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SMNTY Classics: The Birds of Prey · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Stefan.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never told you a prediction if I high rate you.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: And for today's classic, we're going back a bit.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: We're going back to like right when the pandemic was starting,
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: and I wanted to talk about this this is our
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Birds of Prey episode because I was looking for it's
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Disability Pride month, and as with a lot of these
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: intersections and marginalized communities, I was having a hard time
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: thinking of characters with disability that are women in media
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: that I knew, Like, I found examples, but I usually
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: like to at least have some knowledge, even if it's
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: not like something I watched all the way through or
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: something like, at least I kind of know what I'm
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: talking about. And one of the ones I kept thinking
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: of was Barbara Gordon aka Oracle, who's in the Birds
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: of Prey. So and I knew we'd already talked about her,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: so I can't I don't want to do that again.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: And we did.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: We talked about some of the problematic aspects of her
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: portrayal as someone with the disability in this episode, so
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I thought I would just bring it back. And also
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Margot Robbie's everywhere right now, so I might as well just.
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: We're gonna talk about barbies. I guess.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I would love to, honestly, but I'm gonna We'll wait.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: We'll wait on that one.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: But in the meantime, please enjoy this classic episode.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: And Samantha and welcome to steph Mo'll never told you
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: a protection of iHeartRadio's House Stuff Works. This episode was
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: inspired by the upcoming movie Birds of Prey and the
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Fantabulous Emancipation of War and Harley Quinn, which is I
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: believe a pun not a pun.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: It's a reference to Birdman and that.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Other long title of the for inteses, how is it?
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: I think so Birds of Trey, Birdman.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I mean that makes sense, right, And we haven't seen
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: the movie.
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: It could be terrible. For all we know.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: It's not a sponsored episode, but we thought it'd be
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: cool to look into the comics of some of these characters.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: And plus, it's been on my mind ever since we
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: did First Wives Club and we were singing you Don't
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Own Me all the time. As I said in that episode,
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I thought that was from Suicide Squad.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: Foolishly, foolishly, very foolish.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: It also does seem to have a lot of elements
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: that we discussed in our whole Women in Revenge right
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: episode right.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: Also, the previews have come out a second long one.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty intense. It's fantastic.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Samantha and I saw it this weekend, saw trailer
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: for it this weekend and there were a lot of fines,
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: so we were like, yep, Revenge, Revenge. Do you have
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: any experience with DC?
• 2:57
  Speaker 5: So I watched a few way back in the day
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: aka Michael Keaton and all the Batman series on that level,
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: and a couple of episodes of the old TV show.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: I do remember watching that with my great grandmother's house
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: or some weird thing. And I do enjoy the CW
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: series Flash and watch a bit of The Arrow. I
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: think it's fun and kitchen and easy going, Like there's
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: a little bit of sadness in it, and that's fine,
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: but it's like just enough that I can keep.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Going and not really worry about it. It's just kind
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: of cute show.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: Okay. I've been meeting to check it out.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I have friends who are really big fans of both
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: of those shows, but I have never seen them. I
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: have seen a handful of the New movies, and when
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I was growing up, I did watch the Batman cartoon
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: and Young Batman.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Well on the WV it was then the w OK.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah I've gotten them to confused, really almost.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, it was WV upn right, something else.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: Very young channel.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: It was my favorite. And speaking of small Ville, I
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: watched Smallville. Harley Quinn, the character, I mean, as long
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: as I can remember, always put me on edge. She
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: was just so unpredictable, right, and she's actually not really
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: a member of the Birds of Prey, which halfway explains
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I guess that long title. The Birds of Prey and
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Harley Quinn, she is usually their antagonist in fact, And
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: as I've said, I have seen the Christopher Nolan Batman
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: movies and I used to cosplay catwe from those movies
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: with two my friends going as Poison Ivy and Harley Winn. Yeah. Now,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen all of Suicide Squad. I've seen bits
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: and pieces of it, I hear. My general impression is
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: it wasn't very good, but that the best part of
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: it was Margot Robbie's.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Harley Quinn and the amount of people.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Dressed as her at Comic Con that year certainly suggested
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: that was true. Her costume wasn't it anyway, which we're
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: going to talk about that more in a minute. She
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: is a fascinating, if not extreme problematic at times character.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Other than Margo Robbie, it stars Mary Elizabeth Winsaid, it's Huntress,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Rosie Perez's detective Renee Montoya Journey Smollett Bell as Black Canary,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: and Jay Bosco as Cassandra Caine Slash maybe Batgirl.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know, haven't seen it again.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Wan McGregor plays the main antagonist, Black Mask.
