Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 4-6) (5/16/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Michael Thomas And The OIG Witness Statement (Part 4-6) (5/16/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  where we left off with Michael Thomas interview with the
• 0:11
  OIG Inspectors. Question and are you aware that Epstein was
• 0:16
  assigned any cell mate when he was assigned to the Shoe. Thomas,
• 0:20
  I'm sure he was. Maybe he was. I don't really recall. Question.
• 0:25
  So you don't recall if he had a cell mate
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  or not? Thomas. I know one time he had a
• 0:30
  cell mate. I don't recall, like if he was assigned
• 0:33
  a specific cell mate or not, or for his case,
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  whatever the case. But I'm sure he had a cell
• 0:41
  mate unless he was sell or wrecked alone. Question Okay,
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  do you know if Epstein was required to have a
• 0:48
  cellmate when he was assigned to the Shoe? Thomas, no question.
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  No one provided any instruction. Was there a sign posted
• 0:58
  within the shoe saying that Epstein was required to have
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  a cell mate? Thomas, I don't know. I don't know,
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  I don't think so. Question do you ever recall there
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  being a sign posted on his door saying he was
• 1:10
  required to have a cell mate? Thomas, no question. Do
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  you ever remember a sign being posted on the officer
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  in charges desk area or a computer saying that he
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  was required to have a cell mate. Thomas, I don't
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  go to his office, the officer in charge, I don't. Question.
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  So is that different than where you would sit in
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  the shoe area Thomas, the officer in charge or the
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  lieutenant office? Question? Not the lieutenant, the OIC, Thomas, the
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  o C. Well, the o C has a desk. I
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  didn't see a sign. I don't remember or recall ever
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  seeing a sign that was specific to Epstein. No question. Okay,
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  So no one ever talked to you about the fact
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  that Epstein needed a cell mate Thomas, No, I don't
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  recall anybody specifically talking about he needs a cell mate
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  or not. Question. Okay, do you know who Nicholas Tartaglioni is? Thomas? Yes?
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  Question and who is he? Thomas? An inmate at MCC question.
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  Do you know if he was ever assigned as Epstein
• 2:16
  cellmate in July of twenty nineteen. Thomas, yeah, I remember
• 2:21
  he was a cell mate when that incident happened. He
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  was actually a cell mat of his question. So from
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  July twenty third, twenty nineteen, Thomas, Yeah, that's the twenty
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  third question, So he was his cellmate up until that date? Thomas,
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  I don't know if it was up until that date.
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  I just remember that particular day TARTAGLIONI was his cellmate
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  that day. Question all right, and are you aware of
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  any issues that took place between Epstein and TARTAGLIONI answer Thomas,
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  no question, So you don't know what transpired at all?
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  For that gets cut off by Thomas for them no question, okay.
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  And you didn't respond to any kind of incident? Did
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  you respond on July twenty third Thomas to that incident? Yes,
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  me and another officer responded at the time, and by
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  the time we got there, because I got there after
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  the other officer got there and we just took him out.
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  Question what other officer got there? Thomas? Who was it?
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  I don't remember the two officers that were on duty
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  that day, but the other officer that was there, it
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  was redacted. Question and he worked in the shoe Thomas, No,
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  he didn't. I don't remember if redacted was working in
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  the shoe or not. But I remember when we responded.
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  I remember it was me and redacted. I honestly couldn't
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  tell you who the other two officers on duty up
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  there were maybe redacted was one of the officers, But
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  I know when we responded when we go there, I
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  remember seeing redacted. Question were you working at the shoe
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  at the time, Thomas, No, I was internal that day.
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  Question all right, so I'm assuming that you weren't the
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  first to arrive, Thomas. No, I wasn't the first to arrive. No,
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  absolutely not. Question. Okay, So that's what I thought you
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  meant by being the second one there. So can you
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  just explain what you meant by that, Thomas? From what
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  I can remember, I wasn't the first to respond. I
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  wasn't the first person on site, but I did eventually
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  get there. Question. Okay, so you were one of the
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  first responders, Thomas, I was one of the responding. Yes.
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  Question and when you go there, what did you see, Thomas.
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  By the time I got there, they were actually they
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  were actually just bringing them out. Question bringing who out Thomas,
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  mister Epstein? They were bringing out mister Epstein. Question out
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  of his cell? Thomas out of his cell? Yeah? Question
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  where were they bringing him to? Thomas? We was taking
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  him to the suicide which is down to the second floor.
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  Question Okay, so they were moving him from the shoe
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  to the suicide watch area, Thomas, to the suicide watch
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  area on the second floor. Question and do you know
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  why he was removed Thomas. I guess they say he
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  tried to commit suicide or whatever. Redacted. Okay. Did you
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  hear anything about Tartaglioni attempting to harm Epstein? Thomas. I
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  can't recall what he would say. I think he said
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  he tried to beat him up or something like that.
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  I think he said he tried to beat him up.
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  I really don't remember the exact details of what he
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  was saying. Question Okay, Thomas, but I think he said
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  he was trying to beat me up or something like that. Redacted.
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  So Epstein was claiming that Thomas trying to beat him
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  up or something like that. Question was he saying that
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  he didn't try to commit suicide, but rather that tartag
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  Leoni was trying to harm him? Thomas. I remember him saying,
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  that's our tag leone was trying to beat him up.
