Latest / The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+ / What If the Life You Built No Longer Fits?

Transcript

What If the Life You Built No Longer Fits? · The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wisdom Trust.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Lauren Crawford.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for gay men over 50 who sense there's more to this stage of life than we've been taught.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: More connection, meaning, honesty, and possibility.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Each episode is a conversation with a thoughtful gay man who's navigating the deeper questions that often emerge in the second half of life: aging, identity, purpose, belonging, reinvention, community, love, and living consciously.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: These are not conversations about decline, they're conversations about becoming.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you're here.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Wisdom Trust.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Today, my guest is Greg Taylor.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Before I introduce Greg, just a reminder that guests are here, not because they're celebrities or they've got everything figured out.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're real people, just like you, living life, having some joys, having some challenges, but they've got a story to share.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I've identified them as people to be here, so that you can be inspired, perhaps.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: That you can, if you're feeling that more is possible at this stage in your life, maybe glean something from Greg.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: So let me tell you a little bit about Greg.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: So Greg is a registered clinical counselor and career strategist in Vancouver, British Columbia.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: He empowers others to step into their value, build confidence, and take that next right step in their personal and professional journey.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: His life journey has led him down winding pathways both in his career and in his personal and spiritual path as a gay man.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he uses these experiences to inform and support his work with others.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Greg.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to invite you to elaborate a little bit.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us a little bit more about who you are.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, great.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate this opportunity, Lauren.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's to chat with you and just to share a bit more because I know this is so important for those of us who are gay men, kind of later chapters and trying to find our way, find community, find connection.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So it's great to be here.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so in terms of my story, I'm actually Canadian, born in Canada, born in Montreal, grew up in Montreal, went through high school, college, went to university in New Brunswick, to University New Brunswick before going back to Montreal to start some work, and then ended up in Winnipeg, then Calgary, and eventually Vancouver.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I've lived quite the ways across Canada, which has given me a great understanding of the diversity of this country.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I've been in Vancouver now for the last 30 years and have held a variety of roles.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, of course, as you mentioned, I have a private practice where I work with individuals, both as a career strategist, especially for mature professionals, to find themselves at a crossroads, meaning they're not quite, things don't quite fit anymore, but they're not quite sure what to do next.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I help them figure out where they're at now in terms of their change process and transition and help reposition them to look for new opportunities that they may want.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also do mental health counseling as a registered clinical counseling, and sometimes a little bit of both, depending on where people are at.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm actively involved in Vancouver community.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Part of my transition points, I think we were going to talk about, we can jump to those later, was that I did my counseling degree a little later in life at 50 and went back to university.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time I was engaged with him in Vancouver, Health Initiative for Men.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, one of the places I did my practicum for that degree.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then another interesting part of my journey is my whole walk through the ups and downs of being Christian and connected to a church and faith community, which in the early days was not helpful.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And in current days is an amazing supportive community.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to circle back to a lot of those things.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: What I would like to come back to at this point is working with men at this stage in life.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: When you said that, that really resonated with me because I've been doing a similar thing for the last couple of years.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that can happen, unbeknownst to a lot of us, when we hit midlife, there's this natural pivot that's attempting to be undertaken.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I look at it and I'd be interested to hear your perspective as that deeper part of us, the soul, let's say, use that word, is kind of tapping on the shoulder and saying, you might want to like check some other aspects out at this stage in life, because what got you here may not be the stuff that's going to necessarily springboard you forward.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I like that you you reference that.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of look at it as revisiting purpose at this stage because I think our values change a lot.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And really what we're interested in changes a lot.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So any comments on that before we we dive in a little bit further?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you're spot on.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and and it can be both.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's a draw to something new, right?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, as we mature and we start to get grounded in our values and what's important and also the nature of work and how it fits in our lives.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if we'd like to create something different in terms of how we go about doing work, of course, there's that.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes also careers just it's like a carton of milk.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: It has an expiry date that we may not have been told about or noticed.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes it's just that people some things just start feeling like they don't fit anymore.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like stale milk.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they can eventually stink a little bit.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, it's it's nice to start to listen to the signs of that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: The challenge for most people is they don't know what to do, or they have narratives that say, I've, you know, the the I've spent too long in this career, I've invested too much to make a change, or if I'm too old, it's too late.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And those are all myths that I like the best in the work that I do.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And necessarily so, right?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's really important.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: The scale dated is definitely an aspect.