Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / The Fascinating Life of Kimbal Musk

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The Fascinating Life of Kimbal Musk · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Welcome back to Misunderstood.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I'm Rachel. You could tell.
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  Speaker 1: So I could not be more excited to share today's
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  Speaker 1: episode with you. It was simply an honor to get
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  Speaker 1: to chat with Kimball Musk. The list of his accomplishments
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: are just too many to name, but I'm going to
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: give it a try. Have you ever heard of Google Maps?
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: He had a company that was called Zip2. It was
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: basically MapQuest before MapQuest, which was basically Google Maps before
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  Speaker 1: Google Maps. He's a tech entrepreneur who, along with his brother,
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  Speaker 1: Elon Musk, you may have heard his name, created this. And,
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  Speaker 1: you know, before we even understood how powerful the World
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Wide Web was going to be, their minds are just
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  Speaker 1: beyond what we can comprehend. And although Kimball and Elon
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  Speaker 1: had huge successes in the tech world, He decided to
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  Speaker 1: follow his passion to New York City and attend the
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  Speaker 1: French Culinary Institute, something he found as a passion as
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  Speaker 1: a child. So not only is he an extraordinary businessman,
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  Speaker 1: he's also a chef and an accomplished restaurateur. I've eaten
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  Speaker 1: at his restaurant. It's called The Kitchen. In a couple
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  Speaker 1: different states, I've eaten at the one in Chicago, and
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  Speaker 1: it is absolutely delicious. And with his new cookbook coming out,
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  Speaker 1: The Kitchen Cookbook, Cooking for Your Community, everyone will get
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  Speaker 1: a chance to try some of his great recipes at home.
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  Speaker 1: He raves about the tomato soup recipe, so that's going
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  Speaker 1: to be the first thing that I try. He also
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  Speaker 1: has a philanthropic initiative called The Big Green, which educates
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  Speaker 1: individuals and communities across the country about the importance of
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  Speaker 1: growing their own food. Honestly, I could have talked to
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  Speaker 1: him for hours. So without further ado, please enjoy my
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  Speaker 1: conversation with the one and only Kimball Musk. Kimball Musk,
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  Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me on Misunderstood. It's
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  Speaker 1: such an honor to have you here.
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  Speaker 3: Rachel, thank you. Thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 1: So the first question I have for you is, are
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: you ever seen without a cowboy hat?
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. I started wearing this cowboy hat
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  Speaker 3: in 2015. I work a lot of farms and work
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  Speaker 3: with food. And it was a funny thing where I
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  Speaker 3: would borrow people's hats and put them I had this
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  Speaker 3: amazing conversation with a very, very, very conservative farmer who
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  Speaker 3: was very nice. But he said, you know, it's actually
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  Speaker 3: not cool to borrow people's hats. And I was like,
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  Speaker 3: what do you mean? Well, a cowboy hat is about
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  Speaker 3: as close to someone's pet like you have a love
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  Speaker 3: for it. And so they took me to go get
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  Speaker 3: a cowboy hat. And I didn't really think I was
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  Speaker 3: that kind of person that could wear a cowboy hat.
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  Speaker 3: And I bought the hat. And then for a few months,
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  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, if I was on a farm, I'd
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  Speaker 3: wear the hat. But for a few months, I would
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  Speaker 3: watch the hat as I would leave my house. And
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  Speaker 3: Edward would literally would like talk to me. You don't
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  Speaker 3: have the courage to wear this hat. And I'd be like, man, okay.
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  Speaker 3: And I would have this strange sort of psychological conversation
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  Speaker 3: with this hat. And after a while, I was like,
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  Speaker 3: you know what? I do. And so I just have
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  Speaker 3: worn the hat ever since. And now it gets to
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  Speaker 3: a point where if I don't wear the hat, I
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  Speaker 3: feel a little naked.
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  Speaker 1: Right, right. So it's not like you're hiding that you've
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  Speaker 1: gone bald.
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  Speaker 3: No, I'm pretty good, actually.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, great head of hair there.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, I love it. All right.
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  Speaker 1: Well, so I wanted to start with you, like I
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  Speaker 1: do with a lot of guests, discussing your childhood. You
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  Speaker 1: were born in South Africa, and I want to know
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  Speaker 1: what it was like growing up there.
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  Speaker 3: Well, we grew up in Pretoria, which is, to give
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  Speaker 3: people maybe the best analogy, which is not going to
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  Speaker 3: sound great, is we were essentially in the Third Reich,
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  Speaker 3: the headquarters of the Third Reich of South Africa. So
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  Speaker 3: the apartheid government uh, was, was, you know, a half
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  Speaker 3: a mile from maybe, maybe a mile away from where
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  Speaker 3: I grew up. And, um, it was, it was about
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  Speaker 3: as psychologically intense as you can imagine. The, the, the
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  Speaker 3: violence in the community, the white on white, white on
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  Speaker 3: white violence, which people don't really grasp was, was the
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  Speaker 3: most intense that, that I experienced. Um, the Afrikaana apartheid
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  Speaker 3: government was very, very, um, aggressively against the English-speaking community
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  Speaker 3: and also the Jewish community. It was a very tense upbringing. Wow.
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  Speaker 1: And you grew up with, so you had two parents,
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  Speaker 1: you had a brother and a sister. Your parents divorced
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  Speaker 1: when you were young, correct?
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  Speaker 3: They divorced when I was young. My mom I'm still
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  Speaker 3: very close with, but my dad I don't really, I'm
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  Speaker 3: not connected with. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: So what was that like? Did you feel like you
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  Speaker 1: were growing up in a single parent household or was
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  Speaker 1: your dad part of your life when you were younger?
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  Speaker 3: So I was with my mom until I was 13
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  Speaker 3: and then, or 12 or 13, and then my brother
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  Speaker 3: had moved in with my dad. And so I felt...
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  Speaker 3: My dad is a very troubled human, so I just
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  Speaker 3: felt like my brother being by himself there was not right.
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  Speaker 3: And so I went to move in with him, and
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  Speaker 3: we ended up, you know, sort of dealing with our
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  Speaker 3: dad for our teenage years, who really is a mentally
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  Speaker 3: unstable human. But, you know, on the positive side of that,
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  Speaker 3: I always say my father taught me a lot. He
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  Speaker 3: taught me what not to do. Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's true. I mean, I have a lot of
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  Speaker 1: people on here that talk a lot about who there
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  Speaker 1: is a person now and how your childhood affected, you know,
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  Speaker 1: who you became. And, you know, I'm talking about psychologists
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  Speaker 1: and parenting experts and all this stuff. So obviously, you know,
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  Speaker 1: you get really good traits and really bad traits from,
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  Speaker 1: you know, who you're with and you either learn from
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  Speaker 1: them or you replicate from them. And I think I really.
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  Speaker 3: Have, I really have turned it into a positive learning experience.
