Latest / Hope + Possibilities: Trust, Leadership + Strategic Foresight / Let's Talk Thought Leadership and Podcasting in Canada with Amanda Cupido

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Let's Talk Thought Leadership and Podcasting in Canada with Amanda Cupido · Hope + Possibilities: Trust, Leadership + Strategic Foresight

• 0:17
  Find yourself in.
• 0:23
  All right.
• 0:23
  Thanks for joining me.
• 0:24
  I'm Nola Simon and I am the host of Hope and Possibilities, a love
• 0:28
  letter to the Future of work.
• 0:29
  And my guest today is Amanda.
• 0:32
  She is the owner and founder of lead Podcasting.
• 0:36
  And she's also very a speaker.
• 0:39
  She was recently doing a Ted Talk.
• 0:42
  You've actually been to attend a Ted AI conference.
• 0:47
  And she actually was involved in doing the podcasting for Toronto Metropolitan
• 0:50
  University, which happens to be where my daughter actually goes to university.
• 0:54
  So there's a whole bunch of excitement with this, especially in this area
• 0:58
  because Amanda is like the first person who's actually ever driven up
• 1:02
  to Keswick to come and do a podcast in person in our podcast studio at
• 1:07
  the the library the Merck in Keswick.
• 1:10
  I was the first person to actually do a podcast about this podcast,
• 1:13
  studio and resource, and Amanda has added us to her national book
• 1:20
  tour and I feel really validated
• 1:24
  so You're sweet.
• 1:25
  I'm really here 'cause of you.
• 1:26
  So I really appreciate it.
• 1:28
  I love coming out to different areas across across, of course
• 1:32
  across the country, but especially in the GTA 'cause I just feel like
• 1:34
  there's a lot of great talent, great stories and great people like you.
• 1:38
  So thanks for inviting me out and connecting me with the folks here
• 1:41
  and I'm really happy to be here.
• 1:42
  You're welcome.
• 1:43
  And now that the 4 0 4 is finished, we can all direct people to say
• 1:46
  you can get to was real easy.
• 1:47
  It's where the 4 0 4 ends.
• 1:49
  Yeah.
• 1:50
  That's a nice tagline.
• 1:51
  That's good.
• 1:53
  No, before I when I first started driving the 4 0 4 only went to Bloomington.
• 1:57
  Wow.
• 1:58
  Okay.
• 1:58
  Just
• 1:58
  aging me.
• 1:59
  But anyway, so what we wanted to do was actually talk about
• 2:03
  podcast resources in Canada.
• 2:05
  Quite honestly, when I was learning how to do podcasting, I didn't actually know
• 2:11
  the only person who actually made me feel that I could do it again, it was the
• 2:15
  whole six degree separation kind of thing.
• 2:17
  John Lee Dumas is an American podcaster who happened to work for John Hancock,
• 2:22
  which is where I worked for years.
• 2:25
  And he happens to be he actually left during 2008 the whole financial meltdown
• 2:31
  there and he started doing podcasting.
• 2:33
  He just fell into it.
• 2:34
  But he started telling a story about a work situation that I also remember
• 2:39
  in 2008, and I was like, if he can do it with that background, I can do it.
• 2:44
  And I started looking at all the resources that are available.
• 2:47
  And so many of them are American.
• 2:49
  And that's the fabulous thing of Amanda, is she's actually
• 2:52
  written Canadian resources.
• 2:54
  That's it.
• 2:55
  Thank you.
• 2:55
  I like, I think that's important actually because we tend to look at a lot of
• 3:00
  American resources when it comes to media and learning and engaging with content.
• 3:05
  And it's nice to have something that's local and also is leaning
• 3:09
  into the fact that it's local.
• 3:10
  So sometimes we have Canadians who create content with the North American
• 3:14
  audience in mind, and then they don't even acknowledge that they're from Canada.
• 3:17
  But I've tried to lean into it.
• 3:19
  So I definitely acknowledge throughout my book let's talk podcasting that
• 3:22
  we're talking about this show, but here's the Canadian equivalent, or
• 3:25
  we're talking about these stats, but here's what's happening in Canada.
• 3:27
  So I always tried to bring in that, that Canadian lens.
• 3:30
  'cause I think it's important.
• 3:31
  It is really important because it makes you feel like you belong and that you
• 3:35
  recognize what's happening in your local area and also like across the country.
• 3:41
  And you're starting to recognize that you're not alone.
• 3:44
  Yes, exactly.
• 3:45
  When you actually look at like the charts, like if you go to Apple and you
• 3:49
  look at the top charts on Apple it's rare to see Canadians anywhere there.
• 3:53
  Yeah,
• 3:54
  I know very few people actually chart on Apple.
• 3:57
  Amanda though does,
• 3:59
  Yes.
• 3:59
  And I've and it's nice to be able to have said that you charted on Apple podcasts.
• 4:03
  Yes.
• 4:04
  And there are different charts depending on the country too.
• 4:07
  So Yeah, it's like looking at the Canadian charts and seeing what shows make it to
• 4:11
  those charts that are made in Canada.
• 4:13
  It's tough.
• 4:13
  It's tough and it's
• 4:14
  hard even.
• 4:15
  Filtering it out to see, I know.
• 4:17
  Yeah.
• 4:17
  Whether it was actually made in Canada.
• 4:18
  Yes.
• 4:19
  It's really challenging to be able to do that.
• 4:21
  You wanna hear my most important metric that I think is the
• 4:24
  most hilarious thing ever.
• 4:25
  Okay.
• 4:26
  Shoot.
• 4:26
  So I don't usually chart on Apple, but I do chart on good
• 4:30
  pos, which is another player.
• 4:31
  Great.
• 4:32
  And I love good thoughts.
• 4:33
  Yeah.
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  They're great Used and they make discoverability easy, but,
• 4:36
  they have, they've introduced so many categories and one of the
• 4:38
  categories is the office, ah, fun.
• 4:41
  It's me and Ricky.
• 4:42
  J Ricky jva.
• 4:43
  Yeah.
• 4:45
  At first.
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  Oh my God, really?
• 4:49
  It's the best metric ever because it absolutely means nothing.
• 4:52
  Take it and it's hilariously funny.
• 4:54
  Yeah.
• 4:54
  That's amazing.
• 4:56
  Oh my gosh, that's really funny.
• 4:58
  And good pause is great too to you talk about finding a sense of belonging
• 5:01
  in this space and one feature, if folks haven't used it before, is it
• 5:05
  has like a home feed of what all of your connections are listening to.
• 5:09
  Yes.
• 5:09
  So you get to see and learn.
• 5:11
  And it's great for podcast discoverability, which is also
• 5:13
  tough in the industry these days.
• 5:15
  Yeah, exactly.
• 5:15
  And you can actually make a list of like your favorite podcast and you
• 5:19
  can share that out really easily and you can review right in it.
• 5:22
  And so I think the functionality of it, even though I do listen
• 5:25
  to Apple Podcasts a lot, yeah.
• 5:27
  Is really important.
• 5:28
  And that's honestly, if you were gonna review me, if you reviewed me
• 5:31
  on Good Pods, that would be amazing.
• 5:33
  All right.
• 5:33
  There you go.
• 5:33
  Listeners, you have your to-do, go over to Good pos.
• 5:38
  Nice.
• 5:38
  You got into audio really early.
• 5:41
  Yes.
• 5:42
  I've always loved audio.
• 5:43
  I was listening to the radio a lot as a kid.
• 5:48
  I would be, I talk about this in my TEDx talk where I would be like listening to
• 5:53
  the radio and instead of making mixed tapes with songs that I liked from
• 5:56
  the radio, I'd be calling into radio stations and recording myself when
• 6:00
  I, when my little segment aired and then making a mix tape of me talking.
• 6:05
  So it was essentially a podcast.
• 6:07
  But it was early days and as the medium continued to evolve,
• 6:12
  I just loved experimenting.
• 6:13
  And I went and studied journalism, as you mentioned, at Toronto Metropolitan
• 6:17
  University and focused on radio with most of my classes 'cause I loved audio.
• 6:22
  But ever since I got into the radio industry, I was making
• 6:25
  podcasts on the side since day one.
• 6:26
  So I made my first podcast in 2010, a long time ago now.
• 6:31
  And now happily working and podcasting full time.
• 6:34
  That's really cool.
• 6:36
  I have an opposite reaction.
• 6:37
  My father used to love to listen to talk radio.
• 6:40
  Cfr b was the thing I got to listen to like maybe one or two songs.
• 6:44
  And then we had to switch back to talk radio.
• 6:45
  So I hate talk radio.
• 6:48
  Okay.
• 6:49
  You're you were like, it was forced down your throat.
• 6:51
  So now
• 6:52
  it was Right.
• 6:53
  But it was also, there was never anything that was actually topical to
• 6:57
  something that I was interested in.
• 6:59
  It was really hard to find age appropriate podcasting.
• 7:03
  And that's actually what's interesting about the books that you've published
• 7:05
  is not only is it podcasting for adults, you actually have a book about podcasting
• 7:10
  for kids because you notice that Disney.
• 7:13
  Is interested in audio.
• 7:15
  Yes, that's right.
• 7:16
  So I was doing research for the second edition of my adult
• 7:20
  book, if you wanna call it that.
• 7:22
  So let's talk.
• 7:23
  Podcasting originally came out in 2018.
• 7:25
  The second edition came out last year in 2024.
• 7:28
  And I was updating everything and I including the age
• 7:31
  brackets and the listener stats around certain age brackets.
• 7:36
  And that's when I stumbled upon this research that Disney invested in with
• 7:41
  Edison research that showed there was a huge uptick in listenership
• 7:46
  for kids under the age of 12.
• 7:48
  And this is when I was like, wait, what?
• 7:50
  And then they even did further research and there was research to
• 7:53
  show that kids even age five to eight were actively listening to podcasts.
• 7:57
  And that number was growing year over year.
• 7:59
  And I had never really thought about that age demo and what that might look like.