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when you think about it, a lot of us are programmed to think at a certain age we're going to retire.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I here's my thing around retirement.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Retirement's a concept that's decades old.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about it in Canada, our our federal pension plan kicked in sometime in the 60s, right?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, with that golden age of 65.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so we've been kind of programmed to believe that you know, we work and do our jobs, and then at 65 or somewhere around there, we're going to retire.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when we look at the context of that, it's really was created in a time when people were doing all sorts of jobs, maybe jobs they weren't, you know, enamored of.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe their jobs had gone a little bit stinky, but but they knew that retirement was coming, 65.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then back then, the reality was you'd live for five or 10 years and it you and then you were gone.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really this sort of respite from work, some relaxation time before your final your final days.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I keep saying this, my mom's 89.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and if I'm gonna live like my mom, she's very feisty, so she's she's not going anywhere.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: What would I do between the ages of 65 and and 90, right?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: In this thing called retirement.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a whole other paradigm we need to kind of be considering.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean maybe take another job, especially if you don't like it.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: But to your point, finding what is lighting us up.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and maybe that maybe there isn't a need for remuneration, but but there needs to be something.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: There needs to be something.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that they've there's lots of studies out now that show life expectancy is related and correlated to people's sense of purpose and community in their life, right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important to have that, whether it's paid work or or non-paid work.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: But as long as people can hold on to a passion and a purpose, serving people or creating things or whatever it might be, then it actually has an impact on our well-being while we're here and actually extends the amount of time we're here.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I think you know, it used to be that, you know, that whole idea of and a lot of people today actually are say the reverse, I'll never be able to retire, but they say it in a way that sounds like a curse, right?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: In my world, it's like I'm never gonna have to retire because I've built a business and a practice where, of course, I can wind it down, and or I may shift from paid work to volunteer work, but I have engaging things I love to do with people and engaging work that I'd like to continue as long as I can.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I don't have a retirement date.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I retired two years ago from a typical job, nine to five executive role.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: But now I get to pick the kind of projects I work on and do stuff that's creative and meet the needs of the community around me.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that that can be perhaps a little bit of a you know, an inspiration, a wake-up call for some people.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I did the same.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I left a job after 25 years that I was like, eh, no, and now I can do this sort of work, which lights me up, right?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's pivot to the pivot.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's begin.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you've you've shared a few already, changing careers at this stage, you know, modifying, changing.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Having this pivot, which was probably earlier, around your connection to your your your faith and and religion.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So where would you like to go?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: What pivot do you want to indulge us with a little bit?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, just yeah, briefly for my kind of career trajectory, you know, my original training was in marketing and sales.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had a business degree, and I got into that kind of channel in a larger corporation, but really didn't fight find a vibe for that.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's when I moved out west and I ended up in these sales roles.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I did well at the beginning because it was more customer service, customer support, because there hadn't been sales reps in the area for a long time.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to just by helping people get their orders straight and do some training on our products, you know, then everything went great.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: But the next year, when they said, okay, now you need to start renegotiating contracts and selling more, which some people thrive on, I did not thrive on it.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually had a personal meltdown, career meltdown and an emotional meltdown at that time.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: This was way back in my kind of late 20s, and and was trying to figure out, you know, because I realized by that point I really actually would like to be helping people somehow, not just selling them something.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and through a series of serendipitous events, I met somebody who had a training company who did career and job search work with funded through the government, and they needed a facilitator.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully, they were so needing somebody that they actually convinced me I could do it.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got facilitating groups.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I was in there, it was like, oh my God, I found the magic of what I want to be doing.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I was able to use my old past degree to still help people write cover letters, describe themselves, all of that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I spent, you know, 20 or more years doing that kind of work.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when funding for those kinds of programs, which I ended up bringing over here to Vancouver in my work, shifted, I decided to make a change myself.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd always wanted to do deeper work with people.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when at 50, I about 12 years ago, went back to school, did my master's degree.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: From there, I ended up managing mental health programs and organizations, doing employee assistance programs and being a leader with a large not-for-profit.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: So when you uh when you were referencing you used the the word serendipitous, right?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: That you you knew you wanted to make a change in your late 20s, and all of a sudden there was something in front of you.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, how the heck did that happen?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would argue that you manifested that.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know we we're living in a time of manifestation, learn how to manifest.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: But if we're setting out sending out the vibes to the universe that we want change, and even if we're not entirely clear about what that is, there will be opportunities put in our pathway continuously.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what we as humans tend to do because we get so myopic and tunnel vision about where we think we need to be going, we miss a lot of those opportunities.