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  Speaker 3: I think that, many people come out of situations, whether
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  Speaker 3: it's growing up in a part of South Africa or
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  Speaker 3: growing up in a difficult home can, can, can turn
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  Speaker 3: it into a victim story. And instead I, I, I
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  Speaker 3: turned it more into, well, what did I learn? And
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  Speaker 3: my cookbook that, that is, is now available, uh, wherever
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  Speaker 3: cookbooks are sold is it's really about community and it's
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  Speaker 3: cooking for your community. And what I found was, uh,
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  Speaker 3: For me, an incredible therapy growing up was if I cooked,
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  Speaker 3: my father would kind of leave me alone. He really
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  Speaker 3: respected that. And then when I would cook and serve dinner,
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  Speaker 3: it was one of those things where we would all
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  Speaker 3: sit down and connect. And in that household, there was
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  Speaker 3: none of that at all. And unless I unless I
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  Speaker 3: did that. Right. And so it was something that if
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  Speaker 3: I was ever with my mom, it was always just
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  Speaker 3: kind of a wonderful energy where cooking was. Let's all
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  Speaker 3: get down and sit down and have a have a
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  Speaker 3: joint communication. But it was also a protective mechanism when
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  Speaker 3: I was with my father where I could cook and
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  Speaker 3: have my space protected. And then also when I would
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  Speaker 3: sit down and we would eat the dinner, we would
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  Speaker 3: actually have a connected conversation. It was probably the only
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  Speaker 3: time that I was able to figure that out. But again,
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  Speaker 3: learning from that, I learned to cook for my community
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  Speaker 3: versus find other ways, maybe less healthy ways to deal
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  Speaker 3: with it. Right.
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  Speaker 4: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: So at a young age, it wasn't necessarily just about
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  Speaker 1: the fact that you like to cook. It was more
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  Speaker 1: about it really gave you the chance to create sort
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  Speaker 1: of a stability in what sounds like a little bit
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  Speaker 1: of an unstable environment.
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  Speaker 3: That's right. I think it continues to be a very
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  Speaker 3: meditative experience for me. So even when I cook breakfast
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  Speaker 3: every morning with either my kids or if it was
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  Speaker 3: just me, I'll do it myself. And it's very meditative
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  Speaker 3: to get your scrambled eggs right, even though I've done
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  Speaker 3: it thousands of times. Every morning, I'm like, oh, I
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  Speaker 3: could have done it a little differently there, a little
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  Speaker 3: differently there. And that meditation or meditative state, I think,
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  Speaker 3: is something I grew up learning how to do. And
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  Speaker 3: if people don't have that experience with food, I really
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  Speaker 3: encourage them to try it. And it's always with the
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  Speaker 3: simplest dishes you get meditative. It's not ones where you're
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  Speaker 3: really trying to tackle a complicated recipe. Right.
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  Speaker 1: So I've heard you talk about the fact that you
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  Speaker 1: started cooking more so around when you were 11 because
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  Speaker 1: your mom really was horrible at cooking, right?
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Before I met.
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  Speaker 3: My dad, my mom was a dietician. She is a wonderful,
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  Speaker 3: wonderful mom. But it was either the food I cooked
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  Speaker 3: was brown bread and plain yogurt. I'm not kidding. And
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  Speaker 3: fend for yourself on food that tasted better. But it
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  Speaker 3: was also a gift. You know, she was kind of
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  Speaker 3: getting me to go shopping and picking really any ingredient
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  Speaker 3: that I wanted. I remember shopping with her once. I
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  Speaker 3: think I was 11 and picking up the peppers. And
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  Speaker 3: just smelling them, just, you know, I wonder how this
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  Speaker 3: one smells compared to the next one. And she still
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  Speaker 3: remarks about that to this day where she just can't
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  Speaker 3: believe that that's her son because her mind doesn't work
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  Speaker 3: that way. It's very much a science-based, nutrition-based, very healthy,
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  Speaker 3: but not as joyful as it relates to food as
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  Speaker 3: I've always found it.
• 11:16
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  Speaker 3: Oh, Kimmage.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: I think there is a misconception about what is healthy.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: And I was going to get into this later, but
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: let's actually talk about it because some people think healthy
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: has to do with calories or picking a specific diet
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: like keto, protein only, you know, carbs only, whatever it
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: is for them. But that doesn't necessarily mean healthy, at
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: least in your book, right? I mean, it's more about, well,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: tell me what you think, you know, healthy.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, my mom, who spent 40 years as
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: a consulting dietitian with a focus on diabetes, so very
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: intense diet, practice, working to helping people save their lives,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: you know, by dieting. What she taught me was think
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: about color on your plate. So if you have a
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: lot of meat and potatoes, that's not giving you the
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: nutrition you want. So if you want some greenery, you
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: want some orange, you want some color. And then the
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: other one, which is something I've kept with me, is
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: really get into a routine with your food. So in
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: my case, I have breakfast, lunch, and dinner. In her case,
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: she has lunch. A small breakfast, a small snack at 11,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: small lunch, small snack at 3, and a small dinner.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: That's her. But it's the routine that gives you this
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: healthy relationship with food and your body. And what happens
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: with most people when they lose a healthy relationship with
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: food is they're not even conscious when they're eating. They're
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: eating out of either stress or anxiety. some other thing
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: that food gives them.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Loneliness, anxiety.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Loneliness, or they want a sugar high, or there's these
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: things that are unconscious. And her practice for 40 years was,
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: and she does this for many people that I knew
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: personally as well, is simply write down what you're eating.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Just write it down. And don't forget to write down everything.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: So if you want to eat at 2 in the morning,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: write it down. And it turns it from an unconscious
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: experience to a conscious experience. And that's how she really
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: was able to save many people's lives. Because when you
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: have diabetes, it's life or death. And that turning it
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: from unconscious to conscious eating was one of her great lessons.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really important. And I think the feelings that
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: are associated with it, once you start to write that down,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: obviously makes more sense of why you're feeling the need
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: to eat at, say, 2 o'clock in the morning.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Right, exactly.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, so you guys, as you're talking about your
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: childhood being 11, 12 in there, all of you have
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: turned out to be someone that we all know, including
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: your mother, which I think is fantastic. But at some point,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: you guys all went your separate ways. I mean, you
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: guys came to Canada, I think was the first stop, right?
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Is that where you guys went?
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Yvonne came out in Canada when she was 17.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: He and I are one year apart, so I was 16.
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  Speaker 3: He graduated, he was two years ahead of me in school.
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  Speaker 3: And so he actually, was able to leave two years
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: before me, or a year and a half. And then
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: in between that, my mom and my sister moved out.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: My sister was so determined to move that, this is
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: a funny story, my mom went to visit Canada to
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: check it out, to see where they might live or wherever.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: And my sister, who was 16 at the time, sold
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: the house. Sold it without my mom's permission.
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  Speaker 4: What?
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  Speaker 3: So it was, she engaged a real estate agent, she
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: sold the house, and my mom, of course, had to
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: sign the agreement. Right, right.
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  Speaker 1: I was going to say, can you do that in
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  Speaker 1: South Africa?
