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Sports Betting Scandals · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites, the podcast, part of the Volume
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Podcast Network. I I'm Chad Moman of the Action Network.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: This week, at last, we are back together again. Let's
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: welcome in my co host Michael Bandon. Michael Padre might
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: be a f professional better sign in Hunter, And oh
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: so I am in, Chad.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: How are we doing?
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Listen? I'm so excited to see your face. Even though
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: we chatted a little bit while you were in England
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: and I was in Chicago for my father's eightieth birthday,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: there's so many stories to tell about that. I missed you, buddy.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I miss seeing your face, hearing your voice. How are
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: you good?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: No, it's good, good little break, you know, nice hearing
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: from fans that missed me as well. It's nice to
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: know I'm loved and people still hate Chad, so that's
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: always a good feeling.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: But nobody, I got no messages. Did anyone miss me?
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, they missed the show. And just like
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: everyone else, a lot going on, and uh, you know,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: excited for football obviously, but anytime me and Chack can
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: get a little break, I think we're excited for it
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: because obviously we spent a lot of time together so
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: it's nice to miss you as well, Chad. So it
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: was a welcome break and yeah, I sent you pictures. Obviously,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: went to England Sea family got to go up to
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Scotland with my mom and dad, which was a really
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: cool experience. My thought came over to Edinburgh and yeah,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not the biggest golf fan or whiskey fan, but
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: it's intoxicating. Once you get to Scotland you experience it
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: like going to Saint Andrew's. You can walk the course
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: on Sundays, it's open to the public, a pretty surreal,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: pretty surreal you can just walk around on eighteen the
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: bagpipes are playing in the background. It was just a
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: really cool, really cool, what you know, thing to see.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: And yeah, Scotland. The joke if you're from England is
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: there's not much up there, and I guess that's true
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: to British people, but to someone from America it's it's
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: really beautiful and unique. Play Scotland. So if I had
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: the money and the time, I would retire and just
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: drink my way and play golf across Scotland. It's that
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: it's that type of country. So yeah, I really enjoyed
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: my time away time away in Scotland.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not a huge drinker, as you know, but when
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I do drink, there are two things I'll drink. One
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a Repisodo tequila. Two lag of Ulin Scotch, the pediest,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: most Scottish Scotch I can get. That's what I want.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: It's fantastic.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and again it's it's all over right. I I
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: try to get at when I first got think that
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I tried to get out when I first landed, and
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I literally burned myself off for the rest of the trip.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Like I got so hungover I didn't want to drink
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: again for about two three days. And I think that's
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: how it goes, especially you get old. I mean, I
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: know I'm old, but in my mind, you know, everyone
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: still feels young at heart. Hangovers hit like a motherfucker
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: in your mid thirties. It really is. You drink hard
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: liquor like that, it really hits. But yeah, there was
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: a couple of times, like we went to a pub
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: that was from the seventeen hundreds, like it was built
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: before America was America, and like you just to them,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: that's that's that's pretty old, but not that old. So
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: when you're in history like that where it's just funny
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: coming from America. Yeah, I'm right there with you, brother.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: It's it's just a vibe there, like if you're going
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: to drink anything, right, Scotch, whiskey, bourban, all of it.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: They're drinking it and I really enjoyed it.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: You just say, hungover and feeling it. So, you know,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I live in a house with an eighteen year old
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: who graduated high school a month ago and has an
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: incredible group of friends and a great girlfriend and is
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: going to college in the fall. So and is like
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: working a fun summer job running the fryer at the
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: local pool club with all of his buddies, and every
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: day is just comedy and fun. So the other night,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: my wife and I one forty five in the morning,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: hear what sounds like somebody killing an animal in my
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: son's bathroom.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Oh no, he had one of those nice justn.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: And and my my wife. This is how we handle
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: it differently. My wife is worried, she's up. She when
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: he is in bed trying to sleep, She's leaving him
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: gatorade by his bed. I'm not even moving, I'm not
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: even thinking. I'm like, you do it once, you do it. Twice.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: You learn your limits. It's good practice for college. You
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: figure out what you can do. Like, he's not the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: first person that this has happened to. He's not the
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: last person this will happen to. I see him the
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: next day and he's just like, it's just the spins.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: It's just the spins when you're lying there. I felt
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: so bad for him, but I was proud of him
