Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 563: Final Four memories, this weekend's games and IU basketball talk with Rick Bozich

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POTB 563: Final Four memories, this weekend's games and IU basketball talk with Rick Bozich · Podcast on the Brink

0:17
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the
0:20
Speaker 1: Brink Friday, April third. The Final Four just one day
0:24
Speaker 1: away Saturday, a night in Indianapolis at Lucas Oil Stadium.
0:29
Speaker 1: Obviously a lot of storylines that people around college basketball
0:33
Speaker 1: excited about, particularly in the Big Ten where you've got
0:35
Speaker 1: Illinois and Michigan with a chance to break the league's
0:38
Speaker 1: national title drought which has been since two thousand. Two
0:42
Speaker 1: thousand was also well, as I mentioned, the last time
0:45
Speaker 1: a Big Ten team won the title that was Michigan State,
0:48
Speaker 1: that was played in Indianapolis, Arizona one in ninety seven.
0:52
Speaker 1: That was another Final Four that was in indi So
0:56
Speaker 1: gonna be an interesting I think weekend two really good
0:59
Speaker 1: games to matchups that you look at the point spread,
1:01
Speaker 1: I think both are under two points at this point
1:04
Speaker 1: in time, so intriguing matchups. I think it's gonna be
1:07
Speaker 1: a lot of fun to watch. Joining us this week
1:09
Speaker 1: on a podcast on the break command that's covered We
1:12
Speaker 1: were talking before I hit record thirty four final fours.
1:17
Speaker 1: I've been to three, you've been to thirty four, so
1:21
Speaker 1: a bit of a discrepancy there. But my dad, Rick Bosich,
1:24
Speaker 1: a long time sports columnist in Louisville, now retired, wanted
1:30
Speaker 1: just to have you on to talk about the final four.
1:34
Speaker 1: Of course we'll probably get to some IU basketball topics
1:37
Speaker 1: later in the podcast. But what was it like for
1:40
Speaker 1: you to just cover that many final fours? Thirty four
1:45
Speaker 1: of them? And I know there was a point there
1:48
Speaker 1: where you basically didn't miss it at all, going back
1:51
Speaker 1: to I think the early eighties, there was a long
1:54
Speaker 1: streak where ye're there every year, and I remember it
1:57
Speaker 1: well as a kid because I remember, you know, every
2:00
Speaker 1: every year you'd be gone for those three weekends, usually
2:04
Speaker 1: to cover the local teams, whether it be Louisville, Kentucky
2:07
Speaker 1: or Indiana. You would you and whoever the other columnist
2:10
Speaker 1: that the paper would kind of divvy it up and
2:13
Speaker 1: go cover a game of one of the local teams.
2:18
Speaker 1: But then you would always even if the local team
2:20
Speaker 1: wasn't in there, you'd always follow through and go to
2:23
Speaker 1: the final four. What was what was it like just
2:25
Speaker 1: to have the opportunity to cover that many final fours?
2:27
Speaker 1: And maybe if you if you wouldn't mind giving maybe
2:31
Speaker 1: one or two that really stand out in your memory.
2:33
Speaker 1: I know that was that those are a lot of
2:36
Speaker 1: years to think about, but just curious for your thoughts
2:39
Speaker 1: big picture on what it was like being at the
2:41
Speaker 1: Final four all those years.
2:43
Speaker 2: I mean, it was fantastic. I have a front row
2:46
Speaker 2: seat to see so many great players, so many great teams,
2:52
Speaker 2: any great memories, so many great venues. Back in the sixties,
2:59
Speaker 2: the Final f where was played in Louisville a bunch
3:01
Speaker 2: of times. And the guy who was in charge of
3:06
Speaker 2: media stuff for the NCAA was Dave Cawin, who was
3:09
Speaker 2: a Kentuckian who knew that the Courier Journal was probably
3:13
Speaker 2: the number one paper in the country in terms of
3:15
Speaker 2: conferent college basketball. So even if we didn't have a
3:20
Speaker 2: team in the Final four, he generally made sure that
3:24
Speaker 2: the Curier Journal had great seats at tvel four. And
3:27
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know the tradition of it,
3:29
Speaker 2: but like the Louisville stat crew has done the Final
3:31
Speaker 2: Four for like the last forty seven years or fifty years.
3:35
Speaker 2: I don't even know how long the straight is, but
3:37
Speaker 2: it's really long. So here's always a big Louisville representation
3:40
Speaker 2: at the Final Four which continues to this day. And
3:45
Speaker 2: you know, part of my memories are just watching the
3:47
Speaker 2: way it's evolved from the event it was. I first
3:51
Speaker 2: one was eighty one, which was when Indiana beat Carolina
3:53
Speaker 2: with Isiah Thomas, Ray Talbert, Landed Turner, Randy Whitman ka
3:58
Speaker 2: Ketcher on that team, and that was in the Spectrum
4:02
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia, which was the same you know, where Indiana
4:05
Speaker 2: had won seventy six and then try It might be long,
4:09
Speaker 2: but the first one I think I covered, well, there
4:11
Speaker 2: was eighty five. Eighty four was in the Kingdome in Seattle,
4:16
Speaker 2: but then eighty five it went to Rep. Eighty six
4:19
Speaker 2: it was the Reunion and Arena. I think it was
4:21
Speaker 2: ninety one where it changed and it was at the
4:25
Speaker 2: RCA domin Indianapolis and since then mainly been in domes.
4:30
Speaker 2: It's these huge crowds. It's this huge social event. It's
4:37
Speaker 2: happening now. They have concerts and all this other stuff.
4:41
Speaker 2: It's more than just a basketball game. They tried to
4:44
Speaker 2: make it like the Super Bowl, where it's a cultural event,
4:48
Speaker 2: which as a sports fan, that doesn't really appeal to me,
4:52
Speaker 2: but there's obviously to a lot of other people. And
4:56
Speaker 2: the other biggest thing was, you know when I first
4:58
Speaker 2: covered it Indiana one in eighty one, Louisville was in
5:02
Speaker 2: the Final four in eighty two, louis was in the
5:04
Speaker 2: Final four in eighty three, Kentucky within the final four
5:08
Speaker 2: in eighty four, nobody made in eighty five, Louisville one
5:11
Speaker 2: in eighty six, Indiana one in eighty seven. So if
5:16
Speaker 2: you lived around here, it was just pretty much expected
5:19
Speaker 2: that one of the local teams was going to get
5:22
Speaker 2: to the Final four or for sure get to the
5:25
Speaker 2: sweet sixteen. And we all know the torture history of
5:30
Speaker 2: value basketball. Since two thousand and two, Louisville hasn't been
5:33
Speaker 2: to the Final four. I don't believe since they won
5:37
Speaker 2: it in twenty thirteen, and after Tucky hasn't been since
5:41
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen that the big three in this area really
5:44
Speaker 2: has sort of wobbled quite a bit in the latest
5:49
Speaker 2: era of college basketball.
5:51
Speaker 1: What was your favorite? I saw some interesting comments on
5:55
Speaker 1: social media yesterday. Someone was complaining I don't know who
5:58
Speaker 1: it was, it was just some random person that was
6:01
Speaker 1: I think in Indianapolis to cover the Final four there,
6:03
Speaker 1: complaining that it shouldn't be in a city where the
6:05
Speaker 1: weather could be potentially cold, which was funny because it
6:08
Speaker 1: was like seventy some degrees in indi Astually, I've only
6:12
Speaker 1: been to the I've been in ninety one, ninety seven,
6:14
Speaker 1: in two thousand, and those are all on Indy. You
6:17
Speaker 1: were fortunate enough to be able to give me tickets
6:19
Speaker 1: to be able to have a chance to go to those.
