Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / STA212: 'Exercise Prescription: Why Communication Matters' with Andrew McCauley & Andy Hosgood

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STA212: 'Exercise Prescription: Why Communication Matters' with Andrew McCauley & Andy Hosgood · The STA Clinician Podcast

• 0:00
  You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, putting evidence
• 0:04
  back into soft tissue therapy.
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  Music.
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  And we're live long Welcome to the Sports Therapy Association podcast,
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  episode 212. My name is Matt Phillips, creator of RunChatLive.com.
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  And as always, this episode is being recorded live on the Sports Therapy Association
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  YouTube channel and also Facebook.
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  Very shortly in this episode, entitled Exercise Prescription,
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  Why Communication Matters, I will be joined by two special guests,
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  founder of ProCare Sports Medicine, Andrew McCauley, and educator,
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  facilitator and coach, Andy Hosgood.
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  Both of these fantastic educators will be presenting in the STA Theatre at Therapy
• 0:53
  Expo this coming 27th and 28th of November with Andrew McCauley on day one.
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  I should bring this up for those of you joining us live. You like a little bit
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  of images on the screen, so I'll bring this up for you.
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  Andrew McCauley will be with us at 11.40am on day one, so that's November 27th,
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  giving a Q&A session on exercise dosage in clinical practice.
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  And then Andy Hosgood will will be with us at 11.40am on day two.
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  I've kept it simple for them for reasons you understand once I bring them up.
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  11.40am, one on day one, one on day two. With a Q&A session,
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  Andy Hosgood will be talking about client retention, the superpower for business growth.
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  Just to remind you, this year at Therapy Expo, a lot of the sessions in the
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  STA Theatre will be Q&A based because of the feedback we've had.
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  We listen to you and react accordingly.
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  And you guys did really enjoy that interaction with the speaker.
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  A lot of the people we've got are speaking in the main theatres,
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  which you can go and see as well if you want to, and then get extra information
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  in the Q&A sessions in the STO Theatre.
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  Or if you can't manage to get to the main theatre, then the speakers realise
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  that not everyone would have gone there, and they will be giving you enough
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  information to turn into a fantastic Q&A session on their topic.
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  So very much looking forward to seeing how that goes this November.
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  I will be nagging you each week because it's one of the things which we've got
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  in our notes of things to do.
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  A lot of people leave at the last minute, it they haven't enough money they have
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  an organized clinic in their absence they haven't sought accommodation etc
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  etc so you now got 11 weeks left people it sounds
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  so not a lot of time when we
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  say that 11 weeks so do try and make sure you've got a ticket remember there's
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  an STA discount throughout if you're struggling to find a price that suits you
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  then join the STA I guarantee without saying the price out loud you will save
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  more money by joining the STA and getting the discount than trying to find a
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  cheaper ticket elsewhere and you'll get the benefit of being a member of the STA.
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  So that's an option for you. And sort out travel.
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  If you're umming and ahhing about two days, try and do it.
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  Just try and do it. Sort out accommodation somewhere. Maybe B&Bs.
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  Oh, B&Bs was the modern thing. B&Bs were in the 1990s.
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  B&B, that's what I'm talking about. Try and sort that out. There's some great
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  options around, especially if you're travelling out with other people.
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  So do try and stay for two days, if you can.
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  Anyway, before I do bring up Andrew and Andy, I must thank last week's guests.
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  I always say fantastic show last week, you need to watch it,
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  but it really was so inspirational.
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  As you can see, if you're joining us in YouTube Live or Facebook on the screen
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  here, I was joined in episode 211 with Armed Forces veterans,
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  Rich Potter and Richard Dickey Davis.
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  Who in just a few weeks literally in about three
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  or four weeks are about to embark on their incredible limitless expedition
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  challenge conquering the himalayas which
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  is basically they're doing a snowman trek in bhutan to showcase
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  the incredible capabilities of amputees and
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  to raise vital funds for the royal british legion and blesma
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  the limbless veterans charity obviously with
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  a topic like that it's it's super emotional fueled and we
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  talk about within their birth discuss how they
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  got into the situation of being limbless both
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  of them are limbless on one of the legs and and
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  how it affected their lives and now why they're trying to turn things around and
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  they talk about the Invictus Games and indeed we talked to Carla
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  Bickerstaff and Jenny Lane who are both involved in
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  preparing which is either for the challenge or certainly
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  Invictus Games which in case you don't know is an international multi-sport event
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  first held in 2014 for wounded injured
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  and sick servicemen and women both serving and veterans
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  if you do fancy showing some
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  support and there's plenty of amazing causes out
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  there and it's really difficult to pick but i would encourage you
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  to have a little think of this just go along to just do a google search for
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  just giving either rich potter or richard davis and you should come to one of
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  their pages and you'll see all the details about it rich potter is raising money
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  for blesma like i say and then rich davis is raising money for the Royal British Legion.
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  It doesn't matter who you give
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  generously to, just try and give something to both of them if you can.
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  And as always, a little bit from loads of people can make all the difference.
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  It's a fantastic course.
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  So there you go. That was last week's episode, available as always on YouTube
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  if you want to watch the video or else your favourite podcast app.
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  Or if you like, you can go to the STA.co.uk webpage and you can either listen to it or watch it there.
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  There we go. right i've left them down in
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  the dungeons for long enough i'm really excited to bring up two fantastic educators
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  from our injury so from our industry so injury that was a little bit of from
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  our industry all about injury so let me bring up now for episode 212 exercise
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  prescription why communication matters with special guests andrew mccauley and andy hoskett.
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  Music.
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  Andy and Andrew, how are you doing? Hello. Good evening.
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  I forgot to say, if you are joining us live, people, then do ask questions away.
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  Both Andy and Andrew are welcome to spot good questions in the comments and
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  say, oh, Matt, hold on a second.
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  There's a really good question there from Nicky Mansfield, for example.
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  Nicky, you've joined us live. Thanks for joining us. Nicky says, hey, Groovers.
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  My name's Andy. Can I still come in? Exactly.
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  I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw that. Of course you can,
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  Nicky. Of course you can.
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  And also Sir Glenn Murphy, MBE. I love saying that out loud.
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  It's just the way we roll in this podcast sir glenn murphy mbe
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  says quite like calling you andy nicky i think it works hi
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  all fantastic and indeed anyone who's joined us live do
• 6:21
  feel free to ask questions and if you listen to the podcast and you
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  like the idea of joining us live so you can ask our guest questions and all
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  you got to do like i say is go along to either youtube or facebook at eight
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  o'clock on a tuesday normally and that's it you'll find the link and you could
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  be here too right then andrew mccauley and andy hosgan how are you both i'm very well thank you
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  yeah good to see you and actually i'm waiting in
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  my turn i'm waiting my turn it's interesting to see like the effort because
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  you're both very i've met you both in person it's fantastic but you're both
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  very strong alpha males so it's going to be interesting to date who kind of
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  leaves the other one it's kind
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  of yeah all right and he's not very good at close combat so it's you know.
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  You have both been on the show before which is fantastic but we i will mention
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  those as and when When I talk to you, but for people who don't know you,
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  who listen to podcasts, which always I always say, I hope there are of our 2000
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  or downloads that some people don't know, because that'd be a big waste of time, wouldn't it?
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  Maybe Andrew McCauley, could you give us a little idea of who you are and how
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  you've got to be doing what you're doing today?
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  Yeah no problem and Andrew physio by
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  by by trade if you like but I would call
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  myself a coach probably then a physio background in
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  in kind of like sports science physio sports medicine
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  and then I work across the NHS as a
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  hip knee and shoulder ESP and then in private practice here
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  in Cornwall and then I also do a course
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  or run a course called Unraveling Strength and condition for therapists
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  which across all therapists which looks at it's
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  i suppose it's a communication and exercise prescription course breaking
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  down what we're going to talk about maybe later on and then
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  soon to be podcaster we take on you
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  matt oh take me on someone needs to
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  show you what to do here so hopefully we'll
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  talk about that later but yeah that's that's that's what i like doing oh
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  for sure and i'm looking forward to talking about that and the guests you're going
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  to to have on it so yeah you work uh you've been on the show before for
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  listeners who are interested andrew was on the show in january it
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  was earlier this year beginning of the year optimizing communication with clients
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  and health professionals which is a great show i'm available obviously on all
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  podcast apps and youtube and also you in the sda theater last therapy expo 2023
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  was why does measuring force matter in rehab which was a fantastic presentation and i've said it a few.
