Latest / Books4Guys / Don't Be First. Be Right: The Power of Timing in Business | Jason Voiovich

Transcript

Don't Be First. Be Right: The Power of Timing in Business | Jason Voiovich · Books4Guys

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to show your book.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've got it right here.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sending it.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I've talked to a lot of people, a lot of my friends know that time is something that fascinates me a lot.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think about it in different ways.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And when I actually got your book in the mail, my first thought was, you know, without reading into it or knowing anything really about it, just the word now popped up.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I what I thought your book was going to be about was more in lines with if you're thinking of starting something or promoting something, like just go now.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: But completely different as you dive into a lot of different ways to think about time.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love how it's structured with myths about time before each of your chapters.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because actually, when I started scrolling through it, I started, I read those first on just some of the time myths.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a couple I want to talk about specifically because they just caught my attention.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I like the way you described it.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: But nonetheless, man, this is your second time on the Books for Guys podcast.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it is uh, dude, it's an honor to have you back.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's really great to be here.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: I am a massive fan of the mission, uh, partly because, you know, when I was, you know, the target age, the people you're trying to meet, you know, you know, kids playing sports in high school, you know, middle school.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was the kind of guy that needed to read.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I discovered reading and I discovered history at that time.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the way I thought about it was it was like, it was like watching film.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're if you're thinking about like, I want to perform well in the game.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, everyone knows you got to step up and be clutch when when the moment is there.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: But that means you got to be practicing.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: You got to take enough shots so that you know your body just acts on instinct.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: But what I learned at that time is every great player watches a lot of film.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where you kind of learn.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's where you get that unfair advantage where you're like, you can practice all you want, but if you practice doing the wrong thing, like, well, you're gonna perform as well as you practice.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So watching film was the way to say, oh, I see how that guy protects the ball.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna practice that because I wanna get better at that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So when I thought about that, I discovered history at about the same time that I was learning that lesson.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought about it like watching film.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I need to be able to see those patterns before others do.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm gonna be successful as a creative person, as an innovator, someone who's gonna launch new products and have any success at all.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I can practice and I can make sure I'm doing it a lot and I'm kind of acting right when the moment comes.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But history is kind of a cheat code.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's the unfair advantage.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I get to learn from hundreds of people who have done it right and done it wrong.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that way I can practice doing it the right way.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of the reason I'm such a big fan of Books for Guys, sponsor of Books for Guys, is other guys like me need to hear this lesson right now in high school because I did.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And because I did, I became more successful.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 51 now and on my fourth business, launched hundreds of products, had some good success in life.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've been really blessed, been really lucky, but I practice hard and I watch a lot of film.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever young man needs to hear this right now, watch film.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where the history is, that's where the books are.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I'm so obsessed with it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a theme to all your books.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've learned something from every one of them because you do provide and you do it in an entertaining way.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot of history to them, and and you you do a really good way, like you create a path and a guide of here's what happened, and here's why this took place, and here's where we're at today.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And this book's very similar.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's stories in there about what's taking place.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we talk about that all the time on this podcast about how books are such a blueprint for no matter what you're trying to accomplish, trying to build a business.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's books out there that you can take things from instead of going through it on your own and having all these headaches and roadblocks.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can skip some of those.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you'll take just a little bit of time to take some notes, read, read from someone who's already been there, done that, and your book does a really good thing.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: All your books do, again, I've learned from each of them because of the way you structure them and the stories you share.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's knowledge I've gained, there's cheat codes I've taken as I'm building books for guys and just thinking of things in different ways.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just like the fact that you're it's not, it's not a textbook.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: You you have fun stories to it, and I also learn from it, which is I think hard to do.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of books aren't like that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think about it this way, you know, you want to succeed at anything.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you've got to be, you know, like, what does success mean?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's being right, right moment in time with the right action, with the right people.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: All that stuff needs to be right.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how do you do that?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you got to practice.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to be making sure that you're ready when that moment comes so that your body just acts on instinct.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Your mind is sharp and it's ready.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how do you do that?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do you know what to practice?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's what the books are for.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the I consider my biggest challenge in writing these books isn't the idea.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's how to tell the idea in an entertaining way, because otherwise people won't listen to it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how many times was I in in high school and man, I hated high school?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: I hated school and I hated history class, I hated all of this stuff until I started to get good teachers and eventually in college, good professors who told stories.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And when they told the story, and I was really excited and engaged by that, I'm like, wow, holy shit.