?
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: of those sorts of things and the the best quote that was said to me was what you want to do is you know, you do your contract and everything like that as enemies, so that you can leave as friends yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, putting that all out there so that at the end of the day, when, if you do part ways or you do a project together and it's down to those, it's normally down to decisions Somebody wants to go one direction, the other one wants to go the other direction.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Right now I've done it myself Everything's pushing in the same direction and then all of a sudden, people just start to you know, things are all right, we've got a bit of cash flow coming through.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Now Maybe you guys want to travel the world.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: He wants to keep building projects, so I can't do it without you.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, so to speak.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: So it's just looking at those things.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: But the fact that I love it, the relationships, it's all about talking to people.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Get to know people.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: We see it time and time again.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: I bet you guys see it as well.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: People will meet somebody, they'll relate to them, they'll get on with them, because there's a vibe there and the next minute let's do a joint venture.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Let's do a joint venture and I just think, no, no, no, no, no.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Get to know people, see what they're willing to give to you and you can give back.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: It's like the builder coming around looking at all those projects and things going above and beyond absolutely brilliant that you know what I mean.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Trying to help you guys out and thinks to himself I could do with a bit of a hand on here.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I know who are cool Because he's helped you.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: You guys aren't going to say no anyway, are you?
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: No, no, of course not You're going to go and offer it back, and that's the way it should be, I think that's absolutely brilliant.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I think you know, having your head screwed on like it into a match, match in heaven, which is, which is amazing.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you also need to to.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you need to get on, you need to get that relationship going because we we've had, not that long ago, we had somebody approach us who wanted to invest with us, wanted to work with us joint venture, and we just knew it wasn't the right fit.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: We could have have quite easily gone, yeah, yeah, yeah, because we knew he was a substantial investor, we knew he had the money.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: You know, he even showed us proof of funds, whatever.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: He'd been involved in property before, he was keen to work with us on the project.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: But because it didn't resonate, it just didn't feel right and I said I said, while we don't align, it's not the right thing to do.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: And we and we said to him thanks, but no, thank, you know, as politely as possible.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: But and I think this is what some people make the mistake with they jump in with both feet, they see the pound, pound signs and don't think about the bigger picture.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: And I think you need I think that's so important and and getting that relationship and getting that and if you, because if you can't.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if he's got half a million pound to spend.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: If you're not getting on with him, you know you're never going to agree or you're going to disagree on every single decision.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: It's not a relationship, is it?
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: it's not I think with that, with that guy, we just felt as if we'd we'd cross swords at every every, every, over everything, yeah and much as much as Nicola says.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: The money was there.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: It was on the table if we wanted it.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Well, there's plenty of other people with money Mark that you can work with.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: You don't have to take the first person that comes along.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: I think you know you said just now about getting to know people before you jump into bed with them.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Well, in industry and property, that's as important as it is in life.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: I think yeah yeah, definitely.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: and you know, nick, I couldn't agree enough.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Your gut, your second brain, as they say, that that tells you everything.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: If I don't go with my gut, then chances are I regret it.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I I've never not, I don't think ever regretted it, and there's certain things I can look back now to pivotal points where inside something was telling me don't do this, mark, don't do this, it's a mistake.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: It's a mistake, and I didn't listen to it and I regretted it afterwards.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: So I'm a massive one.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: If the vibe's not there, if there's something off, if my gut's telling me something, forget what the brain's, because sometimes the brain's just thinking that.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: It's thinking, oh money, let's go, but the gut's telling, oh money, let's go.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: But you're telling you, no, it's not going to work, and I'm a massive believer it's like that sixth sense that says, no, don't get trapped in this.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: You just know, you just you just feel and you think I need to go with how I feel it.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: It just won't be right if I know it's going to go wrong.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: So yeah, massive believer in that aren't I?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, very good.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: It's so, so powerful, so powerful.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: And I love it when people talk about it as well, because there will be people watching this and listening to this that are maybe just starting out would have said, well, no, I just took the investor's money and that's great.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: But you've got to appreciate that you know, an easy life now could be a very, very hard life later on, whereas if it's a little bit harder, take it a bit more time to find investors, to find the right builders and things You'll have an easier life later on when things are happening.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: And I think we're all too interested a lot of the time for instant gratification Got to have it now.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Got to have it now.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: This person wants to work with me, or this person wants to be my builder or whatever that we don't take the time to actually check.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: And, like you said, matt, it's relationships.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Property is a people's business.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: It is all about relationships and it's all about working with the right people.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: And I've always said this myself as well, particularly when I started out doing rent-to-rent deals.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: The thing was for me, it was the landlord was more important than the property, because if I didn't like the landlord or there was something off, and again, I did the deal with the landlord and my gut was telling me not to.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: And I tell you what I got out of that deal.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Because it didn't work.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's because you've got to work with those people, you've got to be able to do what you're going to be doing and and left to your own devices, so to speak, so that you can, you know, give it maximum concentration.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: You've got somebody on your heels all the time, or somebody that's just making life difficult.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Then you know you, just, it's like a tug of war and nobody's ever going to win, are they?