6:21
Speaker 1: But what was your What were your favorite cities to
6:24
Speaker 1: go to to cover the final four? Which ones did
6:26
Speaker 1: you feel like really stood out and did the best job?
6:28
Speaker 1: You know, obviously people talk about Indie being easy because
6:33
Speaker 1: you kind of got everything downtown there, you know. I've
6:35
Speaker 1: heard stories from other media members of having to take
6:38
Speaker 1: media shuttles thirty to forty five minutes from the media
6:41
Speaker 1: hotel to get to various venues that depending on where
6:45
Speaker 1: they have it, it does seem like Indy does a
6:47
Speaker 1: particularly good job. But I'm kind of curious what stands
6:50
Speaker 1: out to you maybe about some of the better cities
6:52
Speaker 1: that you've had a chance to go and cover it at.
6:56
Speaker 2: I think Indianapolis is number one because the team's for
7:00
Speaker 2: the most part, unless their coach doesn't want to uh
7:03
Speaker 2: in the media and the coaches. It's a huge and
7:07
Speaker 2: for the coaches to gather and you know about much
7:12
Speaker 2: they like or hate their jobs or people, high assistant
7:14
Speaker 2: coaches or whatever. It's all pretty centralized in Indianapolis. I
7:19
Speaker 2: liked going to New Orleans. I always thought the super
7:22
Speaker 2: Dome was a decent place to watch the games. Another
7:25
Speaker 2: place that was walkable. The great restaurants were walkable. It's
7:29
Speaker 2: an interesting city. I didn't mind going to Atlanta. The
7:35
Speaker 2: domes there have always been pretty nice. Another place where
7:39
Speaker 2: you can either walk or ride the uh the whatever
7:44
Speaker 2: they call it there Marta think Marta, Yeah it's Marta.
7:48
Speaker 2: You could ride that downtown. Those are probably be my
7:51
Speaker 2: three favorites. You know, doesn't ever go to Philadelphia anymore,
7:56
Speaker 2: the meadowlands or those kinds of places. And I was
8:00
Speaker 2: I never covered one in Phoenix, so I don't know
8:02
Speaker 2: what that was like, but it was just out there
8:05
Speaker 2: for spring training in the football stadium is way out
8:08
Speaker 2: on the west side of town, all the way from downtown.
8:12
Speaker 2: Wasn't a big fan of Houston. I covered a couple
8:14
Speaker 2: in that place.
8:15
Speaker 1: That was the one I heard about people having to
8:17
Speaker 1: take longer bus rides the game. San Antonio is another one.
8:22
Speaker 1: You hear about teams.
8:23
Speaker 2: That was a good one. That was a good one.
8:25
Speaker 1: Seem to like it.
8:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think the NCAA doesn't like it because
8:28
Speaker 2: the Alamo Dome is not as big as the other one,
8:30
Speaker 2: so I can't all those twenty thousand tickets that we
8:34
Speaker 2: can't see the game anyway. Yeah, I actually didn't mind
8:40
Speaker 2: going to the that. I haven't been for a basketball
8:43
Speaker 2: game in the New Dome in Minneapolis, but I thought
8:47
Speaker 2: the ones in the Metrodome were pretty interesting, maybe because
8:50
Speaker 2: the games were good. I only went to one in
8:55
Speaker 2: Detroit that was two thousand and nine with Carolina. Well,
8:59
Speaker 2: I say they beat Chigan, stayed in the championship game.
9:03
Speaker 2: That was okay. Another one that was in walking Distanstern
9:05
Speaker 2: the hotels downtown. I mean, as a media member, I
9:08
Speaker 2: look at different things than fans do. It's like what's
9:10
Speaker 2: convenient in big hassle, and those would be the ones
9:13
Speaker 2: that stand out to me.
9:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, going back to kind of the last thing I asked.
9:18
Speaker 1: That didn't mean to ask such a two parter, but
9:20
Speaker 1: what were maybe one or two final fours that stand
9:23
Speaker 1: out to you as being memorable in terms of just
9:25
Speaker 1: the games? You know, I remember, I think it was
9:27
Speaker 1: nine years old, nineteen ninety one, correct me if I'm wrong.
9:30
Speaker 1: That was when Duke beat UNLV in Indianapolis, so that
9:34
Speaker 1: was obviously. The moment you remember from that game was
9:37
Speaker 1: the Bobby Hurley pass I think from just about half
9:40
Speaker 1: court to Grant Hill for the alley up, and that
9:43
Speaker 1: was really kind of Duke breaking through for the first time.
9:46
Speaker 1: I think the year before they played UNLV in the
9:49
Speaker 1: final four, maybe it was in Denver and they got
9:52
Speaker 1: blitzed pretty badly.
9:54
Speaker 2: I lost by thirty. Yeah.
9:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, so then the next year they come back and
9:57
Speaker 1: win and knockoff us UNLV, So that one stands out
10:02
Speaker 1: to me. And then obviously being there for ninety seven
10:08
Speaker 1: as well, Arizona beating Kentucky. That was a great game.
10:10
Speaker 2: I thought over an over the overten game, I think, yeah, that.
10:13
Speaker 1: Was a lot of fun to watch. So I'm curious
10:15
Speaker 1: from your standpoint, you said the last one was twenty fifteen,
10:18
Speaker 1: so you were there obviously, what was that when Kentucky
10:20
Speaker 1: was unbeaten.
10:21
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, they got beat by Wisconsin Sountecker Frank Kaminski
10:25
Speaker 2: and they came rallied in the last four or five
10:28
Speaker 2: minutes to beat the game. That was a semi final game.
10:32
Speaker 2: You know obviously that the UNLB game was top five
10:39
Speaker 2: because UNLV was not only undefeated, but they were also
10:42
Speaker 2: trying to win back to back national champions and Tark
10:46
Speaker 2: was kind of the villain of the whole thing, and
10:49
Speaker 2: coach k had never broken through, even though he'd been
10:51
Speaker 2: to three or four final fours. He got beaten eighty
10:54
Speaker 2: six in a championship game by Louisville. I think they
10:56
Speaker 2: got beaten them eyes in eighty eight, eighty nine, nine.
11:01
Speaker 2: They got beat in ninety by UNLB by thirty, So
11:04
Speaker 2: he finally broke through. That one was up there. The
11:07
Speaker 2: ninety three Carolina Michigan game where Chris Weber called timeout
11:10
Speaker 2: and didn't have one. That was a great one. The
11:13
Speaker 2: ninety Swore game Arkansas Duke Arkansas beat him. That was
11:17
Speaker 2: a really good game. Close to the very end. I
11:19
Speaker 2: think Scotti Thurban had a big shot beating the game.
11:23
Speaker 2: The ninety seven Final four where Kentucky should have won
11:26
Speaker 2: and ended up being Rick Patino's last game was the
11:28
Speaker 2: Kentucky coach, but Nazi Muhammad I think missed five or
11:32
Speaker 2: six free throws that cost them the game. Two thousand
11:36
Speaker 2: and eight was a great one because all four number
11:38
Speaker 2: one seeds were there and Mario Chalmers hit that shot,
11:42
Speaker 2: and I think Kansas beat Memphis in overtime. Two thousand
11:47
Speaker 2: and three was a great game. I think the Keeam
11:49
Speaker 2: Warrick blocked a shot late. Syracuse beat Kansas, and Roy
11:53
Speaker 2: Williams in his last game at Kansas before he went
11:56
Speaker 2: to Carolina, that was a really good game. You know,
12:01
Speaker 2: Louisville beeaton Michigan in twenty thirteen was tremendous. The twenty
12:06
Speaker 2: ten game when Gordon Hayward almost throwing in half court
12:11
Speaker 2: to upset Duke. I mean, Final four rarely disappoints, usually
12:17
Speaker 2: gives you stuff to right about and talk about for
12:22
Speaker 2: a long long time.
12:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, So looking ahead to this year's Final four, I
12:25
Speaker 1: think everyone's hopeful that we're going to get some of
12:27
Speaker 1: those memories from this year's Final four. Obviously have I
12:33
Speaker 1: don't want to know if you want to call it
12:34
Speaker 1: the undercard, but I think most people are maybe focused
12:38
Speaker 1: a little bit on Michigan Arizona because that's the game
12:40
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have wanted to see
12:41
Speaker 1: all year one versus two and Ken Palm to open
12:45
Speaker 1: things up, You've got Illinois and Yukon, which to me
12:48
Speaker 1: should also be a tremendous game. When you look at
12:51
Speaker 1: these matchups, what in particular are you looking to see
12:56
Speaker 1: out of these games? Anything stand out in terms of
12:58
Speaker 1: individual players you're curious to see. I mean I wrote
13:01
Speaker 1: previews on both games, and just looking at Yukon and
13:07
Speaker 1: ILLINOI first, I think, obviously Yukon's strength is they're versatile.
13:13
Speaker 1: They have a lot of different pieces that can do
13:15
Speaker 1: various things. But Terris Reid's been playing tremendous and I'm
13:18
Speaker 1: curious to kind of see how Illinois matches up with
13:20
Speaker 1: him on the inside. He's been really great throughout the
13:23
Speaker 1: tournament for Yukon inside and then with Illinois obviously Keaton
13:26
Speaker 1: Wagler has been great all season. Curious to see what
13:30
Speaker 1: different looks Yukon throws at him to be able to
13:32
Speaker 1: slow him down. And then obviously in Michigan Arizona. You
13:38
Speaker 1: look at Arizona, they're one of the teams that can
13:41
Speaker 1: stand toe to toe with Michigan in the front court.
13:43
Speaker 1: You look at their offensive rebounding, you look at their
13:46
Speaker 1: two point field goal percentage defense. Even though maybe they're
13:49
Speaker 1: not as big as Michigan. Inside, they've I mean, that's
13:54
Speaker 1: how they've won games. All season and Tommy Lloyd has
13:56
Speaker 1: them playing terrific basketball. I think they have the nations
14:00
Speaker 1: longest winning streak coming into this game. So, like I said,
14:03
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not often that you see two matchups
14:06
Speaker 1: that I think the points that I want to look
14:07
Speaker 1: this morning for both was one and a half. So,
14:10
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that you can draw up
14:12
Speaker 1: a better final four just in terms of getting too
14:14
Speaker 1: well balanced matchups before between four really great teams. I mean,
14:19
Speaker 1: Yukon obviously maybe the least expected to get here of
14:23
Speaker 1: the of the four, just based on how they beat Duke,
14:26
Speaker 1: and they're a little bit lower in kin Palm. But
14:28
Speaker 1: I think Illinois four and ken bom so you've got,
14:30
Speaker 1: really from the analytics, three of the top four teams
14:33
Speaker 1: in the country remaining still standing here in the final four.
14:37
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's a fascinating final four because you
14:41
Speaker 2: do have the two teams that most people think are
14:44
Speaker 2: the two best teams in the country, and the other
14:46
Speaker 2: two teams are two seeds that you kind of finished
14:49
Speaker 2: second the Big East what Illinois finished in the Big
14:51
Speaker 2: Ten second, So you know, they're very, very formidable teams.
14:57
Speaker 2: The Illinois Yukon game is a rematch they played a
15:00
Speaker 2: long time ago and Yukon won by thirteen, but the
15:03
Speaker 2: teams have changed quite a bit since then. As you mentioned,
15:06
Speaker 2: terras Reed has been terrific. He's kind of carried Yukon
15:09
Speaker 2: on this run because they really haven't shot the ball
15:11
Speaker 2: well from outside they did in that rally against Duke Yukon.
15:18
Speaker 2: He's going to have to get better play out of Mullins.
15:20
Speaker 2: People talk about Mullens hitting that shot. He I don't
15:23
Speaker 2: think he had a great game before then at all,
15:25
Speaker 2: and solo ball hasn't played great. They're going to have
15:28
Speaker 2: to play a lot better against Illinois because Illinois has
15:32
Speaker 2: the size on the depth to defend Paris Reed aggressively.
15:40
Speaker 2: What I wonder about is whether Illinois has the athleticism
15:46
Speaker 2: and dynamic players on the perimeter to defend against Connecticut guys.
15:51
Speaker 2: Because Connecticut, as you saw during that rally against Duke,
15:55
Speaker 2: as you saw if he played him watching play Saint
15:57
Speaker 2: John's and they really really aggressive and relentless team, and
16:01
Speaker 2: you can get them down and they're not gonna I'm
16:04
Speaker 2: not going to surrender. And they have a coach who's
16:06
Speaker 2: already won two national championships and knows what he's doing.
16:10
Speaker 2: We know like him or not, so I think that's
16:13
Speaker 2: a really Illinois is a point in a half favored.
16:16
Speaker 2: I think the games toss up. I think Illinois will
16:18
Speaker 2: have a slight home court advantage because it's a two
16:22
Speaker 2: hour drive for their fans. All the Yukon fans travel really,
16:26
Speaker 2: really well. The second game, as you mentioned, is one
16:31
Speaker 2: of the two teams that are probably the best two
16:35
Speaker 2: teams in the country and have been since the start
16:37
Speaker 2: of the season. Arizona is a bit of a throwback,
16:40
Speaker 2: and they shoot threes less than almost any other team
16:45
Speaker 2: in the country, and I'm sure among all the power
16:47
Speaker 2: forward teams. UH. And they're not going to change. Uh.
16:51
Speaker 2: They're they're gonna either go to their big men or
16:55
Speaker 2: there are their other guys are going to attack the rim,
16:58
Speaker 2: or they're they're fine taking the shots. And they're another
17:01
Speaker 2: team that's super aggressive and athletic. Michigan is big, obviously
17:08
Speaker 2: massive across the front line with Mara Johnson and Bendenborg.
17:18
Speaker 2: He's been great. Lindenborg has been great to probably be
17:21
Speaker 2: a lottery pick. Their guards I think are good. I'm
17:26
Speaker 2: not a huge fan of Cadou. We'll see how he
17:29
Speaker 2: holds up against Arizona. Dusty Bay has been to a
17:32
Speaker 2: Final four, Tommy Lloyd hasn't. Michigan should have more fans
17:36
Speaker 2: there because their fans also can drive Arizona. It's an investment.
17:41
Speaker 2: So I'm hoping, I'll be honest, that's a Big Ten person.
17:45
Speaker 2: I'm hoping for a Michigan Illinois championship game. So the
17:49
Speaker 2: narrative about the Big Ten not winning a championship since
17:51
Speaker 2: two thousand put away for a while because even though
17:54
Speaker 2: they haven't won one, I believe I counted up, they've
17:57
Speaker 2: been to the championship eight times. Most of those years,
18:01
Speaker 2: I think they were underdogs a couple of years. I
18:03
Speaker 2: think Illinois might have been a better team most of
18:05
Speaker 2: the year than Carolina in two thousand and five. There
18:09
Speaker 2: was maybe one other year the Big Ten might have
18:11
Speaker 2: been a better team. But even though the Big Ten
18:14
Speaker 2: hasn't won at all, you know, they've had teams get
18:19
Speaker 2: to the final thing where it's not like I think
18:22
Speaker 2: sometimes the narrative is overdone and they have will want
18:24
Speaker 2: a championship game. But if they win one this year
18:28
Speaker 2: and that move on to the next narrative whenever, that would.