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: because he got up and he went to the club,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: the pool club, and he worked a fryer, and he
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: was back there in that heat, and it is it
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: is no freaking joke. And by the way, he did this.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: On the night of July fourth, I had been got
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: up at six am, took the train from Hertford to
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: the city and then the subway from Penn Station to
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Coney Island, the last stop on the subway line. Because
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I went to the Nathan's hot Dog Eating Contest. Because
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm writing this book and one of the
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: people that I'm profiling in the book, who was a
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: huge professional better one of the best NFL prop betters
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: in the world, he also loves to bet the hot
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Dog contest. So I wanted to be with him when
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: he's betting the hot dog contest, and so I went
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: out there. I got there at you know, ten thirty
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: in the morning, just as Mickey Suda was about to start.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: She won her competition, but she went way under created
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit of havoc, a little bit of chaos
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: for the way my guy was betting and how he
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: was thinking what that portended for the male competition. But dude,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: it was a freaking It was a freaking blast to
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: go to that thing and be with someone who's really
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: thinking about it from betting opportunity. And what was interesting
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: is to me, like we all laugh about it and
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: you say the Nathan's hot dog eating contest, and it
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: just makes you smile. But he looked it is such
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: a pure handicapping exercise. It's not something you can model.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: It's only something that you can figure out through research, instinct,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: study history, trying to find interesting patterns. Like he looked
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: at it more as a pure handicapping experience as anything else.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: To me, I love that. I just thought that was
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: a total blast to experience that and have that unique
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: of a perspective.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, incredibly sharp contest. Obviously everyone knows the hot dog
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: buns a big thing we all bet on hot dog
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: everything like that. I mean me and you talk a
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: little bit about how much they care about the buns
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: of the hot dogs. What was it? Chestnuts seventy one
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and a half, open at sixty nine and a half,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: landed on seventy and a half. So yeah, it's one
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: of the more professional focused things in the summer, and
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: obviously fine edges. But I've had obviously, you know, that's
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: all my bucklest I want to go to it. I
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: just had it insane forty eight hours of flying red
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: eye to Vegas, flew back last night, just meeting with people,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: just so much going on. When I got back from England,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: it was like all the shit really hit the fan.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: I got back basically July first, and I was playing
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: on going out there. I think Chad I didn't really
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: talked about the show a little bit, but I was
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: gonna enter the World Chairs of Poker.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Have we talked about this, Yeah, And.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: It was just gonna be if I was running hot
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: and i'd been playing really good. I I really started
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: training hard in March, and I really was running hot
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: in probably till the end of April early May, and
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: then I went very cold. I just was not not
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: reading well before I went away, and I was hoping
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: when I came back, maybe if I was on the
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: right mind, I was going to go there, play small
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: a couple of tournaments, and then if I did well,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna stay and do a couple of
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: shows from there and try to obviously make the money.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: But I got there, there's just too much going on
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: me Chad, I obviously going about to dive into it.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, just a world win. I'm hoping next
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: year I can do what She's a poker, So I know.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: I talked a couple of fans who went out there.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: I mean obviously met up with a couple of people
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: when I was there. Always always down to get a
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: drink with different fans that reach out. But yeah, when
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I was there watching the World Series, a ton of
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: regret that I didn't enter it, just because how much
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Funnel looks. But like we're about to dive into there's
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: just so much shit going on in the sports betting on.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: What I just really was my mind is the mind's
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: not right to be doing that kind of stuff. And
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: as we're going to dive into there's just too much
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: going on for me to focus on that. So, yeah,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: it's gonna be back in Jersey. I'm happy back from vacation.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping to chill just for a week or two
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: and catch my breath there. Chet.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Well, look, I would argue that while you were away
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: included some of the most consequential and I think impactful
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: moments in the betting space since legalization in twenty eighteen.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: If you are a professional better, and avid better, recreational better,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: even a casual better, all of this impacts you because
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: there has just been a cascade of laws and taxes
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and changes to the industry that are independent of each other,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: but when you add them all up, impact literally everybody.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: If you are betting five dollars a game in New
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Jersey or Illinois, all of a sudden, you are going
