Latest / The People Run Podcast / #26: Rebuilt Into a 2:32 Marathoner | Max Sauers

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#26: Rebuilt Into a 2:32 Marathoner | Max Sauers · The People Run Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_02: I ran six marathons in six months and worked my way down to like 304 or something like that.
0:05
SPEAKER_02: And and for with that, uh obviously that's not sustainable and I didn't know it at the time, but it wasn't.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: And with that came, you know, plenty of injuries and and sorts of complications and whatever.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: So uh it took a ton of work to get from there even to, you know, probably three times the amount of work from there to get to the 232 where I where I I am now.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that the version of myself, I guess to answer your question before the 232 is uh hey everyone, welcome back to the People Run podcast.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Um today I have Max here with me.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Really looking forward to this episode, some insights that we're gonna talk about here.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: Great guy coming out of Chicago.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, with that further said, man, thanks for tuning in.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh Max, thanks for being on.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: Starting right away.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, my guy here has had a recent big PR of 232 marathon.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, most people see that and assume.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Man, he's really fast, been doing all the time.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: He's always in shape.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think from your history, from your story, from what you've shared, there's been some injuries and battle to get to that 232.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, what was the version of you before this look like, before the 232, and how does it feel to be like update 232 marathoner?
1:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for having me.
1:33
SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for reaching out seriously.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: It means a lot.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, it's been uh it's been a pretty crazy three years, maybe two and a half years, since I really started taking it seriously.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Um I ran in high school, um, and that was fine.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: I I wasn't really in love with it like I am now, and and I I I guess to give a full backstory, like I went to college, I I kind of I did the fraternity thing, and it wasn't really like a running conducive environment, I guess you could say.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: Um and and uh you know I tried to run here and there and I would get hurt and you know, I just wasn't taking the greatest care of myself.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: So how that uh kind of came to be is I signed up for Chicago uh 2023 and I was like, I'm really gonna commit to this, like I'm gonna actually do it, go through with it, run the marathon.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Like I just want to finish one, like it's gonna be amazing.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: And from there it was like, all right, I ran a 330.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh wow, well that was pretty that was pretty fun.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: And like I negative split the race by like 15 minutes.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: So I was like, oh man, I think there's more here, you know, maybe I could actually be good at it.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, and from there just ran I ran six marathons in six months and worked my way down to like 304 or something like that.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: And and with that, uh obviously that's not sustainable, and I didn't know it at the time, but it wasn't.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: And with that came, you know, plenty of injuries and and sorts of complications and whatever.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: So uh it took a ton of work to get from there even to, you know, probably three times the amount of work from there to get to the 232 where I where I am now.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that the version of myself, I guess to answer your question, before the 232 is um being hurt all the time, not being able to really put on a lot of volume.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: And how that changed is uh strength training, really, and and PT and um changing certain things about my um training, like progression doing certain different types of runs and within the training.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: And also I think one of the biggest things is just how I've changed my mindset, um, how I view myself as a runner, as a person in general, I think.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, and how I my relationship to running, my relationship to injuries, my relationship to strength training, and how I think about that, and um my relationship to racing too, and just how you approach that with your mindset is just so so important, is what I've realized.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: So um that's my that's my extended answer and kind of my intro to myself.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and it's uh it's it's been a cool journey.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: That's what I love, man, about your running your story from everything I've seen, man.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, most would see a 232 and think, you know, even I just learned something now a little bit about you, like, oh man, he's been running forever since like he was a little kid, you know, and now he's 232, but you know, it wasn't like that.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: Like Mendy, you ran Chicago, uh, one of my favorite races, and I think yours from what you mentioned.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: And you know, you worked up to that 232.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: Like, um, talk to me about going from that 330.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, 330 first off for a first marathon.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Wow, man, I'm kind of jealous here.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: But you know, you you stuck through it with injuries and got faster and faster.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, when did you start to feel like, man, I need to work on something towards these injuries if I'm gonna love and improve this sport, especially starting from where like you didn't really love it in college.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I yeah, first of all, I think that there is something to be said.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Like, I I just was naturally uh good at the marathon, I think.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: And like I always, you know, I ran in high school and I was not bad, like I was a varsity runner and all this.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think there was some natural talent, um, and that definitely helped me get the first 20% of the way there, I I think I did have that, and it was super, super great, and you know, it just um but I you know there's another 80%.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: I could I could have always just been a mediocre athlete, I guess, and you know, just kind of not put the work in that was necessary.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: Um so I guess to answer your question, how has it been?
6:08
SPEAKER_02: It's been amazing, it's been kind of surreal, I guess.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, like I try to it, you can get um bogged down in like the day-to-day, and you're like, oh man, like I'm not hitting 550s how I like want to on a tempo run or whatever.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: And I and then I come home and I'm like, two years ago I couldn't run that for a 5k.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, this is amazing.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: Like it's just I try to remind myself every day how how lucky I am to be able to have gotten this far.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I I guess the journey, uh I kind of touched on it a little bit, just like racing a ton, and and that did help.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: I think I I got familiar with the distance and everything.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, but after getting down a 304 and running a marathon every month, I I met my coach, and that's kind of where everything changed.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, it became like you should only run two race two marathons a year, you shouldn't be racing one every month.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Um and she so I I met her uh and she's a PT.
7:16
SPEAKER_02: She was she was my physical therapist, and I was actually her first client ever out of out of PT school.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: And it was kind of just like a really good match.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: And from there, we we worked on PT and I was able to run my first marathon after that, like pain-free, and I was just in a lot of pain for many months, um, just training through it.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh and from there I was like, oh well, maybe you should just be my coach.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: And so that was a year and a half now, and and we've been working together ever since.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: And that was, you know, I've gone from a 304 to 232 with her, and I think the proof is in the progress as far as like changing my training.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: Again, it's I mean, I've gone from peaking at 40 miles to 70 miles, which is obviously a huge part of it, but it's just such a lifting-centric training plan that I'm on.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and that's really what's made the the difference for me, just targeting uh understanding my weaknesses, like what's giving out first over 26 miles, and targeting those specifically, it's just been such a huge um improvement for me.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: Touching on that, what what would you say were some of those weaknesses?