18:30
Speaker 1: Be Yeah, it's definitely not that they haven't had chances
18:35
Speaker 1: or not that they haven't had great teams, but I
18:36
Speaker 1: do think for the league in general, it would be
18:38
Speaker 1: good to kind of get that out of the conversation
18:40
Speaker 1: because it's been something that obviously gets brought up every
18:43
Speaker 1: year that goes by that it's just hard to believe
18:45
Speaker 1: with the great programs that you have in this league
18:47
Speaker 1: that they haven't won one in twenty six years. So,
18:50
Speaker 1: like you, I'm hopeful that both Big Ten teams take
18:54
Speaker 1: care of business and you have Illinois Michigan playing for
18:57
Speaker 1: the national championship on Monday, and then the Big Tens
19:00
Speaker 1: early on top of the whorld in college sports when
19:02
Speaker 1: you look at it, because the two sports that matter
19:04
Speaker 1: the most in terms of the revenue and where the
19:06
Speaker 1: eyeballs are. They've already won the championship in college football
19:09
Speaker 1: with Indiana. I think they've won three straight in college football.
19:12
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, they win one in basketball and
19:16
Speaker 1: the the SEC and everyone else is playing catchups. So
19:19
Speaker 1: that would be a great position for the league to
19:21
Speaker 1: be in looking forward like you are too, hopefully two
19:24
Speaker 1: great games on Saturday and then looking ahead to the
19:26
Speaker 1: National Championship on Monday. Wanted to wrap up this episode
19:30
Speaker 1: with just some IU basketball thoughts. Obviously, the fact that
19:36
Speaker 1: the Final Four is in Indianapolis and India's backyard doesn't
19:39
Speaker 1: obviously sit well with a ton of IU fans, the
19:42
Speaker 1: fact that they've missed the tournament now three straight years,
19:45
Speaker 1: and there's obviously some storylines that you can throw in
19:48
Speaker 1: that are just kind of not favorable to IU. When
19:52
Speaker 1: you look at Dusty May, you know, in alum coaching
19:55
Speaker 1: Michigan being in the game up there, you got Braylan Mullens,
19:57
Speaker 1: who's an Indiana kid playing for you. You've got ILLINOI,
20:01
Speaker 1: who in many ways has been you know, second third
20:04
Speaker 1: in terms of a rivalry with Indiana. They made a
20:07
Speaker 1: higher the same coaching cycle as Indiana did back in
20:10
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. And when you look at that that coaching cycle,
20:13
Speaker 1: and Archie Miller, Chris Holtman, and Brad Underwood were all
20:16
Speaker 1: hired in twenty seventeen at the respective schools. I haven't
20:21
Speaker 1: done this, but I think if you went back and
20:22
Speaker 1: looked at the grades at those hires were given, I
20:24
Speaker 1: would say Underwood probably got the least favorable of the
20:28
Speaker 1: three and he's now the man that has his team
20:31
Speaker 1: in the program in the final four. He's really done
20:34
Speaker 1: a great job of building that Illinois program. And then
20:38
Speaker 1: you look at Yukon, I don't know exactly do they
20:42
Speaker 1: have five national championships?
20:43
Speaker 2: Is that right?
20:44
Speaker 1: And they've won them all as won one, So if
20:48
Speaker 1: they win this one, they overtake Indiana. So their storyline,
20:51
Speaker 1: I have.
20:52
Speaker 2: Six, they might have six, I think then Calhoun win three,
20:56
Speaker 2: Kevin Ollie won one and.
20:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right early, so there are past so just
21:01
Speaker 1: come they could have another one. So yeah, again, just
21:05
Speaker 1: just things that I'm sure go through the mind of
21:07
Speaker 1: some Indiana fans as they see this final four happening
21:11
Speaker 1: just you know, an hour up the road. And obviously
21:14
Speaker 1: Indianapolis is a big IU town. The fact that India
21:17
Speaker 1: is not really in the conversation doesn't sit well with
21:19
Speaker 1: a lot of people. But when you look at just
21:22
Speaker 1: I haven't had you on, I don't think since the
21:24
Speaker 1: end of the season, When you look at how things
21:26
Speaker 1: ended and you look at what is coming up here
21:29
Speaker 1: with the portal, just what do you make of what happened?
21:34
Speaker 1: A big picture in year one? Obviously disappointing to not
21:36
Speaker 1: make the tournament, But I think there are some things
21:39
Speaker 1: that you can take away that were good in terms
21:42
Speaker 1: of just a different style of play and a little
21:44
Speaker 1: bit more organization in terms of how the program is
21:47
Speaker 1: being run. But it's a big period coming up for
21:52
Speaker 1: Darren de Reason in the program. In terms of the
21:54
Speaker 1: portal being open, not a lot of information out there
21:56
Speaker 1: right now. Things are being really kept close to the vest.
21:59
Speaker 1: I think part to that. You know, a lot of
22:01
Speaker 1: people have been asking me, sending me emails, you know,
22:04
Speaker 1: asking on social media, asking in our community over and
22:06
Speaker 1: inside the hall, like who's Indiana recruiting? Who are they
22:08
Speaker 1: going to get? I think at this point, with the
22:10
Speaker 1: portal not officially opening until Tuesday, the information is being
22:14
Speaker 1: kept pretty close to the vest because obviously there's expectation
22:20
Speaker 1: that that you don't do any tampering. We all know
22:23
Speaker 1: kind of what's going on behind the scenes everywhere in
22:25
Speaker 1: terms of agents talking to coaches, but at this point
22:29
Speaker 1: players cannot directly are not supposed to be directly speaking
22:33
Speaker 1: to programs. So I think that's one reason why you
22:35
Speaker 1: haven't seen a lot of information. But just a big picture,
22:40
Speaker 1: how big is this period coming up for the program
22:43
Speaker 1: in terms of the portal and kind of restoring maybe
22:47
Speaker 1: a little bit of positive momentum after a season that
22:50
Speaker 1: really kind of ended on a sour note.
22:55
Speaker 2: I guess I'll start off as saying this. I remember
22:59
Speaker 2: because in ten and the Final four was in Indianapolis.
23:03
Speaker 2: That was maybe at the end of Crane's first or
23:07
Speaker 2: second year, I don't know, second second year, and that
23:12
Speaker 2: was maybe like a six and twenty six year or
23:14
Speaker 2: something like that, and being in the Final four and
23:17
Speaker 2: Butler was in it with West Virginia, Michigan State and
23:20
Speaker 2: Duke and walking around downtown thinking Indiana is a long
23:25
Speaker 2: way away from being in the final four. Maybe the
23:28
Speaker 2: next time the Final four is in Indianapolis, they can
23:32
Speaker 2: be a part of it. Well, the next time was
23:33
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, and I think that year that they got
23:39
Speaker 2: in tournament, got beat the first game. Yeah, and they
23:44
Speaker 2: weren't a part of it. And now it's back again
23:46
Speaker 2: and they're not as far away as they were in
23:49
Speaker 2: twenty ten, but they're pretty far away. And it's mystifying
23:53
Speaker 2: to me why it's become so difficult, not even talking
23:59
Speaker 2: about it. Getting to the file four been like to
24:01
Speaker 2: making any tournament. But it's a variety of reasons, and
24:06
Speaker 2: obviously that Archie Miller wasn't the right guy for the job,
24:10
Speaker 2: even though you have to give him credit. He did
24:13
Speaker 2: recruit Romeo and Trace Jackson, Davis and Race Thompson and
24:17
Speaker 2: some decent players. He might he might have got to
24:21
Speaker 2: the tournament the year of COVID, I don't know, but
24:24
Speaker 2: by the end it was time for him to go.
