Latest / The Fourcast / Inside Iran’s protests and the young people “ready to die” for freedom

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Inside Iran’s protests and the young people “ready to die” for freedom · The Fourcast

0:00
Europe should be brave enough to stand up with the people of Iran
0:04
and join the American government to take a strong action and
0:08
allow people of Iran to make decision about their future.
0:12
Really people living in in their safety and luxury in the UK and
0:16
America, in the West and saying that let's Iranian people
0:19
overthrew A regime with guns and bullets, with nuclear weapon,
0:23
with bare hands. You cannot take the belt and
0:27
boot to make someone love you and be content living under your
0:33
protection or under your foot. It's either crown or the turban.
0:40
Hello and welcome to the forecast.
0:42
Iran's foreign minister says that the situation is now under
0:46
total control. All the reports from inside the
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country suggest something very different.
0:51
Human rights groups say that hundreds have been killed, more
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than 10,000 arrested as authorities intensify their
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crackdown on nationwide protests.
1:00
Verifying information remains extremely difficult given the
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near total Internet blackout from the regime.
1:06
Meanwhile, President Trump says that Tehran is ready to
1:09
negotiate with the United States after warning that he is
1:13
considering very strong military action, without going into
1:16
details. In response, Iran has said it is
1:19
ready to for war, but also for dialogue if the United States
1:23
does intervene. So has the violence succeeded in
1:26
silencing the protests or is something else unfolding beneath
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the surface? Today we speak with Marcy
1:32
Alinejad, Iranian American journalist and activist.
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And later on, we'll be joined by Nagis Faizad, senior lecturer in
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Persian Studies at SOAS, to understand what really is
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happening inside Iran. Let's go to you first.
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Marcy, thanks very much for coming on the programme.
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What are you hearing from your contacts on the ground in Iran?
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A massacre is taking place in Iran.
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It is a massacre. When I hear from people who have
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access to starting, I see from their voices, from their
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messages that they are scared while they're witnessing how
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people are getting killed in front of their eyes.
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These are the people that never, I've never seen that being like
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scared and begging for outside help.
2:23
These are the activists that I'm in touch with them.
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They're saying that hour by hour, the number of those who
2:30
have been killed increased. You see the videos that we are
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receiving from people inside Iran that how they put the
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lifeless body of those who have been killed, who have been shot
2:41
in their chest, in their heart, like on the top of each other.
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And they even they, the regime even asked the family members to
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pay money to get the dead body back.
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So I believe that people, they actually say that, not not me.
2:59
People inside Iran say that the regime is like using military
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weapon to control the unrest, which I don't call it unrest
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anymore. This is a revolution.
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So for for millions of people right now, this is a crucial
3:15
moment. If they don't receive any help,
3:17
believe me, from outside Iran, the regime will continue to
3:22
slaughter innocent and unarmed people.
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There have been reports Marcy of doctors in hospitals treating
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dozens if not hundreds of patients, many of them with shot
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wounds to their eyes and to their head.
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No, the the sources inside Iran telling us it's thousands have
3:44
been killed because of Internet blackout, absolutely darkness.
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So verifying and gathering information is not easy.
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But we know that the real number is higher than what we hearing
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from Iran and what people telling us that the IRGC
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members, security forces are targeting people like in their
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heart blinding people because they want to create fear.
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They are actually targeting teenagers because they know that
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teenagers are the one, that they have No Fear.
4:24
Right. So the the government that said
4:25
the regime is saying that actually the numbers of
4:27
protesters has decreased. There's also some of the other
4:31
reports we're getting and that actually the the kind of climate
4:35
of fear and repression for now at least seems to be working to
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some extent. Do you think that's accurate or
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not? It's, it's not accurate, first
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of all, because they have guns and bullets.
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So they even using the masks, all the all the mosques in Iran
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to warn people to announce that if you don't leave the streets
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right now, we shoot you. So they're using all kind of
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military weapons and tools to scare them, to oppress them.
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Even they caught the electricity in Iran to, you know, hide the
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crime and the crowd. But what happened, people used
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the life of their their mobile phone, their cell phone.
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It's beautiful to see how desperately people want the rest
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of the world to see that they are taking to the street to see
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the crowd, to see the determination of these people
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who are willing to end this regime.