8:34
SPEAKER_01: I know you're a big proponent of strength training, like what do you like to work on, or or helps you?
8:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, obviously everyone's different, and you know, for me it tends to be like my ankles for some goddamn reason.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: But everyone's different.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what what what kind of injuries did you have and work on that you know made you a lot stronger runner?
8:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh like you said, everyone's different.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: So this is really uh really just for for me, but it can be it can really be anything, and I think this really applies, this kind of uh process philosophy applies to any part of your body that you're struggling with.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: Uh for instance, when I was getting hurt uh when I met my PT, I had the worst shin splints ever.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Just my right shin, it was uh just absolutely brutal, every single run, just like in a knot.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh particularly when I was doing long runs and stuff like that.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm certain if I had continued training like that and made no changes, that I would have gotten a stress fracture at some point.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: Um Luckily, I luckily I didn't.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: And what made the difference there uh was actually my my glutes and hips were not strong enough.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: So what we did was like a gait analysis, um, and that's a big part of like my my team that I'm on.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: We we do a lot of 3D gate analysis and stuff like that.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: And what we realized is like this is my if this is my left leg and this is your right leg, and like they're supposed to be straight, like this is your hips right here.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: Um this and my right shin down here was um causing issues.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: My um hip on this side was not strong enough to hold uh my other hip up.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: So it was it was like this is my hips and it's like that.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: So if if it if this hip is lower, I have to tilt my uh leg in down like that.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: That's my diagramming.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: Uh I have to tilt my leg and down like that.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: That's putting so much pressure on my shin.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, so what we did was strengthen my glutes and hips a ton, just I mean, so many different PT exercises, uh, and that's really how I solved shin splints.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I it's not just a one-all uh catch-all solution, but whenever I do hear someone having that problem, I'm like, it's not what you think.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: Like it's not you're not targeting the specific area that hurts, it's the muscles that support that area.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: And you in particular your glutes and hips, like they support everything.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: Like anytime I hear someone who gets injury, like knees, shins, doesn't matter.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it's probably your hips and your glutes are not strong enough.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that was one thing.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh and that's kind of like on the injury prevention side.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: On the flip side, now I think when I I've gotten past like getting injured, uh, it's just been a long time since I've it's stopped me from training.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: So when you are kind of past that, um it's more of a uh efficiency issue, like how can I become the most efficient runner possible?
11:44
SPEAKER_02: And also how can I withstand sub-six miles for 26 miles?
11:48
SPEAKER_02: And that was a a huge problem that I was struggling with.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: Before this last race, it had been almost almost two years since I had gone without gone through a marathon without cramping in my especially my hamstrings and and my calves sometimes too, but my hamstrings were just not strong enough to withstand 26 miles.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: 2.2 at that pace, yeah.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: And uh so after Chicago in October, uh it just wasn't really like I mean I PR'd and it was a good day.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: Um I ran a 237 and I just knew that I could have done better.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Like I I probably lost a couple I cramped from 21 on, and it was just like my hamstrings went so early, and I could feel my hamstrings were not strong enough, like mile 10 on, and I'm like, and it this happened in training runs too, and and I just kind of was like, all right, whatever, like I'm just gonna go.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: And it something just didn't feel right.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: So what I did after that was I got together with my coach and we're like, how do we how do we solve this hamstring cramps?
12:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't think it's a nutrition thing, like my true nutrition was on point.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: I I have such a great plan there, and and I'm taking so much sodium like I can't take any more sodium, like it's just not possible.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: There's only so much element that you can put into your body before it becomes a problem.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: It can be, yeah.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
13:14
SPEAKER_02: And uh so I I did all sorts of uh hamstring exercises every single time that I lifted.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so I probably got 24 lifts in between Chicago and Buckeye last weekend.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: I was hitting hamstrings every single time.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Like one one lift would be quad focused, one lift would be completely hamstring focused, but even in the quad one, I'm doing my my hamstring exercises, uh a lot of eccentric movements, so like Nordic curls where you're kind of uh extending your legs while also working your hamstrings as opposed to concentric movements where that would be like a hamstring curl on a machine, which is also great.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh so mixing in concentric and eccentric hamstring movements was kind of the key, I think.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: And so uh I yeah, long answer.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh this is uh this is uh kind of the how I how I envisioned it being fixed, and so you know, you do 12 weeks of it, and I started to feel better on long runs and stuff like that.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: But I was I you know you don't really know what's gonna happen until you race.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm just like, yeah, I hope this works.
14:20
SPEAKER_02: Like I feel better.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: I don't really know if it's gonna help me.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: And so last Saturday I just I went for it and I didn't didn't even have a single like a lick of uh of cramping or even like honestly, even my hamstrings getting tired.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Like it was my calves that were tired, really.
14:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh and like my my the lower part of my legs.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: And so I was just so pumped.
14:43
SPEAKER_02: I was so happy to it had been so long since I finished a marathon with a strong 10k.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: Like I think that had been my slower part of the race in my last like three marathons or so.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: So it just feels good.
14:57
SPEAKER_02: It's just way more fun, too.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: Like you get to enjoy yourself, and like the last like 5k I'm like, I'm doing it, like I'm actually doing this.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: Like this feels so good.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: My hamstrings feel amazing, like I don't feel terrible.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, it starts to feel terrible, especially at a race like Chicago where it's so fun and like there's so many great fans, and like you're just suffering, like because you're drive high and you're just hurting, yeah.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, uh that's kind of how I uh I guess became a stronger, stronger runner um in general.
