Latest / The Mark Driscoll Show / Internet WITCHES: the Dangers of Evil Influencers | The Mark Driscoll Show | Ep 09

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Internet WITCHES: the Dangers of Evil Influencers | The Mark Driscoll Show | Ep 09 · The Mark Driscoll Show

0:01
Well howdy and welcome back to the Mark Driscoll Show.
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Today we're diving into the spiritual chaos shaping our
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world. First, Pastor Mark has a
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prophetic mind melting message on witchcraft and sorcery and
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what Christians can do to stand in truth.
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Then paganism is suddenly on the rise and you won't believe who
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the biggest new converts are. Kirk Cameron wades into the
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debate on hell and ignites major theological questions, and later
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a Methodist pastor steps up in the pulpit and announces he's
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done pretending about being a Christian.
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Finally, Zac Brown Band turns in the Vegas spear into a digital
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version of hell itself. All right, let's get into it.
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All right, so Landon I, let's do a.
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Little Bible weird nerd rabbit trail mind melt.
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I'm going to throw out an idea. 30 years in the pulpit, never
1:11
heard before, never shared before.
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I'm excited, never knew before. It may be a good idea, maybe
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insightful revolutionary may be a horrible idea.
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I'm sure the Internet will tell us one.
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Way, this is what I'm asking. I'm asking the Internet for
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feedback. And so I like to teach through
1:28
books of the Bible and this year I did Hebrews, was in Hebrews
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most of the year. Next year I'm in Exodus and so
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I'm working through Exodus and I hit this little word in Exodus.
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Sorceress, Sorceress. Weird little word.
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Or whether it's kind of a new word for me.
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I knew there was sorcerers in the Bible and sorcery in the
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Bible, but sorceress, this is a chick.
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Witch a chick. Witch, this is a chick.
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Witch and so and so I started, you know, doing my beautiful
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mind rabbit trail, you know, you know, Rain Man meets Bible
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situation. And I find out that sorceress
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appears a few times in the Old Testament like Isaiah and
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Exodus. So hang in there because I think
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this applies to the Internet and and maybe the comments section
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for a few chick witches on the Internet.
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So I start digging into it. So in the Old Testament, God has
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prophets that he supernaturally anoints with the power of the
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Holy Spirit and they proclaim truth and repentance.
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These are your big dogs. This is Isaiah, Jeremiah,
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Daniel, Elijah, Moses, your prophets.
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They they work between both the political and the religious
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realms. So like Moses is preaching
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against the nation of Egypt, Daniel is preaching against the
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nation of Babylon and Medo, Persian empires and others got a
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long reign. You've got Elijah is preaching
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against Israel and the reign of J Ahab and Jezebel.
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So they're not just in the church preaching to the church
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and the religious folk. They're also in the public
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sphere and they're dealing with cultural political issues,
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issues of sexuality and gender and politics and policy and
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sometimes political leaders and head on collisions with
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political leaders. And so they're, they're beyond
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just the kind of the local congregational sort of
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messaging. So the counterbalance of them,
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because what God creates Satan counterfeits is a sorceress.
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It's a female anointed not by the Holy Spirit, but by an
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unholy demonic spirit, a a deconstructionist critical
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attack on the prophet. And it's a, it's a woman raised
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up. That's why it's called a
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sorceress. And her primary job is to
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criticize, to attack, to deconstruct, to deplatform, to
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take the followership of the prophet.
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That's her primary job. And so it's demonic, it's
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spiritual warfare, it's steal, kill.
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Destroy. That's her primary job.
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And so the sorceress. Is very, very evil and works
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according to basically dark magic and witchcraft.
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But the sorceress, the reason in the Old Testament that she's so
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powerful, she's among God's people and claims to be one of
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them. So you're not looking at someone
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from the Canaanites or the Amorites or some other, you
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know, clearly unbelieving separate group of people.
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This is somebody who come, this is a woman who comes up from
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within God's people and says, hey, I'm on your team.
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I worship your God. I'm just here to ask questions.
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I'm just here to hold people accountable.
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I'm just here to, you know, make sure that everybody answers to
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me. And you know, I'm just here to
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represent our God and his best interest.
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So like a counterfeit prophet. A counterfeit prophet and a
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prophetess. And So what happens then is the
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the sorceress is the highest ranking spiritual authority, and
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then what gathers under her are supporters.
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Today we would call them followers.
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And the supporters, these followers, when they convene in
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the Bible, are called a coven because it's witchcraft, it's
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sorcery, it's divination. This is why it's so powerful.
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Those who then join the coven, they are loyal not to God, but
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to the sorceress. They defend her at all costs.
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This is like Hornets or a bee's nest.
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There is a queen bee and you know all the other bees are
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Hornets in the nest. They are fiercely loyal to the
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queen bee. And if there seems to be anyone
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or anything approaching, they will, they will just attack.
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They're going to attack at all costs.
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And it's not about what is true and right and good.
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It's not even about the will of God.
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It's about defending the queen bee.
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And and so, you know, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, he was an old
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Baptist preacher. He talked about his critics were
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like bees. He said the beast thing isn't a
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problem, but a swarm is. And So what happens is you've
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got the queen bee, the sorceress.
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You've got her. Loyal followers, and this can
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include men, but because it's a sorceress, usually the majority
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of the supporters, the followers, the, you know, those
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who are endorsed her, they're female and they go attack and as
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soon as they attack if anybody should speak against her or
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them. It's.
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Oh, you're men attacking women or a man attacking a woman.
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This is abusive. Then immediately the cry is this
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is chauvinistic. This is unfair.
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And so they're they're using the male, female gender roles to
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allow the sorceress to get away with evil and murder.
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So here's my here's my wild thesis.
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Just wild thesis. Is it possible that some who are
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cultural influencers actually have the demonic power of an Old
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Testament sorceress? And covens today, because of
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technology, don't need to meet in the woods.
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They can meet on the web. They can gather digitally and
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then they can scatter digitally, which allows them to be larger,
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more effective, more dangerous. And my thesis, this is just just
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asking questions. We're not talking about anyone.
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We're just looking at a potential hypothetical category
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based upon my study of the Old Testament book of Exodus.
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And and that is if you lay this sort of category of the Old
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Testament sorceress over certain influencers platforms, this
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would include certain discernment, discernment
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bloggers, certain people that you know, sort of make it their
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life mission to. Attack to criticize to.
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Hold accountable, even though they have no, they have no basis
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for that. They, they, they don't have any
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flock, they're not spiritual leader.
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They don't have any theological credentialing.
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They, you know, they're not part of any group that's laid hands
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on them and said, you're, you're qualified to do this.
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They, they just have sorted somehow.
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They have this authority, but it doesn't come from God or any of
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his people. It comes from somewhere else.
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And so if you lay that over some of what is happening digitally,
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I know later in the show we're going to get into the rise of
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paganism. I think that if you take the
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ancient categories of sorcery, witchcraft, covens and you
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overlay it with digital platforms and technology, it
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could potentially give a category to understand some
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people and platforms. It's a thesis I am sharing free
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of charge. Nude Hazel demons.
