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Thomas Nagy and Paul Meenan address the perception of the Electrician on-site · The Electrical Show

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The Electrical Show with Thomas Najie sponsored by Bosch Professional Powerful power tools to measuring
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tools, an experts accessories. Welcome to the Electrical Show here on Fixed Radio
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with Bosch Professional. I am Thomas Nagie and alongside me once again is the
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brilliant Paul Meaning here to join us for one more show. Now on today's
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show, this is the show we actually I think we're going to enjoy this
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one, Paul. We're talking about the perception of the humble electrician and the
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construction industry. It's we hear it all the time. Apparently electricians are minted.
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We're load did we drive? We drive top of the range cars.
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We've got fifty pound notes coming out of our wallets. And what we're going
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to discuss is what is You're such a dead band. I'm sorry. I
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wish you could see his face. It's just going to be a rant.
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Yeah, I'm sorry. But what is the reality is what we're going to
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be asking. What is a spark and is there a distinction between a spark
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and an electrician? And what's the end from all from all of this protecting
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the title of an electrician, to protect our bottom line and even our Mental
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Health Fix Radio. Time to crack on. This is the Electrical Show.
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I'm Thomas Nagie with a good friend Paul mean in here and we're discussing the
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perception of the electrician here in the UK. Now, I guess the first
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question, what is an electrician? What can you define? In your opinion?
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Who can credibly give themselves that title electrician? Who can give themselves that
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title? I think the title of electrician? I mean, I know because
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broad Well parts of the industry are trying to protect the title into Scotland's selected
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to scott asstiate their campaigning to protect it, which I actually fully support,
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so do I So hunting trouble is, I'm going to be honest and I
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may upset a lot of our listeners, but I do think that the the
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what is an electrician nowadays is a rare breed. I think there is a
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lesser percentage that can consider myself electricians rather than sparks. Do you want to
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shove you it isn't? I mean, sort of upset in the apple cart
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because I think I know are you going with this? I started? And
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you'll know this because you've watched my journey in the last sort of eighteen,
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probably in the last twelve months of leveling up on other types of electrical work.
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And when I stepped into sort of your side of the electrical world,
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I walked into it and apptually, straight up, I walked into it thinking,
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all right, this isn't too bad. I've got this. I've got
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this. I've done it for twelve months now, and honestly, my eyes
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are so open as to how underskilled the industry is. It's absolutely like do
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you know what I mean? Like you realize actually how just the biggest challenge
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in the industry is as tradesman. And I'm guilty of this. We don't
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know that, we don't know where we are, and it's I've been on
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a journey for over twenty five years just trying to understand where my own level
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of skills, knowledge, etc. Is. One of the best things that's
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ever been said to me by so many who I hold very dearly was he
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turned around to me one day, older than me, obviously, and he
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said, he said, there's a difference between a sparks and electrician. And
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I was like, okay, well, what do you mean there's a difference
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between the sparks and electrician? And he said to me, he said,
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the sparks will do what he's told. You give him a task, you'll
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go and do it. Doesn't mean you'll do it badly, but he'll go
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and do it. Electrician will think for himself. I don't need to hold
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his hand. There was just super quickly going off topic. It is a
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topic. There are four stages of competence. There's what was it? It
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was so good the way he explained it. Competidence, there's conscious competence,
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and yeah, there's there is four stage. If just google four stages a
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competency, there's a great model and you will fit in every single phase of
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it. Because there's certain stuff I don't know which means I'm I'm consciously incompetent.
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Yeah, but there's obviously that really do know, and I'm consciously competent.
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I can do it without think. That is well worth a google.
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The four stages a competency really worth a Google. It's worth looking at electrician
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versus electrical contract. Is there a different than there's different? So? Is
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there? I don't think so. I think in the end goal is everybody
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goes out to feed their family and earn money. I think electrical contractors can
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be just as greedy as the electrician at the end of the day. But
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I think most electrical contractors will always say And I was at an electrio a
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couple of weeks ago, and I had loads of people coming up to me
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saying I can't find good sparks. And I was like, why are you
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looking for sparks. Why don't you look for electricians And the guy said oh,
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and he said, well, well they cost me more. And I
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said, but they save you more in the long run. Because let's be
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perfect, Frank, if I if I went out onto a site and I
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did conduct work for four to five years, I'm a sparks. I can
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do conjuct work. Asked me to wire a complex panel. No, but
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apparently we're electricians so we can do everything, and we're super rich, apparently
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calling all the other we're gonna be getting that into the next linker. We're
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gonna start talking about that. But just going back to say you said a
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second ago, the Scottish side of the pond, they're talking about making an
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electrician to protected title. You think I should be done here. I do.
