Latest / Brand Insiders / Beyond Luxury: Ori Kafri’s Vision of Human-Centered Hospitality at J.K. Place

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Beyond Luxury: Ori Kafri’s Vision of Human-Centered Hospitality at J.K. Place · Brand Insiders

0:00
SPEAKER_00: All right, so uh we're recording.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: So welcome to a special series from Hospitality Net.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: This is brand new, where we are talking about special brands from around the world that are focusing on doing some very interesting things in hospitality.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is Ori Coffery of JK Place.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Ori, how are you?
0:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh good, Adam.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me here with you uh going through uh this interview.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thanks.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for coming.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: So why don't you give us some background on JK Place?
0:41
SPEAKER_00: How many hotels, where do you see your specialty, particularly within the Italian luxury market?
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh as of now, we have uh three properties.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh one in Capri, another one in Rome, and uh Paris, uh, with some new one uh on the way.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh these three hotels uh we have been in the business since uh uh 22 years now, and we are really focusing ourselves to be in this uh niche market of the boutique hotel.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh boutique hotels which has different meanings in different parts of the world.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh in the US, it's probably in North America more of the concept of design hotel.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, the way we feel about a boutique is more of a bespoke made-to-measure uh hotel.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh so the idea is that to create uh uh a collection of homes where the guests can really immerse themselves into an hospitality which is made for them.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh so it's a one-on-one approach with a with a guest.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh to do this, we need to create an environment which are not too big.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: So we try to keep a room count which is uh uh around uh 30 rooms, uh, with less than 40 is the ideal, in a way that we can continue creating this uh special relationship and uh a unique engagement with our guests.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: So you talk about special relationships, and you mentioned that the first hotel opened 22 years ago.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: And this is a family project.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: You started this business with your father, Jonathan.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh JK, the name of the hotel is my father initial.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh, together with me, there is also Eduardo Savie, a business partner from the very beginning, and also his wife, Paola.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's a family business, uh, definitely.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: It's something which uh uh it's still managed by us uh on a daily basis, and this also probably is uh the guest can feel that is not uh too much of a corporate and is more uh human in the whole project.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, you you mentioned that the word boutique has different meanings in different places, and now there's a term out called photograph, which is corporate entities that are saying their boutique but not really boutique.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: And as I see it is uh hospitality, welcoming people to homes, as you say.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: It needs a family, and family businesses have a very special place in my heart.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering if you could just give us one or two ways that your family and uh your relationship with both your business partners, your your and your father and founding this business is reflected into JK Place to really give an authentic boutique luxury experience.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's really um I mean it's hard to give two examples or in two sentences.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: It's uh um the project uh start, it has to be consistent and coherent uh with who we are and what is the approach we want to take into this uh uh business.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: Um I like to think about JK, uh as I said, uh bespoke made and measure.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: I usually say that big hotel brands are similar to big uh fashion house brands, and then if you want a tailor-made suit, you go to London, seven row go to Naples, and you have a bespoke made and measure suit for you.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: But you need to create a relationship with the tailor.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: The tailor will take your measurement and will see you naked, he will know if you gain one pound or if you lose uh two kilos, he will come after you.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: There is no timing, he will come to the office, he will travel home.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you need the personality to enter into a tailor store and to connect with the with someone.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: You need some knowledge about the fabrics, you need a certain experience.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: So it's not for everyone, it's not even more expensive.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes it's just uh uh, but it's a different way to approach uh how you want to uh dress.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Same thing, I think, with the with hotel.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh once uh our guests experience already all the big fancy, amazing name in hospitality.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Now they do have the personality to say, okay, now I've been there, I've done that, now it's time for me to try to really connect to the place, to connect to people.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: So the connection to people, the one-on-one, and everyone in the hotel is just as important.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: You cannot just name uh uh uh one uh person inside the property that is making the difference.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: The difference is uh you know, we all create beautiful uh boxes which are empty and they have no soul and they have no personality if you're not bringing the right people there to bring these places to to life.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh and I think that probably all of us heliers, we have a very similar way of uh describing uh our business, then you know you have to put in place uh all your good uh will and all your good uh uh idea and try to create uh this uh uh environment.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: So you're putting hotels, you have Rome, you have Paris, and uh you have uh Milan opening soon.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: These are some of the most competitive uh marketplaces, even for luxury and boutique.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: There are lots of other hotels that we could call up and do a composite analysis to say, well, it has this, this, this, and this, and this.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: What really differentiates the JK place to get guests who are loyal to JK when visiting those markets?
6:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh it takes uh you know, there is no uh formula that you just can copy and paste and and and and uh it's not a perfect recipe.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh there is a little bit of uh uh I can say of magic.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: There is some uh a lot of mistakes, probably, but there is also probably some genuine sense of hospitality that people then uh appreciate.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: When we when we open the hotel in Paris, uh I mean we are going to the most uh uh complicated hotel market.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh every hotel brand has at least one hotel in Paris, and in Paris they have the uh flagship hotel.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: So it's not just another city, it's a city.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: It's like if you can make it in New York, you can make it anywhere.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: If you can make an hotel in Paris yourself, probably you can really make it anywhere because as you said, there is no more uh the market is uh really saturated with hotels, and there is why do we need one more uh hotel?
7:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh and then we found out that still uh we do have our niche, we do have people that appreciate uh uh our um sense of style, that appreciated our humanity, that they uh love, as I say, to interact with our team.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Um I think the big difference is that even for the guest coming for the very first time, it can feel like you've been always a guest in the house.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: Usually, when you are a very loyal uh guest in one of the big uh hotels that you've been going to this for 20 years, 30 years, of course, everyone knows you by name, they know what you're eating, they know your preferred table, they saw your kids growing up, they know what you like, what you don't like, and they treat you like with a lot of respect, the way should everyone else should be treated.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: But you know, when you have 200 rooms hotel, only 5%, maybe 10% of these uh room counts can get this very loyal, uh coming back uh welcome received uh and they have the VAP, right?
8:42
SPEAKER_01: So the all the hotels have VAP 1, VAP2, the whole different uh scale of VAPs depends uh who booked you and how many times you've been there before, etc.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: etc.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: At JK, we try to do this from the very first time you're arriving at the hotel.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: So from the very first moment you entering this uh hotel, uh you should feel already welcome, uh like you've been always uh a guest.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: So it's little small details, it's not something uh uh completely different.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Um when I was still uh in the progress of opening our first uh hotel, uh Michele Bonan, our designer, the architect that's been with us from the very first day, he gave me a book called The Hip Hotels, Highly Individual Places for Harper Higma, a photographer.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: And it was one of the very first coffee-table books uh before the internet that was taking pictures of uh places around the world, hotels that have strong personality.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: And then I went to, and that's how I discovered the Blakes in London from Anushka Hempel, which was one of the very first uh boutique hotels.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh I discovered Hotel Kost.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh it was the late uh 90s.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: And then I went to Amsterdam uh to see the second Blake's of uh Anushka Hempel, which doesn't exist anymore, and another beautiful guest house called 717.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: And this guest house was only eight rooms, and uh I went there with no reservation, no uh just out of curiosity, I passed by and uh ring the bell to get into the hotel.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: And this gentleman uh welcoming him, uh like uh I was uh Prince Charles coming to the hotel.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: He gave me the most warm and amazing uh welcome.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: He showed me the hotel, he showed me the gave me a picture of the hotel before the renovation, after the renovation, he sat me down, he gave me a map of Amsterdam.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: It's I was there just for a few hours, and it was my first time because I was connecting to New York to visit to see my father.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: And then he gave me a cup of tea, he gave me some cookies.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Outside it was raining, he gave me an umbrella, and when I asked for the check, he said, no, no, no, no, you're my guest.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Say, what do you mean you're a guest?
10:56
SPEAKER_01: I need to pay.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: He said, No, no, no.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh we are a small property, uh boutique uh house with only eight rooms.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: We have no money to spend in advertising, we have no money to do uh publicity, but we can definitely offer a cup of tea or a cup to someone with interest, intrigued, curious, and want to learn what we are doing.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: So maybe next time, well, you will be our guest.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: So you can pay me back the coffee.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, six months later, we called him Hank, Hank de Lucht was his name, and for six months he came, we were traveling back and forth from Amsterdam to Florence when I opened my first hotel back then in 2003, to teach me and my team how to be so generally generous in just offering a coffee.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: And that was a normal gesture that in Italy, but worldwide, I would say, not to offer a coffee, it's a standard worldwide uh way of uh welcome someone to your office, to your home, everywhere.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: But in hotels, never happened to me before to walk into the big hotel names without me and someone offer me a coffee, right?
12:02
SPEAKER_01: Still today in all the JK we have this this approach, which is very simple, very human, and and people feel that's you know it's uh something special.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Just a cup of coffee can really make uh make a difference.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, you mention uh something simple like just a coffee can make a difference.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: And there are larger hotels that are looking at adding very expensive amenities, and um, you know, I'm a big fan of wellness amenities like thermal spas and all that, those can be millions of euros.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: So something so simple like serving coffee and really showing that dedication to service, that that rings true to the core of what hospitality is.
12:49
SPEAKER_00: So I'm on that note, before we segue a little bit, I'm wondering you mentioned that this place was eight rooms that you went to.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Was that part of your inspiration for choosing to make JK around the 30-room count?
13:05
SPEAKER_00: How did you decide on uh to go with a very, very niche number which has some advantages from the service side as well as some potential um challenges?
13:18
SPEAKER_00: How did you decide on that number?