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And, and, and let me be very, very clear when it's still some
5:39
media are hesitating to talk about unprecedented uprising in
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Iran. What do you expect?
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What do you expect when you see that some some some like leaders
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of free world still hesitating to talk about the demand of
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Iranians because President Trump said that he's going to kill the
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one killing innocent protesters. So the leaders, the UK Prime
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Minister, President Macron, like the leaders of free world, are
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absolutely quiet. So of course that is going to
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help Iranian regime to control the uprising inside the country.
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But the people inside the country won't necessarily hear
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what the likes of Macron or Starmer are not saying, right?
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They, I mean, if there's an Internet blackout, what to what,
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to what extent do they even know what's going on outside in the
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rest of the world regarding their revolution?
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That's a good point. But let me tell you something,
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thanks to Elon Musk, now many activists and dissidents have
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access to social media, to Internet, and they are the one
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that mobilizing the gathering. So we thankfully are able to
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communicate with people inside Iran.
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And more important than this, whether they hear or not, the
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leaders of free world should do the right thing.
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The history will judge them. People are being trapped like we
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are, like the East Germany in Iran.
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Yes, maybe not the entire the whole population can hear what
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President Macron and Prime Minister Kerry Summers says, but
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they have the duty to take actions.
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If they take actions, then people see it.
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Okay. By targeting.
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By targeting those who order massacre, By targeting the
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members of Revolutionary Guards, killing them.
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This is a war. This is a war, my brother.
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The Islamic Republic waged a war against innocent people.
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Enough of the statements. I don't mean that Prime Minister
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of the UK or leaders of Germany, leaders of France and Free
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World, G7 leaders to make a statement.
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Enough of empty words and condemnations.
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Doesn't save lives, OK? I mean actions.
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Right. But there's, you know, there are
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also sanctions in place from, you know, European countries as
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well as calls from the United States.
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And we know that President Trump is kind of toying with the idea
8:05
of military intervention. Are you saying that you would
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like to see the likes of Britain and France or Germany get
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involved militarily on the side of the Iranian people right now?
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It's. Not the West intervening or
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using military weapons against innocent people.
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It is the Islamic Republic that invaded Iran.
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I don't really understand. When I saw the UK Prime Minister
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was quite like trying to stay away from President Trump's
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action against Maduro's regime, I was like, you have to see the
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people of Venezuela celebrating the arrest of Maduro.
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Why? Because he was not a president,
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a legitimate president. He is a criminal is the same
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scenario. Economy is a terrorist.
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Right. But Marcy, you know, the same
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people who applauded what President Trump was doing in
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Venezuela, including many, many Venezuelans, were then very
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upset that actually they took Madura out of the country and
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they're putting him on trial. But the rest of the regime in
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Caracas is still very much in place.
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Are you afraid? Are you afraid?
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Are your colleagues afraid who are activists that the same
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thing could happen here, that Khamenei, the supreme leader,
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could disappear either because he's very old or because someone
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nabs him or, you know, and and then the regime stays in place.
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All those structures that have spent so many years entrenching
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themselves in Iran will carry on regardless.
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That is why I strongly believe that the Europe should be brave
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enough to stand up with the people of Iran and join the
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American government to take a strong action and allow people
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of Iran to make decision about their future.
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What we want is very clear, fair and free election.
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But now the immediate hub, the urgent hub is absolutely clear
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with the what happening in Iran. The immediate reaction should be
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helping the people of Iran to yeah, to just stop the killing,
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stop the killing. I don't think this is this, this
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is too much to ask, but how the killing me military action
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against the Revolutionary Guard base, military action against
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Ali Khamenei. This is the dream of millions of
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people to see Ali Khamenei being captured and we want to see him
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in international court. And I'm telling you, this is not
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called intervention. This is Ali Khamenei actually
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sending killers here in United States of America to get rid of
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U.S. officials. I myself survived 3 fascination
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plots. What do you expect me negotiate
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with that economy? Of course I want to get rid of
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him. This is the government sending
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killers on the UK soil. They targeted UK citizens on UK
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soil. Transnational repression is a
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tool in the hand of this regime. So what?
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I expect the Europeans to be brave enough take action against
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a terrorist regime. Why the UK government do not
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designate Revolutionary Guards, as I know, as a terrorist
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organization? Why is that too much to ask for
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Prime Minister of the UK to join the G7 leaders and take action
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right now? If you don't want to do military
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action, at least name them. Who they are, let me ask.
