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Max Wilson - Part 1 · Rusty's Garage

0:02
A listener production.
0:14
I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
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This episode is one that many of you have been asking for.
0:30
Thank you very much for the messages via social media.
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And it is a little bit of a where are they now story.
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I'm at home for the recording.
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It's 7.30am here, so I've got a much needed morning coffee, while my guest is enjoying the mid-afternoon in his part of the world.
0:46
Max Wilson has been back home in Sao Paulo, Brazil for about
0:50
15 years now, having raced all over the world.
0:54
If you remember him in supercars with Briggs or Dick Johnson Racing and more in the early 2000s, you'll remember someone who was incredibly fast from the get-go and sure turned heads during a golden period that those entrenched in the sport would seem to have had the upper hand in.
1:13
He added some international flavor and lots of infectious passion that he still has.
1:20
Rivals might argue that you need more ruthlessness, but Max was always very true to his heart, and you'll hear that in the conversation.
1:29
What you may not realise is the depth of experience on his CV.
1:33
From a door to Europe opening via Michael Schumacher's then manager, Willy Weber, the star-studded line-up of Brazilians that he raced against as a young bloke, some sliding doors moments that enabled him to race those wild DTM cars,
1:50
and how daunted he was at first until some words of wisdom from a German racing star put him in the right frame of mind.
1:58
Turning down a Porsche sports car drive for Le Mans to focus on Formula One.
2:04
Winning a Williams shootout and testing for the famous team.
2:09
Forging good ties with Patrick Head and a moment of realisation in Sir Frank Williams' office.
2:16
Having a drive with Minardi pulled from underneath him and taking a punt on Champ Car.
2:22
How loyalty perhaps cost him another season there in North America.
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Coming home to Brazil when the supercars chapter that he truly loved came to an end and winning the fiercely competitive Brazilian stock car title there.
2:36
Plus the next generation Wilson racer and much more.
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Normally, as you know, I tend to start these chats with early life, but his work nowadays has a bit of a parallel with mine.
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So I thought we'd kick off the discussion there.
2:53
Max, welcome.
2:54
It is so good to catch up with you.
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How are you?
2:57
Man, I'm better now talking to you, my friend.
3:00
It's been such a long time.
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And actually, I'm a bit emotional right now to be talking to you and talking about our time together back in Australia.
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So thank you so much for inviting me to your podcast.
3:13
I know lots of people that follow the Supercars Championship will be excited about this.
3:17
Firstly, we're talking to you in Brazil.
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That is where life is now for you.
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Tell us a little bit about that.
3:23
And you are working, a bit like me, in a broadcasting sense nowadays on covering Formula One, aren't you?
3:30
That's right, I came to Brazil, I left Australia, I came back to Brazil in early 2008.
3:36
That was just after WPS from Craig Gordon, I don't know if you remember, WPS team, they just shut the doors for one day to the next.
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So when that happened, I just decided, okay, I might be going back home for a while and see what happens there.
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So I came to Brazil and funny enough, on that same year, I ended up doing the endurance races with Brad Jones, BJR.
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And I drove those couple of races.
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Brad actually was really good fun.
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You know, I just loved Brad.
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You know, I knew him from the racing.
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But I never got that close to him.
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But when I drove for him, it was really nice to me and the whole team was nice to me.
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And he ended up inviting me over to go back to Australia in the following year, which was 09 to be racing for him full time.
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And, but at the same time, you know, I had been away from Brazil for nearly 15 years back then.
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And then I decided, you know, maybe it's better, you know, it's time to go back home and be close to my parents, my family.
4:40
So I decided to come back to Brazil and, but still, I went to Australia a couple of times for holiday, but I so miss Australia.
4:49
You know, my friends, you and some great friends that I made in the meantime when I was there.
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So I really have a really soft spot for Australia and all the people I met when I was there.
5:01
So the stuff that you're doing now around Formula One for Australian fans and for New Zealand listeners is a bit like Fox or Sky.
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I think it's a cable network that you are on.
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Is it just the hosting, Max, or you're actually commentating the F1 races as well?
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What are you doing?
5:18
Actually, when I first started was back about 10 years ago already, back in 2014.
5:24
I raced, when I came back to Brazil, I started racing stock car series.
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I don't know if you know this series, but it's the biggest series in Brazil.
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I did that for about 11 years.
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And I was invited as a guest commentator to be brought in the broadcast team for Formula One.
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And back then, Forma was here in Brazil in an open channel and also on cable.
5:47
I was doing the cable version of it, but about three, four years ago, this changed broadcasters, which is a different one today.
5:57
And I'm also part of the team, but now for open TV.
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So free to wear good stuff.
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Free to everyone.
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So, you know, motorsport, especially Formula One in Brazil is very big, always been very big because of all the history that Brazilians had in F1.
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It started with 50 parties and then PKS and so many other drivers.
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So instead of being in Brazil and I've been joined to do this, I remember, you know, when I was in Australia, you and.
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and Neil Crompton and Larcombe doing the same thing.
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I think I learned a little bit from you guys and trying to do my best here.
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I hope you learned all the good things, not the bad things, Max.
6:34
Hey, that kind of leads me, because fans of the podcast would like to know how you got started.
6:41
Was there a Brazilian hero for you?
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Was it the late Ayrton Senna?
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Who were the people that kind of inspired a young Max Wilson from the Brazilian side?
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I would say that I'm 51 today.
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I was born in 1972.
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So I started to watch F1 in the early 80s.
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And in the early 80s, the Brazilian driver that I was doing really well was Nelson Piquet.
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And so was the first one for me was Piquet.
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I didn't see, I didn't watch much Emerson Filippoli, which we, you know, was the first Brazilian.
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to do WMF1.
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So I started to watch F1 because of PK.
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I was a big supporter of him.
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And as a matter of fact, I know him now.
7:24
Wow.