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The trouble is, there's a lot of if you could sum up some
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of the difficult conversations we need to have in this industry. There is the
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industry for many years has not controlled the people entering it and hence have contributed
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to the race to the bottom where good hard working tradesmen are being outpriced by
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people who don't know that they don't know it kind of it's a really good
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way of putting it. Actually it is people are being underprised for people who
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don't know that they don't know. The trouble is, if you were to
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regulate the electrical industry, you would have to escort people from the industry.
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Is very difficult. Yeah, so if you license to practice and you made
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it law, there are a lot of people who wouldn't achieve that. You
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would then create a new race to how do we get round it? And
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the trouble is, I've always said this, everybody, everybody deserves to go
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to work in in their family, but not when you put risk electrocuting people
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and burning people's houses down. This is why I always use when I when
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I talk about is somebody competent? I use a term called skate or skateel
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and its skills, knowledge ability, training, experience and limitation. If you
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have a conversation around at what skills do you have? What knowledge do you
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have? What abilities our attitude you have? What training do you have,
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do you have any underpinning qualifications you know? Do you have what experience?
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Is it six weeks or is it six years? And also can you do
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something? And more importantly, tell me what you can't do, because for
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me, when I work with people, I want to know what they can't
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do rather than what they can, because then I can help fill in the
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gaps and make sure that my team have got the right skill set. The
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Electrical Show on Fixed Radio I am Thomas Nargie with Paul Meenan and we are
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taking a dive into the perception of electricians in the UK. So if you've
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just tuned in, don't worry. We are now getting into the nitty gritty
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of it. So let's let's address some of these stereotypes that electricians phase from
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other trades on side. So the first one probably the most the most common
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one. We're all absolutely loaded, make more money than everyone else's side.
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Yeah I might call BS on that, sorry, but let's be clear here.
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I spent most of my twenties working days and nights just so I could
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afford a deposit for a house. I have worked on jobs where the money
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has been excellent, and all I've come out with is enough to get a
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deposit for a car. I'm in my forties, I drive a Kia.
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Trust me, the money is not great out there. One of things that
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one of the things that infuriated me is I get a electrician sending me job
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adverts from around the country with agencies who are just a cancer to this industry
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because they just take a cut and they get anyone who can just nod onto
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a site. And it's there's a massive problem with agency. I don't get
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wrong. I've met good sparks of an agency and it works for some people.
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But there is a huge, huge problem with how we perceive electricians to
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be stinking rich. We're not, and to be perfect. Frank, I
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am absolutely sick to death. I know, I know this banter, I
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get it, but we're still doing the same banter from twenty thirty years ago.
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And you're not really annoys me when oh yeah, sparks sustinting rich year
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on loads of money. You can earn more on a night shift in certain
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McDonald's branches than an electrician. Can I did hear this room? May yeah,
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it's not roomor you can literally go there and look do the research yourself
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and look at the rates. Tiling is paid more. We are one of
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the lowest paid trades. And because we're the last in you think of a
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construction project, if it's a house, new bill commercial, who are the
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last people on the job the electricians. So if the still work architect,
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cladding, plaster, a bricklayer, plumber have made mistakes, they find the
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money to pay for the mistakes. And what do they take off? They
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go right. The electricians will just nail them down to the cheapest possible and
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they don't care because as long as the lights are on, they don't give
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a damn. And when the electrician turns up, he's branded super rich.