• 8:04
  When I saw that there was that big of a audience there, I went
• 8:07
  what resources do they have?
• 8:09
  And I started searching There is, there are no books for that age group.
• 8:12
  And so that's why I thought I have to just write a an a kid's book now.
• 8:16
  So let's Talk.
• 8:17
  Podcasting for Kids was written at the same time as I was
• 8:20
  updating my original book.
• 8:21
  And it launched this year in March, and that is for age five to eight.
• 8:25
  And it introduces them to the medium and then encourages them to tell their own
• 8:30
  story and interview their family members.
• 8:32
  Of course there's a lot of caution to be had with kids
• 8:36
  uploading content on the internet.
• 8:37
  And so the book gently encourages them to either perform it as a live
• 8:41
  podcast or to record it and just keep it for themselves as a private podcast.
• 8:45
  So I think that's nice also to to acknowledge,
• 8:48
  right?
• 8:48
  And it's fascinating how you can build that storytelling skill.
• 8:53
  Young.
• 8:53
  That's amazing.
• 8:54
  Yes.
• 8:54
  And with the push to get kids away from screens podcasting is a fabulous medium.
• 8:59
  That's going to be something that is flexible.
• 9:03
  Still exposes them to content that isn't visual.
• 9:07
  Yep.
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  Doesn't have to be visual.
• 9:09
  Yep.
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  I have a big thing about video podcasts.
• 9:11
  We're doing video for this, but it's not, it doesn't have
• 9:16
  to be what I personally like
• 9:18
  to have
• 9:18
  as a podcast.
• 9:19
  That's fair.
• 9:19
  So fair.
• 9:19
  I think that's really cool for kids.
• 9:21
  Yes.
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  Because there's a growing concern around screen time and also we see
• 9:24
  that it helps park their imagination.
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  So one of the activities I'll do when I do my Podcasting for Kids Workshop
• 9:29
  is have a group of, I'll do this for like grade ones, twos, threes have a
• 9:33
  group of kids listen to an audio story and then we go around the room and
• 9:37
  say, the woman's voice in that podcast, what do you think she looked like?
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  And each one is describing this character that they imagined in their
• 9:43
  mind, purple hair with a black t-shirt.
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  And they're like going off on what they described as their character
• 9:48
  and we get to hear how everybody thought of something different.
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  And at the end of that exercise I say no one's right and no one's wrong.
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  Everyone just got to create a something in their mind.
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  And that means a part of them is in that story now.
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  And that's the beauty of audio storytelling.
• 10:01
  So getting that's great for brain health.
• 10:03
  So that's like a nice piece to it.
• 10:04
  And you talk about the championing their voice.
• 10:06
  And you'll see even at that young of an age students who don't wanna
• 10:09
  listen to their voice back and say, I don't like the way I sound.
• 10:12
  Or they'll plug their ears when we do an exercise where I'm recording
• 10:16
  them and I'm playing it back.
• 10:17
  But I do it on purpose and I make everybody cheer for everyone and
• 10:21
  really start to embrace that.
• 10:23
  We gotta love our voices.
• 10:24
  Every voice is unique, every voice is special.
• 10:27
  And what I also try to start to explain is scientifically
• 10:32
  why we sound different when we.
• 10:34
  Hear ourselves back, right?
• 10:36
  So our ears are behind our mouth.
• 10:37
  And I just use that example for the kids to say, and look, it's behind you.
• 10:41
  And when you're talking to Mike, the mic's in front of you, and of course it's
• 10:43
  gonna sound different, and that's okay.
• 10:45
  That's science.
• 10:46
  And so hoping to instill these kind of nuggets of information young so
• 10:50
  that they can grow to love their voice and not be so hard on themselves.
• 10:53
  Yeah.
• 10:54
  No, and but it's also not just for kids too, because just actually before
• 10:57
  I came over here, I happened to see somebody had written that basically like
• 11:01
  women over 50, they wanna silence us.
• 11:03
  But we
• 11:04
  didn't get silence.
• 11:05
  We picked up a microphone.
• 11:06
  Heck yeah.
• 11:07
  Yes.
• 11:09
  I know.
• 11:09
  When the number of women podcasters are increasing like over the years
• 11:13
  and it's tripled over, I just read a stat that women listenership
• 11:17
  has tripled over the last decade.
• 11:19
  Yeah.
• 11:19
  So it actually used to be skewed with more men listening to podcasts and, but now
• 11:23
  we've really seen an uptick with women and that women like to listen to women.
• 11:25
  So there you go.
• 11:27
  It's
• 11:27
  great.
• 11:27
  Yeah.
• 11:28
  Yeah.
• 11:28
  Actually, it's fascinating that you say that because I. Really try to actually
• 11:32
  balance the difference between my guests.
• 11:35
  And make sure that I've got like a representation.
• 11:37
  Great.
• 11:37
  But when I listen to women.
• 11:39
  See, there you go.
• 11:40
  And I I actually had a debate with, actually, he happens to be Canadian,
• 11:43
  a really long standing podcaster.
• 11:45
  You'll know their name I won't talk
• 11:46
  about.
• 11:46
  Okay.
• 11:47
  Yeah.
• 11:48
  And honestly, every time I engage with him, I just get irritated.
• 11:51
  Oh my gosh.
• 11:52
  Fiery, we got some fiery ones in the mix.
• 11:55
  Yeah, exactly.
• 11:56
  But I think it's really important that you have a voice and it's a way that
• 12:00
  people can maybe counter the loneliness epidemic because a lot of loneliness
• 12:05
  is about not feeling seen and heard.
• 12:07
  Yeah.
• 12:07
  So podcasting is a way that you can do that.
• 12:10
  Yeah, definitely.
• 12:11
  And I think sometimes there's been a lot of research around loneliness and
• 12:14
  people who have people around them would assume that, oh, you're not lonely.
• 12:18
  You have a partner, you have a family, but.
• 12:21
  You can still feel lonely when being surrounded with people.
• 12:24
  So if that is the case, how can you continue to do outreach and
• 12:28
  build community in ways beyond just your immediate household?
• 12:32
  And yeah, podcasting definitely allows for that, that relationship with and
• 12:36
  the intimacy that people feel from listening to podcast hosts, it's nice.
• 12:39
  And I think that's a really important part of it.
• 12:41
  And honestly, that's why I podcast is, my family doesn't necessarily
• 12:45
  wanna listen to all of my current theories on what the future of work is.
• 12:49
  Or could be Right.
• 12:50
  So it gives me an outlet to really talk about things that are out there
• 12:55
  that aren't necessarily things that I have somebody else to talk about with.
• 13:00
  There you go.
• 13:00
  Yeah.
• 13:01
  And that's the best thing about podcasting too.
• 13:03
  It's an excuse to get really smart people who sometimes will even come up
• 13:06
  and actually meet with you in person.
• 13:08
  Why not?
• 13:09
  And they'll talk to you and tell you.
• 13:11
  Amazing advice, just for free.
• 13:13
  Yeah, no, it's great.
• 13:14
  It's really fun.
• 13:15
  Yeah, exactly.
• 13:16
  And do you find, what, I'm just, now I'm reversing it.
• 13:19
  'cause I'm curious, like what did you, what was what were you
• 13:23
  expecting when you started a podcast and did creating a podcast meet
• 13:27
  those expectations or surpass them?
• 13:28
  Or what was it like pre podcast?
• 13:30
  Amazing question.
• 13:31
  It's almost like I fed that to you.
• 13:32
  Like seriously.
• 13:33
  No, but I wanna know.
• 13:35
  So my story was I actually got laid off.
• 13:37
  Okay.
• 13:38
  But I had been in call centers for the majority of my career,
• 13:41
  and then I moved into sales.
• 13:43
  So I was very used to talking to people like all day long.
• 13:46
  Okay.
• 13:46
  And when I got laid off and was home with my kids and didn't necessarily
• 13:52
  have to talk to everybody about things all day long, I eventually found that I
• 13:57
  was, I felt like I was being silenced.
• 13:59
  And I needed an outlet.
• 14:00
  Yeah.
• 14:01
  But I also needed an outlet that would allow me to talk about
• 14:03
  things that I thought were.
• 14:06
  Important because I'm also the type of person who tends to be
• 14:08
  on the outskirts of the future.
• 14:13
  Yeah.
• 14:13
  Like I, I notice patterns, I notice things that happen Yep.
• 14:16
  Before they really happens.
• 14:18
  If you started podcasting in 2010, you can relate to that.
• 14:20
  Yes.
• 14:21
  Yeah.
• 14:22
  Early, right?
• 14:23
  Like I tend to be that type of person too.
• 14:24
  Frequently I don't necessarily always have people who are like that.
• 14:28
  So I started because I wanted to advance a personal brand for, work because I
• 14:35
  decided to start a consulting company.
• 14:36
  Yeah.
• 14:37
  So strategic in terms of how do I support myself, but also it was I
• 14:42
  felt like I wasn't being listened to.
• 14:43
  Yeah.
• 14:43
  And so when I was talking to people, I also noticed myself interrupting.
• 14:47
  So I was trying to actually train myself to be a better listener.
• 14:50
  Wow.
• 14:51
  And that was in the other part of it as well too.
• 14:54
  And do you feel like you accomplished all that?
• 14:56
  I feel like I have.
• 14:57
  Wow, that's
• 14:58
  so good.
• 14:59
  Yep.
• 14:59
  It was funny, I took a story tour in telling course once probably 2019.
• 15:04
  2020. Yep.
• 15:05
  Somebody in she's actually through Eth Godin.
• 15:07
  She actually Oh, great.
• 15:08
  She's in Australia.
• 15:10
  Cool.
• 15:10
  She wrote a piece today.
• 15:12
  Wow.
• 15:12
  What are the odds?
• 15:13
  I know about noticing that she was not as good a listener as she wanted to be.
• 15:17
  And how she was training herself to be that way.
• 15:18
  And I was just like, wow.
• 15:20
  That's, I think, something that could really resonate.