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: Right, And for this new movie, Margot Robbie was pretty involved.
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: He was pitching an R rated girl gang film and
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: the first R rated movie in the DCX in a universe,
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: so that's a big note. The script was written by
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: Christina Hodson and directed by Kathy Yann, the first Asian
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: woman to direct a superhero movie. Woot woo, and it's
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: the first girl gang superhero movie.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Juwan McGregor called it a feminist film that takes a
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: quote real look at misogyny. Misogynists and movies are oft
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: in extreme. They rape, they beat women, and is legitimate
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: to represent people like that because they exist and they
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: are obviously the worst. But in Birds of Prey dialogue
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: there is always a hint of everyday misogyny of those
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: things you say as a man you do not even
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: realize man's plaining, and it's in the script in a
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: very subtle way. I found that brilliant. So in response
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: to that, the Internet's already kind of freaking out, freaking out. Yeah,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Samantha and I ran into preemptive Oh.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: That was hilarious. Yeah, definitely.
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: One guy just automatically put it out there that there's
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: gonna be no interest in this movie because we only
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: care and I say we as in the audience, only
• 6:28
  Speaker 5: care about superhero movies and comics due to the sexiness
• 6:32
  Speaker 5: of the women essentially, and these women were not sexy,
• 6:35
  Speaker 5: which in what world is Margo, Robbie and Journey Smollett Like,
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: how are they not sexy? Like any of these women
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: are beyond it was sexy. Maybe they're not naked enough.
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: I don't know. Even their costumes though seemingly are pretty
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: skin tight.
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: So again, huh huh, yeah.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Is right.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: A lot of people, angry, angry men, Internet men are
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: freaking out about already saying we don't want social commentary
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: in our movies. We don't want feminism in our superhero movies.
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: Right, We only care when the Joker has social commentary
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: about how women are awful and that white men are
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: being ignored all of a sudden, Yes, oh.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Good, yes, that's a social commentary they could give y right.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Right, and when oscars for I know.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: I know, so I guess in some ways this.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: Is doubly I'm sorry nominated for.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, we don't know as of recording this. Okay, so
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: people are freaking out about it, and you know what's
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: gonna be hilarious slash sad if it really isn't feminist
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: at all, if there isn't like so.
• 7:38
  Speaker 5: Once again, once again, that's kind of how I felt
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: about Mad Max the remake, because yes, Charlie Sarn was
• 7:45
  Speaker 5: a very strong character at all, but I'm like, in
• 7:47
  Speaker 5: the end, she still had to have the main dude,
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: mad Max, help her. So it's kind of like it's
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: not like an all ending we just got rid of
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: all the men altogether, so it's kind of like the
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: way confused.
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: Why are you so upset?
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: That's generally my question, but maybe one day we'll have.
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: The Yeah, why are you so mad about this? Calm down, guys,
• 8:11
  Speaker 5: it's gonna be okay.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: So let's get in to to the Birds of Prey
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: and kind of what they're all about. They are a
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: team of mostly female, mostly female crime fighters and superheroes.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: An occasional man shows up and Jordans their ranks. The
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: team isn't always the same. People come and go. There's
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Black Canary, Batgirl, Oracle Huntress, Katanap was an Ivy Lady, Blackhawk,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: and Catwoman to name a few. There's a lot. As
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: the name suggests, the team is composed of women who
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: are excellent hunters and good at trapping and catching prey.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: While they did face off against plenty of super villains,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: they typically tackled more real world crime like terrorism, human trafficking,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and human rights abuses. I was reading some of these
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: for this they get dark dark. It is one of
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: the few mainstream comic books as a focus on female friendships.