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Um probably because we want to make this uh uh something uh really belong to something we wanted to uh uh to start with.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, my father still today is in a textile business, uh, is not in hotel.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: We had never been in hotel before.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh so we were not looking to open to become hotelier with a 150 rooms hotel.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh so probably it was just a natural feat uh to say let's do something smaller, something that I could really be involved on a day, uh day by day, uh, something more personal.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I think that the choice just was some sort of natural.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: And uh probably in late uh 90s, uh the concept also of the idea of a boutique hotel was uh starting to be um more interesting.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: So my father had been always uh traveling a lot, and probably he noted that uh the small hotels were they could be the next big things, you know.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh and again it's it's a different uh now to think about no internet, but if I think about the Aman, you know, for 20 or something years, they were just a word of mouth, nobody knew about them.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh but they were existing and they were into a strong community of people that they really like uh the idea of traveling in this uh uh hotel size and the tele I mentioned before, hotel blakes or others, uh you know, they were really just word of mouth and very much into the world of people that are in the fashion industry.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Because the fashion uh uh weeks of uh London, the fashion week in Milan, and then it's Paris and it's New York, these people are the they they were and they're still the real trendsetter.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Before it was more, you know, you're going out for dinner, you're meeting someone, and definitely you're not talking about uh politics, you're not talking about religion, you're not talking, you're talking about hotels and restaurant, you know, where you're staying and where you're going for dinner.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: So these two topics are very social, and these people are sharing between them the best places, the best kept secret where to go.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it was also very helpful for us because uh uh we we understood uh and we still think that word of mouth from the very beginning, it's uh we said all the internet and all the social and all the coverage is uh for us by far the most important uh tools.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, each one of our guests uh is automatically our ambassador, he's the one uh uh exiting the hotel and going to share his good and bad experience with his best friends.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: So we really care about this.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, you you mentioned uh Amon as a as a brand that only existed for word of mouth for so long, and the term there is there was Amon junkies.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: So you talk about word of mouth, and I'm wondering now you're saying there's probably JK junkies going around, right?
16:24
SPEAKER_01: I I I wish, right?
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh and and probably aman uh is a perfect example is in terms of uh would you call a man boutique hotels?
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Jumping back uh 15 minutes ago, right?
16:36
SPEAKER_01: They are a man, they're not boutique hotels, they're a man.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: So my my goal, my wish is that JK is JK one day.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: It will not be called the boutique hotel.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: So the whole uh uh idea of uh growing and developing what we're doing is to try also to define ourselves uh as a as a brand which people then recognize what JK stands for without uh giving off the boutique hotel or not boutique hotel, it's just to be a standalone uh brand, right?
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and one other point, if you follow the history of Amon, you know that it was very they were very cautious about how they expanded up until let's say around 15 years ago, the you know, when um Zetcha first founded it, it was very, very, very, very selective about his sites.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: And if you look at the history of JK, uh you had your first hotel that we can get into in Florence, then you had uh Capri opened, I believe, in 2007.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
17:35
SPEAKER_01: Correct, yeah.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: And then Rome in 2000 or no Paris first, right?
17:41
SPEAKER_01: No, first Rome, 2013.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and in 2020 we opened Paris.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Paris.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: So every six years, five, six years, yeah.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's like five, six years, seven years um difference.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: It was was that rate of expansion by design, or was there it just happened naturally that way?
18:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh it happened naturally uh and uh organically, and uh if I have to plan it, and uh my wish and my desire would be probably to make it a little bit faster the old growing of the business, but it takes time.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh it doesn't come overnight, uh a new hotel.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of it's a lot of work.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: Um what can I say?
18:25
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's it's a process.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: When we opened our second hotel in Capri in 2007, and we name it uh JK, uh suddenly we had a brand.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh JK was already somehow uh very well recognized uh when we were with the first property, but the second one, uh besides the location, which is uh one of a kind, we are in Capri in a very unique uh uh settings.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Um but to call the hotel with the same name was something uh uh for us natural.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: For a lot of people, I don't want to say a scandal, but uh when you look at uh most of the hotels uh that are one of a kind, and most of the hotels that are family uh run, own and operated.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we are part of the leading hotel of the world.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: You have maybe 400 hotels.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: How many hotels do you find with the same name?
19:17
SPEAKER_01: You can find a lot of uh family uh that own several hotels but on the same name.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh same with the other collection of uh of hotels.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: So to create a brand out of it, it's something quite uh for us, as I said, it was something natural, but also became uh somehow extraordinary because people recognize uh uh JK.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: What does JK stand for?
19:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the whole idea of small collections as the next big thing is very, very true now, and we're seeing this around the world, not just in in Europe and Italy, where it maybe is more natural because there's a lot of travel.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: So on that note, is you did have a property in Florence, and that was your your first one where you got your start.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Could you tell us about uh your story there and uh and and what happened?