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there are no surprises or whatever.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Serendipity is a beautiful word, but I actually think that there's a lot of alignment that starts to happen.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And look at how that took you on this trajectory to become a fuller version of who you are.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, exactly.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and that that relates a lot because at that time, right, I've been spending time contemplating, right?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: How what am I gonna do?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have money to go back and do a different degree.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had this business degree, so I kept pondering the question how do I help people with a business degree?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: My first step into that was doing small business consulting because I thought, well, at least it's smaller businesses with people I can help, but still it was a lot of selling services and that kind of thing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So what happened was because I'd asked that question, when this guy came into that company doing the small business consulting and said, Hey, I need some paperwork done for a new business, but I actually own a training company, right?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: It clicked in my brain.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the next time they came in, I had the guts to say, So you mentioned a training company.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was wondering what that is.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when he said, Oh, well, you guys do training here, and I did a very broad leap of faith, yes, answer to that question.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Then that's when the hey, I'm hiring for somebody is that's something you'd be interested in.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a big leap of faith.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said, it was kind of that moment arrived out of my contemplation, and I was and I was willing and able to say yes, even though it was out of my norm and very scary at the moment.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's so great.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I let's let's now look at going back to university at that stage in life and and how did that all come to fruition?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know you said you wanted to change and all of that, but the mechanics of making such a big decision in a midlife kind of period can be very, very daunting.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So walk us through that.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know, it's like we mentioned earlier, just recognizing when it's time for a shift.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: My organiz my company was in the area of career and career development and career transition, and our sector was going through a big change.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was the president of the career association, and we'd been working with the government that was changing their funding model for all our programs.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we were having meetings because they decided to create the current WorkBC system, which was going to be these large one-stop shop kind of centers.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so we negotiated or lobbied for them to allow smaller organizations to join together to pitch on those contracts.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we were in the early stages of having all these meetings, all these agencies together to see who might partner.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh one day I was in sitting in one of the meetings going, I don't, I lobbied for this, but I don't think I want to do this.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I've had it good doing the program I've been doing, and I'm not sure I want to be part of one of these bigger groups.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and so one day I showed up at the meeting and said, you know, hey everyone, just before we go further, I'm gonna step back from working to partner on the new system that's coming in.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I got shocked looks because it's like, wait a minute, you're the president of the association, you're supposed to do this.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had other people looking at me with that kind of look that said, was that an option?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a choice?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh in making that choice, it opened up my options to say, well, then now what do I want to do?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I sold that business and in that moment realized, okay, it isn't too late, and I wanted to plan ahead to my future.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I thought, okay, I always wanted to get my master's in counseling, be able to be a clinical counselor to do deeper work with people.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm gonna bite the bullet, take a bit of a risk, put some of my money where my plans are.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I worked part-time and did my schooling uh online mainly, close to full-time, and uh just committed those couple of years, heads down, doing the work.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it unfolded a whole new chapter where I thought I might start a private practice after that.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up connecting to a wonderful organization where I was able to contribute to community mental health programs, a big not-for-profit, and to still use my business skills to evolve and grow a workplace mental health program that they offered to organizations throughout the greater Vancouver area.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, and then it was after 12 years of that, you know, when I hit about 60, that I just had to ask myself, now is this the thing?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And things were coming to a transition.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I had a great right-hand person doing great work with the organization.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And something inside me just said, I think, you know, I still had pension I could earn there, right?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: There are lots of reasons to stay.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: The good news is they also wanted me to stay, and I loved the team there and the organization, but just something inside said, no, this is the time to use that degree to do the homework.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that, you know, I had enough managing.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'd managed companies, programs, and people for 30 plus years.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just felt like time to kind of make some choices for myself and haven't regretted a moment.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: There are a couple of things there that I really want to emphasize because I think they're so important.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: You you said that you took some of your money and you know went back to school.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes a lot of us get into that place where we we we think we can't afford to invest in ourselves at this stage in life.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is the best asset that we have, not the house, not the car, not the stuff, this.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when people are reluctant to invest in themselves, to to get past that place in in midlife where they're kind of feeling, you know, anchored, uh anchorless or you know, untethered, whatever language you want to use, at a crossroads, you know, and aren't clear.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great time because I wasn't you know 50 when I went back to university, I was 28, but I had enough life experience that when I was there, I was there and I did really well.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it changed my life, just like you're saying, which is really, really important and powerful and transformational.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about getting another job, it's about transforming who you are.