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  Speaker 3: But my sister had found the buyer, had agreed to
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: a price, negotiated a price, and even set up the
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: movers to take the furniture out. But so when my
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: mom came back, she really didn't have much, much of
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: a choice.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Much choice.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: So I'm curious, why Canada? Like, why not L.A.? So actually,
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  Speaker 1: my mom was born in Canada.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: So my mom, my mom has a Canadian passport and
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: we worked hard with her for us to get our
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: passports before we were 16. And so we all had
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: the freedom to immigrate. It was not a country you
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: wanted to stay in.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: It didn't really matter what skin color you were in.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: It still is a very, very difficult country to live
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: in today. And so we knew that she was born there.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: We knew she had a right to a passport. And
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: so we all kind of worked with her to reestablish
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: her citizenship and then pass it on to her kids.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: So tell me some of the first jobs you had
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: when you moved to Canada.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Oh, my first job. So I, man, it's amazing how
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: life just sends you in such different places. I was
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: obsessed with Wall Street. So I went to a top
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: business school in Canada called Queen's University in Ontario. I
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: worked very hard. I would cold call these CEOs of
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: major banks to get a, I got a job on
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Toronto's version of Wall Street. And I had gotten everything
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: that I had wished for. I had this intensity and determination,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: and I fought my way to get this job. I
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: got it. And it was the absolute worst fit for
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: me you can imagine. I hated it. For the finance
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: community that I was around, they were, at the end
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: of the day, really bureaucrats. They were.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: Not entrepreneurial. I mean, I don't know what I was thinking.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: My vision of Wall Street was very, very entrepreneurial class.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: And I'm sure there are many people who are like that,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: but I just didn't get to get exposed to them.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: And so I got back from my summer job, dropped
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: all of my finance courses, started to work, you know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: do physics electives and philosophy and engineering. And I then
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: did a house painting business and I did a franchise
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: in my community. And that's really where I found my
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: passion to be an entrepreneur, where it's very hard. You're
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: You're do or die. There is no guaranteed salary or compensation.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: You get what you work for. And you're knocking on doors.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: You're dealing with rejection all the time. And I was
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: an entrepreneur. And actually, I was pretty good at it.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: So I thrived. And it was a complete U-turn from
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: what I had told myself I would love to And
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: then I found out actually what I loved was the
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: energy of being an entrepreneur. Yeah.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Being an entrepreneur, I think it's so interesting because there's
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: like two modes. It's like, Namaste, or it's like, I'll
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: cut your throat to get one of the other. And
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: then also, you know, a big part of learning and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: being an entrepreneur is you have to know when to fail.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Like people always say failure isn't an option, but it
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: totally is. I think that's a huge part of being
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: an entrepreneur.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: But failure is a different term. Failure would be shutting
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: a business down. And I haven't done that very often.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: I've done that once or twice in my life. It's
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: really awful, really sad. But the lesson that I've learned
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: of getting used to losing, which is not to take
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: it so personally, whether it's simply you go and knock
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: on a door and you get a no or a
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: mean response all the way to you did a strategy
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: and it didn't work. OK, pick yourself up again and
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: keep going. And the alternative is not really there's no alternative.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: It's simply that's what it is to be an entrepreneur.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: And that has been that sort of concept of getting
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: used to losing has really helped me be a better
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: entrepreneur over my life.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Right. So I know at some point you decided to
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: sell your painting company and start, I think you talked
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: about taking a road trip with your brother, but is
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: that also when you.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Started to work with your brother? Yeah. So my brother
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: and I worked, we did a road trip in 1994
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: and we, we had not worked together at that point.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: And he's very much an engineering physics genius, as I'm
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: sure you guys, the audience would know that already. But,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: but for me, I was more of an, on the, sales,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: business side of things and love getting out there more extroverted.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: And we love each other. We're like, let's give it
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: a try. Let's see what it's like to work together.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: And he had an idea to do yellow pages for
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: the internet. And I was very good at product, so
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: I could really help design the interface for the end user.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: It was pretty cool. My brother and I were the
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: first literally the first humans to see door-to-door directions and
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: dynamic mapping on the internet. And we released it to
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: the world in 1995. And it was, we were sleeping
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: on the floor of our office. We didn't have any
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: money for even a home to stay in. We were
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: just kind of hoping for the best, you know, as
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: any entrepreneur does. I had a tiny little cooktop, stove
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: top in the office, but for the most part, we
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: ate a jack in the box. And I did everything
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: I could to do something as simple as pasta in
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: our office. But then that food smell would come up
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: and our employees didn't know we were sleeping in the office.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: So it was like a, it was a, I mean,
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: it was a very fun time and very romantic, nostalgic
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: time for us. And we were also in Silicon Valley
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: where I remember walking to Jack in the Box at
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I think maybe four in the morning. I'm not kidding.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: Like that late, you're just working that hard. And I
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: passed by another office and there was someone else sleeping
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: in their office but had their laptop on or their
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: computer on. And I actually went and knocked on the
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: door and I asked if he wanted to come to
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Jack in the Box with me. And he became a friend.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. So cool. So now this company was called Zip2, right?
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: And ended up, you know, what, four or five years
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: later selling for something like $ 307 million?
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a hell of a ride. You know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: we were building things during the internet days. There was
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: no revenue model to speak of. People didn't understand how
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: to make money in this space. So it was also
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: very hard because you're constantly just trying to survive. Yeah.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: But What we built was actually very valuable. This is
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: obviously something that people use five to ten times a
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: day now with Google Maps and Yahoo Maps. So we
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: were acquired by Compaq, which owned AltaVista and then got
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: sold to Yahoo and kind of integrated into what became
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Yahoo Maps. And very proud of that, having that sort
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: of fingerprint on the Internet.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's such an interesting story you tell
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: because you started just years before and you guys are
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: basically sleeping on the floor and then you sell this company.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, that must have felt amazing. And the same
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: thing of like this story that I've heard about you
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: guys taking this month long road trip together where the
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: car kept breaking down because you didn't have, you know.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: for it?
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dada's connections with. they've more cars
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: You have to put me in touch what's it called.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: It's dune adl where dune adl there's an accent on
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: the e do you mean yes i got it on
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: done deal cars.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Lift please you're going past oh kimmage.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: No done deal cars you couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: An expensive car. In those days, did you ever think
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: that Tesla was coming around the corner?
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Not at all. I didn't even think, honestly, that I
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: would stay in technology. When we sold the company, I
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: moved to New York. My passion was food, and I
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: loved the The connection it gave me, I didn't think
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: I would open a restaurant. What I thought I would
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: do is I would go to cooking school and I
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: would learn because I just thought, why not? I'm financially
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: free to be able to do that. And I kind
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: of have this approach to life, which is if you
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: really want to do something, the only thing stopping you
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: is you. And if I had talked out loud to
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: my family and friends, I'd love to go to cooking
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: school at some point. all right, here's my chance. So
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: I signed up for the French Culinary Institute in New York,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: one of the top schools in the world. It cost
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: more than go to Harvard. It was such an expensive school.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: I couldn't believe it. I was like, wait a minute,
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: I thought this was just a cooking school. But it
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: was truly one of the top schools, very French, of course,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: with the legends of New York, my teachers. And It
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: was a very humbling experience. I'd come from riding this
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: very high wave of selling a very successful company in
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: Silicon Valley, and all of a sudden, I was no
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: better than the gum on the shoe of my chef.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, I remember just being screamed at for hours
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: by this little French chef. I'm six foot five, and
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: this French chef was maybe five foot five, and the
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: spittle would still land on my face. It was like,
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: it was unbelievable. And I just had to, had to
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: take it. And if I, at any point I could
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: leave and I wouldn't get my money back. And that
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: was kind of their business model was you come in,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: you pay full price. If you survive through this, through this,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: it was like almost like bootcamp. If you survive through it,
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: they will consider you a French chef. And the, the,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: Out of a class of 25, only six people made
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: it through to the end.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: It was so intense. And I remember having this conversation
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: with Alam Salhak, who's now passed away. But I say
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: to him, do you guys really have to be that intense?