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I met him years ago.
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And I live in a condo, and his son lives in the same condo as me, so we show off each other nowadays.
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But right after that, Ayrton Senna was the next one.
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And Senna for me was a mark in motorsport because I think motorsport in general, from the driver's perspective, changed after Senna.
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I think, you know, he was the first one to, as far as I know at least, and I'm not saying this because he's Brazilian, that realized that to be a racing driver, you also have to be an athlete.
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You have to prepare yourself in different ways and different manners to succeed in this sport.
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And I think, you know, after Senna, so many drivers, you know, sort of followed his footsteps and his blueprints.
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And also for sure, the evolution from back in the day to nowadays have been great as well.
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But Senna was, you know, and also being Brazilian, I know that so many things he did to Brazil.
8:23
And to people within Brazil, he was the first one also that I, as far as I know, that used his fame and status to help other people, which is very unique because normally people when get some exposure and things like this, they try to help themselves, which is fair enough.
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But in Alcena, he helped a lot of people and the people are still being helped nowadays almost 30 years after his passing because what he did in Brazil.
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So...
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was a guy that was great on track and was even better outside.
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So I think, you know, for me, he was just great.
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Great.
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I mean, he, for many listening, was a hero, but I love...
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that impact that he had on you, Max, and the things like his foundation that live on today and are doing great things today.
9:11
Am I right in saying in your early childhood, before you kind of came back to Brazil, was perhaps your father or your mother working in Germany, and you spent the very early part of your life in Germany, is that right?
9:22
Actually, I was born in Germany.
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My parents lived in Germany for about six or seven years, you know, the late 60s, early 70s.
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So I was born there.
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But when they came back to Brazil, I was only two years old, so I don't have any memories from those days.
9:38
But funny enough, later in life, I moved back to Germany only for half a year, but to drive.
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I was already racing.
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I did a German Formula 3, which was the first championship that I did outside Brazil.
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When I left Brazil, the first place I went was to Germany.
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But that has nothing to do with the fact that I was born in Germany.
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That was actually a coincidence because in that year prior of me going to Germany, I was doing a South American F3.
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And one of the races was a support race for F1 in Argentina.
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And I ended up winning that race.
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And Willy Weber, which I don't know if you remember him.
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Yeah, Michael Schumacher's manager.
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Yeah.
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Exactly.
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He, when I was on the podium after the race, he came over to me and introduced himself and ended up inviting me to do a test for his team.
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He used to have a F3 team in Germany, which Michael drove, Ralph drove, even Joseph Verstappen drove for that team, you know, back in the day.
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So I ended up doing a test for him and he brought me over to Germany.
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So that's how I ended up going to Germany.
10:44
Amazing.
10:45
We fast forwarded a little bit here.
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I want to come back to that chapter in a moment.
10:48
How did you get your first go-kart?
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How old were you when you got it?
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And did you take to it like a duck to water, Max?
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Did it come easily to you?
10:58
Actually, it was a funny thing because when I was a kid, you know, I used to live down south of Brazil.
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And when I was like six, seven years old, I wanted, in Brazil was very popular for kids, like a mini buggy kind of thing, which has nothing to do with racing.
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But I wanted one of those things.
11:15
But when I turned, when I was 10 years old, my family moved to Interlagos in Sao Paulo.
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We were from down south, we came to Sao Paulo and then...
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We moved to Interinterlago.
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So I lived less than a mile from the racetrack itself.
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On my 11th birthday, I woke up in the morning as every kid expecting a present or some nice gift, and there was nothing.
11:40
I stayed quiet.
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I went to school.
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And when I came back to school, nothing again.
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And then I remember my mom, she told me, let's go to the supermarket to buy some groceries.
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I said, all right, let's do that.
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And nobody gave me even their happy birthday or anything.
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I was there kind of sad, you know, going to the supermarket.
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When I came back, there was a go-kart in the garage of our house.
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So my dad gave me a go-kart and a helmet.
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And that's how I ended up, you know, starting with this go-kart thing.
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Before that, I used to go with my father to watch some races.
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And funny enough, when I started to go to the go-kart track in Interlagos, Emerson Filipe Pauly was racing go-karts.
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Because after F1 and before he went to America to do IndyCars, he raced go-karts in Brazil for a couple of years.
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So I used to watch him and racing and everything.
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So my dad gave me a go-kart, but I think because my dad never had anything to do with the sport.
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When he gave me the go-kart, I think he thought it was kind of a toy kind of thing.
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He didn't realize how complex and how expensive that thing was to be up and running.
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So it was not a very good surprise for him, but that's how I started.
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Amazing.
12:58
Who were the kind of other drivers?
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I mean, you mentioned Emerson, that's huge.
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What about some of the other drivers around you at the time?
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Because there's so many Macs that kind of came through in your era there.
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I mean, your great mates with Luciano Berti, who else would be in the mix there?
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Maybe Riccardo Zonta and a few others.
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There's lots that were around you in that period, wasn't there?
13:17
I'll tell you a few names, I'll throw you a few names from back to the era.
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Barry Callow, Christian Fittipoli, Zonta, Berti, Pisonian, Elio Castroneves, Tony Cannon, Cristiano D'Amata, and probably forgetting some other guys.
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Bruno Juncker, which did change cars and was a F1 test driver as well.
13:39
So there were, I don't know, maybe 10 or 15 guys from those days that some are still racing today.
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And the ones that are not racing anymore, they did pretty good in that era, which I think is not a coincidence because to me...
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to become special when you're first starting to develop yourself as, as anything, you have to have a strong playing field to be, you know, racing against.
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So I think when you have the whole bunch of kids that are talented or for whatever reason they do kind of well, I think they push each other to a higher level and, uh,
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So in the very beginning, I was very, very lucky that I was among those guys and we all pushed each other and we all learned from each other.
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And that was a great opportunity.
