Latest / Be A Global Citizen! / 189. HGSE Global Citizen: Reem Olaby: We rise by lifting up others

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189. HGSE Global Citizen: Reem Olaby: We rise by lifting up others · Be A Global Citizen!

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Hi there, and welcome to Be a Global Citizen, the podcast that
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explores the concept of global citizenship through the lens of
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value creating education. My name is Scott Bauer and I'm a
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SOCO researcher and educator. I hope you find the discussion,
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stories, and insights on this podcast to being valuable and
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inspiring as we strive to become global citizens who are
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committed to living a contributive life.
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Enjoy the conversation. My name is Reem Olavi and I'm
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based in California, Sacramento and specific.
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The Captain and I work as a an associate professor of
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pharmacology and biotechnology at California and our State
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University. Hi, Reem, thank you so much for
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being on the podcast. I'm very excited to to connect
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with you. This is our first time meeting
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actually virtually, even though we are in the same state of
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California, just I'm a little bit down South over in Los
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Angeles area while you're, you're in the like just above
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where the Bay Area is, right? So Sacramento, it's it's so
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wonderful to, to connect with fellow Harvard folk.
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You are embarking on your your journey in the same program I
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did a little while back. And I think it's just incredible
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to see this diversity of individuals and professionals
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coming together to really make impact.
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That's I think the main emphasis that especially like Doctor
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Scott talks a lot about what is your impact is.
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And yeah. And the, the fact that your,
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your background isn't in the sciences and you're, you're, you
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know, professor at university, Cal State, right Northridge.
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And N State North, they always confuse it.
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Yeah, they always, yeah. So fun.
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It's as it's like a niche university.
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So it's medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, doctor of psychology,
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Health Sciences, BS, MD. So it's Health Sciences mainly.
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Well, I'm so excited to to learn about what brought you to that
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particular university and, and, and what about the sciences
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really gets you passionate about, you know, getting up in
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the morning and impacting the lives of of young people.
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So wanted to pass it over to you and ask if you can share a
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little bit about the milestones in your life.
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What brought you to the work? And yeah, I'm just very excited
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to have this opportunity with you.
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Sure. So I, I know that your, your,
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your podcast or let's say the show, it is a show is about
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global citizenship. And when I think about it, I
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mean, I don't remember, let's say when was I first introduced
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to that, right? But the what impacted my life
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and what impacted what I wanted to be and what I wanted to join
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was, you know, how my parents raised me up actually, because I
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felt that. And I, and once I knew that I
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was going to be with you, I started reflecting, You know, we
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always take it for granted. Yes, I'm a global citizen.
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Oh yes, I care about all humanity and I care about.
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But then I just wanted to know when did it really start?
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And this is when I went back to my upbringing and, and I
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realized the, Oh my God, you know, I was brought up on global
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citizenship before even I knew the the phrase, right?
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So I remember them always teaching me, you know, how there
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always has to be respect for all people no matter what.
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You know, how I should always think about the bigger picture,
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about, you know, contributing to the humanity, even with a very
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small piece, if it's a very small piece.
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And, and they did make me appreciate the teeny tiny
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milestones that we achieve on a daily base and how it's
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connected to us being true citizens, you know, in this
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world and not only in my country, which is the, by the
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way, I'm originally from Egypt, I'm originally Egyptian, Syrian,
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Albanian. So, so apparently, you know,
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they, they combined couple of countries together in under one
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family. So that's a global citizen as
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well. But we, we've never put the
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borders into consideration that much.
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It was always about the values, about the responsibilities,
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about serving others, about, you know, being a beam of hope in
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the middle of despair, which is now, you know, very often that
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we are in a lot of, you know, unfortunately, disappointment,
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sadness, depressing events here and there.
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So this is what guided me to be or to reach where I am today,
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which she will find it as global education somehow, because it's
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not like I'm only, you know, a pharmacist or or like I'm only a
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scientist working on a specific research.
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Even within science, I worked on breast cancer, I worked in
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neurological disorders. And then I decided to put the
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neuroscience hat and, you know, I felt that, yeah, this is what
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I want a neuroscientist, you know, in in neurological
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disorders, whether it's, you know, a new to degenerative or
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neurodevelopmental and so on and so forth.
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So just to to wrap up this part here, the reason why I love
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science and when I say science is not only, you know, the
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technical science, it's also the humanities because you, it is
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science, everything is science, right?
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Is that Louis Pasteur once said science knows no country because
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the knowledge belongs to the humanity and it is the torch
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which illuminates the world. You can see that science is one
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of those global languages like art, like sports, and the part
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of the art is music. We do have several global
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languages and I believe that those are the languages that do
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bring people together, including technology.
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Wow, thank you so much that there's, there's a lot to
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already unpack just from what you've shared.
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And I'm so happy that you you started off with, with your
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parents because you know, parents are just, they're so
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important, right? Without them, we wouldn't be
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here. And I think, you know, being
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fortunate to have parents that really instill those kinds of
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values that you, you shared, I think is like such an important
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way to to like really think about our own character
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development, right? And to have this mindset about
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whatever profession you end up going into that it's about
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making some kind of contribution, albeit maybe very
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small to, to the world, right, to humanity.
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And the the fact that it's yeah, you put this emphasis less so on
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the actual like where you came from in terms of like the
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national border, but the values that were so important to you,
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Like things I think about, you know, that you shared about
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we're like respect and appreciation, bigger picture,
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right? I think all of that is just
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really essential. So thank you for for starting
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off on, on that, that note. And then the sciences piece.
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Yeah, I, I, I've heard that math has been talked a lot about as
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like one of those kind of like global languages as well.
