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Transcript

No Crypto Taxes?🔥w/ Tax Pro Mark J. Kohler 💰 · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Let's dive into some tax strategies today for your crypto
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: holdings and what this might mean for both twenty twenty
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: four and twenty twenty five. I'll break it down for you.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: We've got a special guest. I think you'll like it.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: My name is Paul Barrel. Welcome back in the tech path.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: We're going to thank our sponsor. And of course that
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: is a digital self custody wallet, and this is one
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: of those tools that we've shown before. Of course, Tangum
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: is a great place to start. Check it out. Go
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to tangent dot com and you can get over there
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and just hit that little blue get Tangent button. It'll
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: bring you into the three card set and you're good
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: to go. All right, Let's, of course bring on our
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: guest today, and that's mister Mark Kohler who's coming in
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: from KKOS Lawyers. Great to see you, Mark.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me. Paul.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: I am excited to be here, and I think everybody's
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: excited to talk about taxes right normally user.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Topic jumping, Yeah, we're just jumping for joy over here.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: But the point is is that there's a lot of
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: things that are happening within the not only the tax code,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: but strategies around how deal with twenty twenty five. We're
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: in the middle of what is apparently a bull run still,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: which means there's some people out there that are getting
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: some unrealized gains right now. So we want to dive
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: into that. Just as a reminder for everybody if you've
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: got to, If you guys want to visit Mark's website,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: go over to Markjkohler dot com. You'll get a chance
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to check it out over there. And of course he
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: has a really good YouTube channel that we'll show you
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: guys here in a little bit as well, which is
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: where I found you, Mark, So great job. I've been
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: watching your videos and it's been pretty interesting to see
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: your analysis on crypto. Let's get started on some of
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: these things. And the first thing I want to kind
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of jump into is when you look at some of
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the statements that are being made right now by the
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Trump administration. They're talking about this idea of abolishing the irs.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: First of all, where's he going with this? What is
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: your theory on what Trump is up to there?
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let's maybe talk about the strategy of President
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Trump on really any topic. Then I'll give you my
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: opinion on if that's going to come to reality. This
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: is Donald Trump, which I'd love. He is a master negotiator,
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: and what he does is he goes way out there,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: freaks everybody out, and then we end up somewhere where
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: we really want to be. It's almost like if you're
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: going to, you know, sell your car, and you're like,
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: I want thirty grand and it's only worth fifteen. I
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: want thirty, and you freak someone out and then you're like, oh, okay,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: I'll work back to fifteen. And then they think they
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: got a deal at fifteen because they thought you were
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: crazy enough to get thirty. And I would never call
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: President Trump crazy. He's just a master negotiator. So he's
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: going to say abolish irs when in reality, we're going
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: to get a sweet tax legislation this year.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: So so you think all of this hurrah between Howard
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Lutnik and what he's trying to put out there is
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: all posturing for potentially a positive tax code that is
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: going to end up Would this be something obviously that
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: end up going through Congress and we just see this
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: on the other end.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is posturing. People love to talk about
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: zero taxation and abolishing the irs.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: People.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: We've got a multi trillion dollar budget that's got to
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: get funded.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Taxation is going to be here.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Now, can we save taxes, find loopholes, be strategic?
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: See both the how this works everybody. The House and
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: the Senate both put forth their blueprint last week. See,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump does not make tax legislation. He runs on
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: it and says I want to be your leader. I'm
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: going to go to Congress and try to get this
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: for you American people. But he doesn't make the law.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: So he went up to the GOP leadership last week
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: on the Hill and said, Senate, I want to see
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: tax savings and I want the Tax Cuts and Jobs
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Act reinstated, and they said okay.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: In the House said okay.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: And then they both presented a blueprint about a forty
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: five page document where they're going to carve out three
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: point five million, three five point trillion in tax breaks.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: And so they're bringing that together. They're in joint committee
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: right now and it's like watching sausage made. It's not pretty,
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: and they're so Trump's going to be there negotiating, going
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: I want this, I want this, And so this is
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: the the legislation piece that we're all watching right now.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: But we're not going to get rid of the irs
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: or taxes. We're just going to see some savings.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: All right. So let's talk about some cryptospecific tax issues
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: that seem to be brewing. One has been built around
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the US based crypto idea, So US based crypto companies.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Now Trump is out there saying, hey, maybe we could
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: eliminate or at least give better tax breaks when it
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: comes to capital gains if you're invested in crypto companies
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: that are based here in the US. So it goes
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: back to that pro America, make America great again theme
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: that he's going for. How would that play out in
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: a perfect world for a crypto investor.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Well, and Paul, you nailed it.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: This is part of his agenda to get people investing, building, buying, manufacturing,
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: all the above in the United States. And so one
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: way to do that is to say, hey, if you're
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: a crypto investor, buy some tokens that are based out
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: of the United States, and when you go to sell
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: it after twelve months.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: By the way, gain is after a twelve month hold.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: So you traders don't get you know, gleamy eyed here,
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: But after I hold this token for at least twelve months,
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: I might get a reduced capital gains rate.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And that's going to help. And why would he do that?
