Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / "The Psychology of Time" with Prof. Joel Pearson on The Buzz

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"The Psychology of Time" with Prof. Joel Pearson on The Buzz · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Buzz, where we dissect some big scientific issue, especially if it relates
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  to your brain.
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  We try to blow our minds about the nature of our minds with the one and only professor,
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  Joel Pearson, neuroscientist, extraordinaire who runs the Future Minds Lab at the University
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  of New South Wales.
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  Joel, welcome back to the show.
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  Thank you, Josh.
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  Good to see you again.
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  Time.
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  We're talking about today, not the actual ticking of the clock, but the way that it might
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  be.
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  Yeah.
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  Okay.
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  All right.
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  Let's start with the big stuff, then.
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  What is time?
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  So, yeah.
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  So, it's about time perception.
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  So, chronos, chrono perception, right.
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  And so, we have to start with this.
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  One of the, so when we think about the senses, the five senses, we have ears and eyes and
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  things, and we perceive time, but we don't have a sense organs for time.
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  So it seems to be something that the whole brain does.
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  There's no dedicated sense organ, no dedicated brain area.
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  There's not a tiny bit of my brain that's sort of ticking away in the background.
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  Yeah.
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  There's no, there's no, like, these neurons do time perception.
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  It seems to be nature of the whole brain, and it's also, as we'll get to, affected by
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  what your brain, what else your brain is processing.
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  So if you're highly stimulated, if you're highly emotionally aroused or scared, all these
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  things will affect time perception.
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  So it seems to be sort of intimately into woven into what else the brain is doing.
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  Right.
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  It's a double-tasking, if you like, meaning that my, and so presumably when I'm highly
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  aroused or when my brain is doing a lot of work and I'm thinking very quickly, time seems
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  to take longer, normally people report the opposite that time goes by very quickly, but what
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  about the effect of, I'm in a car accident and everything slows down, playing a game
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  of tennis and the ball is coming at me slowly.
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  This controversy around this, so because there was some, some research and people
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  have suggested that it was that time perception as you perceive it is changing in these things.
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  Right.
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  And then there was this, this experiment by David Egelman, where he is a cool experiment.
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  He had people come, first come to lab and then he took them all out to an amusement park
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  in the US, and it's one of these rides where they, they're sort of hanging in a harness
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  and they free fall like 30 meters, they get caught in a net.
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  And they built this little, this rich, wrist watch thing where those, these sort of flickering
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  lights.
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  And the idea was that it was just flickering so fast that you couldn't read the numbers.
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  So if your brain speeds up with all the adrenaline while you're falling, all of a sudden you should
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  be able to read the numbers.
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  That little bit of change in, in brain speed, if you like, should make the numbers readable,
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  you read the numbers while you're falling, bang, good evidence that things change.
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  They did experiment, no one can read the numbers.
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  Just as if they were on the ground.
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  Yeah, it didn't seem to, it was just flickering the numbers, the lights were there, they couldn't
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  read the numbers.
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  Then they did something where they had people estimate how long they're afterwards, how
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  long they're falling for, and then they had the, all of a sudden, stand there and watch
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  other people falling and estimate how long they were falling for.
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  And the estimate, the two estimates were different.
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  Right.
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  So the, the, the subjective estimate was longer, but the, when they estimated their own
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  time that we're falling through the air, it was that 30 something, 36% longer.
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  Right.
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  So they concluded that it's not due to perception changing in real time as the things
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  happening, but it's due to the richness of the memory and the memories laid out differently.
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  And so when we go back and think about things, it's different, right?
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  So if I witness someone else fall, there's no adrenaline, so my memory is just as normal.
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  When I'm in there, my memories laid out differently.
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  So when we think back to the car accident, the thing, or the hitting the tennis ball,
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  we remember it differently.
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  I think it was definitely like slow motion, everything slowed down because my brain was
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  speeding up.