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to know why Julius Caesar did it this way at this time.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of want to get into his head.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I learned more about the Romans at that time.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or I wanted to learn more about Edison.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, ah, why was he such a dick?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was kind of a dick.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why was he still successful?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went and I learned about it.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I wouldn't have learned about it had it just like, well, here's the list of inventions Edison had and kind of the dates and the times.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, imagine if they started the conversation with so everyone knows Edison was a dick.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Immediately you would probably go, something's interesting here.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, somebody started to be real with me.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, somebody started to be real.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Give me something that like grabs my attention like that.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, what are they about to say next?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not just, here we go, turn to chapter 35 in this book, you know.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the thing.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: When you get to you listen to some of these, uh, you know, read my books.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I listened to Dan Carlin's podcast, Hardcore History.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you really want to understand just what he talks about, kind of the extremes of human experience from a historical perspective.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about like it wasn't like, well, Alexander the Great went to this place and beat this guy in this battle at this date, at this place.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's what was going through Alexander's head?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: How was he thinking about it?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: How is he playing the psychological game on that opponent so that he beat him before he even showed up?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's the sort of thing that whatever you're excited about, you can take from that and say, in the next game I'm at, I'm gonna try to psych the guy out in that same way.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know what, I'm thinking about starting up my own business when I graduate high school.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I need to kind of do it like Edison did this thing.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, those are the sort of things you learn, and you just never would have thought of them otherwise.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so many things that people did that are good ideas and a lot of bad ideas, of course.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it's you get to learn from all of those people, not just your own gut or your own practice or the people in your immediate area.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much more than that.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and this goes right into the first thing that caught my eye on Jason.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'll have you explain a little bit.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it caught my eye because it was like at the front of the book, and I was like, oh, that's an interesting uh I immediately resonated with it because it does correlate with some of the stuff that I'm trying to build.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: But your very first timing myth is first movers always have the advantage.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a myth.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: First movers always have the advantage.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that correlates a lot with what you're saying right now is you can learn a lot from the people that that start first and you can figure out things a little better.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: But but talk about that in your own words.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I was, when I first opened your book, I immediately was like, before I read anything about it, I was like, this is what I'm talking about.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can learn from other people.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: But what was your thoughts as you put that first chapter and that first myth together?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: I like it when I think about timing and when I looked at it through that lens, I thought, what is the thing that people talk to me about all the time?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's almost reflexive that, like, hey, we need to have first mover advantage.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: You want to be the first one out.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's the most important thing.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just knew from my own experience, I'm like, well, that's BS.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: It just never works.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually tried to find good examples of when it did.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there are preciously few of them.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: There are just so many examples of people think, like, well, you know, Apple was the first one out with these things.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, they weren't.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Apple was not the first one out with a graphical user interface.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't the first personal computer.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't the first smartphone.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't the first music player.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't the first anything.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: What their strategy was and still is, is look at who's getting out there and taking all the hits.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Look at the guy who is going out and running onto the field first without a good plan and just getting just getting crushed right out of the gate.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or, hey, 10 guys went out, eight of them got crushed, two kind of got around some defenders, and now they're kind of in the backfield a little bit, you know, use a metaphor.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: But they're not really, they don't know how to kind of go the distance because they don't have a good plan, but they made it through a little bit.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: You sit back, you're watching them, you always want to be the second mover.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: You want to look at who is out there, who went first, what hits did they take.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's going to be 80% of all of the lessons you need to learn.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: That first guy is going to take all of those hits and say, Oh, got it.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: I see what they did wrong.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to fix those things.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I might still take a couple of hits out there, but I'm 80% ahead of where they am or where they're where they are.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, they might be out in the market first, but think about what happens when you are in the market first with anything.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: You have to teach the market what your product is and why it's good.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you're doing a lot of education, not a lot of advertising.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you're spending a lot of money just teaching you why this is important.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And okay, yeah, your product is the only one out there.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So of course they're going to buy yours.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when that second company comes out with a better product, faster, well, now there are two products in the market.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So all that work you did, you did 100% of the work to get the product out there.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And now someone's going to come and take 50% of your business or probably take the whole business.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so what Facebook did to MySpace.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Tech companies are masters at this, but it happens all the time.