Latest / Foul Territory / Trevor May: Shutting down Shohei, HEEL Acuna Jr., Jesús Luzardo’s sweeper, AL Cy Young debate or nah?

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Trevor May: Shutting down Shohei, HEEL Acuna Jr., Jesús Luzardo’s sweeper, AL Cy Young debate or nah? · Foul Territory

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, Maysplaining, Trevor May, back with us on FT. Good
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: to see you, Trevor. How you been, man?
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: I am great. How are you guys doing?
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: We're good.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: You ready for the pitching quiz? We got a number
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: of questions for you. So let's start with the big one.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it. Lay it on me. All right.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Well, Shohei Otani, he's a big deal. He's a unicorn.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: And he's kind of wearing down a little bit. Physically,
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: he's taken a toll this year on trying to do
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: the pitching and the hitting. And we haven't seen the
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: pitching much lately. it sounds like he's not going to
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: pitch again. Now, he might pop up again in a
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: few weeks because he can do whatever he wants, but
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: what's your take on what he's going through, what he said,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: and what he should do to make sure that he's
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: as good as possible at the plate for the Dodgers?
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Shut it down. Let's just end the dream now. It's
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: not going to happen. It's okay.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: He didn't pitch that much last year. He didn't pitch
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: at all the year before that. Let's just say it's
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: okay if he just hits because he's got to be
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: uh he's got to be on the field and if
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: if it means you know asking him to do too
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: much and that hurts him to do the one thing
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: that he can do well right now then what's the
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: point of doing it uh guys won four mvps at
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: some point he's going to slow down and get a
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: bunch of little uh nagging stuff going on everyone does
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: in baseball it's actually a miracle that this hasn't he's
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: gone this long without it happening this is the thing
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: This is the reason people aren't two-way players usually. So, yeah,
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: shut it down. He's not going to win the Cy
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: Young this year. I know that's what we were talking
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: about a lot. But I think that's a two-horse race
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: at this point. So, like, just get him ready for
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: the postseason. We know that's what you do anyways, Dodgers.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: And it's September now. So it's the time to shift into, oh, look,
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: everyone's healthy again. It's time to go on a run mode.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: And if that means Shohei throws– gets to magically come
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: in and throw a single inning in a playoff game
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: or something, and that's the only thing we see, then
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: I'd say that's more than we can expect. Just shut
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: him down, let him swing the bat.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: He's 32.
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: Can you remember you were 32 when you played, the
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: last year you played for the Mets? How is your
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: body feeling? Because that is the biggest thing is Dave
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: Roberts was saying, hey, you know what? He's breaking down.
• 2:15
  Speaker 5: There's different things I'm seeing overall wear and tear. Did
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: you not recover as well because of talking about that?
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: Then you like double that with what Shohei's doing if
• 2:25
  Speaker 5: he has a possibility of coming back.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was a reliever.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: And I remember distinctly thinking, oh, this is what they
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: talk about when you've gone over the crest of that
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: roller coaster and starting to look around. at the, how
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: far you're about to go down. Uh, that's when you,
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: you start to realize like, Oh, my calf hurts. And
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: that's never happened before. That sounds like it's a neck thing.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: And then it's like a shoulder thing, but not from
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: throwing from like swinging or sleeping wrong. That's when that
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: stuff starts to, to pop up. That's when you start
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: getting the Jeremy Affeld.
• 2:57
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I tore my ACL. Cause I was picking on my
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: kids type of stuff.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: And so Yes, I remember that. And I was just
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: the guy that pitched, you know, in a good year,
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: 60 innings. So I can only imagine what it's like
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: to go hit in the cage and also go do
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: your full throwing program and have any energy left over to,
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: you know, feed yourself, let alone play baseball.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: So he's amazing in a lot of ways.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: But there's going to come a day of reckoning where, like,
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: you just kind of have to be smart about shaving
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: those things down. And we all know eventually he's going
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: to just be a hitter. That's going to happen eventually. probably,
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: or he's going to do just one or the other because,
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: of course, that's what's going to happen. Everyone kind of
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: does less as they get older. So we might just
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: be seeing the beginning of that, but I don't think
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: that's a cause for concern yet. I just think we
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: have a lot of options here, and he is a
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: freak athlete. So just let him do the thing he
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: can do the best right now because at the end
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: of the day, he's trying to go three feet.