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But you know, I, it, it is so true right now.
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They think about the, the science piece of it that
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sciences change transformed so much of the world that we live
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in. Without those advances in in
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sciences across many, many different fields, we would not
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be, you know, it's just, it's just be vastly different, right?
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All different systems really like benefit from new
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breakthroughs in scientific research.
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So the fact that you're contributing to that as well is
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so great. But with this mindset of there's
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like a certain kind of morality and ethics I'm getting at, I
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think I'm picking up on that I think is also very important.
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Maybe what maybe we could start here when it comes to the like,
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you know, going into the sciences, I know that science
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can really, you know, lead to incredible breakthroughs, you
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know, but that also could, you know, if not really thought
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carefully lead to some terrible things.
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You know, like example, being like a nuclear weapon, right,
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with incredible destructive, you know, your capacity that the
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creators of it maybe didn't truly understand how it would be
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used. And so, you know, could you
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maybe speak a little bit about like in your, you know, long
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journey and education to become, you know, like a professor and
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to study right, the sciences and depth?
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Were you carefully thinking about like the humanity side of
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it right from the beginning or did that kind of come about a
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little bit later? Just kind of curious about your
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own development and and and the sciences.
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Definitely. And by the way, Scott, you did
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happen to something that is very important, which is that science
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is a double, is a double edged weapon.
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I mean, everything in life has two sides, right?
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And science is one of them. So Speaking of humanity, I feel
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that it's always important to bring humanity to whatever we're
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doing because at the end, whatever we're doing is aimed at
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the benefit of humanity as a whole.
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And if we missed that part, then I think we would be missing the
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overall goal of whatever we're doing.
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And that's the core of being a global citizen is OK.
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When I'm working on this research, it's basically, let's
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say, if it's a research that aims at developing a drug
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against a specific disease or a treatment intervention, it's
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basically to benefit humanity. If I'm working on developing a
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specific educational framework, it's to benefit humanity when it
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comes to education, whether it's K through 12 or higher
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education. So whenever we do something, I
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think it's very important to keep reminding ourselves of the
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main purpose of why we're doing it, the why, why we're here, why
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we're doing it, you know, and what do you want to achieve at
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the end. And whenever we put the humanity
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aspect into it, it does give it a much stronger meaning and it
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does refrain us from the biases that could come up or from the
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cherry picking. Sometimes even in research and
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science, you know, you will find that, you know, sometimes it's
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not like we want to prove or find a question, an answer for a
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research question. Sometimes you feel that no
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actually wants to find a specific answer for that
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question. And if that answer is not there,
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we will force it to be the answer, which will never benefit
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humanity. And I can actually tap into
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Speaking of global citizens, you know, I can tap into an example.
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So for instance, in the 19th centuries and before that, let's
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say 19th and early 20th century, there were 7 of pseudo
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scientific, you know, studies that let's say, try to link race
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and skin color, you know, with intelligence and, and the, oh,
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if that person is from this skin color for that race, then
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they're not intelligent. And intelligence is only for a
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specific race or a specific or people with specific skin color.
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And the reason why this is a pseudoscience is that whenever
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we do a scientific research experiment, there has to be
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different components and different factors that we should
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put into consideration. So for instance, if we're doing
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such a study, we need to look at the socioeconomic status.
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We need to look at the cultural, you know, environment.
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We need to look at the educational differences, the
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neighborhood itself, you know, and, and we need to put aside
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any implicit biases that we have, any racist motivations,
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you know, that we so or else it won't be a scientific research
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study. It's biased, non scientific or
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pseudo scientific study because it's not trying to prove
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something in general for the benefit of humanity.
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It's actually trying to prove something to discriminate
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against specific people or to marginalized more, you know,
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against specific creates or specific ethnicities.
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So that's one thing. The other is I feel that, you
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know, genetics, for instance, as a field is amazing because it
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did show us how similar we are as human beings.
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And that is why the concept of global citizenship is amazing
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because we are 99.9% identical genetically.
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And if someone said, well, OK, how is it possible that we are
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different in colors and are different in this and that, I'll
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tell you that it's only .1% when it comes to those visible
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differences, which means skin color, eye color, height,
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disease risk, all of these accounts for only the point 1%
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difference. So we are 99.9% identical and
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then that .1% is the difference and we're talking about the skin
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color specifically that's point O 1% only of the point 1%
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difference. So to wrap this up, when we when
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we talk about scientific research, I think objectivity is
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always the key. I think it's always important to
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put into consideration that as global citizens, we need
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whatever we work on to have a global impact one way or
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another. You know, when, when you throw a
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rock in the water, it, it starts creating, you know, those
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circles. So I mean, even if I'm impacting
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this, the closest circle to the rock.
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And then whoever is taking over and continuing in other
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countries will continue expanding that impact, right?
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So as long as I started that dynamic interaction, you know,
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in the science field, in my specific, you know, let's say
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discipline, then hopefully it will create a cascade effect
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that will end up hopefully in benefiting humanity.
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And we can see all sorts of scientific discoveries and
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breakthroughs in different fields that started this way.
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Thank you so much, Rheem. And I love the imagery of the,
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the, the ripple effects that you were describing because it, it
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stems from the actions that we take.
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And, and then also recognizing that those ripples that are
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cascading right across the, the lake, the water, whatever it is,
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it's the same body of waters that all these other people are
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taking their actions. And that kind of speaks to the,
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the ways in which one ripple can, you know, come up against
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another or form to join a bigger ripple, right?
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But it's all, you know, kind of connected or kind of interacting
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on that same plane and having greater awareness as far as how
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that that interplay is, I think is really important.