15:31
SPEAKER_02: Um I'd I just give a lot of credit to my coach for sure.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, before I go further, first off, congrats, man.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh Chile with that.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Congrats on the big PR and having probably more importantly, you would probably agree to this.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: A good race where you felt great and amazing.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Those are always amaz uh, you know, great feeling to have.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: I can see the joy, man, as you're explaining this.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so to go back on something, I love that you touched on this, man, because uh I I feel like it's a big thing in the running, and now studies are coming on on like, you know, we do need to take electrolytes and and sodium.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: But to your point, man, there's only so much 1,000 milligram elements I can take to like hey, it's gonna go the other way.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: Um you gotta work on the muscle, man.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: I think you touched on it very eloquently there.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: Like, you gotta muscle fatigue is what's gonna lead to cramps.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Now, if your sodium's obviously not on point, then you gotta fix that too.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: But like, um, you know, that's another I think being a misconception with lifting.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, you see a very fast runner in the low twos, you know, mid twos, and it's like, oh, do they really lift?
16:31
SPEAKER_01: And and you're sharing that you lift.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: I do want to ask you, like, do you lift very heavy, or is it more like on the muscle?
16:37
SPEAKER_01: I know you mentioned eccentric, concentric.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, is it heavy lift, or are you like, let me uh go for time and like work on the muscle and feel the muscle, if that sounds right.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: It's it's definitely both.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh we have the plan where there's base exercises that are meant to be heavier.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: So I got it.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: I'm a quad focused days.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: I have a um back squat where I, you know, I mean, I'm a rudder, so I I consider 200 pounds on a back squat heavy for me.
17:08
SPEAKER_02: Um that's my that's my heavy lift.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: And um I have some other uh like I do Bulgarian split squats uh that are you know a hundred maybe like 120 pounds or 100 pounds.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: Um a few other exercises.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: So I have I have my heavy exercises and I do those first so that I'm since I'm not fatigued, I'm I'm trying to hit it as hard as possible.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: And then and same same on the hamstring focus days, like I do barbell deadlift as heavy as I can, you know, 200 pounds or so.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: And then I I have uh trying to think what else would be heavy.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: Oh oh uh just like hamstring curl machine, that concentric movement.
17:50
SPEAKER_02: I try and I put on as much weight as I can handle, essentially.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: But then I also have a whole list of like 20 PT exercises that my coach is giving me.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I I don't think it would work for a lot of people what she gives me, but I we've I've just been working with her long enough that I'm like, all right, I'm gonna pick out which ones I like the best.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: You guys know yeah, do what I think works best.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: Um so though and those are all like pretty much either body weight or banded um lifts and not heavy.
18:22
SPEAKER_02: You're kind of going for form and and reps uh as opposed to weight, especi especially like those hamstrings are exercises that I was um working on.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: The Nordic curls, uh body weight, doing uh like putting my foot in like a TRX band and just like doing hamstring curls in the air, body weight.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: Um uh single leg RDLs, that's that's weighted.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, but those are those are all another example, like just it's a mix, I guess.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course, yeah.
18:55
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: For those listening, you heard there first, you gotta lift heavy and also lift all kinds of ways to get those big PRs.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Max, you went from 1700 miles also all the way to 2500 last year.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, we're touching on a lot of strength, but how did you make such a big jump and feel like, you know what, my body can find officially handle that big of a jump, you know, obviously through the strength training, but there's also recovery coming into play, of course, I'm sure.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, you mentioned 40, 70 mile peak now, getting in the lift session.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: How did you put that all together and feel like, you know what, this is the year I can handle it, which obviously led to great success.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think the biggest difference, and it kind of it can it seems like uh kind of simple.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know, it's just kind of like okay, sure.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh is I was running four days a week and now I'm running six days a week.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: It's really like the biggest difference, honestly.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh and four days a week at the time felt like a lot.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: It was like, yeah, I I uh I'm running as much as I can handle.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: Um and so I didn't just make the change.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: I didn't just be like, oh, now I'm gonna run two more days.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: Like I did four days a week for my build up to my spring 2025 marathon.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: Um and I peaked at 50 miles.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh which if you let's I'm gonna do the math throughout here, it's like that's 12 and a half miles per day, I think.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh on average is actually it's quite a bit.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: Uh probably about average.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: Uh and then the next block, I'm like, okay, let's try and add one more.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: Like, and if and if you think about adding one more day, all I'm doing is like, I'm gonna run four miles on this day, like this new day, like three, four miles, like keep it as easy as possible.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: And that to me made it seem possible to add another day.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: Once I add that day, I'm like, oh, okay, like this isn't that bad.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: Like, I can handle it.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: I still got two rest days, like, um, and like that shorter, like easy day is kind of a rest day in itself, anyways.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: Correct, yeah.
21:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh for Chicago 2025 this fall, I peaked at I think 60.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: So five days, 60 miles, 12 miles a day.
21:15
SPEAKER_04: So the average goes down a little bit.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh and then I get and I guess you're kind of keeping the the same average, uh, and it goes down just a tad.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: And then for this next build, I add, okay, I'm like, I added one more day.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: And and again, I did the same thing.
21:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, it's just it's gonna be a four mile day, it's gonna be a three mile day.
21:36
SPEAKER_02: And then once you add it in, you're like, oh, okay, like I can handle this.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of I kind of consider those like two days um that I'm just running easy miles, not doing anything else, taking it easy as possible.
21:48
SPEAKER_02: Like those in in effect to me, like in my mind, are our rest days.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's kind of I guess my biggest my biggest change that I made and I guess it sounds simple, but you know, it can be it can be a hard like mental block, I think, for a lot of people, including myself.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: Like you kind of have to you have to uh wade in to the waters uh slowly, uh, you know, in in that.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: And then you put your head down for long enough and you look up and you're like, dang, I'm running 70 miles a week for this last build at six days a week.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: That's uh like 11, I think, maybe 11 and a half.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: So the average goes down.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: And like uh, I guess to that point is you can um spread out the miles so much more easily.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: Um running 70 miles a week at six days a week is so much easier than running 70 miles a week at five days a week.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: It's so it's like and like and it feels like especially like even if I when I was running five, fifty miles a week, like I felt like I was packing such a huge percentage of my miles into a small amount of days.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: And when you spread it out more, even though I'm running more total, it feels like less because it's a smaller percentage of your weekly mileage, if that makes sense.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: No, of course, yeah.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: I I'm sure many of us listening to this right now can relate, myself included.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Like I've done the four days, the five days, the six days.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: Never been quite done the seven days because I need a rest day, but some people can.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know that I could do that.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: But I was I guess I got this just to touch on this.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: I was talking to I was at the um BPN uh 50 mile Ultra.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: I one of my friends ran that.
23:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh, the last man standing.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you saw all that with those two guys that went like almost 300 miles, like battle.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: I was there.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: My my friend was running it, and I talked to the BPN coach, Jeff Cunningham, and I asked him, like I was after my spring build.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, hey, I just ran uh this time on four days a week.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: What do you think is the best thing I can do?
23:54
SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Well, you need to run six days a week.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Uh that's the best like you're in my mind.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: I was like, wow, like four days, like I'm doing well, like, and I get my recovery on those other three days.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: And he told me, he's like, Well, if when you're resting, you're not improving.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: And especially if you can change those two days to be even um maintain maintenance days where you're not where you're not declining in fitness, you're just staying the same.
24:19
SPEAKER_02: That makes such a huge difference uh overall.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: Like if you do that week on week, like you're taking less rest days.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: Like it is better, like if if you can handle it, you know.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, and to me, I was like, I need my rest days, but I think once you get to that point that you're running six days a week, uh it it feels better.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and you're like, oh yeah, I am I am improving more quickly.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: No, for sure.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, without nerding out too much, the the mitochondria you build more, obviously, the more days you run, even if it's like a very, I would say a very smart way you implemented that four miles, you know, on a day, it may not feel like much, but like you know, you're building cells and mitochondria for the running and whatnot versus a full rest day where your body's like, all right, I get to relax.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: And it's not that hard on the body, you know.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: Um it it's kind of crazy to me, but like also like welcoming.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: I would say that you were able to also have great success on four days, you know.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Granted, um correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you have some speed and long runs in those four days, or even when you do six now, correct?
25:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
25:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh one day of speed in the middle of the week.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess it's different now.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh are you asking about four days or six days?
25:29
SPEAKER_01: On the four days, and I I guess six days, you know, you obviously spread it out very well.
25:33
SPEAKER_02: Four days I would have done I do a Wednesday workout every week.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: Uh try and do it with others uh out in Chicago, and that's always fun.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: And then Saturday, yeah.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Saturday long run.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: Um generally would always do some sort of marathon pace uh miles in there.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: Um it all it looks a lot different now, I think, uh than it did with four days.
25:55
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it was two of those, two of those days.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: Again, like to my I guess to my point, like two of those days you were working really hard.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: So it's like 50% of your runs, you're like, oh gosh, I gotta like, I gotta really prepare for this.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: And it's like kind of uh it just feels like you're hacking such a high percentage of your miles to be high intensity as well.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: And so it just is so much easier to spread it out.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: What was the uh well, two things I want to ask you as you ramped with the mileage?
26:26
SPEAKER_01: What was the mental shift like?
26:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, obviously it we all know running more is gonna help, but implementing it, as you said, you know, it sounds simple, but implementing it is a whole different story.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm sure you're like, man, do I gotta worry about fatigue?
26:38
SPEAKER_01: I gotta go to work.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, I need more laundry, uh, I I need a lot more food.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, I got life.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, my uh laundry, yeah, it is uh it's a it's a problem for sure.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: I had to buy more I had to buy more long tights because I only had two pairs and over the winter I'm wearing them laundry four times a week.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: Like I don't know what I'm so uh yeah that that that part was uh a change for sure.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: But um yeah, I I uh I it was daunting for sure.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: I I think that the biggest part was just like can I handle it?
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Um I I did have I had the time.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: I I think and I just cared I care about it enough that I'm gonna wake up early enough to go do this, regardless of what I have going on that day.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: Um I I try and run in the morning mostly, uh except maybe like Wednesdays I have my I have a run club in the evening, so that would be the only day really.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: Um but I I didn't have a problem spending more time running.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: I think if I could spend even more time running, I would, you know.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Um it was the mental barrier of like just adding I it was just the mental barrier of adding more mileage, I think.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: Running miles.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: I I think that was I I just I just care.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: I I really do care about it a lot and like it's it's my main focus outside of you know work and you know uh my relationships.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: So um not I relationship with friends and also my girlfriend, I don't have multiple relationships.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: What what uh obviously it sounds like you're just naturally very driven, you know, which is great, right?
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh I can personally myself relate to that.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: It's not always the case, so hey, it's a good problem.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Um in your opinion, for you, where does it come from?
28:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, obviously you had a great success over the two, three years, you're continuing that success, and you obviously like look, I'm willing to put in the work and I'm gonna wake up early.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, for those listening, I know we kind of hinted at he said it, he's from Chicago.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: There's a certain kind of drive that it takes to wake up at four or five or whenever you get in in the morning and it's like windy city cold.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh where's that come from?
28:50
SPEAKER_01: You it's a good question.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh I I want to give credit to my parents, probably.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh most first and foremost.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think they just set a they set a really good standard for me.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Um just in my childhood in general.
29:08
SPEAKER_02: It didn't have to be athletics.
29:10
SPEAKER_02: I think it's really with anything, with work, with um how you give your time to others.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: I try and put the most amount of effort I can into anything I do, whether whether it is running, I I think it just applies uh to really everything with my work with um with my friends, uh, with my girlfriend, like I just I'm gonna always, if I care, and usually I do, I'm gonna put my full effort into that person, into that hobby, into that job.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's just my my dad always used to say, if you're not gonna uh if you're gonna uh do something, don't half ass it.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Just do do it to the best of your ability.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Um shout out to my dad.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for that.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: Shout out to my own dad.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: So he he always used to say that and it kind of applied to me like shoveling the driveway or or something like that, but like it applies to to everything, and that's something that I I try to remind myself.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: Um so I guess in particular with running, it's just like why would I why would I not give it my full effort?
