Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 42: The Sunday Scaries

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Ep. 42: The Sunday Scaries · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the We Are More podcast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: We're 2 sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get Get comfy.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I should have brought my coffee. Aw. There's nothing like a late night coffee. Honestly, if I get
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a coffee in the morning, I'm unlikely to drink it. We all know this. But if I get a coffee mid afternoon, I am guzzling that thing.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I get it. You what. If I get to the office and I make a cup of coffee and I drink it in, like, an hour, I need to poop. Brie, tell the people about, your really effective laxative. What did I do?
• 1:05
  Oh, yeah. Okay. So say you need to poop and you can't. You're constipated and nothing's working. You've tried it all.
• 1:17
  I'm a tell you a little life hack. You go to Starbucks. You order a Trenta iced coffee. I get mine with milk. You do as you wish, but you need a Trenta iced coffee, and you need to drink it in an hour.
• 1:33
  And then you better believe it. Things are gonna start moving. Also, your heart, which is gonna defibrillate, Maybe. It's just an iced coffee. It's not like a shaken espresso.
• 1:42
  That'll bring you up from death's door.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: We had a whole conversation about your iced shaken espressos.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: I love those. I really the caffeine doesn't seem I I know doctors say, like, even if you don't think the caffeine affects you, it does. But I tell you, it just it's not doing anything for me. Maybe I need to try the ice shaking espresso.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: You gotta try different things. Like, I need different things at different times, and I wrote about it in a journal for my grandma. But, like, if I want to be woken up from the dead, I need an ice shake and espresso. If I want, like, if I'm I'm slowly winding down at the end of the day, and I need a pick me up, I need a refresher.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The refreshers always throw me off though, because you think this is harmless. Oh, no. It's not. It's harmful.
• 2:33
  It has a lot of caffeine because that has the green coffee in it. Yeah. So don't order those for your children.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Green coffee has more caffeine in it Right. Than a regular coffee. If you didn't know, we're Starbucks experts.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Actually, so my mom got us a, like, I don't know, fancy coffee maker
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: yes.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: For Christmas. And I'm not one to normally make coffee at home because I just I go to Starbucks. And so we've been using this. And in trying to figure out, like, what coffee blend we like, I realized that I deeply hate, like, a dark roast coffee.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because it's It tastes like cigarettes.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a bad time.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: But you also have to be careful with cheap coffee. It'll also taste like cigarettes.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: But like a blonde coffee Yeah. It's not as strong of a coffee taste, but it's a lot more caffeine. And you know what? That's what I need in my life. So
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Blondes have more fun.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: And that's why I got highlighted. Yeah. Because she just highlighted her hair. So today, if you've been listening for the last couple of weeks, we've been talking about how we were gonna do a devotional geared towards Billies. Yeah.
• 3:42
  Like, teenage boys from, I would say, like, the nineties, early 2000 era. Mhmm.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: And I found a book. We did find a book.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: We have the book today, but it came today. And, frankly, we just have to record this episode. We haven't had time to read through it yet. So we are taking a little bit of a break from regularly scheduled programming.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We, breaking news. We're taking a break from our regularly scheduled programming. You know what I'm trying to do. That was sad.
• 4:11
  I don't know.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: It was it's late. You could have gone like, but you didn't you didn't do that.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: You know, typically, I would do something like that. I know. But it's good to see you
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: do it. The folks at home are confused.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They're like, who is that?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: To be fair harp. We sound similar enough that I'm not always sure you guys can tell us apart, because heaven knows I can't.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Have I said this before? Maybe this is just one big scam. It's one person talking back and forth with themselves. Can you imagine? That sounds interesting.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: That would be incredibly difficult. A book idea.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, no. Okay. Since you're reading now, I assume you can write as well.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: It is my degree. Yes.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: You have a creative writing degree, so we're gonna collaborate on a book together. Oh, good. It's not gonna be about feminism or anything. It's gonna be a psychological thriller. Oh, no.
• 5:03
  And it's gonna be a you think it's 2 people all along doing a podcast together, but it's really just one person. Who's lost their dang on point? Probably, they murder someone.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Is that our future? Yes. We could be famous. We meld into 1 human and then go on a murdering spree?
