Latest / Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com / Fraggle Talk Episode 6: "The Legend of Icy Joe" with Karen Prell ("Red")

Transcript

Fraggle Talk Episode 6: "The Legend of Icy Joe" with Karen Prell ("Red") · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to fraggle, talk.
• 0:19
  The Unofficial Fraggle, Rock podcast brought to you by tough
• 0:22
  tix.com. This is the podcast where we
• 0:24
  cover Fraggle. Rock back to the Rock Episode by
• 0:27
  episode along with the talented producers.
• 0:30
  Armors writers and Builders, who helped put it together.
• 0:32
  I'm your host silly creature Johannes.
• 0:35
  Today, we are talking about episodes 6.
• 0:38
  The legend of I see Joe in which Gobo and Wembley find an ancient
• 0:41
  fraggle, who turns out to be kind of a jerk today, we'll be
• 0:45
  chatting with a muppet performer, whose work can be
• 0:47
  seen on The Muppet Show, Labyrinth Muppet Christmas,
• 0:50
  Carol, and so many more. She originated, one of the most
• 0:53
  iconic characters on the original Fraggle Rock series and
• 0:56
  she's proving that you truly cannot leave the magic as she To
• 1:00
  reprise her performance as red fraggle on back to the Rock.
• 1:03
  We are extremely excited to welcome.
• 1:05
  Karen prell to the podcast. Hi.
• 1:07
  Karen. Hello, hi.
• 1:09
  Joe height of pigs. Woohoo.
• 1:12
  All right this is such a thrill to have you here.
• 1:16
  I mean we're obviously such huge fans of your work, we're huge,
• 1:20
  huge fans of the original Fraggle Rock and we're so
• 1:22
  pleased with how everything is coming together on the new
• 1:25
  series and that you're such a huge part of it.
• 1:29
  Well, I am. I am thrilled.
• 1:31
  I still can't believe it happened, but I'm so glad it
• 1:35
  did. And so glad that the whole new
• 1:37
  generation is enjoying it. Absolutely.
• 1:41
  Did you ever think that we would see the day with when we get a
• 1:43
  new Fraggle Rock series? Oh well, you know, I kept, I
• 1:49
  kept dreaming and wishing and and and hoping but also just
• 1:54
  trying to be realistic with with, you know, what was
• 1:56
  involved with getting the No, to happen.
• 1:59
  Just so big and and complex and, and having the creative freedom
• 2:04
  to do what we wanted. So it's like who I don't know,
• 2:08
  be awesome, but I don't know. And and then it came, it came
• 2:14
  together. Just just so thrilled.
• 2:17
  Absolutely. And you of all the performers to
• 2:20
  kind of has been keeping red alive, because I know you've
• 2:23
  brought red to conventions and you've reprise read in the the
• 2:28
  Rock on miniseries for Apple a year or two ago.
• 2:32
  So for anyone out there of all the performers, you're the one
• 2:36
  who it was like a guarantee that you have to be hung this series.
• 2:40
  Did you did you feel that responsibility as well?
• 2:44
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:45
  I've been kind of keeping the, the fraggle flame going for four
• 2:50
  years. Once once we finish the original
• 2:54
  series and and and then went off.
• 2:58
  Too many other you know, puppet and animation Adventures.
• 3:03
  But I would I would always meet people that were just huge, huge
• 3:07
  fans of the of the of the show and and just you know feeling
• 3:13
  feeling that that that spirit and joy and appreciation from
• 3:18
  the audience like all over the world in person before the
• 3:24
  internet was was the thing. And then once the internet was a
• 3:26
  thing just just here Hang it from from people, through
• 3:30
  through that. So, you know, I've tried to keep
• 3:34
  in touch with a lot of the original cast and crew and
• 3:36
  helped organize some of the reunions that we had in in
• 3:41
  Toronto with the original cast and crew and and you know, touch
• 3:47
  touch base with people and just see, you know, is there any
• 3:50
  possibility? We can still do some more
• 3:53
  Crackle Friday Also. And then then having Chance to
• 4:00
  perform read again at all the different conventions and events
• 4:06
  to to promote fraggles. Finally coming back out on DVD
• 4:11
  and and on various cable and and streaming streaming platforms.
• 4:18
  So this was just always always a thrill to to help, you know,
• 4:24
  touch touch base with the people that were wanting wanting more
• 4:26
  fraggles and excited. Excite new people about
• 4:29
  fraggles. Absolutely.
• 4:31
  You mentioned the cast and crew from the original series and
• 4:35
  with back to the Rock, you're one of the very few who worked
• 4:38
  on the original series whose present in the room as as you're
• 4:41
  filming. Did you feel a certain kind of
• 4:43
  responsibility to, you know, take care of Fraggle lore or,
• 4:49
  you know what we would have done, you know, in the original
• 4:52
  series want to make sure that we're doing the same thing or
• 4:55
  did everyone already seemed? Like they were kind of on board
• 4:57
  with that stuff. Well, a lot of people were were
• 5:00
  already kind of pre-programmed, you know, they'd grown up with
• 5:03
  the show, they knew the show. They they, they loved it.
• 5:07
  And so they were very familiar with what we had had done and
• 5:13
  and and of course, me armed with, with my is practically a
• 5:19
  fraggle fan level of trivia and stuff, but it was also important
• 5:24
  to me not to treat the original as something cast in stone.
• 5:28
  That must never be deviated from his part of what made the
• 5:31
  original amazing was was all the, the new and surprising
• 5:38
  perspectives that we brought to the show and to have that same
• 5:43
  spirit and and engagement from the audience with the new show,
• 5:48
  the ideas was just not to do an absolute carbon.
• 5:51
  Copy now is helpful for me and Dave Gold's to, to say, well,
• 5:55
  this, this is what we did in the original and this Is why?
• 5:58
  But it doesn't mean we always have to do it that way, right?
• 6:05
  But, you know, we had reasons back then to do things a certain
• 6:10
  way and we could share our insights and then that would
• 6:14
  help as a new people were joining the production and and
• 6:18
  and having ideas to kind of think to that level of insight
• 6:23
  of why they wanted to do certain things, even though it was might
• 6:27
  have been something very Different from what we did in
• 6:29
  the original. We're there any times where you
• 6:33
  really had to put your foot down, or you started butting
• 6:36
  heads with people because it's just you just know these
• 6:39
  characters. So well you just know how it
• 6:42
  should be and you know, maybe you gotta you gotta push a
• 6:46
  little bit to convince them that you're right.
• 6:49
  Huh? Gosh I'm trying to to to think
• 6:53
  it's the with the the new series, a lot of the challenges
• 6:57
  were Just with so many of the new things we were trying all of
• 7:00
  us together. Just trying to figure out how
• 7:03
  we're going to do that. But as far as really really
• 7:08
  having to you know find a hill to die on.
• 7:13
  I can't think of anything it's a at the moment.
• 7:18
  If I think of something I will, I will let you know and there
• 7:20
  might be some yes as we're talking but yes please do.
• 7:25
  Yeah well I know that you had That you insisted on bringing
• 7:30
  inspector read back for another episode.
• 7:33
  Was that something that you you had requested, before scripting
• 7:36
  it started. Even remember doing that.
• 7:38
  Maybe I got that info, didn't I didn't, I don't remember like
• 7:43
  putting my foot down and saying there must be more inspector
• 7:45
  red, but I was definitely thrilled when they wanted to
• 7:52
  wanted to do more more inspector red.
• 7:55
  And now that, that was a situation where we're going to
• 7:58
  do inspector Ed, but it's going to be a different thing and it's
• 8:01
  like this was a case of it worked so well in the original,
• 8:04
  it's just like, you know, bring it back, you know, bigger,
• 8:09
  bigger and better. But with that, that same Spirit
• 8:12
  in it. So I'm just so glad the original
• 8:17
  impacted the our new creative team so much that they that they
• 8:22
  want to do more. That's right.
• 8:24
  Yeah. And speaking of red, you know,
• 8:26
  this new series is more of a soft reboot than it is a sequel.
• 8:32
  So we do have the same characters but they, you know,
• 8:34
  there are certain things that have, you know, not quite
• 8:37
  carried over. From the old show in your eyes
• 8:40
  has red. Changed at all between the old
• 8:43
  Series in the current one. Or is it just the same exact
• 8:46
  read in? Not quite exactly the same
• 8:50
  environment to me. She seems like the same red just
• 8:57
  reaching, you know, new new depths that we just ran out of
• 9:04
  time to do with, with the original.
• 9:07
  Because when we, when we Stop working on the original show.
• 9:13
  There were more stories that that I was wanting to tell a
• 9:19
  more things to to explore with her.
• 9:22
  And, you know, we still the original wrapped it up.
• 9:25
  So amazingly beautifully perfectly and it was at that
• 9:31
  time, it was for the best with the way it all turned out.
• 9:35
  But now it's like there's a chance to continue taking Taking
• 9:42
  this character and what she touched inside of me as well as
• 9:47
  inside the audience and just seeing how much more we could
• 9:51
  explore with her and within her. And Beyond performing your also,
• 9:57
  credited as co-executive producer on back to the Rock.
• 10:01
  What do those duties? Entail, pretty much what I did
• 10:05
  on the original but it was official job this time.
• 10:10
  Great one on the, on the original I was sitting in on
• 10:12
  story. Meetings, I was a writer's know,
• 10:15
  Joseline knows, I was in on the story.
• 10:17
  Meetings. Hey, what about this?
• 10:18
  What about this? What about this and having notes
• 10:21
  on the script and and ideas on costumes?
• 10:25
  Rooms and characters and gags, and, and even drawing some of
• 10:32
  the art that was seen on screen in the original.
• 10:34
  I didn't. Oh, great do that on this one
• 10:37
  but just just help them. Build, perhaps, just everything.
• 10:42
  So, so now it was it was officially my job to be a part
• 10:47
  of it. And it was also being official.
• 10:50
  It was it was a lot, a lot busier.
• 10:52
  And and just doing, you know, Extent extensive notes on
• 10:57
  scripts and songs and character designs, but I loved it.
• 11:01
  So it was, it was just just like this, new series was way to
• 11:05
  explore more with red. It was a way of me as a Creator
• 11:09
  to explore more with what I could contribute to to getting
• 11:16
  getting all the creative ideas as big and amazing as possible
• 11:21
  in this show. Terrific.
• 11:23
  Well, hopefully, we'll be pinpointing a few of those ideas
• 11:27
  and influences. As we talk about this episode,
• 11:30
  The Legend of, I see Joe the episode starts with Doc and
• 11:35
  sprocket is so many other Fraggle Rock episodes.
• 11:37
  Do the thermostat is broken and it's getting pretty cold in the
• 11:42
  workshop. Will see very soon.
• 11:44
  That Fraggle Rock is also getting very cold but here we're
• 11:48
  seeing sprocket for the first time in this episode and Were
• 11:53
  sprockets right hand. Entails.