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And now welcoming the Internet to pontificate on my hypothesis.
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I love it. I love it.
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I have a couple questions for you on.
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OK, so very interesting. I was doing some research that
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you're referencing in Exodus 22, A sorceress you shall not let
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live. So it's a capital punishment in
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the Bible for being a sorceress. It's expressly feminine.
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Nowhere there is the the masculine form is in the Bible,
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but. Sorcerer.
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Nowhere is that a capital punishment.
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Interesting the. Women were the most dangerous.
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Well, that's that. That's what I'm I'm trying to
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get at. In the the 1400s there was a
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witch hunting manual that was made.
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You got all this on AI? Why I don't go on the?
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Internet and IT sites Exodus 22 and argues that women are more
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prone to witchcraft because they're weaker in their faith,
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more carnal, gullible and vengeful and.
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AI said that by the way, not me. Just not just for a record.
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This is AI, Yeah. And 80% of the 100,000 people
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executed in for witchcraft in Europe between the 1400s and the
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1800s were women. So I'm not endorsing any of
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that, but I'm bringing it up as why are women more susceptible
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to witchcraft? And what?
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Why did the Bible explicitly call out the sorceress?
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So part of it is in the, in the Old Testament, the sorceress
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couldn't be put to death for criticizing, attacking things
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only for people, particularly male prophets.
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And so she would be the Antichrist, you know, the, the
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prophets working for Christ. She is Antichrist.
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We are not an Old Testament theocracy of Israel.
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You know, we're a nation that is not a theocratic rule under Old
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Testament law. And so, so these laws do not
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directly apply to the nation that we are a part of.
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Because I'm not advocating any of this whatsoever.
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What I am advocating is discernment.
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And that is if there was one particular consistent problem
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within the nation of Israel, and that was the sorceress.
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And it was noted in books like Exodus and Isaiah to be such a
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perennial problem that God said, I need to put a spotlight on
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this and I need to name this because there aren't a lot of
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these women. But when they show up, they
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create a lot of problems. And they're really spiritually
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confusing, powerful, divisive, dangerous and problematic that
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at the very least we should be discerning.
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And we should have that category because the Bible says don't
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believe every spirit, but test the spirits.
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And, and the Bible is very clear that not every spirit is of the
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Holy Spirit. There is, there are demonic
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counterfeits at work in the world.
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And so I'm not advocating, you know, any harm or any danger.
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What I am advocating is discernment.
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So is it possible that the spirits that were the very
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specific spirits that were being addressed in Exodus are alive
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today and operating in cultural influencers and people?
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Because spirits don't die. Yeah, so this is my whole thesis
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in the book New Days Old Demons. When you see the same things
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happening in different nations and generations, then the
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question is what is the causation?
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And if the people in the places are different, then the cause is
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the powers and principalities. And so demons don't die, so they
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will manifest with one person or in one place, and then reappear
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and manifest with another person in another place.
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And you will see patterns and tendencies.
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And so I'll give you some examples.
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So it was prophesied in Isaiah that in the days of Daniel that
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the nation of Babylon would take he and his friends as captives
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and they would castrate them. And so part of the spirit of
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Babylon is taking healthy young males and having the government
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castrate them. We're seeing that in our own
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day. It's it's the same spirit.
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You see as well in the days of Elijah, he was up against
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Jezebel. Jesus says couple thousand years
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later in Revelation, you tolerate that woman, Jezebel.
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Who calls herself a prophetess? She teaches false teaching and
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she seduces people into sexual immorality.
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Well, is there anywhere in Christianity or the church right
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now that people claim to speak for God?
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They're teaching things that are false and encouraging sexual
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immorality and perversion. Yes, that's the Jezebel spirit.
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So my thesis is that when you see something happening today
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that was happening in the days of the Bible, what you're
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looking at is new days, old demons, same activity.
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And so when it comes to the concept of the sorceress, my
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question is, are we seeing new days, old demons, same
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activities? So you believe Christian should
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have a category for which or sorceress in everyday?
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Absolutely. And it and in the Old Testament,
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this isn't a lot of people, but these are very powerful, well
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known, high profile people that they're undermining the work of
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prophets, particularly to those who are men, those who are
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challenging rightful authority with the truth of God's word.
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They're calling people to salvation and repentance and
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they're helping to establish a goodness and justice out of
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loyalty to God. So when when a man is doing
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something that is for God and a very powerful woman rises up to
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undermine, to undercut him and claims to be a believer and has
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success and followers that look like a coven, the question is,
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are we seeing the emergence? Of a sorceress spirit.
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Very interesting. And it feels like we Christians
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in Christianity, we've been losing for so long, we were just
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happy to have any influencers on our team that claim they're a
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Christian. And so you're saying Christian
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should be using a lot more discernment on cultural
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influencers that claim to be a Christian 'cause they could be a
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sorceress? Yeah, or, and or a counterfeit
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Christian. And so, you know, when
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Christianity is minority and marginal, you're less likely to
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have counterfeit Christians 'cause there's not a benefit.
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So like right now, let's say you're in North Korea.
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You're probably not going to, you know, you're probably not
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going to hang a cross on your house unless you really love.
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Jesus, 'cause they're going to kill you, Yeah.
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Once Christianity becomes kind of vogue and popular and trendy.
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Just like, just like. Sports have bandwagon fans.
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So do religions. All of a sudden everybody's
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wearing a cross. And yeah, you know, I believe in
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God, looks like the Bible says. And James, even the demons
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believe in God and they shudder. And so you even had on Jesus
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team of 12. You had Judas, who was a
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counterfeit Christian. He's pretending.
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Well, if Jesus had one guy, we're.
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Going to have some guys and we're going to have some gals.
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What are the very practical things a Christian should be
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looking for right now? Just kind of end this segment.
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If you're, if you're wanting to false him, this could be a
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pastor, this could be a teacher, this could be an influencer,
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this could be a platform leader. Just a couple of things like #1
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you know, what is their beliefs? I mean, are they clear?
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They said I believe in God. Like, OK, but what do they
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believe? Like do they believe the Bible
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is God's word? Did they believe that Jesus is
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fully God? Fully man died on the cross?
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You know, for. Our sins after living without
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sin rose from the dead and our place for our sins is the way
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the truth and life. Like do they give you enough
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clarity about their belief system?
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They're like, no, actually, they actually believe Christian
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things. In addition, did they behave in
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Christian ways? Meaning are they faithful to
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their spouse? I always say your family's your
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resume. Like what's their if they're
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married, what's their marriage like?
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Like if they have kids, like are they decent to their kids?
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Are they raising their and are they in a church?
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I have a grave concern about like this whole generation of
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like, I'm just an influencer online and I'm not in community
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and I'm not under authority and I just sort of pontificate
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publicly and I'm dispersing ideas and I have no real concept
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of what they're going to do to people's lives.
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Like I'm a pastor 30 plus years in the pulpit.
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I do weddings, I do funerals, I do counseling.