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh that was uh the beginning of uh the project of JK and uh yeah uh yes, I was definitely very uh very young and uh unconscious, and uh uh maybe this is part of the uh success, uh the fact that we were not hotelier, and we started with a white canvas, and we can write our own uh rules.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I opened the hotel, I was 26.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: It means I started the whole project uh when I was 23, 24 years old.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Um so sometimes you need uh to this uh uh gut feeling, so you say you know, to start something just uh um and and it was very special.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: It was very special, it's my hometown, uh uh 20 rooms.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we bought this uh townhouse, which for many years was abandoned in Piazza Santa Maria Novella, and uh we hired this uh amazing uh uh uh designer, uh architect Michele Bonan, which is still today working with us and all the projects that have been very, very important.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: And we created this uh 20 rooms um boutique hotel.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: It was a four-star, it has no restaurant, it has no affiliation.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: It was um uh but we opened the hotel, it was I think March 2003, and two months after, during the fashion week of PT Womo in Florence, I had a Simon Le Bon Duran Duran on the roof terrace of my hotel making an after party, and it was me serving the drinks and calling my friend because we need extra stuff to give me some help.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: And uh it was amazing.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: I would never imagine myself, you know, two months after opening the hotel to have uh Simon LeBon partying uh in in our project.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Property.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: I also right away, as soon as we opened, we saw how important how we've been appreciated by the people I said before from the fashion industry, from the press, editors, journalists, everyone that was coming and visit the property.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: They've been completely impressed by something completely different, you know, the famous out-of-the-box thinking how can someone invest in making a 20-rooms uh hotel.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: Is it uh successful?
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Is it profitable?
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Does it make sense?
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh how do you do your sales?
22:35
SPEAKER_01: How do you do your distribution?
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh, who is running?
22:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, a lot of uh question marks because uh you know we started from zero.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: But then things just uh evolved in a way naturally.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: A few months after we opened the hotel, we had then the opportunity to sell it, and uh we took this opportunity because we thought it was the right uh uh the right things to to do with uh no regrets.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh and lately the hotel was uh rebranded, so it's not anymore part of our uh collection.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but that's still no where things in a way uh started.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: So and being a Florentine born and raised uh uh and being that my first uh hotel, I'm still somehow emotionally attached to it.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's uh the uh now we're looking to the next.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean who who knows, right?
23:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Florence is uh is booming with new new luxury developments as well, it's going through its own uh renaissance, dare I say, for Florence, right?
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, uh Florence is also quite a competitive um market.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh I actually noted that I have a uh a family, a wife, three kids, and not having an hotel in my hometown is actually quite spectacular because uh at some point I leave the office and I go back home, I don't have to worry about uh the hotel anymore.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: When I had the hotel, I had to, I was sleeping literally in the hotel, I was living there for uh for several months.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: There is always uh uh fortunately some guest uh uh to meet, someone to take care of, some problems, uh uh see so you know the fact that you can really switch off uh and go back at uh home, it's it's quite nice.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: But who knows, maybe Froley will be at some point uh uh a new JK.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Let's see.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: Well what's interesting, you you mentioned the the party with Duran Duran on the rooftop, and then that that how how that spreads the word of mouth, it gets media attention.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh the term uh that I would use for that is earned media, where it's not something you're paying for, it's something that you're getting because you've done something special.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: And then you know, you talking back to that eight-room guest house in Amsterdam you visited, and the person explicitly said saying, Oh, we we we don't have any money for marketing, this is how we market, we through word of mouth.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering because from the perspective of an institutional investor, they may look at the at your your your product and they would go, Oh, you only have 20 rooms.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of additional marketing costs that you can't distribute across 200 rooms, 500 rooms.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: So therein the question is how do you properly account for all those undistributed costs that you occur from having 30 rooms at the luxury level because you have to have dedication to staff and all the managers above that?
25:33
SPEAKER_00: How do you do that while still maintaining a business?
25:37
SPEAKER_00: What's the um what's the secret there?
25:41
SPEAKER_01: Um there's no secret, it's just the uh organic uh uh how things evolve.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh so now we are 22 years after.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: So compared to 22 years ago, now for example, we do have a database of very loyal repeat guests, we have a reputation, we are growing the business.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's like for big uh chain uh you know, it's easier to go from uh 10 hotels to 50 or from 50 to 200 than opening your second property, right?
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Or the third property.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: So the beginning is uh of course much more uh challenging and complicated.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it's probably also true that you have uh uh less expectation from uh less staff.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh things are just uh happening uh fortunately very organically.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: Um back in the day, there was probably more, you know, our main uh clientele base is from North America, and uh most of these clients they travel through uh travel agencies, and the American system is very well organized.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: You meet at big travel agencies, you meet with them, you create trust, you create a relationship, they come, they meet you, they see the product, and then eventually they can refer it to their client clientele, and then uh and then is volume out, and then is repeat, and then is loyal.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: And our product is also so different than any other product, which is not for everyone, but the one that's identifies himself uh into JK, then they love to stay a JK.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: So um we try to create such a differentiation as well that uh um it's not just another hotel, it's not just oh, let's go there because it's 10% less expensive, or let's go there because uh I mean it has to be uh a real reason, motivation from the person to decide to stay at JK.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you mentioned travel agents, you've mentioned earlier your partnership with leading hotels, as well as just the word of mouth through niche communities like the fashion, uh fashion community.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Um and this raises the all-important question that everyone uh somewhat wants to know, but they are asking from different angles, which is for seasonality, even in places that have such high travel numbers like Paris and Rome, there's still a seasonality.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: So anyone can fill a hotel in June, July, August.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh, who is you who would you say your customers are in mid-January on a rainy day?