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I also don't think we ever discussed what we're doing today. We're taking a break from our regularly scheduled programming, and we're just having a chat. You know? Just sit down with your favorite sisters, and we're just doing a little mental health check-in. We're just seeing where each other are at and also some current events.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Your voice got, like, alarming. Like, what? Oh, what's coming? Oh, no.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: That time owes me.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: I think it's a really good time, though, to do a mental health check-in, whether that's with us or with your friends.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: We're heading towards the end of January. How are everybody's New Year's resolutions failing? Frankly, I don't set New Year's resolutions because done with those.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I just I don't find them useful. If I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it whenever in the year I think about it. I'm certainly not about to wait till January.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I think the point is to, like, make a lifestyle change, and that's just not gonna happen for me. You know what? I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I think we should just start to be happy with our lifestyles.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, I think that is a good thing to bring up.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Are you happy? I don't I don't know.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I know. That was a loaded question.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: It's a hard question. I we've been talking about this lately. We have a wedding coming up this year.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: One of our cousins
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: That's not mine. It's not Breeze. Mhmm.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: That I know of. You never know.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Surprise. That could be another part of our psychological thriller. Oh, no. We marry ourselves? Sue.
• 6:47
  No.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: No. But we've got a wedding coming up this year, and I don't know about all of you, but when you shop for dresses or whatever your formal attire is Mhmm. For an event, it's all you always hear from, particularly, I would say, the women. Mhmm. Oh, I'm gonna lose weight before that.
• 7:07
  So I don't wanna I don't wanna buy the dress. I don't wanna whatever because I'm gonna lose weight before then.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: And, I've been dealing with that as I've been, like, shopping around for stuff. And it's like, oh, well, should I should I lose weight before then? Should I try and do that? Is that a thing that I need to work on? And Bree said something to me because I tried on a dress, and I was like, well, I don't really like this about it.
• 7:32
  Whatever. You said, no. We're happy with our bodies. And that was significant to me because women don't say that.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Women never say, we're happy with our bodies.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: It's always one more thing to do. If you're finally happy with your body, then you have to make sure you're toned. Or if you're finally happy with your toning, then there's something wrong with your skin, or there's something wrong with your hair, or your teeth, or your lisp, or your attitude. Your lisp? I don't know.
• 8:03
  I'm just naming things. There's always one more thing to do for women, and it's not like that for guys.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I I saw I think we shared this on our Instagram. There was a picture that said, imagine if one day women all woke up and were just decided to be happy with their bodies.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: I think I shared that.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm pretty sure you did. And it was like, you know, 1,000,000,000 of dollars worth of industries
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Would crumble to the ground.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, heck yeah.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: And when you filter things through that lens of, like, what if we were just happy with our bodies? Because most of the time, what we're looking at the argument is always, well, you should be healthy, but you should be healthy. Right. But very rarely, as a society, are we sitting there thinking, I wanna do this to be healthier.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Right. I recently wrote down that entire Barbie quote from America Ferrera Mhmm. In Grandma's Journal. And that's one of the lines is, you, as a woman, you're not allowed to want to be skinny. You have to want to be healthy.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Right. But we're not internally, no. And I'm not saying everyone. There are definitely people out there that are doing it for the health. Mhmm.
• 9:11
  But I think as a whole In general. Yeah. We're not doing it to be healthy. We're doing it to look the part. A certain way.
• 9:19
  Yeah. To look feminine, to look thin, to fit in that dress, to whatever. Mhmm. And as we are coming to the end of January, and you might be dealing with whether that's New Year's resolutions that you're still working towards
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Or whether they're ones that have kind of fallen off the wagon already. It's something that I deal with all the time. As I look at, like, other people around me, and I'm like, oh my gosh. She's so thin. I would love to be that thin.
• 9:50
  But then you have to forward think too. Like, okay. What if
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: I was that thin today? Mhmm. Would I be happy? Right. Or would it just be better to be able to look in the mirror and finally just say, I love you.
