Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #511 Ever wondered how divine love can transform your life and relationships? Even challenges like pornography addiction and much more

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#511 Ever wondered how divine love can transform your life and relationships? Even challenges like pornography addiction and much more · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Become who you Are podcast, a production of the John Paul II Renewal Center.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Jack Rigg, your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: St Catherine of Siena said that if you become who you are, that you would literally set the world on fire.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And St Athanasius, an early church father and a doctor of the church, said the son of God became man so that we might become God.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You know I make a wild guess at this, but I bet you, most of us, are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yet Saint John Paul II said there's an echo of the story of this divine life that we're created for, inscribed in each human heart, in your human heart, and if you put on the proper lens if I put on the proper lens we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that aha moment.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: See, that's the genus of St John Paul II's theology of the body.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Piper, all the way from Pennsylvania.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Linda, good to be with you.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Nice to be with you, Jack.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: How are things going?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Good, we took a little break.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: We're back and we're just barely making it, so hopefully we don't I'm not traveling too much, you're not traveling too much, and we get to get a couple of these sessions.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: And I think today it's really powerful.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: It's called the reality of the gift, the meaning of grace.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: John Paul presented this on September 29th, I think, 1982.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: It's audience number 95.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And so we're making our way through men and women.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: He created them, a theology of the body.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I we want to talk about the power here, the power of these analogies that john paul brings up.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: He he's referring here to ephesians 5, which he does so much.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: He calls it the summa of the entire teaching on theology of the body.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Actually, I think it's the summa of the entire teaching on theology of the body.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Actually, I think it's the summa of the whole Bible.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Really, you know, christopher West would say it's stuck in my mind, linda God wants to marry us.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I can sum up the whole Bible in five words God wants to marry us.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: It starts in the beginning, right with the marriage of.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Adam and Eve.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: It ends in the book of Revelation with Christ and the church, and this is the bookends that John Paul is referring to here.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I'll read this from Ephesians Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: So he's linking here right away the analogy between spousal love of a man and a woman and the spousal love of Christ for the church's bride.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: It is this love that's linked together and it was bereshit, you know that Hebrew word for in the beginning and it's linked together that we were always supposed to be a reflection of Trinitarian love.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: But the only way to express that, linda, is to be filled with divine life and love and then to express that in the world.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: That's really what this whole thing is about.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: The original sin delinked that.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: And the last thing I'll say before I throw it back you know, these young people that we meet are so, they're so addicted to so many things, right, their phones and et cetera, et cetera.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: But one of the scourges really is pornography, and you know we keep hearing pornography doesn't hurt anybody, and what's wrong with watching, you know, pornography and then masturbating, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Well, because it's, it's, it's a total implosion of the person, it's the opposite of love right, it's the opposite of love, right.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: It's the opposite of love.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: So what we want to hopefully bring out today and talk about is the power, the power of this analogy, which is efficacious, which is real, to take this power that the branch has to go back into the vine so that we can become persons of love again.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: And the only way to do this is to believe in the Redeemer, to believe that the Redeemer, the bridegroom, really came back to get his bride to take us into the story.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Jack, you struck in those few minutes.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: You hit so many really key points.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking a couple of things.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: When you talk about the problem with pornography and many other distortions in our cultures, that implosion of the person, you know, if our listeners get the understanding here that it's that total.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: You know, turning inward to self, and what we have been talking about, that John Paul brings out so much in Theology of the Body, is that God's plan for us is just the opposite, that to go out and be total gift of self.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So we see that the further we get away from that idea, the more we have turned it inwards.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And we see the result of that.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: You know, pornography being one of the huge ones in our culture today.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, stop and pause there for a second.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I'd like to take a deep breath here because what you said is so powerful.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: We call God Father because he initiates the gift he's pouring, his gift of self, his self, his inner life, his hope being into us, into his creation, you know, and in that Genesis, chapter 2, verse 7, right, he blows into us why he actually takes this clay and blows the essence of who he is.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: This makes us different than all the rest of creation, right, and that difference is to be filled with divine life and love.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: That's the difference.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Right, and the Pope brings that out so nicely in where we are here, in 95, that the whole first dimension of love, he says, is that fatherly dimension, that God as father initiates not only our creation, but that love to fill us with love.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: What I was struck by as I was reading this is the way he also tells us that we had the hints of this very strongly, not only in Genesis, as you quoted, but throughout the Old Testament, particularly in Isaiah, and there was a Isaiah 54, where it says For your creator is your husband, lord of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: He is called.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: And here he tells us enter Christ as the Holy One of Israel, as our redeemer.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: And then St Paul brilliantly takes that and explains it for us in terms of Christ as redeemer giving himself to the church, and the Pope says that in essence is the work of salvation.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And so we see this kind of completion of what has been going on, you know, for a very long time.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And then our goal you and I often talk about how do we make that real in our lives?
