Latest / Executive Careers with Fexingo: VP, C-Suite, and Senior Leadership Career Strategy / How Executives Get Referrals Without Asking Directly
Transcript
- Lucas: So there's this CFO I know — let's call her Dana — who was three months into a board seat search. She had the résumé, the operating track record, the whole package. But she was stalled. Every application she filed went into what felt like a black hole. Luna: That's the classic cold-application trap. For someone at her level, you'd think the phone would be ringing. Lucas: You'd think. But the reality is, for senior roles — VP, C-suite, board seats — the decision often happens before the job is even posted. And it's not just about who you know. It's about who's willing to raise their hand for you. Dana was great at maintaining her network, but she never asked the actual question. Luna: You mean 'can you introduce me to X?' — that question. Lucas: Exactly. She told me she felt awkward. Like she'd be imposing. So instead, she'd have coffee with a former colleague, they'd chat about the market, and she'd leave without ever making the ask. The weird thing is, the people she met were happy to help. They just didn't know she needed it. Luna: Because she never said so. There's a real disconnect there — we assume people can read our needs, but they can't. Lucas: Right. And that's the core issue today. How do senior leaders get warm referrals without feeling like they're begging? Because there's a way to do it that feels natural, respectful, and even flattering to the person you're asking. Luna: So what did Dana do — did she figure it out? Lucas: She did, but only after a board mentor of hers pointed out that she was treating referrals like a transaction. She was thinking 'what can this person do for me' instead of 'what can we figure out together.' And that shift changed everything. Luna: Okay, that's a big reframe. Let's get into the tactics — because I bet most of our listeners have been Dana at some point. Lucas: Let's start with why we hesitate. There's a psychological barrier — research on 'the asking gap' shows people consistently underestimate how likely others are to say yes to a direct request. We overestimate how burdensome it feels. For executives, there's an added layer: asking for help can feel like it undermines your authority or competence. Luna: So it's not just awkwardness — it's identity. You're supposed to be the one who has answers. Lucas: Exactly. But here's the thing: when you ask for advice or a referral, you're not exposing weakness. You're actually giving the other person a chance to be generous. And most people like feeling helpful. That's the psychological underpinning. Luna: And the practical side — how do you actually make the ask? Lucas: There's a framework Dana and I talked through, which I've seen work in fundraising and executive search alike. It's a three-step ask. Step one: you ask for advice, not a referral. Step two: you ask for a specific introduction, but framed as a mutual benefit. Step three: you follow up with a small, easy 'ask' that keeps the door open — like feedback on a résumé or a quick intro to a resource. Luna: That's interesting. So the first step is almost like a soft open — you're not asking for anything concrete yet. Lucas: Right. Let's imagine you're talking to a former peer who's now on a board. Instead of saying 'can you introduce me to the nominating committee chair?' you say something like, 'I'm exploring board roles, and I'd love your perspective on how to position my operating experience.' That's step one. It's low pressure, it's flattering, and it opens a conversation. Luna: And that conversation naturally leads to step two? Because now they're invested — they've given you advice, so they're more likely to help further. Lucas: Exactly. That's the commitment-consistency principle — once someone gives you advice, they've psychologically bought into your success. So when you then say, 'I'd really value a conversation with someone on the nominating committee — would you be open to making an introduction?' they're far more likely to say yes. And you're not making a cold ask; you're building on their own advice. Luna: It's like they've got a stake in the outcome. And step three — the follow-up — that's what keeps the relationship alive even if the intro doesn't pan out. Lucas: Precisely. After the conversation, you send a note: 'Thanks for the intro — I had a great chat with Sarah. She suggested I look at the audit committee experience. Would you mind if I sent you my one-page summary for any feedback?' That's a small ask, easy to say yes to, and it keeps you on their radar. It also signals that you're serious and organized. Luna: So the whole thing is structured to make it easy for the other person. That's the key — you're not making them do heavy lifting. Lucas: And that's exactly what Dana did. She started with a former COO she'd worked with at a logistics company. They had coffee, she asked for advice on positioning. He gave her a few insights, then offered to introduce her to a search firm partner. She didn't even have to ask for the intro — he just made it. Luna: That's the ideal scenario. But what if the person doesn't offer? You still have to make the ask. Lucas: Right. And that's where the wording matters. Instead of 'can you introduce me?' which feels