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Um expert travelers.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: So that the one that's already been there, they know what they want, and they have a personality.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And uh that's what we usually uh enjoy to have all year round.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh the ones that are coming by chance, just because they went randomly online without making too many uh studies, and uh they might be also disappointed, you know, because oh, I was looking for uh a pizza place, and now suddenly here you do pasta.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: You do the best pasta, but I want pizza.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Or I was booking sushi, and here you have a steakhouse.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's uh it doesn't matter if your sushi is the best or the steakhouse is the best, we we you are looking for a different kind of uh product.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh so expert travelers are the ones that we really enjoy to welcome and to pamper and to spoil because then from one thing to the other, you know you realize we are all in a small circle of uh friends when the degrees of separation is not six, maybe it's one, maximum two.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: We all know the same people, we all know to the same places, uh uh we share uh so many things in common and it's uh it's a beautiful community.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's very interesting that you can really really become the hosts and develop that community at the 30 room mark versus the 100-room mark.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's in a way it's a sort of uh club without paying a membership up front, right?
30:01
SPEAKER_01: So uh that's what happened.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh you don't need to be a member of uh JKE Club, you just book a room if you find a room, because usually it's very much already booked by the members.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh in Capri is quite unique to see how uh our guests are booking the same room, same date, year after year.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: And they don't change the date and they don't change the room.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: And they think that, and you know, we have 22 rooms right now in Capri.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna add nine new suites in about uh in uh not season 26, but most probably season 27.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: And all the 22 rooms are all different from each other, and there are not two rooms who are alike, and each one of our guests thinks that he has the best room, that's why he doesn't want to change.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: So each one is so much in love, you know, the memories, uh, the the travel, the experience.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, they love what they got, they want this room, same date.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, you you say every room is unique, and that raises the whole idea of style.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: And you know, dare I say it, but Italy is pretty much unrivaled when it comes to style.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: So how are you advancing that conversation?
31:15
SPEAKER_00: You mentioned fashion houses, and it's almost like your hotel is part of the evolving conversation of fashion and art and stewarding that those artistic communities forward.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: Do you do you see yourself in that role?
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh not intentionally.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just a natural part of the thing that we do uh uh on a daily basis.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we are working now to create uh in September we will have our own uh um fragrance, like home fragrance.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh, in these 20 years we've been working with a lot of uh very well-known, extremely respected brands.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: But now we love 20 years after probably to have our own uh perfume to be remembered for JK.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh we do some uh uh fashion, I don't know, some uh hats or a cashmere banket, or we're gonna do some bag camos now.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do these kind of things to create a sort of uh lifestyle, but we're also on a constant on a daily, not daily basis, but almost uh uh also by developing the new project.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: We we continue by creating also spaces and style which evolve and they're part uh of the location where we are setting our hotel.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm very lucky in Mikhail Bonan uh with with the architect.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: We travel to a lot to Paris to the Marché or Pousséopoce on the weekend.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh there's this beautiful uh let's call it flea market where every weekend is different, and we can find some of the most amazing.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh it's a sort of treasure hand, you know.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: We can find a sofa, we can find a chair, table, uh, art, and then we bring it back to Italy, and then we transform it, we do some modification, and then we put in production uh certain chairs or sofa, things that then become part uh of the look and feel of the of the hotel.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh so the design, the sense of style, the art that we um are going to put into the hotel.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's it's definitely something which uh uh our guests appreciate and they relate to.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: And uh, when people say home away from home, when I come to your hotel, I feel like home.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a big fan of these sentences.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: When you travel, you travel want to experience something which is completely different from your home.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I would stay home, right?
33:41
SPEAKER_01: So you travel to have something different, but the sense is uh let's try to be in a place that makes you feel, no, it's that it's more of an inside feeling than not the the visual, right?
33:52
SPEAKER_01: So to make you feel like your home, not that it looks like your home, right?
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Because it's more emotional.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to give you that comfort of home.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: But you mentioned lifestyle, and I have to raise the question about whether you see uh an e-commerce play there, because the home way from home is is people are going to your hotels to be inspired by art, by fashion, by by furniture, by design, and they may want to say, Hey, you know, that that piece there, I really would like to have something like that at home, or to purchase your fragrances and bring them home.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh we are more of a giver.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh if you are hotelier and you do hospitality, you have to be a giver.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: So our preference is uh for free.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh then eventually to also to to try to give a value of the thing that we give for free.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: We might have uh an online uh uh with few items that's uh with a price attack to it so people know that's the free gift, what could be the retail value, uh, and eventually someone that cannot uh no, maybe it's too far away, maybe couldn't find a room, maybe just want to buy something, yes.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Why not uh to buy a little bit of uh memory or a little bit of something from there?
