Latest / History Dark / He Testified Against the Crime Family _ (Sir Trevor McDonald Crime Documentary)

Transcript

He Testified Against the Crime Family _ (Sir Trevor McDonald Crime Documentary) · History Dark

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: In New York City today, they are still trying to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: figure out who wanted Joe Colombo dead. Carmine Galente was
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: rubbed out today as he sat in a Brooklyn luncheonette.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Three other men in trench coats and fedora hats surrounded
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: the car.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: And in close range bumped at least six boys each.
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: You compared killing someone to swatting a fly.
• 0:27
  Speaker 5: Simple. Because if I didn't, I couldn't kill a fly.
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: For three months, I traveled across America to try to
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: understand what life is like in the mafia. The men
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: I met were major figures, some of whom have never
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: spoken before.
• 0:45
  Speaker 6: So you put a gun to the back of his
• 0:47
  Speaker 6: head and shot him? Yeah, it was my hit, and
• 0:53
  Speaker 6: I was going to do the work. I don't like
• 0:55
  Speaker 6: to use the word pride, but at the time, that's
• 0:57
  Speaker 6: what I was thinking. I'm going to take pride in
• 0:59
  Speaker 6: what I do.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: Do they come after you?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Nobody has. Maybe after they hear it is the same way.
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: It's a life they may leave, but can never entirely escape.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: Nor can their families avoid the consequences. The first rule
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: of the Mafia is loyalty. Break it and you pay
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: the price. Nothing could justify killing somebody in that way
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: as your brother was killed.
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: Trevor.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: This is the life.
• 1:31
  Speaker 5: This is the life we chose. This is the life
• 1:34
  Speaker 5: he chose, the path.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: Your life is not your own.
• 1:40
  Speaker 7: You're property of this entity, this Cosa Nostra that goes
• 1:44
  Speaker 7: back hundreds of years.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: I'm about to meet someone typical of those who enforce
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: the Mafia's will on the streets. His name is John Elite.
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: He's also known as the Sheriff, and he's an accomplished killer.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: This was the day justice caught up with him in Brazil.
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: He'd been on the run for almost two years, hiding
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: out in 20 countries.
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: Elite made millions for himself and for the mob. The
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: FBI offered him a deal, his testimony against senior mafia
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: figures in exchange for a shorter prison sentence. He went
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: down for ten years. Recently released, he now lives just
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: outside New York, in his son's apartment. Nice to meet you.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Hello.
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: Hello.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: This is my buddy Steve.
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: Who are you?
• 2:59
  Speaker 8: Steve.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: Steve, hi. Friend of the family?
• 3:02
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 3:03
  Speaker 9: That's my son, Johnny.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: Hi, Johnny. Nice to meet you. You own this? This
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: is your house?
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: Well, rent.
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: We share it. He's the boss here.
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: He's the boss.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: How does it feel to be living with your son?
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: Oh, I love it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 6: They're my friends now, so we play all day. go
• 3:23
  Speaker 6: work out together, so it's good.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: Must be nice to have a relationship where you live
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: with your son, you get on together.
• 3:34
  Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, it really is.
• 3:36
  Speaker 6: After a lot of years, when I look back, they
• 3:39
  Speaker 6: were babies. I missed a lot of growing up, so
• 3:41
  Speaker 6: we're catching up now, so it's nice.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: John, what's it like living with your dad?
• 3:46
  Speaker 10: In the beginning, it was difficult, because growing up, I
• 3:50
  Speaker 10: never grew up with the man in the house. So
• 3:53
  Speaker 10: when he first came home, it was a little bit
• 3:55
  Speaker 10: of a butt of heads, and it took me some
• 3:57
  Speaker 10: adjusting and then him some adjusting to be able to
• 4:00
  Speaker 10: live because he wanted to be the authoritative figure, and
• 4:03
  Speaker 10: then I never had anybody really telling me what to do.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: How much did you know about your father's life?
• 4:10
  Speaker 10: I kind of knew, kind of. You know, you have
• 4:12
  Speaker 10: that feeling. You have that feeling where you kind of
• 4:15
  Speaker 10: just know. You can tell your dad is just that guy,
• 4:18
  Speaker 10: you know? But, like, being a young kid, you don't
• 4:21
  Speaker 10: realize to the extent of it. So then when you
• 4:23
  Speaker 10: find out to the extent of it, it kind of
• 4:25
  Speaker 10: like throws you back and you're like, whoa.
• 4:27
  Speaker 6: He did know, but he probably forgets. You know, I'd
• 4:31
  Speaker 6: come to the house with four or five guys, grab pistols,
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: we'd go take a ride. He was a kid at
• 4:35
  Speaker 6: the time, maybe seven years old, and he's crying and
• 4:38
  Speaker 6: he's saying, Daddy, can I come with you?
• 4:40
  Speaker 9: I says, come on, we're taking a quick ride. Instead
• 4:42
  Speaker 9: of coming with us, he ran in the house and
• 4:44
  Speaker 9: he went and grabbed his water pistol. So obviously he
• 4:47
  Speaker 9: did know.
• 4:47
  Speaker 6: Subconsciously he knew what we were up to.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: So are you saying there were times when On your
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: way to execute an order given by the family, by
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: the mob, your son came with you?
• 5:02
  Speaker 6: He was there on occasion or two, yeah, by accident.
• 5:04
  Speaker 6: We took a ride. I ran into somebody I was
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: supposed to hurt. I left him in the car.
• 5:09
  Speaker 9: I went out and I shot a guy and I
• 5:10
  Speaker 9: walked back in the car. He heard the gunshots. He goes,
• 5:13
  Speaker 9: what is that, Daddy? I said, oh, firecrackers, don't worry
• 5:15
  Speaker 9: about it.
• 5:16
  Speaker 6: And we got in the car and ambulances and police
• 5:18
  Speaker 6: cars came and I used to joke with him.
• 5:20
  Speaker 9: You went on your first hit at.