24:26
Speaker 2: And since then, you know, he hasn't really done much
24:29
Speaker 2: at Rhode Island. And then they brought in Woodson, and
24:32
Speaker 2: you know, he had got to the semi finals to
24:35
Speaker 2: the Big Ten tournament and made two NCAA tournaments, won
24:39
Speaker 2: a game each year, but then got blown out, beaten
24:44
Speaker 2: decisively both times when we got beat and never made
24:47
Speaker 2: it to the sweet sixteen. And now we're one year
24:50
Speaker 2: into debrees, and you know, it's reasonable to look around
24:55
Speaker 2: and say there were a bunch of other first year
24:56
Speaker 2: coaches who did better jobs and he in the first year.
25:01
Speaker 2: Why do I think it wasn't better. My belief is
25:06
Speaker 2: that a too long of a ramp up time to
25:11
Speaker 2: get his staff together and to get his recruiting going.
25:15
Speaker 2: And that's not the situation this year. The staff's been
25:19
Speaker 2: in place, must be, and Ryan Carr has been there.
25:22
Speaker 2: And secondly, they made some wrong decisions in the portal.
25:27
Speaker 2: I mean, Lamar Wilkerson, I would argue, and maybe Tucker
25:32
Speaker 2: DeVries when he's playing at a high level. We're the
25:35
Speaker 2: only two guys on that im team that could make
25:38
Speaker 2: the starting rotation for any of the teams that are
25:41
Speaker 2: in the final four. And they just weren't good enough.
25:43
Speaker 2: Bailey that might be a great guy, probably is a
25:46
Speaker 2: great guy. Not good enough. Dan Connway not good enough.
25:51
Speaker 2: Nick Dorn not good enough. Then Alexis man ether ninth
25:57
Speaker 2: man on Florida eight ninth man on the good team
26:00
Speaker 2: this year. And unless you're something another one and right
26:04
Speaker 2: not he's a backup. He's an eight or ten minute
26:07
Speaker 2: guy on a good team. Unless you're some kind of
26:10
Speaker 2: extraordinary coach who does some kind of extraordinary thing, whether
26:14
Speaker 2: it's playing slow or really coaching elite defense or something,
26:21
Speaker 2: you're not gonna win with those guys. And you know,
26:24
Speaker 2: my final read on this team this year was, instead
26:27
Speaker 2: of being curious about why they finished the way they did,
26:34
Speaker 2: is more of how did they win some of the
26:37
Speaker 2: games they won? How did they beat Purdue at home?
26:39
Speaker 2: How did they beat Wisconsin at home? How did they
26:42
Speaker 2: beat you cling on the road? Those are games that
26:45
Speaker 2: realistically they shouldn't have won. So the next thing I'll
26:50
Speaker 2: say is that this is huge for them. This is huge.
26:54
Speaker 2: They can't have another year like this year where they're
27:01
Speaker 2: not going to make the tournament and you know, finishing
27:04
Speaker 2: in the second half of the Big Ten because theyf
27:08
Speaker 2: you're to believe the stuff that we read or are told.
27:11
Speaker 2: I mean, they have the Nile resources, they have a
27:15
Speaker 2: full staff now, they have a GM, they have the tradition,
27:20
Speaker 2: they have the resources, they have the facilities to be
27:24
Speaker 2: better what they are and for them to be in
27:27
Speaker 2: a position where they've lost seven straight to Northwestern and
27:31
Speaker 2: you know, are considerably back of Nebraska is not understandable
27:38
Speaker 2: to me, and I don't think it's understandable to many
27:43
Speaker 2: IU fans who've all of the program and you know
27:47
Speaker 2: for the last twenty thirty, forty or like me, fifty years.
27:50
Speaker 2: They don't understand it. Why they so far behind the
27:55
Speaker 2: rest of the pact. And it's not going to change
27:58
Speaker 2: in one year completely That coach needs time to sort
28:03
Speaker 2: of develop his system and his program. If you're going
28:08
Speaker 2: to do it with freshmen, which I think they want to.
28:10
Speaker 2: It's got three freshmen coming in and they want to
28:13
Speaker 2: sort of be foundational pieces, you know. But the hard
28:18
Speaker 2: part about that'll be is you can't count as freshmen
28:22
Speaker 2: being foundation a piece. You know. The odds are that
28:25
Speaker 2: at least one of those three freshmen will say I
28:28
Speaker 2: didn't get to play enough, somebody else is offered me
28:30
Speaker 2: more money, I'm out of here. And it's a challenge.
28:35
Speaker 2: And so they've got, you know, a lot of proving
28:41
Speaker 2: to do, I think for the rest of the Big ten,
28:44
Speaker 2: and they've got a lot of prison to do their
28:46
Speaker 2: fan base to say they can take that exact step.
28:49
Speaker 2: But I think it's critical that they do. Because he
28:52
Speaker 2: only went to two games this year. You went to
28:53
Speaker 2: games this year, When you went into a semi hall
28:56
Speaker 2: this year, you could tell that one portion of the
29:03
Speaker 2: fan base is sort of checked out. You know. It
29:06
Speaker 2: wasn't full or as loud in my begion as it
29:10
Speaker 2: normally was, and people it's understandable because it's not just
29:16
Speaker 2: like they've been down for a few years. It's financier
29:21
Speaker 2: tournament appearances in ten years, no final fours in twenty
29:25
Speaker 2: four years, no elite eights in twenty four years. Is
29:30
Speaker 2: that two thousand and two the last time they maybe
29:32
Speaker 2: a lead eate? I mean except for those two thousand
29:37
Speaker 2: and twelve and thirteen under Cream six twenty sixteen when
29:44
Speaker 2: they started off bad and the heat got really turned
29:46
Speaker 2: up on Indiana and they turned it around a er
29:48
Speaker 2: Yogi Ferrell, it's been mainly like once they've got into
29:53
Speaker 2: the Big ten, they've they've struggled, and that needs the change.
29:58
Speaker 2: I don't understand why that why I don't.
30:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you bring up a good point just
30:03
Speaker 1: about the atmosphere in the building this past season, and
30:09
Speaker 1: I don't know how you fix that other than winning.
30:11
Speaker 1: But I do think that one thing, and I've talked
30:15
Speaker 1: about this on a couple of other podcasts I've done
30:17
Speaker 1: since the season ended, or maybe late in the season,
30:20
Speaker 1: it's one thing that I think it's missing now that
30:26
Speaker 1: wasn't maybe missing in the early creen years, was the
30:29
Speaker 1: feeling that you're building towards something with younger players. And
30:35
Speaker 1: I don't know how you do that exactly when guys
30:38
Speaker 1: are now it's kind of a one a year to
30:40
Speaker 1: year basis with young players, But there's not a I mean,
30:46
Speaker 1: there's a ton of things you can give Kurtz Signetty
30:47
Speaker 1: credit for, but the fact that he brought so many
30:50
Speaker 1: players from James Madison that were already proven, established players
30:55
Speaker 1: and then had those guys kind of lead leading the team.
30:58
Speaker 1: And you could feel the fan base building a connection
31:01
Speaker 1: with those guys as they won games and got to
31:04
Speaker 1: know them better. And you mentioned when you were kind
31:09
Speaker 1: of going through the rundown of the lineup, this guy
31:12
Speaker 1: might have been a good guy. Nobody really knew any
31:15
Speaker 1: of these players, so they never had a connection with
31:18
Speaker 1: the players because they were all just there for one year.
31:21
Speaker 1: The ones that actually played, and that's the I mean.
31:23
Speaker 1: This other thing is the younger guys that were on
31:25
Speaker 1: the roster for the most part didn't get to play.
31:27
Speaker 1: So either they're either going to be leaving be the
31:30
Speaker 1: portal or they're gonna be coming back and be largely unproven.
31:34
Speaker 1: So there's just not a feeling of building towards anything.
