Latest / Conservation Stories / Saving the Ogallala: Water Rights, Incentives, and the Future of Dryland Agriculture

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Saving the Ogallala: Water Rights, Incentives, and the Future of Dryland Agriculture · Conservation Stories

• 0:08
  Speaker A: You should put salt on your tortilla chips at dinner, not your field. When you're irrigating hsi, water uses sulfurous acid to neutralize bicarbonates, lower soil ph, and flush salts from the root zone. Cleaner water, healthier soil, less buildup in your lines. Producers who get their irrigation water dialed in see better nutrient uptake, improved infiltration, and reduced fertilizer costs season after season. Getting your water right is one of the highest return investments on the farm. Our specialists will work with you to design the right system for your needs. No guesswork, just a clear picture of your water chemistry and a plan that fits your operation. So is your water working for you or against you? Find out@hsiwater.com text salty. That's s a l t y s to 979-232-2528.
• 1:01
  Speaker B: Hello, friends. It's Tillery Sims here again, and welcome back to another episode of Conservation Stories. I have with us a repeat guest, Ladonna Clayton. I'm super excited that ladonna is here. Ladonna joined us earlier, and you can go back. We'll actually link that episode so you can go back and listen to it. I encourage you to do that. And ladonna is in Clovis, New Mexico, so also on the dry part of the world not far away from us. And we share a resource, don't we, ladonna?
• 1:38
  Speaker C: We do share a very important resource, yeah.
• 1:41
  Speaker B: So tell us a little bit about what you do and give. Maybe people that haven't listened to that first episode. Just a kind of crash course on the. Some. Some of the solutions you guys are working on with water there.
• 1:54
  Speaker C: Okay, thank you so much, Tillery. And thank you first and foremost, for having me back with you again to have this opportunity. I really appreciate it. It's great to see you, too, I have to say, till I miss your face. So I am working in Clovis on the very eastern side of the border, like 10 miles from Texas. So, like, bumped up against the Panhandle, basically. And we share that Ogallala aquifer, which is declining at a very rapid rate. But it is a precious resource that we must all work together to do our best to save. Lengthen the. The timeline for that aquifer because it is finite. You know, it does. Once it's empty, it's empty. So our work is about ensuring we do things that we can to make that water last as long as possible while trying to get some recharge. It takes years to get recharge, but it can be Accomplished. My work in a nutshell goes like this. We retire irrigation wells in a very specific project area. And this project area started out 11,000 acres. We're at 34,000 now, trying to work within that area to save as much of the water as we can, knowing that irrigation farming draws down about 95% of the water from the aquifer versus 5% domestic use. So we do the irrigation wells and we compensate our landowners to not irrigate any longer while helping them transition to another form of agricultural production which has primarily been dry land and enhancing their grazing operation with their cattle. We're doing that currently, but looking at other opportunities for them to expand into. What's important is that we get the wells to stop pumping as quickly as possible. We have 56 currently that are retired.
• 4:07
  Speaker B: 56, wow.
• 4:09
  Speaker C: I know. Yeah, it's 56 and we're about to add about four or five more this year we're bringing on two more producers. One literally stopped pumping without actually being under an agreement. So I have to. Wow. That's who they are though, you know, Tillery, they're like, they came in voluntarily anyway, which amazing people. They're like, yes. Twist their arm or anything. No, they stepped up and said do this.
• 4:39
  Speaker B: So you guys are in a kind of a different situation where. Than we are because, you know, let's just say you're, you're, you know, and this happens all the time in Texas. You, you say, I'm going to reserve water. I mean, I just. We're losing this water. And then the neighbor next to you figures out you're not using all your water. So they're like, oh, I'll put in two more, two more wells, you know. And so, you know, you guys are really able to see. To me, you're a good example of what happens when, you know, if you could look at the. The water rights in a county is collective. Collectively we have this water rights. And so we've got to figure out how to conserve what we have and then enforce that concern, you know, conservation of that. And you guys have done it in a way. Relieving like this incentive based idea, which is really the best approach is like how can we, how can we keep our. Do this in a way that it doesn't destroy the economy too?