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing that you said that I think is really important is you said, you know, that that inner feeling was telling you it was time to make that pivot.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So often we dismiss those, just like those signposts that we might be missing because we're so tunnel vision.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: When we have those little moments of insight, oftentimes the the rational left brain, reductive mind will just dismiss them.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, what if that was your soul trying to give you a little hint about what could make your life even more perfect?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you just dismissed it outright.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's something to that deeper listening.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, most definitely.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's so important to hear the small voice that's kind of speaking up and to pay attention to it.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've run career programs for decades now.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: When I was doing group programs, you know, through Service Canada, there were oftentimes people in their 50s who were there because they'd been laid off, their sector had changed, right?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: There was downsizing, whatever happened, a new leader came in and just didn't like certain people, right?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they were sitting in the program and they were sitting in the program saying, I had a thought of making a change five, 10 years ago.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I really should have done it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there was tons of regret.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: They saw a time and an opportunity to make a change, and then they but the what they say is I decided to play it safe, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And my what I've learned seeing people's lives and careers over the years is playing it safe is not safe, right?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because you get stuck in the status quo and it always assumes that your environment is not going to change.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Just because you decide to stay doesn't mean that it's gonna keep you.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a bit of a surviving mentality, right?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me, that's just not a way to live.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: How can that the whole thrust of this wisdom trust stuff is inspiration?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: How can we thrive?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: How can we make choices?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't necessarily mean going back and doing master's degree, they can be smaller choices that have monumental impacts on your life, yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, completely.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, same skills, new audience, or you know, like I'm tired of the term lifelong learning because it just sounds so exhausting.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I like the term right time, right type training, you know, just plugging in the right skill, certificate, self-learning, whatever, to add to the skills to make a pivot and shift what you're doing.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: I consider myself the perpetual student because a student, there's something that's youngish about that word, and and this just this thriving urge to learn and to grow.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's to me, that just helps me continue to want to like shift and change and and move forward, right?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about being stuck.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you you go back, you you you make that pivot, and you start working less in the managerial capacity, the big running programs, to a little bit more of.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Of maybe one-on-one and group work.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: What what did that change at this stage in life?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh give you some freedom from?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: So what what did you get to escape from in doing that?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess I got some freedom from you know the daily grind, so to speak.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love my work and the people, but still you're showing up at set times for set meetings.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're part of meetings that you may or may not need to be a part of, but it's part of the process.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Big client challenges, annual budget time, you know, in a large amount for profit was always a challenge because, you know, you're always trying to spread the money around and where you get it from.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was a lot of that aspect of it that when I was kind of thriving in that space, it was a great challenge.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I recognized that okay, this is no longer feeling like thriving in a challenge.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: This feels I'm starting to feel some dread, right?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, so being able to go out on my own allowed me to make some of my own time choices, uh, but of course, not without risks, right?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you make a change like that, you know, I had plans, of course.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've been thinking about how I might launch the private practice and and all of that.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, when you make the, you know, you're signing forms that say, yes, I'm giving up any additional years of pension and you're signing away your, you know, it's you know, you may grumble about your work, but when the pay, you know, pay shows up in your bank account every two weeks, right?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly there's a lot of benefits to staying.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I pushed through that period and off onto my own.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the transition took longer than I planned, even though I'm a transition expert and career expert.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: You always think, oh, I've got it together, I know what I'm gonna do next.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the first month or two after I left the job, I just found out how tired I was.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that true?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, for for me, it I I think it took about three months for me.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it and I do a lot of energy work, so it wasn't so much about fatigue in the body, but it was more like I needed to wash that environment off of like it just needed to leave me.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and it was a it was about a three-month kind of yeah, because when you're in in involved in something for many years, decades, you don't realize how much that culture gets right stuck in you.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right than just the culture of drive and work and the certain tempo and scale, right?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and then after that I realized, oh, I'm not I don't have anywhere to be right now.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I have some time, I think I should travel.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up taking a couple trips because I really wasn't feeling quite ready to get going.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was after those trips that then finally I said, okay, I've had my rest time, I've had my travel time, and I think I need to get something rolling before I lose too much momentum.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I started to put the word out, create my website, you know, got my network going, and started to get referrals and working with clients.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: The the taking trips thing I find interesting because I often say, Well, so what, you're gonna retire and then you're gonna take what what a bunch of cruises every year and do your gardening for how many years?