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  But it's inclusion is that, yeah, it's not, it's just a trick of memory.
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  That isn't the, isn't my ability to hit the tennis ball evidence of the fact that something
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  is operating faster in my brain than it would be if I was just looking at the window day
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  dreaming, not necessarily faster.
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  And this is where it's evidence that things are happening that we're living in the
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  past.
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  So we're going to get into this in a second.
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  So your brain's making predictions and it sees the tennis ball or the cricket ball coming,
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  let's say, and it's making a prediction.
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  It doesn't have to wait for it to be here.
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  And then so you already start moving the racket and it's making that prediction before
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  it happens.
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  So that ties into research where you can manipulate something in the lab and you can have an event
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  that happens sort of first and then an event that happens after it in time.
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  And this event that happens after can change your perception of the event that happened
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  before it.
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  Do you mean that in the act of hitting the tennis ball, I'm changing my memory of where
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  the ball was a millisecond ago, or that after the tennis ball, oh, I imagine.
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  Yeah.
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  So the example I was just talking about was more like a specific set up in the lab where
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  you can have things that happen after an event affect the event, which seems to break
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  physics.
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  Such as what?
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  So you can have like a flash and a thing moving on the screen and a flash and another
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  flash.
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  And the second thing, we're talking like 100 milliseconds, we'll affect the first thing,
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  right?
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  In one way.
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  It will change where you saw it or when you saw it or change, you can it'll merge with
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  it.
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  You can do different thing.
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  Can you describe a specific example of an experiment?
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  There's something called a flash lag illusion where you can have like a rotating thing and
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  a thing will flash and you're alive or get messed up.
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  What's another?
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  There's some other.
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  I can't think the name of them, but there are visual illusions like that where you can
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  have things later in time.
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  Another example would be if I do this, he's tapping for people listening to the podcast
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  and watching on YouTube.
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  I'm tapping my foot and my foot at the same time.
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  And we know that the signal from my toe to my brain takes longer than for my nose to
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  my brain.
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  I perceive them perfectly in sync.
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  Right.
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  But that's because your brain adjusts for the fact that it knows that it takes time for
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  it.
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  But that means there's a buffer in the system.
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  That's what I'm getting towards.
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  So we're living in the past.
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  And so if things happen either they should be happening, I should, you know, I should
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  feel the nose tap before, actionally before the foot tap.
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  And there's other.
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  Is it, isn't it because you know that you're tapping your foot and you can see the
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  other people for you?
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  No, other people for you.
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  So if I blindfolded you, and tapped your foot and your nose at the same time, you didn't
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  know that I was going to do it, I'm pretty sure, yeah, you would still feel them happen
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  at the same time.
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  I think so.
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  Yeah.
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  So the nose sensation is being delayed somewhere in your brain.
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  Everything, everything you experience is actually being delayed in your brain.
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  Art officially or just because of the time it takes for your brain work.
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  It takes, it, so it takes even from your eyes, it takes, let's say, 150 milliseconds
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  to 200 milliseconds, the information to be processed, to go back to the, the LGN, to the
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  visual cortex and then it bounces up and the information comes back down.
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  So really we're living in the past by a few hundred milliseconds all the time, right?
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  But that natural delay should differ between the nose and the toe.
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  It gets absorbed within that, that window.
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  If my leg was like four meters long, it wouldn't, that would take too long, right?
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  It wouldn't have the capacity to absorb that.
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  So a snake that's very long, if you tap a snake's tail and then snap it, and then tap
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  a snake, maybe, hopefully not a poisonous snake, like it was really long, long enough to
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  be like it, you know, to take a full second or something for the, or the longer the snake,
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  the more it lives in the past or the longer your leg, the more you live in the past.
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  In other words, so that's what I mean by the buffer being artificial, like the buffer
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  is not just an artifact of the fact that it takes time for the sensation to go from your
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  nose to your brain.