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They are A-list, absolute A-list names that you've rattled off there from Champ Car to F1 and more.
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Amazing.
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You brought back some great memories of those people.
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Did it just consume you, Max?
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Were you like, this is me.
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I love this thing.
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And I don't know, maybe school wasn't so important.
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Did it become an obsession kind of thing for you?
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You really fell in love with it?
14:51
It did, Rusty.
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In the very beginning, it did.
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But for me, it was kind of difficult at the beginning because one thing that as a child, you don't have many experience.
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And my dad, as I mentioned to you, he didn't have any background in water sport or anything.
15:08
But at the beginning, it was very difficult because we didn't have money to do it.
15:11
Wow.
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I started with a very simple background and it was very difficult to get things going.
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And there were a couple of things that to me was very helpful and very thankful to God that some things happened to me back in the day.
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The first one was,
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My dad, he founded a race team, a go-kart race team.
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And for whatever reason, the guy that used to hire the team, which was also very simple guy and a very simple background, I would say.
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He just realized that I just loved it and my dad didn't have much money to do it.
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So he didn't charge my father or...
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whatever, he had some spare parts he used to put on my go-kart.
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And that's how I started, because if it wasn't for this guy, apart from my dad, I wouldn't start in this sport.
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And then I started racing and I started learning and started to get some results.
16:06
But when I was like 17 years old, which back in the day was a time when kids were going from go-karting to race cars, I didn't go because I didn't have money again.
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So I started my own go-kart team, you know, because I thought, you know, I got to do something.
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I'm almost, you know, 18, 19 years old, so I got to do something in my life.
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And I put together a race team.
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And one day, I was testing some go-karting and doing some things.
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And there was a guy there that I'd never met before he came to me.
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and tapped on my shoulder and said, listen, he introduced himself and said, listen, I got a kid on my team.
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He also had a race team.
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And his father saw you drive around here and he asked me if you could teach his son, which back then, you know, go-karting or motorist sport, there was no coaching or anything.
16:56
Coaches, yeah, yeah.
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And I heard that, I said, man, that doesn't make any sense.
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How can I teach somebody to drive?
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But, you know, in the end, I ended up accepting.
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He paid me some money, which back in the day was very important.
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With this money, actually, I bought my first car, you know, my road car, which I still got today.
17:15
What is that?
17:15
What did you buy?
17:16
What was your first car?
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I sent you some pictures afterward, but it's like Volkswagen.
17:21
It looks like a Golf Volkswagen.
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But in Brazil, the name is Gol, like Gol from soccer, G-O-L. And that's my very first car I still got on this day.
17:31
Oh.
17:31
Awesome.
17:31
Awesome.
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Keep going.
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So coaching sort of helps you to keep building, I guess.
17:37
Actually, I was coaching this kid and after a year, this kid's father, I don't know if he was thankful to my work or whatever.
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He put a go, a Formula Four team together with this guy that first contacted me to do this job.
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So that's how my transition from go-karting to race cars happened through, you know, coaching a kid in the go-kart days.
18:01
It must have been immensely hands-on for you, Max, learning about what the cart and then the car needs.
18:09
And then separately, I guess you're starting to learn about the business, aren't you?
18:13
Because it's a business.
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You have to understand how to look after sponsors, get them involved, maybe contracts start to become a thing and so on.
18:21
How eye-opening was all of that?
18:23
Now, that was so helpful, so important to my career, even to these days, because when I first started to do that, was the first time that I was like in the other side of the wall.
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Sometimes I was driving and sometimes I was taking care of the team.
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I was teaching my driver and doing things that really taught me a lot.
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about the sport, you know, I started to work in the side of the sport that I never really had much, you know, contact with as a team manager or team owner or, you know, teaching and paying bills and doing things like this and understanding, you know, how
19:01
people's mind work when they're trying to do some, you know, learning something, or when they're frustrated about something or happy about something, which, you know, in motor sport, happen everything, every moment.
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So it was really, you know, helpful for me to learn a lot about a lot of things.
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And so that part of my life was a good foundation for me to keep on going on this career, on this journey.
19:25
So you get this, I think you said Formula Ford, right?
19:28
Does that then, with the establishment of the cart team and so on, does that get you inspired about maybe I can go to Europe, maybe I can pursue something here in a dream sense?
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And how did you start to piece all that together?
19:44
Actually, the first time I realized that, okay, I might make a...
19:49
a career out of there and see if I have some, you know, some luck and if I work a lot.
19:55
Uh, even before that, because I, I raised only go karts in Brazil and the most I went, you know, as far as go kart racing is concerned, I was racing in Argentina, in South America, some countries around here, but I had some, I knew some drivers from Brazil, like, you know, Barrichello, Fittipolis and so many others that they went to race in Europe, you know, world championship and things like this.
20:17
And they did it right.
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And I was doing it right against these guys.
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So back then I realized, OK, I see that I can sort of defend myself in Brazil.
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I can defend myself about, you know, against people that are racing abroad in a very strong championship worldwide and and I can race against them.
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So back then, I realized, OK, I might have a chance if I work hard and if I do things right.
20:42
And from back then,
20:44
I also got inspired by so many other people.
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I'm going to give you an example.
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In the late 80s, early 90s, when these things were happening, I loved, as you know, I liked fighting.
20:58
I liked fighting.
20:59
Martial arts.
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Exactly.
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And back in the day, I was a big fan of Mike Tyson.
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And the one day I read an interview about Mike Tyson, he was saying, every day I wake up at 4.30 in the morning to train because I know that none of my rivals, they do that.
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And for me, that message was, man, you should want to get something, you should want to get somewhere.
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You got to do better.
21:26
You got to work harder than everybody.
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And for me, especially because I was in a sport where money was very, very important.
21:34
And on top of that, I didn't have any.
21:36
So I had to work harder again.
21:39
So I tried my best.
21:40
I did so many things to get as ready as I could get for any opportunity.