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I know that when you teach things, it has implications for
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people's marriages, their mental health, their children,
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generations of their family. And so I'm responsible for this
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flock, of which I'm a spiritual father.
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And so when I teach, I, I see it's like feeding kids.
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You're like, well, if you feed them, they get sick because
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that's poison. And and if you're an influencer
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online, you're like, I just feed people, but I don't see whether
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it's food or poison because I don't live in relationship with
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them to see what my food does to them.
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And so, you know, are they in a community?
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Are they in a church? Are they under, you know,
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authority? Are they, you know, are they in
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relationship with people? If they're just home all day
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pontificating and they're not clear about their belief system,
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you don't know anything about their life or family and they're
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not in relationship. They may be a Christian, but you
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don't have any evidence that they're actually living for
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Christ. Yeah, yeah.
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And that's where Jesus is. Many are going to come to me in
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the last day and say, Lord, Lord, and he's like, depart from
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me. I never knew you.
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That should be concerning for all of us.
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And so it's not just enough to say I believe in God or I'm a
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Christian. If you're going to.
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Follow someone if you're going to defend someone if you're
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going to learn from someone, it says in Luke 640.
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I think it is when fully trained disciples become like their
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teacher. So it's like.
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Well, do you actually know them? And would you want to be like
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them? Like do you do you want to be a
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person like them? Do you want to have a marriage
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like them? Do you want to have kids like
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them? You know, and often times with
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those who are providing sort of information as influencers, I'll
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just say this. Oftentimes what they're saying
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is not what they believe because they've got something in their
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ear where their producer is telling them what to say based
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upon keywords and algorithms and outcomes.
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And at that point you're like, I'm not even sure if they're
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telling me what they believe because they're just echoing
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what they're being told. In addition, you know, they're
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they're living their life in such a way that I've gotten
20:37
behind the curtain and I've met some people who are wonderful
20:42
people. Charlie Kirk, wonderful human
20:47
being, great man. He's talking to people about
20:50
Jesus. He's reading his Bible.
20:52
He loves his family off the platform, same human being, high
20:56
integrity, great character. I miss him.
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I respect him. I've met other people their
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whole life is a reality television show and they're an
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actor or an actress playing a script.
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That is not who they are at all. Like they're waving the family
21:13
values flag while they're committing adultery.
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Like, it's wild. And so, you know, you, you,
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you've got to have a little bit of discernment.
21:21
Yep, 100%. Well, I think we'll leave it
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right there for that segment. Thank you for that mind melting
21:25
insight, Pastor Mark. And it's not relevant to this
21:27
time at all, but. I notice nothing to do with the
21:29
present, but if in the future it has any potential relevance,
21:34
please feel test my ideas absolutely and let us know in
21:37
the comments what you think. It's great.
21:39
Thank you, Pastor Mark. Moving on to our next segment.
21:42
Well, Speaking of witches in the UK, something very bizarre is
21:46
happening. People are not leaving
21:47
Christianity just to be an atheist.
21:50
They are leaving Christianity to be a Pagan.
21:52
A full revival of ancient gods, occult rituals and nature
21:56
worship overtaking Islam, Buddhism and other alternatives
22:00
is happening there. So this is really confusing.
22:03
People aren't just away from their faith, they're walking to
22:06
something very demonic and you send this over.
22:10
So why? So Romans 1 anticipates,
22:14
predicts this. It says you either worship the
22:17
crater or the created and and this is it.
22:21
So Christianity teaches there is the creator and everything else
22:25
is the created. And if you worship the created,
22:29
then you enjoy, excuse me, if you if you worship the crater,
22:33
then you enjoy and steward the crater.
22:36
And if you don't believe in the creator, then you worship the
22:40
created. This is where you get pantheism.
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Pantheism. This is where you get the movie
22:46
Avatar. This is where you get animal
22:49
rights activism. This is where you get radical
22:52
environmental rights activism. This is where you get
22:56
witchcraft, This is where you get hardcore paganism, and this
23:00
is where you get sort of the resurrecting of ancient dead
23:04
religions, worshipping of Norse gods and all kinds of, you know,
23:08
strange primitive religions. And so digital technology, it
23:13
allows sort of the bringing back of dead Pagan religions that
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really are worshipping creation. It's worshipping created things,
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it's worshipping the earth, it's worshipping the environment,
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it's worshipping our ancestors. Whatever is created can be
23:29
worshipped. And then technology allows
23:31
people to gather online and to form communities.
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Whereas in the past, if you wanted to worship, you know, an
23:38
ancient Norse God or you wanted to worship your ancestors, or
23:42
you wanted to worship creation or you wanted to worship
23:45
environment or whatever the case is, you would need to, you would
23:50
need to get a bunch of people together.
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And that was hard to find a number of people that were like
23:55
minded and would want to gather in some group.
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But now you can just sort of gather enough people globally
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and digitally that you can form groups.
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And so technology is allowing the resurgence of ancient
24:08
paganism and ancient Pagan religions and practices.
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And so I think you're just going to see this continue to grow
24:15
because there's something in us that was made to worship and we
24:20
were made to worship. And so if we don't worship the
24:22
creator, we worship created. And, and, and I would go so far
24:26
as to say, you know, porn addiction is the worship of
24:30
created and the human body. I would say sex addiction is the
24:34
worship of created. I would say, you know, drug and
24:38
alcohol addiction is paganism. It's the worship of created.
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I would say the constant lust for, you know, beauty that some
24:48
people have and their entire life is just addicted to a
24:52
parent's is the worship of created.
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I would say some people the the worship of their child and just
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the absolute sort of unhealthy obsession with the performance
25:05
and the public presentation of their child.
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This can even be the overbearing Instagram mom that is a form of
25:13
paganism where it is worshipping the child that they created.
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I mean this could even include ideologies and philosophies, man
25:21
made thought systems like Marxism or social Marxism and
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social constructs. Those are created man made
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systems. Anything that is created by God
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or created by us is something that we can worship, we can give
25:37
our whole life to, we can be devoted to like a God, we can
25:43
make sacrifices for and, and then we could like evangelists,
25:47
we could start to recruit other people to join us to be devoted
25:51
to it and our cause. And if you start to think in
25:54
those terms, and. Look at our world.
25:56
I mean, this explains obsession with sports teams.
26:00
This explains addictions and artists.
26:03
This explains why Swifty's will travel the world with a devotion
26:08
to a young woman that is cult like.
26:10
It's worshipping someone who was created and the art that she
26:14
creates. And, and if you, if you lay this
26:17
overlay of worship of created things, rather than crater,
26:21
suddenly a lot of what is in our world, it starts to take on a
26:25
new understanding. It's it's religious in nature.
26:29
Yeah, the Swifty 1 is interesting.
26:30
There's a lot of conspiracy theories around her songs and
26:33
the the lyrics and even murders that could have been committed
26:37
by her and people that have disappeared.
26:39
And there is that that same kind of similar sorceress vibe from
26:44
from Taylor Swift. And I liked her earlier music,
26:47
and it's gotten pretty weird in recent years.