• 15:23
  I, and I don't think that people think about podcasting as a way to help them
• 15:28
  develop speaking skills, listening skills.
• 15:31
  Communication skills overall.
• 15:32
  Yeah.
• 15:33
  Yep.
• 15:33
  For sure.
• 15:34
  I think listening is so important in all aspects of our life, and podcasting
• 15:39
  really forces you to get good at it.
• 15:41
  And, but that.
• 15:42
  Yeah, but that skill is gonna have ripple effects far beyond the podcast studio.
• 15:46
  So I think it's really commendable that that someone might start
• 15:51
  a podcast for that reason, the opposite of what you might think
• 15:53
  to sharpen those listening skills.
• 15:54
  'cause you really do have to be present and listening in order to
• 15:58
  do a great interview and to have a great conversation and to let it flow.
• 16:01
  And so I think that as a journalist, as a trained journalist, that was
• 16:06
  my crash course in, oh, I gotta be listening 'cause I'm looking
• 16:10
  for that golden nugget of a clip.
• 16:12
  I have to think of the great follow-up questions, and so that training on
• 16:15
  the act of listening part, I got young, which was and I loved it.
• 16:19
  And I think it's helped come into, as a foundational skill for, as I
• 16:24
  moved into the podcasting space too.
• 16:25
  And I think there's whole books on listening.
• 16:28
  So if anybody is wanting to, and it takes a little bit of.
• 16:32
  Self-awareness to recognize, hey, maybe I'm not a great listener.
• 16:35
  Yeah.
• 16:35
  No it's great to continue to be aware of that side of things.
• 16:38
  Yeah.
• 16:38
  And there's different types of listening are you listening so that you can talk?
• 16:42
  Or are you listening to learn?
• 16:44
  What does the person need from you in that moment?
• 16:46
  And just allowing that space sometimes.
• 16:49
  Yeah.
• 16:50
  Space never happens in podcasts.
• 16:52
  I notice.
• 16:53
  It depends.
• 16:54
  Especially like certain ones where Yeah.
• 16:55
  They're like talking over each other.
• 16:56
  But if you can, you let the there be silence a little bit.
• 17:01
  Sometimes it can be powerful too.
• 17:03
  You know who uses space?
• 17:04
  Who?
• 17:05
  Malcolm
• 17:05
  Gladwell.
• 17:05
  Yeah.
• 17:06
  There we go.
• 17:06
  Nice.
• 17:07
  Yeah.
• 17:07
  Yeah.
• 17:08
  Does a good job of it.
• 17:09
  I love Krista Tippet in on being podcast.
• 17:12
  She also does a great, oh yeah, check it out.
• 17:15
  She does a, she's a great interviewer and she's really great with, sometimes
• 17:19
  she'll even I use this clip, so this is why I know it off the top of my head.
• 17:22
  'cause I use it in a lot of my workshops where she's interviewing
• 17:25
  Brene Brown and actually she just reads.
• 17:27
  A quote from Brene's book back to Brene Brown.
• 17:31
  And then just lets, and then just lets her go.
• 17:34
  But she just, and then she just sits and Brene, is obviously media trained and will
• 17:38
  speak, but letting her be a minute and Brene will really think before she speaks.
• 17:42
  So actually that's common.
• 17:44
  Yeah.
• 17:44
  For her.
• 17:45
  Did you
• 17:45
  listen to the podcast that they, she did.
• 17:47
  Was Adam Grant for her latest book?
• 17:49
  I did.
• 17:50
  And she teases him?
• 17:51
  Yes.
• 17:53
  ' cause he got feedback.
• 17:54
  That he needs to be more like Brene Brown in terms of actually thinking through
• 17:58
  the questions and allowing that space.
• 18:00
  Yeah.
• 18:01
  So it's funny you bring that
• 18:01
  up.
• 18:01
  I know, and I love that you listen to that.
• 18:03
  'cause I love them too.
• 18:04
  And so for those of you who don't know, there's Brene Brown has a Dare to Lead
• 18:08
  podcast and she did a separate subseries within this to promote her upcoming books.
• 18:14
  And Adam Grant takes the host role instead of Brene and
• 18:17
  interviews her about the book.
• 18:18
  So this is what we're referencing.
• 18:20
  And and there's actually many moments in that miniseries where there's
• 18:23
  a lot of silence actually, though.
• 18:24
  There is.
• 18:24
  Yeah.
• 18:25
  Because, and she'll, she's such a deep thinker and she'll be even,
• 18:27
  she'll even say, gimme a second, I, I wanna formulate my response
• 18:31
  properly, but I gotta just process it.
• 18:33
  She'll, so she'll preface it, take her moment to think and then talk
• 18:37
  and, I think it's very effective.
• 18:39
  So I wanna highlight the fact that Amanda.
• 18:41
  Just did something that's amazing that I didn't think to do, which was give you
• 18:45
  that whole backstory because I'm assuming that you had that backstory and, I'm
• 18:50
  just, I know I'm just a trained broadcaster, I'm like, we go, we just
• 18:54
  gotta give it to them just in case.
• 18:55
  And it's funny, some people don't.
• 18:56
  I'll reference, there's certain thought leaders like Brene Brown who in my
• 19:00
  world is very mainstream, and I think for yours too, but even sometimes I'll
• 19:03
  come up at the end of presentations and someone will say, but who is Brene Brown?
• 19:06
  And I was like, whoa.
• 19:07
  I guess I have to give context on that one too.
• 19:09
  So if you don't know Brene Brown, she's a researcher around belonging, happiness.
• 19:12
  And she has a PhD. She lives in Texas.
• 19:15
  But as very famous Ted talk about belonging and vulnerability
• 19:20
  that you could check out.
• 19:20
  But anyway, sometimes you just never know who, what context is needing.
• 19:23
  We need it.
• 19:24
  So of course I always try to jump into to, to help keep podcasts inclusive.
• 19:29
  Yeah.
• 19:29
  No, it makes sense.
• 19:30
  And Adam Grant is a professor at Wharton who talks about the future of work.
• 19:34
  Yes.
• 19:34
  But also, he's a psychologist.
• 19:36
  Yeah.
• 19:36
  So it's the how people live at work basically.
• 19:39
  Exactly.
• 19:40
  And they're both PhD grads who really love the research behind all of this.
• 19:44
  Yes.
• 19:44
  And I appreciate that it's always grounded with real research, what they talk about.
• 19:48
  Yes.
• 19:49
  Yeah.
• 19:49
  It's, those are honestly two of my favorite people
• 19:52
  to listen.
• 19:52
  Yeah.
• 19:53
  We're very similar.
• 19:54
  I'm the same.
• 19:54
  I'm a big fan.
• 19:55
  Yeah, exactly.
• 19:56
  So I wanted to actually switch to the speaking aspect of it.
• 20:00
  Yeah.
• 20:00
  So not only do you do audio podcasting, but you also do keynote speaking.
• 20:05
  Yep.
• 20:05
  And you have done a TED Talk?
• 20:07
  Yes.
• 20:07
  I tried to do a TED Talk.
• 20:08
  I applied for the global TED Talk.
• 20:09
  Oh.
• 20:11
  And
• 20:11
  got
• 20:11
  declined.
• 20:11
  It's, they must have got so many.
• 20:13
  Of course I saw those course they were running ads for it.
• 20:15
  Yes.
• 20:16
  So it's good for you for applying though, that's good First step.
• 20:19
  I, to be honest, I had applied to many TED stages before I got one.
• 20:23
  So it's not easy.
• 20:25
  It's a tough thing to crack the nut on.
• 20:27
  But my TEDx talk was with Toronto Metropolitan University,
• 20:30
  which was my alumnus.
• 20:32
  It was a great fit.
• 20:33
  But even that stage, like I had applied to be on that stage
• 20:36
  multiple times before they chose me.
• 20:37
  So sometimes it just takes time.
• 20:40
  But I do love speaking.
• 20:41
  I feel obviously the audio storytelling and being on a
• 20:43
  stage, it's all storytelling, but.
• 20:47
  It is different because like here, there's no one, it's just us two in a
• 20:50
  room and some folks who come up on the radio side don't necessarily always
• 20:57
  enjoy being on a stage with hundreds or thousands of people looking at them.
• 21:00
  But I was brought up loving public speaking actually.
• 21:05
  That's where I think I was like in grade school going through the competitions.
• 21:09
  I went, I won the whole thing.
• 21:11
  Like I went up all the way to the board level and really loved
• 21:14
  doing that portion of work.
• 21:15
  And in school I did the in morning announcements in high school.
• 21:19
  I then, and then really what supercharged me was I, my first ever full-time job
• 21:24
  actually was working on a cruise ship and I worked as a entertainment host.
• 21:29
  I can see it.
• 21:29
  Yeah.
• 21:30
  So I did the Trivias and the Bingos and I was on a microphone
• 21:34
  40 hours a week on a stage in front of thousands of cruise guests.
• 21:38
  And oh yeah, like I loved it.
• 21:40
  I really thrived and it taught me how to.
• 21:43
  Keep an audience captivated and and just have fun and roll with the punches.
• 21:47
  So it was it was a great training ground for me to eventually
• 21:50
  do what I'm doing today.
• 21:52
  Very cool.
• 21:53
  So what's your thought on the fact that TED talks are getting shorter?
• 21:57
  I know this is like the drama in the TED talk space.
• 22:00
  'cause I think it used to actually be 20 then it was 18 when I did it.
• 22:03
  18 minute limit and now it's, is it 15 or 12 minute?
• 22:06
  15 minutes now?
• 22:07
  I think it's like
• 22:08
  12. 12 now.
• 22:10
  12, yeah.
• 22:11
  So something like that.
• 22:12
  But it significantly shorter from where we started.
• 22:14
  Yeah, I think it's interesting because when I had my 18 minute limit in my head,
• 22:21
  I felt like I had to fill the 18 minutes.
• 22:24
  And maybe that's what they're trying to prevent.
• 22:25
  Like some of those TED talks could have been shorter and people were
• 22:29
  failing the time 'cause they felt they needed to fill the time.