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: yeah, no exactly I agree completely, mark.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: I actually think that the property is largely incidental, but the people are what's important in.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: In any project that you're doing, whether it's a jv partner or somebody who's just financing it the builder you're working with, absolutely everybody that you, that you have to work with, is more important than the property itself.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think well, it is, it is and I actually do.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: When it comes to like flips and things or doing you know refurbishment, I actually envy the person that says to me I do my own flips, I get in there and I love it and I do my, you know, because that's what they're good at and they, they can get a property, so they've got the skills to be able to go out there, acquire the properties and then they do a majority of the work themselves.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: And I just think you cut out so much there, which I ask you said to be able to do that.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I don't really, but I do look at that sometimes.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I think that must be nice, because some people I know that are quite entrepreneurial, I can't get them off the tools and I said to them.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Where are you in that digger at the moment?
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: You've got people for that and they're like because I love it, I love it, I choose to do this.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I don't have to do this, and I think there's something really in that, and I know a guy that does all his refurbs.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: He's got a few mates that he pulls in, but he pretty much does it himself.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: He's got loads of properties and he just keeps buying the next one and and just that's his hobby and I just think that's quite nice actually that.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I know I've got a topic here, but I just find stuff like that yeah, yeah, totally, totally so what's one of the biggest sort of challenges that you've had to overcome in your property investing so far?
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I expect there's a lot, but is there anything that sort of stands out that you think?
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Well, that was quite a challenging time for me mindset yeah it was massive.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I, yeah, I.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I was the person who used to hide at the back of the room meeting, pretending to be on my phone or suddenly needing the toilet until the break was over in case I had to speak to somebody.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I hated it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I I still.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: If I'm not comfortable with somebody or in a room, I'll still be that person slightly hiding at the back.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: You what?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I don't think I've seen that person.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: You probably would have, but quite a long time ago.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: But honestly, and to get to change and obviously obviously doing a mastermind and having that, that, that whole support network it was, it was, it was a complete personal development thing for me, rather than and then that that obviously gave me the confidence to do the problem.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't bat an eyelid at phoning up an agent now or arranging a thing or going out for a viewing to what two years ago I wouldn't have even done it.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: If they phoned me back, the phone rang.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not speaking to them.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Why would I speak to them?
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Let it go to answer phone.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I don't speak to them.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I don't want to go in the estate agents, I don't want to put an offer in.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: They might say, yes, honestly, massive mindset was yeah, that changed me completely wow.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: So in a sec, matt, if you don't mind, I just want to touch on that because obviously, ever, ever, since I've known you in the environment, with the mastermind groups and everything, it's a safe environment, isn't it?
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I remember I had a conversation with matt at an event that we were at property event and he said to me that you were quite quiet before all of this and and, and I was, so I'm quite interested about this.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: So you know, mindset, we can talk about mindset and it can mean so many different things to people and some people are just go, oh, mindset again.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: But it is so, so important.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: But you've always come across from my perspective as quite a bubbly, you know, friendly, chatty person.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: So to hear that you've had to come out of your shell, so to speak, as well, and that the fact that you've sort of worked on that, so even even to the point where you would like be sat in the back and you you wouldn't talk to people and all of those sort of things, did you just find that you had to push yourself?
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Can I answer this?