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But you know, the quality of of the ripples.
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I think there's also very important what you were talking
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about the this the the pseudoscience, right, with skin
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color being an associated with intelligence and how that ties
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into racism. It's, you know, it's we need to
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like really understand like what, where where is this like
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pursuit for like science really coming from?
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Is it just to, as you said, cherry pick or to like prove a
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certain bias that you have, or is it coming from a genuine
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pursuit of of truth, right, Which is very big.
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You know, it's a loaded word and you know, like it's a lot of
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people kind of toss that around very lightly as well, right?
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But I think that there's something really noble in that
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ongoing inquiry that is not just about proving oneself, but also
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really just being engaged in like a genuine pursuit with,
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with a lot of other people, right?
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Because again, that scientific community, it's not just the US,
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it's not just Egypt, right? But it's that global language
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that you were talking about. We're talking, you know, it's,
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it's trying to add one small layer to, you know, this kind of
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mountain, right, of, of knowledge that's been building
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over, over, you know, hundreds of years, right?
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And so I, I think that what, what you're speaking to in terms
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of like connecting the scientific research with what
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does it mean to be a global citizen, to be really important.
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And you, you started off talking about how it's, it's with kind
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of anchoring oneself in, in humanity, right.
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And to have this kind of like belief in humanity, I would say
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this desire to contribute to humanity, you know, that's
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incredible. I find that a lot of people
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don't think that way. Or yeah, I mean, the incentive
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structure of, you know, the, the, the field in general.
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Sometimes people think of it as I'm going to do science or
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become a doctor because I will make a lot of money, right?
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Or I'll have job security or I'll have status.
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Those are actually three of the things that when I was thinking
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about like what do I want to do with my life?
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You know, in high school I considered going down the the,
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you know, healthcare, you know, kind of pathway.
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And it was for those reasons humanity did not make the top
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five, you know, in terms of like incentives.
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So my question is why? Why is that the situation and in
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your capacity, we know why is it that like putting that humanity
18:53
piece at the forefront, not more prevalent in a lot of, you know,
18:57
schools? And then what what are you doing
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in your capacity to address that since you deal with a lot of
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young people at your university? And so I'm sure that this comes
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up immediately on day one, just from what little I've already,
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you know, learned about you, I would imagine this is, you know,
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crucial that they really understand what it means to
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contribute back to humanity. Definitely.
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I mean, it's all about compassion to start with.
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And compassion is one of those sort of let's say fertilizers.
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If we want to create the a global citizenship land, then
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one of the great fertilizers is the OR or let's say cultivated
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land is is compassion. So the reason why I think we
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tend to forget about the concept of global, global citizenship
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and and tend not to have humanity on the top of the list
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or the priorities is that capitalism and, and the, the,
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the extremely fast pace in life, not only in one country, but in
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so many countries because unfortunately, capitalism and
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whatever. Comes after is contagious.
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It's exactly like the vital infections.
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It's like and it could be in disguise, it could be hidden
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right. So that's one way.
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It's like, you know, it's, it's basically pushing people to
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think money, to think material, to think, what can I, you know,
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save, what can I have? And, and, and it, it does feed
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into, I don't want to say selfishness, but it is somehow
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it's like, OK, us first and then comes the rest.
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And that could, that's actually, there is a name for it if we're
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talking about our country 1st and then the rest, which is
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nationalism. And by the way, I'm not against
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nationalism as the phrase itself or what it really means, that
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the issue is always anything extreme, anything that is
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polarized. So exclusive nationalism or
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extreme nationalism, this is what's wrong.
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You know, it's totally fine for us to, to, to grow up to be dual
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citizens, citizens of our own country, of our own origin and
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have that sense of belonging, that sense of pride in our
21:35
heritage, in our roots and feeling that we want to give
21:39
back to our, you know, country and our roots.
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Nonetheless, it's also great to be a dual citizen meeting a
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global citizen. So nationalism means that I, you
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know, have that sense of belonging, that I do love my
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country, that this is from my perspective.
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But the issue is that exclusive nationalism, meaning that my
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nation is first at the expense of anything that would happen in
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the world, even if the whole world is falling apart just
22:08
because of my country, you know, or just because I believe that,
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yeah, that's the best situation. That's the best thing to happen
22:15
because my country comes first and then the whole world can,
22:19
you know, go on fire. It doesn't matter.
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So that's that's the exclusive nationalism.
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And then also there is a polar side to being a global citizen,
22:32
which is the extreme globalism as well, which means that I'll
22:36
completely ignore the national identity, I'll completely ignore
22:40
the culture, you know, I'll ignore anything that makes my
22:45
nation like unique in a way. And, and I'll just focus
22:51
completely on the universalism sort of.
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So in my humble opinion, I feel that if we had a balanced
22:59
approach, that dual identity where we can be proud of our
23:04
nation and feel responsible to the wider world and keep
23:08
bringing that to whatever we're doing as dual citizens, this
23:13
will definitely bring things into perspective.
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It it will create that balanced path.
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We can call it, oh, sorry, like cosmopolitan patriotism.
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It's like being rooted in our culture, but we're upholding
23:32
universal values. We're being global citizens in
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the same time and we're looking at local issues and we're also
23:39
seeing how can it correlate with global issues.
23:43
We're seeing how can there be smart solutions that can tackle
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both, you know, things like that.
23:52
I totally agree with you, Reem. I think that the balanced
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approach that you're speaking to in in other terms like you don't
24:01
know this about me, but I'm also a practicing Buddhist of the
24:06
international organization called the Soka Gaga
24:08
International. But, you know, in Buddhist
24:10
terms, there'd be considered like the middle way, so never to
24:14
go in one extreme over the other.