31:38
Speaker 1: I think if they would have made the tournament, then
31:40
Speaker 1: you could at least say, hey, we made the tournament.
31:42
Speaker 1: It was a good first year. We hope to build
31:44
Speaker 1: on this and be even better next year. But instead
31:46
Speaker 1: this was all right, we have six seniors that we're
31:49
Speaker 1: going to play a ton of minutes. We're really going
31:51
Speaker 1: to try to make the tournament. Oh we didn't make
31:53
Speaker 1: the tournament, so now we're gonna flip the roster completely.
31:56
Speaker 1: Here's a brand new set of other new guys that
31:59
Speaker 1: nobody knows and does and have a connection with. And
32:01
Speaker 1: so I think the fan base in Indiana. I don't
32:04
Speaker 1: know if this is specific to Indiana, but the thing
32:07
Speaker 1: I hear about a lot from fans is obviously they
32:10
Speaker 1: miss things the way they quote unquote used to be,
32:12
Speaker 1: which is not going back to that way. But I
32:14
Speaker 1: do think there is something to having guys and having
32:18
Speaker 1: a couple guys with some continuity that the fan base
32:22
Speaker 1: really gets a connection with, is wants to cheer for,
32:24
Speaker 1: because you know, if you're just trotting out ten or
32:27
Speaker 1: twelve new players every year and you're not winning, there's
32:32
Speaker 1: no attachment from the fan base. And I think that's
32:34
Speaker 1: kind of shown itself the last couple of years because
32:37
Speaker 1: even going back to the year where was a Woodson's
32:40
Speaker 1: last year, where he brought in all those transfers and
32:42
Speaker 1: maybe they were more talented, but they didn't do much
32:45
Speaker 1: in terms of building a connection with the fan base,
32:47
Speaker 1: and then once they started losing, it's pretty easy to disengage.
32:51
Speaker 1: I think they need to do a better job of
32:55
Speaker 1: just building that connection with the fans. I don't know what.
32:58
Speaker 1: I don't know what that looks like, not a PR
33:01
Speaker 1: marketing person or somebody that knows how to do that,
33:05
Speaker 1: but I do think that would at least go a
33:08
Speaker 1: little way in terms of building a connection, But ultimately
33:11
Speaker 1: comes down to winning, right, I mean, if they don't win,
33:14
Speaker 1: the support is going to be harder to come by,
33:17
Speaker 1: especially with what football is doing.
33:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say several things. One is, when Crane first
33:23
Speaker 2: started building program, in the first class he brought in
33:26
Speaker 2: a major one was Jordan Halls and Derek Elston. Watford
33:31
Speaker 2: was Watford and Creek, but I mean Halls and Nelston
33:33
Speaker 2: were Indiana kids. The next year was Cody Zeller in Averrington.
33:37
Speaker 2: I think the next year was Jogi Feral So there
33:42
Speaker 2: were Indiana the best kids in Indiana were coming to Indiana.
33:45
Speaker 2: For the most part, we're among the best kids in Indiana.
33:48
Speaker 2: And he kept it up for as long as he could,
33:50
Speaker 2: and when he quit when he was unable to do
33:53
Speaker 2: that is last season and didn't get Scrugs or Johnson
33:56
Speaker 2: or Malik Williams or one kid that went to UC.
34:01
Speaker 2: That's when a lot of people turned on it. It's
34:04
Speaker 2: unfortunate that there weren't any you know, Big Ten caliber
34:07
Speaker 2: players in the state of Indiana this year other than
34:09
Speaker 2: Ardle who's going to Purdue. But what makes it difficult
34:12
Speaker 2: for Indiana fans when you say that is look up
34:16
Speaker 2: the road. At Purdue. They just had Braden Smith, Fletcher Lawyer,
34:19
Speaker 2: and Trace Pray Kaufman Wren who were four and five
34:24
Speaker 2: year in state guys who were there and actually were
34:27
Speaker 2: the old fashion method of building a program. They came in,
34:31
Speaker 2: got better every year, had tremendous success. Didn't win a
34:35
Speaker 2: national championship, No they didn't. They got their championship game
34:37
Speaker 2: one year with Edie, but they had tremendous success in
34:40
Speaker 2: the Big Ten. They played a ton of big games
34:43
Speaker 2: on a national scale and one more than their share.
34:46
Speaker 2: And they see that and say, why isn't that happening here? Well,
34:50
Speaker 2: there aren't. You've got Cicely and that's it. There aren't
34:53
Speaker 2: going to be in anything unless they get somebody out
34:55
Speaker 2: of portal. And I think that matters to Indiana. It
35:00
Speaker 2: does to the older ones. It might not to the
35:02
Speaker 2: younger ones, but it matters to the younger ones because
35:04
Speaker 2: they can remember. You know that seventy sixteen had Wilkerson
35:11
Speaker 2: and Abernathy and Benson Indiana kids. The eighty one team
35:17
Speaker 2: had Whitman and Ketchell and Landing Turner and Ray Talbot
35:21
Speaker 2: Indiana kids. The eighty seven team had Alford, and I
35:27
Speaker 2: think there were a couple of guys on the bench
35:28
Speaker 2: or Indiana guys the two thousand even the two thousand
35:31
Speaker 2: and two team that went to the final four at
35:34
Speaker 2: Coverdale and Jared Odle and maybe one other kid, but
35:38
Speaker 2: there was Jeffries, Jared Jeffries. There you go. And since then,
35:44
Speaker 2: I mean, and then when you look at Brayln Mullins
35:46
Speaker 2: and everybody. You know, the story's getting out more nashally now,
35:49
Speaker 2: but everybody who follows Ivy basketball knows what the story
35:52
Speaker 2: is that you know, he had some Indiana and interest
35:56
Speaker 2: in his family. In the Woodson staff, starting with the
36:01
Speaker 2: head coach totally botch the recruitment by not working at
36:06
Speaker 2: it like his job dependent on it, and the kid
36:09
Speaker 2: ended up going to Yukon because Hurley did recruit him
36:13
Speaker 2: like his job depended on it, and people who follow
36:16
Speaker 2: the team look at that and get I'm annoyed by
36:20
Speaker 2: it and say this needs to be fixed. And so
36:24
Speaker 2: I don't know in the twenty seven class, are there
36:26
Speaker 2: in any end any kids who are Big ten caliber.
36:30
Speaker 2: I don't know if there are.
36:31
Speaker 1: Jason Gardner junior obviously.
36:33
Speaker 2: And the Kiss maybe yeah. Well Gardner's going to be
36:37
Speaker 2: hard to get because his dad's assistant coaching Arizona, and
36:40
Speaker 2: I don't know about the Kiss and Pike, but you
36:42
Speaker 2: know they they need to be a player for some
36:44
Speaker 2: of those recruitments and not just let Michigan State come
36:49
Speaker 2: into the state and get whoever they want, or Connectiquette
36:52
Speaker 2: come in, or Pokemo come in and get Badunga or
36:56
Speaker 2: whatever it is. I mean, there's always an excuse they
36:59
Speaker 2: paid more money than they did whatever, But it's like
37:01
Speaker 2: they need to find a way to get some of
37:03
Speaker 2: these kids because I think that they're within the Indiana program.
37:09
Speaker 2: That's something that matters to a segment of the fan base.