21:46
So, for instance, when I first raced Formula 4, my very first race I won.
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Because, not because I was more or less talented than anybody.
21:56
I think because I worked harder and I tried harder and I wanted that thing so much.
22:02
And I knew that was...
22:03
The hunger, Max.
22:04
The hunger.
22:05
Yeah.
22:05
Every single opportunity could be...
22:07
the difference between keep on going or finish.
22:11
So for me, I had that from the very beginning, and that's how I still operate.
22:18
Even in different things, like in the broadcasting thing, it's a different sort of environment, but I try my best as well, because that's how I was built up, I think.
22:28
Let's just deviate here before we continue the timeline of your racing career.
22:33
The fitness thing, the martial arts thing that interests me.
22:37
Firstly, a funny story for our audience.
22:39
You and I and Mark Winterbottom, when we went to China, we went to China for supercars in 2005, I think it was.
22:47
And the producers of the TV coverage said, hey, hey, hey, you know, we want to get a bit of the culture.
22:52
We want to try a few different things.
22:53
Let's do some stories.
22:54
And I said, hey, why don't we get Max's?
22:56
Max loves martial arts and things like that.
22:59
I had just at that time got a black belt in Taekwondo and we got frosty as well.
23:04
And the three of us, we went to a Kung Fu class, didn't we?
23:07
It was awesome.
23:08
That was a great day.
23:12
Actually, I said to you, I found that footage years ago when actually a copy on my Instagram because that day was so good.
23:20
I mean, it was fun because we were doing something that we liked.
23:23
Exactly.
23:23
Especially you and I. Yep.
23:25
But I was with friends, you know, I was with you and Frosty, which we were all mates from work and from the motor sport and the V8.
23:33
So it was a great day, great memory.
23:34
And there was a great opportunity to do that in such an amazing place like China.
23:39
So it was good fun.
23:41
But you've always loved fitness and clearly fitness is still an important thing to you today.
23:45
So you've talked about the kind of gravitation, if you like, to the fighting side.
23:50
Is it jiu-jitsu?
23:52
What is the thing that really you were doing to enhance your fitness on the racing side?
23:58
Actually, I started doing martial arts before I started racing.
24:02
Back in Brazil when I was a child, today it's not like this anymore, but back in the day, judo was sort of compulsory in primary school.
24:12
I don't know if you know that Brazil is the biggest Japanese...
24:16
community outside of Japan.
24:18
Okay.
24:19
You know, after the Second War, you know, a lot of Japanese came to Brazil.
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So there are a lot of Japanese people, especially in Sao Paulo, where I live.
24:27
So judo was my first, you know, contact with martial art.
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And judo was so important for me, even in motorsport, because there is a lot to do with balance, you know, and leverage and things that you use, you know, very different things.
24:41
And also, as far as driving, you sort of, you know, use that thing as well.
24:47
after I did some kickboxing for a few years.
24:49
But my daddy wasn't a big fan of fighting because he was scared of me getting hurt and things like this.
24:55
And also, I loved it, but I couldn't compete because I was racing already, which was my first, you know,
25:03
It was the priority back in the day, and it still is.
25:05
So I just did it because I like it.
25:08
And I did that on and off for a few years.
25:11
When I went to Australia, I also found a Kung Fu studio back in... Gold Coast.
25:18
Gold Coast was very close to where Vesco office was, just behind that.
25:24
Okay.
25:24
So I used to go there.
25:25
Actually, I drove my Sifu, which was my teacher, to his wedding day.
25:30
I drove him to the wedding and that was fun.
25:32
So good.
25:33
And then I found a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighter teacher.
25:36
He had the gene there.
25:37
And then I became friends with, I don't know if you know, Nathan Corbett, with Carnage.
25:42
Yeah, I'm a good mate with him.
25:44
I still talk to him to this day.
25:46
Excellent.
25:47
Last few years I started to do, I mean back to Muay Thai in Brazil.
25:50
So I do that, but just for fun, just because I like it.
25:54
And I think, you know, helps to a lot of different things, concentration and fitness and things like this.
26:00
And it's more fun than be running around like, you know, like I do as well sometimes.
26:16
Max has been right around the world, and he has been lucky enough to capture the hearts and minds of Australia.
26:22
Many thanks to his manager, Greg P. Weasidil, who has plenty of stories waiting for you in the garage library.
26:29
A good person with good lessons.
26:31
Just get yourself around good people.
26:34
And you have to learn that very quickly.
26:36
And you can get your round by by talking to people.
26:39
And if there's any doubt in some people, just don't go near them.
26:43
I've always thought that.
26:45
You want to win a motor racing, well, go and buy a new race car.
26:49
Don't find excuses.
26:50
Just get good people in you.
26:51
Which is what I did with the young kids when we had Van Diemen.
26:55
I got good engineers around them, older engineers, so they taught and learned.
26:59
Help shape them.
26:59
Yeah, yeah.
27:01
You gotta step into the fast-paced world of motorsport but through the eyes of such a respected driver-manager, Greg Peewee Siddle.
27:09
I love saying Peewee.
27:10
Okay.
27:11
That's enough fun from me.
27:13
Back to Max.
27:15
Let's come back to what you were talking about before the European progression.
27:19
You mentioned about Billy Weber and he was Michael Schumacher's manager and so on.
27:24
Is that kind of the moment that really helped the European move?
27:30
How big was that step?
27:32
And it came, Max, if I'm right, at a time of change for Billy Weber with that team too.
27:37
And that made it tricky for you, didn't it?
27:39
Actually, very much so, Russ.
27:41
What happened was when I went to, I got that race in Argentina and Vili Weber invited me to do a test on his team a couple of months later.
27:49
When I did that, which was in Hockenheim, Germany, Franz Stolz, as you probably know him, he used to be the team manager from Vili Weber, this race team.