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: Seven years old.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: John, do you remember anything of that? water pistol story?
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: No, I don't.
• 5:26
  Speaker 10: But what I do remember is the guys that were around,
• 5:30
  Speaker 10: the money that was around, the cars that were around.
• 5:33
  Speaker 10: That's why I think subconsciously that I did know and
• 5:37
  Speaker 10: I do think I remember.
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: Did you hear the shot?
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: I don't remember.
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: I don't remember.
• 5:42
  Speaker 11: I really don't.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: Do you ever get accustomed to the life of hurting people?
• 5:49
  Speaker 6: I would be lying to you if I told you
• 5:51
  Speaker 6: I'm an alcoholic with Violence, not with alcohol.
• 5:55
  Speaker 9: So the first thing I think about.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: You were addicted to violence.
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you know... Or you were. I was.
• 6:01
  Speaker 9: Now I handle it.
• 6:02
  Speaker 6: I change myself and I've proven over the years I've
• 6:05
  Speaker 6: changed myself. And every day is a struggle. I'll lie
• 6:08
  Speaker 6: to you if I say it. If you said something
• 6:09
  Speaker 6: wrong to me on the street and I didn't know you,
• 6:11
  Speaker 6: my first thought in my mind is hurt that guy.
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: And when you talk about hurting people, what are we
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: talking about here?
• 6:17
  Speaker 9: Whatever it takes.
• 6:18
  Speaker 6: Whether I have to kill that person to put him down,
• 6:20
  Speaker 6: whether I just baseball bat him, Well, I punch him
• 6:24
  Speaker 6: in the jaw, the mouth, the nose, but hurt him.
• 6:26
  Speaker 9: Make sure that he's not going to hurt me or
• 6:28
  Speaker 9: my family.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: Unlike other members of the Mafia who have cooperated with
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: the government, John Elite has not entered the safe haven
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: of the Witness Protection Program. Instead, he chooses to live
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: out in the open, accepting that one day someone could
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: make him pay for his betrayal He now works in
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: the construction business and spends time with sons who still
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: live in the shadow of their father's past. If somebody
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: like you chose the wrong path and got into illegality,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: somebody could easily say, well, no surprise there. What do
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: you expect?
• 7:37
  Speaker 10: But then also, though, if you want to be realistic
• 7:39
  Speaker 10: about it, you say... Somebody, to the extent of everything
• 7:43
  Speaker 10: that he's done, why would I try and follow in
• 7:45
  Speaker 10: somebody else's footsteps? I get lost in his shadow. I'll
• 7:48
  Speaker 10: never overcome anything he's ever done or any of his
• 7:51
  Speaker 10: accomplishments or any kind of crime he's committed or anything
• 7:54
  Speaker 10: like that.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: Any of the many crimes.
• 7:56
  Speaker 10: Any of the many crimes, exactly. So what's the point
• 7:58
  Speaker 10: of doing it if I'm just going to get lost
• 8:00
  Speaker 10: in it? And I know if he got in trouble,
• 8:02
  Speaker 10: and he was, for the most part, for a little while,
• 8:04
  Speaker 10: the best at what he did. So if he was,
• 8:07
  Speaker 10: what makes me think I could do it? And what's
• 8:08
  Speaker 10: the point at that?
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: You said an amazing thing there. He was the best.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: He was the best at what he did. There's an
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: element of admiration for.
• 8:18
  Speaker 9: A little bit, yeah, 100%.
• 8:19
  Speaker 10: Did I admire him growing up and see what he
• 8:21
  Speaker 10: did and watch those movies and you say, wow, I
• 8:24
  Speaker 10: would love to do that?
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 8:26
  Speaker 10: But then when you do mature and you do get
• 8:27
  Speaker 10: older and then you think about consequences that come with it.
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: Elite is reconciled to the fact that his deal with
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: the FBI... makes him a marked man. He can do
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: nothing to change that now.
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: Not bad.
• 8:47
  Speaker 9: Still get a couple.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: Do you ever feel totally safe that nobody's after you,
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: nobody's coming to get you? Is that ever possible for you?
• 9:00
  Speaker 6: I always think that somebody, everybody's possibly, you know, could
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: go after you. You know, that's part of my life
• 9:05
  Speaker 6: since I'm a little kid. Since I'm probably in the
• 9:08
  Speaker 6: streets since I'm about 16, 17, I live that way.
• 9:11
  Speaker 6: So nothing's changed as far as that. I mean, my
• 9:13
  Speaker 6: issue isn't if three guys are over there with a gun.
• 9:15
  Speaker 6: Most guys that know me, if there's three guys that
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: would have gone in a knife, I go deal with that.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: You're not worried if somebody comes after you with a
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: knife and a gun. You feel you can deal with that.
• 9:28
  Speaker 9: It's like a ball player. It's a professional. He gets
• 9:31
  Speaker 9: up at the plate. He doesn't care who's pitching. He
• 9:32
  Speaker 9: gets up there with confidence. It's the same thing with me.
• 9:35
  Speaker 9: If you tell me a couple guys are waiting for me, I.
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: Can handle that.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: Why would somebody want to put a gun to the
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: back of your head now?
• 9:41
  Speaker 6: Well, you know, I have more than dozens of victims.
• 9:47
  Speaker 6: You know, I bring that count over 100 people. You know,
• 9:50
  Speaker 6: guys tell you.
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: You've been involved in hurting, killing?
• 9:53
  Speaker 9: Killing, shooting, batting, stabbing, yeah. More than 100 guys.
• 9:58
  Speaker 6: And, you know, guys talk that they did this, they
• 10:01
  Speaker 6: did that. For the most part, they're full of shit.
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: And when you grow up in the street, you know
• 10:05
  Speaker 6: who's fake and who isn't.
• 10:06
  Speaker 9: You don't want a guy's boisterous and he's full of shit.
• 10:09
  Speaker 9: I understand the life.