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I think it's really important. And I found what you said about
24:20
the kind of like describing what that balanced approach is, being
24:23
that, you know, it does come from a rooted sense of like, you
24:26
know, you were proud of the the culture, right, that you came
24:29
from right in the nation where you were born.
24:33
But then you also feel this responsibility for the wider
24:37
world, right? Understanding the
24:38
interconnectedness of various actions, especially in the times
24:42
that we're living in where it's, you know, instantaneous, right?
24:46
One post goes out, and then the world kind of changes.
24:50
You know, one threat goes out. And the compounding fear that
24:53
we've been experiencing for who knows how long is suddenly
24:57
heightened to a place where now, Pete, like, words like World War
25:01
three get, you know, tossed around.
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And it's very serious. So in that in that sense, my
25:08
question is how do we get to that place where I so I think
25:12
people feeling like really proud of their nation.
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I don't know if that's like, I, you know, that's, that's part of
25:19
the whole like nation building project that I think countries
25:22
know what to do in terms of approaching that, right?
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It can be bound up through like, you know, the mythology of it,
25:30
right? The figures, the, the, the, the
25:33
even sports and the, you know, cultural output of, of that
25:37
country. But what about making people
25:39
feel responsible for the wider world?
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I feel like that's really complicated.
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And so how, how do you, yeah, how do you, like, understand
25:47
what we need to do as far as getting people to take
25:50
responsibility? Because, you know, people don't
25:52
even want to take responsibility over like small things like, you
25:55
know, like who didn't take out the trash, let alone the bigger,
25:59
you know, international kind of, you know, things that we see
26:03
taking place. Yeah.
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You mentioned 2 amazing things that I would love to discuss.
26:09
The first, by the way, is that you tapped a little bit into the
26:12
social media and the power of social media and its impact on
26:15
the global citizenship. And this is something that I'll,
26:19
you know, share a couple of key points after I answer your main
26:25
question, which is how can we strive as global citizens,
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right? So I think or, or how can we
26:33
start if we did not think of ourselves yet as global
26:36
citizens? I think the first very important
26:39
step is self-awareness, you know, looking into our own
26:43
values, looking into the privileges, the biases that we
26:47
have, specifically the implicit, the implicit or the unconscious
26:51
biases. We all have these implicit
26:54
biases and unconscious biases one way or another, right?
26:57
So revisiting those biases and seeing whether they are
27:01
hindering us from becoming those global citizens that we want or
27:05
not. And I think that this is
27:07
happening nowadays worldwide. We can see it everywhere, people
27:12
even that we would never think it would be possible for them to
27:17
be global citizens are becoming global citizens and very strong
27:21
global citizens that advocate for others and and that speak up
27:25
and that are I always like this that are the voice for the
27:28
voiceless. So that's the very first thing
27:32
It's it's it's the self-awareness.
27:34
It's also, you know, looking into or looking outside of our
27:42
bubbles that we're living in, because we tend to grow in a
27:48
bubble somehow. It depends on, of course, the
27:50
upbringing of every one of us, but some people tend to grow in
27:54
a bubble, let's say a very small town where everyone looks alike,
28:00
everyone has the same values, everyone does the same thing.
28:03
So then it's shocking when they start seeing other cultures,
28:08
other values, other people that don't look like them.
28:11
So it's just about accepting, you know, that with grace.
28:16
And then the shock will start fading away.
28:18
And let's remember. And that is why I always give
28:21
the benefits of the doubt for like whenever I meet someone and
28:25
then they look at me, oh, she's hijabi or oh, she's a Muslim or
28:28
show. Oh, she's this or that.
28:30
It's just that I, I don't feel offended.
28:34
I try as much as possible to look beyond.
28:38
So it's either that they did not get exposed that much to people
28:42
like me. So they're still in that shock
28:45
phase, you know, And it's like, oh, I don't know what to do with
28:48
her. Like, why is she here?
28:50
Go back to your country or whatever it is, you know.
28:53
But actually, I tried to understand and give them the
28:57
benefit of the doubt. And then it's either that I
28:59
respond with a smile. Most of the time I respond with
29:03
a smile and not necessarily that I have to say anything.
29:06
Or sometimes I take it as an opportunity to open a
29:09
conversation that shows the shared humanity, you know, shows
29:14
that at the end, we're the same. We have the same dream, which is
29:18
to live peace in peace to, to raise our kids in the best way
29:21
possible and if not kids to, to grow healthy, you know, things
29:27
like that. So that's another thing it's,
29:30
it's empathetic listening and being graceful and, and you
29:35
know, learning from the experiences and the voices that
29:40
are different from our own and trying to build bridges instead
29:46
of walls. So fostering that authentic
29:51
connection, you know, across the different cultures in the
29:54
different communities. And what's better place than the
29:57
US? We are a salad bowl, not not a
30:00
melting pot. We are a salad bowl with that
30:04
colorful combination and tapestry of people from
30:08
different origins, different religions, different
30:11
ethnicities. So we are definitely lucky to be
30:14
living in a country that is really cosmopolitan.
30:17
And it is really, you know, bringing together people from
30:21
all over the world, like the Gulf region, for instance, in
30:24
the Gulf, also in, in United Arab Emirates, like in Dubai or
30:28
Qatar and Ohio, find people from different, you know, countries.
30:32
But in the US, it does. It's much more evident.