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: You does that mean to us, as Christ is bridegroom and we, the church, are bride.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: It gets very exciting with this concept of Christ wants to marry us.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Let's think about what that means.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, and so you think about a community.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Right, a church is a community, just like what John Paul expresses here.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: In the Old Testament, it was Israel, the people, israel.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: In the New Testament, as St Paul brings out, it's the church.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Well, this is the people of God.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: In both cases it's the people of God, so this is a communal thing.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Points out, though, that it's spousal language, and the spousal language is a personal thing between two people, right, between a man and a woman in marriage.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: So the power of the language says, yes, god creates and he brings his people together, but he also woos us individually as a spouse, and this is why this analogy is so important, because this is also a personal I.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: He woos I, right Me, he woos Linda, and everybody knows this.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: That's been into this story, that God is going to woo you a little different than the next person.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: You know, in essence, it's love, but he surprises us.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: You know he's a romantic.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: You know St Augustine would talk about this.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: God, he'll romance you if you allow him to.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: He's going to come to you individually.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Now we have to then turn right.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: This is the second original experience.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Then is the first one's original solitude right?
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: This is God blowing into us, wooing us Now, original unity, which John Paul would say.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Now, you know, this is where man, you know, is put into a trance, basically, and Eve is taken from his side.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Right, it's not good that man should be alone.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: Well, this builds up the community again.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: This is the essence of the family, but also of the culture and then of a country.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: So this is the essence of this people of God.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: So I'm being wooed by God, but then even myself, I don't stay there If I don't expand out into, possibly, marriage, but certainly into this people of God.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: ultimately right, but yet it's a personal thing, and this is the problem with pornography.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: If you want to get out of pornography, you want to get out of these addictions.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: You have to understand this is a personal thing.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: You have to allow the Redeemer to love you, to overcome your sins and death.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And if you don't get that and if you don't believe that and if you don't really open yourself to that, then you're going to have one addiction after another.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: You might get over one, but you're going to be trying to fill yourself with something else, right?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Right, right and again this filling of self idea when God is wooing us individually, when God is wooing us individually, what is supposed to happen to us?
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: What's our response?
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: It's that receptivity.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: So we do have a choice we can be receptive to that outpouring of love or we can reject it.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: It's really kind of that simple and, I'm sure, on a scale I can maybe sometimes, maybe not until you know until I really decide.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm doing here, so it made me think too.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: So if we back up a little bit from the analogy of marriage and go into the dating phase, if you will, or the wooing a young man might have for a woman that he thinks perhaps, you know, this is the one I might want to spend my life with, you know, so she would have that same choice.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: She can accept, you know, and be open to the attempts that he is making to attract her and to get to know her or she.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Can, you know, just slam it down and you see that, okay, the whole analogy makes so much sense in our day-to-day real life experiences that if we just think it through a little bit more, it makes complete sense.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: On what we're looking at here with how should I live my life, when I first was studying Theology of the Body and Christopher West was bringing out I find out who am I and how do I live my life, I thought, whoa, that's a pretty broad topic and it seemed almost overwhelming how it would fit into the daily grind of things, to the real life experiences.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: And yet it plugs right in, you know, when we think about our role, with the receptivity and how does it come from God?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: It's through that participation, through grace.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: So grace is the participation, that ruah that he blows back into us.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: You know, st John of the Cross would talk about wisdom, linda, and he talked about, first of all, you have to become a person of love would talk about wisdom, linda, and he talked about, first of all, you have to become a person of love.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: You have to do all these things that we're talking about.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: You have to become a gift to others, right, you have to will the good of another.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Then he says, in order to do that over time, you have to sit in silence.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: So, number two you have to sit in silence if you want wisdom.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: And what does that mean?