• 5:45
  Speaker C: Exactly. Yes, exactly. It must be done this way. Honestly, I believe that with 100 conviction. They have worked faithfully to be agriculture producers. They provided something of absolute, you know, essential needs for people. Yes, they are the food basket, but they're also the basket that Even produces the feed for the cattle. So that food basket exists too.
• 6:16
  Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly.
• 6:19
  Speaker C: Yeah. Their crop yields speak volumes about the work that's been performed on generational lands. Yet these generational lands often have, you know, some debt still attached. There are loans that must be paid, and they must also continue to be able to feed their families and stay on the land themselves. So we've got to keep enough water on the land so that it supports them and generations to come while we help them find a way to be productive and still making an income. And in that interim, we have to compensate them. We must do that for the appraised value of the groundwater they are sacrificing. And LALA Land and Water Conservancy does that annually, without fail now for four years, and it'll be five coming June.
• 7:12
  Speaker B: I just, I, I don't know. I just think it's such an amazing model and you know, it. To be able to get people past that trans phase is, you know, is just amazing. I was looking at running, you know, some of those numbers and what it would look like to do that. And in a county in Texas, like, okay, we have this much. Let's just say we, we set on a third of our wells. We're going to turn a third of our wells off, you know, but you would also then have to, you know, have the, the will of the, the farmers there to say, okay, we're gonna, that means that we may have to change, you know, the water district rules and we may then also have to like, increase funds and fees. You know what I mean? Like, fund. Because, like, people just maybe haven't been fined like they should be, or the fines are too low and they, it's just, they just go pay them, you know, and so, I mean, there's a, there's a whole lot that goes into it. But what I see, you know, is there's more. Every year there's more will to do, to do something different. Because everyone knows, I mean, like now they, you know, I keep saying this. I say this all the time. I know people listen, get tired of me saying this, but we're gonna hit a brick wall. And the brick wall is like right there. We're gonna be going 100 miles an hour. Are we going to be going 20? And that's what I feel like you're doing is like you're just kind of saying that. We're not saying that brick wall is not there, right? We're just saying that let's, let's find a way between here, now to put the brakes on, on it with. And do it in a way that we, we don't destroy everything we have in the process. Because that's, you know, remember Robert May saying, you turned it, you turned irrigation off. And on this side of the state you have an economic disaster. And I'm like, well, exactly. But it will happen. It's going to happen. It's going to happen.
• 9:07
  Speaker C: I mean, you don't. Okay, don't turn it off. It's happening anyway, right?
• 9:10
  Speaker B: It is happening anyway.
• 9:12
  Speaker C: It is, yeah. It's happening because when you get up one day and the well is dry, you will know the well is dry.
• 9:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, I saw, I saw an article in, about a farmer in Kansas and he's like, we've got a fight to save our aquifer. But then in the same thing, he's like, you know, he's been farming for, I don't remember how many. I mean, not maybe a couple of decades, I don't know, and has known like that of his wells. Like, he's got four left. I'm like, you've watched this happen, all this. Why are you waiting until you have four left? Like, do we need to wait until we only have four left? I mean, can't we, can't we be proactive? You know, And I don't know if it's just part of human nature that, you know, it's. Until it's urgent, it's not an emergency.
• 10:03
  Speaker C: Right. And yeah, it is urgent. It's already urgent.
• 10:08
  Speaker B: I mean, I know the whole situation. And, and, but I do wonder, you know, if even just how, you know, the farming economy is right now, if this is like such a, a time, like to jump on this idea for counties to go, like, hey, how could we incentivize? Because what it would mean in a county, it would mean that they would need to put in tracking. You're tracking how much water.
• 10:33
  Speaker C: Right.
• 10:34
  Speaker B: You've got to know that, you know, because. And then you got to do that tracking and then, then you guys just, you know, it's just different for you all. For us, it would mean we have to, we have to create what we've. What we've never really done before, which is restrictions on, like, legit restrictions. So let's switch over and talk just a little bit about is it working where you are?
• 11:05
  Speaker C: Yes. I mean, the evidence, you know, I'm now three years into data, so I wanted three data points to be able to say this is working. Because if it's not Tillery, why would I do it?