• 11:55
  All right for for the original and also on this, this this
• 12:02
  series. And then the producers are
• 12:04
  saying, why does that's assisting your ad producer your
• 12:06
  performer. You're like Alyssa.
• 12:08
  I love helping out with sprocket.
• 12:10
  I love helping with assisting other other other puppeteers.
• 12:14
  And so I just wanted to continue doing that and and really enjoy
• 12:20
  working with with John tartaglia Yeah, we were doing a lot more
• 12:24
  complicated stuff with with sprocket this, this time.
• 12:27
  So at times, we had multiple sprockets popping all over the
• 12:31
  place. So we had a lot more than me and
• 12:35
  at times around they're doing sprocket and disembodied,
• 12:39
  sprocket parts of it and do stuff.
• 12:42
  It was so fun, so fun, that's great.
• 12:45
  I love hearing stuff like that where you know, that seems like
• 12:48
  a very Jim Henson thing to where Jim didn't mind popping up in
• 12:50
  the background as you know, as a Of character here and there even
• 12:53
  though he was the big boss and to see, you know, right, you
• 12:58
  still want to be sprockets right here.
• 13:00
  You still want to wag sprockets tail who wouldn't?
• 13:02
  Yeah. Yeah, so fun and we often talk
• 13:06
  about how sprocket is not a puppet.
• 13:08
  Sprocket is a real dog because sprocket, well, every Everything
• 13:12
  the sprocket does is just so natural, and I really have to
• 13:16
  hand it to you. No pun intended.
• 13:18
  But I really have to hand it to you to to you know, compliment
• 13:22
  how Ow, you know, sprocket really does come to life and you
• 13:26
  do such a phenomenal job with him.
• 13:28
  So I'm glad to see that you are back, you know underneath that
• 13:31
  puppet. Well Johnny just did a wonderful
• 13:36
  wonderful job with sprocket. I love what Steve Whitmire did
• 13:39
  with the original Sprocket, was so fun working with him and we
• 13:43
  got just more amazing fun with with sprocket.
• 13:47
  It's like, he is this this spirit animal that is in the DNA
• 13:52
  Of humans and Steve got a wonderful chance to tap into it
• 13:56
  and now Johnny's got a chance to to tap into it.
• 13:59
  And it's something that people just fell all that's the heart
• 14:02
  and and the the love and the joy of a dog.
• 14:04
  You see how it's even affecting me right now.
• 14:06
  So yeah. Yeah.
• 14:08
  It's just so fun to be a part of that.
• 14:11
  That's fantastic. So down in Fraggle Rock.
• 14:14
  It is the first Frost we see gobos breath which is a really
• 14:18
  cool. Little effect, little CG effect
• 14:21
  nice. Tasteful bit of Animation in a
• 14:24
  show that has so little of it already.
• 14:27
  We get to see the fraggles in their winter gear which I love,
• 14:30
  I love seeing the winter hats and Red's got her little Pom-Pom
• 14:35
  warmers and stuff like that boobers Sox have frozen solid.
• 14:41
  We see red ice skating through the rock.
• 14:44
  Least we see her from the waist up and Gobo Wembley are heading
• 14:48
  to the storytellers to hear the legend of.
• 14:51
  I see Joe. We'll meet, I see Joe very soon,
• 14:55
  but first, we're going to head over to the storytellers.
• 14:58
  There's a big statue of I see Joe which is pretty cool time.
• 15:01
  Assume that was a practical effect, right?
• 15:02
  That was a mistake. Oh yes.
• 15:04
  It was huge. Yes, that's great.
• 15:06
  What is what is something like that made out of?
• 15:08
  Like I assume it's not like just a puppet spray-painted.
• 15:10
  Is it like actually? No no it was it was massive.
• 15:14
  I think it was carved. Styrofoam that's then coated
• 15:20
  with with a Layers of paint and stuff.
• 15:24
  That's that's what it, what it looked like, sir could be huge,
• 15:27
  but not too heavy. Yeah, that seems something is
• 15:30
  possible to me, Gobo and Wembley are completely fanboying out on
• 15:36
  about I see Joe. And this is something where like
• 15:39
  I completely relate like I someone, who like works, you
• 15:42
  know, with the fan community and you know I get to be in front of
• 15:46
  like people who I really admire like yourself and it's like it's
• 15:50
  hard to keep the excitement down and He liked the haven't even
• 15:53
  met. I see Joe yet and they're just
• 15:54
  going nuts over her. That's the song was.
• 15:59
  So when we first heard that that's as producers we got to
• 16:02
  hear like the early versions of song and that song Just it hit
• 16:07
  it out of the park, you know, first time we listen to it.
• 16:09
  It's like oh perfect, perfect perfect.
• 16:12
  Just so, so fun. And then, Donna as Storyteller,
• 16:15
  just taken Storyteller and just go and nuts with with her, just
• 16:21
  such a Amazing combination of music and energy and
• 16:28
  personalities such a fun way to start the show.
• 16:32
  Yeah, I completely agree. Donna's performances, the
• 16:34
  Storyteller is hysterical and she has this mood that so
• 16:39
  relatable of like like I don't want to deal with these guys.
• 16:43
  Let me just tell my story and get out of here.
• 16:45
  I want to put my napping glasses on yes.
• 16:49
  And that song to is terrific at that it has a very I wrote on
• 16:52
  it. very Kenny Rogers Sound to it like as if it's a the last
• 16:56
  verse of the gambler Yeah, you know, they were just going for
• 17:02
  just really, really exciting. Exciting song to excite the
• 17:10
  audience and reflect the excitement of the fraggle
• 17:13
  audience for this heroic character.
• 17:16
  Totally yeah, Gobo and Wembley are heading out to retrace.
• 17:21
  I see Joe's steps actually on their way out.
• 17:24
  First read suggest with all the frost that they should play Rock
• 17:28
  hockey, Sort of using greaseberry leaves.
• 17:30
  They should just slide on the ice.
• 17:32
  And yes hockey. Ah, nice that'll never work.
• 17:38
  That's great. Yes.
• 17:38
  Yes, you got to do so much fun stuff is red on the series.
• 17:43
  I mean, in the old series, of course to but something like
• 17:45
  this where red is literally sliding around.
• 17:48
  Are you on a cart for something like that?
• 17:51
  Or are you just really good at keeping yourself?
• 17:53
  Looking moving, smoothly for that.
• 17:56
  I was just just on, on my My feet because there were so many
• 18:02
  at the beginning like when she's going through a laundry line and
• 18:06
  crashing through a crowd of fraggles, you know, there's
• 18:08
  there's like under the cameras, you know, it's like 20 people
• 18:12
  and just have been able to be able to safely maneuver through
• 18:15
  that. I was just just on feet and then
• 18:18
  coordinating with the people that read was falling into and
• 18:22
  with the camera people. And and so that was where we all
• 18:27
  just had to, you know, not Beyond carts or boxes or
• 18:31
  anything. Everybody just on on their feet,
• 18:34
  moving around, trying to make the sliding work.
• 18:36
  Took a few takes to get it all to work above camera as well as
• 18:42
  below camera, lot of lot of coordinating.
• 18:45
  But yeah, all that stuff is just so, so fun for sure.
• 18:49
  It's one of those things is always impressed.
• 18:50
  Me about Fraggle Rock is with other Muppet series, you know?
• 18:54
  Every once while you, you see, you know, a hand at the bottom
• 18:57
  of an arm Rod, you see the top of someone's His head, you know,
• 19:00
  you could tell like, there's little mistakes that they just
• 19:02
  kind of gloss over. We can just let it slide because
• 19:04
  we gotta move on. But Fraggle Rock.
• 19:06
  It's rare to see a slip-up. There's so much coordination in
• 19:10
  choreography that must be going on behind the scenes that just
• 19:14
  makes it look perfect. And keeps you in that in that
• 19:17
  world. Well, we did have the advantage,
• 19:22
  you know, 40 years later of being able to use effects in
• 19:27
  post too. Remove, you know, heads or hands
• 19:31
  or arms, you should try to avoid it because, as a producer, you
• 19:34
  know, that head in the shot, that's gonna that's money to try
• 19:37
  to fix it. So, you try, you try and you try
• 19:39
  to get as clean as possible. But, and certainly, especially
• 19:43
  for things like shooting against blue-screen ultimate in the
• 19:49
  original. It just freezes up so much where
• 19:53
  we could just everybody could just you could see Shadows.
• 19:56
  You can see Rod, you can, you can see Bill's faces as long as
• 20:00
  they weren't overlapping, the the Puppeteer just gave a lot
• 20:03
  more freedom to if you know if we had to just to have all kinds
• 20:07
  of extraneous things in the shot and know it could get cleaned
• 20:11
  up. But yeah, generally when we
• 20:13
  weren't shooting against blue-screen, we would we would
• 20:15
  try we were trying to get things looking looking looking as clean
• 20:21
  as possible just just kind of going with the the old-school
• 20:25
  feel of shooting up shooting live live puppet.
• 20:29
  Like this, for sure. Yeah, and like the work
• 20:32
  obviously shows off like it's it looks pristine.
• 20:37
  So next up, I'm going to read a post card from my uncle
• 20:40
  traveling Matt. And we don't need to get into
• 20:42
  the contents of the postcard here, but the one of my favorite
• 20:46
  things about Fraggle Rock is Reds disdain for traveling,
• 20:52
  Matt's post cards. And in this episode, I traveling
• 20:55
  mad. Episode.
• 20:59
  She has a pair of head of earmuffs, not headphones your
• 21:02
  mom's and she says Oh no. Just as my ear muffs go on a big
• 21:09
  laugh out of me, do you recall where that bit came from you
• 21:13
  know in the original series was that something that you wanted
• 21:16
  to put in? Or was that someone else?
• 21:18
  I am trying to remember what With the origination of it was,
• 21:27
  but it's like, it is, it is definitely grown.
• 21:29
  And it's, it's it's magnified a lot more this this time around
• 21:37
  because it's not, you know, the the fraggles even when there
• 21:40
  aren't external challenges to deal with their, they're a group
• 21:48
  of characters that have different thoughts and feelings
• 21:51
  and And insecurities and it's not, you know, happy perfect,
• 21:55
  everybody get along land, you know, so so this gives a chance
• 22:02
  for 44 read to to really show that that something about this,
• 22:08
  just really, really bugs her. And she's red and she has to say
• 22:11
  something about it right now. That's, that's something that I
• 22:16
  would like to really dig into an Explorer.
• 22:20
  If there's if there's ever a chance I get Just to see.
• 22:22
  Where is this coming from? Because she, she gets, she just
• 22:26
  gets really, really blunt blunt about it.
• 22:29
  But at the same time, it gives Gobo Gobo chance to kind of go
• 22:32
  in the opposite direction to just ridiculously worship Uncle,
• 22:36
  Matt. And that even kind of helped set
• 22:39
  up his, his, his worship of, I see, Joe kind of tapping into
• 22:43
  that same that same need to to, you know, to have to have a hero
• 22:50
  to inspire him. But yeah, so it's fun to always
• 22:55
  always let red, right? Everybody else is like, oh yes,
• 22:58
  yes probably Matt. And read my God.