30:23
SPEAKER_02: There's no reason not to, like, and if I care, and I I I really do, of course.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm gonna wake up at 5 30 if I need to.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna wake up and get the miles in regardless.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: No, I love that, man, and and resonate wholeheartedly.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure a lot of the runners listening do too, man.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're gonna do it and put the miles out there and be cold and and running miles, some days are fun, some days are hard, like, but you still get it in, like, you might as well go all in, you know.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, a lot of days I don't want to be there, but I'm gonna do it anyways, just because I I I I do it for the the feeling that I had when I crossed that finish line in Phoenix, like when I pump my fists and I'm like, I just did that.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: Like it was all worth it.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, the the m early mornings and not wanting to finish runs, but I do it anyways.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: Your fueling.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: Um obviously you run a lot of mileage, you've increased mileage throughout the years.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure food intake has gone up, and I think a lot of people um or better way to put this is oftentimes when you you know increase energy and demand, you need more fueling, right?
31:36
SPEAKER_01: Obviously it's a it's a given.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: But we can tend to binge or go left, right, and just fill those calories with just anything.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: Like how have you been able to I'm sure you've had to increase your fueling a lot, right?
31:47
SPEAKER_01: But uh also keep uh the fueling feeling good, you're not under-eating, eating right and what kind of good foods, how have you kept that balance and and kept your fueling in approach as you've gotten from 40, 70 miles from 330 to 230, etc.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: in the future?
32:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's something that I didn't get to touch on on how I increase mileage.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh that is 100% uh one of the reasons I was able to increase.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: Um I had I went to a dietitian, uh a nutritionist, um, and I worked with her for like three months just like day-to-day nutrition.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: Like, how am I gonna hit these certain macros for carbs, protein, fats, and then kind of talk about like fiber and um some other micronutrients, um, what supplements I should be taking and and stuff like that.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: Um but I always I think I I mean I'm just I'm a skinny, skinny guy.
32:49
SPEAKER_02: I always had a tendency to not eat.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: I just had never ate like a ton, like my we'd all even even now it still happens, like we go to we go to lunch and I don't finish my meal, I get my leftovers.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm very used to getting uh asking for a box at the end of a at the end of a meal.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: Um and I I think changing the way I think about food was a big um big shift for me.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: Um as opposed to uh as opposed to like sitting down and being like putting pressure on myself to like finish a meal and be like, oh I gotta eat this.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: Like I did that for quite a bit because in college I would I would lift and I'd be like, I want to try and gain weight, and like I would do that, and then my stomach and my body would just like shut down and be like, I'm not hungry anymore.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: Like when I start to put pressure on myself like that, like that's when it doesn't go well.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: So I I tend to just think of food as like, hey, I'm just I'm just fueling for my next run.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm an engine, I gotta feed it.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: That's that's really what it is.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, so how I I guess I worked with my nutritionist for uh three months, talked about you know the day-to-day stuff.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: I also talked about a lot with fueling for runs before, during, and after, and especially like race, you know, race days and like the three days before races.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I feel like I have a pretty good um schedule as far as my food intake day-to-day.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: I I kind of eat the same thing for breakfast every morning.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: I've got like my uh I have a bagel and and cream cheese, and I have uh apple juice, and I've got uh um yogurt and chia seeds to get some fiber in.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: Um I have this this mass gainer protein um powder and I I mix it in with oat milk, banana, peanut butter, honey, and that's like a thousand calories.
34:40
SPEAKER_02: And uh drinking calories has been it has been super helpful for me.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: Just sometimes I I'm not able to eat uh you know um solid food like the whole day.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: And so that helps me a lot.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: Um and I'm just kind of I kind of got into a rhythm with that um early last year where I was just eating eating 4,000 calories a day to to be able to keep going.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: And um once I was able to do that and my stomach got used to it, um, I think that I just was in such a better place to be able to run 70 miles a week instead of 40.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I and I guess I try and try to keep it healthy.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: I try and cook for myself.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: I meal prep like twice a week, and I'll just cook enough food for like three or four days.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it doesn't happen.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I'm on a weekend where I like I don't have any food in my fridge.
35:31
SPEAKER_02: I'm a I'm a uh I'm I'm a 25-year-old guy living alone.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: Like it just happens, and I gotta go out and eat Chick-fil-A sometimes.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Um it happens, I get caught, and uh I try and balance it the best I can, but I'm not gonna again put so much pressure on myself to like perfect.
35:50
SPEAKER_02: Like I don't.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know that's the reality, particularly like the week after race, like I'm eating all sorts of all the fun stuff.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: But I try I try and keep it you know healthy.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: I have a pretty good um regimen.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: I've that's something that I've definitely worked on a good amount.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: What does uh like a full meal feel like to you now nowadays?
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Now that you've worked with a nutritionist and then you've got it dialed in.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, you mentioned sometimes you don't eat all your food and stuff, and now you eat 4,000 calories.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: What what's like full feel for you now?
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean my favorite meals are ones that I cook myself.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: I I I do tend to when I go out, I don't know, sometimes may it's maybe I'm just talking to people or whatever.
36:38
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I don't finish.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: It's they're you know, I do have a lot of good food and a lot of times I do finish uh my meals, but I for whatever reason just love food that is cooked by myself.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: Like I think I just appreciate it more when you're like, oh man, I just made this.
36:54
SPEAKER_02: Like this is an actually like tastes good.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, like uh so I I I tend to eat really well when I cook for myself and like a ton of carbs, ton of protein, and try and mix in as much vegetables as I can.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, even though I'm like my huge vegetable person, but like I I do it anyway.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: My mom tells me vegetables, so I do it.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: Um like I guess for instance, last night I made um I think they're called boota bowls, and it's like a Mediterranean.
37:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh I just made a bunch of rice and chicken paprika, and I made some roasted cauliflower and uh cell beans and uh cucumber and threw it all in a bowl.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this is great.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I'm gonna feel good come Monday when I gotta start running again, you know?
37:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: That sounds fire.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh I might have to try that later today.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Do you have me at the the bowl?
37:49
SPEAKER_01: Um do you ever have this fear?
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Because I know some people do, and it's like a big thing.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like no, but uh um you ever have fear of gaining too much weight or like, hey, what's the right weight balance for like my marathon?
38:00
SPEAKER_01: And like, how do you deal with that?
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: Um I I mean I don't want to sound unrelatable, I guess, but I've always used skinny.
38:14
SPEAKER_02: I think maybe I guess maybe a lot of runners can relate to it.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, I've just always been always been skinny.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: I I've never even if I've like I mentioned like I tried to gain weight for probably two two years or three years, and like I you know, I maybe managed to gain 10 pounds over the 15 pounds over the course of that.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: And you know, right when I stopped focusing on that, I just lost lost all of it pretty much.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: I I I don't I I genuinely don't worry about gaining weight too much just because I run so much.
38:53
SPEAKER_02: I think maybe if I wasn't running, then I'd be like, oh yeah, I should probably, you know, not eat this meal or eat so much.
39:01
SPEAKER_02: But I uh I think that I'm like like I said, I'm like an engine and the engine is just gonna keep running as long as I keep doing this, and it's just a big it's kind of like the uh the giant fire disposal from Toy Story 2 when it just kind of all like funnels in and burns up in a giant pile and that's it really is so uh no I I don't I I I don't I I sometimes I'm like oh man am I like too skinny?
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Um so I I try and monitor that.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: If I was if I got to the point where I uh was not weighing enough, then I would probably try and reframe how I think about food or what I'm doing about food.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: But I I'm at a comfortable weight.
39:48
SPEAKER_02: Um I I have I guess to put it all in a a bow, I've been right around 150 pounds for the last 10 years.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: And I have not I haven't moved more than 10 pounds.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: No 148, no one fifty three.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: That's just the way it goes, but I I am thankfully just a lot more like comfortable with my relationship with food.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: I just feel like better about eating in general.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: Um whereas there were times where I was like putting putting more pressure on myself to eat um when when I didn't have to do that.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: No, man, like everything you said, you know, when you're doing the right things, which you are, and you know, you shared a lot of it on here already, like it's kind of gonna be a consistent, steady thing, which is what we all strive for at the end of the day, right?
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, and you you have your fun, obviously, after the races.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, for me that's ice cream, but hey.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: Um so how about races?
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Like last year, something like seven, nine PRs all in one year, like and obviously you're running a lot of miles all year.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: How do you keep that that fitness for all types of races?
40:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, from a 5k, 10k.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh I think I even saw a relay you ran, and then obviously you send big PR marathons.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you keep that that fitness within your mileage and that turnover and speed to go on a dime, if you will, anytime on any distance?
41:12
SPEAKER_02: I think that you just kind of have to have a bit of uh range in your training and variability.
41:20
SPEAKER_02: Um and you can I a lot of people talk about like uh I can't remember the the word.
41:29
SPEAKER_02: It's like having different periods of training um throughout the year.
41:33
SPEAKER_02: Periodization.
41:33
SPEAKER_02: Umization, thank you.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
41:36
SPEAKER_02: And um I spend I mean I right now I'm spending you know most of my time on the marathon and like running progression runs and doing marathon tempos on Wednesdays as opposed to um anything faster than that.
41:50
SPEAKER_02: Um but there are times like over the summer, particularly, where I'm running a lot of 5K's and 10Ks, and um there are like one mile, there's a big one mile race in Chicago.
42:01
SPEAKER_02: And there's just these there's these big races in Chicago um that all me and all my friends do, and it's so fun to compete with them and like be a part of that community and just grown ever since I've started running.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, just the amount of people that I've been able to meet and connect with and and race against, it's just so fun.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that period is kind of like I'm working out 5K stuff, doing doing 5K pace quarters on on Wednesday, and then I'm still doing my long run just because we know that's the the main focus.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, um from what I've found, uh I think generally, like for me at least it all applies to everything.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: Like if I'm improving in the marathon, I'm improving in the 5K generally.
42:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think it I just think it all applies.
42:49
SPEAKER_02: Like the more mileage you're getting, you're just gonna get better at every distance.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: I know I know that some people specialize in certain things and some people specialize in the marathon, but if you're not a pro, like if you're not Cole Hawker running the 5K, like I think that you're gonna probably be improving at everything.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, like uh as long as you're like kind of having the range that I that I mentioned where you're doing certain you're doing 5k workouts, you're doing workouts at 10k pace, you're doing workouts at half marathon pace, like kind of all spread throughout your block, and maybe you have the periodization where you're focusing on a certain event more.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh that's that's kind of how I I have been able to improve, I think, at every distance.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: Um like I just I go to my club, I have my coach run do workouts for me too, and like there are all sorts of people at uh at these clubs there that are specializing in the five K.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: They only do five K's and so we do a lot of different stuff.
43:49
SPEAKER_02: And um I do like to I like to mix it up for sure.
43:52
SPEAKER_02: It's it's very fun, but you know, I I try to do the mostly mostly marathon stuff just because I know that's uh kind the the mangol here.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: What do uh people not see on Instagram you know that actually makes this all possible for you?
44:10
SPEAKER_04: Um that's a good question.
44:16
SPEAKER_04: There's a few things that come to mind.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: I think one of them would be it I touch on it sometimes on social media, but just like the community and the a community of runners, but also you know my personal support system is just so uh supportive, I guess for lack of a better term, like they're just so uh so encouraging and and they everyone in my life is like just very um helpful in in how they uh I don't know how they how they help me do what I do and like um whether whether it's just like helping me take my mind off of running in on certain days or uh um showing up for me um on like biking next to me on a long run.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: And then on in the same vein like the the community of runners out here in Chicago is I mean I could never have imagined um meeting all these people that I've that I've become friends with and like um starting my own team uh this last couple months like meeting all those people and like my coach and and everything and like it's it's been so incredible.