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh so we are definitely looking also to expand some uh shop online for a few things uh for these two reasons.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh because there is also a lot of uh work and passion in creating this few uh items which could be nice memories and nice uh uh yeah for the guest.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: And in the interim you have the bello sguardo, I believe that's the book that you have to really showcase uh everything that you've done.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: So we we name we for our 20 years uh anniversary, we wanted to celebrate ourselves with a book uh which we call the Bello Sguardo, and means in Italian beautiful view, which didn't want to be just an hotel brochure, but more of a coffee-table view with the beautiful views of uh our hotels, but also the location where our hotels are in fact located.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: So a picture of uh Capri, Rome, Paris, some vintage, some new, so an overall uh some emotional uh ideas of our hotels and the story behind JK.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: So yes.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: And then all this comes together where your hotels are now awarded as Michelin keys, the new Michelin guide for hotels, and amongst uh any other um I guess prominent accolades.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: So can you talk to us about these accolades and and and uh the process of of getting them and and what it means to to have that?
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh do you see any sort of relationship between having those keys and uh uplift in terms of interest, bookings, occupancy, uh revenue?
37:06
SPEAKER_00: Anything.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I have to be very careful how I answer this.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: So um every uh I mean there is a many uh awards, many magazines, a lot of uh different uh um uh and it's nice to be recognized, it's nice to know that people are voting for you.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: It's nice to see that small property can still be distinguished in a market which is competitive with a lot of ultra mega big name brands uh that have also budget.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it's of course uh um very, very nice.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh at the same time, so um you cannot just say, okay, so I got the mission stars, I got this award, I've been nominated best of this, best of that, and now stop work.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's even more challenging now, you know, because now even more expectation, uh, the people are judging you more.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: So uh now everyone is much more critic about uh what you're doing, why you're doing it, are you doing it right?
38:10
SPEAKER_01: So you suddenly even more under the microscope of everyone trying to understand uh just not people can there is some jealousy as well, right?
38:19
SPEAKER_01: So maybe people are just waiting to see uh for the next big mistakes.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh so we take uh, of course, all this award with uh great uh honor, but we uh also knowing that it means that now we have uh even to work um more and better and to continue with the same kind of thinking out of the box.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: Not really, I don't want to say out of the box is the thinking.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: The thinking is to try to think with a logical approach of uh the same way from the very beginning.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm an hotel guest, watch I would love how I would love to be treated, what I would love to find, how I would love to be engaged with people.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I try to put the hat of the guest and now walk into the hotel.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, I and I suffer a lot when I'm walking to my hotels because uh you wish uh for perfection, perfection doesn't exist.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh so there is always a lot of work, but but I think it's also good exercise, you know, to keep everyone uh um always uh in the edge of saying no we can always do better.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh then the guests are um you know when the guests are happy, then we are all happy.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, it's uh uh that's our main focus.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh we have to pamper, to spoil, to look after them, and the satisfaction, the enjoyment, the the happiness of making other people happy, that's our biggest uh uh reward at the end of the day.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: So you can have all the stamp of approval, leading hotel, virtuoso, fan hotel resort.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're all great partnership, and we need them and we love them and we support them, but you know, it's the guest living in the hotel, making living experience of the hotel, uh, here the one that we need uh really to focus uh 100% of our uh attention.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: That's the only reason why we are into this business, is uh uh as I usually say about Michelin stars restaurant.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: The stars are the client sitting at the table, cannot be the chef in the stars.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: No, so they are our focus, uh our guests are uh the main uh focus uh of uh all our um energy and where we need to do all the efforts to make uh his experience uh uh special.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh otherwise it's just another another stamp, one more proof, and then and that's it.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Then it's uh flat, you know, there is no emotion.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: So we want uh to create this uh emotions.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you know, the the phrase is resting on your laurels, and what you're essentially saying is that with great uh awards come even greater responsibility to borrow from the Spider-Man comics, I guess, right?
41:05
SPEAKER_00: But it's it's almost like you get a Michelin key, and now the onus is on you to do even better, and that's part of uh the JK Place brand is that you're always continuously improving and perfecting and focusing on the guest experience, never letting any award get in the way of that.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I I read the um Unreasonable Hospitality for William Iron, which I think is a great, great uh inspirational book.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: And there is uh uh something which uh uh very impressed with about uh service being uh black and white.
41:42
SPEAKER_01: You order for something, something is arriving, you want a coffee, coffee is arriving, you ask for the check, the check is arriving.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: That's service.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: Then you can say, you know, the LQA, the leading quality assurance.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: If you did it in 30 seconds, in two seconds, uh, how many no, it's something hospitality, it's uh colorful, right?