• 23:01
  So yeah, always always fun. I'm glad people are enjoying
• 23:06
  that too. I definitely am.
• 23:08
  Are they ever ad-libs those those reactions?
• 23:11
  Or they, always always always scripted, pretty much everything
• 23:17
  is scripted just really, really wonderful work by Our writers
• 23:24
  and Alex and Matt are showrunners.
• 23:26
  So yeah. And they're, you know, they're
• 23:30
  there might be things in there that we might build on, or
• 23:32
  suggest some some alternates, but most of the time just, you
• 23:36
  know, really wonderful writing. That's, that's a joy to perform.
• 23:41
  Absolutely. They're nailing, it's those
• 23:42
  writers. Oh yeah.
• 23:46
  So Gobo and Wembley are traveling deeper into the Rock
• 23:49
  to retrace. I see Joe steps.
• 23:52
  There is a nice walbro, that's blocking them from going any
• 23:55
  further. But from the last few episodes
• 23:57
  we've seen, there's all this new water in Fraggle Rock.
• 23:59
  The new water must have melted the entryway a way that's kind
• 24:04
  of our big connection here to the rest of the season.
• 24:07
  With this larger topic of the water that's connecting us all
• 24:13
  and they start singing that I see Joe song that you and I were
• 24:16
  just talking about and someone is singing along with them.
• 24:19
  It's I see Joe and she's alive. And Is so, so let's talk about,
• 24:25
  I see Joe for a minute here. First of all, where is we waited
• 24:28
  long enough? Here, I'm gonna blow off my
• 24:30
  block. These microphone Levels by using
• 24:32
  my. I see Joe voice and probably
• 24:34
  scaring Karen's Neighbors at the same time.
• 24:37
  Hello, hello, Joe, another Joe but not the I know I'm the only
• 24:42
  I see Joe. Yeah no I'm a slightly less I
• 24:45
  see Joe. So first of all, let's talk
• 24:50
  about where I see. Joe came from for you.
• 24:53
  Like did you were you immediately thinking I want to
• 24:56
  play a new main character on the show was I see Joe to tell he's
• 25:01
  already exist and then you volunteer.
• 25:03
  Did someone volunteer you for the job?
• 25:05
  What was your connection there? They asked me to read for this.
• 25:12
  They asked all of us to read for several of the of the
• 25:16
  characters. She was already created when
• 25:22
  Listen and Matt introduce this to, to this the script and and I
• 25:27
  was I was very pleased, that it was a female character.
• 25:31
  She was originally presented as as almost a kind of cynical
• 25:36
  Beatrice. Arthur, mmm, you know, New York,
• 25:40
  kind of character. And I couldn't really connect
• 25:43
  with that very well. And some additions were kind of
• 25:48
  explored that kind of take on, on the, the Character.
• 25:52
  And then some of us were noting that you will just kind of
• 25:55
  strange. You know, when when some new out
• 25:57
  of out of the the the the main Rock characters show up, they
• 26:02
  often have New York accents for some reason, I'd so.
• 26:06
  But but I kept thinking well she's as Pioneer Woman and from
• 26:12
  from ancient times and she's, she's very tough, she's had to
• 26:16
  survive. You know brutal, brutal
• 26:19
  environment. And and Even thinking back to my
• 26:25
  my one side of my family were farmers in Wisconsin, just out
• 26:30
  there in the wild establishing themselves on the land and being
• 26:35
  in harsh circumstances. And and so I just just started
• 26:40
  to think what what that kind of a character would be and what
• 26:44
  they would, what they would sound like.
• 26:46
  So I ended up drawing a bit on a bit of on on that and on Tapped
• 26:52
  a little bit into kind of a Canadian field to her voice the
• 26:57
  way, the way that Gobo sir, you originally thanks to Jerry
• 27:02
  Nelson. Had a little bit of Canadian in
• 27:04
  her voice, but also a bit of American Wisconsin.
• 27:08
  North Dakota Minnesota, and even even little bits of Irish and
• 27:14
  pirate. Just like, all these kind of
• 27:15
  woods, weird weird mix of characters that had to go out
• 27:21
  and To very harsh, and unknown lands and just just very very
• 27:28
  rough. Very, very blunt not polishing.
• 27:31
  Anything that they thought or said, just just call it it,
• 27:34
  like, like, it is so, so the the way the kit, when we were
• 27:38
  auditioning the characters presented kind of this, this
• 27:41
  this one way and and I thought well, I'm going to do this other
• 27:46
  thing and just see what people like.
• 27:47
  So I thought. Well, I'll do this, I'll have
• 27:49
  fun and if I don't get it, It's fine.
• 27:53
  So I just I just went for it and and it worked out that that's
• 27:58
  what they decide to go for. That's fantastic and and what a
• 28:02
  thrill that you get a new original character on this show
• 28:06
  and not just like a one-off character because I see Joe does
• 28:08
  come back a couple times in the series.
• 28:11
  And, and hopefully, you know, if there's a second season will see
• 28:14
  more of I see Joe, but but so much fun that you get to do
• 28:17
  this. And, you know, you're not just
• 28:19
  kind of doing red and then going back to Trailer.
• 28:22
  You know well on the the the original yet was mainly red is
• 28:28
  like, red is such a useful like script in energy-wise.
• 28:33
  We called her the cut to the chase character where everybody,
• 28:37
  you know, could be standing around and talking about their
• 28:39
  feelings and read just runs in there and said, okay, let's do
• 28:43
  this, you know, boom and so on the original it was just most
• 28:49
  useful for red to get in there being Unread.
• 28:53
  And so I just ended up doing that most most of the time and
• 28:57
  she's still very useful that way in in the new, in the new series
• 29:02
  but we've got, we've got more more more ways for other
• 29:11
  characters to, to do that. It doesn't always have to be
• 29:15
  red, which is, which is good. And so I'm glad to have a chance
• 29:19
  to have another recurring. Character who just has very.
• 29:25
  She's so she's very strong and has a lot of energy, but still
• 29:29
  kind of has a different, a different take on on things.
• 29:34
  So yeah, that's that's been fun. Although physically, it's a very
• 29:38
  challenging character. Well those anyway.
• 29:40
  Next question because I see Joe looks like a huge and probably
• 29:44
  heavy puppet. Is that is that true?
• 29:46
  She is huge and heavy yesterday. They said that for having her
• 29:51
  squinty eyes, she was going to have an eye mechanism.
• 29:54
  I was like having haven't things like that to play with.
• 29:57
  And, and then, the, the puppet was finished.
• 30:01
  We had gone up to, to Calgary to start shooting in very icy Joe,
• 30:07
  whether worry 2021. And so they finished the I see
• 30:14
  Joe puppet and shipped it up to up, to, to Calgary, and she had
• 30:20
  a bit of an icy Joe adventure with It took a while had to do
• 30:23
  some exploring and and people had to have a look at what this
• 30:27
  thing was and then finally I showed up.
• 30:29
  So yeah, she fire finally got there.
• 30:31
  We were needing to start to rehearse with her is like is she
• 30:34
  here yet? Is she is she here you finally
• 30:37
  showed up and we got the puppet. I was like wow.
• 30:40
  She's she's big because we'd had meetings and and look through.
• 30:49
  I'm going to talk through different different elements of
• 30:51
  Of the, of the design and the colors and then saw photos of
• 30:54
  the puppet is, as it was being finished.
• 30:56
  But, but when we saw the, the actual puppets, like, oh, okay.
• 31:04
  So so did did some some work figuring out your?
• 31:09
  It was, it was quite heavy. I think, eventually, I got my, I
• 31:13
  had to luggage weighing scale, and I eventually brought brought
• 31:16
  that in and hooked it on to her and held it up and it's like,
• 31:21
  total seven. Eight pounds.
• 31:22
  I think, including the legs and most of the times you didn't
• 31:25
  have her legs on, but yeah, she's a sous.
• 31:30
  She was a pretty pretty heavy. So we tried various things with
• 31:33
  with having having a framework on my hips with kind of backpack
• 31:41
  straps and to hold the weight. But I found I was just having to
• 31:46
  strain so much against that to get her upright properly, and
• 31:51
  being able to move. Move the way she needed for for
• 31:55
  performance. Because she needed to be agile
• 31:58
  and move and not really kind of stuck stuck in one place.
• 32:03
  So so that that was just that was that was that wasn't quite
• 32:09
  working out. And then so we decided Well,
• 32:12
  what if we have, she already needed an assistant person to do
• 32:16
  her hands. Whether the hands were rotted or
• 32:18
  Alive hands, because she was so big just Having reaching one
• 32:22
  hand into the head and another hand into her other hand would
• 32:27
  would just be. It would be literally hard to
• 32:30
  reach around her giant body to make that, that work ROM.
• 32:35
  So and I really, I really wanted to perform her eyes and they
• 32:41
  were saying, well, we can give the eyes to someone else.
• 32:43
  And I was like, no, no, and why do the eyes I need my eyes.
• 32:48
  We ended up having a third puppeteer whose job was just to
• 32:54
  hold up the weight of her body. So we had.
• 32:58
  And Andrew Cooper was the body man on.
• 33:03
  I see Joe and then Ingrid Hansen was did the the hands for, for,
• 33:09
  I see Joe. And so, I fortunately, with,
• 33:14
  with all of that, I didn't have to bear a lot of the, the way
• 33:18
  tight, my hand was just in her, in her head and Then my left
• 33:22
  hand was, was operating her. The two separate controls for
• 33:25
  her. Her eyelids, it was, it was
• 33:27
  still a lot of work. Does coordinating with this this
• 33:31
  tight bunch of three people that were that we're stuck stuck
• 33:34
  together and needing to coordinate to get her, get her
• 33:39
  her body upright and lined up properly.
• 33:42
  I also I had to wear toll boots on the original series.
• 33:47
  I had some tall boots. He and I Kathy Mullen and Dave
• 33:54
  goals and I had tall boots when we were working with Jim or
• 33:59
  Richard Hunt or Jerry. Jerry Nelson with the Steve, the
• 34:02
  taller puppeteers and those those boots were long gone.
• 34:07
  And I've gone up a couple of shoe sizes since then.
• 34:09
  So, a few years ago, I found literally found some
• 34:13
  Frankenstein boots on Amazon and whenever I'm out and I see
• 34:18
  platform shoes. It's like point.
• 34:21
  I'll hang on to It's just in case.
• 34:22
  So so I don't got my, my Frankenstein boots.
• 34:26
  Hmm, to to get the height. She she needed next to
• 34:32
  everybody. So it was, it was quite, it was
• 34:34
  quite a unit and, and having having Ingrid and Andrew, we
• 34:38
  needed the system. Puppeteers who could be told
• 34:41
  without being on boots, because we needed to be as stable as
• 34:43
  possible. And having two or three people
• 34:45
  on boots underneath. This thing just gets like a
• 34:48
  recipe for broken ankles right there.