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Terrorist organization. Let me ask you something else.
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So during the so-called 12 Day war last June, when, you know,
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Israel and Iran had this ballistic, nuclear ballistic
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missile exchange, the Americans got involved very briefly, I am
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told. And correct me if I'm wrong, but
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I'm told that on the streets of Tehran, they didn't, you know,
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people who hated the regime did not like the idea that Israel
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was trying to somehow weaken that regime with American help.
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They would much rather do it themselves.
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So actually, that was slightly counterproductive.
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Is that true? Look, of course we want to do it
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by ourselves. Of course we want to overthrow
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the regime by ourselves and with our own hand.
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But really, really people living in in their safety and luxury
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freedom in in the in in the UK and America in the West and
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saying that let's Iranian people overthrew A regime with guns and
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bullets with nuclear weapon with bare hand is that real thing
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that you demand Iranians who said that people with empty hand
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can overthrew A regime that target the US officials on US
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soil. The UK citizen on more than 500,
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more than 500 non Iranians and Iranians were the target of the
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same regime whether being assassinated or kidnapped beyond
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the Islamic Republic. But I think.
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There is a but I think there is a, there is a nuanced opinion
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there, isn't there? I mean, I, I myself spoke when I
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was presenting this program from Tel Aviv.
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I spoke to quite a few Iranians inside Iran during that war who
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said we don't like this regime, we really want them, you know,
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rid, but we don't want the Americans or the Israelis to do
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it for us. We have to do this ourselves,
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even if it involves waiting a few more months or years.
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That's. No, now you're saying, even now
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people are saying even if it involves another massacre in
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bloody November, in bloody November, they shut down the
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Internet. 1500 innocent protesters got killed.
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What happened? They couldn't overthrow the
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regime with bare hand, empty hands.
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And 2022 people took to the street when massage, you know, I
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mean, he was killed for the crime of simply showing a bit of
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air. Like listen, this herd got her
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killed and immediately women took to the street, shoulder to
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shoulder with their brothers, chomping against the entire
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regime. This time 700 people got killed,
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20,000 people got arrested. So now again people took back to
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the street. I am telling you, in 47 years,
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six major uprising took place in Iran.
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All of them faced massacre. So regime change, it is not
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being it's, it's not being imposed on us Iranian people by
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the Israeli government or the US government at all.
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This is the demand of people who took to the street in six major
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uprising but they faced massacre.
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So basically we did everything, we tried everything.
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We even voted for so-called reformist having the hope of
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reforming this regime. We even took to this street and
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we got faced guns and bullets. So we tried everything, we tried
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negotiation with this regime. So now the time has come to
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treat this regime as a terrorist organization and help these
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people to get rid of the Islamic Republic.
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And believe me, and Iran without Islamic Republic is not just a
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help to people of Iran. You are protecting democracy,
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you're protecting your own value.
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So we are actually guaranteeing global security because the
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Islamic Republic is the biggest sponsor of terrorism, is the
15:20
biggest threat to the Western values and to the region and to
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its own people. I mean, you mentioned all these
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other, you know, uprisings, protests, revolutions against
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the regime that have failed. What makes you think that this
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time round, you know, and it does seem to be more brutal in
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its response than previous ones, even though they were bad as
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well. What makes you think that this
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time round could be different? I strongly believe the fear is
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gone. The fear is gone.
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It is not a protest anymore. It is a revolution.
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And people say it loud when they say that we are ready when they
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open their arms and they say shoot us, but we're not going
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back home. It is a revolution, but I never
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say that these people can win without the help of the free
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world. And I want to say, I want to
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talk directly to the leaders of free world that this is not a
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charity to help unarmed people to bring down a terrorist
16:21
regime. Be united the way that dictators
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are united. Unfortunately, Putin, Maduro,
16:29
Harmony, China, they are more united than the G7 leaders.
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If let's imagine the crowds do go home because they are too
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frightened. Even though they hate this
16:40
regime, they don't want to die on the streets.
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If that were to happen, what happens then?
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Look people, they say that they are ready to die for the cause
16:52
for bringing Islamic Republic down.
16:54
I am ready to die for the same 'cause this is the true voice of
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Iranian that you hear from all over the sea, like across Iran,
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more than a more than 100 cities.