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if you want, because Nicola has always been that person that you described the bubbly, gregarious, outgoing type of person, and in a purely social environment.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: I don't think Nicola has ever struggled.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: I think where you struggled is to project yourself in an environment where you felt uncomfortable.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: So, property being new to us, I think that's where Nick struggled.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: So you're absolutely right.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: She is exactly as she comes across, is normally in a good mood, happy to chat to anybody, but where the problem was is when she's chatting to somebody about a subject where we didn't necessarily know.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Well, we certainly don't know everything.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: We don't know everything now, but you know what I mean Is you're talking to somebody about a subject that you're not necessarily 100% confident in yourself.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: I think if you'd had a meeting, it was just okay, just to have a bit of a chin wag, and it's not at all property related you would have seen the Nicola that you know today.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I think that the issue was that she was trying to enter or break into a world that was completely new to us.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: I think that's how.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: That's how I saw it.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I I think more so.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: It was if, if, yeah, if I was comfortable with somebody, then you would see the laughing bubbly me.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: But I could be, I could be.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: People would think I was quite standoffish.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: That's because I couldn't engage, because one, I wouldn't know what to say and I didn't enjoy it.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I still don't know if I'm much better than I was, and I think, again, it's resonating with people.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: If you're comfortable with somebody, that makes a difference.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: But yeah, to me the whole mindset thing was was massive, massive.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: You probably see, it's slightly different well, no, if you ask me the same question, I'd say the same answer mindset.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: But my issue with mindset is different to nicola's issue with mindset.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: I've never had any problem talking to people about any subject, whether I'm an expert on it or a complete novice.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: My issue with mindset is is self-belief?
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: That's that's, that's what I've got is is I mean they always say, don't they?
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: If you believe you can or you believe you can't, you're probably right, yeah, and I have to tell myself constantly that I can do it, yeah, that things will work out.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: And I saw, I saw a post that you put on recently, mark, when you were out walking, and you said it all comes down to self-belief that if you do not believe in yourself and you do not believe you can make a success of this, you're never, ever going to do so.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: And I think that's the issue is for me, as I'd look at it and I'd see all these different strategies and other people being successful, so I'd know that it's realistic, it can be done.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: It was having the self-confidence to believe that I could achieve those things, and it's something that I still struggle with today, still still wake up on a morning and think, god, we can't really do this we're, we're out of our comfort zone.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: Who do we think we are?
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: But the the remedy for for that, I think, is taking action.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if you get on and you said like you said you, you said you do your stuff on a Friday, I do mine on a Sunday.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: I call it Sunday sanity.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: So we sit down and plan what we want to achieve for the week and I think if you set that list and as the week goes by, you're ticking goals off you're, then it's kind of an antidote to this lack of self-belief that I still struggle with.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: I think we all struggle with it.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: No, no.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I appreciate your honesty on all of this and I think there's an element that I've always had where I feel like a fraud.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I think who am I to have a podcast?
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Who am I to talk to people about this sort?
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: of.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Thing.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: And I get it.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: First time I went to a property networking event I was just like who am I going to talk to?
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: I haven't even.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I only own one house and that's the one I live in.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: You think you're going to be surrounded by people that are going to know so much more, and I think that's a lot of it's with the agents as well, letting agents to stay agents.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: We think that they're going to know so much more than us and we're going to look silly because we're not going to know what they know, whereas actually it's the opposite way around A lot of the time they haven't really got much of a clue, because we've done homework on ourselves and we've learned more and we've got ideas and things like that.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's the confidence thing.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: But equally to that, I think you know it is telling yourself that it's just one step at a time.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: We can do this if as long as I just put one foot in front of the other.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: But you have to believe in yourself and I think I've struggled myself for years of having that sort of self-doubt and self what's it called?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Negative, negative, negative talk.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: You know, to myself, that little voice in your head's always been like ma'am, you know, you shouldn't be doing this, you shouldn't be doing that, and a lot of times now I can notice when that's happening.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: It's normally when I start to become tired, because I'm quite positive.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I just think, yeah, come on, we can, we can get through this, but it is, it's, it's that sort of well, it's what it's for a meaning.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: It's the vibration, because we all give off vibrations.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: So do you give off a negative vibration, which a lot of people do, and you'll know those people because they're the ones that when they call you or they walk into a room or they start chatting to you, you just think oh, they're going to moan, drag me down.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Or is it that person that walks into the room or rings you and you think, oh, I love speaking to them.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I'm always fired up after I've had that conversation?