• 34:49
  So So, so we figured that out and we rehearsed a few of the
• 34:56
  scenes. And what does she look like when
• 34:58
  she's sitting and eating eating the food and the soup?
• 35:01
  And what is she like when she's walking was she like when she's
• 35:04
  what she's thawing out and doing her staggering around?
• 35:08
  So we figured out what would, what would work for that?
• 35:12
  And but yeah, she was she was challenging.
• 35:16
  If any, if anything, just the, the physical challenge of
• 35:19
  getting all that torque kind of kind of For help lead to her to
• 35:24
  her grumpiness when she was when she was on the set.
• 35:28
  Yeah, I'm sure a lot of that. Yeah, that on Comfort comes up.
• 35:31
  The puppet. Yes, yes, we'd finish along take
• 35:34
  and and then she say, well, that happens, a lot of effort, I need
• 35:37
  to lay down now, okay? But she was still just the, just
• 35:43
  the energy of the character and just just the way it could could
• 35:48
  have her, you know, Act. Out and get grumpy and yell at
• 35:53
  people. And, and it was it was fun even
• 35:57
  even though it was challenging, I bet.
• 35:59
  Yeah. And I also, I mean, I just love
• 36:02
  the fact that she's so much larger than the other puppets.
• 36:05
  If only because later on in the series, when she is part of the
• 36:09
  big group scenes, it's a little bit more diversity in fraggle
• 36:13
  sizes, fraggle types because she can't Tower still Towers over
• 36:16
  everybody else. So it's kind of cool to see the
• 36:19
  show is still experimenting with like different types of Fraggle.
• 36:21
  Some different types of characters and also more
• 36:25
  characters that aren't just basically kids because we have
• 36:29
  the world's oldest fraggle and Storyteller and a couple others.
• 36:33
  But, you know, now we have I see Joe, who has, you know, a lot of
• 36:37
  experience, what you know, whether that's good experience
• 36:39
  or not or helpful or not. But yeah, I just love that
• 36:43
  diversity in Fraggle Rock. You mentioned.
• 36:47
  You also handle the eye mechanism for I see Joe.
• 36:50
  So how does that work? Work.
• 36:51
  And what hand was that in? So that was him in my
• 36:56
  left-handed. I'm right-handed so and I love
• 37:01
  having it having a chance to play with eyes because so much
• 37:08
  with with the the the acting of the head.
• 37:10
  We already have to stylize so much with with body language and
• 37:14
  hit attitudes to to get across certain things with with the
• 37:19
  puppets and there's there's you know, there's one style when Up,
• 37:22
  it has, has you know, no facial movement, no eyelids, like like
• 37:26
  red and that doesn't restrict her in any way.
• 37:28
  It's just it's just a different musical instrument that you play
• 37:31
  differently. So having a choice to play this
• 37:36
  other type of musical instrument with help being able to add the,
• 37:39
  the eye movements in there. I just enjoy that kind of
• 37:43
  performance music. And so whenever there's been a
• 37:47
  chance in the past, to perform characters, with, with eye
• 37:50
  movements, I just jump at it. It I enjoyed on on Labyrinth
• 37:55
  being able to control the eye, blinks in the eye turns for for
• 38:00
  the the worm and it could have been set up so that it was just
• 38:05
  me performing the puppet and someone else was doing the eyes
• 38:08
  but so much of my style of Performing is just it's very
• 38:13
  spontaneous and you know, there's a thing where you sit
• 38:17
  down with someone and you were hers for days and weeks to
• 38:20
  figure out. Okay, on this line I'm gonna In
• 38:21
  the lids down halfway. And then on this, you don't get
• 38:24
  into all that kind of detail, almost like the detail of the,
• 38:28
  the computer animation that that I also do.
• 38:31
  But to be able to be spontaneous with it and even make
• 38:35
  discoveries during the performance is something I
• 38:41
  really I really treasure and love love playing with.
• 38:44
  And maybe it's not technically is beautiful and exact as if it
• 38:49
  was really plotted out. But For me, it's just part of
• 38:55
  the, the spontaneity, and the and, and the energy.
• 38:59
  So with with I see Joe, each eyelid had a had a separate
• 39:03
  plunger. It was it was a little
• 39:06
  electronic control, not not cable and but still, it was
• 39:12
  connected by a cable, not not wireless, and so I could it
• 39:21
  Really helpful to, you know just raise one eyelid or have her
• 39:26
  have her look or eyelids change. We she was looking for one side
• 39:30
  to to the other and every once in a while my right and left on
• 39:35
  the monitors would get off and they might have done the wrong
• 39:39
  wondering, it takes like, oh well there we go, we're doing
• 39:42
  that. But it works for that kind of
• 39:44
  character, you know, where she's just a little confused.
• 39:48
  Yes. She's she's, she's very sweet.
• 39:50
  She can give her I'm very confused, but it was it was just
• 39:55
  so so fun to to to have that that different kind of visual
• 40:03
  language for a character. And it certainly helped her look
• 40:06
  even more threatening when she needed to look threatening with
• 40:09
  with with other other characters.
• 40:12
  Yeah. So, but yeah, that meant I
• 40:14
  couldn't, I couldn't do hands or anything else.
• 40:18
  But Ingrid and Andrew were To jump in there and work it with
• 40:23
  my style of performing which kind of really kind of vaguely
• 40:27
  what we're gonna do. But let's just see what happens
• 40:30
  when we're performing, right? And that's where you just kind
• 40:35
  of you, you just kind of get used to the, the unspoken
• 40:39
  energy. It's kind of like a jazz Jazz
• 40:42
  Ensemble. You just kind of you go with the
• 40:45
  flow and you see what happens, sometimes, it works.
• 40:47
  And sometimes it doesn't work, but most of the time.
• 40:49
  It's fun, right? You go with the flow.
• 40:51
  Oh, so you can go with the Joe. Yes.
• 40:54
  Oh I like that. Oh similar.
• 40:55
  Write that down. Oh, I like that.
• 40:58
  It's still that one. Still it.
• 41:00
  We interrupt this podcast for a special postcard from our uncle
• 41:04
  traveling, John's Heart, A glia and A fraggle fast fact.
• 41:09
  Today's fraggle fast. Fact, is I see.
• 41:11
  Joe has weird eyes how I see toes eyes are operated.
• 41:15
  So on Fraggle Rock back to the Rock episode 106.
• 41:19
  We meet. I see Joe, she's a legendary I
• 41:21
  go a brand new character for back to the Rock and she's
• 41:24
  performed brilliantly by the one.
• 41:26
  The only amazing Karen prowl and she's from a different time.
• 41:30
  So she's fraggles in that generation were a little bit
• 41:33
  bigger. They weren't well, at least I
• 41:35
  see Joe's case. They weren't very nice.
• 41:37
  We wanted her to have a lot of expression and, you know
• 41:41
  fraggles for the most part. The fraggle, puppets are very
• 41:44
  simple with the exception of mokey's, eyes that can open and
• 41:47
  close and Wembley's eyes that spin when he when bowls their
• 41:50
  eyes don't really move. Very simple hand puppets but we
• 41:53
  wanted. I see Joe to have the ability to
• 41:54
  squint and look angry. Look surprised.
• 41:57
  So the New York Creature Shop built.
• 41:59
  I see Joe. She's giant.
• 42:01
  By the way, she's a huge puppet. And they gave her these two,
• 42:04
  motorized eyelids, both eyes can, they can move
• 42:07
  independently, and both can fully open and fully closed and
• 42:10
  Karen prell would Puppeteer. I see Joe's mouth and do the
• 42:14
  voice. And then she had a hand control
• 42:16
  with these two buttons that control the eyelids on them and
• 42:20
  then Andrew Cooper. And Ingrid Hansen would assist.
• 42:23
  I see Joe so took three puppeteers to bring.
• 42:24
  I see Joe to life but Karen got so many Great Expressions out of
• 42:28
  her out of that puppet and I love that they were a motorized,
• 42:31
  they had this really smooth open and close movement, brilliantly
• 42:34
  designed by the Creature Shop and fun fact.
• 42:37
  Tom newbie who worked on the original Fraggle Rock.
• 42:39
  He's a genius at electronics and motors and and all those cool
• 42:43
  gizmos came back and helped design redesign, mokey's,
• 42:47
  eyelids and Wembley's eyes and contributing to.
• 42:50
  I see Joe as well. There's your 50, fast, backed.
• 42:53
  All right. Back to the podcast.
• 42:58
  The story here, I see. Joe has been in the ice for
• 43:02
  hundreds of years and we don't really get into it.
• 43:04
  But the first thing I'm thinking is like how everyone she knows
• 43:07
  is gone. And like I was so does mention
• 43:09
  that but like she doesn't seem to mind so much she's just kind
• 43:13
  of doing her own thing. Yeah.
• 43:15
  Yeah that was I wasn't sure because here that could be
• 43:19
  really grim and I was just trying to You know.
• 43:24
  Yeah. She she just moved through, be a
• 43:27
  fraggle and and then go says prove he's gone, it's like oh,
• 43:32
  okay. All right.
• 43:32
  No know what. Yeah, so stay right.
• 43:35
  Yeah, I, I it's, it would be interesting.
• 43:39
  That would be something interesting to explore if
• 43:42
  there's ever a chance. But for, for the, the needs for
• 43:48
  this story, it was, it was something just to briefly touch
• 43:52
  touch on, Acknowledge that there once you knew is not there
• 43:55
  anymore, but then just to kind of keep going with with what was
• 43:59
  happening in in, in this story and mainly because Global also
• 44:07
  needed you just be at that point, he was still just very
• 44:09
  excited and hero-worshipping and joyful.
• 44:12
  And, and Wembley was the one starting to have doubts.
• 44:15
  But trying to keep keep. I see Joe and gobos energy.
• 44:19
  More more positive and upbeat that.
• 44:23
  At that point. Yeah, definitely.
• 44:26
  There's a great moment. You mentioned this already, but
• 44:28
  there's a great puppetry moment where I see Joe kind of stands
• 44:31
  up out of the ice and she's just kind of test not her legs for
• 44:35
  the first time, in 100 years and like, getting those sea legs
• 44:38
  back. And first of all, it's just a
• 44:41
  cool puppetry moment. Because you know, you've met it
• 44:44
  out the puppeteers and you get to see her full-bodied and I
• 44:49
  know you've done a few shots like that in this series.
• 44:53
  Ready? Which I'm sure we've already
• 44:54
  spoken about how it's different from the old one, but I assume
• 44:59
  that you're wearing like all green or all blue and you're
• 45:03
  against a blue screen and you know, and or is it doesn't work
• 45:08
  a different way that I'm not aware of well, we actually,
• 45:10
  because we'd kind of we rehearse that a bit before before we were
• 45:14
  in the studio and kind of figured out one one, one way to
• 45:17
  make it work but then once we do, this actually ended up being
• 45:20
  shot not against For I said, Joe was a green screen because she
• 45:25
  has a lot of blue in her, some, right?