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  I remember him saying that. Redacted. Okay, and did he
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  tell you that, Thomas? He was just saying that, Well,
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  we were talking, so yes, he did tell me that
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  when we were talking. Question was that when you responded
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  or during your psychological observation or suicide watch observation. Thomas,
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  It was just when we were in observation together. Question. Okay, Thomas,
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  When I say he was really incoherent, he was just
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  saying because actually me and redacted was there for a while.
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  It wasn't just me by myself for maybe ten fifteen minutes.
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  When we got him let's say half an hour, got
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  him there, got him to clothed, got him into the
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  suicide room, and then the lieutenant was there. Who was
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  a lieutenant there? I can't remember who was a lieutenant there?
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  And because I don't have keys and stuff for that
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  for the suicide room. Question what is redacted's first name?
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  Are you a Thomas? I really don't know. Question you
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  don't know, Thomas, I really don't know. Question that's fine.
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  Did you when you responded, did you see any kind
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  of like orange homemade rope or anything like that? Thomas, No,
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  I didn't notice. Question that was used to try to
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  he gets cut off by Thomas. I don't remember seeing
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  any of that stuff. Question No. So, but you did
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  have a conversation with Epstein about Tartag Leoni trying to
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  harm them Thomas, He said that tartag Leoni tried. I
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  remember him saying he was trying to harm him and
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  that was it. Yeah, question okay? And did you believe
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  that to be true? Thomas, I didn't question. No answer,
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  I don't. I really didn't. Question. So do you think
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  he was using it? Why do you think he said it? Question?
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  He just wanted to get out of the cell. I
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  don't know. I really don't. I really don't know. Question okay,
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  But you didn't believe it, you believe that he was
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  actually trying to harm himself rather than the other cell
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  mate try to harm him. Thomas. Inmates say things, I
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  really don't know if he was. I really don't know.
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  I really don't know. Just me at the time, I
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  was just sitting there. He wanted to talk. I'm there,
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  why not talk? Question? Absolutely, But it didn't cause you
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  concern when he was saying that another inmate was trying
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  to harm him, Thomas, Well, it was passed up and
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  everything like that, because when he came out he said
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  it was said it to the lieutenant and everything like that.
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  So everybody was known. But as far as anything any concerned, No,
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  inmates harm each other all the time. Question sure, do
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  you know if at that time Tartaglioni Thomas, It's all right,
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  I can't pronounce his name either, redacted Tartaglioni was moved
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  and no longer Epstein's cell mate. Thomas. I'm sure if
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  they said he tried to harm, I'm sure he was
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  no longer his cell mate after that, I'm sure. Question Okay,
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  do you know around how long he was on suicide
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  watch and then psychological observation outside of the Shoe Thomas? No? Question,
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  all right, So does July twenty third to approximately July
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  thirtieth sound to be about right? Thomas, I don't know.
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  Question sure, Thomas, I don't work in that area. Question No,
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  that's fine. So if Epstein came back to the Shoe
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  on July thirtieth, twenty nineteen, do you know if he
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  was assigned another cell mate? Thomas. I'm sure they wouldn't
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  put him back in the same one, So I would say, yes,
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  I don't know specifically, but he gets cut off, but
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  he added another cell mate, Thomas. Maybe he could have
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  been solo. I don't know. I really don't know. Question
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  do you recall checking being that he's such a high
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  profile inmate. You know in the shoe, do you remember
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  ever you know when you were in the shoe, you
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  remember seeing two people in his cell? Thomas, I really
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  don't recall. Question. You don't know, Thomas. I mean it
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  could have been two people. It could have been him
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  by himself. I really don't remember, mister addacted. Do you
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  know what inmate Thomas exactor counts? Question? Sure, I'll try
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  to help your recollection. Do you recall an inmate named
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  ephrin Reyus Thomas? No question. So you don't remember that name? Thomas,
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  no question? So he was Epstein's cellmate from July thirtieth
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  through August ninth, twenty nineteen. Thomas, okay, redacted. Are you
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  not familiar with that? Thomas? No, I don't know who
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  that is? Question? Okay? Were you there at all when
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  Epstein was returned from Suicide Watch Psychological Observation area back
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  to the shoe Thomas, no question. No, So you're not
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  sure if Reys was already in the cell or not. Thomas,
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  I'm not sure. Like I said, if you could look
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  at that thing morning watch. So they're all in their
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  cells tucked in at that time. So I couldn't tell
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  you who was in there gets cut off, okay. And
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  do you know anything about Reys being removed from the
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  MC on August ninth, twenty nineteen, Thomas, No, I don't question.
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  You don't know that. So on August ninth, when you
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  probably got there, and through August tenth, when you worked there,
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  that wasn't discussed at all that Reyes was removed and
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  Epstein was without a cell mat Thomas, no question. No,
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  you didn't have that discussion with you didn't work with
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  that night. Thomas. Well, I know the tenth, I know
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  who I work with. The ninth, I don't know who
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  I was up there with redacted in the shoe. Thomas, Yeah, question,
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  you're not familiar with who you were with in the
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  shoe Thomas on the ninth question, No on the tenth,
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  Thomas on the tenth, Yeah, miss noel question. So I'm sorry.