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: to find that operators like DraftKings and FanDuel are going
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: to be charging you a fifty cent per bet fee
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: because now the taxes for those operators have been raised
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: in certain states. There have been changes in federal law,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: included in the Big Beautiful Bill, which you are a follower,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: if you are a follower of gambling Twitter, you have
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: seen this all over where for years and Simon will
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: talk about this. You could deduct one hundred percent of
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: your losses from your taxes. So if you made one
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars betting, and you lost ninety thousand dollars betting,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: you could deduct that ninety thousand dollars, and what you
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: ultimately made and pay taxes on was ten thousand dollars.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Included in the Big Beautiful Bill now is a provision
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: which is legal now. It is a law that you
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: can only deduct ninety percent of your losses, so you
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: might end up paying on what's essentially phantom income. That
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: has been a huge conversation. That could be millions and
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: millions of dollars for gamblers. The provision is estimated to
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: earn the to create one point one billion dollars in
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: revenue for the government over the next several years. There
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: have been two betting scandals involving players that we are
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: going to talk about, both in the NBA and in
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Major League Baseball, and sort of the social media reaction
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: to those has been fascinating because we are in a
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: time where anybody can be Sherlock Holmes if they have
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: a TikTok account and access to video and a little
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: bit of information and a lot of speculation. There are
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: upstarts in the form of prediction markets like Kelshi, Polymarket
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: sport trade now posing real threats to the current status
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: of sports betting and provide new options in sports betters,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: all of which becomes more relevant with the Big Beautiful
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Bill and increase in taxes and the opportunities for sports
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: betters to play in these markets where it might be
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: a little bit more equitable and generally simon, I think
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: there's just growing hostility in the sports betting space. It's
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: from operators towards professional betters who are consistently getting banned
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: because operators don't want to take their money. It's regulators
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: towards the operators who are trying to find more way
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: to raise money, so they're increasing taxes. It's the federal
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: government towards betters with this big beautiful bill. It's society
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: against the idea of sports betting. Bob Costas was on
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Meet the Press this past weekend talking about the ills
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: of sports betting wild wild times. We're going to talk
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: about all of that from his point of view as
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: a pro mine, as a journalist who is reporting on
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of this and it's all in my head
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: right now. For this book I am writing. The prediction
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: marks especially are fascinating to me, and to me that
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: deserves a much longer, broader conversation, deeper conversation. So on
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Thursday show, Simon and I will speak with Chris Gerlocker,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: who's a reporter for Prediction News who has been covering
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: prediction markets for a long time. He's going to join
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and I would say that since I've been reporting this book,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the influences of these businesses has become an increasingly important
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: narrative in our space, and their sort of disruption that
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: is happening and how these things are being framed is
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: so big that it is akin to the way people
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: talked about Uber, the way people talked about social media. Calshi,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: one of the prediction markets, the one that is legal
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: in the United States, just raised a hundred and eighty
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: five million dollars is now value at two billion dollars. Polymarket,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: another one which is not legal in the United States,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: raised another amount of money. It's worth a billion dollars
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: in valuation. So there's a lot to discuss in this space.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: We'll unpack all of that with Chris on Thursday, Simon.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's fucking Midsummer and there's not supposed to
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: be anything going on, and all of this is going on.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Here's the first thing I want to ask you about.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: If you don't mind, unless you unless you feel passionate
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: about one of the topics, I want to ask you
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: about one of the topics.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's through all of them, all right.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: So the first one is the betting scandal, right because
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: with the players, we're talking about Malik Leap Beasley for
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: the Detroit Pistons and being under investigation for betting, and
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: then Luis Ortiz, the Guardian's pitcher, who was under investigation
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: for gambling. This one was broken by Ken Rosenthal at
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the Athletic and then David Purdam and Jeff Passon at
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: ESPN advanced it because they identified that there were two
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: pitches that or Tees had thrown that were specifically under investigation,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: and with Beasley, it's prop bets that were specifically under investigation.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And to me, it was fascinating to go on social
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: media and see the video evidence of the two pitches
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: that or Teas was under investigation for. What are your
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: thoughts generally on these kinds of scandals and how they
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: are impacting the space.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have a lot of opinions on it,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Chad disturb from the top. It's two different sports, which