• 10:10
  Speaker 6: So when you go out and hurt as many people
• 10:12
  Speaker 6: as I did, you know, you're going to get hurt too.
• 10:14
  Speaker 6: Like I told you, I got hurt a lot of times.
• 10:16
  Speaker 6: I've been stabbed, baseball batted, hit by cars. You know,
• 10:19
  Speaker 6: whether I like it or not, it was my past
• 10:21
  Speaker 6: and it could be my future.
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: However you cut it, it's a huge burden to carry
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: around with you, your past, your past.
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: Without a doubt.
• 10:30
  Speaker 9: You know, I use one of my son's friends.
• 10:32
  Speaker 6: These guys are innocent young kids having a good time.
• 10:36
  Speaker 9: When he goes home, he puts his head on a pillow,
• 10:39
  Speaker 9: he can sleep sound.
• 10:41
  Speaker 6: When I go home, if somebody tells you they're sleeping sound,
• 10:44
  Speaker 6: there's something wrong with them if they were doing what
• 10:46
  Speaker 6: we were doing. When you're involved in what we're involved in,
• 10:49
  Speaker 6: you don't sleep sound. And I don't believe anybody that
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: says they are. I think they're lying.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: For the next two years, John must report to his
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: parole officer once a week. He must also stay clear
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: of violence. One other offence will send him back to
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: prison for a long time.
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: It was almost a year ago that the bloody battle
• 11:36
  Speaker 5: for power began. Rick Abini had been shot several times
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: in the head as he sat in this parked station wagon.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: These kinds of scenes have been played out so many
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: times in South Philadelphia.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: It's like an old gangster movie.
• 11:47
  Speaker 12: The table for nine guests where 50-year-old Steve Boris and
• 11:50
  Speaker 12: 54-year-old Jeanette Curl were shot was still cluttered with dishes
• 11:53
  Speaker 12: and unconsumed food. Police say Testa arrived and double-parked his
• 11:58
  Speaker 12: black Chevrolet.
• 11:59
  Speaker 13: And then went to his front porch, apparently triggering the
• 12:02
  Speaker 13: bomb when opening his front door.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: Philadelphia has seen some of the worst of mafia violence.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: But when tensions sparked all-out war in the 1990s, the
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: FBI struck an extraordinary deal with a notorious gangster. This
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: is Ron Previte. The evidence he provided brought down the
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: biggest mafia figures in the city. I was taken to
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: meet Previte one morning by a member of his crew.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: A one-time corrupt cop, Previte raked in millions with the mob.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: But unlike other gangsters I had met, I was puzzled
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: about why he had not spent a single day behind bars.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: He holds court among friends and associates at this local garage.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: Come in here. Hello.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: How are you, sir?
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: Ron, this is Trevor.
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: Mr.
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: Trevor McDonald. Ron, nice to meet you.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Nice to meet you, Mr.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: Trevor.
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: How long have you been... Who are these other guys, then?
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Who are they? He owns the building.
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: You own the place?
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: Yes. He owns the place.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: How's trade these days?
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Very good.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Are you the boss?
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: How do you tolerate these guys as part of a
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: regular hangout?
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: I do. I love them to come over here. I've
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: been my friend for a long time. Very long. How
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: many years do you think? All our lives, you might
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: as well say.
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: And they don't get in the way of the trade
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: at all?
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: No, not at all.
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: You make sure they don't?
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Yes, if I need help, they're here to help me.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: What was it, do you think, made you such an
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: effective member of the Mafia?
• 13:36
  Speaker 11: Me.
• 13:37
  Speaker 12: Me.
• 13:37
  Speaker 14: My own self. I am the Mafia. Because, not to
• 13:44
  Speaker 14: use that word, but I... I'm just an entrepreneur. I
• 13:48
  Speaker 14: just know how to make money.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: What did you think about the setup in the mafia?
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, they had codes, loyalty, silence.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I never thought nothing of it.
• 13:58
  Speaker 10: It's bullshit.
• 13:59
  Speaker 14: The only code is make what you can get. Take
• 14:02
  Speaker 14: what you can get. Who cares about that shit? They're
• 14:05
  Speaker 14: always trying to rob you. You have to protect what
• 14:08
  Speaker 14: you have. And when you're with them people, how do
• 14:11
  Speaker 14: you protect it?
• 14:11
  Speaker 13: What, are you going to sue them? You've got to
• 14:14
  Speaker 13: use violence. You've got to crack them. You've got to
• 14:16
  Speaker 13: put their heads in the goddamn... Another guy put his
• 14:20
  Speaker 13: head under the hood of a car, and I ripped
• 14:23
  Speaker 13: his skin off and gave him a shave.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: That's what you have to do, man.
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: There's no loyalty. We're outsiders.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Even though we were with them, there was no loyalty.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: When did you decide to cooperate with the FBI?
• 14:38
  Speaker 14: Well, I always gave them bits and pieces, but eventually
• 14:41
  Speaker 14: it came to the point where They were throwing so
• 14:44
  Speaker 14: much money at me besides what I was making.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: It seemed like a good deal at the time.
• 14:49
  Speaker 14: I still wish I didn't do it because I'd still
• 14:52
  Speaker 14: be out there doing crime.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: You still wish you were out there doing crime?
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: Sure I do. You can't get rid of that gene.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: You can't get an operation and they take it out.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Of course I do. But I'm not, but a little bit.
• 15:05
  Speaker 14: But anyway, the FBI threw so much money at me
• 15:09
  Speaker 14: and I'm very weak for money.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: How much money did you make? with that deal with
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: the FBI? How much did they pay you?
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: Over a million dollars.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: They paid you over a million dollars?
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's on document.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: You can get that. That's a document. It's out there.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: They had to provide it in court, all the money
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: they gave me.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: How did the FBI explain the deal with you? What
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: did they want you to do?
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: They wanted me to wear a wire.