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You hear that people say we are ready to die to get rid of one
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of the most barbaric Islamist terrorist regime.
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Where is Kyra Starmer, where is President Macron, where is
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Europe, where is G7 leaders? That should be your question.
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You should not ask us unarmed people, me surviving 3
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assassination plus Hey Massey, how if you get scared?
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And of course I'm scared, but the time has come to overcome
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our view and make brave decision.
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My brother, my heart is, my heart is broke when I get
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bombarded by videos of people in Iran saying to me that they're
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going to the streets and they're not sure whether they're going
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to come come back or not. And when I go to the media, they
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ask me, oh, no, Oh my God, you're asking the President
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Trump. I'm not.
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I'm not asking them. This is their duty.
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This is the duty of free world to take action when a terrorist
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regime targeting unarmed people. And I want to tell you, I don't
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know what's going to even happen to me.
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I'm not sure what's going to happen to my family because I'm
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not in touch with them. No landline, no cell phone, no
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Internet. But I know the history will
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judge those leaders who had the opportunity to take action
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against Ali Khamenei and his gang of killer.
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But they decided to keep silent at least at least the Europe.
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If you don't want to do military action, let President Trump do
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the difficult part of your job, but kick out the Islamic
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Republic diplomats from your own soil.
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They should not have the privilege of diplomacy.
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They should not injury freedom on your soil.
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While my brothers and sisters getting killed in Iran, why
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their relative and children walking freely in the UK, why
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they are enjoying freedom in America?
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Why my brothers and sisters getting killed in Iran?
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So for us, we don't ask you to help us.
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We ask you to stand up and do the brave thing when it comes to
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end terrorism. That's it.
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So simple all. Right, I hear your passion.
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We're going to leave it there. Marci Alinejad, thank you very
19:20
much indeed for your time. Well, let's turn down to Nargis
19:23
Fazad, who's a senior lecturer in Persian studies at SOAS.
19:27
Nargis, it's great to have you on the podcast.
19:29
I mean, you know what we just heard there from Marci Alinejad?
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What we've seen as much as we can see, anything at all is
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deeply, deeply upsetting. Put this into some kind of
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context because we know there've been waves of protests, waves of
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rage, you know, temptations at revolution before, but they all
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seem to have failed. Is this going to be any
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different? You know, I think it feels like
19:55
just hacking away as a rather nasty, toxic, nefarious enemy.
20:02
If you like this revolution, this uprising may not be the
20:09
final one, but I think you know every single one will.
20:14
Just remind people that you cannot rule over the whole, you
20:20
know, caged birds. These are young people who have
20:24
aspirations, who look at their neighboring countries.
20:28
They're really not asking for very much.
20:30
They're incredibly patriotic, that many of them are spiritual.
20:35
They just want a tiny bit, an iota of freedom.
20:40
Right. And one thing that also struck
20:42
me about these protests, and again, there's always the caveat
20:45
that we're not getting the full picture because of the Internet
20:48
block out. But but some things are getting
20:50
through and mosques being burnt down for the first time.
20:53
So the rage from the street being directed not just at the
20:57
regime and the clerics who represented, but but you know,
21:00
Islam itself, if you like. Is that new?
21:03
These mosques are not sanctuaries for the abuse for
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the fleeing young unarmed people as romantically one might
21:12
assume. Many of them are little depots,
21:16
places that harbour, you know, supporters of the state and I
21:21
don't mean a farmer supporter of the state.
21:25
I think I would never pretend that out of a 90 million
21:29
population of Iran, every single one of predominant majority is
21:34
against a clerical regime. But the the mosques that they
21:39
burn are associated. Of course one may go off, you
21:43
know, accidentally, but often they are symbols of oppression.
21:47
You know, Iranians are very proud of their levels of
21:49
education. You know, the highest number of
21:51
pH DS in in the Middle East. You know, lots of great
21:54
universities. You know, it is a highly
21:56
educated, highly literate, highly and eloquent population
22:01
that I guess feels now that, you know, they've run out of Rd.,
22:05
that that they want to be treated with a degree of
22:07
dignity. And I just wonder whether these
22:09
protests, which are both economic and social and
22:12
political, all the streams that were there before and all the
22:15
previous bouts of unrest have finally come together.