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  Times on the show i don't think i'd actually met you or
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  heard much about you which isn't an insult it's just actually a
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  wonderful thing because that's what therapy expo does it's just interesting to
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  people yeah you know which is great and i was just blown
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  away and it was a fantastic presentation and of course we had people like angie
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  physio angie jackson in common as well who's there helping you and and i still
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  remember the opening slide of um i think it was a guy with something hanging
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  from his appendage so i really thought yeah this is a speaker i need to follow
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  so So it's good to have you back on the show.
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  Let's talk about as we got you here then now let's come back let's leave that
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  hook there for the podcast let's leave that listeners there let's go over to
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  andy first of all andy hosgood you've actually been on the show three times
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  this is your fourth time now mate.
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  Doesn't feel like that does it um i don't
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  know does it to me it doesn't you know i think
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  you're up there in like the top people have been on the show enough loads of
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  times now you'd make quite a good opening guest
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  on a podcast you know if anyone was going to start off
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  a podcast you'd be quite a good opening guest yeah you were with us
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  let's think you were this episode 62 which
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  is so long ago that was 2021 and that was
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  with the wonderful jemma oliver we were talking about integration
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  of sports therapist into physio roles which was i'm so
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  proud to say we were talking about that three years
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  ago because it's a i think one of
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  the things we were talking about therapy expert this year is the msk conference for
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  example is open now healthcare perfection people can
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  move from one to the other so it really is much more multidisciplinary which
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  i know is something i think you two have championed for years and finally it's
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  kind of happening now at therapy expo which is really exciting thanks to
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  people like you and then you were here june 22 but which
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  was how to optimize client experience again with jemma how is jemma by the way
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  she hasn't been on the show for a while jemma as well good yeah she's very good
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  yeah working hard i'm sure i do follow i'll have to get back on the show as
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  well and you also here in november 23 last year how to make sure therapy expo
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  helps your business which was a great episode as well a lot of people great.
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  Feedback on that so and you presented in the sda theater
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  last year with how to elevate your client experience to ensure success
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  so quite a cv there is involved with the sda some people know you with regards
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  to co-founder of elevate your clinic which is something which i know a lot of
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  our members actually use in terms of mentorship and help them improve their
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  business that's kind of involved isn't it you've got an interesting new project
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  coming up which i'm interested to hear about.
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  Yeah, I mean, the evolution of it is simply because I think one of the things
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  that's been working very closely with business owners, you know,
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  for the last 10 years in that kind of like, I'm just saying that more of that coaching role.
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  You know, as a physio by background and a business owner for 20 years,
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  you kind of transitioned into that.
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  That and one of the things that became more and more apparent was
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  the importance of optimizing and finding
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  the super of the business owner so that the whole idea is
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  really to focus down on you know how does the business owner you know unlock
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  their own potential and superpower and then how does that because that integrates
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  then doesn't it into creating a good business and then integrating a good team
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  but it always starts with them and i think a lot of a lot of the focus we
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  always spent a lot of time was on the business where actually i think
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  what we probably didn't always evaluate was the business owner
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  themselves so that's the project really really focusing on
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  the actual owner and making sure that they are healthy
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  while running the business which i think is massive massively important as
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  well sounds very exciting and it's something which on
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  the show we say time and time again i think therapists are slowly
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  realizing when it comes to cpd don't just
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  choose something else you can do with your hands you can do it if you want to you feel you
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  need to add something but look at business skills look at
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  that side of thing which traditionally i think particularly soft tissue
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  therapists have kind of ignored they just think if they fix enough people as
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  well as possible then people are going to be queuing up but it is a business
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  at the end of the day and you don't learn these skills on courses do you you
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  don't normally learn these you need people like yourself to actually shine and
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  help people along with their businesses so i just want to bring a screenshot
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  for people who joined us live so yeah there's the exciting artwork for it.
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  Unlock with andy hosgood very nice i can see it
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  down there with the end it's very cool and so if you do go to andyhosgood.co.uk
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  you can see there there's an email if you're interested hello andyhosgood.co.uk
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  but also you're quite active i mean started instagram as well now so give those
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  details out later on but yeah exciting project man looking forward to seeing it progress.
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  As just as well matt on that if you don't mind me saying and
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  because i've had first hand of what andy's what what
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  andy does and yeah like it can
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  be an uncomfortable decision to make to bring somebody in and be vulnerable
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  especially around your business but it's hands down the number one thing you
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  should do before starting a business or in the middle of running a business
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  it will and that i suppose that's
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  what i again big enough bandy because i don't like to do that too much,
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  but that takes a skill that's very rare to find.
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  And whether it's just because you have to find a counselor or a coach,
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  you find the right one, and the next thing, you can feel vulnerable,
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  especially around a business which you've built, and you don't want to seem
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  stupid, and you don't want to seem like you've made mistakes,
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  but that's exactly the word unlock helps you to just go, okay,
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  yeah, cool, I'm open to suggestions now and progressing, and I can't recommend it enough for that.
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  That's really cool. And it's really interesting and inspiring to hear you admit that it is scary.
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  And therapists who are scared and don't like the idea of how to open up and
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  admit what they've done wrong, what they don't know.
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  Hopefully that instills you a bit of confidence. How do you do that actually, Andy Hoskood?
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  If someone comes, they are scared, they don't want to open up and they're thinking,
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  are you going to think I'm such an idiot? How do you help that kind of person?
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  Mark, Mr. McCauley will laugh at this it's about being curious isn't it,
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  you know and I think that is fundamentally I think that is my,
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  as an individual it's something that is my natural nature it's to be curious
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  of why people feel they want to do and I think,
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  for me it goes back to being a therapist that we all are you know how do we,
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  when we walk into a room for the very first time we've got somebody that is
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  often in pain or has got something wrong with them and And they might, they're anxious,
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  they might be fearful, they might be very emotional about what's going to happen.
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  And I think, so all I do is apply the skills that I've learned as a clinician
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  and just apply it in the same principles.
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  Can we make an environment where we can create good rapport,
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  we can create a safe environment where people realize that actually they're
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  not going to be judged on what they say.
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  And I think if you can create that environment and create that very quickly.
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  And hopefully that's something I'm quite good at, that, you know,
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  you allow people to then open up.
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  And I think once people start opening up and feel comfortable,
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  you know, a lot of the times we're all guilty of it, aren't we?
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  We have something in us. We say it out loud in a safe space and actually it
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  feels good to say and it actually is quite refreshing and allows us to do stuff.
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  And actually it's the one thing that allows us to move forward. so i
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  would say you know and everyone's got those skills and things
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  connections and well if they haven't got them skills then i'll
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  have to co-think and so you have to like obviously go on mr
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  mccauley's course and learn how to communicate better don't they it's a
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  good start wouldn't it yeah for example yeah yeah that's great just listen to
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  you there is is you can get a great idea of it and it's so important so very
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  very important claire boucher oh here we go i've got speakers um other speakers
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  in the sta theater joining us tonight listen to you guys there hey Hey,
• 16:14
  Claire, thanks for joining us.
• 16:15
  Is it a competition, Matt? I really can't remember what you're referring to now.
• 16:19
  I think maybe it was, what's the name of the podcast or something? But I can't remember.
• 16:23
  That was too long ago, Claire. Probably between me and Andy and again.
• 16:27
  Oh, the alpha male thing and yeah. Those combat skills.
• 16:31
  I know what you're saying, Claire.
• 16:33
  Claire is going to be speaking in the SCA Theatre and is going to be a guest
• 16:36
  on the podcast soon. Very excited.
• 16:38
  All about fascia, which again, if you're interested in fascia,
• 16:41
  you know what for me because i've
• 16:44
  been through the myth busting 10 years ago i was at therapy expo almost laughing
• 16:49
  at people doing total adam beacons and thinking i was actually not slacking
• 16:52
  off adam too much but i was there and just shouting in capital letters and i
• 16:56
  realized it didn't really work so i'm really keen now on people who think all
• 17:01
  of these things are myth to come back and,
• 17:03
  reassess what they were like 10 years ago fascia is one of
• 17:06
  those areas where you need to because we've all been talking
• 17:09
  about the chowdery paper and how it takes this amount of neutrons to
• 17:12
  change this amount of fascia and it's only done on the
• 17:14
  nasal fascia and stuff and kind of laughed and poo-pooed it all but
• 17:17
  we went a bit too far and if you're interested
• 17:20
  in fascia not swinging the pendulum too far one
• 17:23
  way but coming back a little bit which i think a lot of clinicians need to do
• 17:26
  then claire boucher is your person and there's
• 17:29
  a great episode already i can't remember which one it is but
• 17:32
  claire's going to be back on the show and she's going to be at therapy expert as well
• 17:34
  talking about that with us which i think is really cool because
• 17:37
  anywhere we kind of retrace our steps and think oh maybe i went a bit too gung-ho
• 17:41
  on that particular belief which i think we all did in about 2013 then i think
• 17:45
  that's good to make you a better clinician so thanks for joining us claire and
• 17:48
  we'll see you soon right let's let's bring this up man because teacup what a great name the teacup.
