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In All Honesty · Everyone Has An Ex

0:10
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges
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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters this podcast
0:18
Speaker 1: is recorded on. We spend a lot of time talking
0:28
Speaker 1: and thinking about romantic relationships, searching for and finding that
0:32
Speaker 1: one person who'll enrich your life, who'll choose you and
0:35
Speaker 1: only you, even change your last name. But what about friendships?
0:39
Speaker 1: Those deep, unbreakable bonds. The ones who make your life
0:42
Speaker 1: better without the strings attached. Those soulmate-level best friends. They're
0:46
Speaker 1: the person you call with good news. The one you
0:48
Speaker 1: laugh and cry with. The one you run to when
0:51
Speaker 1: your heart is broken. They know your secrets, your history,
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Speaker 1: your dreams, every side and every version of you. You
0:57
Speaker 1: just couldn't imagine life without them. But you don't have to,
1:00
Speaker 1: because you know through all of life's ups and downs,
1:03
Speaker 1: the good times and the bad, they'll always be there.
1:06
Speaker 1: Won't they? I'm Georgia Love and this is Everyone Has
1:20
Speaker 1: an Ex-Best Friend. Come with me as we dive into
1:23
Speaker 1: a collection of stories about friendships past, through the eyes
1:26
Speaker 1: and the hearts of the very people who lived them.
1:29
Speaker 1: There's a very specific kind of friendship that really only
1:32
Speaker 1: happens once, the one you fall into at 16, when
1:36
Speaker 1: you think you know who you are but haven't quite
1:38
Speaker 1: figured it out exactly. And for Chloe, that friendship had
1:41
Speaker 1: a soundtrack.
1:42
Speaker 2: So we met in high school. We were in the
1:45
Speaker 2: same kind of mutual group. We became instant best friends.
1:49
Speaker 2: One of the first times we started talking and hanging
1:52
Speaker 2: out a lot more kind of outside of school is
1:54
Speaker 2: we both were going to a certain concert. We both
1:56
Speaker 2: really liked this band and we both were going to
1:59
Speaker 2: this band and found out that each other were there.
2:01
Speaker 2: We bumped into each other there. Like I was with
2:03
Speaker 2: my sister, she was with her sister. And after that,
2:06
Speaker 2: we both got like T-shirts of the band and then
2:08
Speaker 2: we both wore it and got to kind of connect
2:10
Speaker 2: in that way and then became closer and closer. We
2:14
Speaker 2: got a fair few more classes together and so we
2:16
Speaker 2: started hanging out a lot more. We had music together
2:19
Speaker 2: and then we started doing like some guitar and stuff
2:23
Speaker 2: in those classes and we also, we weren't very good
2:26
Speaker 2: and would always kind of distract each other and distract
2:29
Speaker 2: people around us. We had maths class together and we
2:32
Speaker 2: used to just call each other friction buddies because we
2:35
Speaker 2: didn't like fractions and all this different stuff. So we
2:38
Speaker 2: would be absolute ridiculous, silly people together and would make
2:42
Speaker 2: really dumb jokes, doing stupid things and we wouldn't really
2:45
Speaker 2: care how we looked to anyone. We just always were
2:47
Speaker 2: having a lot of fun and being silly. She had
2:50
Speaker 2: her license before I did and she had a really
2:53
Speaker 2: nice car and we would drive around and we would
2:56
Speaker 2: do weird dances in the car, you know, normal teenage stuff.
3:00
Speaker 2: She was probably one of the silliest, funniest people that
3:04
Speaker 2: I knew. She really let me kind of let my
3:07
Speaker 2: guard down completely and really had like an effortless kind
3:11
Speaker 2: of way of connecting. Like we would just be absolute goofballs.
3:15
Speaker 1: Fraction buddies, car dancing, matching band tees, their friendship was indestructible.
3:21
Speaker 1: So who was Jess? Ask Chloe back then and she'd
3:23
Speaker 1: have told you fiercely loyal, the kind of friend who'd
3:26
Speaker 1: tell you the truth to your face rather than talk
3:29
Speaker 1: about you behind your back.
3:30
Speaker 2: She was someone that is quite loyal and protective of
3:33
Speaker 2: her friends. So she wouldn't be afraid to kind of
3:36
Speaker 2: confront you and, you know, really be that honest kind
3:39
Speaker 2: of person, which I definitely appreciated because she wouldn't be
3:42
Speaker 2: talking about you behind your back or anything to other people.
3:46
Speaker 2: She'd just be like straight up in your face and
3:48
Speaker 2: telling you. And that was obviously something that I really
3:54
Speaker 2: valued as well. She was very kind and caring. She
3:56
Speaker 2: really would take notice in detail of a lot of
3:59
Speaker 2: different things. You know, if someone was struggling or, you know,
4:02
Speaker 2: I was struggling with something or wasn't happy about something,
4:04
Speaker 2: she would really support you and really try and be
4:08
Speaker 2: there for you no matter what. And yeah, look after
4:11
Speaker 2: all her friends. She was very fiercely loyal and she
4:14
Speaker 2: was a fierce good friend. She was very proud of
4:16
Speaker 2: the fact that she cared about her friends. She made
4:19
Speaker 2: a lot of time and effort for them as well.
4:21
Speaker 2: Jess was always the person that was organizing, reaching out
4:25
Speaker 2: to everyone, checking in if people were having a hard time,
4:28
Speaker 2: making sure that we bought something for someone's birthday, organizing
4:32
Speaker 2: accommodation for a group holiday. She was always that person
4:35
Speaker 2: putting in a lot of effort and making sure that
4:38
Speaker 2: everyone was getting together. She was a list person. She
4:42
Speaker 2: was like very detail orientated. And I think that sometimes
4:46
Speaker 2: she would get annoyed at me because I wasn't the
4:48
Speaker 2: best at organising or planning ahead of time. I just
4:50
Speaker 2: kind of lived in the moment a little bit more,
4:52
Speaker 2: whereas she was, you know, much more like wanting to
4:55
Speaker 2: plan things ahead of time. Like she would be asking
4:58
Speaker 2: me questions about what I'm doing on a certain time
5:00
Speaker 2: or a certain date so far in advance. I was like,
5:02
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I'm not even thinking about that yet.