• 22:31
  But I think no matter what, when you are given constraint, it's always interesting
• 22:37
  and creative to see how people.
• 22:39
  Yeah, flex their creative muscles to work around that.
• 22:41
  I think obviously you could still tell a great story in that amount
• 22:44
  of time and really powerful ideas.
• 22:45
  And there are still some of the greatest TED talks that are actually shorter.
• 22:48
  They just didn't use their full stage time.
• 22:51
  I think that it could be a positive.
• 22:52
  I'm interested to see if how it translates and if we find that there's a shift in how
• 22:58
  TED Talks are delivered because of this.
• 23:00
  But yeah, I guess it's just gonna be a wait and see.
• 23:03
  I'm curious what gets lost, because to me the obvious answer is context.
• 23:08
  Yeah,
• 23:10
  it's true.
• 23:11
  You're obviously missing out on time and you're gonna have to pick and choose how
• 23:15
  much or where to give that extra context.
• 23:17
  So it's hard to say.
• 23:18
  I think I, yeah, what would my TED talk have been?
• 23:21
  If I only had 12 minutes, what would I have had to cut out?
• 23:23
  I really love my TEDx talk.
• 23:25
  So if you wanna look it up, it's called why Audio Storytelling
• 23:28
  is the Backbone of Humanity and.
• 23:31
  The, it had a lot of elements in it.
• 23:33
  I talk about my background in radio.
• 23:35
  I talk about the rise of podcasting.
• 23:36
  I do this demonstration of a really powerful audio app that my company
• 23:41
  created and helps people capture legacies on audio stories, oral histories.
• 23:46
  So yeah, I probably would've had to cut that part.
• 23:48
  I would've had to cut that oral history part, which feels like incomplete.
• 23:53
  It feels wrong.
• 23:53
  So I don't know, it's tough.
• 23:56
  I yeah, I guess there will be pros and cons to it.
• 23:59
  That's interesting.
• 24:00
  So you also were invited to go to the TED conference on ai?
• 24:04
  Yes.
• 24:05
  Yes.
• 24:05
  Tell
• 24:06
  us about that.
• 24:06
  Okay.
• 24:07
  It was really exciting.
• 24:08
  So the head of ted, which is, that's why there's no x, the X means it's
• 24:13
  like an offshoot run somewhere locally.
• 24:15
  Ted, the actual TED runs conferences and there'll be in big.
• 24:20
  Cities all over the world.
• 24:22
  They actually do them in Vancouver, British Columbia,
• 24:25
  though they're discontinuing those, I dunno if you heard that.
• 24:27
  Next year's, the last year.
• 24:28
  Yeah.
• 24:29
  So that was So actually once that they're
• 24:30
  doing global.
• 24:31
  Yep.
• 24:32
  And actually that's what made me go I had never really paid attention
• 24:35
  to those conferences globally even.
• 24:38
  I never really looked up where exactly are they.
• 24:40
  And that's why I saw that news and I went, oh, that's a shame, but
• 24:42
  where else are they even doing them?
• 24:43
  And I just started digging in and I saw the applications were open to attend the
• 24:48
  Ted AI in Vienna, which was a new one.
• 24:51
  Yeah.
• 24:51
  And this was only their second year running it.
• 24:54
  And I just thought, oh, it's a very intentional delegation because they
• 25:00
  do, and I didn't know this about.
• 25:03
  TED conferences before I went, unlike the TEDx talks, the TED
• 25:06
  conferences have one day of talks and it's 20 talks back to back.
• 25:09
  It's like a very long day.
• 25:11
  And then the other days of the conference are, you're networking, you're doing
• 25:15
  excursions together that they pay for.
• 25:17
  That is like part of it.
• 25:19
  You're doing dinners together.
• 25:20
  It's you're brainstorming.
• 25:23
  You have solution circles where they put a problem and then people
• 25:25
  are collaborating and trying to figure out problems together.
• 25:27
  Like it's very interactive dynamic.
• 25:30
  And the audience is not just an audience.
• 25:32
  You're basically.
• 25:34
  Also speaking and sharing ideas quite extensively.
• 25:37
  And so they wanna make sure they have a stacked room and they wanna
• 25:40
  make sure they have a diverse room.
• 25:42
  And so that's why there's an application to, you can't just go.
• 25:45
  So they, I don't exactly know what the rubric was, but I
• 25:48
  was chosen and I'm very happy.
• 25:49
  I was one of 13 Canadians Yeah.
• 25:51
  To go.
• 25:52
  Yeah.
• 25:53
  Which was really exciting.
• 25:54
  And I made some, I met some incredible people.
• 25:57
  I made some incredible French which was really, I'm so glad
• 26:00
  I went and it all worked out.
• 26:02
  So yeah.
• 26:02
  So it, it's a three day event.
• 26:04
  Day one is an initial meetups and then a gala.
• 26:10
  And it was, 'cause it was in Vienna and they love balls, so they threw
• 26:13
  this huge ball and it was just a nice way to kick off in this, in
• 26:17
  the Imperial Palace, which is a historical building and quite stunning.
• 26:21
  And the whole conference actually took place there in this imperial palace.
• 26:24
  And then day two was all of those workshops.
• 26:28
  And so even one of the excursions I went on was.
• 26:31
  To have AI create a perfume for you.
• 26:34
  And so they took us to this special perfume shop.
• 26:38
  We filled out this survey about ourselves, and then there was a
• 26:41
  billion, combinations of scents that they could have put together for you.
• 26:44
  And based on how you filled out the survey, this machine gave you a s.
• 26:48
  That it thought you would like and did you And okay, so well, what it did, it
• 26:52
  gave me three to choose from and one was definitely ama, like I loved it.
• 26:57
  And one was like okay.
• 26:59
  And the third was, I definitely did not like it.
• 27:01
  So it was interesting.
• 27:02
  It was like a range.
• 27:04
  But then what they did is, and they, and I like how they did this,
• 27:07
  they said, A, with AI you have, there always has to be adjustments.
• 27:10
  Humans have to be working alongside it.
• 27:12
  And so yes, it's gonna give you your three samples and then you can tweak
• 27:16
  if you feel you need, if one is close to make it the absolute perfect scent.
• 27:20
  But I said, you know what, it really nailed it with that first one.
• 27:22
  I loved it the most.
• 27:23
  I'm just gonna print.
• 27:24
  That's gonna be my bottle.
• 27:25
  And so actually everyone got a bottle of the scents that was made for them.
• 27:28
  And I was like, what a cool experience as part of a conference, it's cool.
• 27:32
  Yeah.
• 27:32
  And now I have my own original Ted AI scent
• 27:36
  That's.
• 27:37
  I don't know anybody else right to tell that story.
• 27:40
  Very neat.
• 27:41
  So if you ever have the opportunity Yes, to go to one of these conferences,
• 27:44
  I would highly recommend it.
• 27:45
  I really enjoyed it.
• 27:47
  What did you learn from it?
• 27:48
  Yes, that was invaluable.
• 27:50
  Oh, okay.
• 27:51
  So that was all the fun stuff as far as the talks themselves.
• 27:55
  Now, in that final day, I felt like it was really interesting some of, and I
• 28:00
  think everyone took different things away, which I also found fascinating
• 28:03
  when we talked after, based on where they were at, what they were interested in.
• 28:07
  So for instance, one of the opening talks was a someone who was very technical,
• 28:12
  and this was not for me 'cause I'm just not that, and I'm like, somebody
• 28:16
  in this audience must love this.
• 28:18
  But essentially she was talking about, she was equating the scientific
• 28:24
  periodic table of elements and demonstrating how she has developed
• 28:29
  a machine learning periodic table of.
• 28:33
  Code.
• 28:34
  I don't even know.
• 28:35
  It was a periodic table of AI basically.
• 28:37
  And I was like, fascinating.
• 28:39
  And that was as far as I could even wrap my head around, and the rest
• 28:42
  of the talks were explaining it all.
• 28:44
  That's a blank like expression of my face.
• 28:46
  I'm like, whoa, great for you.
• 28:49
  I was happy for her.
• 28:50
  She was clearly a genius and that exists out there so neat.
• 28:54
  We're innovating and just to you, but I think it's interesting to
• 28:57
  even think about, we are redefining the periodic tables in science
• 29:01
  and, in relation to AI and that's being defined right now as we go.
• 29:04
  Very neat.
• 29:05
  She's doing her PhD in this, so great.
• 29:07
  So that's one end of the spectrum.
• 29:09
  And then, the complete opposite end of the spectrum was a magician who was doing
• 29:13
  magic tricks as part of his TED talk.
• 29:17
  And saying how, like he was just playing off of the idea of wonder
• 29:21
  and things that he could have made somebody feel was a magic trick.
• 29:25
  Now people are like, that's just ai.
• 29:27
  They were skeptical of some of the magic tricks he was doing online because of
• 29:31
  all the AI technology that can basically make a video of you doing anything.
• 29:35
  Yeah.
• 29:35
  It was very fun and he was, making tennis balls appear outta nowhere
• 29:39
  and really great magic tricks.
• 29:41
  And then connecting it to the idea of wonder which was like a more of
• 29:44
  a creative and fun presentation.
• 29:47
  But, when we look at the talks that were in the middle, that really challenged,
• 29:50
  the way I think about some things as I engage was number one, there
• 29:54
  was one about living with a robot.
• 29:56
  And so how, what is it gonna be like when there are physical robots in our world?
• 30:03
  And so she had a robot that she'd been living with for a year and.
• 30:08
  The robot damaged some things in her house and she was like
• 30:11
  does insurance cover this?
• 30:12
  And what, right?
• 30:14
  What's the line about The robot damaged it?
• 30:16
  Who's liable for that?
• 30:17
  And raise.
• 30:18
  And she just raised a lot of great questions.
• 30:20
  Then she's I wanted to take it on public transit with me, so it
• 30:24
  has to go through the turnstile.
• 30:25
  So my buying in a pass, is it a, or am I carrying it over?