26:50
Well, and it's. But this is where people want to
26:52
be part of something, and they want to be.
26:56
Under something that is bigger than them and they want to make
27:00
sacrifices for someone or something and they want to give
27:04
themselves to someone or something that is bigger than
27:07
themselves. All of that is worship.
27:09
And if you don't worship God, you'll worship someone or
27:12
something and and that is the worship of created rather than
27:17
creator. And if you worship Creator, you
27:20
can love your spouse without worshiping them.
27:23
You can love your kid without worshiping them.
27:26
You can have a sexual life with your spouse without becoming a
27:29
sex addict and worshiping sex. You can have a sip of whiskey
27:33
without becoming an alcoholic and worshiping alcohol.
27:36
You can make money without becoming someone who worships
27:40
your income or your job and becoming a workaholic, I mean,
27:44
so the worship of God allows us to enjoy created things because,
27:49
you know, a good thing becomes a bad thing when it is in God's
27:53
place. Yeah, 100%.
27:56
And So what you're seeing in Europe, you're seeing people
27:58
that are like, I'm going to worship.
28:00
They don't know who creator is, so they're worshiping creation.
28:02
They're just good old fashioned pagans.
28:04
Any idea why Europe? Like why?
28:06
Why is this on the rise there right now?
28:08
Well, because. Christianity there is
28:10
particularly weak and the Church of England has gone completely
28:13
woken apostate. And so the the Church of England
28:16
historically is kind of been the spiritual religious center of
28:19
the Christian Church and it it is woken apostate, it is
28:24
embraced transgenderism and homosexuality and same sex
28:28
marriage. So it is abandoned the core
28:30
principles of biblical authority and as a result the Church of
28:34
England. What's Pagan?
28:38
It's Pagan because again back to Romans one they worshipped and
28:42
served created things rather than the creator God who's
28:45
forever praised Amen. The next section it says as a
28:49
result, God them, God then gave them over to unnatural desires.
28:54
Men were inflamed with sexual passion for men.
28:57
Women were inflamed with sexual passion for women.
29:00
It's the only expressly forbidden text in the Bible for
29:04
lesbianism. And it says once you worship
29:08
created rather than Cray Tor, you're going to be pro gay and
29:12
pro trans and pro lesbian. And so ultimately the beginning
29:16
toward paganism in Europe. It started with the Church of
29:20
England. Yeah.
29:22
So when the Christians are pagans, everybody goes Pagan.
29:26
Interesting. Yeah, it's it's almost like the
29:28
jump from Christianity to paganism is easier because at
29:32
least paganism has like clear backbone where the Christian
29:37
Church is just like the syncretism.
29:38
It's mixing God and these other things.
29:40
That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
29:43
And so you really, you know, there's some independence, some
29:46
Pentecostals, some charismatic churches that are faithful.
29:49
But when you see the Church of England become fully Pagan and
29:55
synchrotizing is right. They're taking what it would
29:57
have been traditional Christian buildings or symbols or or
30:01
principles and then commingling them with paganism, Pagan
30:04
sexuality, ideology, praying with other religions, bringing
30:09
in radical environmental rights, activism, Earth Day, things of
30:12
that nature. What you've got, you've got
30:15
syncretism, you've got compromise.
30:17
And the result is if, if the church quote UN quote is Pagan,
30:22
well, then there is nothing to stop the rest of the culture
30:26
from rejecting the Christian part of the syncretism and just
30:31
maintaining the the Pagan part of the syncretism.
30:34
And so, you know, the Christians are like, we're going to
30:36
syncretize with paganism. And the pagans are like, well,
30:39
we don't need the Christian part of the syncretism.
30:42
So the divorce happens and they're like, well, we'll just
30:44
get rid of the pseudo Christian and just keep the Pagan.
30:47
Yeah, it's clear. It's cleaner.
30:49
Yeah, interesting, very interesting.
30:51
And where they go, the rest of the world and probably follow as
30:56
we. Yeah, as we progress, progress.
30:59
So next segment. Pastor Mark Kirk Cameron made
31:03
headlines after appearing to endorse annihilationism, belief
31:07
that the unsaved are destroyed rather than experiencing
31:10
internal punishment. So we'd love to roll the clip
31:13
and show you what was said. The Internet is in uproar over
31:16
this one. I used to hold the position of
31:18
conscious eternal torment because that's just what I was
31:20
taught by people that I love and trust.
31:23
I've learned that there are other positions, and a very
31:27
robust argument can be made for conditionalism or
31:30
annihilationism as Edward Fudge posits here, and it it fits the
31:36
character of God in my understanding more than the the
31:41
conscious eternal torment position, because it brings in
31:46
the mercy of God together with the justice of God.
31:49
It doesn't leave judgment out, it is just.
31:52
But it also fits with the Old Testament picture of the fate of
31:57
the wicked which is to be destroyed.
31:59
It is to die and it is to perish, not live forever in an
32:03
eternal BBQ. And the classic verses that used
32:07
to get me into eternal torment, you know, the punishment,
32:10
everlasting punishment, everlasting destruction, fits
32:14
beautifully with a destruction, punishment, judgement that is
32:18
irreversible and lasts forever. That is the eternalness of that
32:22
punishment and that destruction. So that's where I am today.
32:26
Interesting. So I don't, I don't know Kirk.
32:29
I've not met him. I know he's done a lot of good
32:32
for Christ in the Kingdom and shared the gospel and defended,
32:36
you know, children not being brainwashed into transgenderism.
32:41
And so I'm not going to attack the man.
32:44
I love him as a brother in Christ and I appreciate the fact
32:48
that he's constantly studying, learning and growing and wanting
32:53
to, you know, mature and be humble.
32:56
So I want to encourage all of that.
32:58
On this issue, there's three basic positions, say on the far
33:02
left, there's universalism. So if you're new to this and you
33:06
want to study, universalism is a heresy.
33:09
It's a false teaching. And that is everybody goes to
33:12
heaven, Nobody goes to hell, Everybody goes to heaven.
33:15
That's that's a that's a heresy. You know, Jesus says not
33:20
everybody who even says to me, Lord, Lord will enter into the
33:22
Kingdom of heaven. Jesus says I'm the way, the
33:24
truth and the life. No one comes to the father but
33:27
by me. Jesus says I'm the narrow door.
33:29
You know, few find it. Fewer still pass through it.
33:31
So you know, universalism is a heresy.
33:36
Then what he's talking about is annihilation ISM and that is
33:41
that people who don't know Jesus as Lord and Savior, they die and
33:45
maybe they suffer for a while, but at some point they cease to
33:49
exist. They suffer for a period and
33:52
then they they no longer exist. The position that he used to
33:58
hold to, apparently that I still hold to is conscious eternal
34:01
torment. And that is that those who
34:04
reject do not know the Lord Jesus Christ as God and Savior.
34:09
They die and they go to hell and they're conscious, they're
34:15
aware, awake, alert, eternal, forever and ever torment.