• 3:54
  Speaker 7: Trevor, that was my question for you, and I said
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: this when he signed the contract. What happens if he
• 3:58
  Speaker 7: wakes up one day and says, I don't want to
• 3:59
  Speaker 7: pitch anymore? I'm just going to be a hitter. Is
• 4:01
  Speaker 7: the contract still worth it?
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: That's a great question.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: I think we did the GM math the beginning of
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: this year trying to figure out if the $ 700 million
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: contract is worth the war he's been outputting. Up to
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: this point, he's actually been overperforming, which I didn't think
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: was possible, but it is. But if he just becomes
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: a hitter, now that has been the majority of his
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: value since he has been a Dodger as well, so
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: It's probably closer, but I don't even think that's even
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: possible to get to that type of number. This year,
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: maybe in three years when the price per war is
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: even higher, that is, you know, sans salary cap.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Stay tuned for that. But whatever that ends up being,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: it'll be a war number.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, when a guy wins MVP every single year
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: he's been on the team, though, you can't make that
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: argument yet. But, yeah, if he becomes just a hitter
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: and it becomes harder to win MVPs, I would say then, yeah,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, the aging curse comes for everybody.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: It's a long-term contract.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: At some point, he's going to be worth less than
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: year by year the amount of production he is giving
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: the team.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: It's just inevitable. It's how these things work.
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: Obviously, an arm injury is the worst thing that can
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: happen to a pitcher. What's the second part of your
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: body that's the worst? Because we remember that Shohei, the
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: original thing that cropped up before the bicep, before the neck,
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: was his knee. Is it your legs as a pitcher
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: that then causes everything else to go? Because Shohei is
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: also running the bases a lot.
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say legs are up there, but I will,
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: I will give you a, a, an alternate that I
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: think is even worse. And it was what I think
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: inevitably slowed Clayton Kershaw down was his back. I think if,
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: if you have back issues, those tend to linger and
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: they tend to come back a lot. And we, that,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: you know, pun intended, they kept coming back for Kershaw
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: and they've come back for, for, you know, other guys
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: who kind of have, I mean, we've seen some with
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: Edward Cabrera kind of, once you go on, you go
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: back on for the back again. And then it becomes
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: this like thing that crops up time to time. I
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: had my own back issues early in a career that
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: I made sure I got on top of because I
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: knew that was something that could happen. So yeah, I
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: would be more worried if it were a chronic back issue,
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: but I would say legs are probably the next, a
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: next level there, the knee specifically, because, It's just hard
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: to build that back up.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: You have to like structure. It's all these things.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: So many things are traveling through it and connected to it.
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: It could be weakness one place or the other. And
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: it's it's there's a lot of force being generated through
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: a knee when you throw, especially if it's your push
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: off foot. So that's something that I would be worried about.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: But I think guys have.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: Been been able to work through that stuff and maybe
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: not not. age as quickly or, or fall apart as quickly. Uh,
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: and that stuff that may be a back issue in
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: terms of affecting your ability to be an effective player,
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: not just be in pain, but also just like you,
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: you just don't perform as well because it's really hard
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: to repeat the things.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: You need to repeat.
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: So it's not a back issue. So, I mean, I
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: guess we could take that as some positive news.
• 7:13
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• 8:12
  Speaker 7: Trevor, I just want to clarify one thing you said.
• 8:13
  Speaker 7: He's not winning the MVP this year. PCA is, so
• 8:15
  Speaker 7: we can just go ahead and forget about that argument.
• 8:17
  Speaker 7: PCA's already got that thing on lock, so when you're
• 8:21
  Speaker 7: saying he's winning MVP every year, and it's not going
• 8:23
  Speaker 7: to be voter fatigue.
