Latest / Best of Business / Laura Marquez-Garrett: Counsel of Record for successful Meta lawsuit on what current Meta trial could mean for social media

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Laura Marquez-Garrett: Counsel of Record for successful Meta lawsuit on what current Meta trial could mean for social media · Best of Business

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks'd be follow
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  Speaker 2: Is Meta facing its big Tobacco moment? A landmark trial
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  Speaker 2: began this week with twenty nine US states accusing the
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  Speaker 2: social media company of deliberately designing an addictive product and
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  Speaker 2: targeting at children. Laura Marchis Garrett is an attorney with
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  Speaker 2: the Social Media Victims Law Center. Laura was the council
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  Speaker 2: of record for the successful lawsuit brought against Meta in
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  Speaker 2: March this year.
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  Speaker 3: Laura, good morning, good morning, great, thank you for having
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  Speaker 3: me here.
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  Speaker 2: Some are calling this Meta's big Tobacco moment. Do you
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  Speaker 2: think this lawsuit could be that significant?
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely? I think in the case of Big Tobacco, where
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  Speaker 3: you really saw the changes when the state attorney General's
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  Speaker 3: got involved, because they have the ability to stop these
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  Speaker 3: companies from harming people, right, they have the ability to
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  Speaker 3: force them to change their business model. So while I
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  Speaker 3: think we've been working up to it, I think the
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  Speaker 3: KGM lawsuit, the new Mexico AG lawsuit, those were all
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  Speaker 3: very critical steps. This is a big one, and it's
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  Speaker 3: a big one because you've got all of these state
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  Speaker 3: Attorney generals, including the state of California, which is where
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  Speaker 3: Meta lives.
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  Speaker 2: Could it change or end social media as we know it?
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  Speaker 3: Don't? I don't think it would. You know, I don't
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  Speaker 3: think it would end social media. But it's actually a
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  Speaker 3: good question, and I want to pull a piece of
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  Speaker 3: that question out that as we know it, so right now,
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  Speaker 3: these products have what I'll often referred to as digital
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  Speaker 3: nicotine in them. They're incredibly dangerous, they're designed that way.
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  Speaker 3: So I would say, look, I mean, if we can
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  Speaker 3: change social media as we know it by taking out
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  Speaker 3: the digital nicotine and making it something that is safer,
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  Speaker 3: then I think it's a it's a great step forward.
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  Speaker 3: And I do think that these lawsuits, all of them together,
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  Speaker 3: but again, these this group of state ags, I do
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  Speaker 3: think that these outcomes could change social media for the better.
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  Speaker 3: It could make it safer.
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  Speaker 2: As we see, we've seen lawsuits before, and we've seen
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  Speaker 2: two rulings against Meta this year. The fact that this
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  Speaker 2: one is a joint lawsuit by twenty nine states. How
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  Speaker 2: significant is that.
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  Speaker 3: It's big because the amount right so the New Mexico
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  Speaker 3: Attorney General that lawsuit went forward in the state of
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  Speaker 3: New Mexico and the financial outcome of that was almost
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  Speaker 3: a billion dollars. It was maybe nine hundred million. With
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  Speaker 3: one individual twenty year old you have six million. So
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  Speaker 3: when you have those one off lawsuits, you will see
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  Speaker 3: smaller amounts that build up over time. But here you've
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  Speaker 3: got all of these ags together. California is four times
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  Speaker 3: the size of New Mexico. If you just went straight
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  Speaker 3: on the numbers, you're looking at twenty plus billion. And
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  Speaker 3: the goal here it's not the financial amount unfortunately, though,
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  Speaker 3: money is all these companies understand. When we can shift
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  Speaker 3: that calculation so that it becomes more expensive for them
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  Speaker 3: to addict and exploit children, and then that's when we're
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  Speaker 3: going to see real change. That's the only thing, unfortunately,
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  Speaker 3: that will incentivize these companies to stop harming our kids.
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  Speaker 2: Laura, Obviously these lawsuits are taking place in the UIs.
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  Speaker 2: If we do see change, is that global change or
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  Speaker 2: is that will that change just be determined towards the US.
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  Speaker 3: I can't imagine any country in the world being okay
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  Speaker 3: with these companies making their products safer in the US
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  Speaker 3: and not at home, right and and that's a big eie.
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  Speaker 3: So look, I don't see how these companies can keep
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  Speaker 3: harming kids because it just it's already been outrageous. But
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  Speaker 3: at the point at which you see these companies fixing things,
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  Speaker 3: making them safer, you know, look, we'll help SMVLC will
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  Speaker 3: head over to New Zealand and will help you change it.
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  Speaker 3: Like this is. This is insane. These companies are harming
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  Speaker 3: our kids. It's it's got to get better.
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  Speaker 2: You mentioned that it's not necessarily about the money, So
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  Speaker 2: what would a wind be here? Do you think? What
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  Speaker 2: would you like to see happen?
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's it's funny you asked that, because it's
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  Speaker 3: it's not And I work with so many families whose
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  Speaker 3: children have died as a result of these defects and
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  Speaker 3: these dangerous designs, and no amount of money is going
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  Speaker 3: to bring their kids back. And I'll tell you, for us,
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  Speaker 3: in some ways, the wind already happened, right, it's already in,
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  Speaker 3: it's already started. And for us, it was actually that
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  Speaker 3: KGM trial that first day when those parents who had
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  Speaker 3: been told they couldn't do this and they had they
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  Speaker 3: had no rights, and they had no way to get
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  Speaker 3: into court. That first day they walked into court. That
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  Speaker 3: was the win for so many we see the documents
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  Speaker 3: being unsealed, We see you know, scientists and researchers and
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  Speaker 3: government officials starting to see what these companies are doing.