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know that I'm learning a lot here.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: And he would say... I don't even understand. What do
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: you mean? I don't think we're that intense. And it's
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: just a culture of this old school approach that I
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: just was, wow, I think I just need to change
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: my attitude. I actually am learning here. I may not
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: choose to be that way, but clearly when I left there,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: I knew what I was doing and I was, you know,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: broken down and then reshaped into their mold. You know,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: funny when it comes to the kitchen, our restaurant in, in,
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: In Colorado, I don't really use what I learned from
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: that school. I found this incredible partnership with Hugo Matheson,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: who's a chef trained. He's English, but he's trained in
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: the Italian style and found that to be there's so
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: much more joy. And it's much more similar to what
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: I grew up with, where you cook with joy, you
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: cook with a sense of ease. And and when I'm
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: when I met him, I cooked under him as a
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: line cook for about a year. And he taught me
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: so much about how to respect the ingredients, respect the process.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: And so after that time, Jen Lewin, my wife at
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: the time, She and I asked him to join us
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: as a co-founder in the restaurant, and we created the kitchen.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I'm curious about, you know, I want to talk about
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: taking risks for one second, because you had come from
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: this place where you sold this tech business, and you
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: had this money, and you've done some things in your
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: past that you realized were not your passion, did not
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: make you happy, and then you went to culinary school
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: because you knew that that was something that gave you happiness.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Do you think without the money sort of as a
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: safety net that you would have been able to take
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: a risk like that and just say, you know what,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go for something that might not have
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of money in it. I don't know where
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: it's going. You didn't think you were going to start,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: you know, restaurants that opened all over the place. Like,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: do you think that for people it's harder to take
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: a risk when they don't have a safety net? Or
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: do you think that that's irrelevant that people should just
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: take the risk?
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: You know, I think it's a hard question to answer.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: You know, I would say that The first business that
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: I did, which was the first business after school, which
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: was the Zip2 mapping door-to-door directions, we didn't think it
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: would be worth what it would be worth. That wasn't
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: why we got into it. I also didn't realize much
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: about the restaurant business either, so I didn't really know how.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: It's a different financial calculation. If you go to a
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: technology company in Silicon Valley, There's a decent percent chance
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: that it's worth a lot, like an outsized amount. And
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: that's where much of the wealth creation has been in
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: America over the past few decades. And that's not the
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: case in the restaurant world. It's not to say you
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: can't do well. You can make a good living. So
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: I would say that I really didn't have enough information
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: to know what it even meant to have a safety
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: net or what it meant to have a business that...
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: I think the truth of the fact is my Internet
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: business did not make money, and the restaurant business did
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: make money. It's just that you can sell the Internet
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: business for an outsized amount, and you can't sell the
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: restaurant business. So it's kind of a– I actually really
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: enjoyed the fact that you made a good product, very tangible,
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: and you checked your finances at the end of the month.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Your bank balance either went up or it went down.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: that was actually pretty calming. It was a calming feeling.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Whereas in the internet world, you just, you're constantly fighting,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: you know, losing it, running out of money.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: And then just back to that for one second, Elon
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: had said it was a time that he looked back
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: on with disappointment and frustration, even though it did well
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: and sold.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: So did you feel that same way or did you feel?
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: No, I think so. The, the, We were young, and
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: I think we learned a lot from Silicon Valley around
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: how to run a business. I think some of the
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: best training you can imagine. But we were both very
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: capable entrepreneurs, and I think the potential during those years
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: of making a much bigger impact on the Internet was
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: so great. And we were... We were young and we
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: didn't have control of the company and we were essentially
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: required to work with executives that, you know, that's a
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: sort of classic phrase, you know, the venture capitalists, we're
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: going to bring in some professionals to help you guys
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: make this work. And they actually weren't that good. You know,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: it wasn't like they weren't bad. They were not bad people.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: But when it comes to innovating and figuring out what
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: this business should be, I think that both my brother
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: and I have proven over the years that we're pretty
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: good at that. And so I would say it was disappointing.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: I don't think either of us could argue with the outcome,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: but it was a very, very frustrating few years. I
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: think that with some different stroke of luck, and, you know,
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: there's a classic phrase, would you rather be lucky or good?
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: I think... There was a lot of luck and there
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: was a lot of unluck that we got. I would
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: say I also don't have the dwelling on the past
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: issue that some people have. I simply don't. I just, hey, okay,
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: now that the company was sold, now what do we do?
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: For me, that's why cooking school called me. And And
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I've had several exits since then that have taught me
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: to not dwell on, just to really have more optimism,
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: focus more on the present and the future.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Right, right. Okay. So you go through the French Culinary
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Institute that you talked to us about. You graduate in 2001, correct?
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I graduated just before 9-11. It was just a crazy,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: I know you have your own 9-11 story and So
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: I had this incredible training. I was trained as a
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: French chef. I was very good at culinary, very bad
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: at pastry, but I knew what I was good or
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: bad at. So there's that. I also learned I was
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: very good at bread. It was like these sort of
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: things you learn about. And I left there thinking, I
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: wonder what I will do next. I didn't think I
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: would open a restaurant. And it was 18 months, very intense.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: I was very happy to be out of it. And
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: then September 11th of 2001, I live very close. I
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: used to live right close to the World Trade Centers.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: I woke up to the sound of the first plane
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: hitting the building. It was like, what was that? And
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: then the doorman rang the bell and said, you know,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: a plane is at the building, a plane is at
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: the building. You know, when you're a New Yorker, you think.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: some idiot has taken a small plane and crashed into
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: a building, you do not think in any way, shape
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: or form that that's what happened. So in true New
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: York form, I go take a shower and I say
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: to my wife, hey, let me go get a coffee.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: And I go down the elevator, I walk out the door.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: And as I'm walking out the door, the doorman says,
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: a second plane is at the building. And I'm like, oh, okay.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: I'm just still trying to catch up with what's going on.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Go across the road to the deli and there's many
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: more people in line than usual. So it's like 30
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: people in line at the deli. People are clearly not
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: sure what's going on. Everyone maybe just decided to go
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: to the deli. It was the strangest feeling. But there
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: was a radio playing and no one was panicking. It
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: was just more of a frozen feeling in the room.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: I knew the deli well. They were my neighbor. So
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: I just grabbed some coffee and left a couple of
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: dollars on the cash register. And as I was doing
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: that over the radio, I heard, we all heard that
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: the Pentagon was hit. And that's when you could feel
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: everyone panic and just start running. And I had to
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: go upstairs, grab my wife. We started running. We got
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: to Canal Street by the time the first building fell.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: And it was this white smoke coming to Canal Street,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: stopped just before us. Anyone who was in that white
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: cloud of smoke would have lifelong issues. We were both
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: on this list of... We were required by law to
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: have an annual checkup to see if we were... We
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: were affected physically by 9-11. Thankfully, we were not. But
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: anyone who was in that cloud of dust... The.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Car is beautiful. Where did you end up going for it?
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: Dunaidial.
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Do you mean.
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on done deal cars.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: Lift, please.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: You're going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: No.
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: Done deal cars.