• 15:30
  Speaker 14: They wanted me to catch the bad guys who they
• 15:32
  Speaker 14: can't catch without somebody in there. There's no such thing
• 15:38
  Speaker 14: as good police work investigating They do it with people
• 15:44
  Speaker 14: on the inside. Most crimes are solved with people on
• 15:48
  Speaker 14: the inside. They wanted me.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: I was already on the inside. That's what they wanted
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: from me, and that's what I gave them.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: How precisely did they put the deal to you? Did
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: they say, we'll pay you to wear a wire, to
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: be an informant, but you can continue doing your criminal
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: activities on the side? Right, right.
• 16:06
  Speaker 14: Well, I'll skip ahead a little bit, but when they
• 16:09
  Speaker 14: tell you you can continue doing your your criminal activities,
• 16:13
  Speaker 14: you can't do no violence.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, okay.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: Were you not worried about the fact that the people
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: you were informing on or against would come at you
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: at some stage?
• 16:25
  Speaker 14: I'm going to be perfectly truthful with you.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: I don't worry. I don't give a fuck. They know
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: where I'm at. Come on, I'm here.
• 16:34
  Speaker 14: I never worried when I was out there, and I'm
• 16:36
  Speaker 14: not going to worry now.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: What about life now, Ron? I mean, what do you...
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: Are you still a gangster? Are you still a criminal?
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: You're always a gangster. You're always a criminal when you're
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: a criminal.
• 16:45
  Speaker 14: All these guys trying to tell you that they're reformed,
• 16:50
  Speaker 14: and I'm going to hear them tell you it's bullshit.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: What are they going to do? Go be a painter?
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: How much are you going to make painting? What, are
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: you going to drive a tow truck? They're not going
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: to make the money driving a truck. They're liars. I
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: still do bookmaking. I'd do it today.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: But that's not legal, surely?
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: This is a show, isn't it? I'm not under oath,
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: am I?
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: No, no, no.
• 17:16
  Speaker 10: Okay.
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: But believe me.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Ron, you can say what you like. You can say
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: what you like to us. You know that. It's going
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: to stay just between us.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: What's that? I missed that.
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: He says, you can say what you like. It's going
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: to stay between us.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: It's going to stay between us.
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: That was good.
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: That was a good one.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: That was a good one, Trevor.
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: Making deals with gangsters like Ron Previte has been one
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: of the FBI's most effective strategies against the mafia. Previte's
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: evidence sent 25 of them to prison, including the boss
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: of the Philadelphia mob and a known killer, Ralph Natale.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: He agreed to see me.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit, if you know, about who
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the leading organized crime figures are in and around the
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: area that you grew up in and the area that
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: you operate your business in, if you know. I don't
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: know who the organized crime figures are.
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: Did you ask Mr.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Allen to get a. 22 automatic with a silencer?
• 18:31
  Speaker 10: I refuse to answer, Senator.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: At the time of that Senate hearing in 1982, Ralph
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: Natale stuck to his promise to respect the Mafia's code
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: of silence. He would serve a total of 28 years
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: in prison. This is the first time a former godfather
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: of the Philadelphia mob has ever agreed to a television interview.
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: Mr.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: Natale, I'm Trevor McDonald.
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: My pleasure. How you doing?
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: Very good to meet you. Thank you for agreeing to
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: see us. Mr. Natale, did becoming a Mafia boss live
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: up to all your expectations?
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: I think everybody in the world would love to be
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: treated like a god, even for 15 minutes in life.
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: They would almost do anything. Well, I was treated like
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: a god because I made my own way. I did
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: what I wanted to do.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: When you were a Mafia boss, you ordered a number
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: of killings.
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: Positively.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: That meant that you had the power of life and
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: death in your own hands. How did you exercise that?
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: I didn't care about taking a man's life. He wanted
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: to interfere with my life or attempt to take my
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: life or take what we had on the table, our food,
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: our food meaning, our money, our businesses. And that's the
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: only way we would... You enforce things out of two things,
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: either love or fear. Let me get a shot. It's
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: a terrible thing when you know that another man would
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: put a hole right in your head in a minute.
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: It's hard to do with a lot of people. It
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: wasn't for me. It really wasn't.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: How did you sleep at night?
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: Oh, I sleep beautiful. Sometimes I wonder, why don't I
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: feel like people? You know, when you ask me. Why
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: don't I feel like somebody? Gee, you killed this guy.
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: You killed one of the head of the Irish mob.
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: It went right, boom, bing, bang. Why don't you feel
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: bad for him? He was my friend at one time
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: until I knew what he wanted to do. You killed
• 20:47
  Speaker 5: your friend?
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: Because he wanted to kill me. He was trying to
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: hire a guy to kill me. Simple. I take him
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: off the count.
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: I'm still trying, though, to get at the emotion of
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: somebody who has in his hands that power of to kill,
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: that power of life and death.
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: Well, you know what I'm saying? We had a guy
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: in New Jersey, some guy who didn't show up and
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: do what he was supposed to do and this and
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: that there. And for two or three times, he sent
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: me an envelope with money at the racetrack. One of
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: my men brought it. He said, you know, here's your...
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: I said, what's in there?
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Money.
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: I said, you bring that back to him. You tell
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: him I want to see him. I want to talk
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: to him about something. He never showed. And I told.
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: This guy, that guy. I want him dead. I want
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: him dead now.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: Well, two, three weeks.
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: He still was breathing, laughing, having fun. You know what
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: I told him? One week, I'll be up there. I'll
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: kill him. If it ain't done within this week, that's
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: when I'm coming out.
• 21:52
  Speaker 10: Boom.
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: Three days later, he was dead. They were afraid. My
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: own people. Because I was mad.
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: How did you deal with people who crossed you, betrayed you?
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: Trade me. One man I gave a pass to in
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: my life. The rest of them I killed. Simple.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: Did you keep count of the numbers?
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: No.
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: Because that's when you're sick. You're sick then. Then you're
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: a serial killer. I'm not a serial killer.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: Because you kill more than one, you're a serial killer.