• 10:02
  Mhmm. I think I look hot.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, you know, there's there's a place for working out. There's a place for all of, you know, eating healthier and stuff like that, but you should do it because it makes you happy. That's the thing. That's the thing is, like yes. I spend 100 and
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: 100 of dollars on skin care because it brings me great joy. The packaging is adorable, and it smells so good. It brings me so much mirth.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I think we should never ever tell how much we spend on skin care, actually, because it's a dangerous place to to have discussions. It's a secret. Secrets.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And a lady never shares her secrets, and I'm a real lady.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: But I think that's part of what I've been thinking about lately, and that I think is the really timely
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Thing as we all deal with the rest of the year.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I can't believe it's still January.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I know. I know.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Speaking of online, I saw something the other day that said, can you believe it's the 72nd day of January? I was like, it does feel like that.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a big bummer. I'm waiting for for warmth is really the issue.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: It's been super cold. So Alyssa and I both have recently planned multiple trips
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: because we're cold.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: We're cold. And now I just think we're probably both upset
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that it's because we're not trips.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's somewhere else.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Take me away. Something else that Brie and I have been talking about. And, again, this is just, like, mental health check-in. So we're we might skip around to different topics and stuff.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: We typically do. We're a little bit spazzy. No. We're we're always on topic. We're always on topic, and we're very organized, and we have a lot of self control.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Yes. We're known for self control.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: And I've always said that.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: If you start singing, that's the trifecta. They all get their bingo cards. No. But we've been talking a lot about, our faith lately.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Mhmm.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: And, you know, this is Sisters Talk Faith and Feminism. So here we go.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Faith is right in there. It's in the title.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I haven't talked feminism yet, but we'll get there. I mean, we've talked a little bit. A little bit. And we are always sisters, so we got that part down. Until we're not.
• 12:26
  What? Because we morph into 1 person?
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Are we We've always been 1 person. We're not sisters. We're just 1 person.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Anyway, so back to our faith. So we've been talking a lot about some of the higher up people in religion lately. I don't wanna say the leaders of our faith, because I don't wanna identify with some of these people. But
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: General leaders who identify as Christians.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Or people of faith. People high up in the church, pastors, your televangelist guys. Right?
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The theobros. What?
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Have you not heard that term? No. Theo bros are like theological bros. You know? Like that bro culture where they think that men are all that and whatever.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Do they wear a lot of overly priced sneakers? Probably. Denim
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: tops? One would think.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh. See, I'm thinking of probably philosophy bros, and I'm picturing socks and sandals.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: No. That's not it. That's not it.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: I gotcha.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: There's so much scandal right now in the church. Scandal. Not in a good way.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, scandal. In a bad way.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: It's so prevalent that you're not even surprised when these pastors will get accused of really horrific things. Yeah. And I'm not gonna go into detail on some of the ones that are going on right now, but I'm sure you can look it up. You can find information. But it's been very hard for me the last couple of months to separate out my faith Mhmm.
• 14:04
  And who I believe that god is from these people that claim to be the leaders of god's church. Mhmm. And I'm just struggling with that because as a woman and as a person of faith, you walk into a church space, and it can be hard to feel safe. Yeah. Especially when you see the world around you and you look at these people who are supposed to be leading the greater church, not necessarily your church, but and you just don't identify with them at all.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: You mentioned something earlier about being proud of where you worked, and that's how I kind of envision this too. Like, we are in this Christian faith community, and are you proud of it? Mhmm. Or are you a little embarrassed Yeah. To say that you're part of that?
• 14:57
  Yeah. And that's kinda where I'm at right now is the God that I know is not the God that these other people seem to know.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Yeah. I I think that's exactly right. I noticed myself intentionally not wanting and I hope, like, opening up to you guys like this doesn't feel like, oh, they're terrible Christians or whatever.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: But just to be fully honest, and I think that's really important and something that we've lost in the greater church.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: But to say, I I don't even necessarily want to tell people
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: that
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I'm a Christian, that I'm someone of faith Mhmm. Because the church has a bad reputation. And it always it it never has had a great reputation. I mean No. Let's be real.
• 15:43
  All throughout history, like, the church just they get a bad rap. Mhmm. Primarily because people use God in ways that he was never meant to be used.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: It's the abuse of power. Right. You think back in bible times, you had the Pharisees who are supposed to be, like, the leaders who uphold the law, and they were terrible people. Mhmm. And Jesus said, do not follow them.
• 16:09
  They are terrible people. Mhmm. But what are we doing today? Mhmm. Are we following the Pharisees?
• 16:14
  Because it feels like it. Mhmm.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've just I I wanna go into church, and I want to feel safe. Mhmm. And I wanna feel at home. And there have been a select few moments in my life where I have walked into churches and felt that way.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: But for someone who's been in church all of my 30 Existing.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Some odd years no. Don't give that away. Shit. I've talked about this. You're 900
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: years old. 900 years. But, I mean, that's a lot of years of church. Okay? That's a lot of sermons.