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Speaker 2: Like my brain's not there. And whereas she would just
5:07
Speaker 2: be like trying to plan ahead.
5:09
Speaker 1: But not everyone was sold on Jess.
5:12
Speaker 2: My sister was quite nerdy and I was more in
5:14
Speaker 2: the popular group. And she just felt like that sometimes
5:18
Speaker 2: Jess was kind of attacking her a little bit. She
5:21
Speaker 2: would defend it by going, I'm just being honest, even
5:23
Speaker 2: if you kind of did get upset. She's like, I
5:25
Speaker 2: would want you to tell me. I would forgive a
5:27
Speaker 2: lot of those things because I knew that she was
5:31
Speaker 2: as hard on herself as she was being on everyone
5:33
Speaker 2: around her. And it wasn't necessarily, didn't seem like she
5:36
Speaker 2: was trying to do it to people, just bring them down.
5:39
Speaker 2: But she would notice the negative things in life. She
5:42
Speaker 2: would always be pointing those out. Whereas I'm someone that
5:44
Speaker 2: really looks on the positive side of life. She often
5:47
Speaker 2: couldn't take that feedback though, when you would tell her
5:50
Speaker 2: and bring things up with her. She would overthink things.
5:52
Speaker 2: She'd really like overanalyze different situations and really kind of
5:58
Speaker 2: dig into things. And she definitely admitted that she wasn't
6:01
Speaker 2: always happy. She did kind of admit that she was
6:05
Speaker 2: probably a bit depressed and anxious. And she did seek
6:08
Speaker 2: out help for that as well.
6:10
Speaker 1: Jess was sweet, protective, endlessly organised. But she was also 17,
6:15
Speaker 1: working out who she was, same as anyone that age.
6:18
Speaker 1: And nothing tests a teenage friendship quite like a run
6:21
Speaker 1: of milestone 18ths.
6:23
Speaker 2: She turned 18 before me and I was very excited.
6:25
Speaker 2: I dropped her out for her first night. I just
6:27
Speaker 2: got my license. Dropped her out for her first night
6:30
Speaker 2: out on the town and then, you know, helped her
6:34
Speaker 2: pick her dress. We celebrated her 18th. We had a
6:37
Speaker 2: massive party. I did a big speech for her and everything.
6:40
Speaker 2: So then coming to my 18, it was my first
6:43
Speaker 2: night going out on the town and we were out.
6:47
Speaker 2: We had a great night. I went out at midnight
6:49
Speaker 2: because it was Thursday night and you got shots for
6:53
Speaker 2: $ 2 back then. So we went out at midnight as
6:56
Speaker 2: soon as I turned 18 and we had a really
6:58
Speaker 2: fun night. We were dancing the night away. And then
7:00
Speaker 2: about 3 a.m. we were sitting out the back of
7:02
Speaker 2: the pub and she just kind of started telling me
7:05
Speaker 2: things that she didn't like about me and how I
7:07
Speaker 2: could improve and be better. She brought up the fact
7:10
Speaker 2: that I didn't make the best career choices at school,
7:14
Speaker 2: that I don't reply to things that I wasn't happy about.
7:19
Speaker 2: you know, my weight, but wasn't doing anything about it.
7:21
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to the gym with her, that I
7:24
Speaker 2: wasn't looking after myself. She was really just tearing down
7:27
Speaker 2: pretty much anything she could. could see how I could
7:31
Speaker 2: be doing so much better and that now I'm 18,
7:33
Speaker 2: I should really try and do better and be better.
7:36
Speaker 2: I was visibly crying, visibly upset, like absolutely devastated from
7:40
Speaker 2: what she was saying. And she just kept going and
7:43
Speaker 2: going and other people were there as well. So they
7:45
Speaker 2: saw it happen. And I ended up leaving and going
7:48
Speaker 2: home after that because there's no way I could go
7:50
Speaker 2: back out dancing and having fun when she was being
7:53
Speaker 2: quite awful. And then the next day, I guess she
7:57
Speaker 2: messaged me and she did apologize. And I didn't reply
8:01
Speaker 2: straight away. But I do remember then I kind of
8:03
Speaker 2: ended up just sweeping it on the rug and kind
8:05
Speaker 2: of letting it go.
8:08
Speaker 1: Swept under the rug. It's a phrase you're going to
8:10
Speaker 1: want to remember because it's about to become something of
8:13
Speaker 1: a theme as a birthday.
8:15
Speaker 2: So the next year, I also started dating someone that
8:20
Speaker 2: she didn't like that much so she would often tell
8:23
Speaker 2: me that he was not a good match for me
8:26
Speaker 2: during the next year though we still we had a
8:29
Speaker 2: lot of fun times you know we went to our
8:31
Speaker 2: first festival together you know we had a great group
8:33
Speaker 2: of friends we went to a fair few house parties
8:36
Speaker 2: these guys that lived down the road from me and
8:38
Speaker 2: we had a lot of fun and then on my
8:42
Speaker 2: 19th birthday oh I was living with my partner at
8:46
Speaker 2: that time that she didn't really like and a few
8:48
Speaker 2: of his friends were there She couldn't find her phone.
8:51
Speaker 2: So she straight away was accusing his friends of stealing
8:55
Speaker 2: her phone. And she was like, tell me where they live.
8:58
Speaker 2: And I said, she's like, tell me their addresses now.
9:01
Speaker 2: And I said, I don't actually have their direct addresses.
9:03
Speaker 2: I can tell you where they live because who knows
9:05
Speaker 2: someone's actual address. You know, I can tell you go
9:08
Speaker 2: straight down the street, left down the street and you'll
9:10
Speaker 2: find it. But I was like, I don't know the
9:12
Speaker 2: actual house number or the street. And she called me out,
9:15
Speaker 2: said that I was lying and trying to protect my
9:18
Speaker 2: partner and his friends. And then I didn't care about her.