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like at some point that's gonna become tedious too, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: So how else can you be?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and part of it was, you know, I've got some time, not a lot of money, but a little gap.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, who says how long we're around?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm taking this moment without with the time space, right?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I'd take longer than a two-week, maybe three-week trip in the previous couple decades, right?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So this enabled a good long trip to the Philippines overseas, and then I did a two-month road trip across Canada and the US a couple years ago.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a great, great bucket list couple trips that I wanted to do, and I love I've got that bucket list, Cabot Trail.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I never did when I lived in Ottawa for all those years, it was so nearby, and same Gaspazé moved up in through northern Quebec.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Stunningly beautiful.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Never did that.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so now it's on my list.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: I got those both in on the road trip all the way through Newfoundland, and just a little plug for Newfoundland.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: I once I was there, I agreed to be their official ambassador because uh it is a big island with spectacular uh environment there.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Everything from mountains that rival Alberta to beautiful coastal fishing towns, so it's an amazing place.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Very picturesque and beautiful people.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Find the wisdom trust on school, school.com slash the dash wisdom dash trust slash about.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Website is wisdomtrust50.com.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Find us on Substack, the Wisdom Trust.substack.com.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not watching this on YouTube, youtube.com slash at the Wisdom Trust 50.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: See you on those platforms.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: So so you're doing all that and and you're you're moving in.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: What what what did that move you towards as this newer version of Greg at this stage in your life?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think authentic and integrated, I would say.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: What I what I love about my work, and especially when we talk about being more mature, right?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, you know, that means we are a little bit more mature, you know, and and we've collected wisdom along the way.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been able to pull in the work that I do with people from my kind of business background.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm able to pull in the work that I did in kind of HR kind of circles, able to bring in the career transition coaching and counseling piece.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And also my other interest areas of neuroscience of change.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just finished as part of my growth, personal growth and learning has been a certification in the neuroscience of change and content are circling around that in some workshops.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been able to integrate that into the work that I do with people.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm able to bring kind of a holistic background that I'm able to then kind of meet each person where they're at and figure out where what the stumbling block is.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is it skills, is it training, is it direction, or is it actually a personal transition that people are evolving through that I can help them with?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's fun work.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I love every minute of it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: I get to develop workshops, I get to work one-on-one with clients.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh, you know, it's it's great when your work is showing up as you with what you know.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then just be fully present to people during the time that you're with them.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing better than that.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and maybe at some point our wisdom trust community will get to explore some of that.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love the whole quantum aspect of who and what we are.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's been something I've been exploring for the last few years too.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: It layers so beautifully on the decades of yoga and tantra and Iur Veda work that I've done.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: A different perspective, same, same, real, really the same study, right?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, on that note, how is it that you then at this stage loving what you're doing, showing up in a way that you feel authentically you?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: How are you leveling up aside from the work?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like what other things in your life are are really elevating and leveling you up as well?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, another aspect, and you know, I've kind of behind the scenes of all of this work and career and evolution, you know, there's also me as a gay male, and you know, and we all have a journey in our own understanding of our sexuality and our and our spirituality, and and the big question for many is do those even fit together?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or there's a great book I read once just about that evolving process, and you know, and the the question was, you know, what would happen if your spirituality and your sexuality went out for coffee?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: What would that conversation be like?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And for many people it would be, you know, they wouldn't have an understanding to how to articulate that necessarily in either area.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: And for some people it would be, you know, if they wouldn't have anything to talk about.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Some people have very negative kind of religion related, you know, when we talk spirituality, it's very connected to religion that they may have faced a lot of rejection from.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's part of my journey.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the behind the backstory to my own journey is, you know, growing up born in the 60s through this, you know, young in the 60s, 70s, absolutely no frame of reference for gayness.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't have words to express the feelings that I had.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I just faked it along with everybody else and you know, in high school, dated some girls and went off to university, lived in a men's dorm, which was you know confusing and torturing at the same time.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also very homophobic.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, so that was buried through all that period.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it was only into my 20s that I one day finally realized, oh, these feelings are gay feelings, right?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like putting a word to it.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds ridiculous to me.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: But that's funny.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: That was me too, brother.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't what I wanted.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have a frame of reference, didn't have a community for that, only had negative connotations towards it.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: I because I kind of played along and worked along in the the world and and with my family all around me, siblings with families, my assumption was get married and have kids, and which felt appealing.