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  It's almost like it's being intentionally delayed from your nose in order to account
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  for the possibility that someone's going to tap you on the foot at the same time.
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  It could be a bit of that.
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  I don't think we know the answer, but that's interesting.
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  That would, that's not really artificial though, what do you mean by artificial?
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  Meaning that your brain is not collecting the information from the nose tap as fast as
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  it possibly could, because if it were, then the nose tap would precede the foot tap.
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  Right.
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  Yeah, or there's just a buffer and you have this binding problem.
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  It's got a brain has to figure out which things go together, right?
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  Which, and so it gets more complicated in actual brain because the parts of my brain,
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  which process the color and the movement, ones here, ones here, ones here,
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  they're all in different parts.
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  And so the communication between those takes some time, but you never perceive the color.
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  You rarely perceive the color before you perceive the motion.
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  Now, you can actually set that up in the lab when you have a quickly changing thing.
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  It's alternating, it's doing this and going like red, green, red, green, red, green.
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  To see that perfectly in sync, you actually need to offset, I think, you need to,
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  you know, delay the color ever so slightly.
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  Oh, is that right?
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  So you can actually set that up.
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  If you, so in other words, for you to see it perfectly, it has to kind of go like red, green.
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  So that not everyone's watching the YouTube, but if you're listening to the podcast,
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  and you're basically saying that if it, in order because you perceive motion before you
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  perceive color, you would need to offset the, no, the color has to lag.
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  I think the motion, you see the motion for change the motion, and then you've got to change
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  the color a little bit afterwards.
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  Interesting.
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  So it's like a misbinding because of all this is all this, all this stuff's happening
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  at different times in the brain because you're on the firing around from different parts
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  of the brain.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Something that it all just comes in and we have this experience of being live and seeing
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  things as if they're consistent things across space and time.
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  But actually it's just a jigsaw puzzle that our brain is piecing together.
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  I mean, a binding problem is a classic conundrum and a classic thing that hasn't fully
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  been solved in your mind.
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  And what's a binding problem?
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  So binding the shape and the color and the movement altogether.
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  So how do I know that the color belongs?
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  So I move my hand.
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  How do I know the color of my hand belongs to the hand and not, why don't I see the blue
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  here in my hand?
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  So how do I bind the color to this shape of the couch?
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  Sorry if you're only listening.
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  How do I bind the flesh color of my hand to my hand?
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  And how do I, how does my brain tag all this?
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  How does it know which sequence?
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  The one doesn't need to because it breaks it, because it's like the Humpty Dumpty
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  problem.
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  It's been referred to because it breaks it apart and sends it off, ships it off to different
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  parts of the brain, different neurons.
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  And we have good evidence that if you damage one part, then you don't perceive motion anymore.
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  If you damage a different part, you won't perceive color anymore.
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  And then there's a whole other one I see.
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  So because of different consciousness is happening in different areas.
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  Right.
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  But then it's happening here and here, how does my brain then know which bits belong
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  back to it?
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  It's going to bring it all back together again.
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  Right.
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  So your eyes see your hand moving in front of your face.
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  And then they send the signal to your brain and then one part of your brain that deals
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  with color.
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  Another part of your hand.
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  It's ships it all out and deals with motion.
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  And then they all come back together.
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  So how does it get back together again?
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  How does Humpty Dumpty get put back together?
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  How does it?
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  For.
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  So there's different theories.
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  One is like that your brain tags the different, the activity with different frequencies, like
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  20 hertz or 10 hertz or like this sort of oscillations of the neural groups of neurons.
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  Another idea is that all the information goes back, goes up this hierarchy to these
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  different areas and then it has to feed back down to these earlier hub parts of the
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  brain.
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  Primary visual cortex, we'll call it and that up and back down again and then this hub thing
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  glues it all back together or combination, how do we get AI to know about it?