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: You can think about pretty much any domain out there.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's always the follow-up person that actually does is the most successful out there.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to make sure that people saw that that, hey, if you're not first, like people a lot of times will think, well, someone else had that idea.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: What you shouldn't be thinking is, well, that's not a good idea.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: The question you need to ask yourself is, okay, well, what makes that an interesting idea?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: What are they doing right now?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're spending time educating the market.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Where are they making a mistake?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, look at that and say, okay, when I launch my product, here's how I'm going to make mine a little bit different, and I'm not going to make those eight mistakes.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And your entry into the market will be so much easier.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're thinking about starting something and you're young, you don't have the money to go around and educate the market.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: You should be following behind in the slipstream of someone else who's already doing it.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that is just proven to be successful for hundreds of years.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's the strategy.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it just it kind of pisses me off that more people don't know that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, now you do.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you know, don't screw it up.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a tried and true method.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking about just examples of that because I listen to business podcasts all the time, and they'll say the like people businesses.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I hate, I hear people all the time say, Well, that's already out there, that's already out there.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: But people, there's so many things you can go fine-tune and make just a little bit better and be able to sell a product or to to offer a service.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many people out there, too.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, not every product is touching, you know, every single person.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I was thinking of it too, like just investing.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: People are always trying to do different things.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, just stick to the the method, it always works.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like people, there's lots of newsletters out there, but if you have something different, interesting, like you can make a newsletter successful.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Still today, a podcast.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's new podcasts becoming number one all the time, you know.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like it because same with products, just you can find your little niche, your little changeup, follow their blueprint up to a certain point.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: You can do your twist on it, and bam, there you go.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't you don't have to reinvent the wheel, just make the wheel a little better.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just uh put a different tire on it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think people overplay how much they need to do in order to differentiate.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: They think they need to differentiate the entire thing.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, no, what do people care about?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you're watching when you're seeing the first mover out there.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're seeing what you're not watching is as much what they're doing.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: You're watching how customers are reacting to it.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: What are they asking for?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: What of the 10 features, what's the one thing that everybody is really gung-ho for?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, make sure that when you think about that, okay, well, here's my offer.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna make sure to focus on that one thing that I know people are really excited about, make that thing better, and essentially do the rest of the things like, hey, don't waste time on those things.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: They've already figured it out.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do basically the same thing there, but differentiate on the one thing that you've observed customers really want and they really want to pay attention to.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: When you do that, you win.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a, hey, I've got everything that Chris has, but my thing is better in this specific way than I know you really want.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you win.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing I like about your book, Jason, the way you write.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that you're telling people like not to do something.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're almost saying, like, hey, here's where maybe you could get hung up, but here's how you could approach it a little bit differently and be successful.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not one of those, like, don't do this, only do this.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, here's some examples of why this may not be totally accurate.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the other side of that.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so you you kind of like reality, give hope.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Reality, give hope.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's kind of how each chapter was reading to me, like, huh, how am I thinking about this wrong?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I see what Jason's trying to teach me.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: This makes a lot of sense.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of opened up the way I thought.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this kind of goes in because we were talking about people creating, you know, the first thing or whatever.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing that caught my eye, and I love the way you you describe this, and it was know the difference between invention and innovation.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not gonna read the whole paragraph, but you have invention is often a solo performance.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Innovation is an can you explain your thoughts a little bit?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because the I just read that first sentence and I was like, makes a lot of sense.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think I know where Jason's going with this.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was worded beautifully the way that you described it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, I appreciate that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: We tend to use invention and innovation and creativity interchangeably, but they're not.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is important for you guys, young men listening to this, you gotta understand the difference between those two things.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: An invention is something that you are doing creatively in your own head.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's your idea.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's you kind of thinking about it, writing it down, practicing it yourself.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Innovation is when that works in a game against a real opponent, in the kind of in the moment, in the system with okay, the rest of your teammates.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you can think about that in a sports context or a band context or a you know, business context, doesn't really matter.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Invention is your own mental process, your own practice, which is vital.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: You have to do that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: But innovation is when you make your opponent react differently to you.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now you know you've innovated.