• 30:30
  Like it's taking up a seat.
• 30:31
  So is it a, okay, so then it's so where do you draw the line?
• 30:35
  Then even with talking about it being transported and around the
• 30:41
  city, and it's like, what if she folded it up and it was in a box?
• 30:44
  Does it count then or does it only count when it's walking?
• 30:47
  He used it as a passenger in the HOV lane.
• 30:48
  There you go.
• 30:50
  But we gotta make Phil's decisions legit.
• 30:52
  Someone's gonna say that's like my assistant.
• 30:54
  And so it's.
• 30:56
  It just, Hey,
• 30:57
  It beats a blow up doll,
• 30:57
  right?
• 31:00
  Yeah.
• 31:00
  More use cases for sure.
• 31:02
  I, so I just thought, this is really interesting questions that I never
• 31:05
  really thought about and actually we have to figure out answers to pretty soon.
• 31:09
  So there's, there was that talk and the robot came out on the stage at one point.
• 31:13
  It was really neat.
• 31:14
  Oh, that's good.
• 31:15
  Yeah.
• 31:15
  So did she have to buy a plane ticket,
• 31:17
  I wonder?
• 31:18
  I don't know, but she, why was it I didn't ask her.
• 31:20
  She show, she did show how she folds them up into a box though.
• 31:23
  But it is a very big heavy box, so she's I still get asked questions
• 31:26
  anyway quite interesting the world that'll be living in soon.
• 31:29
  That is fun.
• 31:30
  The only robot I've lived with is eye robot, which is like the automatic vacuum.
• 31:34
  Yeah.
• 31:34
  Which I honestly hate because I swear it stalks me and I trip on it.
• 31:38
  Oh
• 31:38
  my God.
• 31:38
  See
• 31:39
  it terrifies my dog.
• 31:41
  I know.
• 31:41
  I've never, I never got one of those yet.
• 31:43
  I'm like, it's okay.
• 31:44
  I'm still a gate to manually vacuum.
• 31:46
  I wanted to live it.
• 31:47
  I really did because I really hate vacuuming.
• 31:49
  Yeah.
• 31:49
  I really wanted to love it, and
• 31:51
  I do not.
• 31:52
  Yeah.
• 31:52
  Fair.
• 31:55
  So that's really cool.
• 31:56
  Thank you for sharing that.
• 31:56
  There you go.
• 31:57
  And today you're actually doing a workshop.
• 31:59
  Yes.
• 31:59
  It's seven o'clock.
• 32:00
  We're recording.
• 32:01
  What time is it now?
• 32:02
  We have to actually make sure that we're getting 'em in edit here on time.
• 32:05
  It's five 30.
• 32:05
  Yeah.
• 32:06
  Good on
• 32:06
  time.
• 32:07
  Yeah.
• 32:07
  So how do your workshops fit into everything?
• 32:11
  Is it really just about taking the ideas, the thought leadership?
• 32:14
  You seem to have a new podcast, by the way.
• 32:15
  How does that all fit into what you're planning for your upcoming future?
• 32:20
  The workshops, I love giving workshops and I've been giving them definitely with the
• 32:26
  launch of the book the first time in 2018, I got a lot of requests for workshops.
• 32:30
  So I've been giving them since then very actively.
• 32:33
  And I love empowering people to overcome any gaps in their knowledge
• 32:38
  or in their and when it comes to their own self-confidence to get
• 32:41
  them to do what they wanna do.
• 32:42
  The whole thing with podcasting is such an accessible medium.
• 32:45
  And so I just want to continue to make it that and champion it.
• 32:48
  So I think I'll always be doing some sort of workshops in
• 32:50
  some capacity no matter what.
• 32:51
  But the core of them are my, now my Workshop for kids, which has come out
• 32:56
  with the, in attachment to the new book.
• 32:58
  Let's Talk Podcasting for Kids.
• 33:00
  And then the areas that people tend to wanna learn about the
• 33:02
  most are the art of interviewing.
• 33:06
  Podcast 1 0 1, which is like my, just baseline and we
• 33:09
  introduce people to the medium.
• 33:10
  And even if podcasts, I like play a bunch of clips and talk behind the
• 33:13
  scenes about the making of them.
• 33:14
  So I think it's a really good, like anybody can attend that one.
• 33:19
  I do a nuts and bolts of production where we get into the nitty
• 33:21
  gritty of the technology and the.
• 33:24
  Producer hat that you need to have on when you're making a podcast.
• 33:27
  And then I do this one, which I'm gonna be doing later tonight, which is
• 33:32
  called Podcasting for Business Growth.
• 33:34
  And so this is where we really take a business lens on podcasts
• 33:38
  and talk about how businesses can use them, some best practices,
• 33:41
  and we get into some case studies.
• 33:43
  And so this is one that I typically do with in entrepreneur groups
• 33:47
  or within organizations who are contemplating starting a podcast.
• 33:50
  So it could set them up for success and help them identify what their
• 33:54
  strategy and what their goals should be.
• 33:55
  Because especially for those kinds of podcasts, hitting number one on
• 33:59
  Apple might not actually accomplish your business goals, right?
• 34:01
  So it's thinking strategically about why are you making this show.
• 34:05
  Those are the ones that I typically do.
• 34:07
  And do they
• 34:08
  tend to be in person or do you do virtual?
• 34:11
  Both.
• 34:11
  I think that I do a lot in person, but.
• 34:15
  I have done virtual as well, especially in the pandemic, like I
• 34:18
  was still giving them all the time.
• 34:19
  And so I've adjusted some of them to yeah, to be good for the screen.
• 34:22
  And I used to give editing workshops too, but now honestly there, there's so many
• 34:25
  tools that do the edits basically for you that I haven't really been running
• 34:29
  those ones as much and I would first see that really becoming a non-issue
• 34:34
  for people to have to learn as you even said, I have an open audition.
• 34:37
  I don't think you'll have to really, you'll have enough
• 34:39
  tools to do it without Yeah.
• 34:41
  The professional high end ones.
• 34:44
  Yeah.
• 34:44
  I take a
• 34:44
  very low key approach to editing, which is basically remove filler
• 34:49
  words, add music, and that's it.
• 34:51
  That's it.
• 34:51
  And that's fine.
• 34:52
  And so many, there's so many successful podcasts that do that
• 34:55
  kind of treatment, so it makes sense.
• 34:56
  Yeah, exactly.
• 34:57
  Yeah.
• 34:57
  I did do one where the guest was just really uncomfortable
• 35:00
  and we edited line by line and
• 35:03
  I learned that I don't
• 35:03
  wanna do that.
• 35:04
  No.
• 35:04
  And I started interviewing professional speakers.
• 35:06
  There you go.
• 35:08
  Yeah.
• 35:08
  Yeah.
• 35:09
  That makes a difference for sure.
• 35:11
  And so this thought leadership podcast that I happen to
• 35:14
  come across a trailer, yes.
• 35:16
  That looks like it was just released this week.
• 35:18
  Yeah.
• 35:19
  So this is like a very soft launch, which you're on it.
• 35:22
  Yes.
• 35:23
  We, let's go.
• 35:24
  It's so I've been making podcasts for other people for a very long time,
• 35:29
  and I have hosted some, and usually in collaboration with a client or a news
• 35:32
  outlet, but this one's purely my own.
• 35:34
  So it, it's very exciting.
• 35:36
  It's about time.
• 35:37
  So it is called Let's Talk Thought Leadership, and I'm actually debuting
• 35:41
  the trailer tonight at the workshop.
• 35:43
  Oh, are you?
• 35:44
  Yes.
• 35:44
  Which is why I actually pushed it live this week.
• 35:47
  Okay.
• 35:47
  Because it's, I'm glad I looked for it.
• 35:49
  There you go.
• 35:49
  You're on it.
• 35:51
  I know.
• 35:51
  I haven't made any post.
• 35:52
  I have not said this, so if you're listening, you're getting
• 35:54
  the real first announcement.
• 35:56
  And if you ever doubt if I do my research,
• 35:58
  clearly she's on it.
• 36:01
  So I, this has been a brainchild of mine for a long time and I had recorded
• 36:05
  this trailer and I'd been sitting on it for a bit because I am in the
• 36:09
  midst of recording all my episodes and I am gonna do a an approach where
• 36:13
  I've recorded everything and then strategically released them next year.
• 36:18
  It's called Let's Talk Thought Leadership.
• 36:20
  And it's talking about thought leadership because I feel like every time I
• 36:23
  had this conversation with people are defining that word differently.
• 36:26
  But it's so buzzy and people will tend to use it for other people, but
• 36:29
  then we might be using it differently.
• 36:31
  And so I just thought, I love, and then
• 36:33
  there's the sarcastic version.
• 36:34
  Yeah.
• 36:34
  And people like hate, it's, some people have a real disdain for it, and I
• 36:38
  understand it's overused sometimes.
• 36:40
  And so we're just gonna dig in.
• 36:40
  We're putting it all on the table, let's talk about it.
• 36:42
  'cause there's not a lot of discourse about the term itself.
• 36:46
  It's just embedded itself in weird little ways everywhere.
• 36:49
  And so I really want to dig in on how people view this real.
• 36:57
  Trend of becoming a thought leader in a certain field, and what does
• 37:01
  that even mean and what does that look like and how do you pursue that?
• 37:04
  And it's like an ongoing process.
• 37:06
  And to me, like leadership is an ongoing process and so is thought leadership.
• 37:11
  And so how do we yeah, how do we just look at that, define it and talk to
• 37:14
  some folks that I have a lot of respect for, and I'm sticking to Canadians
• 37:19
  for season one, which is great.
• 37:21
  If you're looking for a LinkedIn top voice, there you go.
• 37:23
  I have thoughts on thought leadership.
• 37:25
  I just pitching myself now.
• 37:26
  Yeah.
• 37:26
  I love it.
• 37:27
  Because actually just LinkedIn Top Voice,
• 37:30
  it's huge.
• 37:31
  So how do you get that?