30:37
So it's the best way to get trained on becoming global
30:41
citizens here in this country. By the way, that's, you know,
30:44
that's basically in a nutshell, like staying self aware,
30:48
listening deeply, you know, deeply to others that are
30:52
different, you know, building bridges, like I said, and not
30:56
walls, staying committed to learning about others, staying
31:02
committed to listening to others, staying committed to
31:06
uplifting others, regardless of the differences between us.
31:10
So all these things are really, really, I feel are very
31:14
important. And this brings me to the second
31:16
point, which I, you know, I told you I wanted to tap into quickly
31:20
and which is actually contributing to the, the
31:26
flourishing of global, global citizenship around the world,
31:29
which is the social media and its impact on global citizenship
31:33
and how it has so many positive impacts that we can see
31:37
nowadays. Like amplifying the voices, you
31:39
know, and like giving the marginalized communities a
31:44
platform to be heard, which was not the case before that, like
31:49
building awareness, right? So basically what the social
31:52
media nowadays is doing is it is it's breaking all these
31:56
geographical barriers. It's, it's exposing every single
32:00
one at the comfort of their own home to the global challenges
32:05
that are out there. You know, the different wars,
32:09
the human rights, the pandemics, the climate change, and Oh my
32:12
God, the friend when it comes to the pandemic or the COVID-19,
32:15
right? And then also, it does help in
32:18
fostering solidarity, right? It's also a great educational
32:25
tool. Nonetheless, this takes me to
32:26
the negatives because unfortunately, even though it's
32:30
an educational tool, there's still a lot of fake news that
32:34
can spread quickly, you know, and sometimes that fake news can
32:38
reinforce the nationalism, the extreme or the exclusive
32:42
nationalism instead of that global unity, if you can.
32:45
And we can see that as well. And it can create that digital
32:50
divided divisiveness. Yeah, right.
32:54
Divisiveness, where you know it, it can.
33:01
It can increase the gap instead of bringing people together.
33:05
In addition to that, unfortunately still until this
33:08
day, not necessarily that everyone has equal access to the
33:12
Internet, right? This does increase the
33:16
inequality when it comes to whose voices are are heard
33:19
versus who are not. And that is why I really
33:22
appreciate those influencers or people that go above and beyond
33:26
and try to identify those communities and go with their
33:30
resources and their privilege in order to again be the voice of
33:34
the voiceless. So yeah, wow, thank you so much,
33:38
Room. There's so much that you just
33:41
shared and, and like, I feel like there's like two different
33:44
kind of like big, big areas, right?
33:46
One about, yeah, striving towards being a global citizen
33:51
and, and what what are some of the like to do's for us to to
33:55
get to that point and to really like have that be like embodied
33:58
right within our our actions, not just the words, but really
34:02
following through and yeah and then the social media pieces is
34:08
huge. So let me first go back to what
34:10
you shared about the yeah, becoming a global citizen.
34:14
And, you know, you started with self-awareness.
34:17
And I think, yes, definitely wanting to understand what else,
34:24
like, like, how am I, how am I operating within, you know, this
34:28
environment? Because, you know, it's, it's
34:30
not like it's our own reality, but there's so many, right,
34:34
different ways in which people are experiencing their reality,
34:38
while, you know, also kind of constrained by certain
34:43
structural things going on that maybe we're all feeling, but to
34:47
varying different extents. And I think what you talked
34:52
about in terms of like the differences that we come up
34:55
against when we look outside of the bubble, let's say, you know,
35:01
just to to not like shy away from that or to fear it, But you
35:05
said to accept these differences with grace.
35:09
That really resonated with me. That and then also you saying
35:12
that like, you know, when, when you encountered, you know,
35:14
people kind of commenting about the differences they saw just in
35:18
your, you know, physical appearance, like wearing a hijab
35:21
and making certain judgments, right, Based off of just that
35:26
simple fact. You said that you, you kind of
35:29
combat that. Well, you didn't use the word
35:30
combat, but you, you address it with a smile.
35:33
And I think that's just so it's so simple, but very profound.
35:37
And and I think it has to come from a genuine place because
35:40
you're not doing like a like a smirk right here, but it's
35:43
coming from a good place, right? Yeah, You're like genuinely, I,
35:46
I want to extend you disgrace. And it's up to you whether you
35:51
reciprocate that, right? Whether you extend your hand in
35:54
return. And so, you know, I, I was
35:57
thinking about, you know, I kind of grew up in a very much like a
36:01
bubble kind of space where, I mean, there was like ethnic
36:06
diversity, right? People kind of coming here and,
36:09
you know, from different countries.
36:11
And, but, but there was like this kind of cultural
36:13
assimilation of process that was just, it just very much felt
36:17
like, Oh yeah, here we are in like the suburbs of like Los
36:21
Angeles, what we affectionately call the South Bay.
36:24
And it's, you know, it, I don't know it, there's a certain same
36:28
E kind of quality and certain similar aspiration and certain
36:32
kind of again, like just bubble effect.
36:35
And it wasn't until I left the bubble and started traveling and
36:39
and living in different countries where suddenly I was
36:43
confronted with, you know, pretty major differences, stark
36:47
realities that I hadn't seen before.
36:51
But that was all very uncomfortable and sometimes led
36:55
me to be very angry with that particular culture.
37:00
Sometimes it left me very angry with the culture that I came
37:03
from. It left me confused.
37:07
It produced a lot of emotions that I think a lot of people
37:10
would say is, you know, it summed up in one word change.
37:14
But a lot of people don't like to change, you know, and, and
37:18
so, yeah, what what kind of like advice or encouragement would
37:23
you have for those who you really are encouraging to like,
37:27
you know, set forth on this path of change towards becoming more
37:32
self aware towards you looking or walking outside of that
37:36
bubble? Yeah.