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: That means sitting with God if you want wisdom.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: And what does that mean?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: That means sitting with God, sitting in prayer, sitting with God, just allowing him to shower you with this grace and be an open, like you said, be receptive to it, but just wait there, allow him to love you.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: And then, third is mortifications, mortifications and fasting.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And this gets back to our pornography thing.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Mortifications is like fasting you have to detach from the finite.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: In other words, if I'm sitting there in silence, I have to detach from trying to fill myself up with porn and food and alcohol.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, our sexuality is beautiful.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Food I was a former chef can be incredible.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Beautiful wines, right Time with family, friends, et cetera, right Nature.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: But these things are still temporal.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: They're all signs.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: They're all sacramental signs, reflections of who God is and when you sit in silence and you don't try to fill yourself, but you look around, even if you're out in nature, and you allow the beauty to lift you, to lift you up, and that's what our sexuality should be doing.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Linda, when I think about looking at porn or whatever that is, I should know that this is a twisted and distorted.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: They're taking the power, the creative power.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: The most powerful thing within the human being is the Imago Dei right, created in the image and likeness of God.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: If I allow Satan to twist and distort that, that's a powerful thing that's going to happen to me.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: That's why it's so easy to become addicted to things like pornography and things, because this is the essence.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: You're screwing with Eros, the power, right, but because it's disconnected from the vine, satan doesn't have his own clay right.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: He can only take what God created good, twist and distort it and this can really drive you down.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: So the key is not to push it down.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: The key is not to indulge.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: The key is to understand that Christ came to redeem that power, the power you don't want to get rid of, the power you want to open to the person who gave it to you and find your freedom there.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Not easy to do, but that's the essence.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: So wonderful to think about sitting in silence.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Look how noisy our culture is.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: We don't do it right.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I wonder where addicts.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, right there you can see that the whole process has been attacked and distorted.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Sitting with God in that silence I can't think of a better way than in adoration and one of the books I have that has prayers and meditations and stuff gave the image of you know Jesus as son.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Of the books I have that has prayers and meditations and stuff gave the image of you know Jesus as son of the father.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: But little play on the word son, also S-U-N.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: It's like bathing in the sun, you know, and taking that in and the analogy is so great.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: We were just at the Jersey Shore yesterday.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: You know, taking in the sun and the warmth and the feeling of that, and so sitting in adoration, it's like Jesus, you know what.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: You're here, I need to listen to you, you know.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: So the silence factor and then just taking it all in is a way of participating in that.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: But, boy, when you get to the mortification is a way of participating in that, but boy, when you get to the mortification, detaching from the finite is a good way of thinking about it, and to me, just the concept of the threefold concupiscence comes right in, because those are all the things that we continue to be drawn to like a magnet, you know.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: So we can see how difficult it is for us and yet how that's the key we have to really let go of those things.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Well, that's why a prayer and fasting fasting along with prayer is repeated in the Bible.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Right Jesus spoke about it often.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: And so prayer and fasting I remember they were trying to cure a young person and they couldn't do it and they couldn't drive away a demon, I think, out of what they thought was a demon at least.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: And Jesus said that's because this one will take prayer and fasting in order to do that.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: There's a power there because it's a detaching, it's a total opening and being able to open up and say Jesus, I only rely on you.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I think that's why fasting from food is even so good, you know and I try to do that on a fairly regular basis.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Right, just black coffee and water, linda, because it's just a way to detach from everything you know and know that you can survive a day or two or three without that you know.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: The last thing I'm thinking about is, you know, christ on the cross.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Who is this bridegroom who totally pours himself out?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: This is what a gift of self is.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: I gave myself freely, totally, faithfully and fruitfully to you, and always, that image, right, of how far will he go?
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: That image of the lance that pierces the heart and finally, at the end, right, what has he got left?