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: is a big deal obviously because that happened around the
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: same exact time ortiz One. I don't think he can
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: blame on the interpreter. This is very, very noticeable he
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: did something in a game because I think it's what
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: they're breaking down the video. If I'm not wrong, Chad
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: is it's the first pitch right, yep, and very easy
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: for these books to track. So I say it all
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: the time. People don't understand how how much there was
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: in scandal, players tanking games, throwing boxing matches, all this
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: stuff from the very beginning of sports, when betting came around.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: This stuff has been around forever. That is why to
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: us people in the know, especially Chad, it's so great
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: that the legalization of sports have happened because of these
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: exact things. They can catch these people now that they
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: try to taint our games that we love and we again,
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: it would ruin so much to know that these things
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: were happening, especially at the highest level. Now, lucky for us,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: these things keep happening to players that again they're not
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: nobody's I mean again the o tiny thing that's for
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: another day. But it's like these other people they're not
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: it's not like they're the highest of highs, but they
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: are names in these athletes in these sports that are
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: pretty well known. Like Beasley was about apparently was about
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: to get paid for now. Yeah, now I was looking
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: at jail time possibly, So it's a really big deal.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: So is someone that this is my life, this is
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: what I work in. I love it because it's like
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: keep it clean, keep it all above board. And at
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, the more you learn about
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: the stuff, it all comes back to debt and owing people.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: And that's the scary part is these people get in
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: trouble for different things. Maybe they have their own gambling
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: addictions themselves, and they get to these holes. So yeah,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: just at the end of the day, it's all sad
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: because it's like lives ruined, millions and million dollars cost
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: to them family. Their families are ruined in certain ways
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: as well, so brutal. But the things we have in
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: line it makes it today much better product betting on
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: sports than it was even say ten years ago. It's
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: so much cleaner protected than it used to be. I'm
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: such a fan that they keep catching these people. They're
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: with AI or whatever it is, these algorithms, they keep
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: catching these people with just a really big fan of
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: it and props to the people you do the work.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: It's like it's not only as a real journalism, it's
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: real work by these sports books catching these people doing
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: this stuff.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what alerted people to anything related
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: to Beasley and what that investigation.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: It's always going to be the money coming in on
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: the bets chat.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Right, But I don't mean like how they tracked it
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: right with ortes. There's an organization called IC three sixty
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and they do global monitoring of markets and are in
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: regular communication with the operators and with the leagues to
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: police what's happening. And I see three sixty is the
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: one that recognized what was going on with orties and
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: then alerted the authorities that needed to be known, that
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: needed to know about what was happening. So that's an
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: important part of this that has been going on for
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: thirty years right, and thirty years ago the operators were
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: regularly talking to the leagues themselves. That's how scandals like
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: the Arizona State College basketball betting scandal came to be known,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: is the operators recognized strange betting patterns and were able
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: to shut down the betting and then communicate to the
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: n c DOUBLEA about what was happening. Now there are
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: global organizations that monitor this as it's become bigger, and
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: as the leagues themselves have just so much more at
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: stake and at risk because of the legalization of sports
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: betting and because of the stances they've taken. I had
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: a conversation with someone I'm talking to at the NFL
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: for this book, and we were talking about sort of
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: the threat to integrity of the game, and I made
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the point that, as you just said, Simon, there have
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: been betting scandals as long as there have been sports.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Literally Major League Baseball, the National League was founded in
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: eighteen seventy six. In eighteen seventy seven, there was a
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: betting scandal, and Matt Mitchell and I talked about this
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: on sort of the Great Moments in Gambling podcast. The
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Steelers, the New York Giants, the Cleveland Browns, the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: now Arizona Cardinals, the New York Yankees, all founded by
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: professional betters or professional bookmakers, because those are the people
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: who were willing to take the biggest risks and had
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: cash at hand and liked sports. When all these things
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: were becoming a big deal, every sports betting scandal has
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: been followed by increased viewership, increased rights, increased audience, increased interest.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I think the sports betting scandals are terrible. I don't