9:22
Speaker 2: And she just absolutely flipped it in front of a
9:25
Speaker 2: lot of people at her house. She's like, you're dating
9:28
Speaker 2: a guy that, you know, he's got these loser friends
9:31
Speaker 2: and they've stolen my phone and you just keep making
9:33
Speaker 2: bad choices for yourself. So I worked in hairdressing and
9:37
Speaker 2: wasn't really enjoying it. I was getting really sore wrists.
9:40
Speaker 2: So I wasn't able to do it as much anymore.
9:43
Speaker 2: And she was telling me once again that, you know,
9:45
Speaker 2: I wasn't doing a good career move, that I really
9:48
Speaker 2: should stick with it. or I should get an office job.
9:51
Speaker 2: So she once again was telling me everything that she
9:54
Speaker 2: didn't like about me. I ended up yelling at her
9:58
Speaker 2: to leave. I just was like, I'm not doing this again.
10:01
Speaker 2: Get out. And I kind of stood up for myself
10:04
Speaker 2: quite a bit then and said, just get out and leave.
10:07
Speaker 2: That night, I still went out and didn't let it
10:10
Speaker 2: affect me as much. After yelling at her to just
10:12
Speaker 2: get out, I had some really good friends around me
10:15
Speaker 2: that were all really supportive and were like, don't worry
10:18
Speaker 2: about her. Like, let's go out and have a really
10:20
Speaker 2: good time. And we did, which was really nice. Then
10:24
Speaker 2: when we got home, I found her phone under the couch.
10:27
Speaker 2: So I just dropped it in her letterbox and let
10:29
Speaker 2: her sister know that it was there for her so
10:32
Speaker 2: that it was never stolen. After that night, I realized
10:37
Speaker 2: that I didn't want to be as close with her
10:39
Speaker 2: anymore and that I had some really good people around me.
10:42
Speaker 2: And I had really good friends that said that I
10:45
Speaker 2: wasn't this awful person that she made me out to be.
10:48
Speaker 2: So we didn't speak for a couple of years. We'd
10:52
Speaker 2: see each other here and there at different things, but
10:54
Speaker 2: we weren't close anymore and we wouldn't speak and she
10:57
Speaker 2: actually moved to Melbourne. And about a year after she
11:00
Speaker 2: moved to Melbourne, I ended up in Melbourne as well.
11:03
Speaker 2: And we did bump into each other a few times out.
11:07
Speaker 2: And she was really lovely and saying she just really
11:09
Speaker 2: misses me as a friend. She was really apologetic. And
11:13
Speaker 2: I think that that time from us not being friends
11:16
Speaker 2: for a couple of years, she really did miss that.
11:18
Speaker 2: And she made a lot of effort and was really
11:20
Speaker 2: kind to me. I didn't straight away let her fully
11:23
Speaker 2: back into my life. It did take me a lot
11:25
Speaker 2: of time. We ended up kind of reconnecting and went
11:28
Speaker 2: to a few concerts together and a festival and And
11:32
Speaker 2: we ended up becoming quite close again. And then her
11:36
Speaker 2: and her boyfriend broke up and I had already moved
11:39
Speaker 2: back home to Newcastle and she ended up moving back
11:43
Speaker 2: to Newcastle as well. And we were pretty much from
11:45
Speaker 2: then back to being best friends and spending all our
11:49
Speaker 2: time together. We were both single. So we were both
11:52
Speaker 2: like really in our single girl era and having a
11:55
Speaker 2: lot of fun. And it was a really fun time.
11:58
Speaker 2: But I feel like we probably reconnected once she became
12:01
Speaker 2: single again as well. And she was making a lot
12:03
Speaker 2: of effort, being really kind, you know, doing really lovely
12:06
Speaker 2: things for me. So that was really nice. We had
12:10
Speaker 2: a lot of mutual friends from high school. Obviously, we
12:12
Speaker 2: kind of had grown up and made other friends as well.
12:14
Speaker 2: We did have one little core group that they completely
12:17
Speaker 2: understood where I came from and what happened. They were
12:20
Speaker 2: still friends with her. I had no problem with that
12:23
Speaker 2: when we weren't friends. Obviously, they were really happy when
12:25
Speaker 2: we did become close again because then we were able
12:28
Speaker 2: to all hang out together. But I think a lot
12:31
Speaker 2: of people did keep a bit of a safe distance
12:33
Speaker 2: from her because they knew how she could be if
12:37
Speaker 2: you were too close to her.
12:38
Speaker 1: But there were still some of the old habits that
12:40
Speaker 1: never went away.
12:41
Speaker 2: One of the main things is she'd always say that
12:44
Speaker 2: I was leaving her out. So I had made other
12:47
Speaker 2: friends and had a big friendship circle and she would
12:49
Speaker 2: often get quite upset or annoyed if she wasn't invited
12:53
Speaker 2: or included in everything I was doing, which was really hard.
12:56
Speaker 2: I mean, I would invite her to a lot of
12:59
Speaker 2: things and definitely... I really made her be in part
13:04
Speaker 2: of my other friendship groups that I kind of had
13:06
Speaker 2: made during that time we weren't friends. And she would
13:10
Speaker 2: often say that when we were even in those friendship groups.
13:13
Speaker 2: And so I invited her to a birthday dinner with everyone.
13:18
Speaker 2: And she came and then after the next day, she'd
13:21
Speaker 2: send me a message saying that I didn't include her
13:25
Speaker 2: in any conversations I just turned my back to her
13:28
Speaker 2: I was trying to leave her out and for me
13:31
Speaker 2: I was like that's not my intention or I'm so
13:33
Speaker 2: sorry if I've done that or made you feel that
13:35
Speaker 2: way So the next time we were at a group
13:37
Speaker 2: thing all together with this same group, I noticed that
13:40
Speaker 2: she was on her phone in the corner. And so
13:43
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to make an effort to
13:45
Speaker 2: bring her into the conversation and make more of an effort.