27:58
So I met Franz Stolz there.
27:59
He took me to the racetrack and I did really know what I had to do there and he liked it.
28:05
And so Vinnie Weber said to me, Max, you're going to be driving for me next year for free.
28:11
You know, we don't have to bring any sponsorship or anything, which for me was like a dream come true.
28:16
That was probably received mid 1995, July, August or something like this.
28:22
So when we came to November, Genevieve called me up back again and said, Max, we had some changes here.
28:30
1996 was the year that Michael was going to Ferrari.
28:37
1995, when all this thing happened, Michael was just now two times world champion.
28:43
So he just explained to me that it didn't make any sense for him to keep on going to the Formula 3 team, having Michael to take care of.
28:50
So he sold this thing to another guy and he said, Max, this guy told me that he's very interested on you, but you have to bring some money.
29:00
You know, he cannot afford to have you without bringing anything.
29:03
So that was kind of hard work.
29:05
But anyway, I know I had some sponsorship back in the day, which was just enough to make this move to Germany and to drive to this guy.
29:14
So I went to Germany in February 1996, which was my first time living outside Brazil, my first time moving from my parents' place.
29:24
And so I got there.
29:26
Making a long story short, the very first race in Germany, I won in Hockenheim again, but I realized that the guy was just not a good person, very quick guy.
29:37
And so I ended up having to leave this team and going to another team.
29:42
So in the meantime, I lost a fair bit of money that didn't have that much.
29:47
So I lost some because I changed the teams.
29:50
I moved to Italy like a couple of months later because I drove for Prima.
29:56
You know Prima?
29:57
Magic.
29:57
Magic.
29:58
But back then Prima wasn't the same Prima as they as far as, you know, so successful and everything.
30:04
But it was a good team.
30:05
So I moved to Italy to drive for Prima, and Prima was doing the German F3 as well.
30:11
They used to do Italian F3 and German F3.
30:15
One thing I forgot to mention, too, the German F3 was a support category for DTM, which that year became ITC because it became an international touring car championship instead of a German one.
30:29
So we always used to be a support race for them.
30:32
So one time I was flying to Italy, to Germany to do a race.
30:35
And then next to me, set up a guy that I never met before.
30:38
He introduced himself.
30:40
His name is Dario Rossi.
30:41
I never forgot his name.
30:42
He's an Italian guy and he used to work for Brain Bowl, which, you know, used to breaks.
30:48
So he was, you know, working for one of the Alfa Romeo teams.
30:53
And he started to talk to me on the flying and introduced himself.
30:57
Very nice guy.
30:57
He invited me to go over to the DTM in El Paddock, which I didn't do.
31:02
But anyway, that very same race, I won.
31:07
And I just won because it rained.
31:09
Because I was raised with a Fiat engine in Germany.
31:13
Which was underpowered, wasn't it?
31:15
Yeah, yeah.
31:15
Compared to anyone else.
31:16
Yeah, the Opel.
31:17
Yeah.
31:17
Opel engines were the good ones.
31:19
But because of the rain, I ended up winning the race.
31:22
So I won the race, I think the second one truly, I think finished second.
31:27
And Nick Heidfeld used to race in that same year as well.
31:30
So anyway, when I was at the airport in Germany to fly by to Italy, again, I bumped into this guy and he congratulated me and everything.
31:39
And then he told me, Max, do you know that, I think November, on that year, we're gonna have a DTM race in Brazil.
31:48
And I said, yeah, I heard about it.
31:50
And he said, Mercedes is going to have Emerson 50 Poundy on the car.
31:56
OPPO is going to have Tony Cana in the car and Alfa Romeo, they don't have a driver yet.
32:02
And then, I told him as a joke, I said, listen, you can tell to the Alfa Romeo people that I can drive for them if they want to.
32:10
And I don't even need a hotel because I live just beside the racetrack.
32:13
I can walk to the racetrack.
32:16
I was joking because I was in F3 and they were, you know, hiring and invited these big ones to do this race in Brazil.
32:23
So anyway, when I was just about to get into the plane, this guy introduced me to the boss of Alfa Romeo Motorsport.
32:31
And this guy said, listen, Max, give me a call.
32:33
He gave me a business card and asked me to call him.
32:37
And I didn't feel like calling the guy because I didn't have anything to say.
32:40
And for me, he would never put me in a GTM car to race in Brazil.
32:45
But a couple of days later, I thought to myself, okay, I'm gonna give him a call because it's kind of rude if I don't do it.
32:51
So I called this guy and he asked me to go to one of the race teams, which was a satellite team for Alpha Romeo.
33:00
And I went there and two days later, I was at Mugello to do a test in DTM.
33:07
And Rusty, that was probably the day that I felt most scared in a race car in my life.
33:13
Really?
33:13
Because, yeah, I never had driven a touring car before.
33:17
I never had been to Mugello before, which is one of the toughest racetracks around the world.
33:23
And there was, every team was there.
33:25
And so many big names that were just enough for him, like Nanini, Larini, Leto, Schneider, and so many other big names.
33:33
And me.
33:34
I was like a fish out of the water when I got there.
33:37
And there were two days test.
33:40
The first day, I don't know what happened, but the car was about to drive.
33:45
had a problem.
33:46
So I just did about five laps at the end of the day.
33:49
And those five laps were, I was so scared because the car was so different from a Formula 3 car.
33:56
It had four wheel drive, ABS, traction control, active suspension, paddle shift, and so many things I never had any car attack before.
34:07
So I did those five laps.
34:09
came back to the pits and went back to the hotel, rusty.
34:13
And that night, I don't think I slept two hours because I was so excited.
34:17
I was so scared or so nervous.
34:20
Next day I went to the track, like I didn't want to be there.
34:24
It was like, you know, shaking and then
34:27
one thing happened which changed my career from that day.
34:31
I was sitting in the garage, and then there was another drive from one of the official alpha male teams, which was Christian Donner.