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: Because it stimulates the economy in the United States, It
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: creates jobs in the United States what extent. But that's
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: the theory, and I think in a perfect world it'd
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: be it'd be exciting. I just hope that the tokens
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: I like, are you know, going to be here at
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: the US always number one my investors out there, You
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: invest in what you know is best. Who cares If
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I can save between fifteen to twenty percent on the
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: tax bill tax rate, I want to buy what makes
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: freaking sense. Then it happens to align with a US
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: based opportunity.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Great, but let's not chase that.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: Let's chase what we know and is going to make
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: us money and then hopefully they coincide.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think that's the point is. You look
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: at some of the projects that we talk about on
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: the show quite a bit. Most of them are well
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: quite a few of them are based here in the US.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Even though it seems as though there's a lot of
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the blockchain companies now vying for the idea to make
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: sure that Trump and the administration knows they're a US
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: based company.
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: Ripple.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: You've got guys over at XRP obviously, and in places
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: projects like Salana, Avalanche, et cetera that have kind of
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: gone that. Hadera is another one that have kind of
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: gone in this direction. Let's talk about twenty twenty four.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: So here we are into our tax year. Now, is
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: there anything that a crypto investor who hasn't sold their
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: assets in twenty twenty four, they're still holding assets can
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: do to kind of prepare, whether it's even filing twenty
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: twenty four before April fifteenth or getting ready for twenty
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: twenty five.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: Well, you make a very interesting point, and everybody listened
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: to how Paul said that you may have bought the
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: asset in twenty twenty four, but you haven't sold it yet.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: So and you use this term earlier too. Paul, I
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: want to commend you. You're probably a tax advisor at
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: heart beside you is that he said those are no,
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: he said, those are unrealized gains.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Game.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then what that means everybody is you've got
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: a game sitting there and what you bought last year,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: but you didn't sell it in twenty twenty four.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: So I want to just tell you all, don't stress out.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: You have no tax due for twenty twenty four because
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: you didn't sell it in twenty twenty four. So that
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: brings us around to your The second half of your
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: point was what can I do this year to maybe
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: save on tax when I go to exit that token?
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Is that probably where we want to head?
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And this is a tricky one because first we'd
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: like to hold it twelve months. If that now, Again,
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: we want to make good economic decisions if it's time
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: to sell, sell now. If I can hold it for
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: twelve months, whenever that purchase state was great, I know
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: I'm going to get a lower tax rate now, everybody.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I want you to know this too.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: When people says I want capital gains rates or there's
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: a crypto tax rate, there is no crypto tax rate.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: It's either you get held at twelve months.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: And you get capital gain, which could be as high
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: as a twenty percent rate, or I hold it less
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: than twelve months and I'm going to pay the tax
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: rate of whatever bracket I'm in, which could be as
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: high as thirty nine percent. And don't forget state tax
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: in both of those situations. The second option is I
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: want to either offset the gain or defer it. So
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: offsetting means I'm going to take that profit and maybe
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: go buy some real estate. I want to defer my portfolio.