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Boom and it goes right into his heart and pours out water and blood, and this is the water of baptism and confession, reconciliation, to bring us back into the story and free us from original sin.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: But yet the threefold concupiscence that you say is still there, which is true.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: We still have this drawing us into really evil and selfishness.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: And then we have the Eucharist, the blood, so that Christ can continue to fill us all the way through time.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: He's extended this through time.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: How did he do that?
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Through the mass, through the Eucharist right, right.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: So we have the remedy in all of that, and then you know it's not that we love God, but that he loved us first.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: So it's really it's kind of like the ball is in our court right that we have to find a way to, in silence, examine our life and our own hearts.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: You know, the line of good and evil passes through our own hearts and without thinking through that and saying you know what am I doing here?
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: in any aspect.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: When you were talking earlier, you know about food and and those things you know, mortification, detachment from it, they're all temporal things.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Think about how, if we don't distort it, how we can enjoy a glass of wine or really well-made beer or whatever.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: We can enjoy it.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: There's beauty there and there's nothing wrong with it, you know.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: But every time if the distortion it's in that feeling of myself, right, not just one glass or maybe two, but three, four, five and so on, and so in every case food is the same thing, you know, enjoying any dish that's wonderfully made, but you just stop at a certain point, right?
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: So once again, I'm seeing how we're taking kind of theological and maybe brain thoughts here into the real world, real life, every decision we make day by day, every choice that we make, and the sacraments being the remedy that the church has available to us.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: But I got to do it.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you have to believe it, you have to step into the story.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Look, you, look around, linda, today, with all the evil in the world, and you think what is the remedy for all this evil?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: You know, if you don't start to come into the mystery.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: You know, john Paul would say, and every good philosopher will say you know, that's worth his weight.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: To me starts with awe and wonder.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: The awe and wonder of how we're created, the awe and wonder of love, the awe and wonder even of to see the evil around you and say how could people be so evil?
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: The sun that you mentioned earlier, the moon and the stars, they've never hurt me.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Right, they don't come up.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: You know the reason the Psalms talk about the sun, s-u-n is because the sun rises in the east.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: It's like the bridegroom coming up over the earth right To pour out his warmth, like your analogy.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: And so that's why all altars used to face east, because of that analogy right so this is all creation showing us, but the most powerful sign is the primordial sacrament, the imago dei right, because god took all of those, all of those other things that we're talking about the stars, the sun, the plants, whatever but he didn't blow into them.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: He blew them into human beings and made us different than everything else so we could, we could gaze up at the stars and the moon and be drawn into the heavens.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Well, there's almost an ache that happens when you see that kind of beauty and the and, and.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I always tell people stay in that ache.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: You know that ache is a clue that you want to be filled right and allow him to come and try to fill, even though you know you won't totally reach that right.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: We're not there yet, but it will propel you.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: It will be enough of a draw.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: You know, Jesus said when I am raised, meaning on the cross, I will draw all men, men and women, to myself.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: There's a magnetic pull there that we know in the human heart, and this magnetic pull is to the bridegroom and we have to be aware of these things, Otherwise we're going to just go into a downward spiral.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we each have that ache.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Jack the Pope tells us.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: The echo from the beginning is still in our hearts.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Each one of us knows there's something more than just the temporal, and yet many of us kind of drown in.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Where is that something more?
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: So I go chase after everything possible and find that none of it satisfies right.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: And that's where we end up with all the addictions.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And yet somehow, I think some people experiencing that see others, not at least from the outside, and think you know what's wrong with me?