22:20
And also don't forget that despite all the restrictions,
22:24
they are not unaware of what goes on in the rest of the
22:27
world. They travel, they go to Dubai,
22:29
they go to Qatar, they go to Turkey often, you know, they go
22:32
to Central Asia and they see that the same age group, their
22:36
peers, how they are progressing, what they have and they have
22:40
been held back. And goodness knows where Iran
22:44
would have been had the young entrepreneurs.
22:47
How these amazing young people that you who have just listed
22:52
could have just had a tiny bit of ability to move on without
22:57
being, you know, oppressed, held back by sanctions, etcetera,
23:01
that never harm the top echelons.
23:03
It always gets the guy in the street and their own who just do
23:07
not allow them a tiny bit of space to breathe.
23:11
They and of course this is, you know, perhaps it's easier to
23:15
rule over a mass of uneducated ignored the unconnected
23:22
population. It's very hard to you know, you
23:26
have these young people who have nuclear ambitions.
23:30
The fact that Iranians that join all these mass Olympiads, you
23:35
know, gold medal after gold medal after gold medal, all of
23:38
those happen. But then when you punish them,
23:42
when you summon, when you, you know, when you punish and you
23:47
jail a human rights activist, you add corporal punishment on
23:53
that, you know, beating, public lashing.
23:56
This is what the Iranians have had enough of.
24:00
They don't want to run away. They're not going to, oh, you
24:03
know, millions of them want to go and live anywhere else.
24:05
No, they have paradise at home. But the doors of this paradise,
24:11
or even just a different veranda of this paradise is not open to
24:15
them. And I mean, it really struck me
24:17
also that just before the latest bout of unrest, there were
24:21
scenes of kind of relative liberty on the streets of
24:24
Tehran, especially, you know, people dancing, women not
24:27
wearing their hijab. They had sort of pop up music
24:29
bands. And, you know, whoever put the
24:31
stuff on the Internet was saying, look, this is what life
24:34
can look like. And it struck me that after the
24:37
the protest triggered by the by the killing, the murder of Mossa
24:41
Amini a few years ago, Mossa Amini a few years ago, that the
24:44
regime kind of loosened the reins after the initial
24:46
repression a little bit. And of course, one of the
24:51
reports has been that in recent weeks, again, the regime tried
24:54
to be slightly more reformist. And then the protesters saw a
24:58
weakness here. And being fed up, they took more
25:01
than the regime thought they should take.
25:03
And now we have this brutal response.
25:06
I was saying my question is the lesson for the regime that the
25:09
only thing that really works is total brutality.
25:13
And I think they certainly tried that.
25:14
You see, it's a little bit of give and take.
25:16
The regime is continuously does this cost benefit analysis to
25:20
see just let them have a tiny little bit of breathing space.
25:24
And because the biggest force at the moment of discontent is the
25:30
financial pressure, the fact that, you know, you go to a
25:33
supermarket and by the time you've picked something off the
25:36
shelf at one quoted price, by the time you get to the till,
25:39
the price has changed. It's seriously that bad.
25:42
So they they sort of decide, OK, let's pick and choose.
25:45
Let's give them a tiny little bit of freedom.
25:48
And it is controlled. I mean, you know, these Iranian
25:51
girls haven't suddenly all started, you know, rollerblading
25:54
in their bikinis. It is measured.
25:57
So they do this because they're not fools.
26:01
You know, they do have to keep this massive population content
26:05
somehow. But their whole country, it's
26:08
been a perfect storm for these young people.
26:12
And not just young for all those who really had it up to here,
26:16
it's a perfect storm of the financial pressure and serious
26:21
financial pressure. I mean, the wealthy people are
26:24
beginning to feel the pinch, never mind those who are, you
26:27
know, living in hobbles and in the, you know, cardboard cities
26:32
and the fact that suddenly they thought maybe the world is
26:36
changing. Maybe when you know what's
26:39
happened in Venezuela, elsewhere, maybe they thought
26:43
they could, they could just ride this wave.
26:47
But the regime is not going to give up.