• 45:27
  So it was not against a green screen.
• 45:30
  We were actually in in the set with a lot of the physical set
• 45:35
  around us, so we had to kind of rethink what we had rehearsed
• 45:39
  and sometimes that that, that just happens.
• 45:42
  And so, little bit of a scramble and say, oh, actually, okay
• 45:47
  there's a bit of that set there. So you be there.
• 45:50
  Do we want one person doing each legs or tried that a bit?
• 45:52
  And on that, Work. Let's let's reach our okay.
• 45:54
  One person doing both legs. Okay, so there was there was a
• 45:57
  bit of on the set kind of last minute.
• 46:01
  We had a vague idea of. She's staggers this ways that
• 46:04
  goes that way and then kind of hits her.
• 46:07
  Her heroic pose at the end but took a little bit to figure out
• 46:13
  how to actually execute it. And got it, got it figured out
• 46:20
  and but we were so we We were all head to toe in.
• 46:25
  Well, at least down to the waist of green and part of part of
• 46:32
  that part of the set was also raised up on some some wooden
• 46:36
  wooden platforms to get the height above Wembley and, and
• 46:39
  Gobo. So there's a there's a lot going
• 46:42
  on there and then and we were just enough kind of overlapping
• 46:49
  I said Joe because she's so big that we had to wear our Hoods
• 46:53
  and look through the screen part of it.
• 46:56
  Sometimes if it's a smaller character, you can bend your
• 46:59
  head to the side and, and, and not have the hood on and be able
• 47:02
  to breathe and see the monitor properly.
• 47:04
  But for this, we just had to have have the full hoods on and
• 47:08
  then then have monitors all around and underneath.
• 47:10
  And, and so it was, it was quite quite a setup and quite a few
• 47:15
  takes sometimes we tried very elaborate things, sometimes we
• 47:19
  just kind of kept it, kept it simple and Recorded some some
• 47:26
  dialogue, but but also because it was so much noise and so many
• 47:30
  people even just calling out some instructions.
• 47:34
  Okay, 1 2 3, boom, hit the final pose.
• 47:37
  So ended up once it was in post and we knew what?
• 47:43
  What B they were going to use and what the energy was.
• 47:45
  And then the final vocals were done in post to kind of go with
• 47:50
  with the, the final Final Cut. Was a lot of yelling, a lot of
• 47:54
  noise, a lot of stomping around, people not quite being able to
• 47:59
  see, try to see monitors and reach all the body parts and
• 48:02
  coordinate and trying to keep trying trying to keep the
• 48:04
  gravity, the weight of the character properly over the
• 48:07
  legs. That's always tricky when you
• 48:09
  have several people doing a character because you can get
• 48:11
  going and then suddenly they're floating or the weight is over
• 48:14
  the wrong leg. And so we got, we got there, we
• 48:19
  got there in the end and is another thing that was was a
• 48:23
  very, very challenging and but it ended up working out and
• 48:28
  that's a case where you just shoot a bunch.
• 48:31
  And then the Geniuses and editing look through it and
• 48:35
  they're like, okay, and then they face in your, and they put
• 48:40
  it together. And how about, let's let's,
• 48:42
  let's cut to go on Wembley at this point.
• 48:44
  Okay. And come back.
• 48:45
  And right. Yeah, and figure it all out.
• 48:48
  So yeah, that's the kind of thing.
• 48:51
  You, you kind of assembled the wrong.
• 48:53
  Gradients, when you're shooting on the floor and then the final
• 48:55
  recipe comes together in the, the edit with with, with all the
• 49:01
  cuts and, and with the the visual effects, and the sounds
• 49:05
  and and even the music that they that they put over it.
• 49:10
  Sure. Yeah.
• 49:11
  Well, I thought that the whole really does.
• 49:14
  Yeah, I love how the whole thing else.
• 49:17
  Also ends were like, you said I see Joe kind of strikes this
• 49:20
  pose and it's this like Captain Morgan pose.
• 49:23
  That matches the statue that we saw earlier.
• 49:26
  So like this is like she is just fitting right into this.
• 49:30
  This legend that has been built around her.
• 49:33
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. A nice little visual cue there.
• 49:36
  So Gobo and Wembley take, I see Joe back to Fraggle Rock and
• 49:40
  already. She's like deep into insulting.
• 49:43
  Everybody is every every opportunity, she calls, Gobo
• 49:47
  soft, she calls Wembley slow, she snaps at mochi.
• 49:53
  Steals Reds hammock. I like that.
• 49:56
  She boober who, like, basically prepared this Feast for her a
• 50:01
  culinary tribute to the radish puree.
• 50:04
  Souffles hoorays she calls his food to clean we and it might
• 50:11
  she does. In my day, we ate our radishes
• 50:12
  straight up dirt first. Yeah, she has just just all the,
• 50:19
  all the, the fussiness in the, in the, the ceremony, maybe
• 50:25
  that's why, she was kind of a loner back, back in and her day,
• 50:31
  that she can't deal with, with all of that, or else maybe all
• 50:36
  of the ancient fraggles of that time.
• 50:38
  Didn't do anything like that. So that was just all all new to
• 50:41
  her. Yeah, that was it was like you
• 50:43
  know when they first saw her, how she says oh I'm not hungry
• 50:45
  but her stomach Olds and their I think by the time she gets to
• 50:50
  the festival, she is hangry. And then all this stuff is
• 50:55
  happening and she just wants to eat and they're doing this and
• 50:59
  they're doing that and making her the reddish cream.
• 51:02
  Queen with the crown in the bouquet and she just wants to
• 51:06
  eat. Why is everybody singing?
• 51:09
  Oh my gosh. Oh, so yeah, yeah, it was It's
• 51:17
  just, she's pretty overwhelmed had been, you know, Frozen for
• 51:20
  hundreds of years. She's hungry.
• 51:22
  All these people are singing and food is coming and going in
• 51:26
  front of her. And she just wants to eat and
• 51:27
  all this and all these new people that this is pretty
• 51:30
  overwhelming. And so and she's, you know what,
• 51:37
  what she feels is what she says and what she, what she does and
• 51:41
  and maybe back in her day. Everybody was like that.
• 51:44
  I don't know, I don't know. But There was definitely not not
• 51:50
  what these fraggles were used to, and it was really thin line,
• 51:54
  I didn't want to play it, like she enjoyed being nasty, but she
• 52:01
  was just, you know, just thinking of her of her own
• 52:03
  needs. And, and, and if you know, if
• 52:08
  feeling overwhelmed, just just trying to dismiss people and try
• 52:12
  to try to at the same time, like in You know, she was feeling
• 52:21
  that this value of being being being worshipped and it was it
• 52:26
  was it was wasn't exactly decided.
• 52:29
  And I kept asking a lot of these, these questions in
• 52:32
  development, is that how much was she worshipped in her in her
• 52:36
  original day, or was she kind of an outcast and then all this
• 52:41
  that's happening to her, it's overwhelming and just angry and
• 52:44
  she just wants to eat, but at the same time they're
• 52:46
  worshipping her. And oh, that's kind of cool that
• 52:48
  maybe that's something. Her.
• 52:49
  And she she she enjoys it. So there's a there's a lot of
• 52:54
  complicated things happening happening happening with her and
• 53:01
  so so yeah playing these things where she's just being like
• 53:06
  super, super rude and and just just you know, having fun with
• 53:12
  it and having it challenged the other characters but also not
• 53:18
  having her be Be like a full-on selfish selfish villain.
• 53:24
  So, it was, it was, it was a complicated complicated line to
• 53:29
  follow with this show. Yeah.
• 53:31
  Oh I'm sure yes. Especially, you know, Fraggle
• 53:33
  Rock does not have a lot of villains like the gorgs come
• 53:37
  close but we do redeem them by the end of the series.
• 53:40
  You know, we got I don't remember wander mcmooch.
• 53:42
  Like in the original series he looks he was the one and I know
• 53:45
  that Larry Merkin lead the original Producer for the
• 53:50
  original series and he's even talked about.
• 53:52
  That was the one character that they almost kind of regretted in
• 53:58
  both of the sizes. He inhabited, as his right.
• 54:01
  Yes, it's like, oh my gosh, he's driven sizes.
• 54:04
  Oh, well, let's not talk about that, but he was kind of a full.
• 54:10
  He was kind of one character was almost as kind of a full-on
• 54:14
  billion who didn't really get redeemed.
• 54:16
  He got kind of His, you know, his powers threatened enough
• 54:22
  that he just kind of left. But yeah, you know, we and
• 54:28
  certainly with, with the, the gorgs, we tried to see where
• 54:32
  they were coming from, right? Yeah.
• 54:35
  And with with I see Joe, even though we didn't really get to
• 54:38
  see where she was coming from and tried to drop enough, hints
• 54:42
  of the good and the and the the the innocent and the overwhelmed
• 54:48
  and Angry with, in her people. Hopefully, no, she's not a bad
• 54:55
  character. Just misunderstood and hungry.
• 54:58
  You know. Everybody gets like that.
• 55:00
  You mustn't. You must get like that when you
• 55:01
  get angry. Oh, man.
• 55:03
  Yeah, you know, it is not easy. Yes.
• 55:07
  That's where my icing. This comes in.
• 55:08
  Yeah, when I get along. So in the scene, the fraggles
• 55:13
  sing the song, Sharon, you're not alone, which is a song from
• 55:16
  the original series from the episode Cave of Wonders.
• 55:19
  One's own. This song was originally sung by
• 55:21
  Mochi and red, do you, do you remember singing this one?
• 55:24
  The first time? Oh, yes.
• 55:26
  Oh yeah. That was that was fun.
• 55:31
  And that was and it was also you know, in both times that song is
• 55:35
  sung. It's like it's his cheerful Song
• 55:37
  and all this annoying stuff is happening during the songs of
• 55:42
  the right, there's other levels in the original, it's like we're
• 55:46
  trying to have a party and there's no room in the room.
• 55:49
  And and people are getting annoyed and confused and we're
• 55:53
  trying to sound cheerful while we're saying in the song.
• 55:55
  It's so yeah, it's a just a fun, fun fun song from Girl Denison
• 56:04
  Phil and and a really fun song to to have that kind of energy
• 56:11
  once again everybody. Everybody is into it and and
• 56:15
  really excited about it. And it's such a contrast to why
• 56:18
  I see Joe Joe is is is feeling so I'm so glad we got a chance
• 56:23
  to explore that that that song again and then when she just
• 56:29
  blows up at the end, it's such a fun, fun contrast to all the joy
• 56:37
  and celebration and and all the amazing radish food.
• 56:42
  I know it actually looks really good.
• 56:45
  Look like real food, the the props people, The Creature Shop,
• 56:51
  you know, it was a lot of work, it was a lot of work, but just,
• 56:54
  it was just just, like, on the original series.