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  Does that give us any insight into how our brains work when we try to figure out how
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  to teach a computer to know the difference between an object that's moving, that retains
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  its color and an object that's moving, that changes its color?
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  That's an interesting question because when the big revolutions in AI stuff started happening
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  people were really trying to model the AI, these neural nets, these learning were based
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  on neurons in the brain.
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  And they're largely still black box systems and that we don't know, it's really hard to
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  look under the hood and see how the AI is learning.
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  But I think we can to a certain degree so that's a presumably extrapolating from all of
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  the data that it's ingested, which is presumably part of what we do as well, right?
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  It's like it reminds me a bit of the, what's the test with the dummy hand where the people
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  touch the hand that's not actually theirs and that's behind a mirror?
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  Yeah, so you can have, you put your hand in a box, I guess it's not going to work well
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  for which is people on audio.
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  So you put your hand in a box and then you have a mirror and the mirror can make, there's
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  different versions of this.
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  You don't see your own hand and you can put a, you can put a, like a rubber hand there
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  and you can set it up so the rubber hand, because the mirror looks exactly, looks like
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  it's where your hand is.
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  And then you can do extra things like you touch, you used to say you stroke the rubber
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  hand and then someone strokes your hand perfectly in sync.
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  And once you start doing that, you go, your brain binds up the visual with the tactile.
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  So it's like, oh shit, this thing, like I can see the brush touching the rubber hand and
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  I'm feeling it, it must be my hand.
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  And then if you like stab the hand or hit it, like you, you really freak, you think it's
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  your hand being hit with the hammer.
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  And isn't it also the case?
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  The people really freak out.
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  But more than that, isn't that the case that you can stop stroking the feather on your
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  real hand and continue stroking the rubber hand and you'll keep feeling the feather?
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  I thought that was the punchline to the test.
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  This kind of thing is used as a treatment for people with phantom limb syndrome, those
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  people with missing, with a missing hand, with a missing arm.
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  And what will happen sometimes is they'll get the sensation that they, their, their hands
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  in a fist and their nails like pushing into their hand and it's quite uncomfortable.
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  It's like they, they feel like they're making a fist as hard as they possibly can and
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  it hurts, but they, there's no hand there to, they can't do this.
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  They can't release the fist because there's no, and they don't have an arm.
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  But if you do this mirror trick and we do it with your other hand or with a fake hand
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  and then you do this release and you make it look like it should be where the missing
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  hand is, people get relief from this.
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  It's like you're tricking your brain and it, it thinks for a moment that the missing
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  hand is there and it's, it's opening and I mean, this is really fascinating.
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  This is why I'm interested in whether or not the eye and toe tapping depends on your
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  seeing the toe tapping because I can understand if you can see it that your brain, much as
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  the phantom limb experiment shows, your brain will coordinate the feelings with what it
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  can see is supposed to be happening.
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  But if you were blindfolded and you didn't know, maybe that coordination wouldn't take
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  place and they wouldn't feel like they're exactly the same.
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  One is to do that experiment.
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  You need to do that.
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  You need to do that experiment.
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  Well, maybe it's been done.
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  How do you, how much credence do you give on the watch with numbers experiment?
• 15:21
  This, that ride, right?
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  The ride where you go up and you go, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga in a seat up
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  to the top of a tower and then you get released and you go falling down.
• 15:33
  It's funny you mentioned that one because I was doing a podcast for Nova podcasts a
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  couple of years ago called The Rush, which I think people can still hear, which was eight
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  episodes about the ways in which our brains get a rush from some extreme activity.
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  So one episode was about sex, one episode was about drugs, one episode was about adrenaline.
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  And for the adrenaline, I didn't, I didn't actually, sadly, I was unable to take recreational
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  drugs for the purposes, but I did go to a sex, I did go to a Japanese sex dungeon and
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  get, like, strong up by a, I mean, I wasn't engaged in actual sexual activity, but a
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  job.
