Latest / New Worlder / Episode #111: Garima Arora

Transcript

Episode #111: Garima Arora · New Worlder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is the New Order Podcast and I am one of your hosts, Nicholas Gill.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Co-host Juliana Duque will be joining shortly.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Today we are speaking with Garima Arara,
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: the India-born chef of the two Michelin star restaurant Gha in Bangkok,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thailand.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: She is the only female Indian chef with two Michelin stars.
• 0:22
  Garima has been working tirelessly to awaken the transformative
• 0:27
  potential of Indian
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: cuisine both in India and abroad for many years.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: She developed a non-profit called Food Forward India that documents,
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: discovers,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: and catalogs the diversity and complexity of Indian food
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: and the culture surrounding it.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: She is also a judge on MasterChef India,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: one of the most wide-reaching culinary television shows on Earth.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: In our conversation, we speak
• 0:53
  of how the perception of Indian food has changed since she
• 0:57
  opened the restaurant.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: I spent two months in the country when I was 25.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: This was 20 years ago.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was traveling on third-class trains everywhere,
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: going from the Himalayas in the north to Goa and Hampi in the south,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: and the border with Pakistan in the west to Varanasi in the east.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Aside of being one of the most impactful periods of my life,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: I tasted so many things that were new to me,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: and I haven't seen them since.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Indian food,
• 1:23
  the cuisine of this massive landscape with hundreds of
• 1:26
  ecosystems and more people
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: than any other country on the planet,
• 1:30
  was for many years reduced to a handful of curries and breads
• 1:34
  outside of the
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: country.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's so vast and rich, but has been bottled up within India for so long.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: But suddenly that's starting to change.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's starting to spread.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is a very big moment for Indian food outside of India.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Tresen Studio in Dubai was just awarded three Michelin stars.
• 1:52
  Sema in New York was named the best restaurant in the city by
• 1:55
  the New York Times
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: just the other day.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: And within India,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: there was a lot going on too,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: not just with fine dining restaurants,
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: but at the street level.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's this energy there that is growing by the day.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is a cuisine,
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: sorry,
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: not a cuisine,
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: but thousands of them that have been overlooked for far too long.
• 2:13
  Side of trying to juggle parenting with chef life and her
• 2:17
  career as a journalist,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Garima talks about her work at Gha.
• 2:21
  She tells us about the historic Thai house that was moved in
• 2:24
  pieces to Bangkok and
• 2:25
  reassembled with the help of a modern architecture firm to
• 2:29
  create the setting of
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: the restaurant.
• 2:31
  She tells us how she cooks the Thai fruit durian on a tandoor
• 2:36
  oven as her main
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: course,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: which sounds like the most delicious thing ever.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't subscribed to my newsletter,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: just go to newworlder.com or search for New Worlder on Substack.
• 2:47
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• 2:48
  though paid subscribers get access to all the content and the
• 2:51
  back archives.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Again, that's newworlder.com.
• 2:54
  Also,
• 2:54
  look for my books,
• 2:55
  such as the Latin American Cookbook at small bookstores
• 2:59
  everywhere.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Also, check out the New Worlder YouTube channel.
• 3:03
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• 3:05
  as well as some clips and other video content.
• 3:07
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• 3:10
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• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds simple, but it really does help in a big way.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy the show.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Garima.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm great.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Doing really well.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: How about you?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: You just had a baby, right?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Very recently.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I did.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't normally look like this.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: I look better rested.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, my daughter, she is now three months old.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Three months, okay.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, how is having two now?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Is it hard to juggle?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Harder than you expected?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have two as well.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: The second one, just having that on top of another young child is like
• 4:45
  It like,
• 4:46
  it's so much harder just because you're trying to manage both
• 4:49
  of them.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, now they're older.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: They're 10 and seven.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me it gets better.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like now they're so independent.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's, it's amazing.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like how little I need to do.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: I still need to do a lot obviously because they're kids,
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: but like they can make themselves dinner if they want to,
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: they can,
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: get up and shower by themselves and get dressed and clean their rooms and
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it does take a few years to get to that point,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: and it seems like it's never going to end,
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: and you're just pulling your hair out all the time,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: and you're just so fucking tired all the time for years that you're like,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: how could this ever change?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's like they grow up so fast.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And Juliana, you have one that's moving to New York now.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know how that feels.