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  When I said the ninth, I meant you probably arrived
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  at the institution prior to twelve am. Thomas. Yeah, I
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  arrived to it, but I didn't go straight up there.
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  I went down to the office four. I didn't go
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  straight up to the shoe redacted. Okay, right, So that's
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  what I'm saying, you arrived there on the night of
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  August ninth, and then worked in the shoe from midnight
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  August tenth to eight pm or eight am. Excuse me,
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  mister Thomas. Oh see, okay, now I see what you're saying. Yeah,
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  I got there, let's say at eleven fifty or ten
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  minutes prior to try to be there a little early.
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  But I thought when you keep saying the ninth as
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  it shows I worked on the ninth, That's why. But
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  if I got there on the ninth at ten fifty,
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  miss Noel was up there, I can't remember who the
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  other person was because it's usually two people. It had
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  to be two people. I can't remember who the other
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  person was. Question sure, And so I'll just ask that
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  last question to make sure that we're on the same page.
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  When you arrived prior to your August tenth shift on
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  August ninth, at approximately eleven fifty pm, was Reyess discussed
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  inmate Reyes or the fact that Epstein was without a
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  cell mate, mister Thomas, no question, okay. And do you
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  know if Epstein should have been assigned to cell mate
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  mister Thomas, I don't know. Well, usually if you're committed.
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  If someone commits, they usually try to not put them
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  by themselves. Question right, So if you come back from
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  suicide Watch or Psychological Observation, you're supposed to have a
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  cell mate, mister Thomas. Uh huh. Question correct, mister Thomas.
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  But that would have been done prior to my shift.
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  That wouldn't have been done on the morning watch shift.
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  No movement happens on the morning Watch. That happens prior
• 13:36
  to my shift. Question. Absolutely, but just my point being
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  that people that come off the Psychological Observation or Suicide Watch,
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  they're required to have a cell mate, correct, mister Thomas. Yes,
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  question okay, And is there some kind of like hot
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  list that's in there? Thomas? It is. I do recall
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  you're saying hot list. There's something called the hot list.
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  I don't know where it's at or anything like that,
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  but I'm sure they do have something called the hot list.
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  Question what is the hot list, mister Thomas. The MCC
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  definition of it, I don't know. I know it's just
• 14:12
  inmates that are It could be inmates that are selli's.
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  It could be that means that they're in the cell
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  wreck alone. It could be the inmates suicide watch. It
• 14:22
  could be the inmates mental instability question. Okay, mister Thomas.
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  Hot list, it's a culmination of a bunch of different things.
• 14:32
  Redacted question. Why are people placed on the hot list?
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  Mister Thomas, I don't place people on the hot list.
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  I don't know that psychology question. Yes, So if it's
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  up there though for people to see that this is
• 14:46
  the hot list, is there like a reason? Is it
• 14:48
  something like these people all need cellmates, these people need
• 14:52
  special attention these people Thomas, I really don't know. I
• 14:56
  couldn't tell you that it's just like a hot list.
• 14:59
  I know it's a hot list, the psychology put. I
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  don't know if it's particularly that all these people need
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  cell mates or the hot list or I know that
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  there's something called the hot list at MCC. I don't
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  know where they or where you get on the hot
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  list question so not what it takes to get on it,
• 15:18
  but why it's posted there, Like, if you're on the
• 15:20
  hot list, what does that mean? Thomas? Like I said,
• 15:23
  it could have been he gets cut off. So if
• 15:26
  there is a description next to a name, does it
• 15:28
  say you're on the hot list because of this reason?
• 15:31
  Thomas I really can't remember. Question Okay, but there's a
• 15:36
  hot list within the shoe Thomas, Yeah, there is a
• 15:39
  hot list. All right, folks, We're gonna wrap up right here,
• 15:42
  and in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where
• 15:44
  we left off. All of the information that goes with
• 15:47
  this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 15:52
  and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
• 15:56
  this episode, we're gonna dive right back in and pick
• 15:59
  up where we left off off with the Michael Thomas
• 16:01
  interview with the OIG Inspectors. Question, so you recall a
• 16:09
  hot list? You don't remember seeing it? Thomas. I don't
• 16:12
  remember seeing it, no question. Okay, So you never like,
• 16:15
  reviewed it or anything? Thomas, I don't remember reviewing it. No,
• 16:19
  I don't question. Were you supposed to if you were
• 16:23
  assigned to the shoe, were you supposed to say, Oh,
• 16:26
  these people are on the hot list, I need to
• 16:29
  take special care of these people. Thomas. I don't think so,
• 16:33
  no question. No, Thomas, I don't think so. I don't
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  think it was anything special care about these people or not?
• 16:40
  Absolutely not. Question. So what would be the purpose of
• 16:44
  posting a hot list? Then? Who would it be for Thomas?
• 16:48
  It's for the staff in the shoe. Question, right, Thomas,
• 16:51
  it's for the staff in the shoe. Question. So if
• 16:55
  your staff in the shoe, doesn't that mean that you're
• 16:57
  supposed to look at it? Thomas, supposed to for the staff. Yeah,
• 17:02
  you're supposed to look at it? Question? All right, but
• 17:06
  you didn't, Thomas, I would say no, I didn't look
• 17:09
  at it that night. No question, fair enough? So do
• 17:12
  you know if Epstein was on the hot list? Thomas?