45:40
SPEAKER_02: Like they're just so awesome and like that's really one of the things that puts fuel to my fire is seeing other people on the Chicago Lakefront trail uh every time you're out there like they're out there working you're out there working like you give each other a wave and you're like yeah like we're doing this uh it's and it's cool and and particularly um when I run together in groups like I my buddy just made this this is my uh this is a run club not my run team but we meet we meet uh on Tuesdays and it started with like the three of us uh in March of last year and like we have like you know 25 guys that come and come and go every week and even throughout the winter like we're showing up every Tuesday which is just it shows like that it's just a community of really committed people um who just love to run and uh that's probably one thing that I don't I don't show a ton.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: Another would be uh I think a lot of the mindset stuff I don't post a ton about that.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: I would like to I think it's just kind of like I don't know how to um put it into a visual format a lot of the time but yeah I think the mindset stuff is so important um for racing and um pushing yourself to be the best you can like uh I do a lot of like meditation and and stuff like that where uh I think that has been a massive um benefit to me over the last couple years and like I think that helped me overcome a lot of my injury woes it it helped me it can help you increase your mileage like it just changing the way that you think about it and approach it and and visualizing races and like um imag like for instance imagining me crossing the finish line at Buckeye and going like this and being like yeah I just ran it too like I did that for two months straight.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: You know I I sit down before bed and I just think about how that would feel and being like I I am feeling this feeling right now.
47:44
SPEAKER_02: This is how it would feel it feels amazing.
47:46
SPEAKER_02: And then the more you do that you know I I think the the closer you you push yourself towards that outcome and that's exactly what happened and it did feel pretty dang good.
47:56
SPEAKER_02: So yeah um yeah I think that's another thing that I don't show a ton but it's actually a huge facet of my training.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: No that's awesome man um love the meditation stuff too I'm a big fan and do it myself um you know it comes up once you do it consistently it comes up in the smallest things I'm sure you can relate to this you'll just be having the moment I'm tired and like for some reason because you do it often you're like oh wait a minute is my face agitated right now am I breathing right and it's like oh okay woo I just relaxed right take a mindful a moment a moment to be mindful and kind of talk about think about yourself and what you're doing you know I love the finish line reminding me of shador's a little bit uh but uh it's always amazing when you're visualizing it for for weeks on weeks on long runs however brutal they may be and then you you the day comes and it's like bam let's go so yeah like I visualizing my hamstrings not cramping up actually work.
48:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean maybe it's actually what I'm doing in practice but if I mentally am like expecting my hamstrings to cramp which I think a lot of the times I was in these previous races then it it's more likely to happen it can tense up yeah yeah so I was going into this race being like it's not gonna happen.
49:13
SPEAKER_02: It's just not like I refuse and it didn't so you know you could say what you want maybe it's a placebo and if it's a placebo I'll take it I'll take whatever whatever works hey so you started you touched on it um your uh rebuild athletic club you know what have you learned through that and uh share a little bit for whoever's listening how's that going and what you guys do yeah so it's a team embodiment of how I train I think it's because I you know I work with my coach very closely and it's it's kind of the embodiment of how she and I worked together for um the past couple years um it's a lifting focused team um it's a it's a marathon team um but we I I think the thing that makes us special is how much we focus on lifting how much we focus on gait uh efficiency um and that's one of the the main uh I guess focuses of of our team and so we've got uh I think seven runners now and uh we are just growing I mean we started in November and and uh she and I were like hey like why don't why don't we do this like and so she she started her coaching company and she was like let's do a running team like do you want to be the the captain and I was like yeah of course like this is this will be fun um I'm kind of a I've always just been someone who has a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit uh it's part I'm a software engineer so I've done you know some stuff with that and and I haven't really done that in a while uh like I just work my job and yeah and I gave it a good opportunity to kind of start something new um and be a part of something from the ground up which is something I really do love.
50:57
SPEAKER_02: So it's been really fun.
50:59
SPEAKER_02: I I as you could tell I'm a I'm a very social person but like I said I'm a software engineer.
51:05
SPEAKER_02: I work remote and I'm like I don't talk to a lot of people yeah it's a very very good outlet for me to um talk to people and like recruit people and like I meet with runners that are potentially interested.
51:18
SPEAKER_02: It's been a really fun process uh building this team and it's been you know cold out so it's not like a it's not a very active time for the Chicago running community but I do think once it starts to warm up and like over the summer like it's gonna really kick off and I think it'll be it'll be very fun.
51:35
SPEAKER_02: Like we're starting our first practice in two weeks.
51:38
SPEAKER_02: We've got me and uh I think two or three others who are going to run Boston here so we're gonna do uh some fun stuff for that.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: Hey that's gonna be fun very fun.
51:50
SPEAKER_02: Gotta drive out to the to the burbs in Chicago though there are no no hills here in Chicago unless you want to hop on a treadhill treadmill you know I've heard yeah even when I was out there everything was very flat um you know which we love but when you gotta train for Boston you need them hills.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: If you had a a marathon or listening to this or someone comes up to you you know obviously in in a rebuild and they want to safely transition from say like a 330 marathon what's the first thing you would like try to fix?
52:22
SPEAKER_02: Well if I was their coach um I would evaluate their gate first I think I would I would uh we have a 3D gate analysis machine so I guess maybe let's say I have access to that I would use that and and see where their inefficiencies are maybe certain things that could cause injury if they're trying to increase their volume um and that's one thing that I would work on and then I mean I'm not a PT but I would give them exercises yeah you have the yeah I'm trying to think about this hypothetically uh like I would I would give them uh exercises for their inefficiencies um things that would prevent injury but also increase efficiency performance um and then from there once you kind of a I mean working on that while creating anaerobic base I think is super important and then once you're at a solid point where you can run a decent amount of miles and you're not getting hurt feel strong um I guess if they're if they're a marathon I mean one thing that I found and uh again and maybe it's self-explanatory but like the more miles you can run at marathon pace it's the faster you're gonna get at marathon pace.