• 11:20
  Speaker B: Right. Yes, exactly. Right. Yeah. Because what you'd be the government if it wasn't working, you'd keep doing it.
• 11:30
  Speaker C: Yeah. So here's, here's what I can say definitively. The majority of my wells that are enrolled in the program and the landowners are in the northwest portion of this project area. And we're seeing significant results. And as in progress of wells rising. And truly the aquifer is rebounding for the first time as of the last data I have, which is a monitoring of wells in that area. 2025, winter. So it was December and I looked at the data and made comparisons. And so in 2024, we saw some of the wells rise as little as 0.45ft to all the way up to 12.61ft. So especially in very strong areas, they rose significantly. Right. Right now they rose again in the same area this year. So now it's not just, oh, it's because you don't have the hydraulic, you know, draw down the wells are off. Because when you first turn them off, it just, there's that this cone, they call it the cone of depression, where the water starts just filling that in, no longer drawing the water so strongly from. So you have to account for that. But now this year it's continuing to rise. And two years later, those rises are now significant to me because they're in the same wells. The same wells are rising again. And those, those wells that are not enrolled are not, except for those in close proximity to these agricultural producers, and they're rising. So we rises, right?
• 13:15
  Speaker B: And see, that's one of the strategies I've thought about is if you take a county and you identify like what you guys have done and said, okay, we're going to meter all the wells, right? We're going to really know how much water we have everywhere. And then we're going to pick strategic wells that we're going to leave on. Because for us it's like if you, you just think, I mean, we're so much infrastructure, so if you don't grow cotton, you. You don't grow cotton for 10 years. And then all of a sudden, I mean, you've got all this waters come back and people are like, oh, we could grow cotton again. Well, you don't have infrastructure on a gin anymore, you know, and so like, how do you strategically. And that. Because that's what I'm curious about. If you could take a single county, strategically turn off water, and what would happen would, would you're where you're keeping water on and limiting but still limiting that. Like would you see that increase like you guys are seeing?
• 14:21
  Speaker C: Well, I think you will see some increase like we're seeing in surrounding wells where the water's not turned off or where you got dry land. Because we've had some dry land wells that are showing increases in their wells, they irrigators at all. But would you see my data says you have. It's going to be in the major project area where the wells are retired that you see the increase. Now how could you do that differently doing it across the county? It's like you said, you could do them in this, you could, you could sporadically do them across a particular identified area and you'll still see improvement because of those who are not irrigating, those who continue to irrigate. There's still going to be some help to the awkward and keeping it right.
• 15:17
  Speaker B: Right. And finding out, you know, figuring out how to do all of that like in a, in a fair way. Because I just, I think it's interesting though because you're the people that are not participating, the neighbors that are not participating, they're benefiting from. Are they using extra water because there's extra water there?
• 15:42
  Speaker C: Well, no, my area is really interesting because mine's a semi contiguous well filled where everyone in this one area has retired their irrigation wells. So aquifer groundwater moves very, very slowly moves southeast and in that direction. But it's like 1 mile takes 15 years for that aquifer to move in this paleo channel. So you can imagine to see that bump. But yeah, to some degree if they were close to each other and they could draw the water of someone else, they could actually.
• 16:19
  Speaker B: Let's see, that's what I wonder is like because I feel like if you don't in implement you know, some kind of restriction on what the neighbors can do, then you know, it wouldn't take. But just you know, one, one, one farmer that owns a whole lot of, whole lot of land. You know what I mean? To be like, hey, this is great for me, you know.
• 16:45
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 16:46
  Speaker B: And, and, and we're neg like then it makes the, the impact is not nearly as. It's negligible because someone else is using the water that we could have conserved.
• 16:58
  Speaker C: Right. We're not finding that we're losing where we've conserved. We really have conserved. That water remains conserved. Okay, but you're.
• 17:08
  Speaker B: Because you're in a big enough area. 36.
• 17:11
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 17:11
  Speaker B: Did you say 36,000?
• 17:12
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 17:13
  Speaker B: That's what you're going after.