• 17:14
  I don't know if he was on the hot list? Question?
• 17:18
  But do you know he was on suicide watch and
• 17:20
  that he should have had a cell mate? Thomas? Yes,
• 17:24
  I knew that he was a suicide person. Yes. Question Okay. Now,
• 17:29
  could shoe staff have assigned Epstein a new cell mate? Thomas?
• 17:32
  Could shoe staff do it? I don't know if shoe
• 17:35
  staff could do it. I know the shoe lieutenant or
• 17:38
  something like that could do it, But I don't know
• 17:40
  if shoe staff could just give him I don't know. Question.
• 17:44
  So who would be responsible for assigning Epstein a new
• 17:47
  cell mate? So let me restate that if it wasn't
• 17:51
  clear Reyes was his cell mate, he was required to
• 17:54
  have a cell mate because he was on suicide Watch. Thomas, yeah. Question,
• 17:59
  and psycho ology made sure or was supposed to make
• 18:02
  sure that everyone knew that he was supposed to have
• 18:05
  a cell mate. Thomas, okay. Question, So, if Reus leaves
• 18:10
  as his cellmate on August ninth, twenty nineteen, who would
• 18:13
  be responsible for placing a new cell mate with Epstein? Thomas? Honestly,
• 18:18
  I don't know. I'm sure it has to come from
• 18:21
  somebody up high, obviously a lieutenant, or it could have
• 18:24
  sometimes high profile, could come from administration. Question okay, answer,
• 18:32
  whatever the case may be. So specifically, I really don't know,
• 18:35
  but I know it's somebody higher up. Has to give
• 18:38
  them higher up than me. Question okay, answer. I don't
• 18:42
  think an officer would just put somebody in there with them.
• 18:45
  Question Okay, Now, is that discussed at all, like during
• 18:49
  any of those trainings or the suicide prevention training. Is
• 18:53
  it discussed like, hey, if you know this guy is
• 18:55
  on suicide Watch, make sure he's got a cell mate? Thomas,
• 18:59
  I don't think so. Oh, I don't think it's discussed
• 19:02
  like that. No, I don't. Question all right, So, how
• 19:06
  do you know that if you're on suicide watch, they
• 19:10
  should the inmate should have a cell mate. Thomas. I
• 19:13
  mean we were told. You're told before that if an
• 19:16
  inmate's previously been on suicide that he has a cell mate. Question.
• 19:21
  So I guess what I'm asking is when were you
• 19:23
  told that? And where? Thomas, I've been there for fourteen
• 19:27
  I mean I can't remember exactly. Question. So possibly training, Thomas,
• 19:33
  possibly training word of mouth like but I don't know. Question.
• 19:38
  You knew it, but you just don't remember where you
• 19:40
  learned it from. Thomas. Yeah, that's correct. But then you
• 19:43
  have inmates that go on suicide Watch and come back
• 19:46
  that don't have a cell mate. So I've seen that
• 19:48
  also have inmates go there, come off suicide and not
• 19:53
  have a cell mate. Question. Would there be a reason
• 19:56
  for a person who came off suicide watch not to
• 19:59
  have a cell mate, Mister Thomas, I don't know the
• 20:02
  reason or anything. Like I said, that's also the psychology
• 20:05
  personnel that handle that. But I've seen also with inmates
• 20:09
  come up and they go into a cell by themselves. Question. Okay,
• 20:15
  and again I don't know that this was clear. If
• 20:19
  you're working in the shoe and you know someone is
• 20:21
  supposed to have a cell mate. Are you authorized to
• 20:24
  provide them with a new cell mate? Mister Thomas, I
• 20:28
  don't know. Question you don't know, Thomas, I don't know.
• 20:31
  Question have you ever done it? Thomas? No, I've never
• 20:35
  done it. Question You've never done that? Thomas. No, I've
• 20:39
  never just put somebody inside. Are we talking about suicide?
• 20:42
  I've never just put somebody in a cell with somebody else. Question?
• 20:46
  Okay Thomas, especially not at morning watch, absolutely not. Question,
• 20:54
  as someone in the shoe working in there and knowing
• 20:57
  someone without a cell mate that should have a cell mate,
• 21:00
  should you report it to the lieutenant? Thomas, if they
• 21:02
  don't have a cell mate, should you report it to
• 21:04
  the lieutenant? I don't know. I mean usually if that happens,
• 21:08
  the lieutenant because with certain inmates you can't just put
• 21:11
  somebody in with them like that. It could be a
• 21:14
  racial thing, it could have been a previous incident, he
• 21:17
  could be whatever the case may be. So I know
• 21:20
  officers don't want to just do it because when they
• 21:23
  say that the person can't be with them. And also
• 21:26
  before you put an inmate inside, you have to check
• 21:29
  their background as far as steps. So this person can't
• 21:32
  be with this person or this one is affiliated with
• 21:35
  this and this person. So for an officer, because some
• 21:39
  officers don't have the programming, I mean, don't have the
• 21:42
  thing just to say, oh, well, I'm going to see
• 21:44
  inmate this and I'm going to put him into that.