13:48
Speaker 2: So I was like, hey, come over and like, hey, Jess,
13:50
Speaker 2: come over and chat with us about this. Like, what
13:53
Speaker 2: do you think of this? And she in front of
13:55
Speaker 2: everyone kind of stood up and was like, you've just
13:57
Speaker 2: been leaving me out and barely speaking to me all night.
14:00
Speaker 2: stormed out in front of everyone. And that was super
14:03
Speaker 2: embarrassing for me because all my friends, that group of girls,
14:07
Speaker 2: they were like, she's not very nice to you. There's
14:10
Speaker 2: a reason that you don't need to babysit her. You
14:13
Speaker 2: have invited her. You've made that effort. You don't need
14:16
Speaker 2: to then sit and make her have conversations like you're
14:19
Speaker 2: not a babysitter. And then when you do, she gets
14:22
Speaker 2: angry and they just were like, oh, they just This
14:24
Speaker 2: group of girls I'm still really close with now, they're
14:26
Speaker 2: just like, she's just absolutely ridiculous. Like, that's not your
14:31
Speaker 2: job to do that. They just don't have any drama,
14:33
Speaker 2: nothing like that. We all just get along so well.
14:36
Speaker 2: So for them to kind of, they would make a
14:38
Speaker 2: real effort with her because of the fact that they
14:41
Speaker 2: knew for me it would kind of be hard if
14:44
Speaker 2: they didn't, I guess. The reason that maybe I would
14:48
Speaker 2: accept this is because it wasn't all the time. All
14:50
Speaker 2: of these, they were in between really nice things. So
14:53
Speaker 2: she would be spoiling me, organizing everyone to go together
14:56
Speaker 2: on a gift for me for my birthday. But then
14:59
Speaker 2: she would be making little comments and like really tearing
15:02
Speaker 2: me down. And the thing is as well, she wasn't
15:04
Speaker 2: intentionally a bad person and I knew that. She was
15:08
Speaker 2: as hard on me as she was on herself. So
15:11
Speaker 2: I knew that it was never intentional for her to
15:13
Speaker 2: be trying to make me feel like a really bad person.
15:16
Speaker 2: It's just that she was... obviously not feeling good about
15:19
Speaker 2: herself and felt like she was being left out. That
15:21
Speaker 2: was her perspective. She felt like that I wasn't writing
15:24
Speaker 2: back to her. I wasn't making an effort. And it
15:26
Speaker 2: was actually a reflection on how she felt about herself,
15:28
Speaker 2: not me. So I think I excused a lot of
15:31
Speaker 2: the behavior for a long time because I knew that
15:34
Speaker 2: she wasn't that happy and with anxiety and depression, you know,
15:37
Speaker 2: I wanted to be there for her. I wanted to
15:38
Speaker 2: help her realize that You know, she is a fun,
15:41
Speaker 2: great person. So it was hard because we would have
15:45
Speaker 2: a lot of fun and she'd be a great friend.
15:46
Speaker 2: But in the other turn, then she would be really
15:48
Speaker 2: harsh and critical. So it's like a weird dynamic. I
15:52
Speaker 2: knew with her anxiety and depression, she was that harsh
15:54
Speaker 2: and critical on herself. It wasn't... How awful she was
15:59
Speaker 2: to me. You know, she was that awful to herself
16:01
Speaker 2: behind closed doors. And I think a lot of people
16:03
Speaker 2: didn't see how bad kind of self-worth she had. Whereas
16:08
Speaker 2: I did know because I was in that inner circle
16:10
Speaker 2: and I really did know. So I knew that she
16:12
Speaker 2: was probably 10 times meaner to herself than what she
16:16
Speaker 2: was to me, which was really sad. I would though
16:19
Speaker 2: bring up things for her and that she was doing
16:22
Speaker 2: that would upset me. She would kind of get quite
16:24
Speaker 2: upset and then really down on herself. So it became
16:27
Speaker 2: really hard as well to say, you've done this, it's
16:29
Speaker 2: upset me because then she'd be really awful to herself
16:32
Speaker 2: then as well. So it also was hard. I just
16:35
Speaker 2: tried to keep it really positive and tried to kind
16:38
Speaker 2: of be that bright, bubbly, fun person that would hang out.
16:42
Speaker 1: That was the shape of things for the next little
16:43
Speaker 1: while until Jess decided to put some real distance between them. Literally,
16:48
Speaker 1: she went to Asia for a month.
16:50
Speaker 2: One of our mutual friends, Mia, was living there and
16:54
Speaker 2: so they met up and did some travelling around together.
16:57
Speaker 2: So she was spending a lot of time with Mia
16:59
Speaker 2: in Asia and we were exchanging messages, still talking, and
17:04
Speaker 2: she was kind of letting me know though that she
17:08
Speaker 2: was feeling like Mia was leaving Jess out of things,
17:11
Speaker 2: that they were going off and weren't always inviting her.
17:14
Speaker 2: She got sick at one point and they still went
17:16
Speaker 2: out without her. And she was kind of getting upset
17:19
Speaker 2: about that and talking to me about messaging me saying
17:22
Speaker 2: that she felt like that they were leaving her out.
17:25
Speaker 2: And it really made me realize that how much she
17:29
Speaker 2: was just doing it to whoever she was close to
17:31
Speaker 2: that This is normally what she's saying about me, but
17:35
Speaker 2: she's saying it to me now because I'm not there.
17:38
Speaker 2: So it made me really feel validated in the fact
17:40
Speaker 2: that it wasn't just me and it was also just
17:44
Speaker 2: anyone that she's close with, they're never going to kind
17:46
Speaker 2: of be good enough. While she was over in Asia,
17:49
Speaker 2: I did... really realised how much of a weight had
17:54
Speaker 2: been lifted and how much better I felt when she
17:58
Speaker 2: wasn't constantly around telling me who I could hang out
18:01
Speaker 2: with or making me feel pressure about not inviting her
18:04
Speaker 2: or leaving her out of things.
18:06
Speaker 1: Then, while Jess was still overseas, something happened that would
18:10
Speaker 1: put everything to the test.