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: think they're going to be the death knell for sports. Really.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: What worries me for sports and sports betting is violence
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: against the players, because I do think that's going to
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: be something that we saw with Lance mccullors, we saw
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Tyrese Haliburton talked about it last year. When players have
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: to start getting security, when fans can't control themselves, when
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: there is a sort of you forget who you are,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: where you are, or even worse, you didn't know to
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: begin with, and you are blaming the players for your losses,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: That to me is a really frightening development that seem
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: to be much less relevant or obvious before sports betting
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: became legal and before the number of people betting hit increased.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: That's fair, but I mean it's a that's always been around,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: right fanatic fan, I mean that's always been I mean
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: they what was that movie they made Back of the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Day now Alpatune, I forget who it was. He was
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: a crazy fan.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Oh I don't know it.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Oh no, you would love it. It's terrible, but it's a
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: good movie just about how crazy fans are. You literally
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: capture as a player pills them hostage. But yeah, it's
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: it's always been there, Chad, I agree with you. Like obviously,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: a guy yelling at a basketball player about losing his
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: ten dollars parlay because they didn't hit some shot. It's
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: it's it's a it's a bad part of it. But
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: like I told you from the get go, we're just
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: in the early days for it. So you're always gonna
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: have these people like Bob Costas or wherever coming out
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: and talking about how bad it is and the negative
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: stuff of sports betting. There's always bena be a couple
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: of bad eggs. It's just it's just the way it is.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: It's the same thing we talk about with alcohol and
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: cigarettes and things like that, where it's freedom of choice.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: We know it's not the best thing, but obviously if
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: people can keep their shit together, keep their cool, it's
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: a great thing for the general public to be able
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: to do to you know, enjoy life. And it's just
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: another thing part of it. But yeah, the going on
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: social media and telling people are gonna kill their families.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I'm happy they catch and prosecute these people, right, That's
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: that's another good thing that they're doing now, is these
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: assholes aren't just getting away with making these outlangers threats, Like,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: there are consequences to these certain words you say to people.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: So I'm with you. It's it's obviously the black stain
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: on what we do is these people that go either
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: way to like you know, say horrible things. Mean you
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: are part of it, Like, this is part of our job.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: We get the stuff people say to us. It's it's
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: insane where I just know me personally, no one would
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: ever say that to my face. So it is it
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: is a weird thing that we are involved in this
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: world we're in. But again, I love it. It's it's
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: all weird and unique in its own way. But I
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: wouldn't change it. Obviously there's things that would change to it,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: but overall, it's what the craziness is what makes it work, Chad,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: So I'm with you, though, it's it's when you hear
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: those stories, it's it's just horrible when you read that
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: stuff about these players, what they go through with those fans.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Think about you, Simon, people say mean things to you
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: and they like you. They don't even like me that stuff.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Think about what I get.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can only imagine.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: So I also found it really fascinating the way people
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: on TikTok, Instagram wherever were speculating about Malik Beasley. They
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: didn't even know what he was being investigated for, but
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: they were taking out of context clips and saying, look
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: at how obvious it is that he was fixing this game.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: To me, that felt totally irresponsible and tasteless. And that
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: to me, whereas the artis stuff you could find the
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: video evidence, that to me felt like the flip side
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: under belly sensational idiocy of what happens on social media
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: when you are connecting one plus one and getting three.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it is. Robert de Niro, the fan,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: That's what it was. I was trying to I coudn't
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: even look it up. I was like, what the hell
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: was the name of that movie? I coudn't even think
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: it was. The lead actor is Rob Deer a fan.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Game.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: You hear it, So it's tough push right an insane
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: fan and it's like we're talking about here, Chad.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: There's just Wesley Snipes.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So they're just they're gonna be out there.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: What can you do. It's it's part of what It's
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: part of the game. And the most shocking thing too,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: again I don't spend much time on social media, was
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: these poker players talking about well, we're about to talk
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: about this big beautiful bill, yes, and the hate and
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: disdain they would get from people, and it's like, it's
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: just bizarre. It is bizarre. It's a bizarre world we
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: live in. So yeah, we should definitely dive into that.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about it. So the Big Beautiful Bill