• 8:24
  Speaker 6: It's just going to be that PCA has just had
• 8:25
  Speaker 6: an unbelievable year and deserves it. So I just wanted
• 8:28
  Speaker 6: to get that out there for you.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: Hey, man, I am up there in fandom with PCA, man.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: The first time I ever met the kid, he was
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: 19 in Mets camp, and I was like, This kid
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: knows what he's doing.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: And then it came out that his parents are actors.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, okay. All right, this makes
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of sense. But, yeah, he's impressive, man. And
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: sometimes you just win it. You just win it.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: And, hey, they do this in the Academy Awards all
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: the time, too. You won a bunch recently, man. And
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: the guy's just clearly like it's– there's an argument to
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: be made. You're going to lose points for that. It's
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: just the way it works. I think that's the way
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: the world should be. No one wants to see the
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: same person. went over and over and over and over
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: and over. Things get boring really quickly that way. So
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: like an underdog, even though this guy might not be
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: the underdog at this point, especially the glove.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: We can't talk about the glove enough.
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: The guy has been incredible in center field, absolutely insane,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: metrically and just watching on TV. Both things have pointed
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: to this guy is a generational defensive center fielder that
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: we haven't seen in a while, and I'm here for it.
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: You tune in to watch PCA play. You tune in
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: to watch Otani play. Garrett Crochet has not played since April.
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: His exact quote, now I'm going to pull up the
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: exact quote. I've done crazy things before. I'm not Joe Schmo.
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: I've done impressive things. I think that would be a
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: big ask for some people, but I don't think it's
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: a crazy ask for me when he was asked about
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: pitching in the postseason last without throwing in any games.
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: Do you know where your body's at if you haven't
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: thrown in any games as a pitcher like Crochet who's
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: going to push it to the max when the brightest
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: lights are on for the Red Sox?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: That's a mixed bag.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: I've seen a lot of guys come out and be really,
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: really sharp without needing to go and throw in the
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: minors or get in a game situation. And then I've
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: seen guys that just like, you got to build it
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: back up because it's been a long time.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: And it has been a while. You're right.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: But I think at the end of the day, like
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: how he would be used would be, you know, starting
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: a game three and having like a really short leash
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: because you just can't afford someone to be rusty. And
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: then it's kind of like playing with house money at
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: that point where you think that's kind of how you
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: would be using a third guy anyways, really short leash
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: in however the series is going. So if they have
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: him there, I think what he's saying is the right thing.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: I think that his mindset is the right thing, that
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: he's not going to be like maybe– scared of this
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: of the situation or or like the lights will be
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: too big and it's been a while and oh i
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: got to get up to game speed that's not going
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: to be a problem he's going to be able to
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: get in the mindset immediately he doesn't need to build
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: that up now how rusty you are is it depends
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: on how many bullpens he's thrown and how many live
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: uh bps he's been able to throw and all that
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: kind of stuff but when it comes down to it
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: if you can at least get up to speed in
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: here uh i think he's just as good as anybody
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: in the league of being able to do that and
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: he's a gamer so your.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Minimum thing that's going to happen here Teammates love it.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Everyone's excited.
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: But I think our experience has been with guys just
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: coming back four months or three months gone or four
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: months gone, however long it's been for him, and going
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: to a playoff series, generally it's usually either just fine
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: or not great. So I wouldn't anticipate him coming and
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: throwing a complete game right out of the way.
• 12:01
  Speaker 7: Trevor, what's more important, rehab for a pitcher or rehab
• 12:04
  Speaker 7: for a position player? Because Aaron Judge is doing this,
• 12:06
  Speaker 7: coming back without a rehab. So, you know, Garrett Crochet
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: might go and throw some innings in the minor leagues
• 12:11
  Speaker 7: and then boom, right back in the big leagues in
• 12:13
  Speaker 7: the playoffs. Or Aaron Judge, who's just doing nothing as
• 12:15
  Speaker 7: far as rehab goes. And I'm back, boys.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: I would say it's harder for a pitcher just because
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: just because of how like regimented you are in the routine. Like,
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: it's just you got to be game speed. You got
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: to be able to flow with the game. You got
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: to be able to be like, oh, I'm not really
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: dialed in right here and then deal with throwing 25
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: pitches in an inning. And it's really hard to simulate
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: that because everything's so controlled. Like you're not in control
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: out there in that way. You can't limit the number
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: of pitches you're throwing and hitters have that kind of luxury.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: Their ABs are only going to be as long as
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: their ABs are like, they're not going to be forced
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: to stand there and then swing 30 times where they're
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: never be able to simulate that.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: So I think you can simulate hitting a little bit more.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: I saw the BP judge was facing live pitching of
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: guys who were like, not hurt. They're like, they're just,
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: probably not going to pitch very much, or they've been
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: called up, and they're quality pitchers. He's facing good pitching
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: in the live ABs, and he can take a lot
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: of them. I think that he probably has a little
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: bit more of an advantage there. I played with Starling Marte.