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  This was audio with visuals.
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  This was audio, thankfully.
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  This was an audio podcast.
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  And like a Japanese bondage master, she, like, strong me up in, like, leather straps and
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  this is a me up.
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  Yeah.
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  It was amazing.
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  Anyway, one of the experiences that I went through was we rented out Dream World on the
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  Gold Coast, which is a big amusement park for an hour before it opened one day.
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  And we flew up there and they did that ride with me about 10 times in a row, with just
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  me on the ride.
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  And I was strapped up with a GoPro and strapped up with, like, to see what my physiology
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  was doing in those moments as you're just about to be released.
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  And then what happens when you're dropped.
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  And I remember, I hate those rides.
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  I love roller coasters, but because I love the feeling, you go up and you go up and
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  then free fall.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  But like, I like a roller coaster because I like feeling like I'm a bird, but I don't,
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  I don't like my gut just being up in my mouth and feeling like I'm going to puke because
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  I'm just falling.
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  And I certainly don't like the moments before the free fall where you're just waiting,
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  gazing out over the physical of the Gold Coast, anticipating when it's going to happen,
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  any second now, any second now, any second now, any second now.
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  And afterwards I got down, I said to the operator, it's ingeniously timed how long you have
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  to wait up the top before you get released.
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  It's like just long enough that it's uncomfortable.
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  It's like just long enough that you really feel antsy and frightened because you expect
• 17:47
  it's going to happen at any moment.
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  And the operator said, funnily enough, the amount of time that you're waiting at the
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  top is zero.
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  Where it goes up and drops.
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  And as soon as it touches the top and all I was feeling was those final moments, maybe
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  a second or a fraction of a second when it's so slow that you don't have a sensation
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  of motion anymore before it touches the actual top and then releases you down.
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  So certainly my subjective experience, it wasn't minutes after the thing, it would have
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  been seconds or milliseconds after the drop began was that the time was interminable.
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  Certainly felt like the time was passing internally while I was there.
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  I certainly remember thinking, when is it going to happen, when's it going to happen,
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  when's it going to happen?
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  And it's hard to separate memory from the actual thing, right?
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  So how do you know whether, because now all you have is the memory, right?
• 18:39
  But is it the right to say, can I read numbers that are flashing very quickly?
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  Why would I necessarily have the ability to do that just because my experience of time
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  has been slowed?
• 18:54
  It's, you also have to add in that, and that would affect like visual processing in the
• 18:59
  visual cortex.
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  Exactly.
• 19:01
  Yeah.
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  It may not.
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  It may be other parts of the brain or, you know, so it's only testing one narrow visual
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  perceptual dimension.
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  Yeah.
• 19:08
  Yeah.
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  It strikes me as the wrong experiments.
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, you would need to, you'd need to ask me, I suppose you can never do it in real
• 19:16
  time, because everything becomes a memory of the previous movement, doesn't it?
• 19:19
  But you would sort of need to ask me in real time over a headset, like, how long does
• 19:25
  it feel it's you've been up here, but I guess I'm still, you know, you can do timing
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  intervals and drop people from different heights and see, like, do that.
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  And so they're actually trying to time it as they're falling, right?
• 19:36
  And then they guess you compare it to watching other people, a bit like they did, but try
• 19:39
  and take out the effect of memory.
• 19:40
  Yeah.
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  And if, and just because I could count one one thousand two one thousand three one
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  thousand, at the same rate, when I'm waiting for the drop, as I could, after the ride,
• 19:54
  does that mean that the experience is going at the same pace?
• 19:57
  Because I could still be having the same brain speeds up or the brain processing changes
• 20:02
  then you would be counting differently, but again, that the assumption there is that
• 20:06
  my language slows down as well, which is another assumption like the visual thing.
• 20:12
  There's something, it's a hard, I mean, this is, you know, we, we pushed up against this
• 20:17
  problem all the time, trying to separate the thing from the memory of the thing and you
• 20:21
  just have to do it in real time.