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: was passed, and in the moments before it was passed,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: say twenty four hours or so, you started seeing the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: news popping up via Twitter, largely about changes to how
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: professional betters could file their taxes. And it used to
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: be you could take one hundred percent of your losses
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: and deduct that from your wins that you filed for
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: simon you filed as a professional better and then all
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: of a sudden you're getting what basically your salary is
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: but because gambling is not necessarily the best thing for society,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: and because gamblers are not the most sympathetic group, this
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: was something that through the Finance Committee, had been studied
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: and then was added to the Senate's big beautiful bill,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: and when Congress was going through it, it got through,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: and it became a pretty big uproar, not just from
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: gambling Twitter, but then all of a sudden, the Washington
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Post did a story about it. ESPN did a story
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: about it, The New York Post did a story about it.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Axios did a story about it. It was fascinating to
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: me of the thousand page bill and all of the
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: provisions in this bill, including the fact that I believe
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: there were provisions that made it easier or more cost
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: effective to get a silencer. This is the one that
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: bubbled up and became sort of so interesting for people.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: From your point of view, Simon, I've basically laid it out.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: You can you can only deduct ninety percent of your losses.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Now explain from your point of view you how that
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: impacts professional betters. And I will say this was such
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: a cost to lab that already the representative from Las
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Vegas has proposed a bill to reverse this and is
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: already getting support. It needs bipartisan support. I think it
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: will get it. This doesn't go into effect until the
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty six, so my senses, over the
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: next eighteen months this might be repealed. But in the
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: immediate it's something you got to think about. Simon.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I could actually take ten to fifteen minutes
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: on us, but we don't have that much time. And
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I'll just say the quick version is it's over. It
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: just they've made it so that it's impossible to make
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: a living betting in America legally, so we'll die have
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: more time in doo, we have more time and to
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: break it more down. But as right now as it's.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: So hold on, I know Matt Mitchell is pushing us,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: but like this is a huge topic. I know, give it,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: give it a little back.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Here, I mean, just the basis of it. It's it's
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: just there's too many moving parts right now. We don't
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: know what's going to happen right Like what you just said,
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: it's it's impossible. It's impossible to make a living when
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I'm paying for ten percent of my losses. And we
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: even talked about new Jersey either, like what they're doing
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: in New Jersey. It's just we're being attacked and I
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: dripped with you. In America, they will do anything. Our
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: government will do anything in their power to tax anybody.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: But they're rich and this is just another one of
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: those things. Cause again, yes it's affecting professional betters. We
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: make a living finding ways around the rules, so this
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: is not going to affect us in the long term
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: and anyway other than it's fucking up my life and
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: maybe don't make me move to fucking England. I don't
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: want to move to England for six months, but that
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: might be well my life is because Canada is the
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: same way. Canada will tax you for being a professional better,
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: so you know, the only countries that are left, maybe
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I'll be in Supermuda for six months, like all the
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: options of the table. I've been meeting with people for
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: the last two days about it because it's such a
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: big deal. And yeah, it's it's blind siding because I
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: heard whispers, but I didn't think it was real because
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: it's so stupid and it went through. It's like these
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: guys just don't know what they're doing. So yeah, chat,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I just it's something we're going to spend a lot
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: of time home because it's it's one of the more
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: fascinating stories, like you said, since the legalization of sports
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: betting in this country, and it's a clear attack on
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: professional betters and people who make their living beating the casinos.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: So that's all I'm going to say at that part.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I do have a theory about this. I want to
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: leave a little bit of a cliffhanger. If Matt Mitchell
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: had hair on his head, he'd be pulling it out
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: right now because he wants us to to save some
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of this for part two of this very special podcast episode,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: which I will because I do have a theory and
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I want to bring it up with our guest, Chris Gerlocker,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: who's going to be joining us on Thursday show. So
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I want to leave a little bit of that meat
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: on the bone. So let's just say that we will
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: return with our next episode of The Favorites Thursday on
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: the Action Network YouTube page with special guest Chris Gerlocker.
• 31:11
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• 31:14
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• 31:18
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• 31:29
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