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  Speaker 3: I think the win is already happening. We just need
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  Speaker 3: that realization and we need that moment where we shift
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  Speaker 3: the calculus for them and where they can no longer
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  Speaker 3: get away with harming our children by design, and then
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  Speaker 3: that's that's when things will change. So I'm not an
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  Speaker 3: optimistic person by nature, but I will tell you, having
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  Speaker 3: fought this fight for so many years and having seen
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  Speaker 3: everything that's happened, we're already there. We just have to
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  Speaker 3: not give up and keep forcing these companies to change.
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  Speaker 2: How long have you been fighting this, Laura?
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  Speaker 3: I so I left what we call big law. I
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  Speaker 3: was actually I worked on the defense side for twenty years.
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  Speaker 3: I worked in the corner office with a view of
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  Speaker 3: the space needle. And in January twenty twenty two, I
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  Speaker 3: have four small kids, I quit my job and I
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  Speaker 3: came over to SMBLC with our founder, Matt Bergman. And
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  Speaker 3: so it's been four almost five years.
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  Speaker 2: Meta is a very powerful, rich company. Do you think
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  Speaker 2: they'll find ways around the rulings brought against them? As
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  Speaker 2: they are.
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  Speaker 3: I think that I work with hundreds of families whose
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  Speaker 3: children have been harmed, many of them have been killed
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  Speaker 3: by these companies. I think Meta can try, and I
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  Speaker 3: think that Matt and myself and all of these families,
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  Speaker 3: we will never stop. So they may try. They always
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  Speaker 3: look for loopholes, but we were never going to stop.
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  Speaker 3: And I don't think any parent who really sees what
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  Speaker 3: these companies are doing will ever stop. So let them try.
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  Speaker 2: The counter argument to these lawsuits is always that it's
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  Speaker 2: appearance responsibility is someone who does represent the victims in families.
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  Speaker 2: What do you say to that parential responsibility is yeah,
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  Speaker 2: just too much.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. I would actually say it's funny because that's one
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  Speaker 3: of the narratives these companies like to use. But I'll
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  Speaker 3: tell you what. They're the ones deciding it. And a
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  Speaker 3: lot of times I like to tell people about this book.
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  Speaker 3: Sarah win Williams, she's a Meta whistleblower. She used to
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  Speaker 3: work there. I would say, read chapter forty four of
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  Speaker 3: the book Careless people go get it right now, Read
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  Speaker 3: chapter forty four. Chapter forty four describes a situation in
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  Speaker 3: which Meta they collect so many data points they could
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  Speaker 3: determine when our kids are sad, when their self esteems
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  Speaker 3: that they're lowest. So Meta actually goes out and collects
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  Speaker 3: those data points and then it goes to the diet
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  Speaker 3: diet advertisers, make up advertisers, health and fitness, and it says, hey,
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  Speaker 3: I got great news. I can tell you when teen
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  Speaker 3: girls aged thirteen to eighteen or at their lowest, when
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  Speaker 3: they take down the profile photo because they don't have likes,
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  Speaker 3: when their self esteem is rock bottom, and then I
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  Speaker 3: can hit them with your diet ad That is predation, right,
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  Speaker 3: That is something I like that chapter as an example,
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  Speaker 3: because there is no amount of screen time limits or
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  Speaker 3: parental controls that will ever protect your kid from a
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  Speaker 3: company that is preying on them like that. And that
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  Speaker 3: is what we see. And so it's you know, these parents,
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  Speaker 3: none of them are giving up responsibility, none of them
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  Speaker 3: are abdicating. I've got parents who would drive their child
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  Speaker 3: two blocks to school every day because they were worried
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  Speaker 3: about strangers. But they had no idea that the product
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  Speaker 3: in their home that was rated safe, that the school recommended, right,
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  Speaker 3: that they had parental control and time limits, and they
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  Speaker 3: had no idea what these companies were doing. And the
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  Speaker 3: other piece I guess I would say is if you
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  Speaker 3: look at addiction, Look, not every kid's going to get addicted,
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  Speaker 3: just like not every adult who smokes cigarette's going to
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  Speaker 3: get addicted. But we don't say one cigarette will be fine. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: that's what those screen time limits are, right, Like, hey,
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  Speaker 3: just one one little hit of cocaine a day and
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  Speaker 3: you should be fine. And that's the piece of it
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  Speaker 3: that we got to address.
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  Speaker 2: That was Laura macus Garrett there talking about the new
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  Speaker 2: Landmark trial that began this week with twenty nine states
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  Speaker 2: accusing me of the social media company of deliberately designing
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  Speaker 2: an addictive product and targeting it at children. Some of
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  Speaker 2: the things that they would like to see and endto
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  Speaker 2: includes ending like counts, infinite scrolling. They want to get
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  Speaker 2: rid of them filters, They want to change its dopamine
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  Speaker 2: manipulating recommendation algorithms. They want to implement a process of
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  Speaker 2: parental verification for teenager unit users and autoplayer video content,
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  Speaker 2: so sort of things like that.
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