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: Right as far as comics go, Birds of Prey is
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: fairly recent, debuting in nineteen ninety six Birds of Prey,
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: Black Canary, Slash, Oracle, though they didn't get their own
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: book till nineteen ninety nine. The storyline was the brainchild
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: of Jordan B. Gorfinkel, and originally featured a partnership between
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: Dinah Lance slash Black Canary and Barbara Gordon slash Oracle
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: Slash formerly Batgirl.
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: And there the two mainstays.
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: Gordon had been shot by the Joker and was paralyzed
• 9:31
  Speaker 5: from the waist down, so she pivoted it to using
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: technology to fight crime with the help of Black Canary,
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: and while supportive of each other, the pair frequently clashed
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: idealistic Black Canary and realistic Oracle. However, the friendship remained
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: at the heart of the series throughout, no matter who
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: else joined their ranks.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: It was originally written by Chuck Dixon, but beginning at
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: issue number fifty six, Gail Simone took over and she
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: continued to control it until issue one oh eight, which
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: was published in two thousand. In twenty eleven, the New
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: fifty two rebooted the series. This was kind of like
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: a big reboot of a bunch of their properties. It
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: rebooted the series, and from twenty sixteen to twenty eighteen,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Shauna and Julie Benson took over the run of Batgirl
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and the Birds of Prey freechering primarily Batgirl, Slash Barbara Gordon,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Black Canary, and Huntress. They didn't start calling themselves birds
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: of Prey until six years after the story's conception, when
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Lady black Hawk said in issue number eighty six, we
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: need a name. The Asian sing it's got no zing,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: So what about being the Birds of Prey Canarian black Hawk.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: That's easy and the name Hunters fits. Yeah, there you go,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: There you go. When interviewed about Batgirl and the Birds
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: of Prey, SHAWNA. Benson said, we like women who are
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: sexy without being sexualized, because that's most women, and Julie
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Benson said, yeah, and I think the other thing we
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: really didn't want to do was have a bunch of
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: catty girl fights.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: That was the one note.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: And our editors agree, the one thing we don't want
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: to do is have a bunch of bitchy fights. They're
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: going to have disagreements, They're going to respect each other,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: though they just might go about things in a different way.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: And there was a two thousand and two I think
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: it was.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: The WB at that time, but maybe not TV show
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: pulling from the comics called Birds of Prey. I watched it,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: but it was canceled after thirteen episodes. The thing I
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: remember most clearly about it is one episode had that
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: tattoo song in it that everyone was really into at
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: the time. It followed at Black Canary and she was
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: the daughter of the original Black Canary. In this Huntress
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: and Oracle, Harley Quinn was being set up to be
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: the antagonist of the series, but it was canceled before
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: anything was ever made of that storyline, and Laurie Laughlin
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: was in it.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, forgot about that. Old days for her.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Huh old days for her?
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Right rough. But speaking of Harley Quinn, we did want
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: to talk about her character a bit more, but first
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: we're gonna pause for a quick break for a word
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: from our.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Sponsor, and we're back.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Sponsor.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Harlene Quinsle aka Harley Quinn voiced by Arlene Sorkin in Batman,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: the animated series, and that was the character's first appearance
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two, so she's fairly new within two years,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: though the fan response was such that the creators were
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: asked to make a single issue comic centering on her.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: She was such a popular character she was added to
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: the comics, She appeared in video games. She appeared in
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: other TV shows and now in the movies. To this day,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: she is a best selling character, so much so that
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: DC Entertainment called February twenty fifteen Harley Quinn Month. She
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: was introduced primarily as a sidekick through the Joker and
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: in full clown attire. She's unpredictable and sexual, especially in
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: her post gester outfit was kind of a corset thing.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: She loves performance in the line between the real Harley
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: and the performance is a blurry one.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: In some versions she's Jewish and in some versions she's queer.
• 13:12
  Speaker 5: Right. When it comes to the creation of Harlequin, Paul
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: Denny typically gets the credit, but many point to the
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: woman who first voiced her, Arlene Sorkin. She previously starred
• 13:22
  Speaker 5: on Days of Our Lives, where she served as the
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: comic relief.