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: I remember cars driving out of it at high speed,
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: people holding onto the outsides of the cars, covered, caked
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: in this white dust. And we got to Union Square,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: saw the second one fall. And, I mean, it was
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: like reality breaking. It was just so, so intense. We
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: ended up staying at my mom's place on 22nd Street
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: in Gramercy Park area. And my mom, who's a well-known dietician,
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: got a call to be offered a volunteer spot to
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: cook for the firefighters. And she, with a laugh, said,
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't really cook, but my son does.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: And then they asked a few more questions, and I
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: had a security pass because my home was close to
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: the World Trade Center. So I had both a diploma
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: and a security pass. So in the middle of millions
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: of people trying to volunteer to help, literally from all
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: over the world, yeah I was I had this pass
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: and and so they said well we'd love his help
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: no promises but come down and peel potatoes and see
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: see what happens so I was so honored to go
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: there and spent six weeks 16 hours a day Uh,
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: we were cooked out of the back of a restaurant called,
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: which was a fine dining restaurant. But completely destroyed on
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: the front, but the back of house, and there was
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: this underground area was was was in good shape. So, we,
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: we cook for the firefighters. We would drive a TVs
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: with coolers of food to this gymnasium. It was remade
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: into a to a cafeteria and. These firefighters would come
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: from these giant piles of melting metal. I know your experience,
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: you probably remember these piles of melting metal. They were awful.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, it smelled like the dentist. It was just
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: truly people were, it was just such a difficult thing
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: to experience. And these firefighters would come out of these
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: giant piles of melting metal. They would be covered in
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: their shells. They'd have this gray look on their faces.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: And we would feed them. And during a 45-minute period,
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: they would eat food and they would start to come
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: back to life. And you'd see light in their eyes
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: and they'd start talking to each other. And then they
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: would put their shells back on and go back out
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: into these melting metal piles to save American lives. It
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: was just one of the most beautiful things I ever experienced.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: I kind of told myself at that point, I just...
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: I just want to experience this for the rest of
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: my life. And for me, that meant opening a restaurant.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: And that's really what gave me the bravery to open
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: a restaurant. It wasn't so much the financial stability, because
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: when you're an entrepreneur, you really are wearing your heart
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: on your sleeve. Yeah, sure, there's a financial risk. There's
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: also a financial upside. But the failure is right there
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: for everyone to see, especially in the restaurant world. And
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: it really gave me this conviction. It wasn't just conviction.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: It was like I just did not have a choice.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: I knew I had to do it.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Well, number one, I just want to say thank you
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: for sharing that story. So many people, you know, have
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: heard stories of people who lost their lives and they've
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: heard families describing those people to keep their memory alive
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: all these years. But you rarely hear about the volunteers
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: from down there. And I just wanted to share with
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: you that, you know, when Andy, so I was 26,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Andy was 32. He was in the second building to
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: get hit by the first building that fell. And, um,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I was working at Bloomberg news that day and it's
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: so funny, like you're saying, um, when the first plane hit,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: we all thought, you know, we're on a newsroom floor
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: and we're watching it. And we immediately, like you assumed
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: it was some idiot that it was in a private plane, um,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: that had made a mistake. And, um, In true New
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: York fashion, like you're talking about, you know, you don't
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: have any anxiety about it. You know, I just went
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: back to work. I was calling airlines. I was calling
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: analysts to find out how this was going to affect
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: the stock market open. You know, and I had Andy
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: on the phone with me telling me what he saw
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: in the building across the way. Which, you know, of course,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: was terrible to hear and so upsetting. And I remember
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: he described it as seeing papers flying by his window
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: like butterflies. He said it was just so much. And
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: the first time that there was a sense of anxiety
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: was when he said, Rachel, I just watched somebody jump
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: out of the window.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Whatever they are going through and witnessing inside for it
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: to be a better option to jump. He's like, I, I,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I don't, I can't, I gotta get out of here. So, um,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: at that point we were hanging up to have him
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: go down the stairs, even though I could hear on
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: the loudspeaker, they said, do not move, stay in place. Um,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: and before I hung up my phone, um, the second
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: plane had hit, um, his, um, So I knew he
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: was still in there. And, you know, I was a
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: news reporter at the time. I was very good about facts.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: I knew that the plane hit underneath him and I
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: still wasn't worried. You know, I thought, OK, he'll go
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: to the roof because we didn't have this like creativity.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: It's a horrible word to use it, but I use
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: it all the time to think. that the buildings would
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: have fallen. No one thought that that could even be possible.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: So I still wasn't nervous. And then when it did fall,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: it was the most incredible feeling to watch him die really.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's hard.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: And then have my whole newsroom floor, the whole newsroom
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: floor got quiet and they all knew Andy and they
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: knew that he was reporting, you know, through me and
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: I was the one talking to the anchor stuck on
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: the news and we all knew the reality of it,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: but you just hold out this hope that seems so ridiculous,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: you know? So the streets, I was on 59th and
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: park at Bloomberg news and I went downstairs finally after
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: 12 o'clock and I Looked up the street and it's silent,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: but all these people are walking up Park Avenue covered
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: in that white soot that you're talking about. And I
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: went home. I stayed at work till 5 o'clock that day,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: just still not grasping what had just happened, really.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: And going back home and having every TV in my
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: apartment on and waiting for him to walk through the door,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: knowing that he wouldn't. And, you know, I kept those
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: TVs on for a month. I didn't you know, I
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: just anyway. So I want to get to the point
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: that a couple of days later I had seen on a. um,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: you know, on the internet or whatever, that his name
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: was found at one of the hospitals, which kind of,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: that was a weird thing that everybody kept seeing random names.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: So I went down to Belleville and, um, you know,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: we all made those flyers for people that were missing,
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: which I don't know where that came from, but we
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: all just went to Kinko's made a flyer. So I
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: wrote what he was wearing that morning, what he was like, sorry.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: And I went to Bellevue and he wasn't on the list, obviously.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: But the reason why I tell you this is because
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: there was like a food truck, kind of. There were
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: these people that all they wanted to do was help
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: us and wanted to hear the stories and wanted to
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: hear about those people. And it was people like you.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. It was people like you that made
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: such a difference. And it's obviously in my bones still today.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: And I think it's in yours that obviously changed the
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: course of your life, helping people like me. But I
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: just want to say thank you. Because those were all
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: nameless people to me at the time. And I didn't
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: know who they were. And I know you were helping
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: the firefighters. But it was a moment of just having
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: something normal. Because we were forgetting to eat, right? We
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: hadn't eaten for days. Anyway, still thank you.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: It took me like 10 years before I could even
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: speak about it. Yeah.
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: So sorry, let's move on. So you go from there
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: to Denver, right? You leave town eventually.