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I think it's trying to keep ourselves having that positive vibration and a lot of the times, what I've found is a bit of self-talk is just gratitude.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: What am I grateful for at the moment?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: A house over my head, I can have a warm shower, I've got two beautiful kids, I'm married to the lovely lady you know I've life's pretty good.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Even if stuff's going wrong, life is still pretty good.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I can still laugh, I can still do majority of the things that I want to do, but so sometimes I I'd like to try and be grateful for 10 things when I'm in, particularly if I'm in a bad mood or I'm a little bit, because we all have it we all have time.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: We want that ourselves.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: It might not be every day, some people will have it every day, some people will get it once a year or something like that, but there are times where you think to yourself, oh, and you go to a funk, don't you, so to speak?
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I tell you what property is good to get you into a funk.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Because, as we were chatting about before we went on here, matt, and you said, you felt bummed in it.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Literally 30 seconds later I'm smacked back down again because something's gone wrong and happened so yeah, yeah, yeah it is very important to make sure that you've got that, that that sort of routine or anything.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: So is there anything specific that you, you two, do to try and help yourselves?
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Continue with your mindset?
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: I, I tell you one.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Going back to what you just said then, about going into the fun I, I stop myself if I think I'm going to start being negative about something.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: And I, as you've probably guessed, I'm quite the positive person.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I said the gap, always tried to see the positive in everything, because it'd be so easy to just sit here and go well, that's going to go wrong, and that's going to go wrong, or I could go.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Well, this could go right, or this, and I consciously stop myself.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Sometimes, if I think I can feel myself doing that like that, I stop myself and, like you said, I think to myself right, what have we done?
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Right, what have we got?
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: What have we got?
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Again, we've got two beautiful we've got.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: We're really lucky.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: We get on with our kids like friends, so they want to spend time with us.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: You know, we live in a lovely house.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: We and yeah, and I do I stop and take a few minutes and go.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Do you know what this is?
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: This is, and I find that really important.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: It doesn't happen very often, but when it does happen, I do need to take that step back because if not, you could sit there crying most days, going why am I doing this, do you know?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's so easy.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: There's that fine line between how you're feeling, especially if you're juggling, spinning loads of plates, which we're doing at the moment, because we're also both still working full-time, we're doing all our property stuff, but we're and doing the flip and doing all of that and still working because we still got to put food on the table and pay the mortgage, you know?
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, so occasionally I will just have a bit of time on my own and just do that, stop, and.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: But I find listening to things I like.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: I like listening to Mindvalley.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: I find that really some of the things on there, some of the you know, I've been listening to one on procrastination lately because I'm awful for procrastinating, but yeah, just things like that.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Or reading I love to read, and sometimes you've just got to step back, haven't you, and just go to yourself.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Do you know what?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: I'm going to watch the telly tonight, or I'm going to, you know, and I know everybody goes.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you need to be putting 100% in, but just sometimes you need to maybe stop, maybe have a glass of something, just put your feet up and go.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I'm going to watch a bit of rubbish on the telly for half an hour, and if that's what it means, push that little reset button, toby.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: There's no shame in it, and you shouldn't feel guilty about having to stop occasionally and taking that step back.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm always telling you to count your blessings, aren't I?
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, always.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I'm always telling him to count his blessings.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Think about what you have got.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Well, that was my naggy voice coming out there.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I do apologise, that was the fishy one coming out there.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Sorry about that, mark.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: There.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: Anything you do, matt, I think, like I said just now, for me it's um, it's about being productive.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: So if I'm feeling a bit down and a bit negative, I try and book some viewings, you know, actually try and achieve something and and it might only be a stepping stone to something way down the line.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: But I think if you feel you're yeah, you're taking action, and sometimes taking action is taking action that's not property related.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: So I might go to the gym for a couple of hours and and you get the endorphin high from from a bit of a workout, a bit of a swim or whatever, and that helps reset things a little bit.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: So I probably dwell on things more than nicola does.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: But if I'm conscious of the fact that I'm things a little bit so, I probably dwell on things more than Nicola does.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: But if I'm conscious of the fact that I'm on a bit of a downer, it's OK.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: Well, what can we actually do?