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: I guess that's interesting.
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: In that soap opera, yea, she always was pitching ideas
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: and one day she pushed a dreamlike, fairy tale esque sequence.
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: The producer sprang for it. She played a juster in Rollerblades.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: Uh huh, okay, yeah, I like that.
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: Denny and her were friends, and she gave him a
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: VHS of her favorite performance her in the gesture outfit,
• 13:43
  Speaker 5: telling jokes too Royalty.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: While on roller skates.
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: It remained unwatched for years until one day under the weather, Denny,
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: who was struggling with coming up a female villain for Batman,
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: watched the tape and there you go, Proley Quinn.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah you should.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: You can still find clips of it online and you
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: can see it.
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: You're like, okay, I can already imagine it, and I
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: feel like my imagination is better.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know that it is. Oh no, well, it's
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: just so interesting. I don't watch soap operas. I don't
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: have a lot of familiarity with soas, but it is funny, like, here's.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: A jester on rollerblades telling jokes to Royalty.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: What days of our lives?
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Yep, maybe a future episode.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: In this current version of Harley Quinn, she started out
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: as a psychiatrist at Arkham Asylum, which is where all
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: the really bad guys go in Gotham City. She graduated
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: at the top of her class, and in some interpretations,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: she resented the uptight persona that that she created or
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: that she shaped, that she felt like she had to
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: behave in a certain way, that there are all these
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: expectations placed on her, and that all changed when she
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: met the Joker, and that's been one of the defining
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: traits of her character. She has long been defined by
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: the Joker, her often abusive, definitely toxic relationship with him.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Several episodes showcase the cycle of abuse. I even found
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: an entire article like pointing to this is this stage.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: This is the stage from one episode of What the
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Newer Batman. And she's pretty obsessed with him, and he
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: uses and abuses her, does not love her. Her shirt
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: and Suicide Squad read Daddy's Little Monster as if she
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: was his possession. Robbie has been very open about how
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: she wasn't a fan of Harley Quinn's outfit and Suicide Squad,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: particularly the as she called them, gratuitous hot pants, and
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: her vision in this movie. Harley Quinn's vision of her
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: deepest desire was that a normal her with a normal Joker,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: had normal kids and a normal house, and a lot
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: of fans saw that as a major disservice to her character.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: It's fair to say she is largely essentially the female
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: version of the Joker, right down to the broken psyche.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Some speculate that Harley Quinn was Harley quinsle trying to
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: find her identity after defining herself by what she thought
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: society expected of her for so long, only to fall
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: in the trap of defining herself through an unstable man.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Whatever the case, Harley Quinn is someone looking out for
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: her own self interest, which frequently means partnering with villains
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: and heroes. In more recent iteration, she has moved away
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: from the Joker and worked with more women like Poison Ivy,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: whom some have interpreted to be in a sexual relationship
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: that they're in a sexual relationship together, and even Batgirl
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen's Heroes in Crisis comic series. And that's
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: actually something a lot of really big Harley Quinn fans
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: point out is that she does have capacity for loyalty
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: and compassion where the Joker does not. That's one thing
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: that separates her from him. And yes, while she has
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: never been a member of the Birds of Prey, she
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: has made appearances in their stories, notably in the Manslaughter,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: which was an arc from the Batgirl and the Birds
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: of Prey run by Shawna and Julia Benson. In Manslaughter,
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: several of the men of the DC universe are inflicted
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: with a mysterious, deadly virus. In order to find a cure,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: the Birds of Prey worked with some villainous anti heroin
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I guess, characters like Poison Ivy, Catwoman, and Harley Quinn.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: The virus was the product of a cult seeking to
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: quote endo, the tyranny of men. Men only understand one
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: language violence With the men of Gotham incapacitated, women are
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: free to walk the streets without fear judgment, sexual harassment, robbery,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: or other violence against them. Imagine if it was like
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: this every day, and then I wanted to read this.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I like this little panel I found from this comic.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: So it's a detective talking to you. I believe Batgirl
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: and Blacknary. Thanks for taking the less conspicuous entrant. Shouldn't
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: be a problem getting you to the interrogation to talk
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: to the suspect. How are you holding up, Batgirl asked, well,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: nearly seventy five percent of my force is out sick.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: But on the bright side, crime is down ninety percent. Newsflash,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: women are awesome, Yeah, not wrong.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: Wrong.