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: The guy literally refused to ever go on. He never
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: went on a rehab stand. No matter how long he
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: was down, he came and just would rake.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Right out of the gate. Some people just, it doesn't matter.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: And Judge might be one of those guys.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: He's also a generation talent.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: I think that having him on the field Even if
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: he's not sharp right away, he's going to make, like,
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: Bellinger and Rice, everyone so much better that they just
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: need the name Judge on the scorecard more than anything
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: right now, and that's a luxury as well.
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: That was going to be my question before I get
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: to Jesus Lizardo, was as a pitcher with Judge in
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: the lineup, you alluded to it there, but are you
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: fearful of him even if he hasn't had– As many ABs,
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: or he looks a little rusty, or do you look
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: at a guy like Judge and you say, okay, he's
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: played six games since he's been back on rehab. He's
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: not swinging it well, so we'll be able to go
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: right after him.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: I think it takes a special kind of pitcher to
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: have that confidence against a guy with a history like that.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: You don't want to be the guy that he clicks against,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: and you know he's going to click at some point.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: So it's one of those things like, is he washed
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: or is he not washed? That's not the question. The
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: question is, How long is this guy going to be
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: rusty for? And so you need to treat him as
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: if he is a top-notch Aaron Judge, which then opens.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Things up for the.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: Because then you can't lend as much brainpower to the
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: other guys, which were.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Getting all the brainpower before. They were getting.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: Ben Rice was getting really prepared for, and he's just
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: not quite the quality of overall hitter there in Judges
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: because there really isn't anyone else that is like that.
• 14:58
  Speaker 6: And so.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: he was getting picked apart a little bit more.
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: Still a good hitter, still having a great year, just
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: not the year he was having when Aaron Judge was
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: hitting in front of him. So it's one of those
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: things where guys, he's like a black hole. Everyone's focused
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: on him so much that other people kind of fall
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: through the cracks and get stuff to hit. And that
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: is the beauty of their lineup year after year, is
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: that they have that type of guy. There's only a
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: couple guys on the planet that are like that. They
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: can just make every pitcher focus on them so much
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: that they don't have enough Time to focus on anyone else,
• 15:29
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• 16:33
  Speaker 5: You worry about one guy and you get hurt by
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  Speaker 5: the other. All right, we talked about crochet. Go to
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: another lefty, Jesus Lizardo. What do you got for me
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: on the sweeper that is really... pun intended, sweeping through
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: Philadelphia after his complete game shutout that he threw first
• 16:52
  Speaker 5: of his career. Is it a case of him coming
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: to Philly and learning a new pitch, tweaking his pitch,
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: or him coming to Philly, getting an extension and being like,
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: now I feel comfortable to be able to be who
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: you say I am, and I'll be willing to do that?
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: I think it's actually, I think that, well, first of all,
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: the sweeper he's had since he was there was definitely...
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: uh a Cotham thing Caleb Cotham telling him hey I
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: think that you are a good candidate for throwing this
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: type of thing he'd been looking for a good breaking
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: ball uh if you'll remember he used to be just
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: with Miami and with Oakland just change up sinker hard
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: throwing lefty with a really good change up still has
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: a really good change up it used to be by
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: far his best pitch and then his slider was just
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: kind of like a cutter thing and he couldn't figure
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: it out and then they found a grip for him
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: And as soon as he went to Philly, he started
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: ripping that thing, and now he throws it 38% of
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: the time, which is, for a starter, very, very high percentage.