53:42
SPEAKER_02: Like that was my one of my bigger changes that I made recently um and maybe not exactly at marathon pace but um at at an aerobic level like changing my long runs from like doing some like two by maybe like four by two miles at marathon pace over the course of a long run.
54:01
SPEAKER_02: Like you're getting eight miles in um but you're taking breaks in between and it's kind of like um hard to get a maybe harder to get a rhythm and so what that changed to be is like maybe you're doing more of a progression run um where you're getting 16 miles in from marathon pace plus 30 seconds down to marathon pace and you're getting so much more quality volume in um by doing something along those lines.
54:29
SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of different ways to do it for sure.
54:32
SPEAKER_02: But that's a really quick great way to get in um more quality miles I think um and you can do you can you know pair that with a faster workout on on Wednesday or Tuesday like you know 5K 10k work which also applies.
54:48
SPEAKER_02: So I would I would say those are some of the bigger things that I would that I've learned especially recently with getting uh aerobic longer efforts in is it's been a huge it's in it's been awesome um for my business.
55:05
SPEAKER_02: What what's a piece of advice you would uh hesitate to give others that works for you no go for it go for it that's the plan well something that's always not always but something that has worked really well for me um has been just stacking like marathon blocks like kind of back to back.
55:51
SPEAKER_02: That's been something that has actually worked really well for me for whatever reason.
55:56
SPEAKER_02: Like particularly this last one I did Chicago and we're just gonna do Boston and that was in like you know six months.
56:04
SPEAKER_02: But my coach and I got together and we were like well that wasn't exactly the race that we wanted like what if we just what if we did a a race in January um and in preparation for Boston let's start building now like let's just do it.
56:19
SPEAKER_02: And I was able to you know within three weeks of Chicago be back up to like 60 miles or so and I ended up running you know the best block in my life by far.
56:30
SPEAKER_02: So I guess for whatever reason stacking these marathon blocks back to back has been really quite helpful for me.
56:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
56:40
SPEAKER_02: And I I there's only so many times you can do that in a row.
56:43
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm doing it again for Boston.
56:45
SPEAKER_02: Hopefully like the build goes smoothly again to get up to peak mileage here and over the next like three or four weeks but I don't know that I want to I'm not gonna do that again after Boston.
56:57
SPEAKER_02: But given doing it three times in a row like I think seeing where I'm at right now but and I guess looking at where I was before my Chicago build and maybe like 239 pace to hopefully where I'll be after my Boston build which is you know hopefully under 230 pace it just will show like how quickly I think you can improve uh if you're stacking these marathon blocks back to back especially if you haven't been running for um you know that long.
57:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:31
SPEAKER_01: You know on that on not running long and obviously where you're doing very well do you feel like you're getting close to a ceiling or you got a lot more to go left on the tank?
57:41
SPEAKER_04: I got I got a lot more.
57:44
SPEAKER_02: I sound I mean exciting I've been running for two and a half years I I've only ever run 70 miles in a week um which I guess sounds like a lot but for these guys that are you know running the OTQ or gunning for OTQ uh paces like they're running a hundred 110 like yeah and I I mean I'm not saying I'm close or anything but like let's do the math I'm 16 minutes off 17 minutes off like on 70 yeah there's a lot more that I think I can do um in the marathon for sure.
58:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean just two and a half years in like I think if you give me another two or three years who knows where I'll be like it there could be a ton of improvement um I I do believe that I I have a lot left for sure.
58:38
SPEAKER_02: At some point I I would love to uh drop a a pretty nasty 50 miler and see what I can do there.
58:44
SPEAKER_02: Maybe maybe some you know 100Ks whatever I I don't know.
58:48
SPEAKER_02: But I I think that is a sport that uh also calls to me at some point too.
58:54
SPEAKER_02: Longer ultrasonist to answer your question uh I feel like I'm just getting started.
59:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's awesome man what what uh excites you more I mean I know you got Boston right now coming up very soon um but what excites you more chasing time right now getting faster much faster or like hey just keep building this stack in longevity obviously you have a very smart approach to your running like what which one are you favoring more right now like let me get faster or like let me keep working on the longevity and base here yeah uh it's definitely a a balance you have to manage.
59:29
SPEAKER_02: Um I was thinking even before this race that I ran last week I was because it I just didn't have a great taper I was like I was sick I was like I was on vacation I just didn't feel like all that great and like the week leading up to it I was like man like I wish I just like kept building like I I feel like I could just keep running 70 mile weeks up until Boston and like that would be great.
59:54
SPEAKER_02: But then I ran in and I was like oh thank god I did that like you know I'm really happy so I think that's something you have to you have to balance um and I I recognize um I mean I I just get so excited for these races it's so fun and I love like I mean something like Boston like I feel like that's a such an awesome and unique opportunity and experience like I'm gonna cherish that memory forever I'm sure of course yeah but I also try to recognize and something very important for myself uh when I am going into races is realizing that I'm gonna run faster than this in three months or six months or whatever my next marathon is.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_02: So I try to take the pressure off uh that way um and be like yeah this is just another stepping stone um towards me becoming you know finding that ceiling that you mentioned and becoming the best marathoner that I can be.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_02: So I guess to answer your question uh I'm leaning towards the latter just like becoming as fast as I possibly can is really like you know the goal like finding my limit and stuff but these races are nothing to ignore along the way like I I they're just they're they're awesome milestones and uh things to celebrate so I try to take a moment to appreciate them when they happen but also recognizing and keeping my focus on the bigger picture.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_01: Everyone listening if you like this episode and Max amazing story here and build process and man he's yeah I can hear it already he's gonna get faster putting in some great mileage and work.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_01: If you you've been building yourself either and running your life this one's for you here.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_01: This has been the People Run podcast with Fitz thank you Max for hopping on until next time guys uh keeping it