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: So one of the characters go on to say, Miss Andrew,
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: ain't feminism equality for all?
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and saving men certainly isn't a bad thing, but
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of the plots for women in this universe
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: do revolve around the men in their lives, like the Joker.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Perhaps.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: One infamous example comes from an episode of Batman the
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Brave in the Bold titled The Mask of Matches Malone,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: when the Birds of Prey, then composed of Catwoman, Black
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Canary and Huntress, had to sing a song. Of course
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: at this bar for villains, so they sang Birds of Prey,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: but it was much more more about the superhero men
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: in their lives than it was about themselves, and they
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: sang it specifically to reach out to Batman, who was
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: suffering from amnesia. Because also, of course, the song had
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: so much innuendo in it. It aired first in Australia,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: but then word got out about it had to be
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: edited before it aired in the United States.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: Do you know this song?
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't want you to sing a little bit.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Of it maybe after the bikes are okay.
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: The Birds of Prey had formed many coalitions with bad
• 19:30
  Speaker 5: girls and anti heroes, and this is a fairly common
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: theme throughout the DCEU, especially among the female villains. They
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: go from antagonists to protagonists, back to antagonists. For instance,
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: Poison Ivy joined at one point, but turns out she
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: was just using them to take out targets she didn't like.
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: This could relate back to that quote we read in
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: Batman Returns episode from the creator of Catwomen about how
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: women can't be trusted quote unquote, cool, detached, and unreliable.
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: There's a love resentment thing with women. Once the romance
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: is over, somehow they never remain my friends. Several of the
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: times Harlequinn saved the day, it was to spite the joker. Yeah.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of times he'd be like, goodbye, I
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: got them, I'm gonna blow it up, and he doesn't
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: care that Harley Quinn is there, so I know. In
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: one example, she like throws something up into his helicopters
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: he's getting away, so that he can't get away either.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: At the tail end of November twenty nineteen, streaming service
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: DC Universe debut Harley Quinn an R rated comedy. Kaylee
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Quoquo provides the voice of Harley and Alentudick as a
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: joker as a Valentoin Dick. Also, Mark Hamill has a
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: long history of playing the Joker and he was my
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: first crush, so that makes me happy in this show,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: after realizing her relationship with the Joker is an abusive one,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: with the help of her friend Poison Ivy, she leaves
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: with the help of her friend Poison Ivy, who by
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: all accounts, seems to be the best part of this show. However,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Harley still remains obsessed with the Joker and only seeks
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: out male accomplices to be in her sort of tea.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Ivy even talks in a show about a glass ceiling
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: for female villains, even even female villains, if you're curious.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Harlequinn the word can mean several things, but here most
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: significantly clown or buffoon, a stock comic character originating in
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: the Comedia de l'arte, the foppish lover of a combine.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: In the English harlequinod, he is usually represented in a
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: diamond pattern multicolored tights, wearing a black mask, or another
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: definition malevolent spirit.
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: That makes sense m h.
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: According to Hollywood Rumor, a movie called Gotham City Sirens
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: is in the works, and that would feature Margo Robbie's
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: Harlequin working with Selina Kyle, Catwoman and Pamela Ailey.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: In past Poison Ivy.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but okay, she's not in the Birds of Ray.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: So again, let's talk about actual members of this group,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: starting with Dinah Laurel Lance aka Black Canary. Along with
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Barbara Gordon Slash Oracle Slash, formerly Back Girl, she makes
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: up the heart of the team, a founding member who
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: is one of the mainstays. She also was a founding
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: member of the Justice League. The character actually debuted way
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: earlier in nineteen forty seven, although this was the mother
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: of the current Black Canary as a secondary super sexualized
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: villain slash love interest. That's how she made her original debut,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: but she was immediately well received. Both an idealist and
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: toughest nails, Black Canary is great at hand to hand combat,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: an excellent leader, and she has an ability called Canary Cry,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: which can shatter glass and recurr jrums incapacitate pretty much anybody.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And I did think that was kind of funny, given
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: the whole shrill thing women get labeled with all the time,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: But look, she turned it into a weapon. She weaponized
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: the tools of her oppression. Right.