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Tell me how you started your restaurant.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had, I think, a subconscious desire or need
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: to not be in New York, I'm sure because of 9-11. Yeah.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: And looked for a place. We did a road trip
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: from New York to Chicago and Chicago West. So I
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: looked and drove through cities in Wyoming, Jackson Hole, Boulder, Denver,
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: Santa Fe, and then up the West Coast from San
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: Diego to Seattle. And the idea was to have a
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: place where we could have a family, where we could
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: have a restaurant. And I just loved the New York vibe.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: world-class neighborhood restaurant. I mean, you just, New York has
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: a lot of great restaurants, but the real magic of
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: New York are these little neighborhood restaurants you've never heard of,
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: unless you live there, that, uh, they know you, they
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: connect with you. They, they're, they put love into their food.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: And I wanted to recreate that in a, in a city, uh,
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: or a town with that, where we could also raise
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: a family. So one second. Um, We found Boulder. Boulder
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: is a wonderful town. If anyone has not been to Boulder,
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: it's worth checking out. It also has seasons. I grew
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: up in South Africa where I actually did have seasons.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: We had winter and summer and fall and spring. I
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: didn't like California in that it just didn't have seasons.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: I didn't like New York in that the winter was brutal.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: I was like, okay, let's go find a place that
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: I resonated with and Boulder has a similar, I think
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: there's some conscious thing of wherever you grew up, but
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: it has a similar altitude to where I grew up.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: It's a little higher, but it's similar. And at these
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: four seasons, it had a walkable town, kind of had
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: what I wanted. And my wife and I decided to
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: do our restaurant there. Well, first of all, I would
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: say we decided to spend a month there to just
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: get a feel for the town. But within a few days,
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: we were walking down the street, the main street in Boulder,
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: Pearl Street. My dog comes off the leash. It's a
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: black lab. It goes up to this person at a bakery,
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: just outside a bakery. And his name is Hugo Matheson.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: And he's this English guy who said he was a chef.
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: And I said, I was a chef as well. And
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: looking to start a restaurant. He was the chef. the
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: head chef at a nearby restaurant. And he invited us
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: over for dinner and just out of the blue. And
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, when you're in New York, that's
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: an immediate no. Like if someone randomly says come over
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: for dinner, that's a no. And I was like, well,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: wait a minute, we're not in New York. And I'm
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: pretty much a yes person, but still, this was a
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: big one. It's like, you know what, let's say yes
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: to this. I think this feels right. And we went
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: over to his home and kind of like I said earlier,
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: his Italian style of cooking, he did grilled sea bass
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: with some poached eggplants with some salsa verde, the recipes
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: in the cookbook. And the simplest meal you can imagine,
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: which is not something that I was trained on. I
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: was trained if it doesn't take you six hours to
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: cook the meal, it's not really, you know, really, you know,
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: putting the effort in. And he was able to do
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: it with the sort of touch of an Italian grandmother
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: who And I said, you know, I'd love to learn
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: from you. And I'm not 100% sure if Boulder was
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: a fit, but it felt good. And I have a
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: desire to open a restaurant. But until then, would it
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: be okay for me to work for you? And so
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: I worked as a line cook for him, $ 10 an hour.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: Didn't need the money, but I also feel like... The.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Car is beautiful. Where did you end up going for it?
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with? they have
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Where? Dunaidial.
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Do you mean.
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: Lift? Please.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: You going past Kimmage?
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: No.
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: Dundale Cars.
• 50:53
  Speaker 6: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: Everyone should be paid for good hours of work. And
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: so I did that for about a year. And during
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: that time, I got to know him as a good friend.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: And we talked about doing a restaurant together. And Jen, Hugo,
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: and I opened the kitchen in March of 2004.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: And what was the concept for that that made it
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: different or you thought it would stand out?
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: Well, we came up with the name The Kitchen because
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: that's where everyone hangs out at a party. The pretense
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: is dropped. You know, you can throw a party, you
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: can put some great decorations everywhere, but actually everyone just
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: ends up at the kitchen. And so we love that
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: sort of communal reference. We love.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: We are a pretty high-end restaurant, but if you go
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: to the restaurant, there's no tablecloths. At the time, it
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: wasn't very common for this concept of an upscale casual restaurant.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: It's now much more common, but back in those days,
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: if you didn't have white tablecloths, you might as well
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: be Chili's or Applebee's. Right. Right. And we just didn't
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: have that attitude. And in New York, if you went
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: to your local neighborhood restaurant, the food was fantastic and
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: it was no tablecloths, right? So it was something that
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: was done, but it wasn't well-known outside of New York.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: And so we had this vision of a world-class neighborhood
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: restaurant for Boulder. Hugo had this vision to work with
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: local farmers, which sounds weird to say this because we
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: became one of the founders of the Farm to Table
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: movement But the weird thing to say is I spent
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: years in New York training. No one ever talked about
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: where they got their ingredients. It just wasn't a thing.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: And here was this English guy who had this Italian
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: training where it was actually all about the ingredients. And
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: I loved his style of cooking. And I said, okay, well,
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: why don't you work on getting the farmers on board
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: and I'll work on the business side of the restaurant.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: We'll both be the chefs. And he had this wonderful
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: energy about him to recruit farmers into the restaurant world.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: At the time, they were very skeptical about working with
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: restaurants and really were discouraged with working with them. There
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: was no technology at the time. Everyone used paper chits.
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: It wasn't like you could email your orders back and forth.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: And that also was– it was 2004, so it was
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: an interesting time where I went after they agreed to
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: work with us, and I said– would you be open
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: to using a computer? Would you be open to using email?
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: And I remember taking one farmer to go to Best
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: Buy to buy them a computer. They paid for it,
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: but I was like, you're going to need help. And
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: I set them up with a computer, set them up
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: with a modem. Now what you do is when you
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: wake up in the morning, just email us what you've
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: got and we'll email you back what we want to order.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: And I know it's so, like today it's so commonplace,
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: but in those days it was like, an epiphany for
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: these farmers who, who, um, they work on a different
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: schedule to the restaurant. So the restaurant, the farmers wake
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: up at 6 AM and their day is mostly done
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: by night. Right. And the restaurant world, you're, you're working
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: till midnight and your, your, your day doesn't start till
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: 11 AM. So you have this kind of disconnect. And
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: so with email, you were, we were able to, to communicate. And, uh,
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: and that's maybe one of our great gifts to the
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: movement was, uh, saying to farmers, giving them courage that
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: they could add these exciting technological platforms that now are
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: commonplace and still do their business. You know, they don't
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: have to be a different person.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Right. So now how many of the kitchens exist?
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: So we have three. We have Boulder, which is now
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: almost 20 years old. And actually the motivation for the
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: cookbook is 20 years. We thought it was time. And
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: then Denver, we opened in 2012. And Chicago, we opened
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: in 2014. And we're going to open Austin, Texas in
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: 2024 next summer.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: Amazing. I've been to the one in Chicago a couple times.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Every time I go to Chicago, I go, and I
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: love it.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's great.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of my favorites. All right, so you obviously
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: were doing some very revolutionary things with the kitchen when
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: it started, like you said, using local farmers to change
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: your menu every day, depending on what they had. Zero waste,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: minimizing waste and composting. First wind-powered business in Colorado. Your nonprofit,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: Big Green, that was founded in 2011, right?
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: It seems to be the perfect extension of this.
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: How did that get started?
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Well, I think that actually came from us being a
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: world class neighborhood restaurant. We said to ourselves, how can
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: we be a good member of the community? And we
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: had an employee. His name is Bryce Brown, who was
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: one of our first employees who had a very strong
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: philanthropic ethos to him. And he said. he would love
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: to help us give back to the community. And we
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: were very open to it. We love Boulder. And he
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: started with, we were like, let's try and teach teenagers
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: cooking skills. And we thought, oh, that would be a
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: natural extension of it. What we learned was actually we're
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: a restaurant. We were super busy, very hard to give
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: people proper training. And then we started this idea of, well,
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: what if we took kids to farms because we have
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: all these farms we work with. That was beautiful, but
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: the farmers also could only do it on a certain cadence. Again,
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: they're also busy. And then Bryce, his name, he said,
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: you know, his grandfather did this thing in New Zealand
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: where they would put gardens in schools. And what about
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: if we tried that? And that's really where we sort
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: of hit our stride. And that was actually 2005, 2006.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: But it was not us. We were supporting him as
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: a philanthropy. Like, you know, writing the check, but also
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: giving him some support, you know, people support, volunteers, so forth.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: And then it wasn't until I had a very serious
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: accident in 2010. I went down a ski hill on
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: an inner tube, which is one of those children's runs.