transactional, you can say, 'Who else do you think I should be talking to?' That's an open-ended question that invites a referral without a direct demand. And if they hesitate, you can make it even easier: 'If it's not a good fit, no problem at all.' Luna: That's a great line — it gives them an out, so they're not worried about being trapped into a favor. Lucas: And it actually increases the chance they'll say yes, because the perceived pressure drops. People want to help, but they don't want to feel obligated. By giving them an out, you show respect for their time and their network. Luna: Now, we've been talking about referrals when you're actively searching. But I've heard it's even smarter to build the referral network before you need it. Is that the 'your next job is found two years in advance' idea? Lucas: That's a huge part of it. The best time to ask for a referral is when you don't need one. When you're performing well in your current role, you have leverage and you're not desperate. You can ask for advice or introductions in a purely exploratory way — 'I'm curious about how other companies handle X.' That builds reciprocity that pays off later. Luna: So it's like a savings account — you make deposits when you're flush so you can withdraw when you're in need. Lucas: Exactly. And I want to distinguish between referrals and references, because they get conflated. A reference is someone who vouches for you after the fact — they respond to a formal check. A referral is someone who actively advocates for you before you're even considered. They're the ones who say 'you need to meet this person' to a search committee. That's far more powerful. Luna: And that's what gets you into rooms you can't access on your own. Like a board seat or a CEO succession conversation. Lucas: Right. Now, let's talk about the 'no' — because you're going to get them. Dana got a few. One former boss said he didn't know anyone relevant. Another said he'd 'keep an ear out' but never followed up. Luna: How do you handle that without burning the bridge? Lucas: The key is to thank them sincerely and then immediately disengage from the referral ask. You don't push. You don't follow up with 'did you find anyone?' You simply say, 'I appreciate you thinking about it — let's catch up again soon.' Then you move on. The relationship stays intact because you didn't make them feel guilty. Luna: And maybe you just weren't their priority at that moment — not a reflection on you. Lucas: Exactly. And sometimes a no is really a 'not right now.' People get busy, they have their own pressures. By letting it go gracefully, you leave the door open for later. Dana actually had a former CEO say no to an intro in January, then six months later, out of the blue, he introduced her to a board chair at a conference. She'd sent a friendly check-in note in between — nothing pushy, just 'hope you're well.' Luna: That's a good lesson in patience. And in keeping your name in front of people without being annoying. Lucas: It's a fine line, but a gentle touch works. Now, one thing that surprised Dana was that the most effective referrals came from people she hadn't directly asked. Because she followed the three-step process with a few key contacts, those contacts started talking to each other. Her name came up in conversation, and suddenly someone she'd never met was recommending her to a search firm. Luna: So the referrals started to compound. That's the network effect. Lucas: Exactly. And that's the real goal — to create a web of advocates, not just a list of contacts. When you're top of mind for a handful of well-connected people, you become part of the informal conversation about who's ready for the next step. Luna: That's something our listeners can really act on. And it's interesting how this connects to what we were talking about earlier — the idea of building relationships before you need them. It's a long game, but the payoff is huge. Lucas: It is. And you know, that's actually why we keep this podcast ad-free and listener-supported. We've been talking about the power of giving without expecting immediate return — and that's exactly how we think about our relationship with you. We want to share the best career insights we can, and in return, if you've ever found value in an episode like this, you can support us at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. It's a simple way to keep the conversations going. Luna: Yeah, and it truly helps us keep doing what we love. Every little bit makes a difference. Lucas: Back to Dana — after about four months, she got her first board interview. And she told me the conversation wasn't about her résumé at all. The chair had already heard about her from two different people — both referrals she'd cultivated without ever making a direct ask. Luna: That's the dream scenario. So the lesson is: it's not about asking for a referral; it's about building a referral environment. Lucas: That's a perfect way to put it. And as we wrap up, I think the takeaway is to stop thinking of referrals as a favor and start thinking of them as a natural outcome of genuine relationships. If you're genuinely curious about other people's work, and you offer help without expectation, the referrals will come. Luna: And when they do, you'll be ready. Thanks for listening, everyone. Lucas: Until next time.