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: I didn't kill people because I got a thrill out
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: of it or the I killed people because that was
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: my life and it was his life.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Simple.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: If I said the name Ron Previte to you.
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: Oh, the big, big fat rat that owes his life
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: to me. The young man in Philadelphia. He betrayed you?
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: The young man in Philadelphia wanted to kill him. Ron
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: Previte is a bunch of shit. I saved him. I said,
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: once you touch that man, what do you want to do?
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: Kill everybody? Let's see what happens. And he eventually turned
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: on me For one reason. I saved his life. Anyone
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: go around saying any of this? I saved his life.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: I return to the question of how do you sleep
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: at night remembering having those memories?
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: I get up. I go to the bathroom. I take
• 23:22
  Speaker 5: a piss. And I go back. And I go to sleep.
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: What am I supposed to do? say prayers for their souls.
• 23:51
  Speaker 12: The raids began before dawn, and by the time they ended,
• 23:54
  Speaker 12: 110 alleged members of organized crime had been arrested in
• 23:58
  Speaker 12: three states. Street bosses, underbosses, consigliere's, capos, soldiers, and associates
• 24:04
  Speaker 12: with nicknames like Meatball, Vinnie Carwash, and Johnny Bandana.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: In the mafia, there are few certainties. But most of
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: its members know that one day the FBI will find them,
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: whatever they're called. Underboss, William Willie Fingers Cattola, showed up
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: at the grand.
• 24:25
  Speaker 12: Jury, followed by little lollipop Karna, signed in to appear
• 24:29
  Speaker 12: at the grand jury.
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: Cingolini is the son of imprisoned mobster Joseph Chicky Cingolini.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: 100 years for Anthony Tony Ducks Corallo. 100 years for
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: Anthony Fat Tony Salerno.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: The penalty was death, and Quack Quack knew it.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: I was about to meet someone known as the Yuppie Don,
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: and one of the richest gangsters of all time. His
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: brilliance for inventing new scams netted the Mafia over a
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: billion dollars. But when the FBI arrested him, things didn't
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: go quite as expected.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Other prisoners in the custody of U.S. Marshals find themselves
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: in handcuffs and leg irons watched by armed guards. For $ 7, 000
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: a week in cash and a promise of millions in
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: restitution later, Francise can live the good life of Beverly Hills.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: And now some of his former mafia partners say he
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: has pulled off his best con job ever on the
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: United States government.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: Trevor.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: Michael.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: How are you?
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much for letting me in.
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 25:35
  Speaker 10: Come on in.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: Franzi's most successful job for the mafia involved the setting
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: up of a network of companies which sold gasoline across America,
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: then cheated the government out of the sales tax. The
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: authorities promised him leniency if he testified against his bosses.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: But Franzese managed to avoid doing that and now lives
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: comfortably in California.
• 26:03
  Speaker 5: See, we have the view from up here. Oh, wow.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: And this is kind of my spot here.
• 26:08
  Speaker 15: This is where I.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Do all my work.
• 26:11
  Speaker 15: This is a nice set. Got my own TV. And
• 26:14
  Speaker 15: everybody knows when I'm in here, they don't cross that
• 26:17
  Speaker 15: line unless they ask me.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: There's an invisible line which they're not allowed to cross.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: Not really.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: This bit is yours.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: This is me.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: What did you actually do in your relationship with the authorities?
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: How did that work out?
• 26:28
  Speaker 15: I don't think I've ever said this before, but I
• 26:29
  Speaker 15: really led them down a primrose path, making them believe
• 26:33
  Speaker 15: that I would cooperate with them, but never intending to cooperate.
• 26:37
  Speaker 15: And it was kind of a dance that I had
• 26:40
  Speaker 15: to play for a while. And they bought into it.
• 26:44
  Speaker 15: because they knew that I could have been a valuable
• 26:45
  Speaker 15: resource for them. I knew a lot of people, and
• 26:49
  Speaker 15: I just played that game and used it until they
• 26:53
  Speaker 15: really put me on the spot and wanted me to
• 26:55
  Speaker 15: testify against a major figure who was also a close
• 26:58
  Speaker 15: friend of mine. And basically I refused, and that's when
• 27:02
  Speaker 15: I was violated on my parole and thrown into the hole,
• 27:05
  Speaker 15: and they were pretty upset with me.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: When you were living the mob life, how good was that?
• 27:13
  Speaker 15: You know, listen, look, I had my own jet plane.
• 27:16
  Speaker 15: I had a helicopter. I had a house in Florida.
• 27:19
  Speaker 15: I had a 7,000-square-foot house in New York with a
• 27:22
  Speaker 15: racquetball court and two acres of land. I had a
• 27:25
  Speaker 15: house out here in Marina del Rey, and I did
• 27:27
  Speaker 15: whatever I pleased.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: You made staggering amounts of money.
• 27:31
  Speaker 10: Yes.
• 27:32
  Speaker 15: Yeah, we were, at one point in time, I was
• 27:34
  Speaker 15: pulling in close to $ 10 million a week.
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: $ 10 million a week.
• 27:39
  Speaker 15: $ 10 million a week. It was, you know, we were
• 27:42
  Speaker 15: defrauding the government out of tax on every gallon of gasoline.
• 27:44
  Speaker 15: And we were selling 500 million gallons of gas a
• 27:48
  Speaker 15: month at 20, 30, 40 cents a gallon that we
• 27:51
  Speaker 15: were keeping. So it was a staggering amount of money. And,
• 27:54
  Speaker 15: you know, it became a problem at one point that
• 27:56
  Speaker 15: what to do with the money. So when you have
• 27:58
  Speaker 15: that problem, you.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Know, you're earning.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: And what did you do with the money?
• 28:02
  Speaker 15: You know, Trevor, some of it we put overseas, some
• 28:06
  Speaker 15: of it was in cash, and I always tell everybody
• 28:08
  Speaker 15: I had a lot of expenses.