• 21:48
  So that's why an officer wouldn't just put an inmate
• 21:51
  inside with another you know what I mean, It has
• 21:54
  to come down from up top. Question all right, from
• 21:57
  your knowledge being that rais left and Epstein is required
• 22:01
  to have a cell mate and didn't have one, do
• 22:03
  you believe shoe staff should have assigned Epstein a new
• 22:06
  cell mate? Answer? I don't know. Question So, per your
• 22:12
  training and your work experience, Thomas, should shoe staff have
• 22:18
  assigned him? No? I believe that should have come from
• 22:20
  somebody else above them. Question Okay, Thomas, somebody above the
• 22:26
  shoe staff. Question, So, if the shoe staff doesn't inform
• 22:30
  anyone about an inmate required to have a cell mate,
• 22:33
  that they don't, how do people hire above them learn
• 22:36
  that there is no cell mate with someone like Epstein? Thomas, Well,
• 22:40
  whoever is on shift at the time. It's a process
• 22:44
  like if someone leaves and goes from R and D.
• 22:47
  A staff member can't just let somebody leave, you know,
• 22:51
  I can't just let somebody walk just because he walk
• 22:54
  in and then he walks out. He has to come
• 22:57
  from R and D. Oh this person was released, and
• 22:59
  then because then the base count changes and then so
• 23:03
  it's notified before it gets to the shoe staff that
• 23:06
  somebody left. Now, if it wasn't you know that specific
• 23:10
  that ray is left. You know what I mean that,
• 23:13
  Jeffrey Epstein, I know before it gets to the shoe staff,
• 23:16
  happened to put somebody in there. It has to come
• 23:19
  from someone else to know that inmates left from a
• 23:22
  particular housing unit or Shoe have to tell them the
• 23:26
  inmate left from a particular Now, whether they know that
• 23:30
  it was Epstein's cell mate that left, I don't know.
• 23:32
  That's above me. But it comes from way up. It
• 23:35
  comes from before it gets to the shoe staff that
• 23:37
  somebody left. The only thing that shoe staff is going
• 23:40
  to get is a call saying that oh, base count
• 23:44
  changed such and such is not their question. So if
• 23:47
  the people that are calling Shoe and saying, hey, this
• 23:50
  inmate is leaving, so is this instance. It would be
• 23:53
  August ninth, shoe staff. You weren't there, but shoe staff
• 23:58
  gets the call and hey, inmate is leaving. Do those
• 24:01
  people know that Reyes was assigned to Epstein? Thomas? I mean,
• 24:05
  I'm sure they should have. Question or would the shoe
• 24:09
  staff be responsible for saying he's leaving? But Epstein is
• 24:13
  required to have a cell mate, that's Epstein's cell mate.
• 24:16
  How does that information get passed along? Thomas? I don't know?
• 24:20
  Question Okay, Thomas, I don't know when that particular, when
• 24:24
  that will happen. I really couldn't tell you when that
• 24:27
  call would actually go down. Question Okay, and this is
• 24:33
  specific to you. If you said you didn't, but you
• 24:36
  would been authorized to assign Epstein a new cell mate
• 24:39
  during your shift on August tenth, twenty nineteen, Thomas, would
• 24:43
  I have been authorized to do it? Question? Right? So,
• 24:46
  if you knew that Epstein was required to have a
• 24:48
  cell mate, Thomas, if somebody would have told me to
• 24:51
  give him, I would have just taken it upon myself
• 24:54
  to take an inmate out from X and put him
• 24:56
  in there with Epstein. No, if somebody authorized me to
• 24:59
  put in there, then I would have put him in there. Question.
• 25:04
  But you wouldn't have that authorization to do it independently. Thomas, independently,
• 25:08
  no question. So you couldn't on your own make the decision. Hey,
• 25:14
  he's without an inmate, he's without a cell mate. I
• 25:16
  need to get a new inmate in there. Thomas. I'm
• 25:21
  going to say, no question. Okay, Thomas, I'm going to
• 25:25
  say no, not especially with a high profile. You're not
• 25:28
  just going to put somebody in with somebody else. Absolutely,
• 25:31
  not question. All right. And obviously, since you didn't know,
• 25:35
  I believe I already know the answer to this. But
• 25:38
  did you notify anyone during your shift on August tenth
• 25:42
  that Epstein did not have a cell mate? Thomas, no question? No,
• 25:46
  all right. Now we're going to talk a little bit
• 25:49
  about staff psychologists because you mentioned them. Do you know
• 25:53
  who the MCC staff psychologists were in August of twenty nineteen,
• 25:58
  Thomas doctor redacted? Is doctor redacted? The chief? Thomas? Yeah,
• 26:03
  the chief or whatever it's called. Are you aware of
• 26:07
  Epstein meeting with any of the staff psychologists during his
• 26:11
  stay at the MCC Thomas no question. No, Thomas, No,
• 26:15
  I'm not question. So would have Thomas cuts them off?