37:12
Speaker 2: They want to see Indiana high school players arm eyeing
37:15
Speaker 2: a team winning with curate more than anything else than
37:19
Speaker 2: we saw during football, where the crowds, you know, were
37:22
Speaker 2: miserable for years and years and years. I mean, you
37:25
Speaker 2: could use to go to a NAYU football game and
37:27
Speaker 2: you could show up twenty minutes before kickoff and drive
37:30
Speaker 2: right into parking rot because there was no traffic. And
37:33
Speaker 2: halftime we all know the stories. Kids would go a
37:36
Speaker 2: tailgame and leave, people would leave at halftime. They they
37:41
Speaker 2: had averaged low forties in terms of the fifty two
37:45
Speaker 2: thousand seat stadium, and a lot of times the crowds
37:47
Speaker 2: would be into thirty thousands. Well, by the middle of
37:51
Speaker 2: Signetti's second year, it became a happening. Now season tickets
37:54
Speaker 2: are sold out for the twenty twenty six season in advance.
37:57
Speaker 2: Indiana football has become a tough ticket. And if you
38:00
Speaker 2: look at the crowd, they had more people than Ohio
38:04
Speaker 2: State did the Big Ten Championship game. They had more
38:07
Speaker 2: people in Alabama at the Rose Bowl, they had ninety
38:09
Speaker 2: percent of the crowd in the Beach Bowl, and they
38:12
Speaker 2: had more fans in Miami in the National Championship Game.
38:16
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a rabid fan base that's been starved
38:18
Speaker 2: for success. And I think a lot of the frustration
38:22
Speaker 2: that people have had about basketball not winning has convinced
38:26
Speaker 2: some people like I'm going to invest in football instead.
38:28
Speaker 2: I'm going to get excited about the football team. I
38:30
Speaker 2: think if the basketball team wins and gives them just
38:33
Speaker 2: a little sprinkles, a little bit of food on their plate,
38:37
Speaker 2: that people will get excited again. But they watched them
38:42
Speaker 2: get run off the floor by Nebraska and get them,
38:47
Speaker 2: you know, handled by you know, Northwestern, and they said,
38:55
Speaker 2: this is this doesn't seem like it might any sense
38:58
Speaker 2: to me.
39:00
Speaker 1: Does last thing? And before I wrap up, does Dolson's
39:04
Speaker 1: background with basketball? Do you think that should give the
39:07
Speaker 1: fan base hope that he is committed long term to
39:10
Speaker 1: getting this right because as great as football is, and
39:14
Speaker 1: I think all their successions should be celebrated, and I
39:18
Speaker 1: think this fan support is total, one hundred and ten
39:21
Speaker 1: percent justified. I hope people continue to support this program
39:24
Speaker 1: moving forward. I hope they continue to win at the
39:26
Speaker 1: level that they are because it just uplifts the athletic department,
39:30
Speaker 1: It uplifts the university in such a big way. But
39:34
Speaker 1: at his core, Scott Dolson was an IU basketball manager.
39:39
Speaker 1: He's been around the program before he was the athletic director.
39:43
Speaker 1: You know, he was still heavily involved in basketball. I
39:46
Speaker 1: used to always see him at all the road games
39:48
Speaker 1: when he was doing stuff with the varsity club. He's
39:50
Speaker 1: obviously sits right there on the sideline at the scores table.
39:54
Speaker 1: I don't know how common that is around the country,
39:58
Speaker 1: but I doubt there's many Big Ten ads that are
40:01
Speaker 1: at every game like he is or seems to be,
40:04
Speaker 1: with their kind of their finger on the pulse of
40:07
Speaker 1: the program. So do you think his kind of long
40:10
Speaker 1: term involvement in this program, because really, the thing that's
40:13
Speaker 1: missing from his resume, as I use I've like director
40:15
Speaker 1: right now is getting basketball back to at least a
40:20
Speaker 1: winning make the tournament every year level. Do you think
40:23
Speaker 1: that that should give people confidence that they are can
40:27
Speaker 1: you know, still kind of all in on getting this right?
40:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's Mark Gott. He knows it's the
40:36
Speaker 2: ball matters. It's not just an Indian university. Basketball matters
40:40
Speaker 2: in the state of Indiana. Well, it's it's the state
40:44
Speaker 2: of Indiana is known for basketball. The Final Four comes
40:46
Speaker 2: to Indiana once or twice a decade. The Big Ten
40:51
Speaker 2: is a great basketball conference. They've got one of the
40:54
Speaker 2: iconic venues in college basketball. They've got great tradition, they've
40:58
Speaker 2: got almost statues in the lobby. They got the banners
41:00
Speaker 2: inside assemble law. He gets it, and I think he
41:04
Speaker 2: wants to fix it, and I think he's going to
41:06
Speaker 2: fix it. And I think that the fact that Ryan
41:09
Speaker 2: Carr is on board, Now, you know, he had to
41:12
Speaker 2: agree the fund that position, and I'm sure he's making
41:18
Speaker 2: you know, four hundred thousand, five hundred thousand whatever, and
41:22
Speaker 2: so it's not like a basketball coach can just say
41:26
Speaker 2: I need to add four hundred thousand to our bottom line.
41:29
Speaker 1: Or another assistant coach was just add too.
41:32
Speaker 2: Right, So they added another assistant coach, and I think
41:34
Speaker 2: he I think that was a sign that Dolson understands
41:38
Speaker 2: it that they need somebody who can do a better job,
41:42
Speaker 2: because every other Duke has one of auch of other
41:44
Speaker 2: schools have general managers. Their sole job is to stay
41:47
Speaker 2: on top of the nil and the portal and roster
41:50
Speaker 2: management and all that stuff. And that's part of the fix.
41:55
Speaker 2: And you know, Carr was widely claimed all across college
41:58
Speaker 2: basketball in in the NBA phone terms of visibility. So
42:03
Speaker 2: we'll see. We should know in the next couple of
42:06
Speaker 2: weeks how much impact or what effect he'll have. The
42:09
Speaker 2: numbers that I see coming out none of these players
42:12
Speaker 2: are going to be demanding. Are sort of staggering, But
42:15
Speaker 2: I expect the roster will be better next year. And
42:18
Speaker 2: I think Dolson will work tires tireless league to get
42:23
Speaker 2: this fixed because he's a smart guy. I mean, fixing
42:27
Speaker 2: football was a lot more difficult than fixing basketball when
42:33
Speaker 2: we got that fixed and signetti, and I think he's
42:37
Speaker 2: going to get this fixed. How soon I can't type it.
42:41
Speaker 2: I think he'll he won't stop until he gets it fixed. Yeah.
42:45
Speaker 1: I think the numbers that were being that are being
42:48
Speaker 1: thrown out now for uh salaries, I think there's I
42:53
Speaker 1: don't want to say they're not salaries, they're ni l
42:55
Speaker 1: slash revenue share numbers. Those are probably just starting point
43:00
Speaker 1: for negotiation because we don't actually know exactly what these
43:04
Speaker 1: guys are going to be getting, don't That's I think
43:07
Speaker 1: that's one of the more frustrating parts too. I think
43:09
Speaker 1: for fans is you know, for example, I think an
43:15
Speaker 1: interesting recruitment, I have no idea what's going to happen,
43:18
Speaker 1: but this I have no inside information. I have no
43:21
Speaker 1: idea if Indian is even going to recruit this player.
43:24
Speaker 1: But I think an interesting recruitment he said he's gonna
43:27
Speaker 1: go in the portal, is gonna be Jalen Harrelson because
43:29
Speaker 1: he's an Indiana kid. He's a guy that they recruited
43:32
Speaker 1: the first time around with the previous coaching staff. He
43:36
Speaker 1: went anore Dame, obviously had a pretty good year as
43:38
Speaker 1: a freshman. But I think that from a pr perspective,
43:44
Speaker 1: in terms of bringing somebody in, I don't know if
43:46
Speaker 1: he's the best basketball fit. Again, I don't know if
43:48
Speaker 1: the one him or how hard they'll go after him.