• 17:56
  Podcast which is going to be coming out
• 17:59
  when andrew why teacup great great
• 18:02
  great question about what and andy's going to be like
• 18:05
  yeah i like to say that andy puts the boot into my neck
• 18:08
  but but in a friendly way in
• 18:11
  a friendly so i don't i i do i can tap out if i'd like but
• 18:13
  so what a busy life's like no i the plan
• 18:16
  is i've already done two there's another there's a bunch of people
• 18:19
  waiting to do more so and they'll be out
• 18:22
  and i'm hoping october matt but all the socials will
• 18:25
  come up i'm working on that this month but i've had
• 18:27
  two really good episodes so far
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  i did my one earlier on with ben cormack and
• 18:33
  then with andy my first one and i suppose
• 18:36
  where did it come from was like it
• 18:39
  was well it was it was down to andy as well to some degree when it
• 18:42
  was a lot to degree it was inside me and i
• 18:45
  was kind of like how do i um i have a certain way of looking
• 18:47
  at health care and i want to i want to try
• 18:50
  to help people who are interested in the type of health care i like which.
• 18:53
  Is good coaching good communication and getting people where
• 18:56
  they want to be and i i just
• 18:59
  think in this space communication is undervalued and i
• 19:02
  had this conversation with ben earlier on and we were like for some
• 19:05
  reason communication we know is so important but people still
• 19:07
  undervalue it and we kind of came to the conclusion is
• 19:10
  it's very difficult and it's very difficult it's not tangible unlike all
• 19:14
  the treatment techniques we have obviously and how do you measure
• 19:17
  it and people people struggle with it i think
• 19:20
  so what i wanted to do is like how do you have a how do
• 19:23
  you have a therapeutic conversation we all see patients we
• 19:27
  all have to get information from them we all have to hopefully
• 19:30
  build connection and trust with them but every patient's that
• 19:33
  little bit that won't like you might see somebody with osteoarthritis and
• 19:36
  i have a clinic of that all knee arthritis patients but all
• 19:39
  the conversations are different and what makes those
• 19:42
  conversations difficult and what how do you
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  unlock these people to use andy's term as well
• 19:47
  and and that's what i want to have those conversations with
• 19:51
  all with people who are interested in this area and the anecdotes and the stories
• 19:55
  and to really pick apart why it's not popular if you like why other forms of
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  treatment is more popular than being a good coach or good communicator and i
• 20:04
  think that can only happen in the nature of communication by having conversations.
• 20:09
  And so hopefully people listening in it's i want it to be fun i want it to be
• 20:14
  able to podcast that people can kind of watch and listen in the car and not
• 20:17
  have to take a million notes, but at the same time, finish the podcast and think,
• 20:21
  you know, I've learned something.
• 20:23
  That's really useful. And hopefully just walk into the next person they see
• 20:27
  and communicate differently.
• 20:28
  Or maybe they'll treat the patients differently. Or maybe they'll go and look
• 20:32
  up something regarding communication or coaching. Or maybe they'll do something like that.
• 20:36
  So it's not like busting you with evidence. but at the same time hopefully you
• 20:41
  come away with then something that you enjoy it basically.
• 20:46
  Sounds amazing sounds great you know just
• 20:48
  when i think there's too many podcasts out there i think you've
• 20:51
  got something which is like this is something which isn't
• 20:54
  really being done we all talk about oh so important to listen
• 20:57
  it's like yeah but yeah skills or what does that mean or when and why can you
• 21:01
  over listen and stuff so yeah brilliant oh yeah i just on that point yeah that's
• 21:05
  the thing is there's nuances isn't it in all that people can as ben was saying
• 21:09
  again it's a great episode so you need to listen to it out there uh the lip
• 21:12
  service to this like every course
• 21:14
  you go on it's really important to listen it's really important everybody on
• 21:17
  courses including on other people i talked about they'll all say
• 21:20
  what makes a good therapist and they'll all say those good
• 21:23
  things and all the nearly like oh yeah listen and i'll
• 21:26
  be empathic and i'll do it but it you know it's
• 21:29
  it's lip service i think in some ways because it reflects on therapists often
• 21:32
  saying they don't really either go into communication training formally or are
• 21:37
  interested themselves because again for some reason there's an undervalue to
• 21:41
  it and i think the other thing is as well as no No one really thinks they're
• 21:44
  crap at communication or wants to think that they are.
• 21:47
  And I think that's a vulnerable thing. Again, linking back to what Andy was,
• 21:50
  you know, Andy's job, as I say, is very similar.
• 21:53
  It's just that vulnerability around, you know what, if you listen to yourself
• 21:56
  back sometimes and you don't have that awareness, you know, there is some crap
• 22:01
  communicators out there.
• 22:02
  And I'm certainly not coming from a point of view of thinking I'm brilliant,
• 22:05
  but I do certainly self-reflect a lot to try and change it.
• 22:09
  And i think that i think that's why i wanted to set this up to hopefully be
• 22:14
  slightly different than just here the evidence around communication you should
• 22:17
  do it but you know i'll see you later.
• 22:19
  Sounds really good and yeah and you put the words you took the words out of
• 22:22
  my mouth it really ties back to the whole idea of mentorship and having someone
• 22:25
  just listen to you and give you honest feedback at the right time which you
• 22:29
  can react to can i jump it but i think it also comes and i think one of the
• 22:33
  things that andrew's done very very well and i think where the philosophy will
• 22:36
  be really helpful to listeners when they do listen it is
• 22:40
  the ability and i think of all therapists we you
• 22:44
  know let's go back to this vulnerability factor and i
• 22:46
  think we we have that generally for the you know
• 22:49
  going back to our school days we're afraid to put our hand up and ask a question
• 22:52
  because of what we're going to be mocked because you know you don't get it you
• 22:58
  know and i still think that goes through university and especially from physiotherapy
• 23:01
  and you know you know all of these things there is this element of don't want to be viewed by peers,
• 23:08
  and i think one of the things that andrew has created
• 23:11
  and will create and is going to go on to create is the
• 23:14
  fact that it's people that are comfortable saying i was crap or i was less good
• 23:21
  and i had to work hard to become it but this is what i did and this is what
• 23:25
  this is how my client outcomes or patient outcomes got better because of this
• 23:30
  sounds great i really can forward to it.
• 23:33
  Yeah, I hope it comes out in October. Really excited. And obviously we will
• 23:36
  let STA members know when it is out and hopefully have you back on the show
• 23:41
  once you've had a few guests in to hear how it's going and what the reception's
• 23:43
  like. Sounds really good.
• 23:44
  Right, look, we're half past. So let's turn our attention to what was advertised on the tin tonight.
• 23:50
  Exercise prescription, why communication matters. So we've talked about communication
• 23:53
  and we've given some great examples, but we're going to try and link it in now
• 23:57
  to when it comes to prescribing exercise.
• 24:00
  Exercise so let's maybe i mean
• 24:03
  andrew in at the therapy expert
• 24:06
  this year just to remind people what
• 24:09
  you're going to be doing exercise prescription why most people
• 24:12
  are italian great now we're going to leave that as a
• 24:15
  little bit of a hook and not explain too much what that is in
• 24:18
  implying that title but what
• 24:22
  what do you think p why would you what would you say to listeners who
• 24:25
  are thinking i might go along to that what are they going to gain from going along to
• 24:28
  that main theater presentation yeah look some
• 24:32
  an observation i make or have made and had
• 24:36
  discussions about with many therapists over years is what's
• 24:39
  our what's one of the big problems we have around exercise prescription and
• 24:43
  it's it's often the thing that comes back is that the commitment the commitment
• 24:46
  to it or over prescription under
• 24:49
  prescription you know patients not effectively not
• 24:53
  coming back and potentially doing it and that's the kind
• 24:55
  of age-old problem that therapists will say or they'll
• 24:59
  say they haven't got time or you know they'll struggle with
• 25:02
  the time to get everything in and and that also
• 25:05
  kind of leaks into sometimes throw away exercise.