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go buy an Airbnb as short termental,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: long terminial. I'm going to do some depreciation strategies that
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: could work possibly depend on your situation, very possible. And
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: I'm going to offset the gain. And see, notice what
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: some of you are like, Well, I don't want real estate. Hey,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: we want to always be diversified. I own crypto and
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: real estate. And so if I can deploy some of
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: my crypto into real estate and use a depreciation strategy
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: to offset the gain, I'm tax neutral and I've also
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: diversified my portfolio. Third, can defer and even even eliminate
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: the gain. And so the last two points would be
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: a charitble remainder trust. And I know you've seen me
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: talk about this on YouTube, the CRUT. The crut CRUT
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: is a charitalle remainder unit trust where you can sell
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: your crypto tax free, drop it into a trust of
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: which you're the trustee, continue to invest it in crypto,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: and then set up cash flow for life and pay
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: zero tax on the initial gain, but spread out the
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: gain on any new income in the future. Powerful strategy.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: We're setting up cruts for crypto investors every week. So
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: I've got crypto, bought it for one hundred grand, it's
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: worth a million, got a built in gain of nine
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: hundred grand.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I sell it.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: I'm going to spend three hundred grand in tax. Freaking out.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Set up a crut. This charitle Remainder trust, Charitable Remainder trust.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: When you die or twenty years, whatever's left in it
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: is going to go to charity. But during your lifetime
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: that million dollars tax free, so you get to sell
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: it inside your crut. Million dollars goes in the crut.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: That as a bank account that has a crypto wallet,
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: it's going to continue to go now based on your
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: age and your gender. So say I'm a mail that's
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: thirty years old or forty years old, I'm going to
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: get an eight percent or a nine percent or ten
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: percent annual distribution from that trust for the rest of
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: my life. Asset protected from any lawsuit. So the trust
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: itself generates that income or pulls it from Principle while
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: you continue to invest it and every year it's revalued
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: against that percentage. It sounds complex. I've gotten yourtube viz
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: on it. But that's the theory and it's amazing on me.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: It looks like we're going to see crypto payments happen
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: and Europe we just did a show on this. Europe
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: is getting ready to roll out crypto payments on the blockchain.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Likelihood is we're going to see activity happening around that.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Would there be a potential here in the tax code?
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Do you see this coming of them carving out against
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: crypto payments so that we don't end up constantly dealing
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: with these capital gains because I used XRP Are you
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Solana or Avalanche to pay for something because I had
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: to sell that asset? What do you think is going
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: to happen there?
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: I I'm sorry everybody.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: It's another.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Opportunity for someone to create some ranting and raving of
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: no tax code. Oh you're not going to get taxed
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: when you use crypto for payments. Think about it this way.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: I go buy some Tesla stock for two hundred bucks,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: now it's worth four hundred. I'm going to get taxed
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: in three ways one I sell it. So my Tesla
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: stock bought it for two hundred's now worth four hundred.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: I buy XRP for a buck, is now worth two bucks.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: I'm going to pay tax when I sell it, right,
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: or I trade that XRP for Salona, or I trade
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: that Tesla stock for Ford stock. Whenever I trade crypto
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: or trade stock for something else, I have to pay
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the tax on the game because there was a game
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: built in there. Well, then I go, well, Mark, I'm
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: going to go use it to buy something. I'm going
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: to just go take I'm gonna go to one of
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: those cool ATMs, take my XRP and go by a Hamburger. Well, basically,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: what you did is sell your XRP to give it
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: to a restaurant that's going to give you a hamburger.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: So to say that I'm not going to get taxed
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: on that built in gain just because I went and
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: bought something, I don't see it, and I hate to
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: tell you that's just me.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well I mean this, I mean it's definitely going
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: to be I think a sticking point. We'll see how
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: David Sachs the cryptos are deals with this, because they're
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: going to have to advise the IRS at some point
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: to be able to initiate crypto payments on the blockchain,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: there's going to have to be some kind of scenario
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: that whether that's like a transfer of the asset, because
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: if I transfer the asset from me to you for
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: a service, did I sell the asset?
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: That's how the Yeah, that's how the IRS taxes it.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: Right now, the crypto task course at the IRS is
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: very very clear on that, and it's reflected in the blockchain.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: You owned a piece of token, you got rid of
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: the token. I don't care if you sold it, traded it,
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: or bought something with it.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: You now longer know. You no longer own it.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: So what the hell I buy it for versus what
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: I trade for it or exchange for it. So in
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: our law firm, we take crypto as a payment of services.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: And sure, great, yeah, well I think you know what
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: we're trying to establish, because there are several countries that
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: have been able to circumvent this. Now, granted they're not
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the federal tax side of things, but if you look
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: at Asia, there's a handful of countries over there that
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: have been able to carve out crypto payments and avoid
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: you know, the taxation side of it, at least from
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: you know, the sale of the data set. So it'll
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: be it'll be interesting to see.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: How this works.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Have you dealt with any liquid staking yet?