43:50
Speaker 1: I think he'll be an interesting one. But the piece
43:53
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of people that frustrates a
43:55
Speaker 1: lot of people is you don't know exactly we know
43:59
Speaker 1: mostly decisions are money based, but you don't know exactly
44:03
Speaker 1: what you know. Let's say they're going after two or
44:05
Speaker 1: three other programs that have a little bit more money.
44:08
Speaker 1: So from an IU perspective, do you overpay this guy
44:11
Speaker 1: and then go cheap somewhere else. That's the thing where
44:14
Speaker 1: I think they need to get this right. From a
44:15
Speaker 1: roster management perspective is dial in on the money you
44:19
Speaker 1: have and then try to get the best player at
44:21
Speaker 1: each price point that you have, and don't be overspending
44:24
Speaker 1: on one or two guys because realistically, you look at this,
44:29
Speaker 1: I think they need a whole new starting lineup, and
44:31
Speaker 1: I think they are going to need to build out
44:34
Speaker 1: the rest of the roster with probably some depth guys
44:37
Speaker 1: that maybe make a little bit less money. I'd like
44:39
Speaker 1: to see them really go for four or five impact guys,
44:42
Speaker 1: spend the bulk of their money there, and then just
44:44
Speaker 1: fill the rest of the roster out with guys because
44:46
Speaker 1: you look at different programs, most of them are playing
44:51
Speaker 1: seven or eight core guys. Why spend significant money on
44:56
Speaker 1: your ninth, tenth, eleven, twelve, thirteenth guy. I mean, spend
44:59
Speaker 1: the money on the best players you can get, spend
45:01
Speaker 1: it wisely, and then see where it all shakes out
45:04
Speaker 1: from there. But I think the money part is tough
45:06
Speaker 1: for a lot of people to kind of cut through
45:08
Speaker 1: because you don't know exactly what's available, what a guy's
45:12
Speaker 1: going to Because I can just see it now, people
45:14
Speaker 1: will be thrilled, and again this is all hypothetical. People
45:18
Speaker 1: will be thrilled of jail and Harrelson ended up in Indiana.
45:20
Speaker 1: I think because he's an Indiana kid, McDonald's all American,
45:22
Speaker 1: they'd be happy for him. To be there, but I
45:24
Speaker 1: can just see if he visits and ends up going
45:26
Speaker 1: somewhere else, Well, why did in Indiana get him? Well,
45:30
Speaker 1: you don't know exactly what all the factors were. Was
45:33
Speaker 1: another school willing to pay him four hundred thousand more,
45:35
Speaker 1: and of course he's going to go there. So that's
45:37
Speaker 1: kind of how these things work and the lack of transparency.
45:40
Speaker 1: I mean, in baseball and an NBA and NFL, we
45:43
Speaker 1: can see the money of why a guy goes somewhere else,
45:47
Speaker 1: but in this we can't. Necessarily we don't know or
45:50
Speaker 1: left with with kind of innuendo and speculation, and that's
45:54
Speaker 1: not really hard to kind of cut through.
45:58
Speaker 2: I mean, that's going to be the job for car
46:00
Speaker 2: And he's got a pie, and this is how much
46:03
Speaker 2: money is in your pie, and you're going to figure
46:05
Speaker 2: out how to divide up the pie, get the best
46:08
Speaker 2: team you can get, and if you're going to give
46:09
Speaker 2: the biggest slice to one guy, better be really good guy. Right.
46:16
Speaker 2: But you also have to, you know, as this gets
46:18
Speaker 2: ready to I think you have to be able to
46:21
Speaker 2: cut through some of the nonsense and know, like we're
46:26
Speaker 2: talking to this guy, he's really good? Is he really
46:29
Speaker 2: gonna come for this amount, or when it gets down
46:33
Speaker 2: to time to actually sign, is his agent gonna pull
46:37
Speaker 2: some kind of switch through and say, well, I got
46:39
Speaker 2: an offer from this other school. It's going to cost
46:42
Speaker 2: you three hundred thousand dollars more. And while you're messing
46:45
Speaker 2: around with that, two or three other guys you were
46:47
Speaker 2: looking at another price point. I've already hit it somewhere else.
46:51
Speaker 2: So it's a challenging job to do this. You're you're
46:54
Speaker 2: dealing with seven free agents, you're dealing with you know,
47:01
Speaker 2: you have to know what the market really is because
47:05
Speaker 2: it's negotiating. People are going to inflate how much they're
47:08
Speaker 2: going to say they're getting from somewhere else, and you've
47:09
Speaker 2: got to deal bill, know which ones you really want
47:14
Speaker 2: to pay for and call the bluffs of people that
47:17
Speaker 2: you think are not worth the money and that they're
47:20
Speaker 2: asking for or not going to be able to get
47:22
Speaker 2: it from somebody else. You've got to have relationships with
47:26
Speaker 2: the agents of these players where you know you're getting
47:29
Speaker 2: truthful information and people negotiating again good face.
47:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where Ryan Carr when we met with them,
47:36
Speaker 1: was a small group of us. I think the week
47:39
Speaker 1: he was hired. He kept talking about the relationship with
47:41
Speaker 1: the agents. He mentioned that over and over, So you
47:44
Speaker 1: hope that those long standing relationships that he does have,
47:48
Speaker 1: that he has people that when they give the word
47:52
Speaker 1: that they're going to come, that that's kind of it
47:54
Speaker 1: because the last thing, like what you just mentioned is
47:56
Speaker 1: kind of a doomsday scenario and some of these recruitments,
47:58
Speaker 1: because it really can be the difference between having the
48:03
Speaker 1: roster that you need to make the tournament because all
48:04
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you think two or three guys are coming,
48:06
Speaker 1: all this sudden they pull switch through, and then your
48:09
Speaker 1: guys that are maybe three, four, five, six on your
48:11
Speaker 1: list go somewhere else. Then all of a sudden, you're
48:14
Speaker 1: you're kind of digging a little deeper into your depth
48:17
Speaker 1: chart of who you might want. So I think you
48:20
Speaker 1: make a great point of those relationships and being able
48:22
Speaker 1: to kind of cut through what's real and what's not
48:25
Speaker 1: is going to be pivotal. We could probably do a long,
48:28
Speaker 1: long conversation on just the transfer portal and basically I
48:32
Speaker 1: call it unregulated free agency what it's become at this point.
48:36
Speaker 1: Hopefully in the years to come, it'll it'll become a
48:40
Speaker 1: little bit more clear cut on what's allowed and what's not,
48:42
Speaker 1: but we'll have it all covered for you on Inside
48:45
Speaker 1: the Hall in the weeks to come. The portal officially
48:47
Speaker 1: opens on Tuesday, Final four Saturday, and then obviously National
48:51
Speaker 1: Championship game on Monday. Thank you, dad, that's what you're
48:58
Speaker 1: it's weird calling you, oh, thank you so much. Appreciate
49:01
Speaker 1: it doing a podcast on my birthday. So if you've
49:04
Speaker 1: lasted forty nine minutes, you just learned that today's my birthday.
49:07
Speaker 1: So thanks for listening, everybody. If you enjoy the show
49:13
Speaker 1: over an Apple podcast for Spotify, leave us a rating
49:15
Speaker 1: or review, preferably five stars. Wou'd appreciate that. If you're
49:19
Speaker 1: watching on YouTube, like the video, subscribe to the channel.
49:21
Speaker 1: I've been posting a ton of football content over on
49:24
Speaker 1: YouTube from spring practice. I think there are four or
49:27
Speaker 1: five practices deep now, spring game coming up in a
49:29
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. We'll have all that covered for you
49:31
Speaker 1: as well. So again, thanks for listening. Have a great weekend,
49:35
Speaker 1: Happy Easter to everybody, and we'll talk to you again
49:38
Speaker 1: soon on another episode of podcast on the Break.