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: In a business context, that means that, like, hey, I've got a better mouse trap, but if no one buys it and no one uses it, I have not innovated.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've invented, but I haven't innovated.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Most people don't know that 80% or more of all patents that are active right now, not like expired, you know, the 25 years.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: 80% of patents aren't being used at all.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're just sitting there.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like people think like, oh, you got a patent, you're making bank.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Most people, the vast majority of people make nothing off a patent because they've invented.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: But innovation is a customer saying, I'm going to hand over money for that.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: There is a big, big difference.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how many times have you practiced a particular move for a game and it just doesn't work?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: You've invented, but you haven't innovated.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: You've innovated when you smoke that guy and he's gone and he doesn't know how to react to you.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now you've innovated.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a difference.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to just, there are a lot of different ways to think about that metaphorically, but whatever works for you in understanding the difference between those two things as you're listening to this, once you know it, you won't forget it again.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, I got to do both things.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: But real creativity and where you make money and where you have success is when other people react to you and they say, you've done something really cool and I want a part of that.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to part with money, or I'm going to, you know, I'm going to try to copy that.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's usually how you know you're on to something, is it other people are trying to copy that move?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's, you know, and I talk about that also, Chris, in the context of, you know, when you think about innovating and you're working with other people, think about it from a you're on the field metaphor.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this is like more like team sports, not like tennis or something.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you've got your own team, you've got the other team, you've got the rules of the game, you have a whole mix of things going on.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of what the orchestra metaphor is for from kind of a band perspective.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: That, yeah, you can be playing your own instrument, you can have your own game, but if you're not in sync with your team and the other team is doing something that you're not responding to, you're in a lot of trouble.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the innovation process is not just you practicing, but you knowing, okay, my teammates, I know they're practicing that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know what their strengths are.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to practice to complement that strength.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm watching enough film to know what the opposing team's going to be doing.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm studying that.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of working all of those angles together.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of what a good coach will help you do.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what great coaches do, is they help understand how all the pieces get together.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Think about the innovation process as you got to be your own coach.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what is special about that.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, I got to think like a coach, not a player.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Inventors think like players.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Innovators think like coaches.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's the difference.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Man, it made it this makes so much sense.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: As I was reading, I mean, everything was clicking.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I just, again, it's not something I think about every day.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I probably, there probably will be things that I think about as I build certain things out now.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think your book's incredible.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to go through all the myths because all of them are awesome.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love how each chapter starts, but there was one other one that I wanted to get your take on because I understand what you were saying.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: I also want to kind of like ask you how to compare the two.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the other myths, uh, and it was timing myth four, customers will wait for better features.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was thinking of this in terms of, you know, I've even said myself, like, I'm gonna wait and get the next iPhone when it's, you know, better than this, this one.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: But there's so many people that go out and just buy that phone, and I end up buying it too.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I was thinking of it in terms too of the first point we talked about, where we were talking about first, you know, you don't have to be first to the market to sell.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was kind of just curious, like how you differentiated those two, because the way I was thinking about it was you could be first, even if you don't have all the features.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: The second person could could make something with better features and take the market.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean the first person's not successful by putting something out there first.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So just how were you differentiating that?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And can you dive in a little to both?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was thinking of both as I got to that myth.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's uh people are thinking about it, it's really how you're thinking about your invention, your innovation, you know, as you're putting together.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Most people think about it in terms of the me, my product, my features that I'm going to have in my product, and how are those, how is the market going to respond to that?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Which is fine.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of have to do that.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: But what I see with successful innovators is they flip that and they think in terms of what their customer needs.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: What are their, what are their emotional pain points?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: How are they viewing urgency from a timing perspective?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: We think about I in the Book, I talk a lot about perceptual time, like how people think about time outside of just a calendar or a sequence.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's how people think about time, like, is it going fast or is it going slow?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Am I in pain?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I need an urgent solution right now.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Successful innovators think about their customer 80% of the time and their own product 20% of the time.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: So they're thinking about not the feature that's going to do it, it's what is the situation that's happening for them right now.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to think about it in terms of okay, let's say the easiest example is a simple one.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you just bought a car, you went out, you bought a car, and 10 days later, you see an ad for another car.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Are you paying attention?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Of course not.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: You just bought a car.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: You might pay a little attention because you're still in the mental mind, but are you ready to buy another car?