• 25:08
  Prescription like oh by the way here's the exercise out the
• 25:12
  door and and and they come back and it it doesn't quite
• 25:15
  doesn't quite work like that so i was kind
• 25:18
  of looking at so how do we we have kind of tools sometimes for
• 25:21
  clinical reasoning around um a shoulder problem
• 25:24
  or a back problem we kind of have questions and we kind of
• 25:27
  ideas and subjective kind of ways of
• 25:30
  looking at patterns of pathology or
• 25:33
  whatever might have happened or looking into the history to find clues
• 25:36
  but do we have those same questions and
• 25:39
  those same ideas around exercise prescription and how does that link to the
• 25:42
  evidence that we have around it so what i wanted to do then is and i think what
• 25:47
  what works really well is have we got some kind of sort of system that you can
• 25:51
  use or in my case a metaphor for or metaphors that we can use to kind of say,
• 25:55
  when I've got a patient in front of me.
• 25:58
  What how can i maybe and i'm not saying we do
• 26:00
  this right we don't we can subgroup people we can
• 26:03
  kind of think well actually they're falling into this kind of
• 26:06
  category because they're telling me this information which is
• 26:09
  then allowing me to be able to say you know what i only
• 26:12
  need five minutes at the end of this this hour i have
• 26:15
  to be able to give because i know it's only going to take me five
• 26:18
  minutes so within that first 15 20
• 26:21
  minutes sometimes in a subjective you're already kind of making
• 26:24
  a an idea that you will only maybe need to
• 26:26
  give somebody one exercise or five or you
• 26:30
  might just need to give them reassurance and educate you know and
• 26:33
  maybe wait to the next appointment because of the
• 26:35
  way they're the way they're telling you so i thought well how do
• 26:38
  i identify those things and therefore once i have that i can sit back and not
• 26:43
  be in a rush to to kind of nearly speed up my communication to find all the
• 26:47
  answers so then i go right now i've got my 10 minutes to exercise and next thing
• 26:51
  you know it's a sheet and you're out the door or a link The new one is a link
• 26:54
  to a website to then look up your exercise.
• 26:57
  So that in a nutshell is I'm trying to help therapists nearly calm down their own speed.
• 27:02
  Because again, if they're in a rush to try and communicate this across, they won't listen well.
• 27:08
  And if they don't listen well, then they won't be able to work out what will
• 27:12
  work for that patient or how much time that patient can have, etc., etc.
• 27:16
  Etc and so the the dorsage comes from the ability to listen but that that allows
• 27:21
  you then to buy time down the line so you don't panic and rush your questions
• 27:24
  brilliant wonderfully explained,
• 27:27
  and it is so important isn't it because we know that one of the biggest problems therapists faces,
• 27:33
  is non-adherence to doing what their kind of patients are being told to do but
• 27:37
  then we tend historically to say oh they haven't done their exercises how do
• 27:40
  they hope to get better if they don't do their exercises but what you're suggesting
• 27:43
  is it's our job excuse me to actually make sure
• 27:46
  the patient hears what we're saying and and again are given something that's
• 27:50
  sensible for them as opposed to just a sheet or like you say a link it needs
• 27:54
  to truly be individualized.
• 27:55
  It didn't and then and yes and and certainly what's
• 27:58
  really important within that is that collaboration as well
• 28:01
  so the discussion then allows you to
• 28:04
  be able to work out what they're not their normal week
• 28:07
  looks like because look patients i my talk the year
• 28:10
  before was why patients are liars now we're
• 28:13
  all liars we've got evidence for that we all lie to each
• 28:16
  other men lie three times within the first 10 minutes of meeting somebody
• 28:19
  new so men are just you know really bad at telling
• 28:22
  lies especially about themselves so patients will
• 28:26
  come in desperate to get better desperate to be
• 28:29
  out of pain and they'll say things like i'll do whatever it takes and you know
• 28:32
  you just tell me what to do and i'll do it and then when you actually
• 28:34
  break down they're weak and you start looking
• 28:37
  at it you soon find out that there's no time here that
• 28:40
  you know you're not going to leave your child from being fed
• 28:43
  to do the exercises that's not going to happen you're not going
• 28:46
  to knock all to work you're not going to see all these things that
• 28:49
  patients say day they will do it's kind of up to us to
• 28:52
  kind of go yeah that that makes sense but where are we going to put this and
• 28:55
  and and kind of unravel their kind of thinking around it
• 28:58
  because they are desperate they're anxious they want to be out of pain so again
• 29:01
  it comes down to the communication of being able to understand that to then
• 29:05
  say okay look i know you want to do loads of things but let's maybe start here
• 29:08
  and this might be why it would fit what do you think so there's there's definitely
• 29:11
  a collaboration that you want so that everyone's agreed on what we're going
• 29:15
  to do and And then it's a form of what you would say in coaching,
• 29:18
  contracting them so that they have that kind of commitment now.
• 29:21
  And then it's like, right, OK, so this is what we're going to do.
• 29:24
  So when you come back, we know we're clear and we fit it in your lifestyle.
• 29:29
  So, yeah, that's how I am.
• 29:31
  Hopefully that's what I want. And then that would be good in the SDA stuff, Q&As around that.
• 29:36
  So people come to the talk, then we can definitely open up on some of those
• 29:40
  kind of metaphors and hopefully answer some questions.
• 29:43
  I wonder whether I don't know because you're both from a physio background well
• 29:47
  I say you're both from a physio background you did.
• 29:49
  Just go back to your history a bit you actually did masters in
• 29:53
  sports and exercise medicine didn't you so as well as physiotherapy and
• 29:57
  yeah condition qualification as
• 30:00
  well over in america's at cscs and things yeah so it's
• 30:03
  definitely not sometimes we get letters saying why did you just have physios on
• 30:06
  the show and it's not the case at all people it's not a lot of them
• 30:08
  are physiotherapists but they've done a lot more as well so but i'm
• 30:11
  wondering whether one of the issues with soft tissue
• 30:14
  therapy particularly if you've gone down like a sports massage or
• 30:17
  even sports therapy is a lot of the focus in training is
• 30:20
  on what you're doing with your hands and fixing and mending and that sort of
• 30:23
  stuff and and that kind of overshadows exercise prescription
• 30:26
  apart from with sports we have degrees and things where
• 30:29
  the focus is on the exercises but i think i
• 30:32
  wonder whether you get the impression that a lot of the time you have to almost like
• 30:35
  a bruce lee analogy of empty the glass of a lot of water before you
• 30:38
  can start filling it up again because we're taught pretty badly
• 30:41
  if you look at traditional ways of teaching where the exercise
• 30:44
  prescription and the chat comes at the end like you say whereas really it
• 30:47
  should be from as soon as you start isn't it you've got education
• 30:50
  going on as opposed to fixing people yeah and
• 30:53
  like just soft tissue therapists have come on my course
• 30:56
  for example and like i
• 30:59
  think we talked we talked about this before it's like obviously there's forms
• 31:02
  of communication hands-on therapy again there's there's
• 31:05
  a trust built in there there's maybe calming down of pain
• 31:08
  there's a relaxation of anxiety which we
• 31:11
  know happens and therefore they're actually in a really good position to
• 31:13
  maybe say do you want to try something now so exercise can.
• 31:16
  Come in there so it's just a different approach but very similar.
• 31:20
  Idea that you're you're working on that idea of still being
• 31:23
  able to figure out this patient and some people like to be talked to during
• 31:26
  it and if they are then you can really start to get a little bit more information.
• 31:30
  From them so that you can you can do that at the end of your massage therapy
• 31:35
  or whatever you're doing that way from a physical point of view it doesn't really
• 31:39
  matter it's just another form of communication in my opinion.
• 31:42
  That's really cool that should be really nice for manual therapists
• 31:46
  in particular to hear because it's not that we're saying stop doing
• 31:49
  your manual therapy it's just what you're doing can work
• 31:52
  in different ways especially when it's talking to getting that alliance like
• 31:54
  you say and you've got to throw it all out and give up your
• 31:57
  career far from it because if you're an expert in relaxing people down
• 32:00
  and getting them to be more accepted wow there's something there which
• 32:03
  healthcare really needs hey there
• 32:07
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• 32:59
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• 33:02
  The discount code sta15 doesn't
• 33:07
  include already discounted bundles andy this
• 33:12
  almost sound like magic to you the idea of
• 33:15
  promoting communication to help people actually listen and
• 33:18
  hear and do their exercises is it something that you
• 33:21
  see when you're mentoring and coaching that's needed well yeah
• 33:25
  because i think it sits into and for me
• 33:28
  you know from a business perspective everything needs
• 33:31
  to be around the number one is expectation matching
• 33:34
  so you know what you know what i'm
• 33:37
  just talking about there is understanding what the patient
• 33:40
  wants from the session as well and then how do we you
• 33:44
  know behave in a way to match that expectation and that
• 33:47
  creates that initial rapport doesn't it which then creates
• 33:50
  the likelihood that someone's going to return back to your.