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was an unwanted factor in my life.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and so I suppressed it, ignored it.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up kind of aligned to it, was an alcohol issue I'd formed as a teenager that was on and off, but kind of got exasperated it as I was trying to suppress the feelings.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, then when I finally came out, it was in an untidy way and was really in a double life kind of way, right?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that meant the drinking and the sexuality, sex, and expression of myself got muddled up and just made it again worse.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it just confirmed that this wasn't great and good.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I ended up being one of those people that got into some counseling and into because I'd had grown up in the church, I got reconnected because I was feeling lost and got connected to a church, which was a wonderful kind of community, and very conservative, biblically speaking.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: So very kind of anti-gay rhetoric and anti-gay teaching, right?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but it fit my internalized homophobia.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I joined those groups and I did the things, process the process, to supposedly change my sexuality or heal or whatever it was, the terminology.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and I did that for a long time and ended up because you buy into the system and because of who I am, I ended up getting into some group leading and leadership roles in that whole world, a whole other chapter of my life, yeah, to the point where I finally realized one day this is unauthentic.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm telling a story, I'm telling a narrative that actually isn't true.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so do you recall?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was a moment or if it was an accumulation of moments, but do you recall that where you just kind of like, okay, I can't do this anymore?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what did that feel like for you?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was terrible.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was, you know, of course, the moment of freedom, but it didn't feel like it because it was a moment of loss because I'd built, you know, church connections and group people and and a cohort of friends and and people I was friends with that were wonderful people and equally misguided as I was.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and so through all of this, of course, the goal was still how do you have a relationship?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole goal of this process was for me to become comfortable with, happy with, you know, finding a woman and meeting them and and getting married and having a relationship because we wanted to have a relationship.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did meet a woman that what I didn't hide things from them.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: They knew the journey I'd been on, but we dated for quite a while and they were wonderful.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and so we were working towards getting engaged.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: And a couple of things happened in my family.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: My sister-in-law passed away, which was very confronting about life, right?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Life and death.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and I we had drifted because we both ended up with some fear reactions on her part and my part.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was coming back from this trip to go meet her, realizing if I don't decide something, I'm gonna lose her.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in my mind, that meant making a commitment.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was driving to this meeting, and I was going across the bridge to the North Shore from Vancouver, and the way I tell it is that you know, I was shaking so hard, I almost drove off the bridge.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: My body was shaking so hard, and the little voice came to me that said, I don't think this is supposed to feel like this.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: This glorious moment to commit to our relationship.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got to the meeting and had to say, This is not gonna work.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is wow, I wonder you you had it out thinking it was gonna be one conversation, and then your body said that's not gonna happen.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or something.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank God.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and so so uh what a horror, you know, and you know, it's me, it's not you, you know, all of those horrible things you say, and yeah, and uh and so I walked away from that, and because so much of my sexuality process had been wrapped up with the whole God and church thing, in that moment I I yelled, what if not out loud inside, you know, I hate God.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and then just after that, a little thought popped in my head that said, I actually hate the God of my understanding, yeah, and God is way bigger than my understanding.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and so I made a deal.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just the framing and the the paradigm I was caught up in.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so in that moment, I I held on to that thought, and then I just said, God, you know, you're you're going on the shelf.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just too close, it's too painful, I'm angry, I'm hurt, and I need to figure myself out.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm putting you on the shelf.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And uh thankfully at that time, because by then I had recovered from my alcohol addiction.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been through treatment and recovery and was doing well, generally speaking, other in other areas of my life.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided it was just time for me to be well, and that just meant make well choices.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: It meant also not choosing to come out, to date, to go to clubs.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that wasn't the immediate solution.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: I really needed to find my center and what I wanted.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just took a break from everything, went to the gym, ate healthy, made healthy lifestyle choices, and and then emerged from that a couple of years later, where I was able to start asking the question, okay, now what?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and by then deciding that yes, I'm gay, yes, there needs to be a journey for me to come out.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do it in a healthy way.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I grew up in the church, it's part of my history.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in other words, and I had a true spirituality that was a part of all of that.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I couldn't ignore it.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so there was a period where it started to awaken and started to ask questions like what could my spirituality look like, and not have to split it off from my who I am as a person and as a gay man.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so that set me off on a wonderful journey forward to reconciling those elements of myself.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, and I know because we've already spoken about this, that you have a lot of fun at this stage in your life.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us about that.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I know a lot of it is is connected to your your commitment to your church and your faith.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I mean a lot at the end of that whole process, I ended up connecting with St.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Andrews Wesley United Church here in the Vancouver, BC.