• 26:21
  I'm sure if you went on suicide I'm sure he
• 26:23
  met with them, but I don't know specifically that they
• 26:25
  go on this date and he mel with them. If
• 26:28
  he was on suicide Watch, I'm sure he met with someone. Question. Now,
• 26:33
  who places someone on suicide watch? Thomas? Psychology? Question Okay,
• 26:37
  So if Epstein, like you said, was on suicide Watch,
• 26:40
  would psychology then place him there? Thomas, Well, a psychology
• 26:45
  will say that he has to go there, and then
• 26:47
  the staff, the custody staff would actually take him to
• 26:50
  the suicide area. Question okay, and just briefly, what is
• 26:54
  suicide watch? Answer? It's a place where you watch somebody
• 26:59
  on suicide question. Like you said, did you say the
• 27:02
  second floor? Thomas, It's on the second floor. Question. So
• 27:07
  the second floor is a separate area. Thomas, It's a
• 27:10
  separate area. Four cells and in the pack you can
• 27:13
  I've seen suicide watch be in the shoes sometimes. Question
• 27:17
  And just on that note, where is the shoe? What floor? Thomas?
• 27:21
  Ninth question? Ninth floor? All right, so he was on
• 27:25
  the ninth floor, went down to the second floor, Epstein,
• 27:28
  that is on suicide Watch. So it's the second floor,
• 27:31
  and like how long are they there? Like who makes
• 27:33
  the determination? I guess is what I'm saying. Who's in there?
• 27:37
  Is psychology like co located with it? Or how is it?
• 27:41
  You know, the suicide watch area? How is that set up? Thomas?
• 27:45
  It's a room on the second floor. It's four rooms
• 27:48
  on the second floor, single rooms, big glass door, food slot.
• 27:52
  Same on the other side. There are two adjoining doors.
• 27:55
  It has a shower there, so like if you have
• 27:57
  to shower then there is a clock. Question is psychology
• 28:02
  near there? Thomas? The psychology is down the hall? Question
• 28:06
  also on the second floor Thomas, also on the second floor. Question,
• 28:12
  so would they do you believe that they would meet
• 28:14
  with people that are on suicide watch? Answer? I'm sure yes. Question. Okay,
• 28:21
  all right, folks, We're gonna wrap up right there, and
• 28:23
  in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
• 28:26
  pick up where we left off. All of the information
• 28:29
  that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 28:32
  description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode
• 28:36
  of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna get
• 28:39
  right back to the Michael Thomas investigation with the OIG investigators. Question, So,
• 28:48
  when you're watching Epstein on July twenty third, did you
• 28:50
  see a psychologist talk with them at all. Thomas, that
• 28:54
  was on the morning watch, but no psychologists is on duty? Question? Oh, okay,
• 29:01
  so you were there from eight You were watching them
• 29:06
  Thomas from midnight to eight am Thomas, while I was
• 29:09
  watching them until well, exactly from one point thirty to
• 29:13
  eight am. Question. Now, when inmates though, like Epstein, he's
• 29:19
  on suicide watch and then placed back into the shoe,
• 29:22
  how soon after are they typically provided a cell mate,
• 29:26
  mister Thomas, I don't know. Question is it right away? Thomas?
• 29:30
  I'm sure it's right away? Question, So it's like you typically, like,
• 29:37
  is the cell mate already in there when they place
• 29:39
  him in with someone? Thomas? I don't know. It could
• 29:42
  be either or I'm sure that they made certain provisions
• 29:45
  and stuff to make sure that he was with somebody
• 29:48
  that he felt comfortable with, or whatever the case. Question
• 29:52
  to inmates that are on suicide watch and psychological observation,
• 29:56
  do they always go from there to the shoe or
• 29:59
  ever into somewhere else? Thomas? What do you mean? Question? So,
• 30:03
  if someone's on suicide watch or psychological observation Thomas on
• 30:08
  the second floor. Question on the second floor, when they're
• 30:11
  released from that. Do they always get placed into the
• 30:14
  shoe Thomas, No, it can be either. Or if they
• 30:18
  have some more shoe time that they have to serve
• 30:21
  or anything like that, they can go back to the shoe.
• 30:24
  But their shoe time is up. I'm assuming I'll say
• 30:28
  it's whatever the psychologists say. If they say that they're
• 30:31
  clear to go to population, they'll take them to population.
• 30:34
  Question Okay, what's the difference between Suicide Watch and Psychological
• 30:39
  Observation Thomas, Suicide Watch one has a smock and a
• 30:44
  blanket an observation, they have clothes. Question. That's the only difference, Thomas,
• 30:50
  That's the only difference. We still just watching them out there.
• 30:54
  There's no difference, Thomas, or anything like that. Yeah, no difference.
• 30:59
  You watch them. Question same area, same cell, Just what
• 31:04
  they're wearing. Thomas. Yeah, same area, same cells, and what
• 31:09
  they're wearing. Absolutely. Question okay, and is it your understanding
• 31:14
  the Epstein was both on Suicide Watch and Psychological Observation Thomas.