18:12
Speaker 2: While she was in Asia, I found out I was
18:14
Speaker 2: pregnant and I didn't message her about it for a
18:18
Speaker 2: little while because I just knew that she'd kind of
18:20
Speaker 2: have something to say about it. I did end up
18:23
Speaker 2: messaging her about it and I had decided to have
18:26
Speaker 2: an abortion. So the day that she got back from
18:29
Speaker 2: Asia was the day I was going in for my appointment.
18:33
Speaker 2: Her first words to me when she saw me after
18:35
Speaker 2: not seeing me for months, knowing what I was going through,
18:38
Speaker 2: was that she said that she doesn't have any sympathy
18:41
Speaker 2: for me. I bought this on myself. I didn't want
18:44
Speaker 2: sympathy from her. I wanted support. I think in that moment,
18:48
Speaker 2: I almost didn't really realise or register what she said
18:51
Speaker 2: because I was obviously in my own head about to
18:55
Speaker 2: go into this procedure. I honestly didn't quite register with
18:59
Speaker 2: me until later. One of my friends picked me up
19:03
Speaker 2: from that appointment and we had such a lovely time
19:06
Speaker 2: together afterwards. You know, she went and bought me my
19:08
Speaker 2: favorite food and we had a really lovely time. And
19:12
Speaker 2: it kind of made me reflect on what Jess had
19:14
Speaker 2: said to me earlier. And I kind of repeated it.
19:17
Speaker 2: And my friend's face was like, I can't believe she
19:19
Speaker 2: said that to you. And that kind of helped validate
19:22
Speaker 2: as well, made me realize how bad that was.
19:25
Speaker 1: And it didn't stop there.
19:27
Speaker 2: Soon after that, that's when I got a haircut and
19:29
Speaker 2: she said that it looked awful.
19:31
Speaker 1: Or even there.
19:32
Speaker 2: I did find out after the abortion that I have
19:36
Speaker 2: a rare blood type. And so I have to get
19:37
Speaker 2: a needle if I ever decide to have a baby,
19:40
Speaker 2: because if my baby has a different blood type to me,
19:42
Speaker 2: it'll try and kill the baby. And I sent her
19:46
Speaker 2: a message about this and she said, it sounds made up.
19:50
Speaker 2: How do you know you have that? And I said,
19:53
Speaker 2: it's definitely not made up. So I just sent her
19:55
Speaker 2: a photo of the information sheet that I got given
19:57
Speaker 2: at the hospital for it. And she just wrote, oh,
20:01
Speaker 2: I guess it is real. Well, it's nothing to worry about.
20:03
Speaker 2: And I kind of started realizing and setting apart. There's
20:07
Speaker 2: a difference between being harsh and, you know, being honest.
20:10
Speaker 2: And there's a big difference between that and being awful.
20:14
Speaker 1: Chloe was still reeling from one of the hardest decisions
20:17
Speaker 1: of her life. Jess, meanwhile, had already moved on. to
20:20
Speaker 1: more important matters.
20:21
Speaker 2: She started telling me that then she was trying to
20:24
Speaker 2: plan her birthday soon after that.
20:26
Speaker 1: Oh dear, another birthday.
20:28
Speaker 2: Oh, she was very birthday orientated. She got really annoyed
20:32
Speaker 2: at me and sent me a really long message about
20:35
Speaker 2: how no one was making an effort in the group
20:38
Speaker 2: chat to book accommodation for her birthday. And I said, look,
20:43
Speaker 2: you know, I'm going through a lot at the moment.
20:45
Speaker 2: I'm not really in the headspace to be booking accommodation
20:49
Speaker 2: and everything. I'm happy to come. Look, I'm sorry you
20:52
Speaker 2: feel that way. I'll make more effort. And she just
20:54
Speaker 2: kept on kind of going on about this. I explained
20:58
Speaker 2: I was not going the best mentally. And she said, yes,
21:02
Speaker 2: but you're not making an effort for my birthday. So
21:06
Speaker 2: that was cementing the fact that I kind of wasn't
21:10
Speaker 2: wanting to be close with her anymore because it was
21:13
Speaker 2: really hurtful to me. We did have conversations about it
21:16
Speaker 2: because I was kind of starting to stand up for
21:18
Speaker 2: myself and saying, you know, I'm not leaving you out
21:21
Speaker 2: of things. I'm allowed to have other friends. And we
21:24
Speaker 2: had kind of decided that we were distancing ourselves from
21:27
Speaker 2: a little bit. And then I went out with some
21:29
Speaker 2: of my girlfriends. And one of them in particular, she
21:32
Speaker 2: really didn't like. We bumped into each other at the
21:35
Speaker 2: shops and said, let's go get a champagne and just
21:37
Speaker 2: like have a catch up. And then we put something
21:40
Speaker 2: on our story on Instagram and she straight away replied
21:43
Speaker 2: to my story saying, wow, you didn't invite me, of course.
21:47
Speaker 2: So the next day I messaged her and said, look,
21:49
Speaker 2: I don't know why you needed to say that. And
21:51
Speaker 2: she said, yeah, look, I just can't believe you wouldn't
21:54
Speaker 2: invite me. And I said, look, I bumped into her,
21:56
Speaker 2: number one. Number two, we were saying we were having
21:59
Speaker 2: some space from each other and Number three, you don't
22:02
Speaker 2: even like this girl that I was with. And she said,
22:05
Speaker 2: I know I don't like her, but I still would
22:07
Speaker 2: have appreciated an invite. And from there, then she said,
22:11
Speaker 2: I don't even think I want to go away for
22:12
Speaker 2: my birthday anymore. It seems like no one wants to
22:15
Speaker 2: go and just kind of made it a lot about her.