• 37:31
  It's huge.
• 37:32
  It's huge, but it's really interesting how people react to it
• 37:35
  really.
• 37:35
  So tell me, talk about this.
• 37:37
  I'm interested in that.
• 37:39
  Very few Canadians actually have Yes.
• 37:40
  Top voice.
• 37:41
  Yes.
• 37:41
  And so my coach Carrie Twig was a LinkedIn Top Voice.
• 37:45
  And so I for sure working with her and.
• 37:49
  I paid attention to how she behaved.
• 37:52
  On LinkedIn.
• 37:52
  On LinkedIn,
• 37:53
  yeah.
• 37:53
  And how she writes and how she conducts herself and presents herself basically.
• 37:58
  And she is a story and telling coach, and so she has that speaker
• 38:02
  background, even though she doesn't present herself as a speaker.
• 38:04
  It's, she has a very different way of being that's not exactly
• 38:09
  like everybody else on LinkedIn.
• 38:11
  Yeah, and so I've watched her since 2018.
• 38:15
  And it's funny because if anything, it just taught me to be
• 38:19
  more myself and to trust my own instincts and my own insights.
• 38:24
  And really between the podcasting, between the writing on LinkedIn,
• 38:28
  it's how do you become more yourself?
• 38:31
  That's nice.
• 38:32
  And what I find stands out really for LinkedIn is when you're actually not.
• 38:40
  Saying the same thing as everybody else.
• 38:42
  Yeah.
• 38:42
  You've got something that's unique, that's special, that's valuable.
• 38:45
  There is no rubric.
• 38:47
  Yeah.
• 38:48
  You can't buy it.
• 38:49
  Yeah.
• 38:50
  You can't influence it.
• 38:51
  There are patterns.
• 38:53
  Yeah.
• 38:54
  LinkedIn trainers.
• 38:55
  Yep.
• 38:56
  Almost never get them, although I do know too.
• 38:58
  Interesting.
• 38:59
  So it's very interesting the FOMO that generates from the people
• 39:04
  who tend to work in areas that don't receive the LinkedIn voice.
• 39:08
  So I'm part of a LinkedIn group John Experience group.
• 39:11
  He's actually in Wales.
• 39:13
  Oh, cool.
• 39:13
  In the uk.
• 39:14
  And he was teasing me today about being a, he's I need that blue badge.
• 39:17
  And I'm like, what for?
• 39:18
  He said, just because, and I'm like, but you haven't told me.
• 39:22
  Yeah.
• 39:23
  Other than the fact that you can't get it, what it's gonna do for you.
• 39:25
  Yeah.
• 39:26
  So
• 39:26
  people don't actually understand.
• 39:28
  How to use it, how it benefits you, and honestly I've actually
• 39:33
  experienced a lot of backlash really from people who are jealous.
• 39:38
  That's so about it.
• 39:39
  Sad.
• 39:40
  I'm sorry to hear that.
• 39:40
  But again
• 39:41
  it's the way that LinkedIn presents it and it's the fact that it's not clear
• 39:47
  in terms of how you've achieved it.
• 39:48
  Like the first question you asked me is, how did I get that?
• 39:51
  Not in the, what you did.
• 39:52
  'cause I can tell the buyer content.
• 39:53
  It makes sense.
• 39:54
  To me, but I was more like, I was always curious.
• 39:57
  Is it just a, do they just reach out to you?
• 39:59
  What was the actual I got
• 40:01
  an email.
• 40:01
  Yeah, the email.
• 40:02
  You, okay.
• 40:02
  That's what the literal communication method of how, that's what, so they
• 40:06
  email you being like, you've been chosen.
• 40:07
  Yeah.
• 40:08
  That's amazing.
• 40:09
  Me.
• 40:10
  And then I checked my profile and I had the
• 40:11
  back and it's on.
• 40:12
  Okay.
• 40:12
  And it's
• 40:12
  there now.
• 40:13
  You can lose it now.
• 40:14
  Oh.
• 40:15
  So they changed it.
• 40:15
  Wow.
• 40:16
  So I actually
• 40:16
  do know somebody who lost it because she actually works in internal communications.
• 40:20
  And she was always really active and then she changed jobs.
• 40:22
  And then with that new job, she stopped post it as my
• 40:25
  job
• 40:25
  and stop commenting and all of that stuff.
• 40:27
  And I, when I checked to her profile the other day, she doesn't have it anymore.
• 40:30
  Wow.
• 40:31
  And
• 40:31
  so it's how you conduct yourself and how active you are on the platform.
• 40:36
  And so if you stop,
• 40:39
  it goes away.
• 40:39
  You have the
• 40:39
  ability to lose it now.
• 40:41
  Wow.
• 40:42
  That's smart of them.
• 40:42
  It keeps people hooked.
• 40:44
  So
• 40:45
  it, it does, but the only benefit, I honestly, if you ask
• 40:49
  me what the only benefit is Yeah.
• 40:50
  Is you can add it to like profile pictures.
• 40:54
  Yeah.
• 40:54
  It, it draws the eye.
• 40:56
  Yeah.
• 40:56
  But also they give you LinkedIn premium.
• 40:59
  Oh, that's amazing.
• 41:00
  I didn't know that
• 41:01
  there, technically
• 41:02
  it's only supposed to be for a certain period of time, but if you
• 41:04
  look at my profile it's I don't know, a hundred years from now.
• 41:06
  Wow.
• 41:07
  Great.
• 41:08
  Nice perk.
• 41:09
  Yeah, there you go.
• 41:11
  Love that.
• 41:11
  Thanks for that insider.
• 41:12
  See, but this is the exact kind of thing that I think people
• 41:14
  are always curious about.
• 41:15
  They're always, and they're either out looking in or they're in and still
• 41:19
  reflecting on and learning about.
• 41:22
  So these are the kinds of conversations I hope to have more of.
• 41:25
  So there you go.
• 41:26
  So
• 41:26
  look at the external validation.
• 41:28
  Of what look, thought leadership is.
• 41:30
  Yeah.
• 41:31
  'cause that is a very interesting thing.
• 41:32
  Thinkers, you think Thinkers 50.
• 41:35
  Yep.
• 41:35
  That kind of stuff.
• 41:36
  Yep.
• 41:36
  And who considers, it's also been very interesting even to some of the initial
• 41:41
  guests I've reached out to of who even considers themself a thought leader.
• 41:45
  So I will reach out to somebody and they'll say, but I'm not a thought leader.
• 41:48
  Yeah.
• 41:49
  But it's 'cause what is, yep.
• 41:51
  And they still say here, but this is what I'm saying.
• 41:53
  Yes.
• 41:54
  Really.
• 41:54
  I'm not gonna say who because no, that's fine.
• 41:56
  Because these are some well-known names.
• 41:58
  But you know what I think it's interesting that because what are
• 42:01
  they defining thought leadership as?
• 42:03
  What are they defining thought leader as?
• 42:04
  So I always though ask Chad GPT, I think that's a good little litmus test
• 42:09
  is, and then put a name in a thought leader and just see what they say and
• 42:13
  and so that's actually, and that's what I use in the trailer script actually,
• 42:16
  is that's how I put my own name in and saw what it said and it said yes.
• 42:19
  I went, all right, at least we've got that validation.
• 42:22
  Hey, I have a Grammy award that perplexity told me that I have
• 42:26
  uhoh.
• 42:28
  So you gotta be careful with those.
• 42:29
  Okay, sedations out there.
• 42:30
  That's right.
• 42:31
  You do gotta be careful.
• 42:32
  But I think if it is gonna help somebody who is like questioning their
• 42:34
  own yes, genuine thought leadership, then I think it's a good thing.
• 42:37
  That is actually how I use AI in lots of ways.
• 42:40
  Yeah.
• 42:41
  Like I ask it a lot of questions and I ask what it knows about me and then I ask it.
• 42:47
  Confronting questions Yes.
• 42:49
  To make myself think.
• 42:50
  That's good.
• 42:52
  And there was a whole other Ted talk at today, I actually about that too,
• 42:54
  which was like, don't let these a AI agents do the thinking for you.
• 43:01
  Have them prompt you to be a better thinker.
• 43:05
  Yeah.
• 43:05
  And I thought that was a nice way to reverse, like we keep
• 43:08
  thinking about prompting them, but get them to prompt you.
• 43:10
  Yeah, no, exactly.
• 43:12
  And I do that too, although you have to be careful with sometimes the prompts
• 43:15
  that you just line, because there was one time I copied somebody's prompt
• 43:19
  and it was about if you don't want AI to suck up to you, oh, how do you
• 43:23
  challenge it to not be obsequious?
• 43:27
  Okay.
• 43:27
  And that prompt was not worded in such a way that I felt the output
• 43:33
  was like, it actually upset me.
• 43:35
  Like it was so confrontational.
• 43:37
  Oh no.
• 43:38
  And so you have to be really careful.
• 43:41
  How you teach it to behave.
• 43:42
  Oh my
• 43:42
  gosh.
• 43:43
  Yeah.
• 43:44
  It's a good warning.
• 43:45
  Yeah, exactly.
• 43:46
  So what's the difference of podcasting Canada versus podcasting
• 43:50
  in the United States, do you think?
• 43:52
  If we look at the industry, I think there's a lot of overlap,
• 43:55
  a lot of similarities, and yes, a lot of differences.
• 43:58
  I think in Canada, if you look at the market as a whole, we are behind.
• 44:02
  And that's how we tend to be with a lot of things, especially in the media industry.
• 44:06
  And that's okay.
• 44:06
  Like we know.
• 44:07
  But it is the reality.
• 44:09
  And so when and I like to actually go back to around that 2019 time,
• 44:14
  right before the pandemic, we were still we continued to see a surge
• 44:17
  in podcast listening year over year.
• 44:19
  That was the case then and now.
• 44:21
  But at that time there started to be this like acquisition frenzy where a
• 44:26
  lot of companies, specifically in the US started buying up other companies Yes.
• 44:31
  To try to become front runners in the industry.