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And we've got this stupid problem where the banter is now harming the perception of
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the electrician, and it is harming the mental health for electricians. It winds
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me up, and I know people it winds up as well. Sorry,
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I could rant about this for hours. No, you're on a passionate streak
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there, just I'm sick of it. I'm sick of seeing these videos of
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blokes blowing the nose with fifty pound notes. I'm not so this is our
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stube. I don't mind the bantery ones where you show a spark whose you
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know, let's be honest about nobody cleans up after themselves. It is a
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problem in our trade. It's it's like drug Alex admitting, yes, we've
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got a problem. Electric has got a problem for a clean up. Get
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it ban to all you want, But it does impact people's mental health when
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all you're doing is gay yea, you're stinking itch, you're blowing your nose
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fifty pound notes. You don't need to work, you work a few hours
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here there and anything. We talk as an industry about mental health. Oh
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it's good to talk. Yeah, and we have our little moments. We
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have Mental Health Month, mental Health Day, ment Wealth Week. And yet
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we then go and rip guys to pieces because we think they're stinking rich while
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an actual fact, a lot of the other trades, it's it's survival of
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the fittest out there and the electricians the last. I mean, it's true,
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there are some, to be fair though, there are some good cracks
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out there where you can earn oh phenomenal, Yes, where you can This
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is the whole leveling up thing. If you go if you do an ism,
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why call anism specialism, whether it be anything from centrally eating or in
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battery storage. If you find the right clients and you have the right level
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of confidence and courage to go forward and keep learning, you will find you
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will earn good money, but not ridiculous money. Yet, if there is
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the odd good job there where you'll be on like you know, good few
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hundred quid a shift, and I mean good few hundred quid a shift,
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you can get long hours, and there's work abroad and norsels, so there
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isn't jobs where you're not owning good money. But the general consensus, I'm
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sorry, mate, it is a race to the bottom. We constantly talk
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about as an industry. And because nobody wants to regulate our industry, it
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doesn't get dealt with. And let's bondors about you. Look at the electrical
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instry, it's more tax than it is regulated. One of these I've got
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a little cription to him, just going through the ones that are making me
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chuckle. Apparently we're a little too obsessive when it comes to collecting payments or
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bringing money in. I mean I think that's I don't think there's a problem
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with that, because customers half the time they bump you, and like you
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said, they're bump on the last payment anyway. Yeah, if they haven't
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got the money, I'll be I've witnessed some incredibly toxic and sickening behaviors where
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I'm not going to name names or at any location, but I once watched
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a tradesman get brought in by somebody knowing they didn't have the budget to do
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the work, and then they just basically around the India job and said he
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works over rubbish, I'm not paying you and knocking you, knowing that they
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didn't have the money. When I found out, I went mental and make
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sure the money was found and they got paid. But there is some very
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bad behavior. So if somebody's looking after every pound, good luck to them.
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They may have kids, they may I have a wife that you know,
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everybody's got to live, all right, Well, let's talk about the
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stereotypes apparently around our conduct on side. Next, you're listening to Fix Radio,
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the Builder station Fix Radio. You are listening to the Electrical Show with
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Boss Professional here on Fixed Radio on Thomas Najie and continuing a chat here with
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Paul Meanan and addressing the stereotypes around who we are as a trade. Now,
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let's take some of the common trade. Shall we pull that he's cracking
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his knuckles here, but other trades say we have on site. The first
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one, obviously is we never cleaned up. And that is to an extent,
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there is an element. I mean, it's not there was an element
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truth. It is true because I remember, I remember one of a job
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I did. I never forget. It's like it happened yesterday. I did
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it. It was a bathroom refit. I think it was a can't most
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shaver socket usual bs and I was just in a hurry and I didn't clean
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up any of my mess and I left and I came back the next day,
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and fair play, the plumber absolutely ripped into me, proper, proper,
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unhappy about it, and fair play. I've always cleaned up since that
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date, but another contractor had to give me a proper rollicking before I got
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the message. So there is truth in that. There is a transformation there.