• 56:56
  People, see this, and the team would say, huh?
• 57:00
  It's going to be so much work, it's gonna be so much fun.
• 57:02
  And they just, they just went nuts with all the radish food
• 57:07
  and and the different thing looks so good.
• 57:09
  Really, it look really good. And so trying to make it look,
• 57:14
  you know, fun and colorful but still you know light lightweight
• 57:18
  you know, a lot of plastic. Styrofoam and hot glue, right?
• 57:21
  And so that way, you know, people could still carry it with
• 57:27
  their, with their, with their puppets.
• 57:29
  And so, yeah, they just, they just went to town on this.
• 57:33
  This whole, this whole seriousness seems just one one
• 57:36
  example of it just just going nuts with, with, with this, you
• 57:43
  know, this fun celebration of Fraggle food and and and
• 57:49
  Something positive about Bluebird that he's not just, you
• 57:52
  know, this this down guy who's, who's hiding and and thinking
• 57:56
  about death, death in laundry. But see in this, this part, part
• 58:00
  of him or he's really, really enlivened by all the, the
• 58:07
  different, the different food. And I love the little scene
• 58:10
  beforehand where he's, he's given the marching orders to all
• 58:14
  of his cooks with with the food. So I Of touching on on that.
• 58:20
  On that part of uber for this show.
• 58:22
  Yeah, that was his General Patton moment?
• 58:25
  I think yes, right. So despite all of this Gobo
• 58:31
  still thinks that I see, Joe is great.
• 58:35
  I see Joe invites Gobo and Wembley to come exploring with
• 58:37
  her and so goes to tell the good news to Wembley.
• 58:41
  I love this moment where wimbley is practicing a magic act and
• 58:44
  he's practicing pulling a rabbit out of a hat but it's an Ink
• 58:48
  Spot. Wearing, yes.
• 58:49
  But here's but here's I love. Well, that, I mean also like I'm
• 58:55
  a big fan of the Ink Spots. Everyone should be, but I am a
• 58:57
  huge fan of those in spots and to see one in bunny ears inside
• 59:00
  of a hat was just too adorable for me.
• 59:05
  Yeah. This this this was this show.
• 59:07
  Really Jordan just did a great job of this.
• 59:13
  This whole journey that Wembley goes on from being one of the
• 59:17
  most excited people during the I see Joe song and then seeing,
• 59:23
  you know, having doubts about this character and and you know,
• 59:28
  and having this Rift with with Gobo about it when it just gets
• 59:33
  to be so, so, so extreme, so yeah, just just, you know, it's
• 59:40
  this wonderful. Wonderful story and and, and
• 59:43
  script and and, and heaven heaven wimbley go.
• 59:49
  Author. All that all that, that growth
• 59:52
  and then Johnny just in the opposite direction.
• 59:54
  Just being ridiculously, hero-worshipping of of, I see
• 1:00:00
  Joe and just just seeing this or how far how far down that path.
• 1:00:05
  He can he can go with it until his he opens up to what's to
• 1:00:12
  what's really. Really?
• 1:00:14
  Yeah well and as we lead up to that Wembley, it has an almost
• 1:00:18
  uncanny. Characteristic moment, although
• 1:00:20
  it is well-earned where he tells Gobo that for someone who wants
• 1:00:25
  to advance, fraggle kind, I see. Joe is not very kind of fraggles
• 1:00:29
  and he's right now. Yeah, he kind of has that took a
• 1:00:36
  lot out of me moments of, you know, that we saw from, you
• 1:00:39
  know, Fozzie Bear in great Muppet Caper or like yeah.
• 1:00:42
  It takes a lot to stand up and tell your friends.
• 1:00:44
  What's what? Yeah, especially like a friend
• 1:00:47
  that you really do. Like you look up So much you
• 1:00:49
  like Fozzie does to Kermit like Wembley does to go bow and to
• 1:00:53
  like I can't just be your sidekick on this one buddy.
• 1:00:56
  I gotta I gotta really, you know, protect you from what
• 1:01:00
  you're not seeing. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:05
  Just you know some really really, really good.
• 1:01:09
  Good depth. I mean Douglas Lions.
• 1:01:13
  Just just just came up with some some amazing beautiful.
• 1:01:19
  Points to hit in this, in this show and, and, and then just
• 1:01:25
  just just figuring out how to each of us, dig deep to our
• 1:01:29
  various characters, just just get giving us all some, some new
• 1:01:36
  challenging places to to, to explore with, still some, you
• 1:01:42
  know, some fun joyful moment and it's a good example.
• 1:01:49
  Of Fraggle, Rock showing that the challenges aren't aren't
• 1:01:54
  always external and there's a lot of internal challenges and,
• 1:01:59
  and insights, and bravery needed to, to grow.
• 1:02:04
  And, and, and learn. And sometimes take personal
• 1:02:08
  responsibility for, for things that that you might be doing
• 1:02:14
  that might be adding to, to the challenges.
• 1:02:16
  So there's just all kinds of gems.
• 1:02:19
  Like that in this script, definitely.
• 1:02:23
  Well, I see Joe and Gobo head off on their own and go doesn't
• 1:02:27
  realize. They're not just exploring.
• 1:02:29
  They are traveling into the cave to retrieved.
• 1:02:32
  Treasure Gobo tells I see Joe. That is not why fraggles
• 1:02:37
  Explorer, which is giving me definitely like like Vibes of.
• 1:02:41
  I see Joe being the anti traveling Matt.
• 1:02:45
  You know, they have opposite ways of you know, exploring They
• 1:02:49
  really do have opposite ways of thinking I see.
• 1:02:51
  Joe is, is not a dumb character, like, she's smart.
• 1:02:55
  She's just hard to like, and troubled Galaxy opposite.
• 1:02:59
  He's very likeable, but like he's a little Daft.
• 1:03:02
  So maybe maybe in season two, we can get those two cats together.
• 1:03:06
  I know. I know there's this kind of a,
• 1:03:10
  if there's ever a chance to have an Explorer off between, I see
• 1:03:14
  Joe. And Matt, there's, there's
• 1:03:17
  something there. Yeah, Uncle traveling.
• 1:03:21
  Matt really didn't weigh in on all of that stuff.
• 1:03:23
  There's so much going on in this show probably adding him to to
• 1:03:27
  the mix at the point of, you know, they're all of them.
• 1:03:32
  All discovering each other would just be kind of too much going
• 1:03:35
  on. But yeah.
• 1:03:37
  Hopefully they'll be a chance sometime to see what what that
• 1:03:41
  means. Hmm.
• 1:03:43
  I'd like that, I'd be down for ya so it turns out that this
• 1:03:48
  treasure that they're going After is the treasure that I
• 1:03:50
  see. Joe was coming after hundreds of
• 1:03:52
  years ago and she never got it. This is this is like her main
• 1:03:55
  goal and she just wants to add it to her collection, although I
• 1:03:58
  have a feeling her collection is probably long gone.
• 1:04:00
  This might be the first part of her over her new collection and
• 1:04:06
  she literally just tries to toss go, but which I think is.
• 1:04:08
  Yeah. But like that's the only reason
• 1:04:10
  she wanted him there. Let's because leader, small not
• 1:04:12
  liking. I can throw you.
• 1:04:15
  Yeah. And and the way, the way I
• 1:04:18
  thought of it, It was. Was.
• 1:04:22
  Yeah, it is her plan but she's she's she's not like this evil
• 1:04:31
  Evil Genius that has, you know, you get the shiny thing.
• 1:04:34
  And then this, it's like first of all, to the way I thought it
• 1:04:39
  was like it's a shiny thing. I am must have this.
• 1:04:42
  Anything? Mmm-hmm is it?
• 1:04:44
  She and I'm afraid. Go and a shiny thing is on a
• 1:04:47
  fraggle needs. So, so I didn't think Her, you
• 1:04:52
  know, concerning and means of wealth or something.
• 1:04:56
  I kind of imagine that maybe if you opened up all the layers of
• 1:05:00
  her stuff, she might just have all these things I've collected
• 1:05:03
  and that's the shiniest and I must have it.
• 1:05:05
  You know, she just kind of thinking of it just to that
• 1:05:07
  level and once you get the shiny thing, now what something else?
• 1:05:12
  Yes, it's not like she becomes, you know, the the king with the
• 1:05:16
  treasurer Scrooge McDuck. Yeah, Hall of gold or something.
• 1:05:20
  It's It's just like it's just a tiny thing and I must have it
• 1:05:24
  cool. If I bring Global with me I can
• 1:05:25
  throw them up and that's probably the extent of her
• 1:05:28
  planning. That's probably about as far as
• 1:05:30
  she's capable of thing. If I get Global.
• 1:05:32
  I know I can throw him and he can get it and you know have the
• 1:05:35
  shiny thing right? And that's it.
• 1:05:37
  Yeah. Right.
• 1:05:39
  Because he chose not yet learned to treat fraggles.
• 1:05:42
  Like people are like fraggles. Yeah.
• 1:05:45
  And she's gonna figure on this episode.
• 1:05:47
  Yeah. And maybe thinking that way is
• 1:05:49
  what letter to be an outcast. From her original group of
• 1:05:54
  fraggles. So who knows?
• 1:05:56
  But but yeah and and you know, when wimbley didn't want to come
• 1:06:01
  along it's like oh well don't have a front of me but I have a
• 1:06:03
  global. I think that'll work.
• 1:06:05
  Okay, I can throw a girl. Okay.
• 1:06:07
  You know and so so she she she's not yet capable of Thinking
• 1:06:12
  Beyond anything kind of beyond that or why Wembley family
• 1:06:17
  didn't want to come along. So, Yeah, so so that's kind of
• 1:06:22
  the extent of her of her planning.
• 1:06:24
  Absolutely. When Gobo is now seeing her for
• 1:06:28
  who she is, he's refusing to help her.
• 1:06:30
  She's using her pickaxe to try to climb and the kind of
• 1:06:36
  triggers another ice fall or was I don't know what you would
• 1:06:40
  call. That's kind of an avalanche.
• 1:06:42
  And now they're both stuck in the ice and we're just going to
• 1:06:46
  be here for a few hundred years. Sorry Gobo.
• 1:06:48
  Yes, you back the wrong horse. That's where that she didn't
• 1:06:52
  think of that far in advance was I was probably still hungry.
• 1:06:57
  I didn't have enough radishes, so I wasn't thinking clearly.
• 1:07:00
  Well, it only happened once before who'da.
• 1:07:02
  Thought it would hate a second time.
• 1:07:03
  Anyone's way to pass chances, you know.
• 1:07:05
  So, yeah. So so throwing throwing Gobo
• 1:07:12
  that, that, that didn't work. And then then that and because
• 1:07:16
  that was the extent of her planning.
• 1:07:18
  She had to fall back to when I do last time.
• 1:07:21
  Oh yes, I did this. I will do that thing again,
• 1:07:23
  right? Right?
• 1:07:24
  Yeah. Getting how that ended up until
• 1:07:26
  it was too lazy. Oh, oh no.