• 17:14
  Speaker C: Project area northwest Area is totally not irrigating. You know, another way you can, is you could have approach it differently. You could say, hey, how about if everybody just reduces by this percent? Are you still. Yes, you will be. How about if you considered another option? What if you said, hey, you get to irrigate during this time, then can you stop irrigating just this long and then the next neighbor irrigates, you can just move it across. Or could you, you could say, hey, let's all agree to only irrigate this many crop circles in this, you know, area anymore. You could.
• 17:58
  Speaker B: Right, right.
• 18:00
  Speaker C: Still, no matter what, reduction will make a difference if you can collectively reduce.
• 18:08
  Speaker B: But you have to, you've got to offset that income.
• 18:11
  Speaker C: Yes, you must do that with. You must absolutely do that.
• 18:16
  Speaker B: Well, and I think, you know, the thing about it now, even like offsetting that income, I mean, like, that may be better bet than farming.
• 18:24
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 18:25
  Speaker B: You know, with the way things are right now, like, you might be better off, like if you could retire that and get, you know, so much an acre. You know what I mean? Like, you know.
• 18:37
  Speaker C: Right. No, you, you could. And there's, there's just so many possibilities we're discovering especially as we're looking into conservation easements based on just the groundwater. But people don't often like conservationies. They don't like to talk about them. And yet, you know, I, I could, I could go into a whole conversation about the positive aspects that it brings to our landowners. And they're all in 100% because another, another wave of what we're doing is 80% of the water is conserved in perpetuity forever. But they hold on to 20% for the purpose of selling it, if needed to the municipality to, to support their water supply so that we survive. You know, there's that piece that's important too. Within the east, the only restriction is the groundwater. They can still grow dry land crops, they can still graze cattle. They could bring on pollinators, they could bring on hunting. They could bring, I mean, there are so many opportunities still to stay productive.
• 19:44
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's the thing, is as commodity crops become less and less, you know, profitable year after year, it's, you know, what are other things that, that can become that, that are profitable or, you know, now you may have to, instead of like focusing on, my income's coming in from one or two commodities now, my income off this land is going to have to come through four or five different avenues. And part of that could be a water easement.
• 20:11
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 20:13
  Speaker B: And Then you may wind up like, well, water easements. I'm putting it back in grass. I'm putting, you know, sheep out there. And maybe I'm going to do, you know, also some, some solar out there with my cattle and you know, like, provide some shade and you know, like, then maybe I'm going to do like you were saying, like, do some kind of. Well, if you can do. Problem with doing like any kind of stacking with the government programs is it just there's so much regulation that goes along with it, you know what I mean? So like CRP and then you can't graze your cow. It doesn't make sense. But I think, I don't know how you feel about this, but like, are you seeing corporate interest in participating in some of these, what I, I call that water offset credits? I don't know what, you know, but like where a company might be using a whole lot of water upstream and they want to save water downstream. And so if a farmer will turn their water off, they'll pay you for so much per gallon that you don't use and to offset the water that they're using.
• 21:21
  Speaker C: I am hearing that interest is being discussed more frequently now, especially because as a state, you know, the, the Rio Grande is definitely suffering from upper to middle to lower. Those conversations have to be held. What are we going to do and how does corporate get involved? And, and on the other side of corporate, it's like, hey, we would, we would pay $50 an acre just to come in and run some, some cats, calves, cattle to just help bring up grasslands. And also it benefits us because we can train new farmers, new, you know, there are all kinds of out ide. Bring some income. But I like that corporate side of thinking water markets are out there and they're definitely, how can we best do this so that we remain water resilient in all areas.
• 22:20
  Speaker B: Right, right. And some of those, you know, investments can be in, you know, because even now if you think, well, we'll just help a farmer, you know, convert to grassland for cattle, my goodness, cattle are expensive.
• 22:31
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 22:32
  Speaker B: You know, that's a huge, you know, that, that'd be a huge undertaking, you know what I mean, to like put a third of your landing cattle. You get the money for that and, and you don't get the r. I mean, and it's not like, oh, I'm going to take them to market in four months.
• 22:46
  Speaker C: No, it's not like that at all.