22:19
Speaker 2: And I was going through stuff as well. And I
22:20
Speaker 2: think for once I was like, well, no, I'm going
22:22
Speaker 2: through stuff as well, but I'm not like going to
22:25
Speaker 2: take it out and make everyone else feel bad. I
22:27
Speaker 2: really was trying to make an effort, but I also
22:29
Speaker 2: did say was still standing up for myself and being
22:31
Speaker 2: quite firm on the fact that I wasn't just going
22:33
Speaker 2: to I apologize for things that I didn't need to
22:36
Speaker 2: and I don't need to invite her to everything, especially
22:39
Speaker 2: if she doesn't even like the people I'm with. We
22:41
Speaker 2: constantly were kind of battling over things and it just
22:44
Speaker 2: felt like it was not the fun times anymore. We
22:47
Speaker 2: were just arguing. That's kind of when I said, look,
22:50
Speaker 2: right now, how we're going backwards and forwards like this,
22:52
Speaker 2: we're just fighting so much. And she really didn't see it.
22:56
Speaker 2: She was not as aware of it as me, whereas
22:59
Speaker 2: I was like, I do need a bit more of
23:01
Speaker 2: a break. And... Yeah, I just did try and kind
23:05
Speaker 2: of distance myself, but we were still making an effort.
23:08
Speaker 2: She did say at one point, I don't know why
23:11
Speaker 2: I'm so critical and harsh on you. And it is
23:14
Speaker 2: something I need to work on because I really just
23:18
Speaker 2: can't handle when you don't do things the way that
23:20
Speaker 2: I think you should. So she was making an effort
23:22
Speaker 2: to fix herself. She was going to her therapist again
23:25
Speaker 2: twice a week. So she was making active steps to
23:29
Speaker 2: work on herself. And she was making a real effort
23:31
Speaker 2: to be kind. and be nice and be thoughtful and
23:35
Speaker 2: like not, I guess, snap her tongue and be as
23:39
Speaker 2: honest kind of as she had been in the past.
23:42
Speaker 1: It was, by her own admission, a genuine attempt to
23:45
Speaker 1: change and one the rest of the group could see too.
23:48
Speaker 1: So when the festive season rolled around, the group booked
23:50
Speaker 1: a campsite to ring in the new year. What could
23:53
Speaker 1: possibly go wrong?
23:55
Speaker 2: Me and Jess were there A couple of days early,
23:58
Speaker 2: we road tripped down together and we had a really
24:01
Speaker 2: good time. It was like the old days. We were
24:03
Speaker 2: just laughing, singing, being silly, set up the campsite before
24:08
Speaker 2: all the other girls, Mia and all the other girls
24:10
Speaker 2: got there. And then the other girls came and she
24:14
Speaker 2: started with that more jealousy and saying that I was
24:17
Speaker 2: kind of leaving her out again. It came to New
24:20
Speaker 2: Year's Eve and the bathrooms were about, you know, 200
24:23
Speaker 2: meters from when we were staying. She had already gone
24:25
Speaker 2: to the bathroom. And me and Mia walked down to
24:29
Speaker 2: the bathroom. When we went down to the bathroom, I
24:31
Speaker 2: yelled out, oh, Jess, are you in here? And she's like, yeah,
24:34
Speaker 2: I'm in here. And I said, oh, I'll just wait
24:36
Speaker 2: out the front for you. I walked out the front
24:38
Speaker 2: and waited for her while Mia started walking back up
24:41
Speaker 2: to the campsite. Then she came out of the bathroom
24:45
Speaker 2: and walked past me and I was like, hey, Jess, Jess,
24:49
Speaker 2: did you not see me? Jess. And she just kept
24:51
Speaker 2: walking up to the campsite. And I was like, okay.
24:54
Speaker 2: I got up to the campsite. I was like, hey,
24:56
Speaker 2: did you not see me back there? She's like, of
24:57
Speaker 2: course I saw you. I saw that you just left
25:00
Speaker 2: me in the bathroom alone. Mind you, she went there alone.
25:03
Speaker 2: It's not a very scary place. We're at a caravan park.
25:06
Speaker 1: That was the spark. What followed was the whole friendship's
25:09
Speaker 1: greatest hits delivered at volume.
25:11
Speaker 2: And that's when she launched into leaving me out since
25:14
Speaker 2: the girls got here. We had quite a large argument.
25:18
Speaker 2: She was yelling at me and she said that I'm
25:20
Speaker 2: a show pony. And I was like, no, I'm an extrovert. So,
25:23
Speaker 2: of course, when other people are around, I do pick
25:25
Speaker 2: up on energy and I get more excited and I
25:27
Speaker 2: get more silly and like loud. And that's just who
25:31
Speaker 2: I am. That's who I always have been, though. And
25:33
Speaker 2: I don't know why you're bringing this up right now.
25:35
Speaker 2: That's who I am. And you've always known that. She
25:38
Speaker 2: brought up that I'm not good at replying to text
25:39
Speaker 2: messages and And of course, I then as well said,
25:43
Speaker 2: that's who I am. And I've never been someone that
25:46
Speaker 2: replies to text messages. So it's not like my behavior's changed.
25:49
Speaker 2: So why are you bringing that up? So I started
25:50
Speaker 2: kind of defending myself and saying, these are my core
25:53
Speaker 2: personality traits that you're tearing down and bringing down. And
25:56
Speaker 2: that's who I am. So you're the one who fought
25:59
Speaker 2: for this friendship and said you wanted to still be friends.
26:02
Speaker 2: I don't know why. Like, tell me why you want
26:04
Speaker 2: to still be my friend, because right now you're just
26:05
Speaker 2: telling me everything that you don't like about me and
26:08
Speaker 2: that you don't want to do. So she really just
26:12
Speaker 2: said I was a bad friend. I also said to her,
26:14
Speaker 2: I don't think any friend is ever going to meet
26:17
Speaker 2: up to your expectations. I wasn't feeling all these things
26:22
Speaker 2: that I kind of had felt in the past. I
26:23
Speaker 2: think I was pretty okay with the things she was
26:27
Speaker 2: saying because I kind of was like, I know that's
26:29
Speaker 2: not me as a person.
26:30
Speaker 1: Jess stormed off into the actual dark. and the group
26:34
Speaker 1: made a decision that at one time Chloe would have
26:36
Speaker 1: thought was unthinkable.