34:20
There's a degree of punishment for them based upon the degree
34:23
of sin in their life. And so this would be the
34:27
majority position and this would be historically the primary
34:31
position of the Church. Whereas universalism is false
34:36
teaching and heresy. Annihilationism is a minority
34:40
position, but it is not a heretical position.
34:45
It is not a position I would encourage.
34:47
It is not a position I would hold, but it does not make you a
34:50
heretic. Why do you think Christians want
34:54
to humanize? God.
34:58
So when you, when he talks about the character of God, you've got
35:00
to be very, very, very, very, very, very, very careful,
35:04
because when you talk about the character of God, you're talking
35:07
about God's attributes. And every theological system
35:13
wants to take one or more of God's attributes and sort of
35:17
dial up the volume on those and dial down the volume on others.
35:20
So the Universalist would be like, how could a loving,
35:23
gracious, merciful God send anybody to hell?
35:26
And then the. Conscious eternal Torah would be
35:28
like, how could a, how could a just holy righteous God not So
35:32
they're both dialing the volume knob on different attributes of
35:36
God. The number one attribute of God
35:38
in the Bible mentioned more than any other is holiness.
35:43
And so I'll give you a few verses that to me seem to make
35:46
the argument. Matthew 2541 talks about the
35:50
eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
35:54
Eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
35:58
Not only are people going to hell, so is the devil and his
36:01
demons. Do we really think that Satan
36:04
and demons are going to be annihilated?
36:08
No. See so if if.
36:10
People are going to hell, and Satan and demons are going to
36:12
hell. Do we really believe that the
36:15
beings going to hell are going to at some point, be
36:18
annihilated? Answer no.
36:20
So if people are going to hell and Satan and demons are going
36:22
to hell, they're all going to be there forever.
36:24
God's not going to annihilate sort of one category of citizen
36:29
in the eternal state. How about this one?
36:31
Revelation 1410 and 11. He will also drink the wine of
36:35
God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his
36:37
anger. He'll be tormented with fire and
36:39
sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence
36:43
of the Lamb. This is a haunting verse because
36:45
some will say that Satan rules in hell and that Jesus rules in
36:49
heaven. Here it says that evil doers and
36:53
Satan and demons will be tormented in the presence of the
36:55
Lamb. Jesus rules in heaven and Jesus
36:59
rules in hell because Jesus is Lord over all.
37:02
Yeah, I come from a Pentecostal background.
37:04
You're the first person I ever heard say that.
37:06
And it's like, well, yeah, why did?
37:08
Why would the Lord give Satan a place where he gets the rules?
37:11
Satan doesn't get any dominion. He is not the creator of any
37:16
part of creation and he is not Lord with dominion over any
37:19
aspect of creation. So you know, every knee shall
37:22
bow and every tongue confess both on the earth and under the
37:24
earth that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
37:27
And so when, when, when Jesus returns, he will reclaim all of
37:32
creation and Satan will not have any dominion.
37:36
And so the the, the rule of Jesus will include over hell.
37:41
And then it goes on to say, And the smoke of their torment goes
37:44
up forever and ever. They have no rest.
37:47
They are not forever and ever. John 336.
37:52
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life.
37:56
Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the
37:59
wrath of God remains on him. So we believe as Christians that
38:03
those who die in faith have eternal life.
38:09
Consequently, those who do not die in faith, but die apart from
38:13
faith, they have eternal death because a human being is an
38:18
eternal being. Whether or not you know Jesus,
38:22
you do have a soul. That soul is an eternal part of
38:27
you. Your body will die, but your
38:30
soul does not. Paul says to be absent from the
38:34
body is to be present with the Lord.
38:37
That means that even though you're your body may die, your
38:41
soul does not because your soul is the eternal part of you.
38:45
And this is where those who would say our soul goes to
38:50
heaven forever and ever, well then our soul, if it goes to
38:54
hell, would need to go there forever and ever because that is
38:58
the unending part of our being. I'll give you a couple more.
39:03
How about John 5, 25 through 29? Truly, truly, I say to you, an
39:09
hour is coming, and it's now here when the dead will hear the
39:13
voice of the Son of God and those who here will live.
39:16
An hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear His
39:19
voice and come out. Those who have done good to the
39:22
resurrection of life and those who have done evil to the
39:25
resurrection of judgment. It's Jesus.
39:28
So everybody's going to get out. Resurrection of life,
39:32
resurrection of judgment. We're talking about everybody
39:36
going somewhere forever. And Daniel 12/2 in the Old
39:40
Testament to me is maybe the simplest and clearest.
39:45
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake
39:48
some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame and
39:53
everlasting contempt. It's like everybody's going to
39:57
get up everlasting life, everlasting shame and contempt
40:01
to say. And everlasting doesn't mean
40:04
everlasting. And forever doesn't mean
40:07
forever. Well, now, Now we're doing
40:10
origami. Yeah, it just feels like kids
40:12
arguing over well, if I'm, if I do this wrong thing, my parents
40:16
aren't going to punish me like that.
40:18
My my parents character isn't that way.
40:20
And it's like, why are we softening hell?
40:24
We don't need to make the cell easier to go to hell.
40:27
Like it's confusing as a Bible teacher or somebody that really
40:31
cares about spreading the gospel, getting more people into
40:35
heaven. Why are we softening hell?
40:36
It it doesn't help our case for the gospel, it's apologizing for
40:39
the gospel. I totally agree about it.
40:42
So two things. One, there are degrees of reward
40:45
in heaven and there are degrees of punishment in hell.
40:48
So you know, the Bible talks about the Bible talks about
40:53
rewards without getting into the full doctrine of eternal
40:55
rewards. You know, the person who on
40:58
their deathbed after living a just a life of just rebellion in
41:03
hell and on their deathbed, they're like Jesus, forgive me,
41:06
like they're going to get into heaven now.
41:08
You know, like the person that served Christ their whole life
41:13
and suffered in the gulag and you know, had their family
41:17
martyred in front of them and you know, their whole life was
41:21
just a sacrifice for Christ. There's going to be a reward for
41:26
them, and the Bible doesn't specify what these rewards are,
41:32
but there will be rewards in the Kingdom of heaven for degrees of
41:35
faithfulness. That's where you know, the Bible
41:38
says don't store up your treasures on earth where moth
41:41
and rust destroy. Store up your treasures in
41:44
heaven, meaning you know you can't take it with you, but
41:47
through a life of faithful service to the Lord, you can
41:51
send it ahead. So not everybody in hell gets
41:54
the same punishment. So there may be somebody.
41:57
That was just a pretty decent Pagan neighbor.
42:00
It's going to be different for them than someone who is, you
42:03
know, a demonic cult leader that is intentionally abusing people
42:07
and leading them astray. And so yes, God's character does
42:11
factor into it. And there is degrees because God
42:14
is perfectly just. And so the degrees of punishment
42:17
will fit the the degrees of sin throughout the course of the
42:21
life. But per your point, I absolutely
42:24
agree with it. These are decisions that God
42:27
makes, not us. Let's say let's say I'm wrong
42:31
and hell ain't that bad. If I'm overselling it and I'm
42:38
like, hey, you guys need Jesus because you're going to hell and
42:41
it's going to be, it's going to be awful.