• 22:47
  Speaker B: It is not like that. It's going to take a while. Yeah, but I, I do think that like that those, those type of ideas to me have, have the most. I don't know, I think that there would be the most attractive to farmers because they aren't that weird. They aren't that you're not connected to the government.
• 23:09
  Speaker C: Right.
• 23:10
  Speaker B: And you're doing something that's transitional, you know, and so you can say, you know, where even if they're saying like, I'm going to turn, turn my water for 10 years, you know, and you agree to pay me for 10 years while I make this trans transition, because that's probably what it's gonna take. You know what I mean? Like, I, I think there's some really great opportunities and I think that so often, like our area gets overlooked because nobody realizes how much farmland is out here.
• 23:41
  Speaker C: Oh yeah, you have a lot, you see. And I'm, I feel so much like utilary because Curry county is the number one agriculture producing county in the entire state.
• 23:52
  Speaker B: Oh, wow.
• 23:53
  Speaker C: Yeah. So we rely on agriculture production. We have significant percentages, like private lands, about 87%. So that's a, that's a high number of private land. Or it's 80. That was too high.
• 24:07
  Speaker B: So, so how, how did, how has. Because I know you have a lot of dairies there as well. And a lot of that irrigation goes towards the feed.
• 24:18
  Speaker C: Right.
• 24:18
  Speaker B: That's being grown for those dairies. And do you feel like that what you guys are doing will actually kind of increase the longevity of, of some of that water that in those outlying areas where people maybe are. They're still growing?
• 24:34
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 24:35
  Speaker B: That you're seeing some of those neighboring wells go up.
• 24:38
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I'm. I believe it. It is doing that actually, because I have two dairies in close proximity, actually three dairies in close proximity of my project area. Two reside within my project area. They're still functioning and one is outside of it, but right close to my military installation. And they're doing, they're still succeeding. Now, are they growing feed at the level they once did? No, absolutely not. No one is. What they're doing is shipping in, trucking in other areas. But people are learning to adapt to what crops can I grow that take very little water, but I can still grow feed? And we're seeing success there as well.
• 25:22
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 25:23
  Speaker C: To make that transition, you got to think differently. You got to keep your mind really open. I think that I can't emphasize that enough. You and I both know the possibilities are endless and that we are a resilient people. Right.
• 25:40
  Speaker B: Right.
• 25:41
  Speaker C: When we meet with challenges and Adversity, we tend to rise to them and find solutions and be overcomers. That's where we find ourselves today in this landscape. We can do this work. We just have to put every possible idea on the table, discuss them, consider them. What are the challenges? What are the benefits? What are the costs? And can we move in a way that keeps farmers and ranchers whole as well as our communities and we work together collectively towards that goal?
• 26:15
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And you know, I think how to, how do you. How to start a project like you guys, you guys are funded through really the Department of Defense. A lot of that money is coming from there. And you know, and even I know that, you know that that's called a reppy. That that grant is called a reppy. And I know we've looked at like there's, there's a. The base that's here that the
• 26:48
  Speaker C: right.
• 26:48
  Speaker B: You have National Guard. Yes. So. And, and I'm like in, in the county that Terry county that I'm from, they have an old base. Like it's, it was there for, I mean, the National Guard, right. You know, that was there for years, decades and decades and decades, you know, and now it's being used for like a civic. There's a business that owns it. But I, I was in there the other day and I thought a reppy. I wonder if this would qualify for a repi. I mean, I think that's, that's the thing that I've loved about being around you and, and like you've just been so creative in finding these ways to, to meet these, meet the challenges. And I love. Because it's working.
• 27:36
  Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. And it's, you know, networking partnerships critical to this model, critical to making progress. You have to all work together and everybody does their part. So it's not just one. Although I will say repi. Department of Defense has been a big, the big game changer. Opened the door and funded the water right lease agreement solely. Well, not solely the state of New Mexico, also state. And makes that 50. 50 cost share. That's really important. But at the same time, I'm going to say this, Tillery, while I have an opportunity. I just learned that the Voluntary Groundwater conservation Act of 2023 is back on the table again. And they're. Is it diligently to get it in the farm bill now? Is that going to be a game changer? You betcha.