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: While she is one of the rare female characters created
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: without a male analog, in the DC universe, she is
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: not too infrequently played as supporting character to her boyfriend,
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: the Green Arrow.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Right. Gail Simone, the writer we mentioned earlier that did
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: a bulk of these Bird of Prey she had a
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: big candidate, has publicly stated that in her characterization, Black
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Canary was bisexual. This character recently featured in the CW's Arrow,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: played by Katie Cassidy right.
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: Also in the CW version is Sarah Lawrence played by
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: Katie Lots, which is not featured in the comics. She
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: is the predecessor for the Black Canary as just the Canary,
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: and it is one of the first bisexual characters in
• 23:37
  Speaker 5: the most reccent TV versions.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Oh huh.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Best Selling author Meg Cavott recently took a stab at
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: the character, writing a new origin story for Black Canary
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: aimed at young girls called Black Canary Ignite, which is
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: really exciting because young girls, I think aren't too often
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: unfortunately the target audience for comics, so it's cool that
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: we're moving that way. The other person at the core
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: of the Birds of Prey is Barbara Gordon Slash Oracle Slash,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: formally Backgirl, first appearing in nineteen sixty seven as a
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: female component to Batman, who at first, by the way,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: insists she gives up crime fighting because she's a woman.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: She is a genius, she has a doctorate in library science.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: She's great with technology. She can speak a ton of languages.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Business Week included her as the only woman on their
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: top ten most Intelligent fictional Superheroes list in two thousand
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: and six. Conceived during the Silver Age of comics and
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: during the Women's liberation movement, she was meant to represent smart,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: career oriented women in the Killing Joke, which was an
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: issue a comic. The Joker shoots her who she was
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Batgirl at the time in the spine, and then he
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: takes pictures of her because he's a sadist, as she
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: writes in pain. As a result, she is paralyzed from
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: the waist down is a wheelchair. She also suffers from PTSD,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: but that whole storyline is more about how Batman and
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: her father feel about the whole thing, like the reason
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: the Joker did it was to.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Drive her dad insane.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Improved to Batman that even the best men can can
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: lose their minds, and the writer later called it shallow
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: and ill conceived. This actually inspired Future DC and Barbara
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Gordon writer Gail Simone to make the Women in Refrigerators website,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: which documents the numerous cases of violence against women in comics,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: particularly sexualized violence, to showcase only done to show how
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: it impacts the men, how it hurts the men. After
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: being shot, Barbara Gordon takes on the new secret Identity Oracle.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: In more recent storylines, she is quote cured and becomes
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Batgirl again, sparking conversations around ableism and that whole overcoming
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: disability conversation Bridgete and I had in a past episode
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: which there are so many essays out there about this
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: particular character ableism, and also being a librarian, which.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: I thought was really interesting.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Even though she was the main character, she only appeared
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: on one third of the covers, and she was frequently
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: drawn in a frumpy manner until later in later runs,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: which is problematic as well. She was portrayed by Yvonne
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Craig in the nineteen sixties Batman TV show, and the
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: actress appeared as Batgirl in a nineteen seventies PSA advocating
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: for equal pay for women. All right, then that girl, Yeah,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: that's right, And then there's Huntress aka Helena Bertanelli. Like
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: most of the characters were talking about, she's had a lot,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: a lot, a lot of storylines. We should have said
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: that at the top, like they've been rebooted so many times,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: it's hard to say which particular storyline, but anyway, she
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: one of her storyline the Huntresses, and one of them
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: she was the daughter of Batman and Catwoman. But the
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: one they're going with in the new film is her
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: past in the mafia and her loss of her family
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: and a mob hit, a storyline introduced in nineteen eighty nine.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: She's a fairly violent.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Character with a particular affinity for crossbows. Because of this,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Batman generally did not approve of her methods, and she
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: devoted a lot of time to earning his approval. That
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: didn't stop her from spending some time with the Justice
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: League and after that the Birds of Prey, and while
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: she's not an original member of the Birds of Prey team,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: she did become integral and one of the most well
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: known characters for sure. Her story arcs generally involved her
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: obsession with vengeance and letting go of her family's violent
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: past to become Huntress.