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: What steps can we take today that are going to help us move forward, that are going to get this mindset shifted back into a positive gear?
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Or, alternatively, what do I need to go and do for myself?
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: And that normally, as I say, is some kind of physical activity.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: They always say physical activity is the best remedy for mental tiredness, don't they?
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, but I think that's what it is.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: For me, mark is is taking positive steps, taking actions that that help the business, or going out and doing something completely different or I do go to the gym sometimes.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: The other night he was going, I could see what was happening.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I went.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Just go to the gym.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Just go to the gym, go on your own.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I don't want to come to the gym sometimes.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: The other night he was going, I could see what was happening.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I went.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Just go to the gym.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Just go to the gym, go on your own.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I don't want to come with you, just go on your own.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: And that's what he did.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: He came back much more positive.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: So probably it's been away from me for a couple of hours.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Mark, that's probably what it was.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: But it's good that you can recognize it and I think that's that's one of the main things that I've learned about myself is recognizing when those sort of you know mental blockers or limiting beliefs or funks start to arise.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: It's almost sort of let's right, I need to do something now to sort that out, and it's understanding what it is for you to do that and that's a bit of trial and error and things.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: But if people take anything away from this conversation, it really is.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: You will have these issues.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I like to go for a walk, so I'll go into nature.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: We're lucky, behind us We've got like a trans-Pennine, trails and everything, so I can just get out there.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: And I do that every day, twice a day actually, anyway, for my own sort of sanity, if you like.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: But I just love to get out there, just love to walk.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Now, sometimes I'll listen to an audiobook or a podcast or some news.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I won't listen to anything.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I'll just, you know, take everything in and that's it.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: For me that's a nice release and I almost use it as like a walking meditation, if you like, to just let my thoughts go.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Try not to.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, I the reason.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: A lot of the time you see my videos and I'm walking through the woods or something like that is because I've had a minute.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I first thought of something and I I thought, all right, that's gold, that is.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about that and it's just those things that sort of come to you as you're going through, but it helps me as a release to sort of share it with others as well.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: So I like that.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: So we were talking before that you're looking at getting more control on properties, keeping properties.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: At the moment You're looking at doing lease options and assisted sales is something that you're doing flips at the moment.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: But I just like to say that it's nice to have that sort of toolkit of different property strategies to be able to call on to, because I think a lot of people really struggle in their property investing when maybe they only really know one thing and they're trying to shoehorn that one thing that they know into every single property out there.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: And that's where they say it doesn't work.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I can't find any deals.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: No, because having that sort of toolkit to say this could work as a lease option, this could be a potential rent.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: To rent, this could be a flip.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Property is is very, very powerful, isn't it?
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: And how have you found that?
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: exactly that.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: I think um nick mentioned that we, you know, we've invested in our education.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: We're aware of all the different well, that's a bit arrogant.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: We're aware that different strategies exist out there, that it's not a one size fits all.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: So we'll go on viewings and we're trying to do five viewings a week but we'll just go and look at houses where we see a problem of some description whether the house is in a bit of a state and it needs work doing it, or possibly where the vendors have got an issue and we can maybe help them.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: And instead of going in and thinking to ourselves, okay, we're going to look for an assisted sale, we go in and we look at the property and we try and talk to the vendors if we're direct to vendor, figure out what the issues are, and then from the toolbox, okay, out what the issues are.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: And then from the toolbox, okay, well, this doesn't work as an assisted tell, but it would be perfect as a lease option if it works for the vendors.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: So it's a question of trying to find a solution that fits the problem, as opposed to trying to find a problem that fits your one solution.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah totally yeah, no, definitely agree on that one, that that is good, that is good.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: And so what is the sort of future goals for you both?