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: Were you always pursued by people who felt that of
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: all this money you made, you must have kept some
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: of it?
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, until today I have people.
• 28:19
  Speaker 15: I mean, nobody would ever believe that I was broke,
• 28:23
  Speaker 15: that I didn't have any money. I could never convince
• 28:25
  Speaker 15: anybody of that. It's... I think the government still believes
• 28:28
  Speaker 15: that I got money stashed all over the world. I
• 28:30
  Speaker 15: get questioned about it all the time. Guys in my
• 28:33
  Speaker 15: former life, a lot of people believe that they think
• 28:36
  Speaker 15: that's the only reason I'm still alive, because one day
• 28:39
  Speaker 15: they're going to find this money and force me to
• 28:42
  Speaker 15: give it up.
• 28:43
  Speaker 5: Who knows?
• 28:43
  Speaker 15: And people say, well, Mike, you still have money buried somewhere.
• 28:46
  Speaker 15: And I said, listen, if it's there, I doubt I'll
• 28:49
  Speaker 15: ever get a chance to use it.
• 28:50
  Speaker 9: So what's the difference, you know?
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: Unlike the other Mafia figures I've met, Franzese has managed
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: to build a successful new life here on America's West Coast.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: It's a far cry from his early days, growing up
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: on the streets of Brooklyn. He'd been born into a
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: Mafia family, dropped out of medical school after two years
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: and joined the mob. Following in his father's footsteps, he
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: became a member of the Colombo crime family and quickly
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: rose up through the ranks. He was implicated in a
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: vast array of crimes and made it onto the FBI's
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: most wanted ball. His life in the Mafia came to
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: an end when he was indicted on 65 counts of
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: tax evasion, racketeering and grand theft. Michael agreed to show
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: me what he does for a living these days. It's
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: a business venture underpinned by his newfound faith and belief,
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: and one to which he's committed his life.
• 30:15
  Speaker 11: No one is so bad that they can't be forgiven.
• 30:18
  Speaker 11: Please give a warm Harvest welcome to Michael Franzese.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: Michael is now a devout Christian He tours the country
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: as a preacher, charging anything from $ 5, 000 per parents. He
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: breaks the Mafia's code of silence every time he speaks
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: about his life.
• 30:42
  Speaker 14: You know, a lot of people call it the Mafia,
• 30:45
  Speaker 14: but here in America, actually, among those that are in it,
• 30:48
  Speaker 14: they don't call it the Mafia at all, do they?
• 30:50
  Speaker 15: No, and here it's La Cosa Nostra. It means this
• 30:53
  Speaker 15: thing of ours, and it's similar to the Mafia.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: It's hard to believe that Michael Franzese's now very public
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: profile has not attracted the attention of his former colleagues.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: What would people in the mob think about the life
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: you now lead?
• 31:15
  Speaker 15: Well, most of the people are pretty upset about it.
• 31:17
  Speaker 15: I mean, I, you know, I still till today, I get, uh,
• 31:20
  Speaker 15: every once in a while, the FBI will come to
• 31:22
  Speaker 15: me and they'll tell me, Michael.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Be careful.
• 31:24
  Speaker 15: We're getting word from our informants. Uh, You know, your
• 31:27
  Speaker 15: name is coming up a lot again. People are unhappy
• 31:29
  Speaker 15: with you. So, you know, I think they just look
• 31:31
  Speaker 15: at it as a betrayal. And that's it at this point.
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: If they feel that you've betrayed them, what might their
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: reaction be?
• 31:41
  Speaker 15: Well, I mean, I've, you know, had a contract on
• 31:43
  Speaker 15: my life. I'll tell you where the blessing is for me.
• 31:45
  Speaker 15: The boss of my family, Persico, who was my boss
• 31:49
  Speaker 15: at the time, was now doing life in prison. He
• 31:52
  Speaker 15: was extremely upset when I walked away, and if he
• 31:55
  Speaker 15: were on the street, I would be in trouble because
• 31:57
  Speaker 15: I don't believe he would ever rest until I was
• 32:00
  Speaker 15: a dead man. But, you know, he's doing life in prison.
• 32:03
  Speaker 15: His son, who took over the family at some point
• 32:06
  Speaker 15: and had that same kind of feeling towards me, he's
• 32:09
  Speaker 15: doing life in prison. So it's almost like all my
• 32:12
  Speaker 15: enemies are either dead or in prison for the rest
• 32:14
  Speaker 15: of their lives, and it just worked out that way.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: Do you understand why people might be very skeptical about
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: somebody who occupied such a senior place in the mob
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: could now profess such a deep Christian faith?
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I understand that.
• 32:28
  Speaker 15: And part of what I tell people, if I was
• 32:31
  Speaker 15: in the audience listening to me, I don't know if
• 32:33
  Speaker 15: I'd believe me either because it is a pretty fantastic
• 32:37
  Speaker 15: transformation to be where I was and have the mentality
• 32:41
  Speaker 15: that I had back then and to be transformed into
• 32:44
  Speaker 15: what I believe now. You know, Trevor, when you come
• 32:47
  Speaker 15: to Christ, you don't get a lobotomy. I don't forget
• 32:49
  Speaker 15: anything that I did on the street, and I know
• 32:51
  Speaker 15: I'm capable of doing it again, but I fight hard
• 32:54
  Speaker 15: against those feelings, and that's how it's worked for me.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: I may quite understand why you have changed as a person.
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: Why do you feel the need to go around the
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: country publicizing what this faith has done for you?
• 33:07
  Speaker 15: You know, I never, this wasn't a plan of mine.
• 33:10
  Speaker 15: It just kind of happened. I've I'm probably the most fortunate,
• 33:14
  Speaker 15: most blessed person that you can point to because, honestly,
• 33:18
  Speaker 15: I should be dead or in prison for the rest
• 33:20
  Speaker 15: of my life. You spend 20 years on the street,
• 33:23
  Speaker 15: you are blessed if you can get out of that
• 33:25
  Speaker 15: and have a transformation. And I don't forget that. I
• 33:29
  Speaker 15: remember that almost daily.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: Michael's Transformations has given him the trappings of a comfortable existence.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: She's actually going outside to sign books.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: How do you want me to figure out?