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I have not. I have not.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: Staking is a tricky one too, because you're taxed as
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: you get your staking rewards, right, and a lot of
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: people don't realize that, and that's taxed to ordinary income levels.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: It's like, you know, so we've got to be careful
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: with that. And the software is out there coinly pick
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: it right.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Up right, Well, liquid steaking, if I'm owning Avalanche or
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: you know, Solana and I want to liquid steak it,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: basically have to make the sale at that time to
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: be able to put it into steak Solana or steaked Avalanche.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: And at that point I'm now garnering yields on that liquid.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: But I can also use it in DeFi meaning I
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: can make that thing work versus in if I'm holding
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the asset, I have to actually sell it to be
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: able to use it. But now with liquid staking, so
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: it creates some very intriguing things. My question is is
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the IRS really ready for all of this innovation that
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: we're seeing because this is really all being almost developed
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: real time.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know what, I don't want to talk
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: condescendingly to any what I love. I've been a huge
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: fan of crypto. I'm saving my best tax strategy for
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: the last reveal here on the show. All right, I
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: like it, but I'm a huge I was just checking
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: my wallet here in value and I'm like bullish on
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: XRP right now.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: But anyway, so I want you guys to all know
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: I'm on your side. I'm on your side of the table.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: I would love any tax saving strategy we can for crypto.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: But you're no different than anyone else. It's like real estate,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: it's a business. I'm in the metaverse. I'm not in
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: the metaverse.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. And I hate to say this people.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry that the more innovative we get, did you
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: get crypto for doing something? Did your crypto that you
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: own now give you more crypto? Did you sell it?
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: You go down to the basics and IRS is like,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: I don't care about all the mumbo joumbo. Whatever the
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: hell you made money, You're going to pay tax on it. Sorry,
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: And we don't get special rules in the crypto world.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I wish I did so.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we are dealing with the you know, some
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: different frameworks here. Let's us you know, right now, we're
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: already dealing with this today, and that is air drops.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: And this can come from anyone, from anywhere. You know,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I'm an influencer. I'm a big media guy. Once somebody
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: finds my wallet, they start dropping in tokens.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: So I've all of a sudden got tokens that I
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: didn't buy, didn't ask for, didn't solicit in any way,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: but yet they're there. And in some cases they could
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: be valued at hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of dollars.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: So how do I deal with something like that? You know,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: it's like I guess a gift or how is it treated?
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: You nail it? It's like a gift.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: Let's say I go to the mall and I'm walking
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: down the mall and someone walks up and goes, hey,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: they have some giveaway. They give you some lotion, or
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: they give you a new cell phone case, or they
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: give you something.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Do I pay tax on that?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: No?
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: If I take it and go sell it, now I've
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: got a game.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: It so whenever I receive something and guess what, my
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: basis is zero because I didn't pay for it. So
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: if someone gave me a collector's comic book walking through
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: the Mall as a promo and a year later I
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: sell it and it's worth a thousand dollars, I'm going
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: to pay tax on a thousand dollars.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So so really it ends up on the backside,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: you know, on the sale of the asset to really
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: create it. Anytime you're creating income of where this goes?