• 16:47
  I've sat through a lot of sermons. And I can count on one hand the amount of times that I've walked into a church space and felt safe, felt at home, felt like I could relate to this space.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Seen and heard. And I think one sermon that we would both talk about where we felt seen and heard was 1 church where it was called Jesus and Women. Mhmm. That was the title of the sermon, and we both, like, clenched. Oh, I thought
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I thought we were both gonna pass out right there.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: So it's like, we're gonna have to get up and walk out of this place? But it ended up being so beautiful, and you felt so appreciated and something that I've never heard preached on Mhmm. Or taught by a a male pastor Right. On the stage talking to a whole crowd of people saying that women are valued.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Period. Yeah. There were no caveats in it and it we were both kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: As he's talking about the women of the bible and how amazing they were and how powerful and strong they were and how much trust god had in them. And we're all sitting there waiting for, like, but they had to listen to their husbands. Yes. Don't forget. And it just never came.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: And that was so impactful for me. But where do you find that? Where do you find that feeling of safety and of homeness? Mhmm. And I think we need to also ask the question.
• 18:22
  I think as Christians, a lot of times, there's a lot of criticism for people who are not in church.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: The unchurched, some might say.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Honestly, that's me right now. Right. I don't have a home church, and I'll be honest with you guys. I haven't been going to church regularly in quite some time.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: And I was actually talking to my grandma about it this weekend because she's like, you need to go to church. And I it wasn't like a conscious decision, like, this is the day I'm not going back to church. Right. Because I have bounced in and out. I've gone with you.
• 18:55
  I've gone with, you know, you. But I think right now for me, I am upset. Mhmm. And I'm angry and I'm hurting with where we are as a Christian people. Mhmm.
• 19:08
  And I'm right there with you. I'm struggling to separate my faith and these people.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I think we need to make space for that. I think that's a big place where we're failing as people are leaving the church in droves, frankly. Mhmm. Women are leaving the church in droves. And we have no sympathy, no empathy for the people who don't feel at home, for the people who don't feel safe within the walls of a church.
• 19:38
  Mhmm. We basically throw them to the wolves. We either say, well, you need to be back in church. You need to be back in
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: church.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Or we say, well, forget you. See you, bye.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And a lot of the arguments that I hear are, well, no place is perfect. You're never gonna find a place that's perfect. Mhmm. And I feel like that's an excuse. I feel like that's an excuse for the people in the church to be not caring.
• 20:01
  Right. And the leadership to be not leading Mhmm. Or diverse or understanding. It's just judgmental, and that's okay because no place is perfect when we should be saying, we need to be better. Right.
• 20:17
  And we're just not. Like, coming from a single woman, the church is really difficult for me to find a home, to find a place where I feel appreciated and included. Another argument is that you need community. Mhmm. But even, at least for me, when I'm in the church, I do not have community.
• 20:39
  I feel even more isolated. Right.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really common feeling in the church, particularly because we have the rise of megachurches. Yeah. I and I've been to many of megachurch. Okay? I was very involved in a megachurch.
• 20:52
  And even as someone who was the most involved you could be. Okay? I was there all the time. I volunteered. I led the small groups.
• 21:00
  I worked there. And even within that, I really didn't have a community at the end of the day.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because you leave, and people forget that you exist. Mhmm. No one reaches back out to you. And that's happened to me so many times, where you think you have these deep, meaningful bonds with people in your church.
• 21:18
  Like, you've shared really intimate parts of your lives with these people. Mhmm. And then you're gone for a couple Sundays, and they're like, okay. Who are you? Mhmm.
• 21:29
  I don't have your number. Who dis? And it feels like a trick to me. It feels like, let's get these people in. Let's make them feel loved and heard and understood.
• 21:40
  And, like, let's get to know these really intimate details of their lives because we can hold it over their heads.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Well, they call it love bombing. Yeah. When you first walk into a space and they're just all over you. Like, they text you. They Bring you coffee.
• 21:55
  Yeah. You get your first coffee free at the coffee shop or whatever.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: You know? And a hug and a kiss.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Please know. Please know. And then it it does quickly fade. And, you know, it that's not all on the people that are already at the church.
• 22:10
  You also have to try in a space, But you're absolutely right. Just because you're in church does not mean you're in community. And just because you're not in church, doesn't mean you're not in community. Yeah. Like, a huge part of my faith journey right now, my faith, I would say, community right now, is sitting here doing this.