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: But his family knows they'll never totally escape the shadow
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: of his former life.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Gotcha.
• 34:09
  Speaker 7: You could kill somebody, business, and go eat after that.
• 34:13
  Speaker 7: Just as callous as that. That's what Cosa Nostra is.
• 34:18
  Speaker 7: If you have a conscience, you're in trouble.
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: Guys talk that they did this, they did that. For
• 34:26
  Speaker 6: the most part, they're full of shit.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: I have.
• 34:31
  Speaker 9: More than dozens of victims. I bring that count over
• 34:34
  Speaker 9: 100 people.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: In his 25 years in the Mafia, John Elite's life
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: was scarred by violence. He says he's trying to put
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: behind him the memory of those he killed and the
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: many more he hurt. But how does a man, brutalised
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: by what he's done, adjust to a normal life? John
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: is taking me to meet someone who helps him keep
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: out of trouble and stay out of prison. What do
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: you think your friends in the mafia would have thought
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: if they knew you were seeing and confiding, to some extent,
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: in a therapist?
• 35:19
  Speaker 9: Well, a lot of guys in the life are dummies, so,
• 35:22
  Speaker 9: you know, they're morons.
• 35:23
  Speaker 6: They would think you're talking about actual crimes or something
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: because they wouldn't understand how that therapy works, and it's
• 35:29
  Speaker 6: not the case. You're more so talking about your personality
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: and the issues that are controlling your personality or your thoughts.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: You found it useful to see her? Yeah, very useful.
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: When I was under stress, they would obsess on illness
• 35:45
  Speaker 6: for some reason and not really what was at hand,
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: which was the violence that was going on in the street.
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: So it was kind of crazy what I was thinking.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: Instead of worrying about.
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: Shootings and killings and getting killed and who you kill,
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: I would redirect my thoughts to something ridiculous as a flu, say,
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: and over-exaggerate that. because I guess I didn't want to
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: deal with, you know, the reality of what was really
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: on my mind.
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: A couple of times a week, Elite sees his therapist.
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: Hi, hello. Welcome.
• 36:24
  Speaker 8: Come in.
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 36:26
  Speaker 8: You know the drill.
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: I certainly do.
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: How did you approach a therapy session with somebody who'd
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: had Such an extraordinarily violent life.
• 36:41
  Speaker 8: The first thing I wanted to know was what his
• 36:43
  Speaker 8: experience was in prison. And when I learned that he
• 36:47
  Speaker 8: had been in isolation for so many years, I knew
• 36:51
  Speaker 8: immediately he'd have to have suffered from post-traumatic stress.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: It's strange to hear you talk like that, because I
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: would have thought the first concern of yours would have
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: been not so much his isolation in prison, but what
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: he'd done to get himself there.
• 37:05
  Speaker 8: Well, I had to learn about his coping skills because
• 37:09
  Speaker 8: if I'm going to work with him, I have to
• 37:11
  Speaker 8: know how did he deal with the worst because if
• 37:16
  Speaker 8: he's out here and he wants to go straight, which
• 37:18
  Speaker 8: he's made very clear to me, I need to know, okay,
• 37:22
  Speaker 8: what are your coping skills when something really bad is
• 37:25
  Speaker 8: going to happen that you hate? How are you going
• 37:27
  Speaker 8: to handle that?
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Were you always surprised that a person with such a
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: violent past, with such an amazingly horrific past, would come
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: to someone like you.
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 37:40
  Speaker 8: And I'm amazed that he could even do that, because
• 37:46
  Speaker 8: I don't know, I really don't know that person. See,
• 37:50
  Speaker 8: I see the heart of John, not the horror. I
• 37:53
  Speaker 8: see what I call the heart of him, not his shadow.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: Is it possible for you to say whether John has
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: actually managed to turn his life around? So far, yes.
• 38:04
  Speaker 8: I can say that so far. But as far as
• 38:07
  Speaker 8: a future, I'm no fortune teller. I don't know what
• 38:10
  Speaker 8: anyone's future will be. I don't know if there's a
• 38:15
  Speaker 8: trigger that he won't be able to hold. So I
• 38:18
  Speaker 8: can't predict, but I can tell you so far, absolutely, yeah.
• 38:40
  Speaker 15: I have never, never seen any family of any member
• 38:44
  Speaker 15: of that life that hasn't gone through tremendous challenges and
• 38:47
  Speaker 15: struggles as a result of that person's membership in that life.
• 38:52
  Speaker 7: At 12 years old, I wanted to be a captain
• 38:54
  Speaker 7: in the Gambino family. That was my goal. Not to
• 38:57
  Speaker 7: be a lawyer, not to be president of the United States.
• 38:59
  Speaker 7: I wanted to be captain in the Gambino family because
• 39:01
  Speaker 7: that's what I idolized.
• 39:06
  Speaker 6: When I go home, if somebody tells you they're sleeping sound,
• 39:09
  Speaker 6: There's something wrong with them if they were doing what
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: we were doing.
• 39:15
  Speaker 9: Those days are done. I ruined that years ago. I
• 39:17
  Speaker 9: can't get that back.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: For as long as he could remember, John Elite dreamed
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: of becoming part of the Mafia. His story is typical
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: of many young men who come from neighborhoods like these.
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: That's where you grew up?
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, right through there.
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: It was all my friends lived on this block in
• 39:46
  Speaker 6: the back corner corner. Used to live in this house.
• 39:53
  Speaker 6: So this is very much your area? Yeah, this is
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: my area. This brings back some memories. We ran these
• 39:59
  Speaker 6: streets day and night from little kids as good kids,
• 40:02
  Speaker 6: and we ran them as we got bad, too.
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: What are your reflections, John, when you come back to
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: this place today?