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I if I said that I've always cleaned up, I'd be lying through
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my back teeth. For years and years and years, I never cleaned up,
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I swept everything under the floor, so I did. Now, now
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fast forward twenty years and I'm actually rewarding my own home, and you know
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this story. I am so obsessed with cleaning now because I had a very
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similar experience where I got I got my backside kicked. I now literally when
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I open up any floor wall, I will use a hoover. And I
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on my living room floor, I took twenty eight bags of rubble, and
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it's amazing to ensure smooth passage for anyone who was working there. That was
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clean. I now biblically hoover and clean. But you do realize that if
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you're pricing, how do you price for cleaning up as you go? So
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yeah, I suppose it's compensation. I can't argue with it because we are
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guilty of it. So well, the next one's a good one. Apparently
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we're entitled, and we use other we use other trades holes for our don't
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use any other trades holes, by the way, just to be clear,
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we use other trades holes for our own cables, and we leave cables hanging
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out the walls. I will I will confess to having sneak to plumber's hole
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and put ten milty in earn it. I have done that before, and
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obviously I didn't have to see the plumbers. I just got in the van
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and left, but leaving cables hanging out the wall that I'm sorry, there's
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I did a job a couple is about a year ago now I think it
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wasn't a couple of months ago, good year ago. And I'd marked all
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the ends of my cable, you know, switch wire in out and stuff,
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and I'd left like maybe I don't know, half a foot a foot,
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I say a foot, I'd left a foot and I just marked them
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up. Plaster coming first thing he did, cut them all right back and
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stick them all in the box. Now, of course I turn up a
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week later, all of my cable was not a single mark on, and
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I'm like, I said to the customer, what am I supposed to do?
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Now? And it was like a really complex home. I'm like,
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what am I supposed to do? And we've got a proper argument over it,
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and yeah, but I mean it wasn't alful and the customer was all
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right with it, but that me and the plaster are properly locked horns over
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it. But this is the lack of coordination between trades. I mean,
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now I know you can get like they always recommend you coil up all the
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cables in the boxes, and you can now get those those things that plasters
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can plaster over so they don't damage it. Well, I can hear thousands,
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I can literally hear thousands of plasters or yeah it should have cut them.
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Yeah, yeah, good job. Yeah yeah, well yeah, some
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it depends on the stage as a job, if anybody's planning it and organizing
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it and coordinate, which on a lot of domestic refurbs, there isn't a
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single well unless a laborer who's probably too high to actually know what's going on.
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In my experience, because I said out loud, Sorr, it's just
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my own experience there. Sorry. We carry ourselves like scientists and we're above
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the other trades. Well for the amount of learning that continued development we do
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have to do. Either. There's an element of truth to that. So
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we're going to double down on that one. My first site I ever walked
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on commercial As we walked in, we were getting wolfistled and everyone's going to
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come as a scientists, and I agree with it. To be honest with
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you, you have to go through three years of incredibly hard science and principles
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to understand this thing that you can't really smell or here unless there's a big
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problem. But yeah, it is the most scientific at the trades, and
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you're constantly having to learn. There are fundamental principles in any trade, but
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in our one. Let's be perfect, Frank. We have got to learn
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so much about so much. And if you think about in years ago,
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twenty years ago, and it was domestic, commercial, industrial, do we
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have that anymore or has it expanded massively to systems? Yeah, you're an
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EV installer. You're not a domestic installing or you're an EV installer, you're
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a smart home installer. You're a centrally in controls guy. It's it's gone
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from those three tiers just electrical tiers. No, it's multiple tiers and all
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of it requires some fundamental science. So yeah, if we carry ourselves like
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scientists, that's because we think we are well, just tough. We had
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a vote and we realize that we're amazing. So that vote carries the electrical
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show with Thomas Nagie on fixed radio the Builders Station and Thomas Nagie with Paul
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Meenan and we have talked today about the stereotypes of what an electrician is and
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how that compares with the reality on sites, the reality of what it actually
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is and our experiences and circumstances of that. Now we've got to wrap this
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site because our train is pulling into the station and as we speak. So
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what is the most harmful stereotype that you think we should move away from?
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I think it's the perception that we're stinking rich. I mean mostly good looking,
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is absolutely true. Busly I mean you were bloted, George Clooney.
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Actually, yeah, the one that we're stinking rich. No, not a
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chance. And it's something from twenty thirty years ago that this industry needs to
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just stop and grow up on. All Right, what could electricians do better
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or change? I guess change how we work with other trades. My view
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on that is try and teach the different traiture with I when I worked doing
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central eting mare In and like refurbs of central eating systems, I taught the
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gas engineers how to do the electrics the right way, and in turn,
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they taught me how to help them put their pipes in. So we were
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one team. So if I was late to a job, I'd give them
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some cable, they'd help install it the right way. I think it's just
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being kind to each other. Just help each other out. Man. You've
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all got families, you know. If you all were together, you get
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a job done quicker, you get it done. All right. Well,
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look that's it for today's show. You can download this and all of the
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previous episodes, don't forget. You can download those as podcasts from wherever it
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