• 22:33
  I totally agree. And I hope that for you out there, that part of your faith journey and community is listening to this.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Because we get to sit here, and we get to study parts of the Bible that I've never heard preached on.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Something that I like to do too is you can make your faith your own. Like, I will drive to in the summertime when it's warm. There's a beach that's kinda close by. And if you sit in the parking lot, you can look down at the beach.
• 23:00
  I don't have to get out of my car. But I'll stop, and I'll get myself, like, a coffee and a breakfast on a Sunday, and I'll drive over to the beach, and I will listen to a sermon or, like, a podcast or something, and I'll eat my breakfast, and I'll stare out the window at the beach. Mhmm. And I feel closer to God there than I do in most churches. Right.
• 23:21
  And what's more important? Mhmm. My relationship with god or this sense of false community? Right. I don't know.
• 23:27
  Right.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: We we've elevated church to a level that I don't think it was ever meant to be elevated to. I'm not saying that there's no place for church. Please don't hear that
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: As I'm talking. Like, I personally struggle with my faith when I'm not in church. That's a personal thing.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: But other people have really good experiences with church, like our grandma. Yes. Her church, like, she calls them her people.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Like, that's where she gets her cup built. Yep. And if that's you, if that's something that you need in your life, there is a space for that. I don't I don't wanna demonize every single church and say, like, no one should be in church or whatever. I'm in church now.
• 24:02
  I think there's a space for it. I think it does help my faith personally. But what I don't wanna do is sit here and push what works for me
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: On absolutely everyone else in the world. Because what works for me doesn't have to be what works for you. Mhmm. It doesn't have to be what works for my mom, for my friends, for whoever. Everybody can come join me at the beach,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: and we can have a community there. You you don't get
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: out of your car. We can
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: all sit separately in our cars, listen to the same doesn't that sound amazing for all the introverts out there?
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: You're not an introvert.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I know. But I'm trying to welcome the introverts. Sure.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: We can
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: have our own community, and we can wave at each other from HR cars.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: New church idea. That sounds like a COVID era church.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Like, drive in church. Do you remember that?
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: They did. In Grand Rapids, they had a drive in church, but during COVID,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: there was like
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: A lot of places did. Drive here. Mhmm.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I don't
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: know why you wouldn't just, you know, sit in your living room,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: but And have communion with a Cheez It and a Capri Sun.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I think the Catholics who believe that, like, it actually turns into Jesus' blood and body would really have issues with that.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: It was almost a little bit blasphemous. Oh, good. I think it may have been. We're never blasphemous. Sorry.
• 25:24
  What is that called? Transfiguration? Is that it? Yeah. That sounds right.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's that's a little bit where I'm at with my faith. And Mhmm. And wherever you are, it's the same thing as we were saying before about looking at yourself in the mirror and being happy with yourself.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. I
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: think the worst thing you can do to your faith is rigidly say, I need to be right here. I need to be at this place in my faith
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: right now. Yeah. Be a be a little bit more gentle. Yeah. Be gentle with yourself.
• 25:57
  Say, what can I do right now? Is it going to church 1 week a month? Is it maybe you're not in church and maybe you're listening to this wonderful podcast? Do what works for you.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Right? I remember hearing a sermon one time, and this is not a pastor that I overall liked, but this one thing stuck with me. And he was talking about one of the verses where, like, someone is shouting at god.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Shout. Shout. Let it all out.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: My children sing that all the time because
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: of her. Of me.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: But he said he was talking about this person who's just, like, crying out to god, but in, like, an angry way. Right? Like, just shouting at god. Yeah. And what I took from that because god doesn't demonize us being mad at him or questioning.
• 26:52
  I remember sitting there thinking, like, alright. I'm gonna shout as loud as I can today, so that God hears me. Did you literally? No. Oh.
• 27:01
  But, like, whatever that activity was, maybe it was just saying a prayer throughout the day. Mhmm. This is as loud as I can shout today, God. As loud as I can shout so that you hear me. And god always hears us, but sometimes we wanna feel her.
• 27:17
  You know?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it it's the emotion. Yeah. You need to let it out. Sometimes you need to scream in your pillow.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: And so maybe one day, it was just a prayer so that god would hear me. And then maybe the next day, it was a prayer and reading a couple of verses. And I was like, this is as loud as I can shout today, god. I'm doing the best I can today.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And then
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: the next day, maybe it's saying a prayer and reading a couple of verses and saying another prayer, whatever it is. But also remembering that sometimes you take a step backwards. Mhmm. Today, what I can do is say a prayer. That's all I can do.