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: 100%, 110% inclusive and affirming congregation, gay ministry staff, a complete wonderful blend of uh ages, stages, straight, queer people, and and so really found a home, a social home, and a faith home, spirituality home, but without all the constraints and the old baggage and you know archaic understandings of old scriptures.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm part of the gospel choir, love singing.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of one of my spiritual practices, it's physiologically, it's deep breathing and a focused intent, right?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Where you can't think about life and your challenges when you're trying to hit the right note.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: I also co-lead and help one of the ministers lead our LGBTQ spirituality group, and over the years been help, helping to guide many people, especially gay men who had similar backgrounds to me, who were mistreated by the church and were harmed by that, but who also still had this spiritual dimension to them and were looking for a way to express it.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so being able to help people come out of their kind of religious trauma and be able to reconnect and not that this is where they have to be or that you know, Christian church has to be the way they express it.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Many people find other areas, but you know, it's the the culture and the place that I'm part of.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so many people come and just find freedom and then go their own way, and then other people, you know, find a home and say, no, this is the expression of faith and and spirituality that I'd like to hold on to, and and uh they become part of the community here.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we have social activities and meeting groups and things that I love to do as a volunteer, and so those are just a few of the things.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And along that whole way, after that whole painful journey of coming out, I met a wonderful partner.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've have a partner.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've been together for 17 years through all of this emerging state that I've been in, and and so that's been a wonderful part of my journey too.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, so life is good on the personal front, on the community front, and on the work front.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: What I love about this navigation of faith and Christianity and arriving where you've arrived is now like what a gift that you can serve others who are confused and and not clear about how how do I how do I navigate this stuff that is part of me, and maybe I still want it to be part of me, but I don't want it at the expense of you know my identity, right?
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's just a beautiful, beautiful.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can't even imagine, you know, how many, how many lives you've impacted in a way that, you know, it's priceless, it's beautiful.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's a redemptive process for me where you know I was misguided and then I misguided other people at an earlier phase.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so this allows me a kind of as a redeeming act to uh help people integrate and accept their sexuality fully on a deep level and know that they can have a deeper kind of cosmic connection in terms of their spirituality too, and that we can be can whole in who we are.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Can you and your partner celebrate your your faith together?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Are uh is your partner Christian as well?
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, they uh they like to say a recovering Catholic, so which a little harder for them.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: So so they aren't active as much as I am, but on a personal level, we have a very shared understanding of things and spirituality that we share together.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so our values related to our families, real values related to other people and how we treat people and towards each other in our relationship, and on a spiritual level, we're connected, although they aren't as connected to kind of organized events and religion as I am.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm sure they're watching you when you perform and in your choir and and yeah, sharing.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're very happy for me, and uh we have a very easy relationship in that way where uh you know they're they're happy for me to have those events.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're way more introverted as well, so they're just happy I'm I'm well engaged in other activities while they get to have some downtime and alone time.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was that was great.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna pivot into the the final segment here, which is really about wisdom.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: You used this word earlier, you know, at this stage in life, there is a lot of wisdom we can draw upon.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Ergo, the the wisdom trust.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's my my belief too.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: All of these experiences that we have, the good, the bad, and the ugly, they teach us their their life is our teacher, right?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: In so many ways.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of that does become wisdom.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: So what would you like to share with folks folks who are listening or watching and Maybe are at that that place of a crossroads aren't entirely sure what the next years or decades are gonna look like and feel like.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is there is there anything you would like to impart?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just on that note, you know, the idea of wisdom, I heard uh somebody say that uh wisdom is a memory, but without the emotional baggage, right?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Which means those impactful moments, positive and or negative or harmful from our past can be kind of refined and turned into a wisdom that we can share with others and carry forward.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, for people who are at a crossroads and looking at this, you know, there's still time ahead for one thing.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I I'd rather my my days be a reflection of my future that I'm working towards and building than a re uh than reflection of the past.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, a lot of people live out of the past and continue to kind of recreate the past because they're caught in old loops, old beliefs, old careers, old patterns that they just continue to repeat because we could become very conditioned and habituated into our life, right?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: But oftentimes there's events, signals or signs, a small voice that comes up that say there might be something more, or maybe it's time for something to change, or maybe this pattern isn't healthy.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do I choose something different?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that may be just a signal that now's the time to listen.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, to get help from the outside, of course, that's something that I do, but also to take some time with yourself and find a good book that has journal prompts in it, or have a good conversation with a close friend or a mentor or an elder or somebody to say, I've got these feelings coming up that something needs to shift for me.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I believe community is so important to be have people around you that can carry that vision while you're making those transitions and changes, and to to believe that, you know, a different future than we may be lined up for is possible.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's one of the the like the genesis of this project, The Wisdom Trust, is just that, right?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: That that people can find, you know, some of us are plugged in.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: We've got lots of resources, but there are a lot of folks who just don't, right?