37:38
What what do you, what would you tell someone just on the street
37:42
in terms of how to how to do that?
37:44
Because I know for me, like being surrounded by people who
37:48
had done it already was a big part of me just wanting to go
37:51
abroad. But then, you know, I took a
37:53
very dramatic way of like just living in South America for
37:56
seven years. It's dramatic.
37:58
People don't always do that. So for those who are still in
38:01
the bubble, like, what would you tell them?
38:07
I would tell. Them first of all, that they are
38:10
extremely brave to be thinking of changing.
38:14
So they have to be proud of themselves, even if they did not
38:17
yet think that much. I'll give them that because
38:20
hopefully that will push them. Yes, I'm brave, I can change,
38:24
you know, and I would tell them that one thing they can do is
38:32
keep practicing empathy on a daily basis, meaning, you know,
38:39
whenever because we go out every day almost right and whenever we
38:46
look right or left, we will see different people and not
38:50
necessarily that everyone will look like us, right?
38:52
Actually, it's a it's very rare that we will be in a community
38:57
where everyone looks the same, everyone from the same race,
39:00
ethnicity. So one thing I always try to do
39:04
is whenever I'm like, you know, let's say on a, in a traffic
39:09
light or whenever I'm walking or whenever I'm in a mall, I just
39:13
like to skim, you know, and look around and see the different
39:17
people and, and, you know, see how they're carrying themselves.
39:20
Meaning not in a judgmental way, but you can see that everyone
39:26
has their own battles. You can see people thinking
39:30
consumed or talking to their kids or doing this or doing
39:33
that. And I did throughout the years
39:37
train myself to do something, which is whenever I look around
39:43
and then I feel that someone is struggling, I send prayers
39:47
towards them. OK, you know what, That person
39:50
looks really tired or sick, or maybe they are in a wheelchair
39:54
or, you know, there's something going on, there's a challenge.
39:57
So I hope that they lead a life which is happy, which is
40:02
fulfilling. I hope that that person, you
40:05
know, passes whatever, you know, something blocks they're facing
40:10
in a smooth way. And and this taught me to.
40:15
Think differently going back to we are human beings.
40:19
It's not like that person is from this face and that person
40:22
is in this with this religion. And that person is, instead of
40:25
looking at the differences, I'm looking at people as a sack of
40:29
emotions and struggles and aspirations and goals and dreams
40:34
and identities, you know, within, but, you know, so, so
40:37
that's, that's, that's one very important thing is to keep
40:42
reminding ourselves to practice empathy on our day-to-day life
40:45
and, and to make those conscious choices, you know, whenever we
40:54
do something and it and, and those choices need to showcase
41:01
our responsibility towards each others as human beings.
41:06
And other things that would make it a little bit easier for
41:10
anyone who wants to put the global citizenship mindset hat
41:15
on as well is to don't take it as a lump sum.
41:21
OK, I have to. It's, it's all or none.
41:23
It's not the case. I mean, it, it's a gradual
41:26
process. You know, us being global
41:28
citizens is a gradual process and it starts by us acting
41:33
locally, right? And ensuring that, OK, whatever
41:38
we're doing locally, we one way or another have a global impact
41:42
and patting ourselves on the, you know, back and being kind to
41:46
ourselves that we are contributing to the global world
41:50
one way or another through our local actions.
41:53
As long as it's intentional and as long as it's meant for,
41:58
hopefully at the end, you know, the global impact.
42:03
And of course, the most important thing is not to keep
42:07
isolating ourselves and keep staying in that bubble.
42:11
We need to stay informed. We need to identify channels,
42:19
whether it's, you know, media channels or, or social media
42:23
platforms or people specific influencers that we trust that
42:27
are known to be objective and not subjective.
42:29
We need to identify educational channels and routes that will
42:34
help us in staying informed about the different global
42:37
challenges that are being faced on a daily basis.
42:40
You know, we need to see beyond the borders.
42:42
We need to push ourselves to in order to be true global
42:47
citizens. We need to look at what's beyond
42:49
our country, what's beyond those borders and, and understand how
42:55
again, our local actions and even our country's actions can
42:59
shape the world. And, and again, what's better
43:03
example than the United States of America?
43:10
Well, wow, thank you so much, William, based on what you just
43:14
shared, the way that you shared it, I could tell you're a very
43:16
humanistic teacher educator because you started off right,
43:22
right, right from the beginning. Saying it comes with
43:24
acknowledging how, how incredible and how important
43:30
that first step is of wanting to change and, and really praising
43:35
that individual by saying, you know, you are brave for doing
43:39
that. And because without that first
43:42
step, nothing else is going to happen, right.
43:45
So I think that's so, so amazing.
43:47
Practicing empathy, definitely and understanding that people,
43:52
you know, because we know ourselves the best.
43:54
And, you know, I don't know about you, but you know, there's
43:56
definitely a lot of doubts or, you know, you know, questions
44:00
and, you know, complicated emotions.
44:02
I, I, I laughed when you said that people are like sacks of
44:05
emotions. I'm like, yeah, I get that.
44:08
And I, I think your, your action, albeit, you know,
44:13
unnoticed, is, you know, like to, to really send that goodwill
44:19
and like send prayers for those people who might be really
44:23
struggling that day. And, and it's this gradual
44:27
process like you were talking about, of understanding, you
44:31
know, the, the cumulative actions that we take and the
44:35
consistent efforts that we make to maintain that mindset.