• 27:50
  That's all I can manage because my faith is not in a solid place right now. And tomorrow, maybe I can take a step forward. Maybe I'll take a step backward. I think it's just,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: can you do something? I don't like the phrase doing the best you can. Mhmm. Because sometimes you're like, I know that this is not the best that I can. If I push a little bit harder, I can do a little bit more.
• 28:13
  But, like, can you do something? Mhmm.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: And being so kind and loving to yourself Yeah. Through that process because god is being kind and loving, and you should mirror that.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: God isn't sitting up there. Our pastor has been doing this series how god interacts with us. And he said, Jesus didn't die just for the sins that you committed before or the sins that you'll commit later. He died for your sin nature. For all the mess ups that you have in your heart, in your faith, in your soul, whatever.
• 28:48
  Even the little things that don't come outward. You're not sinning out in the world. But just like judgmental heart. But just those, like, internal, my faith isn't where it should be. Mhmm.
• 29:00
  Jesus died for that too. And so god sees us through this lens of love and care and understanding, not through this lens of, well, you didn't do what I said to do today, so forget you. Like, he's not doing that, and so you shouldn't either. Yeah. You need to look at yourself through the lens of, I am fully forgiven for everything that I do today, and everything that I will do tomorrow.
• 29:28
  And so I'm gonna live in that. I'm gonna live in that forgiveness instead of in the blame and shame that I've created.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a lot of shame. There's a lot of shame that we put on ourselves and that we put on others too, and I think it's an important to recognize.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: And then it doesn't have a healthy place. No. And it's the same in your faith as, like, in looking at your body and things like that. Mhmm. It's all shame.
• 29:57
  And once once it becomes shame and not just, well, I wanna work on myself. I wanna better myself. Once it becomes shame, it's no longer productive. That's the devil's playground. I'll tell you what.
• 30:08
  I always heard the devil's playground was the ends of string as you're trying to sew things, and let me tell you that's the truth.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: No. There's a a music man, quote, There's the devil's playground. It's gone. There's something about pool.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: That was
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. We got trouble right here in River City. With a capital t that rhymes with p and that stands for pool. Stands for pool. Do you want me to keep going?
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I don't. If you're ever wondering
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Idle hands are the devil's playground. So proud. You're welcome, everybody.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Glad we got there. Everyone else was, like, shouting it. They were either shouting it at you from their computer screens, or they were like, wow. Something's wrong with her.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Has no one seen the music man? It's old. I don't care.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: I'm old. You're not even as old as the music man. So we're gonna this is gonna be a slightly shorter episode. I feel like I say that a lot, and it never is. Mhmm.
• 31:04
  But I think tonight it really is because I wanna go read my book. We have no problem. It's really a big problem.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Alyssa has been dealing with addiction lately, and it's reading.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I used to be such a reader as a kid. Like, I just read constantly.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: It brought her great mirth
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: and joy. It did. And I really think it helped my anxiety too. But then you have kids. And let me just tell you.
• 31:27
  I don't know. You grow up and you get a job and you have children, and there's just no time in life for anything.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: There's an alternative. Not having children. Yes. K. Well, I can't go backwards.
• 31:38
  So
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: and besides, you practically raised my children too, so I don't wanna hear it out of you.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I like them. That's good. That's what I like them. Kids.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: They like you too. But I've started reading again recently, and if I finish this book before the end of the month, which I will, I will do it. I have 6 books this month, and 2 of them are, like, well over 600 pages.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: So I just don't know how you do like, I've been enjoying reading lately, but I don't know how you power through a book like that. Like, I've powered through a shorter book, but that's a big book. If I had less self control I the last you could power through the Bible, I bet, in a day. I don't think so.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: The last 3 or 4 nights, I have legitimately stayed up until because I'm trying to finish it's a series. I'm trying to finish it. And I've stayed up till, like, midnight reading, and then I wake up at about 6:30 to 7, and I start reading again because I'm trying to fit it around, like, school and work and children. And that's not a don't do that. Don't follow my advice because women need more sleep.