• 20:22
  Right.
• 20:23
  So yeah, the perceptual flick of things one way to do it.
• 20:25
  Okay.
• 20:26
  So let's assume that we don't know that time slows down in extreme situations.
• 20:30
  It certainly seems, it certainly is different in memory and there's data from that and the
• 20:34
  the theory around that is the, the richer your experience of whatever I'm on your vacation,
• 20:39
  your holiday, the more stuff gets pushed into it, your brain thinks, oh, that must have
• 20:43
  happened, must have been a longer period, because this is more things happening, more stimulation,
• 20:48
  more different people, more scenes, right, if you sit in and, you know, a cell for three,
• 20:53
  you know, three or four days and nothing happens, then as you look back, it's going to be
• 20:56
  like, it was like a couple of hours or just because nothing changes.
• 20:59
  Right.
• 21:01
  So it felt interminable, it might have felt like time.
• 21:02
  And so that's, yeah, at the time, it would just drag and drag, but later on you should
• 21:07
  get this flip where the, the, the, the grade vacation, you know, in memory, because it
• 21:12
  was spread out by the time it's like, oh, the days over already down.
• 21:15
  Yeah.
• 21:16
  Interesting.
• 21:17
  Sitting in the cell, it's like every, you look, you know, you look at your watch and
• 21:19
  you think it's the afternoon and it's like, I mean, that's gone by or something.
• 21:22
  And does pain extend time?
• 21:25
  Do we know?
• 21:25
  Because you know, there's like experiments where we took, actually, there are some new
• 21:30
  research that came out last year showing that again, look, this is like really like 100
• 21:36
  millisecond times again, really short, which, which for the brain is actually a long time,
• 21:42
  that as your heart beats, it affects your time perception.
• 21:46
  As the heart contracts, your perception of time actually gets shorter.
• 21:51
  And then as a heart relaxes, your perceptual, you think time, the same amount of time is
• 21:56
  longer.
• 21:57
  So when you have to do these things where they can put this stimuli on sound or visual
• 22:01
  things and they can, they measure your heart to their time, they sink it up.
• 22:05
  Yeah.
• 22:06
  And you'll perceive the same thing to be shorter or longer, depending off the heart's contracting
• 22:11
  or releasing.
• 22:12
  Does that mean that having a fast heart rate changes your time perception versus a short
• 22:17
  time?
• 22:18
  And it seems to be slow.
• 22:19
  So it's, it's, it's both within the contraction and the relaxation.
• 22:22
  Okay.
• 22:23
  So it's boom, boom.
• 22:24
  So it's moved by moment.
• 22:25
  So it's not like, alternate, fast, fast.
• 22:26
  It's not like I can just give myself hypertension and therefore experience time.
• 22:31
  Yeah.
• 22:32
  No, but that was interesting because there's a lot of you had new research linking the
• 22:35
  heart and breathing and all this stuff we tend to think of as just the body, whatever.
• 22:40
  It does affect cognition, thinking, time perception.
• 22:43
  Yes.
• 22:44
  There's more links with that than we originally thought.
• 22:46
  I remember there being a, a, a study about how if the final moments of a painful procedure
• 22:52
  are not painful, then you'll have a more favorable perception.
• 22:56
  I think that was.
• 22:57
  Yeah.
• 22:58
  Who just died.
• 22:59
  Yeah.
• 23:00
  Yeah.
• 23:01
  Can you tell us a little bit about that?
• 23:02
  I think there's a colonoscopy stuff.
• 23:03
  Yes.
• 23:04
  It works.
• 23:05
  Yeah.
• 23:06
  So I think it's similar for holidays as well that that these peak experiences will sort
• 23:11
  of mess with your memory of the whole thing.
• 23:14
  And let me just remember how the study goes.