34:39
You know Christian Donner?
34:40
Yes, sure do.
34:41
Yes, yeah.
34:42
He just walked into me, I don't know why he did that, and he was probably about 40 in his 40s when that happened.
34:50
And introduced himself, hey Max and Christian, how are you doing?
34:53
And when he asked me that, I said, Christian, I'm not doing too good.
34:57
You know, I did a few laps yesterday.
34:58
I was shitting myself in this car and I didn't like it.
35:02
And then he came to me, Max, don't worry.
35:05
Now, the first time I drove in this car, I had the same feelings.
35:08
It's normal.
35:09
Just calm down and do it.
35:10
No, relax.
35:11
And it's going to happen.
35:13
And, Rusty, within two minutes that this whole conversation took, he calmed me down so much.
35:20
I sat in the car after talking to him.
35:23
a lot more relaxed.
35:25
And I did, you know, okay.
35:26
And then after the test, because I went there to see if they were going to hire me to do this race or not.
35:32
So I did the test.
35:35
I did the race in Brazil.
35:36
I almost won this race in Brazil.
35:38
I finished second because of the rain as well.
35:40
I led most of the race because of the rain.
35:43
And that, you know, opened the doors to different opportunities in Europe.
35:48
You know, more sponsors that I had to,
35:51
to put together, to keep on going, to keep on going with my career because of the race, because of Christian, you know, because of these opportunities.
35:58
So for me, when people ask me which was the most important race of my life, was that DTM race in Brazil, which I'm going to send you the link.
36:08
And he's going to get Alessandro Nanini.
36:12
He's going to go, Max Wilson.
36:15
Max Wilson is the leader.
36:16
Look at Larini, he's also scaling the race.
36:19
He's going to win another position.
36:21
That is such a good story.
36:24
And the thing that I love about that, Max, is it's a moment in time that all of the preparation in the world couldn't have helped in some ways.
36:34
It was a bit of a sliding doors moment.
36:35
You know, Christian Danner coming in to talk to you, offering you that piece of advice.
36:40
And those cars at that time for our audience, I mean, that was almost a zenith moment for those cars.
36:48
They were unbelievable, weren't they, to drive?
36:50
They were.
36:51
I think, you know, I'm talking about nearly 30 years ago, and I think even nowadays, the cars are not as good as back in the day.
36:59
For instance, in Interlagos, those cars, almost 30 years ago, the last times were, are still even faster than GT3 cars today.
37:09
You know, GT3 cars that race on, they race in this DTM nowadays.
37:16
So that shows how those cars were, you know, so special and so good fun to drive.
37:22
At the same time, so expensive to rent as well.
37:25
That's why they had to change it.
37:26
But it was awesome.
37:27
It was a great opportunity for me.
37:29
Can we come to the fact that it's obviously helped to open a few more doors, maybe get the Max Wilson name a little more widely known in Europe and so on?
37:37
Am I right in saying that there may have been an opportunity with Porsche and Le Mans in that amazing GT1 car in 1997?
37:46
Tell me a bit about that story.
37:47
I don't know that it happened the way that your career panned out, but did you get to drive that car and have some conversations with them and so on?
37:56
Actually, after that year, you know, I ended up going to F3000, which is now equivalent to F2 today, which was 1997.
38:06
And in 1997, a couple of things happened to me.
38:10
First off, I had the opportunity to do, to be like part of a shootout, to be a Williams test driver, and I also had the opportunity
38:19
to become a Porsche factory driver in GT1.
38:23
And there was a manager, a lady actually, her name is Kay Wilson, sort of my last name by coincidence.
38:31
And she's a lady from England.
38:34
She used to work in one of the Porsche teams for many years, a team manager.
38:38
And I met her, you know, in England when I lived there.
38:42
One time she came to me and asked me if I was interested to become a Porsche factory driver for G21, which was a great opportunity.
38:52
But at the same time, I wanted F1.
38:56
So I thanked her and everything, but I said, Lisa, I have this goal in my mind, and I want to keep on working on this.
39:05
I appreciate the offer, but maybe later in the future.
39:08
In the end of that year, 1997, even before I realized that I was going to have an opportunity, because that happened early in 1997, I ended up being part of this shootout for William's Test Drivers, which they invited for drivers.
39:26
Myself, Juan Pablo Montoya, Nicholas Minassian, and another guy called Soyu Ayari.
39:34
Montoya and myself and Ayari, we were doing F3000.
39:39
And Minassian was doing F3, the British F3, which was very strong back then.
39:46
And the team he was driving for had Renault engines.
39:50
And back in the day Williams were also running Renault engines.
39:54
So we all been part of this, you know, shootout.
39:57
They were going to pick two drivers out of this four.
40:01
So they had they did a lot of different testing with those and now
40:05
physical and things like this.
40:07
Also, we drove the car, which was the best part of the program.
40:11
And I had this opportunity.
40:14
I made the most I could, you know, to try to get the job, you know.
40:18
And luckily enough, they picked myself and Montoya.
40:22
So that was awesome.
40:24
Yeah.
40:24
Take us there.
40:25
Where was the track when you got in a Formula One car for the first time?
40:28
And what feeling did that leave you with?
40:31
I mean, here's this kid from Brazil who didn't have a heap of money, who rolled the dice and went to Europe and found a way, made a way, and you're getting to drive a Formula One car.
40:45
Actually, before they got to us on the racetrack, they took us to like a physical gym back in Austria because all the fitness center for real was in Austria.
40:55
And that's where everything started.
40:57
So we were there for a couple of days and I thought to myself, all these deep hours that I put in my life have been good for something.
41:06
Something.
41:08
And I remember, I wasn't like to try to show up or anything, but I remember there was a couple of things that happened that today I remembered, which was funny.
41:17
And then there was one time the guy said, okay, you're going to have 30 seconds and I'm going to see how much pushups can you do?