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: But he has a career 44% whiff rate career on
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: that pitch since he's been in the Phillies, and that's
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: three years. So that's a long time of a lot
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: of success. That pitch just is never hit hard. It's
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: hit under 80 miles an hour on average. That's pretty good.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Pretty good.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: If I had one of those pitches, I would throw
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: it all the time, too. If it's missed and then
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: never hit, and then when it is hit, it's just
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: a soft ground ball, sign me up.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: But the beauty about that.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: Distinction I think you made with, am I confident because
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: the extension helps? Sure, the extension helps, I think. But
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: we saw flashes of this last year. He just had
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: that tipping thing that was, he had these two stretches
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: that were just horrible for like four or five starts.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: And then he just got right back to being electric again.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: I think having Wheeler in that rotation again, we have
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: another situation where you forget.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Lizardo.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: We got to deal with Lizardo now because you're so
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: hyper focused on on the guy, the two big guys
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: at the top with with Sanchez and Wheeler. So like
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: he gets he's like a three where he'd be a
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: one on any other team. And that's helpful for being
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: really effective as a three. Um, but the best part
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: about this sweeper is doesn't move as much horizontally as
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: a lot of others, but it's really hard and it's not,
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: doesn't have a ton of depth. So like it's, it's
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: kind of like a really big cutter, which is kind
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: of what made Mariano Rivera so good. It's not the
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: same thing, but it does move that way. And he has,
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: he has an extremely short extension, which is also jarring
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: for hitters.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: So like, it feels like that ball is moving.
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: Moment it comes out of his hand and it just
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: keeps going but there's not actually as much movement as
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: you see so because he has such a short uh
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: uh stride he just kind of spins the ball out
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: of his hand and it kind of i liken it
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: to like spinning a bowling ball that's how his sweeper
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: works and it's really really hard to hit and he's
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: gotten really comfortable and throwing it where he needs to
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: throw it so all of his things in the past
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: walking guys not getting ahead all of his scenes to
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: be uh solved by this sweeper and his comfortability with
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: the sweeper and uh he's always been nasty he's that's
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: never been the issue it's just about throwing it where
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: you need to throw it and he's truly unlocked something
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: so this this philly's team is not a team you
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: want to match up with especially in a in a
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: three-game series.
• 20:08
  Speaker 7: Trevor, I got to ask you. We just talked about it.
• 20:11
  Speaker 7: Ronald Acuna hit his home run. He's going around the bases.
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: Zach Wheeler, pitcher, said, it didn't bother me, but our
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: guy hits 50 and just runs around the bases. Does
• 20:18
  Speaker 7: it bother a pitcher when a guy does his skin
• 20:21
  Speaker 7: around the bases? It bothered hitters when guys would strike
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: them out and they'd fist pump. Listen, I was one
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: of them. I did skits. I did the whole stuff.
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: But it would bother me. It pissed me off a
• 20:30
  Speaker 7: little bit. It would make my next at bat change
• 20:32
  Speaker 7: the dynamics of where I was. So does it bother
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: a pitcher when a guy does that stuff? Even though
• 20:37
  Speaker 7: the game obviously is different now, and I love the
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: way the game is now with their skits.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Of course pitchers get bothered by it.
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: Uh, especially you got, we all have egos and it's
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: part of pitching and hitting and playing a sport at
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: a high level.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: You have to have an ego. It's helpful.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: Uh, but of course that you can get, I don't
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: think anyone has any illusions like, uh, you know, I I'm,
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: I'm not being soft.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: They just shouldn't do that. It's really like, no, I
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: just don't like it. Uh, stop it.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: I you've hurt my feelings. It pissed me off. Um,
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: and that is, I had a couple of times. I
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: remember distinctly one, one thing happened. This is my Michael.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: This is a little bit of a Michael Jordan story.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: And I'm going to say a name because I don't
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: even know if this is true or how this happened.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: And I kind of think I made this story up
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: in my head a little bit.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Maybe embellished it. But Michael Harris, another Braves player, is
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: rookie year. Great rookie year.
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: The guy's electric. The guy's a great player. Obviously he's
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: a great player. And I faced him for the first
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: time and he hits the ball off the wall. But
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: he pimps it out of the box. And he thought
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: it was gone. And it went off the top of
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: the wall and he ended up going to first and
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: Acuna went to second.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: So they only got one base out of it.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: And He was on first, and he was kind of
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: mad and also like, ah, I'm probably going to get
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: in trouble for not running that out. And he said
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: to Pete Alonzo, and Pete told me this, so Pete
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: could have just been firing me up, but he said, hey,
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: Harris said, like, he said, how did that not go?
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: That should have been way out of here. I should
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: have took this guy way out of here is what
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: he said.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: And I'm like. who's this kid? Who, what have you done?