• 33:53
  Business and return your business so you know i think there's
• 33:56
  a that ability to communicate well is only
• 33:59
  going to build that relationship better you know
• 34:02
  as you're aware my talk at therapy actually on client
• 34:05
  retention and i think it's one of the biggest things
• 34:08
  that we spend a lot of time working with
• 34:11
  with a business owners now normally the business
• 34:14
  owner can be is very good at this and it's something that they have built a
• 34:18
  business on and become very successful but they're not always aware of that
• 34:22
  and that's the part that okay we talk about the unlocking the superpower they
• 34:26
  actually realize that they're very good at it because they've got the communication
• 34:29
  skills but when they don't have the self-awareness they're good at it they don't then pass that on.
• 34:34
  So one of the things I think what's excellent from what Andrew was saying there
• 34:37
  is, I think from a customer experience perspective, you know,
• 34:41
  if you can come in and you are emotional and you can be reassured,
• 34:46
  you can talk at the level that you're ready for.
• 34:49
  Because, again, that's part of the problem, isn't it? You know,
• 34:53
  everyone, if it's day one, they might only be emotionally ready to take away one thing.
• 34:58
  Whereas once they've built that trust and rapport up and
• 35:01
  they might be the second or third session they might be able to take more
• 35:04
  information or take more exercises on because the trust
• 35:07
  is there and they believe more in their body and that so that
• 35:11
  certainly for me is one of the superpowers that we
• 35:13
  can really explore with business owners is how do we
• 35:16
  kind of unlock that within a business yeah i think
• 35:20
  that's really useful as well because it is a struggle
• 35:23
  for therapists out there health care is not really a place where you're
• 35:25
  going to make loads of money because you don't do it for about you do it to get thank
• 35:28
  yous and feel good about yourself to help people but you
• 35:31
  still need to make a living and i think therapists do struggle
• 35:35
  because they're not they don't realize this they were never
• 35:38
  taught it sadly one day hopefully we do more courses but if the clients if you
• 35:43
  haven't got that client attention happening then your business is pretty much
• 35:46
  got a pretty poor trajectory isn't it it's going to go downhill if you're just
• 35:49
  basing it on having ultimate success by doing what you always do with every
• 35:53
  single client well then all your focus is I'm continuing trying to get new patients in.
• 35:57
  And then, you know, one of the big things is that we spend a lot of time with
• 36:01
  owners is, you know, to sit into this kind of health care model of,
• 36:05
  you know, what are the outcomes? Are we actually matching people?
• 36:09
  Now, that might be paying outcomes or it might just be are the patients getting what they want?
• 36:15
  And, you know, what's the feedback? you know one of the big things that was
• 36:20
  really interesting when we look at businesses.
• 36:22
  Is what is the actual feedback from the patients and can we survey them to understand
• 36:26
  is are we actually matching what we think we are or are you know just because
• 36:31
  the patient doesn't come back are we making huge assumptions that we've done
• 36:34
  a good job you know do we have the follow-up in six months just to say actually how are you getting on.
• 36:40
  You know, have they gone to the other clinic down the road? Because actually they never got better.
• 36:44
  We didn't follow up with them and we didn't really understand what their problems
• 36:47
  were. And given what we know, they went somewhere else.
• 36:49
  You know, so I think it's really, really, really important that we,
• 36:52
  you know, we look at a client and that client.
• 36:55
  If we care, you know, fundamentally, we all come into this because are we allowed to swear on this?
• 37:02
  Oh, yeah. Automatically, Andrew will call you when his name comes up.
• 37:05
  OK. This is maybe swearing on this episode. So generally, I think the reason
• 37:10
  why we all get on is because we give a shit, don't we?
• 37:13
  Do you know what I mean? And we generally care about the patient in front of us.
• 37:17
  You know, we really generally care about the human being that is in that uncomfortable position.
• 37:21
  And I generally think most therapists do.
• 37:24
  My challenge always is, you know,
• 37:27
  are we ethically treating patients by actually not taking the time to listen,
• 37:32
  not asking the right questions, not asking what they want from us,
• 37:35
  and then showing them how and then how do we support them on that journey correctly
• 37:39
  i think that for me and also you know it's one of my things that we talk about
• 37:45
  an awful lot with customer experience and i think i've talked about this at
• 37:49
  one of the best expos is about,
• 37:52
  expectation matching so for again you know
• 37:55
  if you if you generally a patient you want to come in and you
• 37:58
  want to spend you know somebody just having some deep tissue
• 38:01
  work and you go in to see somebody that doesn't do
• 38:04
  that and it's just going to give you exercises you're going to be mismatched aren't
• 38:07
  you and unfortunately that's going to create quite an uncomfortable
• 38:10
  conversation whereas if you you
• 38:13
  know if you're generally looking you're into your exercise in
• 38:16
  the gym and you want to be thinking about how to train better and stuff and
• 38:20
  but you don't get that again there's a mismatch and it's a
• 38:22
  complete breakdown so communication through the
• 38:25
  whole experience even through your marketing for me
• 38:28
  is just paramount for success fantastic great
• 38:31
  points um we've got a question here coming yeah go for it andrew i was gonna
• 38:35
  i think i was just gonna cue you in case you hadn't seen it oh fantastic yeah
• 38:38
  from claire let's bring this up on the screen for those of you who are watching
• 38:40
  the live show claire boucher says how are you finding the needs and requirements
• 38:44
  of communication have changed in exercise prescription particularly since we
• 38:48
  have shifted to a more remote blended approach.
• 38:51
  Yeah, it's a great, it's a really good question. And I think you'll see,
• 38:54
  particularly in the US, they've really adapted this from personal training.
• 39:01
  So personal trainers have been miles ahead of us therapists in this game,
• 39:06
  which is the idea that you can coach people remotely and set prescription,
• 39:11
  set up exercise programs.
• 39:15
  I've been on the receiving end of that. A few years ago,
• 39:17
  i got a free three-month trial with a coach and i was
• 39:20
  blown away by her ability to kind of contract
• 39:23
  me i actually signed the contract at the end to say what i so i had to tell
• 39:27
  her what i wanted out of the sessions and then sign it to say that that was
• 39:31
  it so there's really really kind of hardcore accountability which you know which
• 39:35
  i found really interesting it's not for everyone but i guess you don't sign
• 39:38
  up to something like that if you're not going to do something like this.
• 39:41
  So around that it was interesting to kind of
• 39:43
  like she set the program the exercises were there
• 39:46
  i go on an app i do the workout and then i report back
• 39:49
  how i got on with the workout and and i was
• 39:52
  kind of like go and then she would once a
• 39:55
  week come on with a video that wasn't live
• 39:57
  i didn't have to speak to her she would give me some feedback all on
• 40:00
  that and if there was any any help or any
• 40:03
  questions or anything like that and that would happen for that happened for
• 40:05
  three months and i made amazing progress i did
• 40:08
  really well and i enjoyed it and it was free so again
• 40:11
  you know at the end of the day but you would normally charge for that certain price
• 40:14
  and so what was what amazed me was i was going there is
• 40:18
  probably a a group of patients that
• 40:21
  will do really well for that kind of accountability that kind
• 40:25
  of reporting that therapists you know often think they need to see people i
• 40:29
  need to be doing things to them or having that face-to-face communication which
• 40:33
  i agree with at times for the right people you need to do that but there's so
• 40:37
  much stuff that people just want that like little check-in that little bit of
• 40:41
  of being able to kind of say yeah i'm doing what i.
• 40:43
  Said i was going to do you'll get a subset of
• 40:47
  patients who will pay definitely for that i know it's not
• 40:49
  all about pain but we're really crap at charging for
• 40:52
  our time hence why we run ourselves into the ground so sometimes
• 40:55
  it's a bit like actually know what i could see patients half
• 40:58
  the morning maybe face to face and that can be quite tiring but
• 41:02
  then i might have a maybe an afternoon of maybe some more phone calls
• 41:05
  or video calls and they are definitely easier but
• 41:08
  you can can still apply the same skills and and i
• 41:11
  think it's it's the same idea like for some people that will
• 41:13
  work brilliantly so the question was kind of like since we shifted to more remote
• 41:18
  how are you finding this needs and requirements i i think it just you have to
• 41:22
  be again confident in being able to use that medium so again like i think i
• 41:28
  did online teaching the two day on my course two days online.
• 41:32
  I was absolutely wiped out by the end of it. It was like talking to my slides
• 41:37
  until the breaks or maybe the odd question.
• 41:40
  Oh my God, it was really tough going.
• 41:43
  Webinar is fine, a couple of hours and stuff. But even still,
• 41:46
  I did a webinar last week, three hours, some questions at the end, and there was nothing.