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Most people aren't.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are a few who, you know, who who will do that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: But for most of us, most normal people, you bought a car, you're kind of done.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: You just left a restaurant and you ate.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to go to the next restaurant?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: You got to be thinking about like what's going on in that person's head at that particular time and how urgent it is.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all a matter of if you're saying, hey, I need another 10 months to get this next set of features in, but people have urgency right now, figure out what is the urgency that's driving the purchase right now, and say, you know what, those other nine things can wait.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm going to work on that one thing.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I hate to use the example too often, but in 07, 08, when Apple launched the first iPhone, uh, you know, some of the most people listen to this be old enough to either remember that or have heard of it.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Most people who are younger might not have really realized what the reaction in the market was to that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, nah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's dumb.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't do anything.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: It really didn't do much.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was basically like a little web browser and it had email and it didn't have a keyboard.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: That was a big deal at the time.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: All the blackberries had keyboards, so it was like, this thing's a joke.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it it had the one feature that people were kind of urgent for right now was like, I want something that's kind of cool.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like Blackberries weren't cool, they just weren't.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: They were kind of a business thing.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: You had it, like, yo, they were kind of a sign that you were kind of a corporate grinder and you were kind of a nothing.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And iPhone was like, wow, I kind of want that, but I'm the cool kid.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I want that.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: It had style.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So Apple focused on like, hey, I'm gonna let the other stuff go.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna focus on releasing something that is really, really cool right now, knowing that, hey, in a few months I'm gonna have a new one.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: And another year I'm gonna have something better.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna only get better.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: But they focused on the one thing, their differentiator, because BlackBerry was first to the market.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: They were second.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: They knew I don't have to be as good as BlackBerry on a tech spec perspective.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: I just need to be cooler than them.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And Steve Jobs, for all his faults, was really good at being cooler than you.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so that's kind of what I'm getting at when people think about time.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I think one of the underlying lessons in the whole book is a good competitor, obviously, you know, you know, a good athlete obviously is working on their game all the time.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: But they are also, you know, obsessed about how am I, you know, how am I gonna beat these guys out there?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: They are obsessed with the game and they really think about that.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's how I'd how I'd reconcile those.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: You think more about your audience than you think about what your offer is, and they will tell you what they want.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: It just takes some humility to get out there and listen.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's that's the tricky part because you have a good, good idea and you fall in love with your idea.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: And what you want to do is you want to fall in love with your audience's need, want, and problem.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Don't fall in love with your solution.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Man, Jason, there's so there's so many good.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Again, this is one of those books you could you could go back to for just reminders, if nothing else, to kind of look through and go, okay, I've I need to change the way I'm thinking about this, or if you're stuck somewhere.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm even thinking like in a college marketing class, like how much I would have enjoyed reading this to get pointers, and maybe I'm trying to be entrepreneurial and I'm trying to create a business or a product.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and and I would love to, we can talk more about trying to to get this maybe into some universities because I could see where students would, instead of just reading examples through a textbook, again, having something like this that gives just real-world examples and stories.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you're it almost like motivates me to want to start another business or something too.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I'm like, okay, this makes sense.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let me try this and we'll do it better this time.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I just love again, uh the way that you've written it, and it's not a long read, it's broken up in pieces to where it's easy to go, hey, myth, myth number five, cool, what's the lesson behind it?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Myth number seven, cool, what's the lesson behind it?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was easy for me to take things from without having to go too deep into it.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's something I was able to like kind of glance at, and I read the whole thing, but there were points where I was like, this is interesting, what's he got to say about that?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able in 10 minutes to get what your lesson was there.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just I'm a big fan of the way you wrote this book.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's different from your other books.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there's history, but your other books are much longer.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Also, more they're enjoyable too, but this is just kind of a different, different style overall than what you know those two books were.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And this, I found this just to be very, I don't know, maybe because I'm further along and what I'm trying to build, it just there were things that I was able to catch.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I really do think, especially young people, old people too, you know, whatever, but you know, people who are inspired to build something, I think this would be a great book to read as you're doing that because it may set you up to do things a little bit better and think a little differently as you're going through some of these stages.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest thing I want to show people in the book is that, you know, of all the things you got to think about.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: My dad was in the business.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, he was he was a creative director.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And he used to say, you know, things he learned.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: He was in the madmen era of advertising, you know, kids look that up.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was a good show.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Basically said one of the many lessons was anyone will buy almost anything at the right time.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when you think about in business-to-business marketing, which I do a lot of, we have something called the 95-5 rule.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: It means that even if you identified your target market 100% perfectly, you knew these are the buyers for my software or for my product or whatever.