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: And I like went totally down that road, even though
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: I'm me, like, what have I done? Not much, but
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: I've been around longer than you have. And so I
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: felt myself be like, man. And then I just didn't
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: really like him.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: The whole, the rest of it.
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: Like I had a little.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: Extra every time I faced Michael Harris, I think I
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: faced one more time in my career, but I wanted to,
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: I like, I want, I like trickled his name on
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: the scorecard. Cause I was like, I really just want
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: to beat, beat, beat that kid because of something that
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: he may or may not have actually said.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: So that's how it works.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: That's how it works. That's how we, everyone operates. It's,
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: it's healthy, but like, if you're going to pimp your stuff,
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: be like Josh Naylor. If you're going to rock the
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: baby and say, I'm your dad and everyone gets on
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: you and then you lose a series.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: You go, that got me. I lost.
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: I did that because I was trying to get us
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: fired up and I wanted to see if it would
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: pay off.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: It didn't pay off. This is why I like doing this.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: This is awesome. I was like, That's what you should
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: be doing. That's how you should handle it.
• 23:06
  Speaker 6: Good job, Pete, by the way. Pete got you. He
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: got all up in your dome.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: He got me, yeah.
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: Pete got you all up in your dome. That was awesome.
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: Good job, Pete.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: We got to remember to ask Pete about that next
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: time he comes on the show.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: And Michael Harris. Yeah, and Michael Harris. That's true. Both
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: of them.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Neither one of them will remember it because I bet
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: you it didn't happen.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: That's why it's so good.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: That's why it's great. Pete nailed it.
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: All right, let's finish up with the Cy Young conversation.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: American League, do you think it's completely done? I mean, Trevor,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: unless something crazy happens, Dylan Cease versus Cam Schlittler is
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: going to look like a very solid one.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Schlittler, two, Cease, and then the rest.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's between these two.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: And going in, you know, when I got this question
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: and get ready for it, I was like, you know what?
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: I'm feeling pretty strongly about Schlittler at this point and
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: also He's a Yankee. We don't have to act like
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: that elephant's not in the room.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: That's helpful.
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: But it's closer than I thought it would be. Dylan
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: Cease has been absolutely dominant. Like 100 hits in 161
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: innings is incredible. He kind of wins in every other
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: dominance-related statistic, OPS against, batting average against. He has more
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: strikeouts in 10 less innings, 17 more strikeouts in 10
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: less innings. a 35% K rate, 31% whiff rate. Not
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: that Schlittler doesn't have great numbers in all those either,
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: but Cease has all-time numbers. So this is going to
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: come down to the wire. This is going to be really, really,
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: really close. I still think Schlittler would win in a vote,
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: but I do think Dylan Cease has been more dominant,
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: and I do want to point out one thing. The
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: pattern with Dylan Cease has been when his defense is
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: really good, this is what we get, and he is
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: on the second-best defense in run value. this year now
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: with the Blue Jays, and it was the opposite last year. So, like,
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: this is not surprising, but I didn't know it would
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: be this good. It's a coin flip at this point,
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: but I think if it ended right this moment with
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: the last outing that Cease had with his last start,
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: it was not so great.
• 25:16
  Speaker 7: Bad defense. That defense last night. Did you watch the game?
• 25:19
  Speaker 7: They had terrible defense last night.
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: Sorry, Kratzy.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Bad defense.
• 25:23
  Speaker 7: They had terrible defense last night, and that's what cost them. Literally,
• 25:27
  Speaker 7: they had bad defense. That cost them a bunch of runs.
• 25:29
  Speaker 7: It was terrible defense.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: It's crazy.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: I would highly recommend anyone who loves stats, go look
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: up the defense he's had every year he's had, and
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: it's wild how much it correlates.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: It is wild.
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: He's got a 5 when they're in the bottom 10,
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: and he's got a 2-5 when they're in the top 10.
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: And it's 1-1 every single year, and the pattern continues
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: even more this year.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: It's... It's insane.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: It's just the way he pitches, man. If you make
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: good plays behind him, he is going to dominate.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: It's just the way that it is.
• 26:03
  Speaker 7: The postseason run is heating up for Major League Baseball teams. Kratzy,
• 26:07
  Speaker 7: you can go see all these games, all the important games.