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and a lot of the podcasts out there, you know, some good ones for sure, but sometimes they're skirting around the issues, or the issues are, you know, with someone who's expert this or expert that, and and trying to sell you their solutions.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, maybe, but maybe if we just talk to each other and and and draw upon, I like this idea of sharing and caring, right?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like caring for each other, sharing what we've experienced.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: And in our sharing, we can, you know, create opportunities for other people to see a different light or or a light if they're stuck in darkness.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a wonderful endeavor because there's so many of us kind of gay men, 50s, 60s and beyond, that are trying to figure out what this chapter looks like, right?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, our community is deep and has deeply caring people, but also has lots of superficiality, which can be fun and engaging at different times.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, there's a time for everything under the sun.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we may find ourselves still trying to cling to a past that no longer fits the reality of our values and our stage and what's really important to us.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: And not everyone may always know how to make that shift into this next chapter.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the work that you're doing through this project is really wonderful and much needed in the community.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and this isn't about me, this is about you know creating a space where we we grow something here collectively.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's really, really important.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, Greg, if if people were interested in connecting with you to find you, I'm gonna put your your website on on the screen there.
• 48:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just say it out loud too for the podcast listeners, Greg with two G's, Taylor T-A-Y-L-O-R.ca.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: What will they find there?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: What will our audience find there?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I speak to a few different audiences.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: I have three service areas on my website.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Talks a bit about me and my background.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have a section on counseling, the mental health counseling that I do with people.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have a section on recovery coaching because of my training and coming out of my own recovery journey.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: I support people as a recovery coach and for people who have been addicted to alcohol or substances, past or present, who are looking for a journey to freedom, and also the career coaching and the career transition counseling that I do.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can also find me on LinkedIn and happy to connect and to direct message through LinkedIn, and you'll see my profile there that's very much oriented towards professional at a career crossroads for my niche there on LinkedIn.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: And also the group that I lead here, co-lead here at the church is called The Word Is Out, and it's at St.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Andrew's Wesley United Church on Nelson and Burard in downtown Vancouver.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: We have services that are online for those who live at a distance for our Sundays.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we're happy for you to connect if you have questions about that.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just want to learn more about that dimension of my life or more about our uh community here.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you can follow up too by way of the comments where you're listening or watching this, you know, where we'll track those clearly.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to thank you, Greg, for being here and sharing your your insights, your experience.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: You've had a very, a very interesting journey.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate you taking the time to share it with us.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, thank you again for having me.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was great, and it was a great process to be able to share some of my journey like this and uh kind of to uh on the various levels and nice to think back around uh where I've come from and where I'm at now and uh and just to recollect some of that.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and yeah, if people do want to reach out, I thought I'd just mention, yeah, my my email is Greg G-R-E-G-G at greg tailor.ca.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thanks again.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to our guests today, and thank you for listening.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: If what you heard landed with you, if you felt seen, heard, inspired to make a shift, want to hear about it.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Get back to me on one of our platforms or where you're listening to or seeing this.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know another man over 50 who you think would benefit from hearing this, share it with them, please.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: This community grows when we show up for each other.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can find more essays on these topics, reflections, and such at our Substack account.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Watch for other content on our YouTube channel, and stay connected to us through our school platform.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is where we engage in building our community.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, the second half of life isn't the beginning of the end.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: For many of us, it's the moment life finally begins to open up.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're not alone in this.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're in it together.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you next time in the Wisdom Test.