• 31:19
  I don't know if he was on Psychological I knew
• 31:22
  when I watched them he was on Suicide Watch at
• 31:24
  the time. Question Okay, did any other inmate that you
• 31:28
  were in the shoe when you were working in the
• 31:30
  shoe in July and August twenty nineteen. Were any of
• 31:33
  them also people that were on suicide watch or psychological observation? Thomas,
• 31:39
  I don't know. Question No, would that be on the
• 31:42
  hot list if they were? Thomas, it probably would. I
• 31:45
  don't know if it's something that other inmates. I couldn't
• 31:48
  tell you that there was five times suicides or that
• 31:51
  I couldn't tell you. Question okay, And are there any
• 31:55
  other additional requirements for people to come off of suicide
• 31:58
  watch or psychological observation asides from having a cell mate? Thomas,
• 32:03
  I don't know. Question do they have to get do
• 32:06
  they have to pay closer attention to them? Thomas? I
• 32:09
  don't think so. I just say that everything is still
• 32:12
  standard practice. Question Okay, So when you're working in the shoe,
• 32:16
  do you treat everybody the same? Thomas? No, I treat
• 32:20
  everybody the same. Question Okay. So you don't look after
• 32:24
  certain people more than others Thomas, No, I don't pay
• 32:27
  more attention to one person or another. Question Okay, And
• 32:32
  is that the case with Epstein as well? You aren't informed, like, hey,
• 32:36
  make sure you're paying more attention to him? He's your
• 32:39
  priority Thomas, no question. So no one ever said, Thomas
• 32:44
  cuts him off. No, absolutely not. Back to the question
• 32:48
  that he's a priority inmate. Okay, and I may have
• 32:51
  asked you this, so I apologize if it's repetitive, Thomas,
• 32:55
  it's all right. Question. But was Epstein required to have
• 32:59
  a cell mate during his stay in the shoe? Thomas?
• 33:01
  I don't know. Question. You just don't know, Thomas. I
• 33:05
  don't know exactly, but I don't know. I don't know,
• 33:09
  but I would say if he was previous suicide, yeah,
• 33:12
  he was probably required to have an inmate. Question. Are
• 33:16
  you aware that the staff psychologist ever issued a requirement
• 33:19
  for him to have a cell mate? Thomas, No, I'm not.
• 33:22
  I don't know. Question. So did anyone, including the psychologist, peers, supervisors,
• 33:28
  or others ever tell you that Epstein was required to
• 33:31
  have a cell mate? Thomas, no question. Do you have
• 33:35
  the email mister redacted? Let me see is there one
• 33:39
  more stack redacted? So this is the email from that
• 33:44
  redacted from psychology and it says to suicide Watch Psychological
• 33:50
  Observation Update seven point thirty twenty nineteen. Do you know
• 33:54
  if you ever receive this email? It says inmate Epstein
• 33:57
  is being taken off psych observation and to be housed
• 34:00
  with an appropriate cellmate. Do you remember ever receiving that, Thomas.
• 34:06
  Usually they send this out to everybody, like it's sent
• 34:08
  out to everybody, But I don't remember seeing it. I'm
• 34:11
  sure if it was sent out and all that stuff,
• 34:14
  I'm sure it got to me, but I don't remember
• 34:16
  seeing it. Question. No, And I'm not saying that you
• 34:19
  received it. I'm just asking if you had received it,
• 34:22
  like either by forward. Did anyone ever forward the email
• 34:25
  to you? Or did anybody did you ever see it? Thomas, No,
• 34:30
  my name's not on here? Question Yeah? Yeah, yeah, No,
• 34:33
  I know your name isn't on here. Thomas. Uh huh. Question.
• 34:37
  You're right, That's why I'm just asking if you have
• 34:39
  ever forwarded that to you. Thomas, Uh huh. Question. Okay,
• 34:44
  do any of these names that are on here, especially
• 34:47
  towards the bottom here, any of those names look like
• 34:49
  people that would work in the shoe, Thomas. It could
• 34:53
  be a bunch of these people that worked in the shoe.
• 34:55
  I don't know specifically who works in the shoe. Question. Okay,
• 35:00
  but because you weren't on a regular shoe schedule. You
• 35:02
  may not, Thomas interrupts them. Yeah, yeah, they may not
• 35:07
  have forwarded that to you. One of those is the chaplain.
• 35:13
  That's okay, but you never none of these people ever
• 35:16
  forwarded this to you, Thomas, no question. Okay, just because
• 35:21
  we talked about it, do you mind just initialing it
• 35:23
  and dating it? Thank you, sir, mister Thomas, I wrote twenty,
• 35:28
  so I initialed over it. I put the one because
• 35:30
  I initialed over it when writing it redacted. What's that? Thomas?
• 35:35
  I put twenty question this at nineteen, yeah, Thomas, No,
• 35:38
  I put twenty, so I put the one and I
• 35:40
  put my initials over it. Oh okay, got it all right? Thanks?
• 35:46
  So no one ever informed you that even not only that,
• 35:50
  but you needed to keep a close crye on mister Epstein. Thomas, No,
• 35:54
  I don't ever recall being informed about that. No, Thomas,
• 36:00
  I mean, I'm not a custody He gets cut off. Sure,
• 36:03
  I didn't know during your times that you're actually in
• 36:06
  the shoe people talking about like and at midnight, everybody's gone,
• 36:13
  just the people, because you're always with at least one
• 36:15
  other person, right, Thomas, yeah, question, but the other person
• 36:19
  you never had this, Thomas, I don't recall question. Conversation. Okay,
• 36:25
  do you recall who the MCC warden in July of
• 36:28
  August twenty nineteen was, mister Thomas. I can't pronounce his
• 36:32
  first name redacted? Question? Is it redacted? Thomas? I was
• 36:37
  about to say captain, but redacted Thomas, but you said
• 36:42
  the warden right. Question? Yeah, so he gives them the name? Question? Okay, good.