26:38
Speaker 2: We went down to the beach for midnight because people
26:40
Speaker 2: were letting off fireworks and stuff and had our speaker
26:44
Speaker 2: and we're just being really silly and ridiculous. And I
26:47
Speaker 2: was really glad I was still able to kind of
26:49
Speaker 2: have a good time. I didn't let it ruin my
26:51
Speaker 2: night and still really had a good time with my friends.
26:54
Speaker 2: We weren't talking badly about her. We were just trying
26:57
Speaker 2: to have a really good time, which was lovely. After
27:00
Speaker 2: we'd been at the beach for the midnight camp and everything,
27:02
Speaker 2: we went back to the campsite and she was there.
27:05
Speaker 2: She started getting angry again because one of the girls
27:09
Speaker 2: invited and said, do you want to come out for
27:10
Speaker 2: a drink? And she said, no, you guys didn't care
27:12
Speaker 2: about me when I walked off into the darkness. You
27:15
Speaker 2: left me so something bad could have happened and you
27:18
Speaker 2: just don't care and just started going off at them
27:21
Speaker 2: as well. That's when Mia butted in and said, I've
27:25
Speaker 2: seen the way that you treat Chloe and how you
27:29
Speaker 2: always are being rude to her, being awful, saying she's
27:32
Speaker 2: leaving you out. She always invites you. We always make
27:35
Speaker 2: you feel included. You know, if you don't, that's on you.
27:39
Speaker 2: You've been a really bad friend to Chloe and really
27:41
Speaker 2: kind of called her out. That was hard because I
27:45
Speaker 2: didn't want to get anyone else involved and make it
27:46
Speaker 2: feel like we were ganging up on her. But at
27:48
Speaker 2: the same time, it was nice to kind of have
27:50
Speaker 2: that back up and know that I was not being crazy.
27:52
Speaker 2: I ended up sleeping in my car because I was like,
27:55
Speaker 2: I just, I don't even want to be in the
27:56
Speaker 2: same tent as her. I didn't sleep much. I actually
28:00
Speaker 2: went for a walk on the beach at like 4 a.m.,
28:02
Speaker 2: which is quite interesting on New Year's Eve or New
28:04
Speaker 2: Year's Day, the different things I saw. But I actually
28:07
Speaker 2: saw heaps of dolphins and some manta rays, watched the sunrise.
28:10
Speaker 2: And it was kind of like everyone else was asleep
28:12
Speaker 2: and it was kind of like a bit of me
28:13
Speaker 2: time to reflect on what just kind of happened. And
28:16
Speaker 2: it was really nice. And I felt quite good about that.
28:20
Speaker 2: The next day she said that she was getting picked
28:22
Speaker 2: up by one of her family members. I helped her
28:25
Speaker 2: pack up her tent but didn't really speak to her.
28:27
Speaker 2: Just like, you know, was like, oh, yeah, do you
28:30
Speaker 2: have that over there? Like, you know, it was very
28:31
Speaker 2: awkward kind of chit-chat. And then she got picked up
28:34
Speaker 2: and she came and said goodbye. I was at the
28:37
Speaker 2: pool because I kind of didn't want to be there
28:38
Speaker 2: when she got picked up.
28:39
Speaker 1: It was only after she'd gone that Chloe found out
28:42
Speaker 1: what the neighbours had made of the whole thing.
28:44
Speaker 2: Our people that were staying in the campsite next to
28:47
Speaker 2: us came up to me and said, were you the
28:49
Speaker 2: girl yelling or getting yelled at last night? And I said,
28:52
Speaker 2: I was getting yelled at. And he said... I just
28:55
Speaker 2: want to let you know that you handled it really well.
28:57
Speaker 2: And she was being really awful to you. And you
29:00
Speaker 2: just stood up for yourself in the most nice way.
29:02
Speaker 2: You weren't tearing her down, but you weren't taking it.
29:04
Speaker 2: And he was just this random little old man. I said,
29:06
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry if we kept you up. He said, no,
29:09
Speaker 2: it was great entertainment, you know, better than the wife snoring.
29:11
Speaker 2: So he was really sweet. So it was also nice
29:15
Speaker 2: to kind of hear from a complete outsider that I
29:17
Speaker 2: wasn't being crazy and that I handled it really well.
29:19
Speaker 2: I think it was like in that moment when we
29:21
Speaker 2: were having that big fight, I was realizing the things
29:24
Speaker 2: that she was saying to me. It was kind of
29:26
Speaker 2: like a bit of a light bulb moment that I
29:29
Speaker 2: was like, so you just don't like me as a
29:31
Speaker 2: person because all of the things that you're saying about me,
29:34
Speaker 2: they're just my core personality traits. A couple of days
29:37
Speaker 2: after I got back from camping, I realized that I
29:41
Speaker 2: still had some of her stuff. So I had some
29:43
Speaker 2: of that she left behind when we were camping. So
29:46
Speaker 2: I actually just went and put it in her mailbox
29:49
Speaker 2: and the I sent her a message saying, hey, just
29:52
Speaker 2: letting you know that I have popped your stuff in
29:56
Speaker 2: your letterbox. And I'm just letting you know as well
29:58
Speaker 2: that I am going to block you on social media,
30:02
Speaker 2: not for any other reason than I just know that
30:04
Speaker 2: it'll be hard to see you living life and doing things.
30:08
Speaker 2: And I just need a bit of a clean break.
30:11
Speaker 2: She came back and said, I think that's pretty ridiculous.
30:13
Speaker 2: After 10 years, that's all you've got to say. I said,
30:15
Speaker 2: I wish you nothing but the best. I have a
30:17
Speaker 2: lot more that I could say, but I just don't
30:19
Speaker 2: think it's worth bringing it up for us both. And
30:21
Speaker 2: I said, I'm too tired to argue with you anymore,
30:23
Speaker 2: but I wish her all the best.
30:25
Speaker 1: Ten years of friendship, ending with not a scene, but
30:28
Speaker 1: a letterbox and a text message. The calm after the storm.