• 23:17
  They actually had participants in a colonoscopy as part of the study and the, it's the last
• 23:26
  like few minutes.
• 23:27
  Yeah.
• 23:28
  I think what they did was, from memory, they extended the duration of the unpleasant procedure
• 23:35
  in order to make the, the end of it less unpleasant.
• 23:38
  So they pretended to still, to still need to be doing things, but those things were non-invasive
• 23:43
  and not painful.
• 23:44
  But the low pain goes for longer.
• 23:45
  That's right.
• 23:46
  Yeah.
• 23:47
  And people reported, subjectively, the experience being less painful, even though the whole,
• 23:53
  even though the peak pain was just as pain, I don't know who's doing these fucking colonoscopies
• 23:58
  by the way.
• 23:59
  They're not supposed to be painful.
• 24:00
  You're supposed to be sedated.
• 24:01
  I think they studied a while back and I think some of the interviews I've heard him
• 24:03
  say like, everyone relax, this is, this was done, this is, it's different now.
• 24:07
  Right.
• 24:08
  Now they give you a functional, like an act of the painful thing and morphine.
• 24:12
  But anyway, so it was supposed to be, it's equally painful, but if you have a pleasant
• 24:17
  final, the last couple of minutes you drag them down by the thing, in other words, your
• 24:24
  intuition might be, I just want the painful experience to be as brief as possible.
• 24:28
  Yeah.
• 24:29
  But actually, you'll remember it as being more painful if that's the case than if it's
• 24:32
  a longer experience, equally painful, but ending with less, with, if at the end there
• 24:37
  is less.
• 24:38
  Yeah, you've got to drop, I think if it drops the pain, the same thing with a holiday,
• 24:42
  which would be, at the, if you have a peak experience at the end of the holiday, you'll
• 24:47
  remember the whole holiday as being better.
• 24:49
  And if you have a bad experience at the end of the holiday, the lights in the way home
• 24:52
  are all messed up and there are ways and everything.
• 24:54
  Your bag gets lost on the way home, something the whole holiday gets taken over the holiday
• 24:58
  as like, no, I wasn't really good.
• 24:59
  Yeah.
• 25:00
  Interesting.
• 25:01
  Yeah, memory, people think of memory as this like video camp, video phone video recording
• 25:05
  of the whole thing, as it happened, and it's not, I mean, you have visual, optical illusions,
• 25:11
  people know about those, but there's, there's effectively illusions in every part of our
• 25:17
  mind and brain, right?
• 25:18
  And there's lots in memory.
• 25:20
  You have to try and remember a string of numbers, the stuff at the beginning and the end
• 25:23
  are easy to remember, everything in the middle is really hard to remember.
• 25:26
  These peak experiences, there's, yeah, it's not like a video recording of what happens
• 25:32
  in your life.
• 25:33
  It's sort of certain, certain things are laid down in memory and then we sort of try and
• 25:38
  reboot that memory with these little fragments that are there and so it's, it falls by us
• 25:42
  to all these things about the nature of how the brain is processed information.
• 25:46
  And so in terms of time, it certainly strikes me subjectively that the amount of novelty
• 25:52
  that takes place in an experience affects my memory of how much time it took in the
• 25:59
  sense that to go back to the holiday example, if I'm going on a vacation on a holiday and
• 26:04
  I'm bouncing around a bunch of different places and having quite varied experiences in
• 26:09
  each place, then the two weeks feels like longer than two weeks and if I'm only staying
• 26:14
  in one place at one resort, funny should bring this up.
• 26:18
  Let me, let's do it.
• 26:19
  Let's try into a visual demo.
• 26:20
  We'll try and do it to the camera.
• 26:22
  Okay.
• 26:23
  And see if you can see it too.
• 26:24
  We'll load, we'll load this in there.
• 26:25
  But if you can see it on the YouTube, what is, let's wait for it to just reset.
• 26:29
  So what is going to show?
• 26:31
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