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: It doesn't sound like a bad idea, but I'm six
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: foot five. It was a bad idea for going on
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: these tiny little tubes. The tube flipped, landed on my
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: head going 35 miles an hour.
• 57:34
  Speaker 6: Oh, wow.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: My chest, my face was pushed down on my chest,
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: ruptured my spine open. I had C6, C7, paralyzed for
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: three days. And I really had, you know, I'm spiritual,
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: but I'm not religious, but I really had this voice
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: of God just speaking to me, saying that I need
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: to dedicate my life to kids and food. And I
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: was just, you're reading from it, you're really in a,
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: you're paralyzed. So the doctors were also saying to me,
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: the way I broke my neck is very rare, but
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: they can actually repair the spine, get the blood out
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: of the spine, which is apparently causing the paralysis. And,
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: you know, at the same time, I can't even think straight.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: I'm hearing them say this and You know, the rational
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: part of me is like, oh, the doctor says I'm
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: going to be okay. But then I just look and
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: I realize I'm just tears were streaming down the side
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: of my face. I just really don't know what is
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: going on. But I had this very clear message. And
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: I had a successful surgery. I was horizontal for two months.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: I had two years of rehab. And the message didn't
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: go away. And so Bryce, who was working in Boulder...
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: He and I talked about it and I said, you're
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: going to keep doing what you're doing in Boulder. We'll
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: keep supporting you. I'm going to take a lot of
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: what you're doing and replicate it around the country. And
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: so we started working in Denver and we started working,
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: this is 2011. in Chicago, and we started working in Memphis,
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: and each city we'd go to would be, we'd learn more,
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: and we, Jen, who's no longer my wife, but we
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: were separating at the time, we were still very close friends,
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: she designed the Learning Garden, which now became We were
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: deploying 100 schools at a time where we'd go build
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: these outdoor classrooms. And I was really able to take
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: my Silicon Valley learning around scale and apply it to
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: something as simple as school gardens. And it was this
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: beautiful journey of going out. By the time COVID hit,
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: We were in 650 schools. Wow. We had 200 schools
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: in Chicago, 140 in Memphis, 50 in Indianapolis, 80 in Denver,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: 80 in L.A., and just working with 10,000 teachers, it
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: was phenomenal. And what was so sad about COVID was
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: obviously schools shut down, so you couldn't really work in
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: schools anymore. You can't do school gardens anymore. But even
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: after COVID was, well, they reopened schools, they wouldn't allow
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: outsiders onto the school grounds to just produce any COVID spread.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: And so for about two years, we couldn't do the
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: work we were doing. And so we did a huge pivot.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: We said, what if we take the trust we have
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: with our donors, the trust we have with the 10
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: years of experience, and we become a funder. So we
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: started to say, what about funding nonprofits that are in
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: Chicago or are in Memphis? They could take over the
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: work we're doing because getting on a plane, dangerous in
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: the pandemic, the schools didn't really want outsiders in. But
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: if you were a local nonprofit, they might be more
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: likely to skirt the rules because they're part of the neighborhood.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: And it actually worked really well. So over the past
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: couple of years, we have 150 nonprofits that we support financially.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: We bring them together as a community once a year
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: in Denver. When I say we, it's kind of like
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: this beautiful community. So they take the leadership themselves as well.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: We were part of it as well. But we as
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: a community, we learn from each other. We share knowledge,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: whether it's something as basic as accounting skills all the
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: way up to Here's a foundation that we think could
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: really work with more than one of our nonprofits together.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: And so this mission of connecting kids to food has
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: been a journey. And where we are today is, I think,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: maybe our most beautiful place ever.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: Where do you guys see yourself going in the year 2024?
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: Well, I think what we've learned with this community of
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: nonprofits is we started out with this idea of, We're
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: going to fund folks almost like an investor, like an
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: angel investor model to nonprofits. And what we've learned is
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: actually the community itself is so powerful that where we
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: see it going is really building more engagement of the
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: community so that as a nonprofit, you don't feel so lonely. Yeah.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: You may be the only one we're working with in Atlanta,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: but actually there's plenty. There's another one in Savannah and
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: there's another one in Memphis, another one in Nashville. And
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: so bringing folks together, whether you're just doing it for
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: pure bonding purposes or you're actually learning really powerful things
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: from each other, that has become a beautiful end in
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: and of itself. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: Let's get to the kitchen cookbook. Cause you said you
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: started the kitchen 20 years ago. And now this is a,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: first of all, the book is gorgeous. The photos, the
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: recipes are amazing. I was saying that I cannot wait
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: to be, you know, attempting this in my own kitchen. Incidentally,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I have a quick question for you. What are your
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: thoughts on these for people that cannot cook like me?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: But like I'm I'm, My show is supported by a
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: lot of different food companies, you know, HelloFresh, you know,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: all these different companies that deliver food to you already
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: somewhat prepped, you know, and cut up so that you
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: can make dinner or lunch, whatever, easier. Do you believe
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: in that kind of thing?
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: Do you see yourself going into that? A good friend
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: of mine is one of the co-founders of HelloFresh.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 4: Oh, okay.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: Patrick Drake. Hi, Patrick. I think cooking is wonderful. I
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: think cooking at home with your family is wonderful. I
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: think that you should do it in different ways. One
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: of the ways could be through HelloFresh. And one of
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: the ways could be as simple as one of the
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: recipes we've ever had in our cookbook is the best
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: tomato soup you've ever made, ever had, ever tasted. And
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: it's got four ingredients. And it takes a couple of
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: hours to do it correctly, but it's the easiest recipe
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: you can imagine. Or roasting a chicken. It's just the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: easiest recipe you can imagine. Those kinds of recipes, I
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: really believe it's easy for people to have in their
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: back pocket that they can say, look, sure, I'm going
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: to get some help sometimes. I'm going to use a
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: cookbook or I'm going to use a service like HelloFresh.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: And I have this in my back pocket. I know
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: how to pull a meal together pretty easily. So what
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: I did in the cookbook was at the kitchen, we
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: do seasonal American shared plates. We work with farmers or
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: I would say the suppliers of ingredients, the best quality
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: you can imagine. But many of our recipes are fairly complex.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: But what that gives us over 20 years, I was
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: able to choose 100 recipes that that are meant for
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: the home cook. You can cook these absolutely delightful, wonderful
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: dishes that you can get at the kitchen as well,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: but are well within the realm of a home cook.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: Some that my 11-year-old daughter could cook and some that
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: would require a little bit more skill, but always with
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: the intention of cooking for your community at home.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: Right. And I love that because, you know, when we've
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: gotten my daughter, who is 11 also, and I have
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: gotten those boxes from HelloFresh, she thinks it's really fun
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: to cook. And it's something that she can do with
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: me besides, you know, because otherwise she's in a room
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: on TikTok or something. So to me, that's like, but
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: it's definitely what you think.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: So what you're saying is, is true though, because that is,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: you know, whether it's 30 minutes from HelloFresh or something
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: that could take hours with you, but like, especially when
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: you put those pictures in there, that's so important because
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: you're like, this is what it could look like. And
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's, that's really important because, you know, when
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I grew up, I was looking at like the Julia
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Child's book or whatever, and it was a little boring
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: and all pages and pages of ingredients. And you were
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: just like, forget it. That's never going to happen.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 3: But I have a pet peeve with cookbooks. They don't
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: give me a picture of the dish. I'm a chef.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: I'm a trained chef. I know what I'm doing. I
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: find so much information that my eyes get from the picture.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: They tell me how... I also can tell without even...