30:31
Speaker 1: They still shared a friendship group, so the odd run-in
30:34
Speaker 1: was inevitable, and Chloe decided she'd have to make her
30:36
Speaker 1: peace with that fairly quickly.
30:38
Speaker 2: We did have mutual friends and I would see her
30:40
Speaker 2: at things and they were all, you know, kind and
30:43
Speaker 2: would check with me first and make sure I was
30:45
Speaker 2: okay with her being there. And I was okay with
30:47
Speaker 2: her being there. I really was. I was fine with
30:50
Speaker 2: seeing her. If anything, like, you know, it was nice
30:53
Speaker 2: because it would be a bit uncomfortable, but I was
30:56
Speaker 2: pretty okay with it all. Like I would see her
30:58
Speaker 2: at things. I would chat to her. I'd say hi.
31:01
Speaker 2: I never spoke badly about her to anyone and I
31:04
Speaker 2: didn't want anything bad for her. I think that obviously
31:07
Speaker 2: we weren't right as friends. We definitely weren't the right
31:10
Speaker 2: kind of friends for each other, but I hope that
31:12
Speaker 2: she learned from it. We did see each other around
31:15
Speaker 2: for probably about a year after and then I guess
31:18
Speaker 2: she kind of cut people off from that or they
31:20
Speaker 2: cut her off as well. I know that she has
31:23
Speaker 2: since done the same thing and I just have had
31:26
Speaker 2: not seen her in many years, many, many years.
31:29
Speaker 1: So where does that leave Chloe now?
31:32
Speaker 2: Soon after me and her stopped being friends, I ended
31:34
Speaker 2: up getting to the gym a lot and exercising heaps
31:36
Speaker 2: and I lost like 20 kilos and was doing all
31:39
Speaker 2: these great things for myself. I now know that I
31:42
Speaker 2: have ADHD and I got diagnosed about three years ago
31:47
Speaker 2: and it actually brought up a lot of stuff from
31:50
Speaker 2: that friendship breakdown when I was getting diagnosed with my psychiatrist.
31:54
Speaker 2: So it was quite emotional, but it helped me realize
31:56
Speaker 2: that she actually, even now, it really made me reconfirm
32:01
Speaker 2: that she didn't not like me she doesn't like people
32:03
Speaker 2: with ADHD I think like she can't handle those traits
32:07
Speaker 2: and she would find it lazy or that I was
32:10
Speaker 2: being lazy not replying to text messages now you know
32:13
Speaker 2: obviously we've come so far with mental health and stuff
32:16
Speaker 2: and we know that for me it is a lot
32:18
Speaker 2: harder and mentally challenging and everything for me to actually
32:22
Speaker 2: sit down and write back to a message is quite
32:24
Speaker 2: hard for me sometimes. So that's something that definitely came
32:28
Speaker 2: out during that a lot that I was like, oh,
32:31
Speaker 2: but it's hard as well because I really feel like
32:34
Speaker 2: I was there. I didn't always understand her anxiety and depression,
32:37
Speaker 2: but I always really tried to understand and help. I
32:40
Speaker 2: guess with mine, it was a little bit more invisible
32:43
Speaker 2: that we didn't know that I had ADHD, but yeah.
32:46
Speaker 2: It was definitely a big thing when I got diagnosed
32:48
Speaker 2: a few years ago. Me and my partner, I guess,
32:51
Speaker 2: have spoken a lot about this relationship even though it
32:55
Speaker 2: was a friendship that I had. I think it's been
32:58
Speaker 2: probably one of the ones that have shaped me the
33:00
Speaker 2: most out of even partner relationships before. You know, we
33:05
Speaker 2: spoke about a lot of different things that his actual
33:08
Speaker 2: ex and her would do that are quite similar so
33:12
Speaker 2: it was quite a bit of a bonding experience for
33:14
Speaker 2: us as well that we kind of almost had the
33:16
Speaker 2: same situation just obviously his was a romantic and mine
33:20
Speaker 2: was a friendship but it's definitely been one of the
33:23
Speaker 2: things that have come up for me much more than
33:26
Speaker 2: any romantic relationships that I've had before. I think that
33:29
Speaker 2: it was a harder kind of breakup than any relationship
33:32
Speaker 2: I've had. It changed my life more than anything and
33:35
Speaker 2: made me the person I am today more than anything
33:37
Speaker 2: as well. I'm a lot better at sticking up for
33:40
Speaker 2: myself now and having hard conversations. I think she definitely
33:44
Speaker 2: taught me how to have really hard conversations with people
33:46
Speaker 2: because I actually used to kind of avoid that. I
33:49
Speaker 2: definitely do miss her, the fun, amazing times and laughing
33:54
Speaker 2: that we had together. Like I definitely do miss that.
33:57
Speaker 2: I also, though, don't miss the bad side. And I
34:01
Speaker 2: think the bad outweighs the good. I have absolutely like
34:03
Speaker 2: no drama in my life now. And I'm just the
34:06
Speaker 2: happiest I've ever been. You know, I've got the best partner.
34:08
Speaker 2: I've got the best friends. And I also think, though,
34:12
Speaker 2: that I'm really glad that it all happened because it
34:14
Speaker 2: made me choose myself and stand up for myself a
34:16
Speaker 2: little bit more. And now I'm way better at doing that.
34:19
Speaker 2: And I'm also very careful the way I'm doing it,
34:22
Speaker 2: not doing it too harshly because I learned a lot
34:24
Speaker 2: of lessons from this. I just really appreciate it for
34:28
Speaker 2: what it was and really just value that time that
34:30
Speaker 2: we did have together.
34:46
Speaker 1: Everyone Has an Ex-Best Friend is a Minty Media production
34:49
Speaker 1: and proudly part of the Mamma Mia Network. This interview
34:52
Speaker 1: was conducted, written and produced by Linda Scott and narrated
34:55
Speaker 1: by me, Georgia Love. If you have a story you'd
34:57
Speaker 1: like to share, email everyonehasanx at mintymedia.com.au. You can support
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