• 44:32
  And so what happened was there was a lot of.
• 44:35
  Over investment.
• 44:37
  And now there's a little bit of a right sizing happening in the US market,
• 44:42
  specifically Canada never had that.
• 44:44
  We never over invested and therefore we were never right sizing.
• 44:47
  So actually I think the market, it as a whole in Canada is quite stable
• 44:51
  comparatively because we were a little slower and a little more risk adverse.
• 44:56
  And so now if you actually talk to podcasters who are in the us, they have
• 44:59
  a, they're in a little bit of a crisis.
• 45:02
  There's a lot of jobs being lost.
• 45:03
  There's a lot of entire departments and companies being shut down and
• 45:07
  a lot of grief, like true grief over things that people were really
• 45:11
  excited about or passionate about.
• 45:13
  And that's very interesting to see.
• 45:16
  And I wouldn't have expected it here.
• 45:17
  I was watching the American market at that time going, oh my gosh,
• 45:21
  what a, it feels like a gold rush.
• 45:23
  I wish I could be part of it, but I feel I'm on the other side of
• 45:25
  the border and I'm so far from it.
• 45:27
  So this is when like they were buying, like they Harry and Meghan.
• 45:31
  So they were buying, yeah, so it would it, like some examples were Spotify bought the
• 45:35
  rights to the Joe Rogan shows Alex Cooper and Call her daddy was getting deals.
• 45:40
  Now she's with Sirius xm, but she was with Spotify.
• 45:42
  Amazon bought Wondery, which was a narrative production house.
• 45:47
  So there was all these kinds of, but then also smaller acquisitions over technology.
• 45:51
  Anchor FM was bought by Spotify.
• 45:53
  So some of the even tech that the tools were being purchased up squad cast.
• 45:58
  Purchase DS script or the other way around d script, purchase squad cast.
• 46:02
  So you know, like these kinds of me, like things happening.
• 46:05
  Yeah.
• 46:06
  And that it was just very buzzy.
• 46:08
  It was like what's bought today?
• 46:10
  Every day was like a new acquisition.
• 46:11
  And so that all happened really quick.
• 46:15
  But now we see, like one of the news I was just referring to that's caused
• 46:19
  a lot of grief is that Amazon has shut down that Wondery department.
• 46:23
  They're not doing podcasts, but they've assigned all the podcast
• 46:26
  portfolios to the audiobook team.
• 46:28
  And like that team that was acquired is essentially gone completely.
• 46:31
  And so
• 46:32
  they've sent it over to audiobooks.
• 46:33
  Yeah.
• 46:34
  I know this is very controversial.
• 46:36
  Books
• 46:36
  and podcasts are not the same thing.
• 46:38
  Correct.
• 46:38
  So this is why people are freaking out.
• 46:40
  Oh, okay.
• 46:41
  Yeah, I glad my reaction's the same.
• 46:42
  Yeah.
• 46:43
  And but, and causing a lot of concern and sadness and this is all these things.
• 46:48
  And and also begs is a question like, why didn't they actually
• 46:52
  just take the top performers from both groups and try to more merge
• 46:54
  them rather than just shut down.
• 46:57
  They just shut down the Wondery side completely.
• 46:59
  So this was, and they were still operating under that brand.
• 47:02
  Apparently they still will, but who knows what's gonna come out from there
• 47:05
  now on the other side of that move, but with this, I think we're just in an
• 47:10
  iterative period where people are trying to figure out how the profits and laws
• 47:16
  all balance out and how, what makes sense.
• 47:18
  And so there was a lot of new money and now there's a lot of right sizing
• 47:23
  and iterations that are happening.
• 47:24
  So that's all.
• 47:25
  So I think.
• 47:26
  But because of that, we can learn from the US.
• 47:28
  'cause they took those risks, they moved faster.
• 47:30
  We've been a little more slow and take in watching from across our
• 47:36
  border and going, all right, and so what can we learn from that?
• 47:39
  Where I think Canada's truly lacking, and we haven't picked up the pace on yet, is
• 47:44
  in support for independent podcasters.
• 47:48
  Yeah.
• 47:48
  No kidding.
• 47:49
  I know everybody's just alone in their basement or library recording.
• 47:53
  And so you have all, in Canada, we have all these independents.
• 47:57
  There's lots of independent people making great shows.
• 47:59
  Successful shows, and then we have.
• 48:03
  The CB.
• 48:04
  C and Rogers has a podcast Arm and Bell has a podcast arm.
• 48:08
  Sure.
• 48:08
  So these and Canada Land, I would say is pretty big and up there as a network.
• 48:13
  Hey, banners a CBC podcast.
• 48:14
  I don't know about the others.
• 48:15
  Like these are the Yeah.
• 48:16
  So Frequency Network is with Rogers, bell has iHeart podcasts, iHeart Media.
• 48:20
  And then Chorus has Curious Cast.
• 48:22
  So these are the big players.
• 48:24
  Sure.
• 48:25
  But the what's in between, this is what's lacking.
• 48:28
  We don't really have you, maybe you could say Canada Lands in between kind of,
• 48:31
  but I would say they're pretty much on the higher end, there's nothing really.
• 48:35
  There's a couple of collectives that we've got Women in Media Sound Off Network
• 48:39
  Sonar podcast, black Canadian creators.
• 48:41
  There's some collectives emerging, but.
• 48:43
  These are grassroots, these are, some of them are being done off
• 48:46
  the side of somebody's desk.
• 48:47
  These aren't, there's nothing really bridging this gap.
• 48:49
  Whereas in the US they have very well established collectives, net full
• 48:55
  networks that are independently owned and bringing together independent
• 49:00
  producers to help for instance, like Radiotopia, where they are a collection
• 49:04
  of shows that are really well made with a localized sales hub, and they're selling
• 49:09
  and placing podcast ad podcast ads on all of these different, independent,
• 49:13
  essentially independent shows.
• 49:14
  It's a, but it's just a really well known network.
• 49:18
  We don't really have an equivalent.
• 49:20
  So you wanna make it Nola?
• 49:22
  No, but I am actually interested in asking you about the the
• 49:25
  advertising aspect of it.
• 49:26
  Yeah.
• 49:26
  Because I personally fund everything.
• 49:30
  Yeah.
• 49:31
  I'm uncomfortable with actually having ads.
• 49:36
  Yeah,
• 49:36
  because I'm worried about reputation, especially because of the topics
• 49:42
  that I tend to talk about.
• 49:43
  I'm constantly challenging the status quo.
• 49:46
  And so anybody who's placing an ad might have the expectation that I would
• 49:51
  agree with their product, that I would agree with their their ethics, their,
• 49:55
  how they behave, how their company operates, how they dedicate their assets.
• 50:00
  And I would look at all of that, and so I've chosen not
• 50:04
  to actually go down that road.
• 50:06
  Yep.
• 50:06
  I know of a podcaster in the US for example, he's sponsored by this
• 50:09
  massive of oil company and his show is all about leading from the heart.
• 50:14
  And I'm
• 50:15
  like leading from the heart, as long as you destroy the environment.
• 50:17
  Yeah.
• 50:18
  To me that's a disconnect.
• 50:19
  Yeah.
• 50:20
  I don't know how you do that.
• 50:21
  Yeah.
• 50:21
  So I don't know that much about advertising in Canada.
• 50:25
  Yeah.
• 50:25
  Because I've chosen to, to not explore that.
• 50:28
  But do you have insight on that?
• 50:30
  Yeah.
• 50:31
  And I think.
• 50:33
  W when I talk about the lack of middle ground for creators, that lack
• 50:37
  of middle ground also has and is a bit of a chicken and egg is impacted
• 50:42
  or is impacted by advertising.
• 50:45
  Because even if somebody wanted to a advertise on some Canadian
• 50:50
  podcasts, where are they going?
• 50:53
  They're either going to the big players and it's a whole different
• 50:56
  pricing scheme and you actually gotta do a bundle with probably a bunch
• 50:58
  of the other digital properties.
• 51:01
  Or you're going to an individual to say, can I put an ad on?
• 51:05
  And maybe if that person has their podcast on like a cast or a hosting site
• 51:09
  that allows people to buy ads, sure.
• 51:12
  But there's no real middle ground where we can have somebody selling ads to
• 51:18
  go on multiple independent podcasts.
• 51:20
  You have to go.
• 51:20
  And so that gap is very real.
• 51:24
  But there is, there are people wanting that someone needs to just fill this gap.
• 51:28
  So maybe someone listening can do it, but really pooling together some
• 51:31
  of the independent podcasts that are out there that are very good.
• 51:34
  There's lots, and then representing them and getting ads placed.
• 51:37
  So Sonar Network is one example of a network that is doing it well
• 51:41
  because you have yours.
• 51:42
  Exactly.
• 51:42
  My Sleep podcast with them.
• 51:44
  So this is why I could talk with knowledge with how they work.
• 51:46
  So Sonar Network does, but this is comedy and arts, so they're
• 51:50
  tailored to a certain genre.
• 51:51
  There's still so many other genres that can get representation.
• 51:55
  And I have a sleep podcast.
• 51:56
  With original music compositions done by my husband, which is amazing.
• 51:59
  Called How To Fall Asleep Fast.
• 52:01
  And that is part of the Sonar Network.
• 52:03
  And why I went with them is because they're one of the few middle ground
• 52:08
  independent collectives that do this sort of group sales pitching.
• 52:13
  And so the numbers of my podcast are pretty good, but they're
• 52:18
  really good when you pair it with three others that are pretty good.
• 52:21
  And so what they'll do is sell for all of us and do a bundle deal.
• 52:24
  And so because of that, we've had advertisers like better Help on
• 52:27
  our podcast through Sonar, and then Sonar takes a cut and we
• 52:31
  get a cut and everybody's happy.
• 52:33
  So it definitely could happen.
• 52:34
  So this is
• 52:35
  reminding me of that Pushkin.
• 52:36
  Yeah.
• 52:36
  Because
• 52:37
  that's basically how Pushkin works, right?