• 32:44
  People need more sleep. I need sleep. I love sleep.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I love sleep. I don't know if I've ever shared that with anyone. I don't think it's unclear.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I think we've talked about your napping before. Oh my gosh.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: So in the Enneagram, I'm a type 9, and their stress response is to just take a nap. And I've never identified with something more in my life. Like, if I'm just overwhelmed, forget it. Turn my brain off. I need a nap.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: I remember reading that about the nines, and I was like, oh my gosh. That's, like, wildly accurate. Now it might
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: not be accurate for everyone out there, but, like, for you in particular, I am through and through a type 9.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Mine is also very accurate, actually. I think I'm an 8. You are. Yeah.
• 33:32
  Because we're opposites. Yeah. And yet so much the same. Yeah. Before we end, we wanted to talk about one current event
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: That has been sitting on our hearts
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: a little bit, I would say. The right reverend Marion Edgar Bud. That's bishop.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Quite an Of the episcopal
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: diocese of Washington. That's the so
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: many things were just said there.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Now I don't know what that means.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: It means that she's high up in the Episcopal church. Episcopal.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: It sounds like a fun word to say. It is. You are not episcopal.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: You're not episcopalian. I wish I was. You could be. You could be.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: So Mary Anne. Mary Anne? Mary Anne. I don't know. Interesting lady, good haircut.
• 34:27
  But
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: she delivered a a A sermon. Prayer service Mhmm.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: On Tuesday, so the inauguration, at the Washington National Cathedral. And she spoke directly to our current president and many other people, and basically was like, people are scared right now.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: People are terrified. Please, please show them kindness. She said, in the name of our god, I ask you to have mercy upon the people in our country who are scared now. There are gay, lesbian, and transgender children, and democratic, republican, and independent families, some who fear for their lives. The people who pick up our crops and clean our office buildings, who labor in poultry farms and meat packing plants, who wash the dishes after we eat in restaurants, and work the night shifts in hospitals.
• 35:21
  They may not be citizens or have the proper documentation, but the vast majority of immigrants are not criminals. They pay taxes and are good neighbors. They are faithful members of our churches and mosques, synagogues, gudwaras? I'm not sure on that one actually. Gudwaras?
• 35:38
  And temples. I ask that you have mercy, mister president, on those in our communities whose children fear that their parents will be taken away and to help those who are fleeing from war zones and persecution in their own lands, find compassion and welcome here. Our God teaches us that we are to be merciful. We were all once strangers in this land. And she goes on to quote some other things from Leviticus 1933 through 34.
• 36:05
  But I feel like that's okay to say.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: That feels perfectly reasonable to me.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: But there has been a ton of backlash. Like, Trump came out and said that she's terrible at her job, and her sermon wasn't even interesting.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I find it very odd that his I don't find it odd. I don't find it odd. But I find it interesting, I suppose, that his response was, like, to go after her job. Like, she's not good at her job.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I think she's pretty good. Look at where she's at.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Right? And I think the important thing and I saw I wanna read this too. If you don't follow him on Facebook or any other social media, I think I've talked about him before, but he does comics and he calls himself the naked pastor. He used to actually be a pastor. It's no longer to my understanding, but he does comics.
• 36:57
  And so he quoted this. He said, Ben Garrett, a deacon, tweeted this last week in a response to this situation. Don't commit the sin of empathy. She hates God's people. You need to hate her in response and show her no pity.
• 37:14
  And then he has a comic of, like, a bunch of fire, and there's a man there, and then there's Jesus. And the guy says, Jesus, what are you here for? And Jesus, who's also burning up in the fire, says, the sin of empathy. Regardless of how you feel about anything, empathy is not a sin. Mhmm.
• 37:33
  If someone in your community is afraid, whether you agree with their lifestyle choices, whether you think they should be allowed to be in the country or not, whatever the situation is, human beings who God created equally to yourself are afraid, and she's pointing that out. She's saying that, and all she's asking for is empathy.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: All she's asking for is kindness, which as Christians,
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: we should be more than happy to give. Mhmm. You wanna talk about what would Jesus do? Right. Jesus would take their hands and say, absolutely.
• 38:19
  I am here for you. It doesn't matter who you are, where you come from. Mhmm. I love you, and I'm gonna be here to support you. And we, as Christians, should wanna follow that.
• 38:29
  And I think that's where, like, circling back to where we're at with our faith. Mhmm. This is why we're struggling. Mhmm. Because in general, the Christian community is not acting loving.