26:50
They are not going to give up. So if they prevail, and of
26:53
course, the regime is claiming that, you know, they're, they're
26:57
in charge, the streets are under control, the crowds are, are
27:00
diminishing, which is something that my previous speaker has
27:03
denied is taking place. But if, if they're right, what
27:07
happens to Iranians? What happens to your friends and
27:10
families still in Iran after all these people have been killed
27:13
and locked up and executed? I think it will just thicken the
27:18
file of grievances and it it will, you know, one day it could
27:24
explode in a far more alarming way.
27:29
But at the moment, of course you cannot.
27:31
I mean, you know, these young people are made of flesh and
27:33
blood and how many evenings can they come and face live bullets
27:39
and plastic bullets and brutality.
27:41
So you don't. Think this is it.
27:43
I, I, I don't think this, I think, I think though it will
27:46
subside a little. They will probably, they're
27:49
exhausted, but it's not going to go away.
27:53
I don't think it has diminished, but maybe those, but how long
27:58
can you have 10s of thousands pour into the streets.
28:02
They have to live. They have to go home.
28:05
And don't forget they have parents who might say, I can't
28:08
bear, I have lost, you know, two children already.
28:11
I'm not going to let you go out. You know, they just it might
28:16
subside. It's not going to go away.
28:19
You, as I said, you, you cannot take the belt and boot to make
28:25
someone love you and be content living under your protection or
28:30
under your rule It it will happen.
28:33
The danger, of course, is if there is, you know, somehow a
28:39
signal is sent to Iran now, you know, the sense of negotiations.
28:43
Iran always loves that because it will buy it time.
28:46
It will just allow it to clamp down further, identify, execute
28:51
more and, you know, frighten them.
28:55
But it's not going to go back. You cannot have paid eagles and
29:00
caged tigers. So, you know, my previous
29:03
speaker, Marcia Alinejad said, you know, she was very
29:06
outspoken. She said Keir Starmer, Emmanuel
29:09
Macron, you know, Donald Trump, you got to do something.
29:13
Now, enough of the statements. You can't sit on the sidelines.
29:16
And we know that Trump has been toying with the idea of
29:19
intervening, but also toying with the idea of negotiations.
29:22
So in terms of what we any sense you can make from the
29:26
international contribution to all this, is that helping the
29:29
protests or not? I think what is very dangerous
29:33
is to dangle this carriage in front of them and give them hope
29:37
and then end up the. Character of intervention.
29:39
Exactly. And then not do anything about
29:42
it and then negotiate. Of course, you know, we're not
29:44
fools. Of course, you know, British
29:47
foreign policy or US or France is not.
29:50
They might like Persian poetry and all the films in our
29:53
festivals, but they have their own interests to look at it.
29:56
What's interesting is in Iran, there have been a few blogs
30:00
coming out talking about, you know, addressing President Trump
30:04
and saying you're about to celebrate 250th anniversary
30:08
independence. Remember who helped you, think
30:11
of the friend who helped you. I think Lafayette today, keep
30:14
it. I'm not very good on my American
30:17
history, but this day I'm saying, you know, there is his
30:20
statue. Don't forget that big pictures,
30:23
You know, you overthrew the rule of the mightiest empire of the
30:27
time with help of outsiders. However, it is dangerous,
30:34
external. I'm trying to think in my
30:36
lifetime I was thinking what's happened?
30:38
Was it Uganda? Was it Kosovo?
30:41
I can't think of other nations where foreign intervention
30:45
helped and Kosovo still lingers. So I'm, I'm still confused and
30:50
maybe you can help me. Last June, the 12 day war,
30:53
right? So the Americans get involved on
30:56
the side of the Israelis. They take out these nuclear
30:58
facilities. There's a lot of debate about
31:00
how effective that was. And I spoke to lots of Iranians
31:03
inside Iran on my program who were telling me we don't want
31:06
the Americans to intervene, we will do this ourselves.
31:09
And then the other Iranians who told me, no, we do want the
31:12
Americans to intervene because we can't do it ourselves.
31:15
So which is true? Well, you know, it's very
31:18
interesting what Israel did with support of US cover.