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: It's no, each of us has that.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: And if we turn that, like you say, the power rather than imploding on us, if we turn that out, we can reach for the stars.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: And it just overwhelms me sometimes with the beauty of it when we get it right.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You know, I am just that awe and wonder hits me each time when we get it right.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you think about all the twisting and distortions out there.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: This is why Jesus says in Matthew 19 not to divorce your wives.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: This is why the Catholic Church says you can't divorce, Because God's covenant with us is linked to that, to the primordial sacrament, and he is not going to turn his back on us, right.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: A covenant anytime you hear covenant, a new covenant, the Old Testament covenant would be marriage.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Right, you think about marriage and so you know God's not going to walk away from you.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: You can walk away from God, but he's not going to give up on you.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Well, that's why marriage is a sign of that.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: If you don't understand that, you don't understand the Catholic Church's teaching.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: This is why sodomy is wrong, because, again, you know sodomy doesn't have.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: There's no life there.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: You know you're going to implode again, you're going to go into yourself.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: What happens with sodomy, with pornography, with all of those things alcoholism, all kinds of things right, it's not just sexual is that you'll never get enough.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: So you live in the finite place.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: And so I got to drink more, I got to do more drugs, I got to watch pornography.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: But now I got to get into hardcore pornography.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: If I start to sodomize, you know there's no way to really fulfill that sacrament right, and so it's a.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: You know you've hit kind of a dead end.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: You know there's no way to really fulfill that sacrament right, and so you've hit kind of a dead end.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: There's no life there, and so a lot of homosexuals, gay people that I know.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Even if they're in a committed relationship, so to speak, they still have usually an open relationship, because it's not enough.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: They want something more.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: And so the only way to do that and marriage is too so you didn't fulfill me, and so I think maybe the next woman's going to fulfill me, right?
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: So it happens in all of us.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: It's only when you open to the creator himself, when you link again, back again, that you can be filled with the source of divine love and then become that love in the world, that's the only way that it's going to work for you but think of that language too.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: With regards to divorce, you didn't fulfill me.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: There I go again.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to fill myself, right, you see it, just it's always there, and you're trying to fill that ache that we were talking about, and that ache can only be filled by the person who gave you those desires at the end.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean part of the divorce or sodomy or any of these things where people kind of interpret it oh, of the rules of the church.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: You know the rules, rules, rules.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: You know, oh, the rules of the church.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: You know the rules, rules, rules.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: You know that what, what those are about is that protection from self-destruction, literally.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know it's designed to help us live and thrive, and there are guidelines, if you will, that that's a wrong direction, you know.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: So it isn't the church imposing rules on us.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: It's the church saying here are things that will destroy your life and we're about living and thriving and reaching our goal of heaven.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, john Paul loved St John of the Cross and I think about that San Juanist triangle and people have man and woman.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: He created them.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: The book, it's on page 24, and it's just a triangle.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: It's a right-angle triangle, and so you have this long.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: You have this man or woman, say this human being, and one corner of the base of this triangle and the longest arm of this triangle, extending out toward your right and up toward the Trinity, and so I have this relationship.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: It's the hypotenuse of the triangle.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes yes, yes, thank you.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: And so you have this reaching up to the Trinity.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: At the same time, you have, at the other end of the bottom, the base of this uh triangle.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: You have marriage, you have a man and a woman at the same time I'm reaching out to her or him.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Right, you know, depending, right, this is a spousal love story.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: But as I'm reaching out to say my, my wife, at the same time I'm opening myself up to the Trinity.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: That's the only way.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: So I open my heart up to the Trinity and then you see, in this triangle on the right-hand side, coming down is Trinitarian love into the spousal relationship.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: So you have this downpouring of divine life and love into the marriage.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: So the I, me, being loved by God, the I, my wife, being loved by God.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Now we express that in a sacramental way with each other.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: We give that love to one another.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: This starts a community of love, and love has to grow, and that's why no contraception.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: There's another thing, right, why?
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Because love has to be open to life.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: This is what God does.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: He doesn't hold back, you know, he's not gonna hold back on Jesus, doesn't hold back on the Father, et cetera.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: The Holy Spirit is his power of love, and so this is what we do in a sacramental way, right?
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: And so all of these things will stop that grace, you know.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Sodomy again.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Pornography being a drunk being, this being that, you know.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Contraception, it's all stopping this flow, linda, and we wonder why we've become crazed, rat-ish creatures.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Right, because we, you know that sacrament is efficacious.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: When I pray, it's efficacious.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I'm being filled when I'm making love to my wife and vice versa.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: This is efficacious.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: This is a sacramental sign reflecting god's love, but also being filled at the same time, like that, san juan, is triangle being filled?