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: I think I think we'll continue to do flips and assisted sales.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: I think just just our background in planning building regs, architecture and design and it just makes sense for us to keep going in that, in that field.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, we are conscious of the fact, as I said, that it's irregular.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: It crystallizes itself once and that's it.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: So we do need to generate passive, ongoing income.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: So I think at some point in the very near future we will be starting to look for properties that we can buy and hold.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Now, bristol is not brilliant for buy-to-lets.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: The numbers just don't stack here.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: We've got a little bit of a personal issue with HMOs, which we can go into if you want to, so we're going to have to find a strategy that works.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: I think we're both really, really keen to look at tenant buyers, because not only does it work for us, it kind of solves this moral issue that we've got of actually helping people as opposed to just helping ourselves.
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: We've got two kids that are either side of 20 years old.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: We're aware of the fact that they're going to struggle to get onto the property ladder and we think, well, if we could help our two, why can't we go out and help other people's kids as well.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: So if we can provide an absolutely beautiful starter home for people that they rent for three years, four years, five years, but they know it's their home and they've got the option to buy it down the line, I think that's the route we're going to try and go down.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: yeah, is is lease options, but with tenant buyers in mind is kind of excuse me, the exit strategy yeah, yeah, we feel really passionate about it, having kids of that age, and obviously all our friends have got kids at the same age and there's, you know, they.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: They don't stand a chance of getting on the property ladder.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: And when we go out and do viewings we've we've viewed loads of HMOs over the months and that and we go out and I'm nearly in tears when I see what state some of these kids are having to live in and it really upsets me and I know I'm a lady of a certain age or quite anything, but it's um, it really really bothers me and I'm thinking if I wouldn't happy for my kids to live in there.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not happy for anybody's kids to live in there and and I think this is kind of sewn its way through everything we've- kind of the underlying mantra to what we do is that it's got to be suitable for our own kids.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: You know, if it's not, then it's not good enough for anyone.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: No, no, but yeah, I think that's the way we're going to be going markets we'll continue to going markets, will continue to do flips and if an assisted sale is a possibility, then that's even better than a flip and better for us and better for the vendors, invariably.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: But yeah, lease options where we can help people get decent value for their house and, at the same time, set up properties that youngsters can move into and they can feel it's their home from day one.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: I think that's kind of where we're heading.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: It bothers me that people are having to sell houses for less than they should be and it also bothers me that there's so many empty houses.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: So if we can find a solution for them, either through the assisted sale or the lease option, one get a family or people living in a nice, safe, secure, beautiful house, but also the person who's selling it gets exactly what they want.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: You know, winner, winner it's I'd love to be.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: You know, we we feel really strongly about it doing the right thing by other people and helping ourselves.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: We're trying to run a business at the end of the day.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: You know, when we're not a charity, we have to think of ourselves as well.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: But if we can help ourselves but also do the right thing by others, yeah, that would make me very happy.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: I think we're focused on creative strategies as opposed to straight purchases.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: I think there's a big opportunity for win-win with creative strategies.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: As Nick said, it must be really, really disheartening for vendors to feel forced to accept less than they would ideally like, simply because that's the only offer that's available to them.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, if we can go in and we can give them what they want or what they need and they're prepared to be a little bit creative, then they win out of it.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: But it helps us too.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah I think it's good.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I think you can see the passion, which is always something you know.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: You feel strongly about it, which case then you'll do it.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: That that's.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: You know that.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: That that stands um stands to reason.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: But I love the fact that you know it's not just about wealth, it's not just about, you know, getting getting properties and all of this sitting on the beach and it's like a mission and that that is.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: That is really, really good.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: And yeah, there's some shocking properties out there that I've walked around to myself and just said you're doing a refurb on this or you know that sort of thing.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: This needs a lot of work.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's fine, you can let it out now.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: It's now.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: It's like, no, you can't.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: People are still living in the dark ages.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: But I love the tenant buyer things because particularly that could work well as well with the way the renter's reform is going, obviously, with the new way that tenancies are and stuff, if you actually get somebody in there that's got a bit of skin in the game that thinks to themselves.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: This is my step to get on the property ladder.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: You know you're killing two birds with one stone with the way things are changing and with the way things are going forward.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: So I love that, I love the concept of that as well and I think you know that really does lend itself to.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: You know, purchase lease options.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: With the renter's reform bill in mind, mark, a tenant buyer is perfect because it lines up your exit, doesn't it?