• 5:39
  You guys are making me feel that it's easy to have just one and
• 5:43
  that it's in college.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's about to finish college.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: He has one year left.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it looks so easy in comparison with what you were saying.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: I probably forgot part of it,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: but I have heard that it's...
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Two is just so much...
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: It just becomes so much harder,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: but then at some point,
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: the two kids connect.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: that it balances out in a way that I think makes it extra helpful.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: How old is your other kid, Karima?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: My older one is two.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm literally living the two under two.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's a different kind of beast as I'm figuring out.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: You make it through.
• 6:27
  It's like,
• 6:28
  it's almost like opening a restaurant,
• 6:30
  you know,
• 6:30
  it's just like,
• 6:31
  I'm sure like.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's not.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's much more organized opening a restaurant.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I compare it so many times.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like, you know, you can be prepped.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: You can have your misoplast.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can label all your containers.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: You can, you know, you have everything ready.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly you realize you've been prepping the wrong cuisine.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's no longer in India.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you've been prepping for the.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: you think you're opening an Indian restaurant,
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: but no,
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: all your diners are expecting Italian.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So what now?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one of those things.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, congratulations.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, congratulations.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about something else.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: This just tires me thinking about raising children.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Talk about your older babies.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, Indian food is having a moment right now, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Why is that?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's about time, isn't it?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of things are contributing to that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: For once, I think Indian chefs are now kind of championing.
• 7:34
  I wouldn't say real Indian food,
• 7:35
  but diverse Indian food,
• 7:38
  regional Indian food.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, India is full of micro cuisines, I feel.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: vast geographical region.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Every little part has its own history, own story to tell.
• 7:52
  And I think Indian cooks are now going beyond the curries and
• 7:57
  the naans and
• 7:58
  showcasing what's actually possible with Indian cuisine and
• 8:02
  Indian cooking.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that's also kind of helping things along.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: How did it become so reduced?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is that just, you know, colonialism?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was just like exported?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's it?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think the curry house itself is such an alien word or term to us.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: The word curry is such an alien term to us.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't exist in our cooking.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't exist in the way we eat.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think for the longest time, we've been exporting
• 8:30
  this version of Indian cuisine that is seen from the eyes of an
• 8:37
  outsider or has
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: been experienced from the palate of an outsider.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we played along because, you know,
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: when Indian cooks went outside of the country,
• 8:49
  wanted to cook and had to cook something that they knew people
• 8:52
  would enjoy,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: was something that people understood before,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: and then that is what it was.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as time goes on, that changes.
• 9:01
  The need to play to that crowd or that version of Indian food,
• 9:10
  yeah,
• 9:10
  that diminishes.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that makes a difference for sure.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: What more needs to happen?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how more can you change that?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's still this expectation by a lot of the world,
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: and this isn't just with Indian food,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: that it should be inexpensive.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it should be cheap.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: It should be just these, just rice with, you know, curry.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: How do you break out of that?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's changed a lot.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: When we opened Gaa eight years ago, it was very different.
• 9:40
  Honestly,
• 9:41
  we had diners come in expecting curry and naan,
• 9:43
  and obviously we never served that.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we had a lot of unhappy diners eight years, nine years ago.
• 9:49
  But I find that chefs opening restaurants now don't kind of
• 9:54
  have to deal with that.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: People have already come to expect...
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: a version of Indian cuisine, which is not that.
• 10:02
  I think they come to restaurants like ours and maybe probably
• 10:07
  feel underwhelmed if
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: you serve them a curry or naan or a version of that even,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 10:14
  This is a change I have seen in my diners over the last eight
• 10:17
  years since we opened GASO.