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: She was reintroduced as an Italian African American woman in
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: the New fifty two and as character was a villain
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: during the first two seasons of Arrow, played by Jessica Degal.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: And then there is Cassandra Cain aka Batgirl or Orphan
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: in the comic book World. She is the daughter of
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: two assassins, Lady Shiva and David Kine, and the pair
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: raised their daughter to be an assassin too. In some
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: versions of the comic, she was raised not to speak,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: but to instead use those parts of her brain to
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: read body language and general movements.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: She went on to.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Become an assassin in service of Barbara Gordon, Slash Oracle.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Not an official member of the Birds of.
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: Prey, multiple characters have taken on the Batgirl mantle. Cassandra
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: Kine is one of the most well known behind Barbara Gordon.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Then there's a Lady Blackhawk, a pilot who was a
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: member of the World War two black Hawks and pulled
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: from the nineteen fifties into these our modern times. She
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: did not become a regular in the Birds of Prey
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: comics though until two thousand and four. You know, doing
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: the research for this, it's oftentimes I'll write something and
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: then I'll think this is too weird, right, this is
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: too weird.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: But then I was reading this like, maybe it's not
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: too weird.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of stuff going on here. Another character
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: we need to talk about is Rename Montoya. She is
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: detective in the Gotham City Police Department's Major Crimes Unit.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: She eventually left the police when she couldn't handle the
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: rampant corruption anymore.
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: Originally created for Batman the Animated Twoes in nineteen ninety two,
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: she's now one of the most prominent gay characters in
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: the comics. Her superhero Guys was the question, although she
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: didn't accept her membership offer into the Birds of Prey.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Nah, she didn't do.
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: It, she said, no thanks.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: There are so many other characters we could talk about.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Misfit who, oh misfit is she her saying is dark Vengeance,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Black Alice big barda hawkgirl.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Katana, who you were telling me has also.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: Been a girl was there as well.
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: She was introduced in the Arrow and I think Legends
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: of Tomorrow has all of these people in.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: There as well.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: I have not watched Legends of Tomorrow too much, but yeah,
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: they have a lot of different characters that kind of jumped.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's I mean, that's always fun.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: There's this whole world to pull from, right, But that's
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: that's who we're going to cover for today. We do
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: have a little bit more for you, but first we
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: have one more quick break for word from our sponsor.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: And we're back. Thank you, sponsor.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: And we just wanted to wrap up on some I
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: guess observations. Yeah, some themes, starting with I was in
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: my head comparing Birds of Prey to other superhero groups
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: like the Avengers, are Justice League, our Teen Titans, and
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I do feel that the scale of what Birds of
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Prey dealt with is less compared to teams made up
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: of mostly men like the Avengers are Justice League.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: Not that it's any less important.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: They're fighting like human trafficking, drug trafficking, all kinds of things.
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: You mean, like world impending disasters.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels at least because I have read some
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: of all of these, but I'm not. I haven't read
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: all all of them, but I did get this sort
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: of vibe that they're like, let the big boys.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Handle this whole world ending thing and you can take
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: care of these smaller.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: To me, this sounds like where the DC has Justice League,
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: and then the Birds of Prey, Marvel has the Avengers
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: and then the Defenders.
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: You're just kind of like, oh, this is a big screen.
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: This is a small screen, although obviously this is a
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: big screen now, thank you very much, manco Robbie then
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: some but yeah, that's what it looks like.
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: That a little scaled down version.