44:41
And also to put forth that belief that, yeah, you know, I
44:43
am a goal with this, right? I'm not like, I don't know the
44:47
secretary general of the UN, but but you know, in in my own
44:51
capacity and in my immediate community, like I matter, what I
44:55
do matters and the people that I'm impacting matter.
45:00
So that community side of things I think is, is really, it's
45:03
really important. And another piece too that I
45:06
want to just bring up that I think is really important is the
45:09
word hope. We live in times where I think
45:14
hope seemingly isn't scarce supply, you know, and I say that
45:19
just because of the onslaught of, you know, news that we get
45:22
about what's happening, you know, between, you know, like in
45:26
in international relations, what's what are the things
45:29
happening on social media And maybe even just in our immediate
45:33
environment. Maybe it's a difficult family
45:35
situation. Maybe you just got laid off, you
45:39
know, whole host of things that people can say.
45:42
Oh, we live in hopeless times. What would you say to your or
45:49
what do you say maybe to your students?
45:52
Or I was also thinking of like your, your two teenagers like,
45:56
like what is it that you can offer in terms of like words of
46:00
encouragement that would remind people of like where, where the
46:05
hope is or how to maybe make hope themselves?
46:13
Great question. So when it comes to my teens, I
46:17
always try to share with them that them trying to be the best
46:27
possible within their own capacity and their own
46:30
capabilities will definitely have an impact, a positive
46:35
impact on their surrounding. And again, you know, the same
46:40
thing, the cascade effects, right?
46:42
So, so it's just that it's simple.
46:45
I try to always tell them, you know, to put themselves in the
46:49
shoes of others whenever they are going to do something, say
46:53
something, do a specific action, because that's a very important
46:59
component of humanity is that empathy that, you know, feeling
47:06
for others and thoughtfulness, right?
47:10
And of course, with the limit, it's not like I want them only
47:14
to think of this and then forget themselves because I mean, we
47:17
need to think of others, but we cannot forget ourselves behind,
47:21
right? That's very important.
47:23
It's we need to think of ourselves, build ourselves, be
47:27
satisfied, be fully from within in order to be able to be those
47:34
global citizens that are giving, that are thoughtful, that are,
47:38
you know, shining and radiating when it comes to other people.
47:41
So I always try to tell them to focus on within and, you know,
47:48
and, and try as much as possible to tackle whatever emotions they
47:52
have, speak with us openly, although of course it's not
47:56
always the case. You know, sometimes they like to
47:59
keep things within and then they want to deal with it on
48:02
themselves, like on their own. But it's just knowing it,
48:07
acknowledging their feelings and that whatever negative feelings
48:12
even are valid and working on it.
48:14
And then taking it as a turning point for them to be those
48:18
strong global citizens that can help others.
48:21
And one thing that I always share is we rise by lifting
48:25
others up. So it's not about competing with
48:29
others, it's about competing with ourselves.
48:32
It's about us tomorrow being a better version of us today and
48:37
so on. And when we compete with
48:39
ourselves in a good and healthy way, it will create a better us
48:44
on a daily basis. And that better us will create a
48:47
better society, will create a better environment, will create
48:50
that those global citizens that we need in this world, global
48:54
citizens that are thoughtful and kind and they do not hold
48:58
grudges. They do not hold hate.
49:00
They do not hold that fierce competition that I want to be
49:03
there, I want to show. And everyone else is Oh no, I
49:06
need to suppress all the other voices.
49:08
So that's in a nutshell what I can do with or what I usually do
49:13
with my kids and try to talk to them in a way that not to be
49:18
boring. I tried to hold myself back
49:21
sometimes from talking a lot because I know that it, you
49:24
know, you know how it is, you know, So that's for my teens.
49:28
And then in regards to my students, especially that I'm
49:31
teaching, you know the clinical site like I'm teaching pre Med,
49:37
pre pharmacy, medical students, nursing students, students, and
49:40
the nursing students are actually the last line of
49:42
defense. I always repeat that in every
49:44
lecture. You are the last line of defense
49:47
for your patients. Remember that.
49:50
And remember that you will deal with patients from different
49:54
ethnicities, from different races from all over the world.
49:59
So remember to put your implicit biases aside and deal with them
50:04
as human beings. Their clinicians are, are a
50:08
great example of global citizens without them knowing.
50:13
And that is why I, you know, as part of my master's degree, I
50:17
mean, in Harvard, I'm working on a framework, it's called human
50:21
framework. And this framework is actually a
50:24
framework that aims at humanizing or, or, or, or
50:30
bringing compassion, empathy and connection into technical
50:34
programs like, you know, like the nursing, like the
50:37
engineering, like the clinical training.
50:39
And it's, it's about creating those classrooms that even
50:44
though they're so rigorous and unfortunately, they do create
50:49
that fierce competition between the different students.
50:51
Unfortunately, it's, it's how it is, You know, it's about
50:56
fostering safe communication, fostering the student autonomy,
51:02
dealing with the student as a human being, a holistic human
51:05
being. It's not like a machine that I'm
51:08
feeding into information and that machine is going to take
51:11
the exam and that's it. So that's basically the, the,
51:15
the human framework. And, and it's human, it's an
51:18
accuracy. So H stands for holding space.
51:21
And this has its specific tools, you know, fostering that
51:25
psychological safety. EU stands for understanding.
51:29
So this means recognizing the learner's context, the type of
51:33
learner, the challenges, the burdens that the learners are
51:36
facing. And this also has specific tools
51:39
that are used. And then the M means make
51:41
meaning when it comes to my courses and the instructional
51:44
design and how I need to connect theory to practice, to bring
51:49
really life examples and things like that.
51:51
And then the A is for ask and adapt.