42:01
SPEAKER_01: So it's not black and white.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: Hospitality is coming from the heart of the people that are really there to be hospitable, are really host, are there for you, are looking after you, they want your and that's uh priceless.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: That's you cannot really count uh seconds and minutes.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, it's uh and when you find generally people like Henk in Amsterdam that have this uh genuine sense of looking after people, then our job of creating beautiful hotels is very easy.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: You just need to find a lot of people that generally love and are passionate about uh hospitality, then everything else is easy.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: You can make it you can have even uh an hotel which is not that sexy and not that beautiful, and still uh acquire uh a lot of uh uh um people uh and yeah.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Um so we were talking about Michelin as earned media, now there's also social media.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, what are your thoughts on influencers?
43:06
SPEAKER_00: And I say that because there's a lot of love-hate relationship amongst various hotels in terms of how to use them.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: Do you what what what are your beliefs on how to use them to promote your hotel?
43:18
SPEAKER_01: I sometimes I feel my my hotel are empty, uh like a ghost, because I don't see any social media.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh our our hotel guests, they're they don't uh need uh to be seen on uh social media.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean they're discreet, they want privacy, they want anonymously, they just want to enjoy uh where they are and they don't need to share uh too much.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh they want to keep it private for themselves.
43:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh if uh on the other hand, if you think that I might need some million followers to be there to do some picture and to share it, uh I don't know, it's not um our Main uh focus.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm not against it, but it's definitely not part of the f it is isn't yeah, is it's not really us.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's fine.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean ev every brand's different.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: Some brands may need it, right?
44:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh particularly to find a way to compete amongst all the uh the big juggernauts that can spend more and more.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: But you do you do need the good content uh on social media because people nowadays uh they are in the traffic and they check uh about a restaurant, about a brand, about a hotel, about anything.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: And if you have a bad uh uh image on social media, it probably means that also everything else is banned, right?
44:43
SPEAKER_01: So probably it's bad hotel, bad location, bad service, bad quality.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: If you have good quality content, then you give for granted that the result.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: So good location, good hotels, good service, blah blah blah.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: So it has to be consistent as much as possible with everything uh that you are doing.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's more about thinking how to develop uh and to be updated with uh with time and the evolution also of uh this social media because uh before it was nothing, then it was Facebook.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Now Facebook uh it's only for certain people.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: Now you go on Instagram, yeah, but Instagram because me, because I'm a boomer, because my kids are on TikTok, right?
45:20
SPEAKER_01: So who do you want to uh attract?
45:23
SPEAKER_01: Who do you want to and then the storytelling that we're going to have through, and there are certain hotels, certain brands are doing an amazing job, and then they also have to be careful on the other way around because uh I know a few that have amazing uh uh social, and then people are disappointed because uh they were telling a story which is much more of a fancy in the than the reality, so also you know the fiction, if it's uh not the reality, then people are also coming back with uh uh not so happy.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: So great expectations.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: So uh JK Place, they're private, and it's almost like a club without the membership.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to us about what is JK Confidential?
46:09
SPEAKER_01: Oh, JK Confidential is something new uh which um we are trying to uh create now in the next uh uh few weeks, which want to be a way to show to our um guest that JK can share with you information which are hard sometimes to get, uh to trust the people that we are going to connect you with to show that we are in a way influencer.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: We can influence that you know if we share and we tell you, look, go to this restaurant and we interview that restaurateur because we really have a relationship and really trust.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: And and if you are coming to JK and you go to this restaurant, it will be probably look after um better if you just uh so it's I think it's about creating uh trust and loyalty between uh this community.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh so there is so much information um out there, and you need to try to understand where to get the right information, the trustful information.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh so it has to be a mix of uh things, something about it's not so much about the news, it's probably more about a relationship re-established in the community, and so to say people do this, do that.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: So trying to, as I say, to make sure that we can have this uh sense uh of uh legacy and with uh with our guests uh and the local community where we operate.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it makes sense.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's uh it's a concierge network that has a lot of uh a lot of community feel to it.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that is launching now, and to segue into our uh and end part of our conversation here, let's talk about the future of JK.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh you have JK Confidential coming out soon.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Where do you see JK place in the next five years?
48:11
SPEAKER_01: So um we are opening uh a new hotel in Milan, right?
48:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh so in uh in a few months, but a few months means already next year.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh 40 rooms uh uh will be the biggest JK ever, 40 rooms, still very small, but the location is uh uh quite unbeatable uh via Borgo Spesso, which means uh via Monte Napoleone, right in the very heart of the fashion district of uh of Milan.
48:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh really amazing.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh we can't wait.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh we have the expansion of the hotel in Capri that I mentioned before with these nine new suites.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh and we have uh the um in autumn, in a few months, we are opening a new concept in Rome, uh not too far from where the hotel is located now, uh one block away.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be called Casa JK.
49:06
SPEAKER_01: It's a palazzo, a standalone building uh that instead of making uh rooms or suites, we decide to make residences.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: So 15 residences, uh one five.
49:18
SPEAKER_01: Each one is about uh 200 square meters, so 2,000 square feet, uh, two bedrooms, two bath, uh kitchen, living room, and you can come for one night, uh, but most probably people were they will look for some extended stay.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: And it's a leading hotel of the world.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: So it's a restaurant, it's a bar, it's a gym, lounge, so it's a fully hotel.