• 38:41
  Right.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the the loudest voices, I would say Yeah. Yeah. Are not showing kindness, showing care. And like I said, it doesn't really matter if you can do anything about it. It doesn't really matter if you agree with these people or not.
• 38:58
  These are still people. There are still people in your communities that are struggling, whether it's with this situation or something totally different. But people in your communities are having hard time. They're scared, and you may not understand their situation.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: But it does not invalidate it. Right. And I think that's where a lot of people struggle. Not and not even just in this situation. I think people across the board struggle to understand things outside of their own bubble.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying you'll ever fully understand it. Like, you know, my husband will say things like, well, I I understand what you're going through. I'm like, you you don't, though. Because as a woman, I'm having to deal with this, and you can't you can look from afar and say, like, okay. I wanna be there for you.
• 39:56
  I wanna help, whatever, but you can't experience it. And so I need you to trust me that this is what's happening to me. Mhmm.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: So
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I think as people, particularly as Christian people, we need to look at people outside of our bubble and say, what are you going through? And I'm gonna trust your experiences Mhmm. And be there with you through it. That's it. That's all we're supposed to do.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because that's what Jesus would do.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: And there's no better way to share your faith than to sit with someone through their pain and through their fear and to just empathize. Mhmm. To just experience it with them.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know a lot of people who you're gonna get to come to Jesus by saying, here's all the rules. Mhmm.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Here's a stack.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Here's a rule book. If you wanna follow them, you might be able to go to heaven. You're right. The best thing that we can do is love each other and respect each other.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: You'll hear in church a lot. Jesus gives you freedom. Jesus is the one that came and gave us freedom from our sins, things like that. But the church itself is dead set on putting you in a cage. Yep.
• 41:24
  Not Jesus. The greater church. When they put all of these rules on you that are not in the Bible, when they tell you you can't be empathetic to that person, because that person doesn't agree with this. Mhmm. And they've put all of these constraints on it.
• 41:42
  And maybe not every church, but a lot of them, a lot of them public ones that we're seeing right now, they're so dead set on making sure that you stay in this little box. Mhmm. But please remember that Jesus didn't say that. There's a sticker. I wanna get I wanna get, like, 20 of them and just start sticking them places.
• 42:03
  Oh. And it's like a picture of it's a picture of, like, the traditional white Jesus, which is not accurate at all, but it's that picture. And it's like him peeking around the corner. It says, I didn't say that. And I'm just gonna I'm gonna buy them in bulk.
• 42:19
  I'm just gonna I'm gonna put them on people's faces.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna be talking to someone. I'm just gonna put a
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: sticker on their face. But that's, yeah, that's what we're going through right now. What are you going through? You guys doing okay?
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Are you okay out there?
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: We are gonna be working a little bit more on, like I said, a couple weeks ago, like, on our social medias, things like that over the coming weeks as we figure out what life looks like in 2025.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: But next week, we will definitely be jumping back into regularly scheduled programming Indeed. And talking about, devotional for boys. What was it?
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Do you remember what it's called? It's called boys. That can't be right. It's the 1 year devotions for boys volume 2. We
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: skipped right over volume 1. We said forget that.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know what volume 1 is, but this is volume 2. And, also, did you know it's for boys ages 8 through 12, grade 3
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: to 7? Good. Then geared directly towards us
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: here. A paperback, and it's English.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: She's just she's reading the thrift book's description now. So next week, we will be starting working through that. We probably won't get through the whole thing in one week,
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: because it's a whole year's worth of devotions.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Whole year's worth. But we're just interested to see what boys are being taught as opposed to girls in this community, because girls were being taught some some frightening things, if you wanna go back and listen
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: to those episodes a couple weeks ago. Pretty much guarantee you that the first verse in this devotional for boys is not gonna be, like, submit to your wives.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Well, no. Why would they
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: do that? Skip that part of
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: the bible, Brianna. We skip that verse. Submit to each other. Forget it. Alright.
• 44:10
  So we will be talking about that next week, and we will see you then for some some raging, probably.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Oh. There usually is. We like a little bit of rage here and there and everywhere. Check out the podcast, episode 1 through what are we on? 42?
• 44:27
  42, I think. We're full of rage.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Alright. We'll see you then.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I love you. I hope you're okay. Love you. Get some therapy if you need it. Yep.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: K. Love
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: you. Bye.