• 1:07:28
  Oh, okay, this this happen again.
• 1:07:31
  Oh, okay, yeah, I'll try to get a few hundred years.
• 1:07:35
  Yeah, yep. So now we have our, I think we
• 1:07:40
  call this an elevator moment where, you know, we have two
• 1:07:42
  carriages who are stuck in an elevator in a sitcom.
• 1:07:45
  And as long as we're stuck together, let's have a heart to
• 1:07:46
  heart. She tells us, she tells Gobo
• 1:07:50
  that Got her name, not for the ice that she explored, but for
• 1:07:53
  the ice in her heart which is very sad.
• 1:07:57
  And also she says that Gobo is the closest thing that she's
• 1:08:00
  ever had to a friend which is double sad because she doesn't
• 1:08:03
  even seem to like him. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:06
  It's like she's a finally. It takes you this you know an
• 1:08:10
  extreme physical crisis that she can't you know, luster her way
• 1:08:16
  out of almost there are similarities to To read in
• 1:08:21
  marooned. Hmm, you know where she's you
• 1:08:24
  know, in Maroon, she hit your point of Crisis.
• 1:08:27
  She's used to being able to physically or vocally Bluster
• 1:08:32
  her way through things, and this is something where that is,
• 1:08:36
  absolutely not an option. And with with, with I see Joe
• 1:08:41
  and it forces her to to think. I don't, I don't know how much
• 1:08:46
  she had a chance to think things through the first time she was
• 1:08:50
  trapped or she Quick Frozen. But but, of course, this time,
• 1:08:54
  she's not fully Frozen and she has someone with her and and so
• 1:09:00
  it's just enough to make her stop and think.
• 1:09:05
  And and, you know, bless bless Gobo and Johnny's beautiful
• 1:09:12
  hearts just to be able to, to say which with such, you know,
• 1:09:18
  with his personal Insight that he's been going.
• 1:09:21
  I'm through. But doing what?
• 1:09:23
  What fraggles do is connecting with, with, with each other, and
• 1:09:28
  helping each helping each other with with our internal
• 1:09:31
  challenges and, and, and, and insight.
• 1:09:36
  So, just to be able to make that connection with, with I see Joe,
• 1:09:40
  and for her to realize, oh, this just, this is a friend.
• 1:09:45
  Well, that's new. I like that.
• 1:09:48
  It's almost as good as I say anything.
• 1:09:51
  And it's pretty nice. If I can't have the shiny thing,
• 1:09:53
  having your friend is good, but oh we're trapped in the ice
• 1:09:55
  again, what's going to happen? So yeah, yeah, haven't having
• 1:10:00
  that moment of thought and and inside just to just to Redeemer
• 1:10:07
  and set her on a new path that will help her fit into her her
• 1:10:12
  new home with with the the fraggles.
• 1:10:15
  But oh they need to be rescued first.
• 1:10:17
  So what happens next? Joe?
• 1:10:19
  I'll tell you what happens next. Turns out when we had hidden a
• 1:10:23
  doozer tube and Goebbels backpack and he's been listening
• 1:10:26
  the whole time and he knows that they need help.
• 1:10:28
  So he slides in on a cafeteria tray, which we did gloss over
• 1:10:32
  where would that came from? You'll have to watch the episode
• 1:10:34
  and figure it out and saves the day.
• 1:10:37
  They're out of the ice and now Gobo has a new hero.
• 1:10:41
  It's not. I see Joe anymore.
• 1:10:42
  It's his buddy Wembley. Yeah.
• 1:10:44
  Yeah but you know, I see Joe does try to think them but her
• 1:10:47
  voice is triggering another cave in because she's got a very
• 1:10:50
  strong Voice on. They gotta gotta hot foot.
• 1:10:53
  Yep. Oh yeah.
• 1:10:55
  That was. That was, that was tricky
• 1:10:57
  because we were using the restore.
• 1:10:58
  Some Plastics know there was some Kind of, you know, no, real
• 1:11:04
  snow or ice but something that was more paper there.
• 1:11:08
  There's like this mixture of all different kinds of Snows and
• 1:11:10
  then, you know, some some, some styrofoam and some kind of just
• 1:11:15
  kind of almost like sheets of batting with with bits of snow
• 1:11:21
  and spring. Like, every, every kind of snow
• 1:11:23
  cheat we were using all of them on this, right?
• 1:11:26
  And then once the the Avalanche happened and there was a lot of
• 1:11:29
  snow and I still had my icy icy jobu.
• 1:11:32
  Son. And, and this, like, I haven't
• 1:11:34
  had to run and I was, I was saying, I should know, is not
• 1:11:36
  gonna be able to run in these boots.
• 1:11:37
  So so just trying to just just kind of, you know, figure out
• 1:11:41
  what's the, the minimum that I can run with people around me at
• 1:11:46
  three of us together, and, and dodging between all, we had all
• 1:11:50
  the little ice literally platforms with with ice on them
• 1:11:54
  and snow coming down and wearing goggles because of the snow.
• 1:11:59
  And, and, and so We do some with some run-throughs, without the
• 1:12:04
  snow and figure out, you know, where all these these five
• 1:12:11
  bodies of people going through these little snow tunnels, how
• 1:12:14
  we going to work with reacting and running out quick, without
• 1:12:17
  falling over without bumping into the snow without bumping
• 1:12:20
  into each other. So we were her stood a few times
• 1:12:24
  and then, okay, we're gonna wheee going for it.
• 1:12:26
  So then got it done. So yeah, it was, that was not
• 1:12:30
  technically a lot, a lot. Complicated stuff happening.
• 1:12:34
  But Paul Fox the the director he was really juggling juggling a
• 1:12:40
  lot. Just just he had worked with
• 1:12:42
  with puppet Productions before, but there were just a lot of a
• 1:12:45
  lot of new challenges in this this show and our crew was a
• 1:12:51
  amazing. We we've done six, six shows up
• 1:12:58
  to that point. Well, let's see, we kind of
• 1:12:59
  broke things up into bits and pieces.
• 1:13:02
  Isis. So sure.
• 1:13:04
  Yeah so our our our crew was kind of up to speed by the time
• 1:13:09
  we got to to this episode and so but they yeah they worked hard.
• 1:13:14
  Just just trying to figure out all these these challenges and
• 1:13:19
  so, yeah, Paul really, really upped his.
• 1:13:22
  His puppet directing game like the song with.
• 1:13:25
  I see that. I see Joe song, the song with
• 1:13:28
  the radishes and then all the snow, and the thawing and the
• 1:13:31
  ow. Lunches, and, and things.
• 1:13:34
  And he came through it, with with, with great, with great
• 1:13:38
  humor. And with with, with awesome
• 1:13:41
  creative ideas, how to how to make things work.
• 1:13:43
  And some things had to, you know, all of us freaking out
• 1:13:47
  some some cheats or compromises to get through all these these,
• 1:13:51
  these creative challenges. But it was, it was, it was good.
• 1:13:55
  I'm glad we got a chance to do a show like this.
• 1:13:58
  Absolutely, I'm glad that you made it out.
• 1:14:00
  Okay, or else? I see Joe would be stuck.
• 1:14:02
  In that ice for another another hundred years.
• 1:14:04
  We wouldn't get more. Yes.
• 1:14:07
  So we got her back to Fraggle Rock.
• 1:14:09
  Safe and sound. Her heart is starting to warm a
• 1:14:12
  bit. She's slightly less.
• 1:14:14
  I see but still pretty. I see Joe.
• 1:14:16
  She is making an effort to learn all the fraggles names.
• 1:14:19
  She's being kind to complimenting boobers soup, you
• 1:14:23
  know, it starts small and then she's exhausted.
• 1:14:26
  She falls asleep on top of red. And I mean that This has been a
• 1:14:32
  fun mood for you just like, having your two key characters,
• 1:14:36
  just like on top of each other like that.
• 1:14:38
  Yes, yes. So Ellie Ellie Eisner is was my
• 1:14:45
  main assistant for, for performing red.
• 1:14:48
  So so, so they were performing red and for for that, that whole
• 1:14:56
  scene, I think that was that was one scene where he shooting at
• 1:14:59
  the end of the day. It's like, we got to go, we got
• 1:15:01
  to go. So, I think Ellie even covered
• 1:15:04
  like, all allred's close-ups but they're, they're just so such a
• 1:15:07
  fun, fun character, and, and really tapped into tapped into
• 1:15:11
  to read, Reds energy. So, so they handle read.
• 1:15:14
  And I was just, I and my crew, we were, we were all I see Joe
• 1:15:19
  and, and intently figure out, okay.
• 1:15:23
  She's going to lay on red, but we don't want to break her
• 1:15:25
  pigtails. And this puppet, right?
• 1:15:28
  It's three people. We don't want to fold over on
• 1:15:31
  red and Ellie. So it's like I'm figuring out
• 1:15:34
  all that kind of stuff. And but yes, nice.
• 1:15:38
  A nice fun way to, to wrap it up, that Isidro has some
• 1:15:42
  insight, but she's still just going to be big.
• 1:15:46
  Big and and blunt and challenging to to, to be around.
• 1:15:55
  But just a really, really sweet way to wrap it all.
• 1:15:59
  Absolutely. Yeah, it's cute.
• 1:16:00
  And again like I'm really glad that this is not the end of.
• 1:16:03
  I see Joe, we do get more of her in later episodes.
• 1:16:05
  I'm sure we will cover that later on this podcast.
• 1:16:09
  Yes. But for now we're going to end
• 1:16:11
  this episode back with Doc and sprocket right where we started
• 1:16:14
  and Doc is showing off her wall of, she Rose and sprocket
• 1:16:21
  suggest that doc put herself on her own wall of she Rose.
• 1:16:24
  And she, of course, in turn. Also puts up a picture of
• 1:16:27
  sprocket because he is one of her Heroes, which is a really
• 1:16:30
  nice way to celebrate how hero worship can be.
• 1:16:34
  A very good thing. Despite the fact that we just
• 1:16:36
  saw 22 minutes about how it can also be a toxic thing.
• 1:16:40
  Karen, do you have someone that you would put on your wall of
• 1:16:43
  she Rose? Oh my Gosh.
• 1:16:48
  Well, you know, we had a lot of sheroes with this with this,
• 1:16:54
  this new production of Fraggle Fraggle Rock having so many
• 1:17:02
  women in production and directing and writing roles and
• 1:17:08
  even like the whole cast and crew, just a lot more of a
• 1:17:14
  diverse crew. And I think that that brought a
• 1:17:18
  lot of insight and and growth to to the hole to hold production.
• 1:17:28
  So there's not enough room on my wall for all of my she Rose and
• 1:17:34
  heroes that were on this on this production.
• 1:17:38
  That's a good answer. Good answer.
• 1:17:39
  Yeah, not leaving. Anybody out there and I'm sure
• 1:17:42
  that you are on many people's wall as One who has been so
• 1:17:47
  influential with the Muppet world for so long and in the
• 1:17:49
  puppetry world and in the animation world and etcetera.