49:40
SPEAKER_01: But instead of uh be welcome into an hotel room, you will be welcome into an apartment, and so you have much more space, uh, much more freedom of uh deciding how to use this space, and I think it's an evolution of what we've been doing until now in the hotel.
49:55
SPEAKER_01: So JK, as I said before, might be have the feeling of a house.
49:59
SPEAKER_01: Now we really give you a residence.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: So now you can really look to stay for a longer period of time, have a chef coming home, doing your meetings, uh, traveling with the kids.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, there is so much more uh to be done.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: And these three new projects are happening in the next so three months, six months, one year.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: So in the next 18 months, I would say that's in a way we're still doubling our small size.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, right now we have 78 rooms altogether, so we are actually doubling our size.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: And uh constantly we are talking to people, uh developers, um owners of different to try to grow uh our uh brand.
50:43
SPEAKER_01: And uh you know, I'm talking to 100 people uh to try to finalize one deal.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh unfortunately it's no no-no a lot of the time because we are really very uh focused and determinated to not only uh grow and open more hotels, but to make it in the right location, to make it profitable, because it's not an exercise, uh uh it's not a collection, right?
51:08
SPEAKER_01: It's not only passion, which is a big passion, but it has to be also a profitable business.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh so we have to do things uh in a certain order and criteria.
51:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh even if you know I wish I could do a little bit faster, but uh uh most important that we can do it uh properly.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh well you mentioned Casa JK, and this is the big trend towards branded residences.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of other luxury brands are involved in branded residences.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: So the future of luxury hospitality, do you see branded residences continuing on their trajectory uh where they currently are?
51:50
SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna keep growing?
51:51
SPEAKER_00: How is that gonna evolve?
51:52
SPEAKER_00: Do you see?
51:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: Uh unfortunately, yes.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: And they say unfortunately, because they think that they're doing much more business in doing real estate than doing hotels.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: So unfortunately, they're gonna lose uh their hotel uh DNA.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: And um, in a way it's a shame because they're becoming really more of a real estate uh brand and uh co-developers uh and their interest uh is becoming primarily to make uh their profit out of this instead of uh focusing on opening hotels, which should be their main uh aim and their main uh business.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I see them growing, but um a little bit disappointed in a way.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yes, c cautiously optimistic, uh I guess.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you know, yeah, I understand that developers just want to develop and then exit, right?
52:43
SPEAKER_00: They don't really want to do the operations, and operations is very, very tough for hotels.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: It's you know, uh hospitals.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but yeah, but these developers are calling this uh hotel brands because they gain their reputation by being hotelier.
53:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: Now, if these brands are not opening any more hotels and they're opening in uh small hotels in a big uh residential project, uh it means that's now the priorities are different.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and then uh in the long term or medium term or short term, they will dilute also the value, not the value, but the uh guest experience.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: Right.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: So that's yeah.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, and it makes it makes total sense, and I think that that play favors small collections such as JK Place because you are very, very meticulous about every project you undertake, so that way you can preserve the brand at every single step.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh we we hope so, but uh uh I also I also hope that we can uh grow and make also some uh residential because it's it's it's true that uh to make uh uh a project nowadays you do need a residential component uh because only by the sales uh of uh hotels rooms per night it's hard uh to make the economics uh work uh for the developer.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: So you do need uh most of the time the residential component uh that's help the developer to rebalance uh the uh PL.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, to get that recapture, as they say.
54:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: So is there any other trends that you see uh to close out our conversation here?
54:34
SPEAKER_00: Um what what's what's the future hold in general and uh what what do you envision for the future of luxury hospitality?
54:43
SPEAKER_01: Um I I just hope to see um, as we already see, more uh people uh getting into the business, not to be afraid of this uh gigantic uh uh big corporation, uh, because that's one big, I mean the huge part, uh the biggest part of business is uh by them.
55:08
SPEAKER_01: But there's still room for outsider to come into this uh uh field to play their game.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: Just make sure you're coming with a true, real uh spirit, idea, not copy and paste from someone else.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh if you come with your own idea, uh with your own vision, uh definitely I think there is uh uh successful people that can make it uh you know can make successful uh uh hotels.
55:35
SPEAKER_01: So hopefully.
55:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, that's a very hopeful message to finish off.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: There's always room for new and exciting people to come into this field and to help innovate what hospitality is all about.
55:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you say it perfectly.
55:48
SPEAKER_01: I say it much better than you.
55:49
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
55:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, the next time we do an interview, it'll be in Italian, so that way it'll be easier.
55:56
SPEAKER_00: But uh, thank you so much for your time.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: It's been a delightful conversation, and uh thank you for telling us all about what JK Pless is uh JK Place is doing.
56:06
SPEAKER_00: And again, thanks for being a hospitality innovator.
56:09
SPEAKER_01: All right, thank you so much.
56:10
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having us.