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: I personally have a lot of experience. I can tell
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: from a picture mostly how that dish was made. But
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: a regular home cook, if they have a picture, they
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: get excited. They go, oh, I want that. And I
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: made a point of every single dish in that every
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: single recipe, there is a photo of that dish. Some
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: of the photos are group photos where we have like
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: a group of people sharing food over a table, which
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: I love, which is really how people eat at the kitchen. Right.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: sharing food and you know grabbing across the table and
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: kind of breaking bread with each other but every single
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: day every single recipe has a photo and as the
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: cook you could say oh yeah i i think i want.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: That right so do you have a favorite.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: Uh sure i mean i i would say um the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: this is going to sound very simple but the uh
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: the bolognese bolognese sauce I'm so proud to say that
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: I think it's the best one in the world, and
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: I've tried all of them because I'm such a huge fan.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: I would say the tomato soup is the best one
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: in the world that I know of, and I have
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: tried all of them. So I think that my favorites
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: are really the simple food. Okay. And then we have
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: a more complicated dish in there, which is the slow-roast
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: pork chop, which is a double-cut pork chop with spaetzle,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: which is a German pasta dish. and roasted onions.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Wow, sounds delicious.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: It's so good.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: But all of these you could get in the restaurant
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: so you could see how it's supposed to taste, correct?
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. The kitchen does change the recipe. Our recipes
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: are seasonal, so depending on the season, you'll get it
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: or not. But bolognese will never go off the menu.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: The tomato soup will never go off the menu.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Got it, okay.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: There are some dishes that we might change around. But, yeah,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: so I think for the most part, you'll be able
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: to experience it in the restaurant and then go home
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: and cook it at home. And our goal is for
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: it to be a joyful community experience. Okay.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: Awesome. I love it.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: Before we're done here, just very quickly, I have a
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: few rapid-fire questions for you. Is that okay?
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: How many cowboy hats do you now own?
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: Great question. So I've been at it now for nine years.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: I have one hat per year. So I hang up
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: my hats at the end of each year and they
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: are really completely destroyed by the end of the year.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: But they're kind of crumpled up and each one has
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: a different hat band. So I have seven of them
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: hanging up in my house. I'm wearing my eighth one.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: And I believe this one will last through probably next
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: summer is my hope. And I'll get to hang up
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: the next one.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: Do you have an area in your house, like you
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: know how some men have a closet that's just dedicated
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: to their sneakers? Are you going to have a closet
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: just dedicated to your hats eventually?
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: I have a wall in my office dedicated to my hats. Okay.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: Perfect. What kind of a car do you drive?
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: I drive a Tesla. I drive a Model S. I
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: have loved that car since we brought it out in 2012.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: I will say I am excited to switch it to
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: a Cybertruck. So I'm getting my Cybertruck really soon, and
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: I've never been a truck person, and all of a
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: sudden I am. I'm very excited about it.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: And if someone wants to get the Cybertruck, what color
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: is the best one? We only give it in one color. Oh,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: is it black?
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: No, stainless steel. Oh, okay. Then it's up to you
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: to wrap it any way you want.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: Amazing. Okay. I didn't know that. If you were on
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: a deserted island, what would be the one food you
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: could bring with you?
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: Roast chicken all day long. Okay.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: Who is the most famous person in your phone?
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: In my phone. Well, my brother's a pretty well-known guy,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: but if I... Oh, right.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 6: I forgot.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: That answers that. Other than my brother's my mom, so
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: I really have to go down the family. Right, exactly.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a great answer. Okay. What is the last
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: show you binged?
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: Oh, great question. At Winning Time. It's a basketball show
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: about the rise of the LA Lakers, and it's a
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: total binge-worthy show.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Okay. If you have one day full of freedom, like
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: free of responsibilities, how would you spend it?
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: You know, that's a great question. I love cooking. So
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: I would cook for my family and I would love
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: every moment of it.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: Okay. Do you have plans to go up into space?
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: I think that I probably will at some point. It's...
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: Very exciting. I think my switchboard would be going for
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: a trip around the moon. Okay. Isn't that crazy to
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: even think we can say that out loud?
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, completely crazy. Is it crazy that your brother is
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: the one making that a reality?
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: It's crazy. It's surreal.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, surreal.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming you know how to pronounce Elon and Grimes'
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: children's names, but can you pronounce them for us? And
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: do you have a nickname for them?
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: Um, I, uh, I do, I do, uh, I will
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: say that it's all nicknames. And so for me, it's, uh, uh,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: I will leave the names out of it because I'd
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: rather keep our family names out of it. But, uh,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: but yeah. Okay. Okay.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: So they are pronounceable within the family.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: Okay. Um, who was your first childhood crush?
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, cool. Um, Yeah, I, there was a wonderful, I mean,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: I was quite young, actually. I was probably eight or
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: nine years old. And it was another girl named Kim.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: And we were in school together. And it was obviously
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: the most platonic thing you can imagine at nine years old.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: But it was actually something I'll never forget. It was very,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: very beautiful.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: Childhood crushes are the best. Okay, last question. What is
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: on your bucket list that you haven't done that you
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: really would like to do? Besides the things you're talking
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: about going into space, stuff like that.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: You know, actually, I'm one of those humans that I
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: find something on my bucket list and I check it off.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: So I just actually wanted to learn how to be
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: a skydiver. So I got my A license this past
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: year and got the courage to jump out of an
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: airplane 28 times, over 25 times to get a license.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: So I'm still working on my next bucket list, but
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: just finished the last one.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: Okay. Tell us where we can find the kitchen cookbook
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: and when it will be officially released.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so please go to your local bookstore and order it.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: You can order it ahead there. It comes out in March.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: It'll come out in time for you to get some
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: for your mom for Mother's Day. It's also something you
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: can get now for a gift for Christmas. It'll come
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: out in March, but you can get the gift ahead
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: of time. And, of course, it's available on Amazon, Barnes
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: & Noble, and wherever books are sold.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: And if you guys want to sample any of the
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: dishes like we've been talking about, please check out one
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: of the restaurants, the kitchen, in the places that we discussed.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Kimball. I really appreciate you being
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: on the show.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. My pleasure.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Rachel Yucatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: and give us a five-star rating and review. You can
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel. Do you have ideas for the show.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: Or want to reach out?
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: Email us at infomisunderstoodpodcast at gmail.com. That's spelled M-I-S-S understood.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and I'll see you next time.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: Misunderstood. Misunderstood.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: for it?
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: Where?
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: Dunaidial.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: Do you mean.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: Lift?
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: Are you going past Kimmage?
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 6: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.