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: Of here's another set of superheroes that you may like,
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: but they're not as cool, right, We're going to pretend
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: like or not write them as cool, right.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: And I something else that does get ignored or glossed
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: over a lot is you know, the founder of the
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Avengers was the Wasp. Like the women are at the
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: heart of a lot of these big groups, but you
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: never hear that. And like Wonder Woman, for example, is
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: also a secretary. Like there's always this kind of weird
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: layer that I do think it is changing, but.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: Very very slowly.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: Yes. And another thing that's changing very slowly that I wanted.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: To comment on here costuming, because I really would recommend
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: looking at pass covers if you're interested, because it's impossible, impossible, yeah,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: not to see the male gaze and the overt sexualization
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: of these characters, who I remind you are crime fighters, right,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: superheroes their outfoot choices for combat, they leave a lot
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: to be desired. One is like just a bronze suspenders
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: underwear and that's it.
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, I mean I do enjoy being pantiless,
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: but I would feel really self conscious trying to jump
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: buildings and only my You know, we need.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: To think about what our superhero costumes.
• 33:18
  Speaker 5: I think one would be my really raggetty robe. Right now,
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: I'm just sitting on the couch.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: Oh the couch comes.
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, someone is carrying me on a couch as I'm like,
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: stop that, this is interesting, the tactic.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: Stop it.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: So you need to find a am I the your partner?
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: I carry the couch.
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: I don't know if you're carrying the couch as much
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: as you join me every now and again like, hey.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Don't do that, it's not cool.
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with her. She said.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: How effective we'd be, but we'd probably be more comfortable
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: than a lot of women in these outfits. That is
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: something that is also changing, and it's interesting to read
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: from female writers the importance of that to them, that
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: their outfit choice be practical. Right. That doesn't mean it
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: can't be sexy exactly, but practical.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: That shouldn't be the forefront, the focus right on the outfit.
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: So also, while we're thinking about it, anti heroin slash
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: bad girl trope, that's something that we see a lot
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: of in the characters we've been discussing, and certainly want
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: to come back to what we're actually going to do
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: an episode on the history of the bad girl trope
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: and the good bad girl trope, which has been a
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: conversation back and forth about who has power the.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: Good girl bad girl idea.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I never heard of the good bad girl trope until
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I had looked into this, and the examples they gave,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: like were Faith from Buffy who is still good but
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: bad meaning.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: She likes to have sex usually. Yes.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So definitely planning on coming back to that. But
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: I do think this, this DC universe has a lot
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: of examples of anti heroines or bad girls, So excited
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: to come back and talk about that. There are definitely
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: particularly when we're talking about the Joker and Harley Quinn
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: and Barbara Gordon. There's whole issues of representation when it
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: comes to ableism and the depiction of mental illness right.
• 35:16
  Speaker 5: Which I think has always been a thing with crime
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: fighting movies, fantasy crime fighting movies. They kind of take
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: that and make it into almost the antagonist in itself.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as a theme, Yeah, it's generally coded as this
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: person is a villain if they have any kind of
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: mental illness. Yes, yes, the Joker is a great example,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: a great example, and comic books do have a very
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: long history of not so great representation of women and
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: over a sexualization of female characters.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: Actually, at least one of the.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: Writers who's writing for it now or has been up
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: until recently, got the job because she wrote DC and
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: complained about their portrayal of women. And that is Recent
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: research shows that more and more women are getting their
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: own storylines and titles, and a lot of this is
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: linked to the increase in female creators of female writers
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: and artists in the industry. So that is a good thing.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: But we still have a long way to go, as
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: we can see on Twitter, as we can well Twitter.
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: Twitter makes you feel like the world's on.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: There's a long way to go for everything, I suppose,
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: but that could be true.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: That could be true.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: It's an interesting place to end our Birds of Prey episode.
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: It's kind of funny because it does keep it in
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: the forefront. Because it's a continuous debate. I know, I
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: know we're gonna make things happen.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: We can and so can you listeners, and we would
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: love to hear from you if there's any Birds of
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Prey character. We didn't mention our favorite favorite issue to comics.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: I'm always looking for recommendations. You can email us. Our
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: It's always to our super producer Andrew Howard, thank you.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening. Stefan Never Told You. The
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: Wherever you listen to your favorite shows.