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Only 5% of those buyers will be ready to buy at any given time on average.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Your trick is to find that out and find out what those triggers are so that when you have all of those messages that you know, like in 708, if you were launching the iPhone and I had just bought a Blackberry, am I buying the iPhone?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not the first one for sure.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna wait till the next cycle.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you got to be playing the long game and timing is critical.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And most people don't have a really good idea of how to think about time constructively.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: They think like, well, what day to launch or what time of the year or whatever.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so much more intense than that.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to give people a way to think about it that they won't be able to forget once they know it.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll be able to help them be creative and innovative in ways that will help make them more successful.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely love it, man.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've got it, we've got it posted on the website.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have it posted on on every other channel of ours.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And again, we're we're excited to spotlight this book.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Jason, I'm excited to talk with you more too about just how to get it in other in more people's hands, especially maybe at the the university level, because I was just thinking back as I went through marketing classes.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is a book that I would have actually really enjoyed reading and and would have gotten a lot out of.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so, man, I I know it's freshly new.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know it just was released.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, I'm excited in the coming months to talk with you more to just to see all the potential that that it's moved through and and the impact it's having on people who are reading it and to hear some of the things that they're saying to you.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and hopefully we can work together and get this in in quite a few hands.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, I think it's just a really good book that people can take things from and implement rather easily into what they're trying to build.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so, man, if this was this was better than the first conversation.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I think it's just because I'm at a different spot in what I'm building.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So this book really resonated with me personally, but I know you have a lot more work to do too, and you've got probably, I don't know how many projects you ever have going on at once.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: You've started different businesses and launched different products.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we're gonna have more conversations with more books that come out like this one.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a couple of things going on right now.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: On my website, jasonboyovich.com.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can see there are a couple of things going on.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: One is I'm using the method in that book that's full of historical case studies, quick things that it's like a coaching book.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: You can start to put those into action right now.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: On the website, I'm publishing research in public on, you know, I did one on what are the timing implications like for the cyclocipriasis outbreak.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why was that so hard to solve?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that the stomach flu thing where you had the explosive diarrhea, that one.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully you didn't get it.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening to this and you had it, God bless you.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very sorry.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I wrote a whole essay using the ideas in that book on why was that so hard to figure out?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a timing problem because the, you know, because it was a fast moving produce like lettuce goes bad in your fridge in a few days, but you're not sick for two weeks.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're going back to try to figure out what you ate, you can't test the lettuce anymore because it's in the garbage, it's gone.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it there is that timing gap.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote my latest one is on e-bikes, and I'm working on a new one about the wine industry and what's going on right now.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: All timing issues that help make the ideas in the book like, oh, I totally get it, and here's why it's important right now, not just the historical stuff.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And like, oh, I think I can apply that.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, if you're in doing something with e-bikes right now, timing is the major issue, and you really need to read that essay, read the book, and it'll really start to click even more.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm doing that.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have a research project that I know you know about, Chris, where I am exploring how AI is changing the innovation process in terms of how fast it takes, the steps that are needed, and how people perceive that time and what's happening there.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's active research kind of out there right now.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: The whole idea is I'm just watching more film.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing more practicing because what my clients expect of me is when we're launching the product that it hits.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta make sure that I'm right.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I gotta watch film, I gotta practice, and that's what I'm doing.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of living what I'm suggesting that all of you do is get in there, read more books, watch more film, you'll be better.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's uh another lesson I preach.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: The most successful people out there are continuing to stay curious and learn and grow and to be the best version of themselves.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I appreciate you sharing that.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: And Jason, we'll make sure that your link is in all the notes so that anybody who's looking to follow some of that research you're doing and some of that stuff you're putting out there, they'll be able to find it.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so those will be easily accessible through all the episode platforms.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: We'll make sure that's there.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: But brother, this has been fun.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I always look forward to talking with you and thank you for your support of Books for Guys.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And man, excited to spotlight your work and just keep doing it, man.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, I I appreciate it, Chris.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone who's listening right now, you can get out there and do this.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many ways.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you're thinking, like, well, I don't have the what it takes to start a business or be creative or do this thing.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: You do.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Timing is a kind of a pointy end of the stick.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: By doing something at just the right time, you concentrate all that force in a tiny little area, and you need far fewer resources than you think.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to show you how to do that because we need more creativity in the world and we need more young men stepping up to get their ideas out there and make positive change.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well said, Jason.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it, man.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Chris.