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: Of course it does.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: You're not worried about evicting a tenant so that you can sell a house because you're selling it to your tenant.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: So from our point of view, it's a brilliant win the exit's lined up.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: You would expect somebody who's living in their own home to look after it a little bit better, so you've got none of the maintenance issues.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: But, as I say from from from their point of view, the tenants point of view, you're providing something that's not just the house we live in.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: This is our home.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: We might not own it today, but three years from now, four years from now, it's going to be our names on the on the on the land registry documents, and I just think it's such a powerful way to help young people get onto the property ladder not even young people.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, we had a couple living next door to us, were in their mid to late 30s and they've been renting all their life.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: They would have loved the opportunity to buy their own home.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: And we look at that and think, well, there's definitely a way that you can help them.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: It's very much about win-win and I know this is going to sound really, really twee, but genuinely we're not focused entirely on, as you say, making as much money as possible and living on the beach for the rest of our lives.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: We've got two kids that are kind of the guiding light for everything that we do.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: One of them's just walked in and he's being a clown off camera, um, and they kind of set the, the, the moral compass for us yeah, so he would like a ferrari if we could buy him one.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'd do nothing and live on the beach, I'd do nothing and live on the beach.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: So he wants the dream.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: You're going to have to supply him.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: The dream, are you?
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: We'll do all the hard work.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: That's a great idea.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he needs to wait until he's got kids of his own and then he sees.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: You know you'll see life in a different light.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: I need to have a Ferrari if it weren't for them.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's brilliant.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: That's brilliant and it is something to strive for.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: I think you know you've got the toolkit now to be able to go out there and do those things.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: And, of course, you know you always put yourselves in the right places and you know you're nice people at the end of the day.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: You know you're people, people, so you're great chatting to people.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: You know you feel a certain trust, a certain kindred whenever you speak to guys and girls like yourselves, and I think that goes a long way in what you're trying to achieve and what you're trying to do.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: So, no, I love that concept.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's really, really cool.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: So I've got a little quick fire round.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be quick fire or anything.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you some questions.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: You can either ask them between you or you can answer them individually.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: It's entirely up to you two.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Are you all right to?
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: do that?
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Is it a pop quiz?
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: I'm better at them.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: I'm quite good at pop quizzes as well, but no, it's a bit of fun, it's just a bit of fun Okay.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: So the first one is what's the best?
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: You can both answer this individually.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: First one is what's the best?
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: You can both answer this individually.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: What's the best advice you've been given or advice you've?
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: heard recently that you really liked.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: I would say trust your instincts.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Trust your instincts.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that would be mine.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: You're not allowed to say yeah, no is it advice or is it?
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: is it a mindset thing?
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Is it?
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: If you're happy to look at yourself in the mirror at night, then you're doing the right thing, I think.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Good, I like that.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if you like the person that looks back at you, then you're on the right track.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, that's a good one.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: That's a good one, so you can both individually answer this as well, if you like.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: If you can have dinner with three people that are alive, anybody you like to sit down and have conversations with?
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Which three people would you like to sit down with, oh?
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: it depends on the evening, I can figure it's your evening, you do.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: You do how you want to do it.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: If I was having a fun evening, I'd probably say ollie reed.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Who would I say?
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: I'd probably say Ollie Reid.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Who would I say?
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: I'd probably say the Queen, the late Queen, leonardo da Vinci, nice and Me my friends are saying me, I don't think so I would probably I'd say Jesus as well, because I'd want to question him and know if he actually did exist.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: That's a good one.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: There's a guest list that I'm not going to imagine.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: I would definitely have Brian Clough.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: Brian Clough was a for those who don't know, for the youngsters listening, brian Clough was a football manager that took two very, very mediocre clubs, made them world beaters almost, and I mean Nottingham Forest won the European Cup twice.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: And the reason I really like Brian Clough is that he had just a rare gift to take ordinary people and make them believe they were superstars, and I really want to know how he did that.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: So I'd really like to talk to Brian Clough.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: I got a bit of a thing about Ian Fleming, the guy who wrote the James Bond books.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: I think he would be a fascinating person to talk to because his legacy lives on today, but he was very much a man of his times, wasn't he?