42:43
And I'm painting worst case scenario.
42:45
And people are like, OK, I'm accepting Jesus because I don't,
42:48
I don't want to get that. Well, OK, fine, then then, Then
42:55
maybe, maybe we're giving them a little incentive to receive
42:58
Jesus and not go to hell. I don't see any harm in that.
43:02
You know, this is like your doctor saying, hey, you know,
43:04
you got cancer and if you don't change your diet, you could die.
43:10
You're like, well, then I'm going to change my diet.
43:12
If the doctor's like, you know, you might die.
43:16
The nuance isn't helpful. The nuance isn't helpful.
43:18
Like just tell me you'd like stop eating the Cheetos or
43:21
you're going to die. And they'll be like, you know
43:23
what? I'm not doing Cheetos anymore.
43:25
Just just give me the worst case scenario.
43:27
And that is a good incentive for me to make the adjustment I need
43:30
to make. If you tell me that hell is like
43:33
worst case scenario, you're encouraging me to receive Jesus
43:37
and. Who loses in that?
43:39
Yeah, 100% yeah. It just feels like the first
43:42
step towards a slippery slope of apologizing for our Lord and
43:46
Savior, which I don't think we need to do.
43:49
It's not our place to do. Well, so our sin is so bad that
43:53
Jesus. So this is where it connects to
43:55
something called penal substitutionary atonement.
43:57
So on the flip side, our sin is atoned for by the
44:02
substitutionary death of Jesus Christ on the cross in our place
44:06
for our sins, and he endured the wrath of God.
44:10
So if our sin is so great that our eternal God had to endure
44:15
the wrath of God for our sin, then it must be very serious.
44:19
And then my question would be, does that not presuppose that
44:25
because of sin an eternal price needs to be paid?
44:29
Because if Jesus died on the cross, in my place, for my sin,
44:33
as my substitute, as my. Savior, which he did.
44:38
Then an eternal price was paid for my sin, because my eternal
44:42
God went to the cross, endured the wrath of the Father, and
44:46
died for my sin. So my eternal God paid an
44:50
eternal price for my sin. Now if you reject that eternal
44:55
price, doesn't it make sense that you would have to pay an
44:58
eternal price for your sin? And if there, if you we don't
45:03
need an eternal price for our sin, then does that not start to
45:08
open up the possibility of diminishing the necessity of
45:14
Christ dying on the cross in our place for our sins and weakening
45:19
penal substitutionary atonement? That's I'm not saying he's doing
45:22
that. I'm not saying he's doing that,
45:24
but this is where it goes. Yeah, that's what that's what I,
45:27
that's my, my question is when you when you start studying the
45:31
nuance and living in the nuance, it's it's very privileged and
45:35
it's dangerous. And, and Speaking of the danger
45:39
of it, we saw a New York Methodist pastor this week
45:43
standing before his congregation announcing he's transitioning,
45:46
declaring he's not becoming a woman, just he's done pretending
45:50
to be a man. So Speaking of like levels of
45:53
suffering in hell, this is a pastor.
45:55
I think we can guarantee we'll be there.
45:57
So let's let's take a look. So I get to announce with joy
46:02
that I'm transitioning. I'm affirming and saying to all
46:06
of you that I am transgender. And so.
46:11
And so the best way to put this is that I'm not becoming a
46:17
woman. I'm giving up pretending to be a
46:19
man. Thank God you have never chosen
46:23
me as your pastor based off of my appearance.
46:26
So what will change my voice? It might go a tad higher, the
46:30
pronouns she her, but I'm not going to be pronoun police.
46:36
What may change is that we might become known within the
46:42
community as an even safer space for people who have felt
46:47
marginalized. Are my parents OK with this?
46:50
Absolutely not. They texted me this morning and
46:53
they asked for me to tell you all that they do not support me
46:59
and that they have chosen their convictions and their beliefs
47:03
over supporting their child. He is one of the ugliest women
47:07
I've ever seen. I, you know, I I will never be a
47:11
woman, but I don't think I would fare much better.
47:14
You wouldn't. I would not fare much better.
47:15
No. Yeah.
47:18
So what the hell is going on with the United Methodist Church
47:20
Pastor Mark? The United Methodists are not
47:23
Christian. There may be there may be some
47:26
Christians in the United Methodist Church, but the United
47:29
Methodist Church as a denomination is no longer
47:32
Christian. Wow.
47:34
Yeah, we wanted to show you he's really, he's really had an
47:38
upgrade in his looks lately. Man, I threw up my mouth.
47:41
You can take that down. Guys, take it down, take that
47:44
down. So, so here's what we are
47:46
saying. There are there are
47:48
denominations that are no longer Christian.
47:52
And there's a difference between a world religion and apostasy.
47:59
A world religion never claims to be Christian.
48:02
Apostasy either starts as Christian or claims to be
48:06
Christian and then deviates from Christian convictions.
48:09
This is apostasy. Apostasy is reprehensible.
48:16
And this means that, like this pastor, this church, and if
48:21
tolerated, this denomination is apostate.
48:24
The denomination came out fully in support of him.
48:28
Complete apostasy. Any Christian that is in this
48:31
church or denomination needs to leave immediately.
48:34
You need to literally leave immediately because you can't be
48:39
loyal to something that is not loyal to Christ.
48:42
They are Antichrist and so the Bible is clear on this.
48:48
I'll give you a genesis, you know one before sin enters the
48:52
world and everything is perfect. Said God made us male, female,
48:58
binary, 2 genders assigned by God.
49:03
Jesus repeats this over and over and over and that Mark 10 I
49:06
brought it 6 through 9 From the beginning of creation, God made
49:09
them male and female equals. Genesis 1 Therefore a man shall
49:13
leave his father and mother hold fast to his wife. 2 shall become
49:16
one flesh. They're no longer 2, but one
49:18
flesh. For God has joined together.
49:19
Let not man separate. So Jesus says, here's the
49:22
building block for a civilization.
49:25
There is one God. He made men and women.
49:29
He made marriage for one man and one woman.
49:32
Sex is only for heterosexual marriage between one man and one
49:38
woman, and then they will have children brought into a
49:41
consummated covenant. That's the foundation.
49:44
Jesus says that's that's the building block for an entire
49:46
civilization. OK.
49:48
And so if you if you remove that or if you change that, then the
49:53
civilization crumbles, which is what we see in the history of
49:56
the world and we're seeing presently in our own nation.
50:00
And so if you are a Bible believing Christian, if you deny
50:04
any of these principles, you are your apostate, your Antichrist,
50:09
you are against God in his word. And so the Bible too, it does
50:17
teach that those of us who teach, we're taking on a much
50:21
stricter responsibility. James, Jesus half brother says
50:25
not many of you should seek to be teachers.