• 41:53
  Dead space, no interaction. No, you know what I mean? Just that's the way it is.
• 41:57
  There's no one, you don't see anyone, you don't see any body language. you have to
• 42:00
  be you know and at the end of that sometimes mentally i was really drained
• 42:04
  and really struggled i was like oh my god this isn't for
• 42:06
  me at all i do a face-to-face lecture and i'm
• 42:09
  absolutely buzzing i love it because i can completely work the
• 42:12
  audience if i want to so you do need to
• 42:14
  get comfortable with certain ways of communication and
• 42:17
  i found the more you do it the kind of little nuances you're
• 42:21
  finding this is how i manage people online but the
• 42:24
  same principles are like you know you get in their story you're
• 42:28
  you're looking at the situation both people know the situation you're
• 42:31
  online there's no there's no expectation other than
• 42:34
  that and i think just being confident around that and i
• 42:36
  think it's a really nice blend i think i give therapists a bit of a break mentally
• 42:41
  so i don't know if that answers your question claire but hopefully that makes
• 42:44
  sense great question claire yeah feel free to follow oh you have already looked
• 42:48
  fast on that keyboard claire claire says absolutely understand that mental fatigue
• 42:52
  when teaching online, yeah. Great answer.
• 42:55
  Feel free to do a follow-up question if you like, Claire.
• 42:58
  I wonder whether I was thinking as you were talking then, is there.
• 43:02
  Now that generally we are less inclined to believe that,
• 43:08
  that all the time how someone's doing their
• 43:10
  squat or how someone's doing that particular exercise they they
• 43:14
  that they have to be doing it well and perfect and symmetrically
• 43:17
  kind of like it says in the textbook now we're
• 43:20
  kind of downplaying that a little bit does that provide more room now
• 43:23
  for people to appreciate that it's more to do with how we're explaining this
• 43:27
  exercise and whether the client is receptive have we now got more time as therapists
• 43:31
  as long as we're kind of putting aside that importance for the correct form
• 43:36
  when they're doing the exercise size is that way kind of shifting a little bit
• 43:40
  it's kind of like if you imagine a scale,
• 43:42
  and i and the answer as well but yeah like in
• 43:45
  a nutshell yeah we're getting away from there's a right way to
• 43:47
  do things and there's not a right way to communicate like and
• 43:50
  i love andy's one where i'm definitely robbing this
• 43:53
  from course on friday which is that you know you come into a
• 43:56
  room of people i don't expect everyone to
• 43:59
  look the same and therefore i don't expect everyone to also.
• 44:02
  Think the same or listen the same if i butchered
• 44:05
  your end quote but you get that and
• 44:08
  when you say you say that you're thinking yeah of course so why would
• 44:11
  why would they why would they learn you know the same and why
• 44:14
  would they listen the same so i think i think that's that's a
• 44:16
  really important kind of thing to always recognize that
• 44:20
  we are moving towards that kind of like exercise it's not yes
• 44:23
  this is the right way and format because actually i've
• 44:26
  seen people do a deadlift in many different ways and either performance improves
• 44:29
  pain decreases or vice versa and
• 44:33
  i think it breaks down fear and we don't have any clear evidence especially
• 44:36
  around pain around these things like you've just been you know alluding to
• 44:38
  i don't want to kind of you know say exactly what you just
• 44:41
  said but the idea it does make it easier but
• 44:44
  you still happen to figure out you can still send videos you can
• 44:47
  still i guess whatsapp is great for stuff like that if you're in
• 44:49
  private practice so and and then and if
• 44:52
  you're not sure about it and again you can play with movement quite
• 44:55
  easily online as well you know you can watch things
• 44:58
  i yeah i think you're right i think it's just the fact that
• 45:01
  we are now there is not what we're moving away from is the right way to do things
• 45:05
  it's the right way for that person it's a bit like diets but also i think it
• 45:11
  allows you to be flexible for the person as well doesn't it because you know
• 45:14
  one of the you know especially where you are where if you're a little bit more
• 45:18
  remote people might have to travel further.
• 45:19
  Or you know or there are
• 45:23
  there are so many kind of different ways and and
• 45:26
  i think whereas before technology everyone
• 45:28
  was a bit shy you could argue and especially if
• 45:31
  we're going to stereotype an older population but i think now everybody you
• 45:36
  know is familiar with with technology in the right way if it is you know video
• 45:40
  calls and actually if what we're saying is sometimes it's just about progressing
• 45:45
  an exercise giving some confidence and it might It might just be a phone call
• 45:50
  to say, actually, that's brilliant.
• 45:51
  You've done that well. Why not try a little bit more weight,
• 45:54
  a few more reps, maybe a little bit more intensity?
• 45:58
  Then actually that can be a business model that can be. And I think what we've
• 46:02
  realized is that this traditional model of having to turn up to clinic for half
• 46:06
  an hour of a session to go through the whole thing, what technology has changed
• 46:11
  in lots of the platforms,
• 46:12
  especially what we're using as well.
• 46:15
  You know, a patient might just need a 15-minute check-in and a new program,
• 46:19
  you know, like you're saying, Andrew, you know, with the programming and stuff.
• 46:24
  It might just be what do we need to do with sets and checks and loads and all
• 46:28
  the kind of things. That's what I call in my talk Mexican food.
• 46:33
  I'm going to be very persistent. There you go. I can't wait to link it in.
• 46:40
  Is that clarity teacup references because, or sorry, Nicky, is it Nicky? Sorry.
• 46:44
  Yes. Nicky, it's called Therapeutic Conversations Unraveled Podcast.
• 46:49
  It rolls off the tongue really easy.
• 46:52
  And hence it ended up being teacup, which I thought was quite good.
• 46:57
  Because we were having a cup of tea and having a conversation.
• 46:59
  It's a good one. It's very good. And actually, Nikki said, previous to that,
• 47:04
  Nikki brings up a great point.
• 47:05
  She says, that was a great point, thanks, Andrew, about clients' receptivity
• 47:08
  changing over the course of treatments.
• 47:10
  I'm deaf guilty of trying to give too much in the first session, sometimes not enough.
• 47:13
  So I guess that's a really good, interesting point which you made about exercise prescription is.
• 47:17
  Unless you're communicating, which obviously is listening as well as talking in the right way,
• 47:22
  you're not adjusting the prescription you're giving out to match how that person
• 47:27
  is feeling on that particular day so tell us a little bit more about that if
• 47:30
  you could could you just repeat that again just so i get the right question
• 47:34
  sorry you kind of touched on it before but how a client's receptive receptivity can change,
• 47:41
  from day to day and unless you're reading that by communicating well with them
• 47:45
  you may well be giving out an exercise prescription that worked perfectly with
• 47:48
  the other client or with that individual yes week but because you're not picking
• 47:52
  up on it give us like maybe have you got a case history of an example of where
• 47:55
  that can go well listening to them and watching them yeah well,
• 48:00
  yeah i'd love to i'd love to a patient pop into my head but it i suppose what
• 48:04
  i i'll come back to that hopefully via this and this makes sense so like i think
• 48:11
  what i try and do for my own brain and this is why i try and educate this way
• 48:15
  to see if people also agree with it and find it useful is,
• 48:18
  i'm straight away what i want to do is every individual patient i see i want to explore them.
• 48:23
  I want to explore their world as much as i can so explore is
• 48:26
  my first thing i'm be interested i'm interested in people
• 48:28
  and that's why i do my job so that's what i hope i'm going to do really good at
• 48:31
  once i've learned that that's actually one of my decent skills
• 48:34
  once i've learned that actually because again that's not
• 48:37
  really taught in uni it taught like what you know what
• 48:40
  you remember and i used to go in like fucking oh yeah what
• 48:43
  what the red flags uh well did you have night pain
• 48:46
  i didn't even realize what i was saying whereas when i went in once
• 48:49
  i qualified i'd relax and i explore people i like this
• 48:52
  job i hated the job of the student and i suddenly loved
• 48:54
  the job now it was literally night and day like that thank god
• 48:58
  fucking 10 grand later and you'd be like you know i mean i hate this job but
• 49:02
  i didn't and i think that exploration allows you to go in the individual like
• 49:06
  whatever diagnosis is there the connection then is the next bit so it's that
• 49:10
  trying to build that connection as fast as i can and then i suppose once you've done that.