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: Oh, so many memories, good and bad. And just, I
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: love being here. You just feel like you're back home.
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: Was it always a breeding ground for mafia crimes?
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: Oh, yeah.
• 40:19
  Speaker 9: As a kid, everybody in this neighborhood was involved with
• 40:21
  Speaker 9: the streets.
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: So I was educated here more in the mob life
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: and the street life than anything legitimate.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: Do you remember the first time you crossed the line
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: into the world of crime?
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: Depending on what you're talking about. If you're talking about
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: the line of crime of violence, as far as hurting somebody,
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: I was very young.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: As far as shooting somebody, I was probably.
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: about 20 at the time, 19 or 20 or so.
• 40:52
  Speaker 6: Baseball batting, 16, 17, that started.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: What was the incident when you shot somebody at the
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: age of 19 or 20?
• 40:59
  Speaker 6: Retribution for one of my other friends getting shot. So
• 41:05
  Speaker 6: I just went back and shot a guy that shot
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: one of my friends.
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: It was every day. It wasn't anything specific.
• 41:13
  Speaker 6: A guy goes to work every day and he delivers milk.
• 41:16
  Speaker 6: We went to work every day and hurt somebody, shot
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: somebody or killed somebody.
• 41:19
  Speaker 5: It was nothing. You get used to it after a while.
• 41:22
  Speaker 6: It was nothing but a regular day routine at work. Today,
• 41:29
  Speaker 6: John rarely comes back to the streets he once controlled.
• 41:38
  Speaker 9: We played baseball together when we were kids.
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: He has no reason to do so, and the risk
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: of reprisals remains. Elite accepts that as the cost of
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: attempting to change his life around. His life of crime
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: afforded him the luxury of millions in his early 20s.
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: Now, at 52, he has to start again.
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: These images conjure up a picture of what life could
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: be for you on the good side, but it also
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: talks about the horror of being in prison and on
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: the run.
• 42:27
  Speaker 9: I joked about this.
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: I never read the small print, because when you read
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: the small print, it's not all what it's cracked up
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: to be.
• 42:34
  Speaker 9: You watch kids out on the street today.
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: They see me, and some of them understand a little
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: bit about the life through family, through friends, and They
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: have a deluded version of it. Or they see me
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: and say, well, geez, he's a nice guy. Because they
• 42:45
  Speaker 6: only see me on the surface. They don't see the
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: other side of me when I was killing and hurting
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: people on a regular basis. And they can't really picture
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: it because they weren't there. You wish you could take
• 42:54
  Speaker 6: that kid and tell you, here, watch the other side
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: of me. If you think I'm such a nice guy,
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: watch me butcher this guy. And then understand, stay away
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: from this life because it's bullshit.
• 43:05
  Speaker 9: So you wish you could teach him. This is a
• 43:07
  Speaker 9: shortcut to hell.
• 43:09
  Speaker 6: You're going to live a good life, and then you're
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: going to suffer like no one's ever suffered before. You're
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: in solitary confinement. Guys can't do three weeks in solitary confinement.
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: I spent almost.
• 43:18
  Speaker 9: A decade locked down, a 23-hour lockup.
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: When you came out of a prison like that, did
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: you consciously decide to take another course in life, or
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: did you think, I must be more careful and not
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: get caught?
• 43:32
  Speaker 9: When I'm sitting in that cell in Brazil.
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: and everybody's turning on me, and I'm getting word through
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: smuggled phones, and I'm violent myself in that jail to survive,
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: and I'm saying to myself, I still believe in this.
• 43:45
  Speaker 6: Somewhere in my mind, I'm believing in something, and I'm
• 43:48
  Speaker 6: getting phone calls, well, your two cousins testified against you,
• 43:51
  Speaker 6: your other cousin testified against you, your two business partners
• 43:53
  Speaker 6: testified against you, and you start saying, where is all
• 43:56
  Speaker 6: this loyalty? Obviously, I believed in the Gambino family, which
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: is a joke. Those same guys, I didn't see them
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: giving an envelope to my kid's mother, who's my wife.
• 44:07
  Speaker 6: Where was that envelope for my children to live? When
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: guys are stealing my nightclub money, where's that guy that's
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: supposed to shoot him in the head?
• 44:15
  Speaker 9: Because I'm still in that life.
• 44:16
  Speaker 5: Where are they?
• 44:17
  Speaker 9: They tell me things are too hot. They hang up
• 44:19
  Speaker 9: phones on me. They steal my money. They didn't steal $ 10.
• 44:22
  Speaker 9: They were stealing millions.
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: And then I started realizing when I came back into
• 44:26
  Speaker 6: the States and I got the full paperwork, how many
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: guys turned on me.
• 44:31
  Speaker 9: And I says, well, this life's over. And I believed
• 44:34
  Speaker 9: in something that didn't exist.
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: And I learned to turn my cheek and go the
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: other way and live like everybody else does, like a
• 44:43
  Speaker 6: normal human being, and enjoy life the right way.
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: Can you ever leave that life entirely behind you? Can
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: you ever reach a stage where it doesn't in any
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: way impinge on your life now?
• 44:56
  Speaker 9: No, I don't think you can ever leave it entirely.
• 45:00
  Speaker 9: You know, I can use this.
• 45:02
  Speaker 6: A doctor's always going to be a doctor when he retires.
• 45:05
  Speaker 6: A ballplayer's always going to be a ballplayer when he retires.
• 45:06
  Speaker 6: A gangster's always going to be a gangster. But because
• 45:12
  Speaker 6: I quit doesn't mean the rest of the world quit.
• 45:15
  Speaker 6: And whether I like it or not, that past is
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: going to follow me. I just got to deal with
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: it the correct way now.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: For more than 100 years, the Mafia has always succeeded
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: in seducing young men into its service. Tonight in New
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: York City, it's estimated that there are more than 7,000
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: members still going about their business.
• 46:14
  Speaker 8: Thank you.