51:54
And this is very important in the education process because
51:58
it's how, how we seek feedback and how we respond to feedback
52:04
and how we pivot strategies in real time while the student is
52:08
taking the course, not towards the end of the course in order
52:12
for the students to get a sense of, Oh my God, I'm changing real
52:16
time. You know, I'm, I'm advocating
52:19
for myself and for my peers and I'm, I'm contributing to making
52:23
this course better while we're studying it, while we're taking
52:27
it and not towards the end of the course only.
52:29
And then the end, which is the last part is nurturing.
52:33
So this means supporting the holistic development of the
52:37
student from the academic perspective, emotional
52:39
perspective, professional perspective.
52:41
How can we provide them with what's beyond our course?
52:46
So for instance, I'm teaching pharmacology, but one of the
52:48
things that I developed, for instance, was like, OK, here are
52:52
the list of professions that you as nurses can actually or jobs
52:57
that you can work at. It's not necessarily like I'll
53:00
be an RN in a hospital. There are so many other things.
53:04
And also when it comes to emotional, the importance of the
53:07
professional identity formation in the clinical world and in the
53:13
clinical education, right? All these things I do try to put
53:17
into account whenever I deliver my courses and whenever I deal
53:22
with my students. You are truly.
53:25
Just walking the talk because everything that you shared, I,
53:30
I, you know, it's just, it just really exudes that framework
53:34
that you just really wonderfully and like very succinctly
53:38
explained. And I, I love, I love that it,
53:41
it's an acronym. And then each of those like
53:44
letters, like has like it's, there's just so much meaning
53:47
behind each one of them. So your, your, your children and
53:51
your students are very fortunate to have you in their lives
53:54
because, yeah, you, you're showing them how it's done.
53:59
And I think, you know, raising the the next generation, right?
54:03
Really emphasizing like these values from a young age and then
54:07
having that inform bigger decisions, you know, career, but
54:12
then, you know, even in relationships and beyond.
54:16
That's really, I think this the momentum that we need to to
54:20
build towards creating a better world, more peaceful world.
54:24
So, so thank you so much, Reem and I unfortunately, we are
54:29
coming to the end of our conversation.
54:31
It's been such a delight and joy to have you.
54:34
And I wanted to ask one final question, which is a book
54:38
recommendation or movie recommendation.
54:41
OK, so. In regards to let's see, let me
54:46
choose a movie. So there are actually a couple
54:49
of movies that I really like and one of them is Rule Breakers and
54:56
that's a new movie. Actually there there's a new
54:59
platform called Angel. I'm not sure if you heard of it.
55:03
It it does Like they have great movies.
55:08
They're all, you know, they all have missions.
55:11
Most of them are true stories. So the rule Breakers is a movie
55:15
that talks about Afghani girls and then that role model who had
55:24
AI think a robotics startup and how she encouraged those Afghani
55:27
girls to participate in the, you know, the, the, the, the global
55:34
competition and how they won at the end.
55:36
So this and and she see collaboration and she seeks help
55:41
from people in different countries and I think the US was
55:46
one of them. So the reason why I feel that
55:49
this is a movie that is, you know, connected with global
55:52
citizenship is the cross cultural collaboration, which is
55:56
one of the very important cornerstones when it comes to
56:00
global citizenship, right and and mentorship.
56:05
Another thing is breaking the barriers, right, when it comes
56:08
to education, when it comes to gender equality, when it comes
56:11
to innovation. That's another thing that this
56:14
movie did focus the spotlight on.
56:16
And the most important thing is how to amplify the marginalized
56:21
voices that we were discussing before and how to light or focus
56:27
the spotlight or to highlight the struggle for the right to
56:31
learn, the right to thrive, the right to go beyond our bubbles
56:35
like we were discussing. So that's the first movie.
56:38
The second is Patcha Adams. And you know, you remember
56:42
Patcha. Have you watched it?
56:43
It's Robin Williams. It's a beautiful movie.
56:46
And the reason why I love it is that it, it, it focuses or sheds
56:51
the, on the like, on the, the importance of empathy, dignity
56:56
and compassion, you know, or compassionate care when it comes
56:59
to healthcare, which is something that is globally,
57:02
right? And it does advocate for
57:04
accessibility when it comes to healthcare.
57:07
And again, this is another thing that we need globally as a
57:11
global outreach, right? And it looked into, you know,
57:16
challenging the status quo or the systemic indifferences and,
57:21
and it looked into reimagining medicine in a way that is
57:26
inclusive. So that is why I love Patch
57:29
Adams as well. Love Patch Adams as well.
57:33
Yeah, that's Robin Williams is just such an amazing actor to
57:38
convey that emotion and the heart behind the the profession.
57:44
And then I, I haven't heard of Rule Breakers, but I'm looking
57:46
forward to to checking it out. So thank you so much for those
57:50
two wonderful movie recommendations.
57:52
I mean, and again, I'm just so happy that we had this
57:55
opportunity to connect and it's been very insightful, very
57:59
encouraging. I hope you feel the same.
58:02
And I wanted to give the last words to you as we we wrap up.
58:05
So, any final thoughts? First of all, I.
58:08
Would really like to thank you, Scott, for, you know, inviting
58:11
me to your amazing, you know, platform.
58:14
And may you always be a voice for the voiceless because
58:18
apparently I can see that and, you know, a source of
58:22
inspiration for many. And and may we see more and more
58:28
global citizens around the world that bring people together
58:32
instead of divide people. And only then will we see a
58:38
better world, a better environment.
58:40
And only then will we be stronger stewards of this
58:44
environment in this world. And thank you so much.