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Only then am I expressing this and does it go out, and it can't stop there with my wife right.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: It has to go out to, if it's not, children, to our neighbor, to the prisoner, to the sick, to the dying right, all of those things to the poor.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: And Jack backing it up before marriage, if you think young people, if you consider first your relationship with God, your development of receiving God's love and becoming a person of love, a young woman doing that and a young man doing that, when those two meet and marry, that's where you have that sign fulfilled, you know, because now each of them has first been filled and now they're so much more capable of understanding then, how, through their marriage and their home life, you know, their home becomes a school of love and it starts over again, right.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Once again, you know God's plan is the best.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this is, yeah, this is how, this is what we byul and and really what we mean by culture, right, you start.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: The culture is this imago dei that goes out into the world to bring what, to bring what's true, good and beautiful into the world, right, so we have an interior life, which we're talking about with prayer and with silence, with love, love itself, right, I mean what, what is love?
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: You know, show me what love looks like.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Well, it's expressed through my body, right?
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: And through who we are through what we say, through our actions, and so we make visible that love of God in this, you know, we make visible the invisible love.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Well, that's how, that invisible love between my wife and I, where is it?
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Well, it's between our.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: It's our actions, actions.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we don't think about those things, Linda.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: We think well I just have love.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Well, show me what that is if you don't act loving, if you don't speak lovingly, if you are violent to your wife or vice versa.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And Jack, sadly that happens in so many cases.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Anger out of control and all these things.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Look at abuse of kids little kids that their fathers, their own fathers are abusing, or their own mothers are abusing those kids.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is sick stuff, right?
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: This is evil that's penetrated the human heart to such a level that I don't even see anything wrong with it.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you know they're LBGTQ groups now are trying to get what they call minor attracted persons.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: These are pedophiles and they're trying to accept pedophilia as just another way to express your sexuality, I mean this is really a hedonistic, twisted, distorted view of who we are twisted, distorted view of of who we are and and we have no problem killing our own child, right, that that comes into.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: So, a man and a woman, you know they come together and, oh, there's a child coming out of this, right, what do we do?
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: We destroy that life of that child and we have no and we want it as a right.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Linda, this, this is my right to murder my own child.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I mean this is all from twisting and distorting the beauty, the beauty of how.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: God, you wonder how far that distortion can go too.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think the transgender issues are another.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, the transgender issue, yes.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, talk about that, if you want to a little bit, because I mean, we're getting into the point of like so weird and twisted that we're talking about the impossible here, aren't we?
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: It's impossible.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Well, I would wish that parents would understand that they really have gone after our kids and they really have tried to indoctrinate them into a thinking that is very far from the truth and reality.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, most teenage kids struggle with their sexuality.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: That's a normal part of it.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: But to say that, well, the solution to the struggle here is to change your gender is way off the mark, right.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: And so parents who are facing this, you know, and are very concerned, need to have a full understanding of our sexuality and that, if there's, you know some of it.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I believe, and I know you've talked to many experts and I'm just saying from my own personal perspective.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I think that you know kids hear so much that is wrong out there.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: It's not always equally balanced with the truth in the home, and I learned a long time ago that you know whatever information they're getting you know more frequently is kind of where they're going to land.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: And so parents have to kind of pick up the pace a little bit in some cases and really get this so they can teach their children the truth of our sexuality and God's plan for it, so that the kids become, in a way, inoculated against what the culture is telling them, and I still believe in my heart, and maybe you could back it up from all the data that you have is that the kids, that the parents, are still a major influence on their children and you can't give up your power as a parent to the culture.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: No, and you have to bring.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: You know, look, we have.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: I'll give a plug for Love Ed.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: You know you have to bring things like Love Ed in, which is what we do with parents and kids together and we help them unpack this with their kids.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: This is a foundational piece that doesn't take a lot of time.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: It's a one-night thing that we do with kids and parents together.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: It's an hour and a half to two hours, that's it, and we unpack this story and they give you materials to take home.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: If you're afraid to do this and if you don't do that, think about this, linda.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: How many young people today haven't even been baptized?
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: So, first of all, they have no protection from baptism, against this evil that we see around us.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: They've never heard this story that we're talking about.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: So when they're uncomfortable with their bodies, what are they told by the culture?