41:25
And I asked him with two hands or one hand.
41:32
And then there was a different exercise that they were pulling for your back.
41:40
There was a machine, you know, and they were pulling like, you know, half of the weights of the machine and everybody had to do 20.
41:47
And when I sat on the machine, back then they used to put a lot of weights on the train, which is not good, but back in the day, I didn't know that.
41:54
So I put full weights and I took the whole thing down.
41:58
And then I started to scratch my nose and my head.
42:05
So anyway, they were kind of impressed with the fitness part of it.
42:08
And then there was...
42:10
another test with a psychologist.
42:14
They gave us like three eggs and she told us, okay, can you do this?
42:18
And all the, how do you call it?
42:21
Juggling.
42:21
Juggling.
42:22
Yeah.
42:23
And I couldn't do it with anything.
42:25
I couldn't do it with one.
42:26
And I said, listen, I cannot do it.
42:28
I'm gonna let them troll.
42:30
And she said, well, do whatever you want.
42:33
So I put them in a corner.
42:35
The other guys couldn't do it, but they all dropped the gags and broke everything.
42:38
So there were different things,
42:40
Back in the car, it was funny because out of the four of us, I was the first one, for whatever reason, to drive the car.
42:47
So I sat in the car, Rusty, and...
42:51
starting off from moving comes in came to my mind because I was sitting in the car, which actually was the current champion because that was 1997, the Rothmans car, the one that won Villeneuve.
43:06
At the same time, you know, it had the Ayrton Senna colors, and he drove for Williams.
43:12
Rothman colors are very similar.
43:15
And, and Rusty, now I'm talking about 1997, after 1994,
43:21
Three years prior to that, I was racing in Brazil, but I also had my go-kart team in Brazil.
43:27
And I was like, man, two years ago, I was at the go-kart trail.
43:31
Now I'm sitting on S1.
43:33
I'm talking to Frank Williams, to Patrick Henn.
43:35
That was really overwhelming to me.
43:37
That actually wasn't good for me.
43:39
I got to, you know, so many things in that...
43:43
got me to emotion, which isn't good when you're driving a problem on a car or anything.
43:47
A bit overwhelming or something, Max, do you feel?
43:49
Too overwhelming, I would say.
43:51
Yeah.
43:51
Okay.
43:52
But anyway, I started the car and despite all that, you know, emotions, everything, I did it right and they picked myself and my toy.
44:01
But when they first started the engine and you pulled first gear and pulled out of the garage and then you realize, okay, now I'm doing it.
44:09
Now I'm going to drive this thing.
44:11
You know, it's like- What track are you at?
44:12
What track were you at?
44:13
Barcelona.
44:14
Barcelona, okay.
44:16
Which, you know, is the hardest track for Mac, you know.
44:20
Yes.
44:20
That was difficult because I knew that was going to be hard, but I didn't know that was going to be that hard, you know.
44:28
But actually, after a few laps, you cannot hold your hand anymore.
44:32
Really?
44:32
Because it's too hard, especially Barcelona, which we have long right-hand corners, very fast, three, four corners on the same side, very nearby each other.
44:43
So it was hard, but there was a point where I was turning to the right in the last corner, which was like 220, 230 kilometers an hour.
44:52
And my head was falling to the left.
44:55
And my eyes, you know, I was trying to watch the corner with my eyes.
44:59
I was so scared because I couldn't see the corner very clearly, but at the same time as a man, I cannot stop.
45:06
Cannot stop because I'm nearly sore because I cannot see the corner or anything.
45:10
So I kept driving.
45:11
And luckily, I just made the cut.
45:14
So that's good.
45:16
The sound of those cars back then, Max, the power and so on.
45:21
You're a focused racing driver at this point.
45:25
But did you have a little moment where you went?
45:27
I mean, this is...
45:28
Amazing.
45:29
You're basically at the pinnacle, aren't you?
45:31
You know, in terms of cars.
45:33
I did.
45:34
There were, you know, two things that impressed me the most.
45:37
First was the RPM.
45:40
Back in the day, they were V10 engines.
45:43
So they used to rev, I don't know, maybe 17,000, 18,000.
45:46
So I was, you know, listening to the revs to come up.
45:50
But the lights on the dash were not coming up because I thought we were like near to the rev limiter.
45:56
But there were still 5000 RPMs to go high.
45:58
To go.
45:59
To go.
46:00
Because they rev so high, you know, it was so impressive at first.
46:05
The second thing that was so impressive was the brakes.
46:08
You know, the brakes were like, now I couldn't believe how much G-force brakes, you know, generate when you brake.
46:16
And also on the braking, when I talked about the neck, every time I was going to brake at the end of the straight, after, I don't know, maybe 40, 50 laps, which my neck was already dead.
46:27
Rusty, you know when you're, you know that you're gonna feel pain and you see the pain coming just when you're good, just about to hit the brakes,
46:35
But you have to do it.
46:36
And I was like, my tears were coming out of my eyes.
46:39
But I thought to myself, can I stop it?
46:43
So that was also impressive.
46:45
The power itself, it was impressive, but not that much because I was racing F3000, which didn't have as much horsepower as an F1 car.
46:56
But the F1 power delivery was so smooth because it's a lot more efficient that the power itself wasn't that scary.
47:05
Okay.
47:05
But the thing that was the most impressive things was the car handling in the high-speed corners.
47:13
Because in the slow speed corner, you know, the F1 and the F3000 or F2 of these days, we're not that different because when you're doing, I don't know, 100 kilometers an hour, the downforce is not that different.
47:25
But right in the fast corners, I don't know, let's say that the last corner in Barcelona is about 250, you know, top driver back then.
47:33
You're doing a 220, 230.
47:34
That feels very fast, but it's still a long way to go.
47:38
The limit of the car is so much higher than you're expecting.