• 52:38
  Yeah.
• 52:39
  And see again then Pushkin is Malcolm Gladwell's and they're in the US
• 52:41
  like we don't have an equivalent.
• 52:43
  What's Pushkin in Canada?
• 52:44
  We don't have that really.
• 52:45
  No.
• 52:46
  Yeah.
• 52:46
  So this is, which is ironic since Malcolm Glad I know.
• 52:49
  Come on back, Malcolm.
• 52:51
  Like that's where there's some real gaps in our in the industry here for sure.
• 52:54
  Yeah.
• 52:55
  That's fascinating.
• 52:56
  Yeah.
• 52:56
  See, this is why I like to have people on, I could ask questions that I Yeah,
• 53:00
  that you want.
• 53:01
  There you go.
• 53:01
  You get 'em.
• 53:02
  If you're wondering it, it means other people are wondering it too, so it's good.
• 53:05
  Yeah, exactly.
• 53:06
  That's right.
• 53:07
  So I is there anything we haven't talked about that you wanna talk about?
• 53:10
  I love that you asked that.
• 53:11
  I always encourage people to ask that when I do my interview.
• 53:14
  That actually
• 53:14
  in your book.
• 53:15
  I do it all
• 53:15
  the time.
• 53:15
  Yes.
• 53:16
  That's good.
• 53:16
  I can
• 53:17
  see that.
• 53:18
  Oh I will say, since this is the first official time I'm talking about
• 53:21
  my new podcast, thanks for doing the research and bringing it up.
• 53:24
  I will encourage people to go check it out and follow the trailer.
• 53:27
  The it's, let's talk thought leadership.
• 53:29
  You might need to still type my name beside it.
• 53:31
  'cause the SE like the searchability of it is so new, might not come up.
• 53:34
  But the podcast, the episodes will start dropping next year planning for February.
• 53:38
  So
• 53:39
  I dunno what you did with your SEO but it was the first thing that came
• 53:42
  up when I searched your name today.
• 53:43
  Whoa.
• 53:45
  Okay.
• 53:46
  That's great to hear.
• 53:48
  And literally she has a transcript that comes up.
• 53:50
  It's probably just the apple transcript.
• 53:52
  Yeah.
• 53:52
  Yeah.
• 53:52
  And you've got the trailer and that's it.
• 53:54
  That's
• 53:54
  it.
• 53:54
  It's it's very new and that's why, but I found it like
• 53:57
  it's the first immediately that was listed.
• 53:58
  Great.
• 53:59
  Thanks.
• 53:59
  And so I did it speak to you?
• 54:01
  Do you feel like that's the kind of show you'd listened to?
• 54:03
  Oh yeah.
• 54:04
  Why do you think I'm asking?
• 54:06
  I wanna, I don't wanna get honest responses.
• 54:07
  I don't know.
• 54:07
  You're like, so few people have heard it Nola.
• 54:09
  Honestly, it's so new
• 54:11
  so I'm fascinated to hear what other people, how other people
• 54:15
  talk about thought leadership.
• 54:16
  Yeah.
• 54:16
  'cause
• 54:17
  I think it's a polarizing topic.
• 54:18
  I think.
• 54:19
  So that's why.
• 54:19
  And actually I did a little bit of focus grouping and I realized that,
• 54:23
  and I thought, do I change the word?
• 54:25
  But I'm like, no, but it actually just has to be that, and we have to
• 54:27
  just talk about it being polarizing.
• 54:30
  It's, yeah.
• 54:31
  And maybe somebody is actually doing the thing, like the things that I think about,
• 54:34
  but I associate with thought leadership.
• 54:35
  Maybe someone who doesn't like the word is actually still doing all the things
• 54:38
  and they just don't like the word.
• 54:39
  Yes,
• 54:39
  absolutely.
• 54:40
  So it's like
• 54:40
  how, the way to talk about that and
• 54:42
  how it, we talked about that briefly is how podcasting actually
• 54:45
  comes up in, in pop culture.
• 54:47
  Yeah.
• 54:48
  So I happen to hear a podcast earlier and they were talking about an author
• 54:53
  who didn't know how to characterize a job that one of her characters had, and her
• 54:57
  agent said, just have it be a podcaster.
• 54:59
  Murders in the building.
• 55:00
  All these oddballs, you just happen to have podcasting to fall back on.
• 55:04
  That's right.
• 55:05
  And you mentioned Sarah Jessica Parker.
• 55:07
  Yes.
• 55:07
  In the city, it's if you wanna update a T trope, you just
• 55:10
  have the person be a podcaster.
• 55:11
  Yeah.
• 55:12
  That's it.
• 55:12
  What does that actually look like in real life?
• 55:15
  Because Yeah, I can tell you I don't have a whole closet like Sarah
• 55:18
  Jessica Parkers or Selena Gomez.
• 55:22
  That's right.
• 55:22
  And it's interesting to see how it's represented in some of these shows.
• 55:26
  And how they very much glamorize it a hundred percent
• 55:28
  but there is that glamor.
• 55:30
  Yeah.
• 55:30
  Like we were talking about diary of CEO, I actually hate that show.
• 55:33
  Keep quite honest.
• 55:34
  Yeah, it's fair.
• 55:35
  Malcolm Gladwell again.
• 55:36
  Yeah.
• 55:37
  I think when he did that show with Steven Bartlett and it went on for two hours and
• 55:41
  they started talking about remote work.
• 55:43
  I
• 55:43
  think Malcolm Gladwell got tired and just actually went off about
• 55:48
  in-person work and it escalated globally and he never talked about it.
• 55:53
  Whoa.
• 55:54
  I haven't listened to this episode, so I'm gonna have to go back and hear it.
• 55:56
  Oh, listen
• 55:56
  to this episode.
• 55:57
  Ooh.
• 55:57
  Sounds it actually fiery.
• 55:58
  It was actually the first, I have a theory about in-person work and presence.
• 56:03
  And that certain people are validated by meeting in person.
• 56:08
  And certain people have that ability to actually maintain digital presence
• 56:12
  and don't need to read body language.
• 56:16
  They can listen.
• 56:17
  They can.
• 56:18
  And it's a skill that you can develop if you want to.
• 56:22
  It goes into your mental models and how the world works.
• 56:25
  Yeah.
• 56:26
  And Malcolm Gladwell, as ironic as it is, he travels all over the
• 56:31
  world to meet people, to talk to people, but he's a very person for
• 56:34
  somebody who like connects remotely.
• 56:36
  Yeah.
• 56:38
  And that podcast is where that theory started.
• 56:40
  Interesting.
• 56:42
  And that's fascinating to me because Steven Bartlett
• 56:45
  gets amazing people on there.
• 56:48
  Yep.
• 56:48
  Louis Tomlinson just had, it's the only podcast that's ever actually
• 56:52
  been released into the theaters.
• 56:53
  And today he's interviewing Kamala Harris.
• 56:56
  Yeah.
• 56:57
  How do we get that in Canada?
• 57:00
  Yeah, it's true.
• 57:01
  Some of, because he's
• 57:02
  not doing anything that can't be done in Canada.
• 57:04
  Correct.
• 57:07
  He
• 57:07
  is a
• 57:10
  entrepreneur and specifically in marketing.
• 57:13
  So you also have to recognize it's like all of his best skills at play that
• 57:17
  led to him being so successful after you listen to his earlier episodes.
• 57:21
  They're a little rough actually for him as a host.
• 57:23
  Like he had to really, he really learned on the job, but it was his marketing mind
• 57:27
  that allowed him to gain such success.
• 57:29
  And so I think it's when will Canadian talent or Canadian podcasters.
• 57:37
  Team up with a master marketer and really be able to try to have a run
• 57:41
  at it and cut through like that.
• 57:43
  I think it's possible someone's just gotta put in the blood sweat and tears.
• 57:46
  Like he did, like he really put in the hours.
• 57:49
  Yeah.
• 57:49
  Yeah.
• 57:49
  It's not like we don't have Dragon's Den
• 57:51
  So that's why if Arlene Dickinson wanted to do one of these is that's
• 57:54
  what I was thinking of, like I'd listen, you'd but she has to want,
• 57:58
  she has to do it and then put the marketing in and and do you wanna do it?
• 58:00
  It's a lot of work.
• 58:01
  So it's not for everyone I get, but I think we do have some
• 58:03
  great Canadians who could do it.
• 58:06
  But you know what, we have some great Canadians who did
• 58:07
  it, like Erica EM'S podcast.
• 58:09
  She stopped because she couldn't get sponsorship.
• 58:12
  Okay.
• 58:12
  But I will say that you have to look at the timing.
• 58:18
  You have to look at how many people were actually around and how many people were.
• 58:24
  Podcast professionals verse other kinds of professionals we'll sometimes see a
• 58:29
  bunch of radio folks who are brilliant with audio, but they never marketed a
• 58:34
  podcast trying and then really upset that they didn't get sponsorship.
• 58:39
  And it's I don't blame you.
• 58:40
  You've never actually done that before.
• 58:42
  Yeah.
• 58:43
  So you have to really have that right team around you to
• 58:47
  really make a proper run for it.
• 58:48
  Yeah.
• 58:49
  That's what I'll say.
• 58:50
  Yeah.
• 58:51
  No, it's valid and that's why I stay away from it,
• 58:53
  because
• 58:54
  that's not what I'm going for.
• 58:55
  No, you're strategy.
• 58:56
  Yeah.
• 58:57
  For me it's about the business and honestly, the ideas.
• 59:00
  Thought leadership.
• 59:01
  Yeah, there you go.
• 59:02
  And you're doing it, so congrats.
• 59:03
  Yeah.
• 59:04
  Yeah.
• 59:04
  Thank you.
• 59:05
  And thanks for having me along for the ride.
• 59:06
  It's amazing and thank you.
• 59:08
  As I said, it is so rare that anybody wants to actually come up to Keswick.
• 59:11
  I'm happy, honestly.
• 59:13
  It's great.
• 59:31
  Find yourself in.