50:27
You're going to be judged more strictly and harshly.
50:31
Jesus says certain teachers, they're blind guys, meaning
50:34
you're following them. But these are blind guys.
50:36
They don't know where they're going.
50:38
And so if you're going to be a spiritual leader and teacher,
50:44
there is a much stricter level of judgement for you.
50:48
Meaning if you are a pastor or teacher of especially here,
50:54
you're in the pulpit, you're claiming to be God's word and
50:56
you're wearing, you know, a rainbow sash that is a mockery
51:01
of God. It's, I can explain that in a
51:04
moment. It's actually a demonic mockery
51:07
of God. That means that when you die and
51:10
stand before Jesus, you're going to not only go to hell, you're
51:14
going to get a stricter, harsher eternal judgment in hell.
51:20
Because not only did you go to hell, you took other people with
51:24
you. So, Pastor Mark, you believe
51:27
they'll be pastors in hell? There will be an entire section
51:34
of hell devoted to pastors who are receiving some of the
51:40
highest levels of torment because they are held to a
51:47
higher standard. And you either live for fear of
51:50
God or fear of man. And if you live for fear of man,
51:55
it'll be a horrible day when you stand before the living God.
52:01
100% agree. When does when does the sheep
52:04
become accountable? Because so these people, maybe
52:07
they were in a well meaning church for a while and then we
52:09
see this decline happening and complete apostasy happening in
52:12
the whole denomination. Where does it go?
52:14
I was following a false teacher and now I'm accountable for
52:18
following a false teacher. You are accountable.
52:21
You are accountable, if you are a Christian, to not be loyal to
52:27
your pastor, not be loyal to your church, not be loyal to
52:30
your denomination, but to be loyal to Jesus Christ.
52:34
And if they are not following Christ, you cannot be following
52:39
them because they may be your Good Shepherd, but he's the
52:43
chief shepherd, meaning your shepherd is supposed to be
52:47
following the chief shepherd. And if he's not following the
52:50
chief shepherd, they shouldn't be your shepherd.
52:54
Furthermore, when it comes to transgenderism, God made us male
52:59
and female. But because because angels are
53:03
not engendered, angels don't inhabit a physical body like we
53:06
do. And that would include demons
53:09
who are fallen angels. And so we never see in the Bible
53:12
where angels are involved with the sexuality of human beings,
53:16
but we do see demons are actively involved in the
53:19
sexuality of human beings. And so demons are not
53:24
engendered. Demons are transgender.
53:27
Demons exist on a gender spectrum.
53:30
Demons can appear male, female. And so transgenderism is
53:36
actually demonic. And it is the demonic realm
53:41
seeking to get people to live in the image and likeness of demons
53:48
rather than the image and likeness of God.
53:51
Because God made us in his image and likeness, male and female.
53:55
And demons want to remake us in their image and likeness as
53:59
transgender on a gender spectrum.
54:03
And so this is all wildly counterfeit and demonic, which
54:07
is why it's so powerful. And even the wearing of the
54:10
rainbow sash. So the rainbow goes all the way
54:13
back to the days of Noah when when people were eating and
54:18
drinking and carousing the Lord Jesus says, and then God flooded
54:22
the earth to judge all of the sin.
54:25
And after he flooded the earth for the Noahic covenant, the
54:28
Bible says in Genesis, the God put a a rainbow in the sky.
54:33
And it was his way of saying that he would never flood the
54:36
earth again. In the ancient world, the the
54:39
weapon of war was a bow. You'd go to war with a bow.
54:42
And when a warrior would come home from battle to signify that
54:46
it was peacetime, they would hang their bow on the wall.
54:50
Like today, say you're a soldier, you'd come home from
54:54
war. You'd hang your gun on the wall.
54:56
So you know, this is the the rainbow in the sky was God's way
54:59
of hanging his bow and saying, I'm not going to declare war on
55:03
you again. And so when someone takes that
55:07
symbol and uses it for sin and for evil, they're mocking God
55:13
saying, well, if you're not going to judge us, we're going
55:16
to sin against you and we're going to mock you and there's
55:19
nothing you're going to do about it.
55:22
And God will not be mocked. You will reap what you sow.
55:28
I mean, this is this is literally mocking God in the
55:32
pulpit doing what is demonic. And so I want to honor his
55:36
parents because his parents are like, you do not come with our
55:40
approval and blessing. You tell your congregation that
55:44
we have called you to repentance.
55:45
That is a hard thing for a parent to do.
55:47
You always love your child, but the gospel of Jesus Christ
55:53
commands and demands the repentance of sin.
55:56
And the demonic counterfeit of that is the tolerance of sin.
56:00
And so we, we have hit literally the bedrock of our day and that
56:05
is will we have tolerance of sin or repentance of sin.
56:09
And what you see, this person is preaching tolerance of sin.
56:14
His parents are preaching repentance of sin.
56:17
And so his parents are loyal to God and he is not.
56:21
It's wild. It is wild.
56:25
Yeah, the open mockery of God is there will be a special place in
56:29
hell, like you said. So it's a weird episode.
56:31
This is tis the season. Merry Christmas.
56:34
Halloween. Episode.
56:36
Well. Dark and we're going darker, so
56:38
next going darker. I know the next segment.
56:41
Grab, grab a drink, Pastor Mark. Another hell.
56:46
Zac Brown Band used the Las Vegas fear to create a hyper
56:50
realistic version of hell during their performance.
56:54
So take a look, Pastor Mark. That's disgusting.
57:34
So what I was given your I was going for a walk with the
57:38
grandkids and one of them was your son.
57:40
I'll call him Cowboy Little Guy. He's awesome.
57:43
And there was this, it was right around Halloween.
57:45
There was this big giant, like ghoulish thing, like scary.
57:50
I don't understand it. And your son looked at it and
57:54
he's like, yuck. Jesus hates that.
57:58
I taught my son right. That's all I'm hearing in my
58:00
head. That's all I'm hearing it.
58:02
Feels like somebody very demonic had a had a vision of hell and
58:07
creatively is creating that that.
58:09
That was the goosebumps. That's the word that I wrote
58:12
down. So a dream is when you see
58:13
something in your asleep, and a vision is when you see something
58:16
in when you're awake. And technology today allows
58:19
people that have visions to share those visions, which is a
58:23
wild time because usually a vision would be a private event.
58:27
But now because of technology and creativity, you could take a
58:30
vision and you can make it a public event.
58:32
And so, you know, if if something like this was used for
58:37
evangelism to say, let me give you an idea of what conscious
58:41
eternal torment could be and why you need Jesus Christ.
58:44
Like, I mean, that would be like a 90s, you know, trauma, haunted
58:48
house, you know, Uber Christian evangelistic attempt, you know,
58:53
but like, if this is just part of entertainment.
58:57
Yeah, 'cause what are they trying to communicate?
58:58
It's like they're the rulers of hell.
59:00
They're the band of hell. Like what?
59:01
What it? Why?
59:03
So there often times there is this this presentation like hell
59:08
is where all the boring people is.