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Something's probably wrong with you.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: You may even be in the wrong body, right, and so this Satan is just twisting and distorting.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: It's really demonic what's happening today to our kids, and so you see them in growing and growing numbers, so twisted and distorted.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: And this gets back to how we opened it up, linda.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: This is power.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: This is power of human essence, of human love.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: This is the grace that should be in us to bring us to the stars.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Instead, we implode Everything we've been talking about.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: If you don't open this up to the stars, to God himself, right to eternal life, to the infinite love story, you will be drawn down, down, down.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: It'll be a rocket that has imploded, that it's twisted the other way and exploded and it just pushes you into the ground until everything is gone right.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: And so this is what we've done to these poor young people by not telling them a real, true love story, of everything that's true, good and beautiful it gets twisted and distorted into what, instead of being true, it's all lies.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Instead of being good, it's actually evil.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: Instead of being beautiful, it's the profane.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: The opposite of love is not hate.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: The opposite of love is lust, the selfishness that you're talking about, linda, and trying to fill yourself up full of you know people and it's an object.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: The last thing I'll say is this you just remind me of all these things, what you just said.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: We're supposed to love people and use things.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Now, we love our things, our gadgets, our phones, and we're using each other.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: We are in a lot of trouble here and we need to help these young people and we have the grace to do it, but it's going to take prayer, it's going to take the sacraments and it's going to take parents, like you said, that are going to pick up the ball and run with it.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: In studying theology of the body and learning how impacted John Paul was by St John of the Cross, I became interested in studying more of his writings.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: That was quite a while ago.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I do need to review and revisit some of it, but what struck with me is his saying that in the end, all that matters is love.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: In the end, we'll be judged by love, and that, from all my reading, that really sunk deep into my heart and I think that, with a clear understanding of what authentic love is, then we can constantly remind ourselves of that whenever we're faced with whatever choices big choices or little choices to remember that.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: No, that's right.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: St Thomas Aquinas would say the same thing.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Right, st Paul said the same thing.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: You know faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: You know, read that ode to love in 1 Corinthians 13,.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Exactly what you just said.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: You know, linda, we got to wrap this up, let me just you know, in Redemptor Hominis this is John Paul's first encyclical.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: When he first became Pope, he said I brought this from Poland with me already.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: I had this all in my heart.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: All I did was write it down.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: And so the Redeemer of man, that means right, redemptor Hominis.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: And in number 10, he says this and if we didn't talk about everything we did, you would say, well, okay, but now that we did, right Within, everything we said, he said this man cannot live without love.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: He remains a being that's incomprehensible for himself.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: His life is senseless if love is not revealed to him, if he does not encounter love, if he does not experience it and make it his own, if he does not participate intimately in love.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: This, as has already been said, is why Christ the Redeemer fully reveals man to man himself.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: And so this is Christ the Redeemer, revealing what is he revealing on the cross.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: This is my body, this is my blood, given for you.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I'm pouring everything I can as a gift of self, and this gift that I give you will overcome sin and death.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: That's why I came.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I came to take away the power of the devil, of Satan himself, and to give you life in abundance.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Right, I love John 10.10,.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Right, I came to bring you life in abundance.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: But what does it say?
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: The full verse is still just John 10.10.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: We always say the second half of the verse, the first one, and again I'm just going off the top of my head.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: The thief comes to kill and destroy and take.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I came to give you life and give you life in abundance, and so this is the battle of the heart, linda.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Beautiful what we're talking about is everything it's everything.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that section from the encyclical.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: We could read it over and over again.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Man cannot live without love.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: That's that eight, Jack.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is, that's it Put in words yeah.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: It's a great, great way to kind of pull this all back together.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Linda, thanks for being with me.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Thanks everybody, thanks for being with us.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: You know next Wednesday we may be a little late getting this out.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I'm traveling a little bit.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Linda and I are hoping to record a podcast Wednesday morning.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it takes me a little while to edit it and get it up on the podcast platforms and stuff.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: But, linda, thank you so much for your time.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: God bless you.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Thanks everyone.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Talk to you soon.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Thanks everyone.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Talk to you soon.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Jack.