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: All right, So I've got to ask you that, well,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you when you look at what
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: we're going to take, save your reveal for last okay
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: on in terms of the action.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: And I was looking over here because I wanted you
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: to know, Paul, I actually have a crystal ball.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: So when we're looking at this, I I can touch
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: this here and we're going to get the real answer.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: So I just wanted to got this here ready to go.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: We're ready.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: This is going to be good. But I do want
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: to get your opinion on this. Right here, I'm going
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: to play a clip for you and what President Trump
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: was talking about in terms of a dividend and what
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: this might look like. Take a look.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: There's even under consideration a new concept where we give
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: twenty percent of the DOGE savings to American citizens, and
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: we're thinking about giving twenty percent back to the American
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: citizens and twenty percent down to pay back debt and
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: pay down debt. By doing this, americans will tell us
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: where there's waste. They'll be reporting it themselves. They participate
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: in the process of saving money.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: I love that clip, but doesn't even get us all excited.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, the government's going to give me back some
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: of the money that they, you know, wasted. Love it.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: It would be taxes a refund. We pay taxes and
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: to the government, and sometimes we get a refund because
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: we've overpaid, or there's a tax credit, or there's something
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: like this that could generate a refund from the government.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: Refunds from the federal government are not taxable, and I
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: think this would just be phenomenal that if whatever, if
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: I'd be thrilled to get a check for eighty two
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: dollars and nineteen cents thank you, you know, and so,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: but it would not be taxable, and I couldn't see that.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: What are other ways that we could do things to
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: help lower our tax requirement.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: You bet this is one of This is my primary
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: strategy that I employ as well well. And we want
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: to and I'm going to say this way too, folks,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: there's not one size fits all, and there's also not
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: one silver bullet. We want to have a whole toolbox
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: of strategies. We want to be looking at our holding period.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: We might be offsetting some taxes with a strategy on
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: the side, we might be redeploying money here, we might
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: be harvesting losses like you said. So it's all the
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: little things that add up that give you proper tax
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: strategy and working with an accountant that understands crypto taxation
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: for crying out loud. We have a network of CPAs
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: and enrolled agents we built around the country with my
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: network task Pro network, and so if you're looking for
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: an account you can find one. I don't make any
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: money on it. I just train them and spit them
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: out for America and I love it. So you want
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: to have that meeting to really strategize as a whole. Now,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: with that said, my favorite tool, the one that just
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: makes it happen, and you know this is a roth ira,
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: the roth four one k a roth Ira. Now, this
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: is the concept I would share with all of you.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Is called opportunity shifting. If someone says, oh, well, I'm
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: going to buy one hundred XRP or a thousand XRP.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Was a trade two or three bucks right now, So
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: I'm going to spend three grand and buy a thousand XRP. Okay, cool,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: don't do it. What it's a great deal right now? Yeah,
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: let your roth ira do it? Well, why would I
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: do that?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Well, when you sell it and trade it and build it,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: you will never pay tax on it.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: And some of you young people are like, well, it's
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: in my roth ira, I can never get it.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Anything you put in a roth ira you can always
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: take out penalty free, tax free at any age. But
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: the growth is going to be there when you're older,
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: like a tax free atm. It's amazing. Peter Thiel has
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: a six billion dollar wroth that he started with five
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: grand in nineteen ninety nine and twenty five years he
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: built it into six billion dollars and let me if
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: I may pull it a quick example. This was a
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: client I wrote on this before in the summer. This
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: last summer, they went to work. They really they had
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: about ten to fifteen grand sitting in a four oh
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: one K at work, just been there getting matches and
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: whatever the hell. They had not converted it to a wroth.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: So they called up at work and converted it to
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: a wroth. Now this client was young, they were married.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: They were making some money in their crypto wallet over
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: here personally, but they were always fighting the tax battle.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: And I said, I want you.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: To harvest thirty or thirty grand of crypto over here
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: when there's a little dip, and I want you to
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: grab it and we're going to put it into roth
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: irase for you and your wife. So seven grand each
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: for twenty twenty four, which you can still do people,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: and then seven grand each for twenty twenty five, which
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: the door's open right now. So they were able to
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: take fourteen grand times two twenty eight thousand dollars and
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: i'll say ten grand from the four oh one K.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: So that was.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: All wroth money of thirty eight thousand. So they went
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: and bought back in November. They were we had pooling
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: wroth money back in November, they bought about forty thousand
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: dollars of XRP in the first week of November for Donald.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Trump was elected. Great timing, great timing.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: That forty thousand dollars I just bumped into him the
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: other day is now worth one hundred and ten thousand
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: dollars tax free free, they'll never pay tax on it.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: But how does he get to it? Though? So seven
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: grand is my is my contribution annually that I'm putting
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: into it? And is that in crypto as well? So
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I can only put in seven grand in crypto as
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: well each year per person. And you're I guess if
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: you're married. But now that it's worth that one hundred
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars, what is my ability to get to that
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: asset if I need it?
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: You bet?