• 28:27
  Speaker B: You bet it would. You bet it would be.
• 28:30
  Speaker C: So.
• 28:31
  Speaker B: Oh my goodness, that would be amazing. So do. Or is it, Is it the same I know that it was Colorado. Moran. Was it Moran? Senator Moran? Yes.
• 28:45
  Speaker C: And it's been it out of Colorado and then Senator Heinet, New Mexico. And I'm going to be in a meeting next week with a team again led by Sarah Palmer from the open open lands to discuss what do we need to do to get it across the finish line. And everybody's working really hard. So if, if I can put a plug in for. Hey, how about the panhandle gets in there and supports this?
• 29:11
  Speaker B: No, no, absolutely. Please. And, and I will tell you that I think that the, that there I've got some, I've been working on the, the groundwater like a subcommittee for the advisory board for the Texas Water Development Board. And my gosh. Yeah, we have some interest. I mean I had somebody actually ask me about that and so I'd love to, to maybe be connected there and, and actually bring some other folks to the table.
• 29:42
  Speaker C: Okay, great.
• 29:44
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 29:45
  Speaker C: We're going to revisit the language. We're going to talk about, you know, what we might need to put in, do differently and then I will, I can keep you in the communication and send you updates, information, tell her that's where we are. Here's how you can help.
• 30:01
  Speaker B: Perfect. That'd be great. And, and so for just for listeners to know that these are. It's basically a CRP for water.
• 30:08
  Speaker C: Right?
• 30:09
  Speaker B: That's what's therapy for water. It is. And, and it's not this, you know we already have something like if you don't have any will we'll pay you piddling to, you know. No, it's not that. It's not that worthless. What we have is worthless. You know, retire your. Well, no, this is much, much better. This would be much, much better. And, and like super great idea to even, you know, if we like heading into legislation for Texas if we're able to say let's do a 5050 cost share on this thing. So that. Or like then however much the feds are giving, let's let the state match that in order to prevent. Because what if there it's not, you know, enough to really prevent that and to help with that transition, you know. But to me you get state, you get federal, then you get private dollars and then you have a really good incentive.
• 31:02
  Speaker C: You do, you do and you have a win win for everybody involved. And really, I'm just going to say it Tillery. The state has to step up and do their part. It is the state's problem too. We were all linked together and I know, Texas, you're doing a lot over there that I admire. I just hope that too, when it comes to something like this, that you get, let's say 50% from the feds, maybe through the farm bill, that the state will step up and go. We'll be the other 50 match for that.
• 31:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's great. Oh my goodness, that is such great. I'm super excited about that. I'm so glad. I've met with Moran staff a couple of different times to talk about it and, and I, I really love that idea. And so we'll put some stuff up on also on the website about that. We might need to start like a, a web page on ideas, you know, like, just like resources that counties can go to, to go like here's things other counties, here's things other places are doing that are working. These things are working.
• 32:04
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 32:04
  Speaker B: And, and they're working. They're fixing the water. But also the farmers are happy with what's happening.
• 32:11
  Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. My farmers are very happy. Ask me if a single one has decided to step out of the contract for a water right lease agreement. The answer is no. And we're going into year five with. That's the second extension of a three year contract. And they're like, no, I'm all in. Ladonna, I'm still in.
• 32:30
  Speaker B: I love that.
• 32:31
  Speaker C: Like, yeah, can, can we keep doing this? And they're all in. They all applied for conservation easements except for one out of ten. Really? Yes. That's how excited they are and wanting to move forward and how, how interesting.
• 32:45
  Speaker B: So they went ahead and put a conservation easement on their land.
• 32:49
  Speaker C: Yeah. They're going to put a conservation easement on their land. Yes. To put 80% of the water, which they still own. That's the beauty of it, that 100 of the water remains in there.
• 33:00
  Speaker B: So, but you're talking about, when you're talking about the conservation easement, you're not talking about an easement on their land, you're talking about the easement on the water.
• 33:06
  Speaker C: Well, this, in this case, it's an easement on the land because NRCS doesn't currently recognize.