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: He was a misogynist, he wasn't a particularly nice person, so I'd love to have a conversation with him and then, if we wanted a little bit of fun, yeah, I think somebody like ollie reed or richard harris, yeah, what a hellraiser.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: The kind of person that you think, oh, do you know what I'd give anything to have a lifestyle like that?
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: And you know in your heart of hearts, you're never, ever gonna get anywhere near it.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I think that would maybe be my three I like that.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: That's good.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: That's imagine having them all together I could think of plenty more as well, mark all right, moving on, um.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: So have you both got a sort of top three books that you've enjoyed, that have helped you, that you've learned a lot from?
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, compound Effect.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Absolutely love that book.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: I think it's brilliant.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: I also listen to Darren Daly every morning.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: That he releases Comes out like stupid o'clock here.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that book.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's great.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I also, like I also really enjoyed reading.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: I'm going to probably pronounce it wrong now.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Iggy Kai, oh, iggy.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Kai, yeah, yeah.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Iggy Kai.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: I think that's a brilliant concept.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: What's my third one?
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Short work, probably Property Magic.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: To be honest, that's probably.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: That's a bit of a game changer, that book.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: It opens your eyes to a lot of things.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Game changer, that book.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: So uh, opened your eyes to it.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally totally.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely go for rich dad, poor dad.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: I think it's one that everybody would reel out, but it's a properly good introduction to that, to that, to that whole world that we're working in.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: I took a lot out of atomic habits.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just that idea of if you can improve every single little aspect of your life by one percent, the compound effect is enormous.
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: I quite enjoyed, icky guy, that idea of finding something that you're good at, finding something that people need and finding something that adds value.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think those, those would probably be my three of the of the three most practical, definitely atomic habits.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: I think that's fantastic, that book yeah, and I'm the same about the compound effect.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's just superb, superb book and I really embraced his whole.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the little and it and it can work both ways you can compound up or you can compound down.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: So so sorry.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: The builder's just dropped off a receipt for us all right, no problem, always on the clock.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Never get a respite, do you never get a respite?
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Well, it's been absolutely amazing, as it always is, to see you both, to have a conversation with you both as well and have a good chat.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: I'm absolutely stoked as well that you're members of education to action in the community there and they're dipping in there because you've got a lot of value to offer the community in in help and, of course, we can help you every step of the way going forward as well.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: But you're both great personalities, you're both great people and I say it's always an honor and a pleasure to have you come and chat to me and to spend a bit of time with me.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: So I really, really do appreciate it well, the feeling's mutual.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the feeling is definitely mutual.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for asking us.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all right.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: That's all right.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Got any final thoughts before we wrap this one up?
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Just keep on keeping on innit.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Keep on keeping on believe in yourself.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: surround yourself with the right people.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't be afraid to ask if you need some help.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: That's one thing I was found when I, especially during my mastermind year, admitting that maybe I needed some help occasionally.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: And it takes a lot of guts to admit that maybe you need help.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, surround yourself with the right people and you know they're going to help you.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: So, uh, yeah amazing, amazing stuff.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: Well, once again, thank you for coming on.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure to have you.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you, mark.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Brilliant stuff.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: So if you've enjoyed this, then please feel free to like, share and subscribe.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Of course, we are always looking at having interesting guests on the podcast.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I always like to get people on, actually, that I get on really, really well with, because I find the conversations better.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: So it's great, and I'd like to also invite you guys back on you know, maybe in 12 months time, see what you're up to then, if you're up for it.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Brilliant stuff.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I'm glad they said that, otherwise it would have been embarrassing, a little bit awkward, great stuff.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Right, well, let's wrap this one up then.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: So thank you ever so much for listening to this.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: If you want to reach out to Nikki or Matt, what's the best way so they can sort of reach you?
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: You can find us both on Facebook.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: However, if anybody wanted to drop us an email, our email is hello at r4propertiescouk.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Marvellous.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: There you go, then.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: Great stuff, great stuff.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, so, without further ado, I look forward to you coming and joining us in the next episode very, very soon.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Thank you for your time today and bye for now.