59:09
Excuse me? Heaven is where all the boring
59:11
people go, and hell is where the party's at.
59:14
So it's glorifying hell. Yeah, it's where the party it's
59:17
it's hell is where all the action is, where all the fun is,
59:21
where all the good times are. And the truth is, and, and this
59:25
is part of even the myth that Satan rules hell and he doesn't,
59:31
you know, it says they'll be, they'll be Hell was made for the
59:35
devil and his angels. That's what Jesus says.
59:37
So they don't rule hell. They're tormented in hell by
59:40
Jesus, who rules over hell. And so, yeah, for me, I, I, I
59:44
would say, man, something like my wife Grace has really wanted
59:48
to go to the Vegasphere and she's wanted to experience it.
59:51
I'm not taking her to this. But for me, just on a conscience
59:55
issue, you know, as this is sin, we could debate that all day.
59:59
I would just say as a, as a Christian, be very wary of
1:00:02
environments you put yourself in.
1:00:05
And also for me, like, I can't watch horror films, any of that
1:00:09
stuff. I've had so much interaction
1:00:11
with possessed people, demonic activity.
1:00:16
Any of that stuff is so real to me, not in a a fearful way, but
1:00:21
just a a bothersome way that I just, my soul can't handle any
1:00:28
of that. There's enough of that that is
1:00:30
real that when it is just turned into entertainment and done in a
1:00:36
trivial way, it desensitizes people to the reality of evil
1:00:42
and the reality of hell, which I don't want anybody to be
1:00:46
desensitized to that. I want them to be aware of that
1:00:50
and I want them to be forewarned and, and to avoid that by
1:00:54
repenting of sin and trusting in Christ.
1:00:56
But what sometimes what we do in the realm, so sometimes,
1:00:59
sometimes what happens in the realm of entertainment is our
1:01:02
discernment guard goes down. Yeah, it's, it's it's very
1:01:07
interesting. And I, I just looked up on AI
1:01:09
trying to understand why, why this happened.
1:01:11
So Zac Brown, the leader of the band, he he is a professing
1:01:14
Christian and he he was trying to portray something from his
1:01:21
personal journey and story. Many people are just calling a
1:01:25
Satanic ritual to music like it. It was.
1:01:28
It was very odd knowing that Zac Brown's a Christian and maybe he
1:01:34
just kind of messed up and this thing's gotten away from him.
1:01:37
What advice would you give him? So the gospel of Jesus Christ
1:01:41
must be preached and it can't be shown.
1:01:45
And so the gospel of Jesus Christ, if you're going to show
1:01:50
hell, demons, conscious, eternal torment, whatever.
1:01:54
If you really are, if you really are a Christian, you are trying
1:01:57
to help people, then in some form or fashion you need to tell
1:02:01
them about Jesus. And so that's in the show,
1:02:05
stopping to present the gospel that is using the platform to
1:02:09
make sure that the hope of the victory of Jesus Christ is
1:02:14
presented and that people are given an opportunity to turn
1:02:18
from sin and trust in him. Now, there are creative ways you
1:02:22
can do that artistically and wouldn't, you know, would
1:02:25
encourage that doesn't need to be cheesy and doesn't need to be
1:02:28
in a way that is, you know, off putting for those who are
1:02:30
present for a concert. But if you, if you're thinking
1:02:34
I, I want to share my faith in some way, then make sure you
1:02:38
share all of it and give people an opportunity to join you in
1:02:41
that faith. Yeah, yeah.
1:02:42
I think that's a really good word.
1:02:44
Why do you feel like entertainment has gotten so
1:02:46
polarized where it does feel like gravity is towards Satan
1:02:51
and the dark? Like you can't watch Netflix,
1:02:54
you can't listen to country music without virtue signaling
1:02:59
and political stances. And it's like, OK, entertainment
1:03:03
is no longer entertainment. It is.
1:03:06
It is leading you somewhere. Or is that how entertainment
1:03:08
it's always been? That's how it is.
1:03:10
I think songs are sermons. I think shows are sermons.
1:03:12
I think movies are sermons. I think everything has a
1:03:15
storyline and narrative, A moral message.
1:03:18
And I think, I think everything is trying to communicate and
1:03:21
convert. And so you need to be
1:03:25
discerning. And there isn't such thing as
1:03:27
just consuming content. You need to be critically
1:03:30
analyzing content. So even like when our kids were
1:03:32
little, I didn't let them just watch things.
1:03:35
We'd watch together and I'd hit pause and be like, all right,
1:03:37
let's talk about this, you know, because everything has an
1:03:41
ideology, everything has a worldview, Everything has a, a
1:03:44
message within it. I mean, even, you know, even
1:03:47
when we'd watch shows with the kids when they were little, it's
1:03:49
like every show it seemed like dad was an idiot and the family
1:03:52
pet saved the day with the kid. It's like, well, there's a
1:03:55
message there. You, you your dad is not helpful
1:03:58
or trustworthy. There's a message there.
1:04:00
There's a worldview, There's an ideology there.
1:04:03
Like I've been was flipping through Netflix the other day
1:04:05
and you know, there's some new Western that's out and it's
1:04:08
about two matriarchs who are, you know, leading the
1:04:11
advancement of something in the wild, Wild West.
1:04:14
And I'm like that's nonsense. Like 2 chicks in a dress are
1:04:17
not, you know, out there winning, you know, gunfights
1:04:21
with bolt action Winchester's I mean.
1:04:23
Last was not real progressive. No, the Wild West was not real
1:04:26
progressive. I mean, it's just like this is
1:04:28
just virtue signaling and nonsense.
1:04:31
It's it's just dumb. But but it's it's being able to
1:04:34
help process that. Yeah, 100%, yeah.
1:04:37
I think you can be helpful to your kids, and so would you if
1:04:41
you were at the Zac Brown concert with your kids or with
1:04:44
your wife. Would you have stayed or would
1:04:46
you have walked out? With the kids, I definitely
1:04:47
would have walked out with my wife.
1:04:49
I wouldn't have to walked out. She would have ran and I would
1:04:52
have had to find her at the car. My my wife is well, you know, my
1:04:55
wife Grace, like she's she's hypersensitive to all these
1:04:58
things. And and so for us, like, I mean,
1:05:03
we're not legalistic on things. And you know, I don't want to be
1:05:06
one of those 90s. So 90s.
1:05:08
There was this Hells Bells documentary for trying to scare
1:05:13
Christians about heavy metal and they play all the songs
1:05:17
backwards and be like, eat your children, you know, Is that
1:05:20
backwards masking and all this weird?
1:05:22
Like it got really, really, really weird.
1:05:24
Like we don't want to be like that.
1:05:26
But it's like, man, I already lived in Seattle.
1:05:29
I see what hell looks like. I'm good.
1:05:30
I don't need to pay for it at the Sphere for sure, you know
1:05:35
for sure. Yeah.
1:05:36
Well, thank you, Pastor Mark. I think we'll leave it right
1:05:39
there. Thank you guys for joining us
1:05:41
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