• 49:15
  The exercises kind of just fall into place really they
• 49:18
  just they allow you then to kind of go like it makes
• 49:21
  sense that that might be the way you go so like i prescribe
• 49:24
  squats to loads of people or sit to stand no
• 49:27
  matter what you want to call it to loads of people but it's
• 49:30
  the con like i could even tell you the 10 my 10
• 49:33
  most common exercises the exercises rarely change to
• 49:36
  be honest they're all similar but it's just
• 49:39
  how you know how they're going to be able to use maybe
• 49:41
  progressive massive overload so how are they going to be able to push
• 49:44
  this on so if i give them an exercise and it's strength-based how am i
• 49:47
  going to push that later on down the line so i'm trying to i'm trying to look
• 49:50
  about what if they say to me they're they go to a gym versus they hate gyms
• 49:54
  then again i that's going to be one who loves to go to the gym like extensions
• 49:58
  are going to be on the on the on the prescription once you don't then something
• 50:02
  else is going to have to happen so i suppose the.
• 50:05
  Question if you get that wrong what i
• 50:08
  suppose the the outcome of that is dna they don't turn up
• 50:11
  or don't do what you said or they
• 50:14
  come back in worse pain or whatever it might be so it will
• 50:17
  come back at you one way or the other in that form so it's
• 50:20
  it's again i'm just kind of going over that idea that you
• 50:23
  just need those things nailed and then the i would say in that exploration phase
• 50:28
  you find out the most important thing i think which is what people want they
• 50:33
  really desire what they want to get back to whatever that is you and it's clear
• 50:37
  across some of the longest longest going studies we want.
• 50:41
  We want meaning and we want to determine that as quickly as possible.
• 50:44
  And if you can do that and you can find out for the patient,
• 50:47
  and it's not just get out of pain, by the way, you know, it's often walking
• 50:51
  on the beach, walking a dog, playing a guitar.
• 50:53
  And as soon as you can identify that, I would build a rehab program around that.
• 50:58
  That's how I do it. That's how I think works really well in a lot of cases.
• 51:01
  We call that the emotional hook.
• 51:04
  So it's what is the one thing that they're so emotional about that they'll use
• 51:08
  that as a goal to go and achieve.
• 51:11
  I love it. Yeah, I love it. I love both of those. Yeah, so. He said it in like two sentences.
• 51:19
  Yeah, he's, yeah. The Irish in the Scouser.
• 51:24
  It's like if you ask an Irish person for directions, we'll tell you a story
• 51:27
  as opposed to where you're actually going.
• 51:30
  But at least it'll be entertaining. in i think i
• 51:33
  can't believe we're already running out or running out of time but i'd like
• 51:37
  to just maybe the temptation do you find the temptation sometimes this therapist
• 51:41
  feel that this all of this communication clever stuff is when it's a new client
• 51:45
  is the first time you meet them but to a certain extent i suppose this needs
• 51:48
  to be repeating itself every single session.
• 51:51
  Because the client could be in a different state of mind every single session
• 51:54
  do you find that's something that the therapists need to think
• 51:57
  about and remind themselves and the over to you because
• 52:00
  we only got five minutes so yeah well it's all
• 52:04
  right he's doing such a good job though isn't he it's quite entertaining
• 52:09
  sorry about the patronizing comment there aren't
• 52:12
  you but yeah no he's very helpful um no i think one of the things but again
• 52:18
  we all are and i think one of the things we've got to accept is a patient is
• 52:22
  a human first you know we don't know how they've got there they could have had
• 52:25
  an argument with their kid on the way and the husband on the way and the wife on the way in.
• 52:30
  You know, they could have just been found out with something bad at work and
• 52:34
  becoming made redundant.
• 52:35
  There's so many emotions that we carry with us all of the time as humans that
• 52:39
  we're always in a different state, aren't we?
• 52:42
  You know, like Andrew said, it could be one of those things.
• 52:44
  They've done really, really well with the first look. They've started to load
• 52:47
  or even got started running again.
• 52:49
  They've had a bad episode running or they've kind of felt a niggle and they've
• 52:54
  gone, oh, God, it's come all the way back.
• 52:56
  And all those emotions sit in them all the time. So I think the first thing
• 52:59
  you have to do in any human interaction is just check in to see where they're at.
• 53:04
  And then but also I think it's also important as a therapist that we check in where we are.
• 53:09
  And I think we've got to make sure that we're also self-aware of where we're
• 53:14
  at, you know, because we could have had those arguments and those conversations
• 53:17
  and be stuck in traffic or forgotten our dinner and be starving,
• 53:21
  you know, or, you know, if you've got young kids not slept well at night.
• 53:25
  There's so many different things and our patients are in exactly the same shoes.
• 53:29
  So I think it's always important that we just make sure we check in that first
• 53:32
  five minutes before we start making any decisions.
• 53:35
  Very good you guys speak such sense can't wait
• 53:39
  to third the expert that's great no it's great so so nice sitting back listening
• 53:44
  to you that's why sometimes i'm pausing before normally i'm thinking right next
• 53:47
  question next question with you guys i'm switching off a little bit because
• 53:49
  it's just i'm excited about what you're going to say next it's lifted to what
• 53:53
  we said on the podcast i did with you last matt which you said you were going
• 53:56
  to get a t-shirt with this on,
• 53:58
  which was when i get patients come back like andy was saying is that when they
• 54:01
  when they've done A lot of physios, I deal with physios, but therapists will
• 54:06
  get the patient back in. It's like, how did the exercise go?
• 54:09
  And it's kind of skipped on quite quickly, or they just add more.
• 54:12
  So that's the other problem is they just kind of go, right, well,
• 54:14
  let's just give you more because I need to do something.
• 54:16
  I need to show you that I'm giving you shit to do or doing something to you,
• 54:20
  all that. There's a pressure there.
• 54:22
  But like I often give them the cat sick test. Like, you know,
• 54:25
  so is there any exercises that you'd rather drink cat sick or carry on with
• 54:30
  these, these, these exercises, you know, which.
• 54:33
  Which, which, and, and if, and you'll see them going, Oh yeah,
• 54:35
  it's the, it's the fucking hamstring sliders.
• 54:38
  They, I hate them. Can I burn them? I'm like, yeah, burn them.
• 54:41
  I'm not a slave to any exercise, but that's the checking with them.
• 54:43
  And I think as well, like I'm, and he's leading to that, there's a trust building
• 54:47
  that it's a bit like, Oh, it's fucking sound man.
• 54:49
  That guy, like he's taking away this thing because i i really want
• 54:52
  to do what he said he wants to do and some people are
• 54:55
  really battle against it they're like no no i'll keep them i'll keep them i keep them
• 54:57
  like going keep keep them if you want but we we
• 55:00
  can we can find another way around this and again that's another form of
• 55:03
  like communication that just builds people like going okay and
• 55:06
  even if they think no no you're right i'll stick with this i'm all right
• 55:09
  with that but i'm glad you just said it's okay maybe not
• 55:12
  to do it you know there's not that force so you can
• 55:15
  always you can always find ways of just fine tuning
• 55:18
  how you exit and that chat could be
• 55:20
  five minutes you could have great crap with them they could be laughing and
• 55:23
  and all that and that's taking up your time but
• 55:26
  that's valuable time and actually all you needed to do in the
• 55:29
  exercise was actually we're just going to do it like this speed or we're
• 55:32
  going to just add this load here and it's just a little tweak mexican
• 55:35
  food and then we're going to go they they walk
• 55:38
  out going brilliant it's not giving me any more i actually can
• 55:41
  tolerate what he's giving me i'm just but it's it's a little bit harder for example
• 55:45
  excellent yeah the cat sick test
• 55:47
  so just to get that right in case listeners didn't catch it yeah
• 55:51
  you ask your client is there anything i've given you where you
• 55:53
  prefer to eat cat sick that can drain you doing the drink or
• 55:56
  a straw for the hard bits whatever it is yeah yeah great fantastic he just swigs
• 56:02
  back on if it's the podcast just a big swing back on his his vatican i'm in
• 56:07
  a vatican brilliant our chef nine o'clock so there's so much more we could you
• 56:12
  talk about but okay let's get this into perspective it's only an hour show people but.
• 56:16
  Right points i need to cover where people can
• 56:19
  get more information about this obviously let's just remind listeners about
• 56:22
  therapy expo because if you are coming to therapy expo maybe you're thinking
• 56:25
  oh i should go to therapy expo now let's just bring that up so we've made sure
• 56:28
  that people are clear on that so i've got andy hosgood on the screen first so
• 56:32
  that's going to be the 28th which which is day two at 11.40 to 12.05 in the STA Theatre.
• 56:40
  Client attention is a superpower for business growth, and that's going to be a Q&A session.
• 56:44
  So there you go. That is where Andy will be at Therapy Expo. And then also...
• 56:49
  On the 27th, which is day one at the same time, 11.40 a.m., you've got Andrew
• 56:55
  McCauley with exercise, dosage and clinical practice Q&A session.