47:42
And I'm also talking real sick back in the day where YouTube wasn't even a word.
47:48
Internet wasn't even a word.
47:50
You know, simulators didn't exist.
47:52
So, you know, everything was first sight, you know, when you were driving the car.
47:57
Which in a way was better because you know, you really felt the real things right away, but that was such an amazing thing.
48:06
But at the same time, I did that gig for a couple of years with Williams.
48:11
The very first time was awesome.
48:12
The second was good too.
48:13
The third wasn't as great.
48:15
The fourth, because as a racing car driver, for me at least, I like competing.
48:20
I like racing, you know?
48:21
I like driving the cars.
48:22
I love cars and everything, but the thing that I like the most
48:26
It's a challenge of racist eating and try to do, you know, better than others.
48:31
And when you're testing, especially back in the day, when you used to test a lot, and most of the testing, you know, like, for example, I used to test oil.
48:41
So you...
48:42
put a lot of fuel in the car and do, I don't know, like a race distance by yourself on a racetrack.
48:49
That's so boring, you know, that's nothing, you know.
48:52
So that was good at first, but very fast I realized that a test driver for me was one, I think, for a couple of years at max.
49:02
And then if I didn't become an F1 driver, I was going to look for something else.
49:06
That's a fascinating insight, Max.
49:08
Thank you.
49:08
I love that.
49:09
And I love the competitive side of you, which I sense you still have to this day.
49:16
Just quickly before we go to Champ Car and then Supercars, obviously, because fans will want to know a lot about the Supercars chapter.
49:22
Just quickly, Patrick Head, the late Sir Frank Williams.
49:26
I mean, that's a bit surreal to get to spend a bit of time with those guys.
49:30
I mean, legends of Formula One and motor racing.
49:33
That was amazing.
49:34
I mean, the very first time I met Frank Williams, I remember going to his office at the Williams factory and I was, you know, chatting with him by the first time.
49:45
You know what I did?
49:46
Like after three, four minutes, I raised my hands and said, can I go to the bathroom?
49:51
because I was about to cry.
49:53
Really?
49:54
I was like, you know, I was talking to that guy that I just saw on TV, you know, looking after Pique, Santa, Manso, and Prost, and all those guys, and he was talking to me.
50:04
And Rusty, as I said before, a couple of years earlier, I was a go-kart track, you know, with my team.
50:11
So that thing for me was, everything was so overwhelming.
50:14
So, but anyway, frankly, it was,
50:18
I was very emotional to talk to him, but I got to tell you, he was a hard guy to deal with.
50:23
Really?
50:23
You know, I didn't spend much time to him, but he was hard, he was difficult to deal with.
50:28
On the other hand, Patrick heard that at first I was scared to look at him because he looks very grumpy and not very friendly.
50:37
But at least to me, he was such a nice guy, so sweet.
50:42
And Patrick, funny enough, back when I met him, he was married to a Brazilian girl, which used to be Ayrton Senna PR.
50:52
She became my PR afterwards.
50:55
Wow.
50:55
So I knew her, so I spent a bit of time with Patrick back in England and also back here in Brazil because they used to come to Brazil for holidays.
51:04
And they used to go to a beach near Sao Paulo.
51:06
So I spent two moments with them over here in Brazil, back in England as well.
51:12
So Patrick was such a nice guy with so much knowledge and so much passion about what he did.
51:20
And I can only say that I'm very thankful and very grateful to have the opportunity to spend a bit of time in those legends of the sport.
51:30
I remember, Patrick, a funny thing that happened once...
51:34
I went to Goodwood to drive a F1 car and I drove it.
51:38
Now the current F1, that was 1998, the windshield F1 with the windshield, the Australian cigarettes as rock ones.
51:47
And I also drove a six wheeler Williams with four wheels on the back.
51:51
I don't know if she had seen this car before.
51:53
Yeah, I know.
51:54
Which actually the car I drove had Alan Jones name in the car.
51:58
Yeah.
51:59
That car actually never raced, but had four wheels on the back and two on the front.
52:03
I was there, you know, and it started to rain at Goodwood, as always happens in England.
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And the car only had sneak tires on and the tires from, I don't know, from the 80s in the car.
52:14
And I was like, man.
52:15
And the guy from Williams, he came to me and said, Max, whatever you do, don't crash this car.
52:21
If you crash this car, Patrick's going to kill you.
52:24
So go slowly, be careful because that's his love.
52:28
This car is his love.
52:29
I said, man, that's going to be hard.
52:31
And so anyway, I was just about to jump in the car.
52:34
And then Patrick just turned up and said, Max, go as fast as you can.
52:38
Don't worry about the rainbow, worry about anything.
52:40
I was like, man.
52:43
Probably my top speed that day was about 12 kilometers an hour.
52:47
And that was fast enough for me.
52:58
That's the end of part one of my feature ep with Max Wilson.
53:00
He is so good, isn't he?
53:02
So passionate.
53:03
Some good takeaways for young racers in this one too around work ethic.
53:08
Get up earlier.
53:09
Work harder than the other competitors.
53:11
Enjoy the journey and see where racing takes you.
53:14
Most importantly, keep working on ways to open doors.
53:19
We haven't even reached the supercars chapter yet.
53:21
I know many of you are keen to hear some reflections there.
53:25
That is coming up in part two, which is in the Rusty's Garage Library and good to go for you right now.
53:31
How a shy racer meeting John Briggs and Tony Longhurst for the first time made him realise that a move to Australia was the right one.
53:40
feeling like the Aussies and Kiwis might have been trying to intimidate him in season one, and a funny story about squaring the ledger involving Garth Tander.
53:51
Plus a fear of helicopters and how a last-minute trip up the New South Wales coastline left Max thinking it might be his last.
54:00
Plus winning the Brazilian stock car title and a whole lot more in part two of Rusty's Garage with Max Wilson.