31:23
They took out this military figures who could have the next
31:27
stage could be a military coup. The IRGC might think right,
31:31
we'll just wait. I told how many is not going to
31:33
live forever. It's also they took out some of
31:36
the people as President Trump himself in previous term office
31:40
took out Qasem Soleimani, the one man that many Iranians
31:44
thought and. It made it made very little
31:45
difference. But it well, no, but I think
31:49
perhaps a military intervention like that might also help others
31:54
who we might think as ally. I'm not sure how happy Turkey or
31:59
Pakistan or other or even, you know, other countries in the
32:04
Persian Gulf would be for a military ruler in Iran who will
32:09
who might show an olive branch to the people saying wear
32:14
whatever you want. Have your entrepreneurial
32:16
businesses as you want and this is, you know, we will rebuild
32:19
you, we will rescue. That might be a worse transition
32:23
for some. But then again, you and I lived
32:26
in a time when Greece had the military ruler a Portugal had.
32:31
We don't even think about it. But the danger is Iranians are
32:35
so suspicious, suspicious of external why they think, OK,
32:40
this momentarily gave them reprieve from these nasty
32:45
military figures. But why did they do that?
32:49
Was it because they had ambitions of their own and it's
32:53
better to have a clerical Iran than a military ruled Iran?
32:59
Right. Which brings me to comparisons
33:01
with the Shah and the revolution against him.
33:03
And I want to ask you about the Shah Sun in a minute.
33:05
But first of all, the revolution in 7879.
33:08
How different was that to what we might be seeing right now?
33:13
The main difference was that the people were quite comfortable.
33:17
They had good lives, you know, while Wilson was here and three
33:21
days, I mean, all those Iran had its Petro dollars and all was
33:25
good. There was this flirtation with
33:28
the left that Iran is still sort of rather obsessed with and the
33:34
the rhetoric of, you know, the clerics.
33:38
So I said they do know, they have their finger on the pulse
33:41
of Iranians. So that that in a way was a
33:45
middle class intellectual supported by some of the other
33:51
groups like the IRA, like the PLO, those days when they were
33:56
Popular Front for the liberation of Palestine.
33:58
They were not, you know, Islamist Palestinian movements,
34:02
the Red Brigade and so on and so forth.
34:04
And this momentum builds that no, you know, monarchy is not
34:09
it. We need to move on from this.
34:10
So that was and of course the figure of Khomeini and don't get
34:17
there was external support. I mean France and Britain and
34:21
all and Jimmy Carter, I mean he did US no favours.
34:24
So all of this, it's a different situation.
34:30
In 1978, Iranian passport was probably better than what a
34:34
Norwegian passport is now. You go anywhere without a visa,
34:37
the money you could spend but. And it was beginning to change,
34:42
is beginning to progress now it is you are they are fighting
34:47
with their hands tied behind their right.
34:50
OK. It is different.
34:52
And Iran is a much bigger country.
34:54
It has many more existential threats.
34:58
Environment. I mean, water, My goodness.
35:01
Yeah, it is. Never mind.
35:04
You know, the ayatollahs being the end of us running out of
35:07
water would be the end of half the population.
35:10
You know all those are there. It's very different.
35:13
As for the Shah son, I think of good this is this has been so
35:20
hard for a lot of Iranians. You know, it's sort of really
35:23
split up all these groups. The fact is he has brand
35:27
recognition. He himself is not lived in Iran.
35:31
He's not been a political activist throughout his years of
35:36
exile, but he has brand recognition and he Hawks back to
35:41
the times when we were no less than Turkey, but no less.
35:46
But do people want to see him in charge?
35:48
Do they just are? They cling to his name because
35:51
he is the only name out there, because there's no other leader
35:53
of the opposition. The catalyst for change, he is
35:56
not going to rule Iran. Iran is not going to vote for
36:01
monarchy, even though that we are forever ruled.
36:04
I mean, we cannot forget it's either crown or the turban.
36:09
It is always been that, you know, dynamic forever for 5000
36:13
years in Iran. So, but I don't think so because
36:16
they, I mean, what's he going to do?
36:17
He goes even if he turns up Tehran tomorrow, he won't even
36:21
be able to find out where a house that he grew up in is a
36:24
palace he grew up in. So it's but he has somehow given
36:30
given a ray of hope that it is possible, but he's not going to
36:36
be able to do it on his own. And now I guess far as that,
36:40
that was fascinating and I'm sure we'll speak again.
36:41
I wish you all the best. Thank you very much.
36:43
Thank you very much for having me.
36:45
Thanks for joining the forecast. And that's it from the forecast.
36:48
This is a running story. It is an important story.
36:51
We will continue to cover it. Thanks very much.