• 56:59
  And that's going to kind of follow on if you're into Andrew,
• 57:02
  which I can totally understand.
• 57:03
  Then you may want to go to Theatre A at 10.20 on that same day for MSK Rehab
• 57:08
  Reasoning with Why Everyone is Italian. I'll have a double dose of Andrew.
• 57:13
  Nasty. seriously but apart from those
• 57:16
  two i just want to make sure that the therapist aware the very
• 57:19
  exciting stuff which you guys have got happening obviously
• 57:23
  andrew you're still doing
• 57:26
  your very popular strength and conditioning course i mean i believe there's
• 57:31
  some space is still left on something coming up soon is it yeah two weeks in
• 57:35
  london saturday the 20th it's not this weekend the following weekend saturday
• 57:39
  sunday it will be in st ennard's hospital in london quite central.
• 57:44
  Hdpn i think there's one or two left probably none
• 57:47
  left at this stage but you never know you need to
• 57:49
  race to get there and but yeah
• 57:52
  i mean you are one of my go-to guys for snc people
• 57:56
  are looking for snc which a lot of particularly soft
• 57:59
  tissue therapists and sdmms is something you might not have done unless
• 58:02
  you're kind of a sports therapy degree or sports rehab
• 58:04
  degree there's going to be weaknesses in your snc so yeah
• 58:07
  unraveling snc just on that one it's like
• 58:10
  as i said it's it is you know very much around coaching
• 58:13
  and developing those like if you want to do an exercise plan for somebody
• 58:16
  with persistent pain right all the way up to whether they're athletic or a lead
• 58:20
  athlete or play a sport at the weekends it the same principles apply and we
• 58:25
  have to apply them in the practical so it just it's not all like lifting weights
• 58:29
  and stuff there is a process for for all ages and genders and levels fantastic it's a pro care,
• 58:36
  ksportsmedicine.com for details on that i guess yeah we'll be down yeah or they
• 58:39
  can just email me it's probably the easiest which will be on my website so that's perfect,
• 58:43
  We'll put links in the notes for that. And then something that's very exciting,
• 58:48
  I think, coming up, which we kind of touched on, but I wanted a little bit more
• 58:50
  time on that, Andy Hosgood, is your Unlock with Andy.
• 58:54
  Tell us a little bit about that,
• 58:55
  because this, I think, I think is a great idea. Who's out there to work?
• 58:59
  Yeah, so, you know, on the principle, any business owner that's looking to kind
• 59:03
  of optimize themselves and try and, you know, unlock their own superpowers for themselves,
• 59:09
  like Andrew was saying, the kind of work that we do to help them kind of optimize their lives,
• 59:13
  their businesses and their teams so that will be so
• 59:17
  we can work on a one-to-one basis which is
• 59:20
  the kind of work i spend most of my time doing working with business owners
• 59:23
  on a one-to-one basis and their businesses but 2025 we will be launching a group
• 59:30
  project where we're looking to try and get 20 business owners to go on a journey
• 59:34
  together where we kind of unlock all aspects of them and their businesses,
• 59:40
  helping them kind of create this community of very, very good businesses that
• 59:46
  can go on and achieve their goals, really, on a structured thing.
• 59:49
  So that's going to be a really exciting project to help create that community.
• 59:55
  That's going to cost 12 months, yeah? Yeah, the plan is really to take people
• 59:59
  on a journey to kind of help them over 12 months to integrate,
• 1:00:03
  you know, lots of different things into their businesses that's going to,
• 1:00:06
  you know, Hopefully set them up for the years to come.
• 1:00:10
  I'm not really about trying to create short wins in people's lives and trying
• 1:00:13
  to make sure we give them that analogy.
• 1:00:16
  I'd rather not give them a fish than just give them the tools of how to fish.
• 1:00:19
  Analogy, really. And that's something that we're really looking to push forward.
• 1:00:23
  So that'd be really exciting. That'd be with Andy Thomas, a physio as well,
• 1:00:26
  another friend of ours. One of the...
• 1:00:29
  The Andrews. The Andrews. What is it about Andy's name?
• 1:00:33
  Who will be a therapy expert as well, obviously, which we're all looking forward
• 1:00:36
  to and if people want to find out about this if people's ears have freaked out
• 1:00:39
  yeah so follow that so a lot of that will be on the unlock with andy instagram
• 1:00:44
  which is is live content will be starting drip feeding and that you can always find me on you know my,
• 1:00:51
  on my linkedin which they can feel free to another bloody andrew i've just seen pops up on it.
• 1:00:58
  Yeah but it keeps it consistent you won't forget oh yeah that's what it's all about isn't it you know?
• 1:01:04
  So yeah. And again, like, like Andrew was saying, feel free to reach out.
• 1:01:08
  I'm always, always helpful where I can be. So you definitely are brilliant.
• 1:01:13
  Right. So we'll make sure these links to websites and Instagrams,
• 1:01:16
  and we'll go into the show notes, people and,
• 1:01:19
  hopefully as it's only like about 11 weeks away if it's 11 weeks yeah therapy
• 1:01:23
  expert thought we'll be here before we know it so we can continue the conversation there as well.
• 1:01:27
  Right before i forget then next week on the
• 1:01:30
  show so we're talking about if you listen to podcasts we're talking
• 1:01:33
  about tuesday september the 17th it's going to be episode 213 213
• 1:01:38
  weeks in a row my gosh we're excited now
• 1:01:41
  so the women in sports therapy podcast it's all
• 1:01:43
  about podcasts isn't it w-i-s-t wist not
• 1:01:47
  as catchy as teacup but it's kind of not bad yeah it's
• 1:01:50
  back it's going to be back it's in the process of being restarted with
• 1:01:53
  new host sonia fierro of recover stronger who
• 1:01:56
  a lot of you will know from the show and also from therapy expo and
• 1:01:59
  also sports therapist jimmy puzas as well and.
• 1:02:02
  So two new hosts who will be resurrecting the
• 1:02:05
  women's sports therapy podcast and also they are going
• 1:02:07
  to be presenting a wist q a
• 1:02:10
  session at therapy expo which is one of the things
• 1:02:13
  we got the biggest feedback for last year um it's going
• 1:02:16
  to be on day one at 10 15 a.m and i've
• 1:02:19
  just received news that michelle lions who's on
• 1:02:23
  the show a couple of weeks ago she is speaking prior to
• 1:02:26
  that and she's going to join in that q a session being a
• 1:02:29
  woman in sports therapy an irish woman isn't she
• 1:02:32
  uh she is indeed yeah yeah she had
• 1:02:35
  a brilliant talk last year she's amazing she's fantastic so
• 1:02:39
  yeah michelle lines is going to be joining sonia fiero and jim mapuzas as well
• 1:02:43
  for that q a session so there's your morning i think sorted out i don't think
• 1:02:47
  that clashes too much with andrew maybe i might have the whole morning sorted
• 1:02:51
  out now you've got michelle and then women in sports therapy then nip over to
• 1:02:56
  the theater for andrew and then yeah.
• 1:02:58
  Fantastic so that's great news and they're going to be with us next week to
• 1:03:01
  talk about wist women in sports therapy and what they'd be up to in the next
• 1:03:05
  year so very excited about that if you listen to podcasts you want to join us
• 1:03:07
  live for that and like i say just head along to It's a YouTube channel for Sports
• 1:03:11
  Service Association or Facebook.
• 1:03:12
  And there'll be links there. But for now, before I get, I must thank once again
• 1:03:17
  to Andrew McCauley. Thank you very much, Andrew McCauley. Thank you.
• 1:03:20
  And thanks to Andy Hoskins as well for your gems of information.
• 1:03:22
  As always, it goes so quickly with you guys, but there's just so much good information there.
• 1:03:27
  People, if you do have questions, then I said this last week and it caught on
• 1:03:31
  a little bit. We're getting more comments now on YouTube.
• 1:03:33
  That's why we use YouTube. We favor that over Facebook because the comments section there is great.
• 1:03:37
  Whether you're listening to this or watching youtube six months
• 1:03:40
  later just drop something in the comments it'll still show up
• 1:03:43
  on google because youtubers can obviously connect with google so if
• 1:03:46
  you do have questions stick them in google in youtube and i'll make sure they
• 1:03:50
  get answered and i'll even approach andy or andrew to comment as well if it's
• 1:03:54
  something they can help with so try and use youtube if you can people thanks
• 1:03:58
  everyone who joined us live uh take care of each other and hopefully we'll see
• 1:04:01
  some of you join us live next tuesday take care bye.
• 1:04:06
  Music.