• 1:17:53
  Etc. So for that, I am very grateful
• 1:17:56
  that you were able to join us on this podcast.
• 1:17:59
  Do you have any other memories of this episode before we start
• 1:18:02
  wrapping up that you wanted to share?
• 1:18:05
  Oh gosh. I think, I think we covered a
• 1:18:10
  lot of it, but I'm definitely, definitely thankful that there
• 1:18:18
  were chances to explore. I see Joe, and later and later
• 1:18:21
  episodes, and if you needed someone to be loud or knock
• 1:18:26
  things over, she was a good. It was a good character to bring
• 1:18:31
  in or just someone big, who could hold things up.
• 1:18:38
  Some of the strength e. So I'm glad it was the start of
• 1:18:43
  a really fun adventure with a new, a new character in Fraggle,
• 1:18:48
  Rock absolutely. Well, Karen, thank you again for
• 1:18:52
  joining us on this episode is been such a treat to get, to
• 1:18:57
  talk to you and, to geek out over over red, and Fraggle,
• 1:19:01
  Rock. And I see Joe and more and more
• 1:19:03
  and more. I hope we'll get to do this
• 1:19:05
  again. Sometime soon.
• 1:19:07
  And in the meantime that brings us to the end of another episode
• 1:19:12
  of Fraggle talk, but stay tuned as tough pigs own.
• 1:19:15
  Beth cook talks more about the themes of this episode and our
• 1:19:18
  dive deeper segments coming up next.
• 1:19:21
  Well, thank you Joe. Thank you, tough pigs.
• 1:19:23
  And thank you to all the fans of tough pigs.
• 1:19:26
  And I hope you enjoy the rest of the fraggle Adventures.
• 1:19:30
  This podcast is going to bring you on.
• 1:19:42
  Welcome to dig deeper. This is Beth cook and I am
• 1:19:45
  joined once again by executive producer and president
• 1:19:47
  television, at the Jim Henson company Hallie Stanford.
• 1:19:50
  And we were talking about episode 106, the legend of I see
• 1:19:54
  do. Yes, the legend of I see Joe,
• 1:19:57
  she doesn't live up to her Legend.
• 1:20:01
  I was so glad that Karen proud. Got another amazing character.
• 1:20:05
  I see Joe is an unexpected force of nature.
• 1:20:11
  She is a force. She's like, she's almost like
• 1:20:13
  the fraggle Neanderthal, right? Like you're like, who like she's
• 1:20:16
  huge. She's a big puppet.
• 1:20:18
  I will tell you. Karen had to wear a special like
• 1:20:21
  brace to hold her up. She's a big puppet that I see
• 1:20:24
  Joe, that's a nice. Now, the a big mouth and I love
• 1:20:28
  the cheese. Larger than Life in the
• 1:20:32
  legendary sense. You know, we start out, knowing
• 1:20:37
  almost nothing about her except that everyone loves and Revere's
• 1:20:40
  her and that that wonderful line.
• 1:20:44
  We know that she's a hero because the stories tell us.
• 1:20:46
  So yes, isn't that wonderful? Yeah.
• 1:20:49
  Well, that really actually that line in that song really, just
• 1:20:51
  that just sums up the whole episode.
• 1:20:52
  I mean, this was a really important topic that we wanted
• 1:20:56
  to Showcase in the show that, you know, I, you know, the kids
• 1:20:59
  Courts are discovering in school right now.
• 1:21:02
  How much of the curriculum is Shifting, for example,
• 1:21:06
  Christopher Columbus, hello no, thank you.
• 1:21:09
  No. Thank you Christopher Columbus.
• 1:21:11
  So we you know, they're learning like Heroes and you know figures
• 1:21:15
  of history that as a child you know, we have taught for where
• 1:21:19
  one thing or actually something different.
• 1:21:22
  But then I think at the time that we were making progress,
• 1:21:25
  Rock and the songs are being written, here are seeing this
• 1:21:27
  everywhere. We were seeing it.
• 1:21:29
  People that we believe to be, you know, our leaders or people
• 1:21:32
  that we cared about historically, but also in the
• 1:21:37
  present day suddenly things are being revealed about them that
• 1:21:41
  we're incredibly troubling, and disappointing, and sometimes
• 1:21:45
  terrifying. So you've got to, you know, this
• 1:21:48
  thing with this dig deeper, we're really encouraging kids
• 1:21:52
  to, you know, look at both sides of somebody, dig a little
• 1:21:55
  deeper. Look at, look at the facts
• 1:21:58
  behind your Heroes and leaders know who you're putting up on a
• 1:22:02
  pedestal and why. So anyway, it just felt so
• 1:22:08
  timely and yet will be something.
• 1:22:10
  I feel that generations of Children and Families will be
• 1:22:14
  able to go back to and look, you know, you know, in the past on
• 1:22:18
  the another other characters and heroes from their past I'd love
• 1:22:25
  to hear a little bit about what went into choosing, who went
• 1:22:29
  into Doc's wall of Shiro's. Oh well, I'm laughing, because
• 1:22:37
  honestly, it was one of the hardest projects we did on
• 1:22:41
  Fraggle, Rock. It really was because not only
• 1:22:45
  did we need to show a diverse range of women, you know, women
• 1:22:49
  of color different ages, but also wanting to show From
• 1:22:54
  history and women that are modern.
• 1:22:57
  So it was really hard. And then on top of that, we had
• 1:23:01
  to see who would give us permission to share the, the
• 1:23:07
  images of our hero. So it was, it was hard.
• 1:23:13
  Let me just say that right now. A lot of a lot of thought, and
• 1:23:18
  phone calls and letters being written went into putting that
• 1:23:22
  Shira wall and everybody Buddy wants to have one but on Fraggle
• 1:23:26
  Rock. We actually had to get the
• 1:23:27
  rights clear for this one. So I hope that we encouraged
• 1:23:31
  little girls everywhere to make their own and little boys back
• 1:23:35
  girls and boys are ready to make their Shiro walls but we did.
• 1:23:40
  We did have to get ours cleared. Yeah, I love that.
• 1:23:44
  That segment wrapped up with sprocket insisting, that dock
• 1:23:47
  herself needs to go up on the wall of inspirational women.
• 1:23:51
  Isn't that great because you know what?
• 1:23:53
  You don't have to Famous right, to make a difference.
• 1:23:56
  And that's something that I teach my kids every day.
• 1:23:58
  Like, you just have to, like, put your voice out in the world
• 1:24:02
  and be a dreamer and doer. And that's, that's all that
• 1:24:04
  matters, you know? And you don't have to even be
• 1:24:07
  put on some and share a while, you could be put, like I'm, you
• 1:24:10
  know, sprocket just that's that's for him, right?
• 1:24:12
  Like you're my inspiration. And that's enough that one
• 1:24:16
  person can make a difference. And I love that moment to and
• 1:24:19
  then she wants to put sprocket up to.
• 1:24:22
  So that's It's a Lovely Mess. Message but it's real right?
• 1:24:27
  Like that's that comes back to Fraggle Rock.
• 1:24:29
  Like even one fraggle, one doozer, one gorg one silly
• 1:24:33
  creature can make a big impact in this world.
• 1:24:37
  I love that it connected with Wembley and Gobo in that Wembley
• 1:24:41
  has to work himself up to tell Gobo this really hard.
• 1:24:44
  Truth of this person who your idolizing is not worth
• 1:24:48
  idolizing. And then when Gobo goes through
• 1:24:51
  his journey and realizes that, he tells Wembley, I don't know
• 1:24:55
  if I believe in Heroes anymore, but if there is such a thing
• 1:24:57
  that you are mine. Yes, isn't that wonderful?
• 1:25:00
  You know, the relationship of Wembley and Gobo the writers
• 1:25:04
  really dug into the time. It makes it was really important
• 1:25:07
  to us, to me. Personally, was just like, let's
• 1:25:09
  just like, make these tight friendships, right?
• 1:25:12
  Like, yes, physical and they hug and they love each other.
• 1:25:16
  And in that particular episode, just even the dialogue, you'll
• 1:25:19
  hear the way that like Wembley talks to go boat.
• 1:25:22
  So, loving and it and he, he just like, it's not that he
• 1:25:26
  worships him or idolizes him, but he just adores him and
• 1:25:31
  believes in him. So, it is very disappointing
• 1:25:33
  when he sees his friend being taken advantage of, and Being
• 1:25:36
  bullied and hey you know what? I think we've all been there in
• 1:25:42
  our childhoods where we wanted to follow a cool kid or kid was
• 1:25:46
  a little bit rougher and for a while that feels good until it
• 1:25:51
  doesn't feel good until it doesn't feel good at all and
• 1:25:54
  have to find our way back to our real friends and the ones that
• 1:25:57
  make us feel good about ourselves.
• 1:25:59
  Those are the heroes just like went leases.
• 1:26:02
  And I love that I see, Joe is able to make that transition.
• 1:26:06
  Is kind for the first time in says, personal growth is so
• 1:26:09
  exhausting. I love that, you know, all these
• 1:26:12
  lines and screaming sister. Yeah, it is exhausting.
• 1:26:15
  And she, she moves a little bit as a character to in the season.
• 1:26:20
  You know, she's she's back in that she's back in the Rock,
• 1:26:24
  she's trying to get into the flow of it.
• 1:26:26
  She's having a good time, you know, will come to them that,
• 1:26:28
  you know, a later episode where she's even dancing.
• 1:26:31
  So, you know, she's trying and I we felt that was really
• 1:26:34
  important to Michael. We, you know, like that, she
• 1:26:38
  recognizes that she has repair that she has to do in Fraggle
• 1:26:43
  Rock, not just with doll, but in Fraggle Rock and general as well
• 1:26:47
  as with herself. And so personal growth is hard
• 1:26:50
  but she's trying and that's enough.
• 1:26:59
  Fraggle. Talk The Unofficial Fraggle Rock
• 1:27:01
  podcast is brought to you by tough pigs.com produced written
• 1:27:04
  and hosted by Johannes fraggle fast facts, segment presented by
• 1:27:08
  special guest, John tartaglia dig deeper segment hosted by
• 1:27:11
  Beth cook with special. Guest Hayley Stanford fraggle,
• 1:27:14
  talk art by Dave whole team Junior, the Fraggle Rock, Mark
• 1:27:17
  the logo characters and elements are trademarks of Jim Henson
• 1:27:19
  company All Rights Reserved Fraggle Rock theme song written
• 1:27:22
  by Philip boltzmann. Dennis Lee is used with
• 1:27:24
  permission special, thanks to the gym and some company Apple
• 1:27:27
  TV Plus in the entire Fraggle Rock back.
• 1:27:29
  To the Rock Family for more from topics, please find us at tough
• 1:27:32
  pigs on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and patreon.
• 1:27:35
  Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time down at
• 1:27:37
  fraggle talk.