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: There's two points here, but I answer that one specifically. First,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: you have a couple options. One, I don't want you
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: to get to it.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: People.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: Guess what age fifty nine and a half comes faster
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: than you realize. Sure, I know policy he's in his thirties.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: He'll tell you too, though. It's going to hate you people.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: And you know how many Americans over forty percent of
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: Americans over the age of sixty don't even have one
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars in a bank account, and they social security.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Is poverty level, so we have got to start putting
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: it aside.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Just a few seven thousand, seven thousand people at a
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: twenty percent ROI, it'll be worth a million dollars when
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: you turn fifty nine and a half tax free, and
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: you won't even think twice about it.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's point number two.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: You can borrow against it up to fifty thousand or
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: fifty percent whenever necessary to start a business. What I
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: do is I can do the roth inside a four
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: oh one k where you can borrow against it. You
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: can also do it's called a sixty day rollover. I
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: can pull the money out, use it for sixty days
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: for an investment, and put it right back for a
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: quick turn on something.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: It's called a sixty day rollover.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: But the primary purpose, and I think Paul and I
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: would be united on this, is this is a safety
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: net that every American needs to build just five grand
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: a year, four or five hundred bucks a month just
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: to have a going there out of mind buying the tokens.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: You're excited about tax free growth. So and by the way,
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: second point that's step one. If any of you have
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: a small business that we talked about a little earlier
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: in the show. You can set up your own solophoro
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: and K. With the combination of a SOLOFORO and K
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: in a ROTH, I can stack it into what's called
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: a megabackdoor roth. This year I can put seventy five
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: grand into a roth Ira. And so now I'm really
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: doubling down if you have the income. So what we
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: want to do, back to the point is opportunity shift.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: I want to just take a little bit, piece it out,
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: piece it out, and pretty soon your portfolio starts to
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: be more and more tax free. Why worry about taxes
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: in the first place, Just create tax free income.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: That's the way.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I like the idea of barring against and I think
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: with the roth iry you have an exit plan.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: What is it.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: What's the age that you.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Fifty nine and a half?
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, So at that point can someone so someoney even
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: in their fifties, can still could they bull run this,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you know, in terms of kind of bull rush it,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: I should say, be able to accelerate it in some way.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, many people that are looking down the barrel at retirement,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: they're in their forties. Some of You may be listening
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: here and you're like Mark, I don't have a retirement
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: at all. That's double down. Now we could start funding
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: it through a small business solo four ohin k or
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: the roth ira and start really pumping money into it
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: during this bull run.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: You can buy real estate with.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Your roth you can buy crypto with your wrath and
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: really double down. And here's a cool strategy to Paul.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: How many of you have a grandma, right? I think
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: all of you now if she's still alive and well,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: or grandma or grandpa.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Go to grandma and go, hey, Grandma, you got a
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: roth ira? No, I don't have. Anybody can have one
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: at any age.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: So you go to grandma who's already getting in social
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: Security or has some investment income, or you give her
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: a ten ninety nine from your little LLC and you say, Grandma,
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: I want you to put that in a roth ira
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: and make me the beneficiary. See where I'm going, Paul.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: This is a killer strategy. So Grandma opens up a
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: roth ira, I fund it for her as a gift
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: or a payment, and then makes me the beneficiary. And
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: I say, here's seven grand grand I sell some crypto
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: over here, move it into Grandma's roth when she passes away,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: I get it tax free, and I can pull it
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: out at any age. I could be in my thirties
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: or forties. I've got ten years to keep investing it
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: or drain it. So now I've got a tax free
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: ATM that i'm training with, training tax free for ten years.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: That because I funded Grandma's Rotha student every day.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I'm learning a lot of stuff here from you, Mark,
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: So we're going to keep watching your YouTube channel for sure.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: So you guys, you guys check out Mark's website marje
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Cohler right there. You can learn a little bit more
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: about what's going on and great stuff here. I think
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: as we start to see so much in the way
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: of tax strategy, I think a lot of people are
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: coming into wealth, maybe for the very first time, so
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: understanding how to navigate this, especially in a bull run
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: like what we're dealing with right now, where people are
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: setting in fairly good profits even though markets down is slightly,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: but the likelihood is we're going to see another surge
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: up and you're going to have a lot of crypto
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: profits out there that need to have a good tracks
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: strategy behind it. So it's been great having you on.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for stopping in today. We appreciate it.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Oh, Paul, thank you. You do such a great job. I'm
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: a huge fan and watching you as well.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: All right, thanks a lot mark. All right, you guys,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: make sure and tune in right here. If you guys
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: are not subscribed, make sure and do that. And of
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: course if you're not in the Diamond Circle, get in.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: That's our own private email group. Always follow me out
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: there on X It's just at Paul Baron Catchment. We'll
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: catch you next time right here on Techpath.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: Thank you.