• 26:09
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• 26:12
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• 26:15
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• 26:17
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• 26:20
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• 26:23
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• 26:26
  Speaker 5: Essentially, your team's either in the playoffs or the team
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: they're playing has a chance in the playoffs. So all
• 26:31
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• 26:34
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• 27:03
  Speaker 5: Is that because he walks so many guys?
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, probably. That and fly balls. He gives up lots
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: of fly balls. Fly balls.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: But when you got, well, he did have, when he
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: had Varshow at the beginning, he'd just run everything down.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: Like if you, things in the gap where guys are
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: just running them down, not even needing to dive. It's like,
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: he's like, huh, I remember those bouncing against the wall.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: And like, that's, That's the difference for guys like this.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: High strikeouts, fly ball guys, not ground ball guys. You
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: need good outfield defense. It's hurting Paul Skeens a lot
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: this year, too. Pirates outfield defense is absolutely atrocious. And
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: just balls that need to be caught are not getting caught.
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: Sometimes it's just that simple.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: So you say it's a coin flip, but you're leaning
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: towards camp. What could happen in... these next few starts.
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: Obviously Cam throws, Cam Schlittler throws tonight against the Rockies.
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: Pretty much chopped that one up because he's dominated everybody.
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: What could happen? How could this change? Where could we
• 28:01
  Speaker 5: see Dylan Cease take it back, take the coin flip
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: back and it become more 50-50?
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: I think if one, I think one thing that will
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: influence voters will, because that's what this is, uh, Toronto
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: making like a run here in the last three weeks
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: and like solidifying themselves as a postseason team would go
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: a long way because he will be probably the poster
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: child for why that happens because he'll have to throw
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: really well. But I think really it's Schlittler's to lose
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: if he just keeps throwing really high quality starts and
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: having to be in his dominant ways and just doesn't
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: have an all time stinker.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: The rest of the year. I just don't think there's
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: going to be enough.
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: Because the Yankees are very, very likely going to either
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: win the division or finish really close in second. And
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: they have a great record and he's been a huge
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: reason for that. And that story is just kind of
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: hard to overcome when it's this close statistically. So I
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: think the Toronto Blue Jays themselves will have to be
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: a bigger story than the Yankees ending the season. I
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: think that's really the only way to do it because
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: I don't think he can out pitch Schlittler unless Schlittler
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: just falls apart at some point.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I just, I don't– especially a season.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: Where they lost Freed for the Yankees and, you know,
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: Cole's been slowly getting back into Cole form. They just–
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: he's taken over as an ace on a team that
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: was already supposed to have three aces, and he wasn't
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: one of them. So that's– that story in itself might
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: just be what takes it, no matter what happens.
• 29:29
  Speaker 6: All right, a couple points.
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: But the Pirates had Kevin Kiermaier work with O'Neal Cruz,
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: and he fixed everything.
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: Oh, wait, sorry. Too soon? And then second of all.
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: Brett Bateman, our next guest, actually is in the outfit
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: for the Blue Jays, and he runs everything down now also.
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: So it wasn't just Varshow. It's also Bateman out there
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: running around, raking.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: It's all of them.
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: Making unbelievable plays.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: Whoever they bring in is also really good. They've been– well,
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: Straw runs everything. These guys are just really good defensively.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: That's what they do.
• 29:59
  Speaker 7: Yeah, and then my last thing before we go, and
• 30:01
  Speaker 7: we haven't got to this yet, were you surprised that
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: Luis Robert Jr.
• 30:05
  Speaker 6: Went on the I.L. with an injury here 20 games ago?
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: I don't even know what he hurt, but no.
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: That's the best answer right there.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: If he went on the I.L., I'd.
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: Be like, sure, yep. Yeah, okay, that's it. Is he not? No,
• 30:21
  Speaker 6: he just got hurt again. He hurt his hand.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, man.
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: See you later. That was a perfect answer right there.
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: Perfect answer.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: And on that note, Trevor, you are off the hot seat.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: You're the man. Thank you.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: Trevor content all over the place, the socials, the YouTube,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: and sometimes the TV too.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Trevor, good to see you, dude.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Good to see you too.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks, guys.