• 36:49
  What communication do you have with MCC warden with regarding
• 36:53
  to the Epstein being housed within the MCC Thomas, I
• 36:57
  don't recall none, Thomas, no question. So I'm going to
• 37:03
  go through just a couple of names, and the reason
• 37:06
  why I'm going to ask the same questions, and the
• 37:09
  intention is not to be repetitive, but for you to
• 37:12
  specifically think these people, to just see if that helps
• 37:15
  you recall Thomas, you know, jog something. Question, Yeah, you know,
• 37:20
  so you can visualize that person. Question. So did the
• 37:24
  warden ever provide you with special instructions with Epstein? Thomas, No,
• 37:29
  not that I recall. Question. Okay, did the warden ever
• 37:32
  tell you that Epstein was required to have a cell
• 37:35
  mate well housed at MCC or assigned to the shoe, Thomas,
• 37:39
  not that I recall. Question did the warden ever visit
• 37:42
  the shoe during Epstein's stay at the MCC Thomas, I
• 37:46
  don't know. Question. You don't know because you weren't there
• 37:49
  during the days. Does the warden typically just work during
• 37:52
  the day watch Thomas No, I actually had an overtime
• 37:55
  shift with the warden sometime when he helped out with
• 38:00
  He worked the shoe with me one time. Question When
• 38:04
  did he do that? Thomas, I can't recall. Question would
• 38:07
  it have been like in the July or August of
• 38:09
  twenty nineteen? Thomas, Nah, this was a long time ago,
• 38:13
  A long time ago. Question, Sam Warton Thomas, Yeah, same
• 38:16
  warden question. Okay, do you recall any times that you
• 38:21
  were in the shoe during July and August during Epstein's
• 38:25
  stay that the warden visited Thomas No, I'm on morning watch.
• 38:29
  Question right, That's what I meant, because you had said
• 38:32
  that sometimes he did though, Thomas, Yeah. Question okay, but
• 38:36
  not during that time, Thomas, not during my time? No question.
• 38:40
  Do you know if the warden ever met with Epstein
• 38:43
  during his stay here at MCC, Mister Thomas, I don't know. Question,
• 38:48
  who are the MCC associate wardens in August of twenty
• 38:51
  nineteen Thomas redacted, And honestly, I can't remember the other
• 38:55
  one question. Did the warden ever talk about Epstein? Okay?
• 39:01
  Did any aw's or associate wardens Thomas, no question? All right, Thomas,
• 39:08
  not any question. So what communications did you have with
• 39:11
  any MCC aw's, including redacted, about Epstein being housed within
• 39:17
  the MCC? None? What aw's did you communicate with and
• 39:21
  how were those communications conducted? Did you ever discuss anything
• 39:25
  with aws? Did you ever have conversations with them? Thomas?
• 39:30
  How's your day going? Question? Yeah, but not like sitting
• 39:33
  down talking about different inmates or something. Thomas, no question, No,
• 39:38
  all right? And did any AWS ever provide you with
• 39:42
  any information with regard to Epstein? Thomas, no question? Or
• 39:46
  special instruction Thomas, no question. And did any AW including
• 39:52
  aw redacted ever tell you that Epstein was required to
• 39:55
  have a cellmate? Thomas, no question. Did any AW ever
• 40:00
  visit the shoe while you were in the shoe Thomas,
• 40:03
  no question. No, did any AW ever meet with Epstein
• 40:08
  during his stay at MCC Thomas from I don't know? Question? Okay,
• 40:13
  who was the MCC captain in July and August of
• 40:16
  twenty nineteen. Thomas, I see his face, but I can't
• 40:19
  remember his name. Question was it redacted? Thomas? Yeah, there
• 40:24
  you go, There you go. Question, so it was redacted?
• 40:30
  Thomas yeah. Question okay, what communication did you have with
• 40:35
  Captain redacted with regarding to Epstein being housed at MCC none?
• 40:40
  Would you have any communication with the captain Thomas no
• 40:43
  passing by question did the captain ever provide you with
• 40:47
  special instructions with regard to Epstein? Thomas no question. Did
• 40:52
  the captain ever tell you that Epstein was required to
• 40:55
  have a cellmate? Thomas no question. Did the Captain ever
• 41:00
  visit the Shoe during Epstein's stay at MCC Thomas, I
• 41:04
  don't know. Question did the captain ever but not while
• 41:08
  you were at the shoe? Thomas? Not while I was
• 41:11
  in the shoe? No question. Did the captain ever have
• 41:14
  a meeting with Epstein during his stay at the MCC Thomas,
• 41:18
  I don't know. Okay. Question do you want to take
• 41:22
  a break right now? Answer yes, okay, So we're going
• 41:26
  to take a break right here as well, and in
• 41:27
  the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going to
• 41:30
  pick up where we left off. All of the information
• 41:33
  that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 41:36
  description box.