• 33:13
  Speaker B: Oh, that's right. Okay. Yeah, Right, right, right. Yeah.
• 33:16
  Speaker C: So that's my current battle and that's why again, I love the Voluntary Groundwater Conservation act because it does groundwater conservation.
• 33:26
  Speaker B: Right, so you're saying that your producers are so happy with their groundwater conservation, that Yarda, that you've done your easements, that they're actually going and putting their land.
• 33:37
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 33:38
  Speaker B: In the easement yeah.
• 33:39
  Speaker C: That's how much they believe in what they're doing.
• 33:44
  Speaker B: Is that something you would have anticipated would happen?
• 33:47
  Speaker C: No.
• 33:48
  Speaker B: Yeah. I was like, I can't fathom the care. The. The culture is not that much different. I mean, there's some differences, but there can't be that love of. I mean. Yeah, people here don't like easements either, you know. Wow, that's so exciting. Well, you know, and I do wonder sometimes when you. When you do something and. And what they're really doing is they're doing something, you've incentivized them to do something that's good for everyone. Right. And they're doing something. And then when you see results from that, that has to be completely, like, energizing.
• 34:24
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 34:25
  Speaker B: To be like, what we're doing is working. We're doing. We're doing some good. And then that has to be, like, the thing that helps to motivate because, you know, moving into land conservation easement is. That's a big choice to make, and this must be very impactful to them to be able to. Wow. That's amazing. I love that story. What an amazing story.
• 34:51
  Speaker C: Well, I just. All I can say is they're like my heroes, each and every one of them. But I honestly did not believe when we started that they would go into these easements like this. And I was working so hard to get a groundwater conservation easement recognized with just putting that groundwater in. We couldn't get that done yet. And so they're still like, no. Ladonna, I'm going in to a land conservation easement which includes this groundwater.
• 35:19
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And. And you're getting. They get. They're getting paid. Like, I watered the. I know here there was like an 80%. If it was in maturity, it was like 80% of the value of the land. And did they get paid 80% of the value of the water as well in that you guys are in. Because they're connected. They're.
• 35:39
  Speaker C: Yeah. Well, it's included. The water is just included in appraised value of. Which upped the value considerably. Because, you know, most conservation easements under NRCS are about 50%.
• 35:54
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 35:55
  Speaker C: Of the value of the land, but right now have been about 71% because of the groundwater on the land and bringing it up and recognizing its value. I'd love to get to 80%. Like you mentioned, these easements are coming in at a really high appraised value. And that also really energized them to say, you mean it's going to pay that yes.
• 36:19
  Speaker B: So are they. Are they then still getting paid by you and by the easement? Are they switching over into this easement?
• 36:26
  Speaker C: They will switch over. Easement closes. They. The easement payout. And we don't continue with the water Right. Lease anymore.
• 36:34
  Speaker B: That's amazing. That is. It's amazing. What a great deal. Ladonna, thank you so much. Thank you, Tillery and I. I look forward to seeing some information on that, the policy stuff, and I will make all those connections and everything, because I would love to see that. I'd love to see that pass. It would be fabulous. And especially right now in Texas while we're gearing up to, you know, put ideas, propose ideas to our legislature about what they need to be doing for water and so be great to be able to say, hey, you know, this is what we think you should do.
• 37:11
  Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. I agree with.
• 37:14
  Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you so much, friends. Thanks for joining us again. Thank you, Hillary. And yes, I just. Every time. It's always a great conversation with you. Ladonna. I appreciate you being here and I hope that you guys have found. Ladonna, may I feel like some. I totally forgot there was, like, people listening in because I hope. I hope we didn't go over people's heads or whatever, like. But I. I hope that people enjoyed this. And if you did, we hope that you will get on our Facebook page and learn more and learn more on our website, sarah-conservation.com which we now have a donate button. So, people, if you want to donate a couple of bucks to. For the production cost and the things that go on behind the scenes, we'd appreciate it. If not, that's fine. Listen in. We are grateful for all the. All the listens and all the likes and everything. Thank you very much and bye, ladonna.
• 38:09
  Speaker C: Bye, Tillery. Take care.