• 10:20
  Yeah,
• 10:20
  I think the change is quite naturally happening and it's taking
• 10:25
  its own course.
• 10:27
  I think what needs to happen is probably a little bit more of a
• 10:31
  push from the
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: beholders of Indian cuisine and the gatekeepers of Indian cuisine,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: bureaucratic change,
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: political will,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: all of that kind of plays in.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's about time.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think as India grows,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: as an economy grows,
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: as a nation comes into its own,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: cuisine will also find its place.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: For female chefs, do they get the recognition they deserve in India?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, define a female chef.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is it my mom who's cooking in her home kitchen?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: All kinds, I guess.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like every level from the Michelin slash show.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: You think they get the recognition they deserve?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've always felt that,
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: there's never been a conspiracy to keep women out of commercial kitchens.
• 11:27
  That's just that's not how I have had experienced this industry
• 11:32
  at all ever.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a tough place to be.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a physically very demanding job.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's ridiculous hours is the sacrifices that it takes from a woman.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's very different from the ask from a man.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I find that more so now that I have two kids.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can go on from 9 a.m.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: to 12 a.m.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: in my restaurant if I wanted to, but I can't.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that means, yes, I have to say no to work.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have to say no to some opportunities.
• 12:03
  I have to prioritize because my kids need me and I can only do
• 12:07
  that as a mother.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And only a mother can do that for their kids.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: So yes,
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: it's not an easy profession for women to be in,
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: but that's the nature of the job.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Again, the ask is changing.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: For the longest time, it's been sort of a blue-collar
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: job.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's changing.
• 12:29
  It's kind of attracting more Harvard graduates and it's
• 12:33
  becoming a white collar job.
• 12:34
  It's probably more intellectual now to be a chef than it was 10
• 12:39
  years ago.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think that helps.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: That helps to see more women in the profession.
• 12:46
  It gives a woman a chance to balance both personal and
• 12:48
  professional life because
• 12:50
  it's not fair to ask that of a woman to kind of have to
• 12:53
  sacrifice everything just
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: for work.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: and also the other way around.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: You were a journalist before, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: How was that transition and what made you to decide to go for this?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I started to be a journalist.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I went to a media school.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: I studied mass media, studied journalism.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: I worked in a newspaper for all of eight months.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't very good at it.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Cooking was always kind of the back of my mind.
• 13:27
  I thought once I went in my Pulitzer,
• 13:29
  I'll go open a restaurant somewhere.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think I realized very soon that if I wanted to be a chef,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a young person's game.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's a physically demanding job.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if I wanted to do that, now would be the time.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And this was in, it was barely 20, 21.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's when I decided to make that switch and jump.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: What were you reporting on?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Business.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I was on the business beat.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was, I mean, it was my first job.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I did an internship in a news channel, which I think still runs in India.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: I worked at Indian Express,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: a very reputable newspaper,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: and then I was covering the business speed.
• 14:13
  It still seems like communication is a very important part of
• 14:17
  how you cook and how you see food.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: do you think of that a lot,
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: how you apply what you learned in journalism to running your restaurant?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: the basic tenets of journalism,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: the when,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: where,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: what,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: why,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: and how,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think I kind of do apply that to my cooking as well.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: It helps me think through a recipe.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: It helps me think through a new dish, say, we were putting on a menu.
• 14:44
  We kind of have to be able to answer why this dish,
• 14:47
  why this moment in the menu.
• 14:50
  uh how do we put it together who's going to be eating it the
• 14:53
  all these questions i
• 14:54
  think when you ask these questions and you kind of get uh and
• 14:57
  you're able to answer
• 14:58
  them those dishes kind of land better i've never thought of it
• 15:02
  like that but
• 15:02
  especially like a tasting menu like i wish more chefs would
• 15:07
  think of it like that
• 15:08
  you know or because so many times there's just something that's
• 15:12
  totally out of
• 15:12
  place it doesn't need to be there they haven't thought the
• 15:15
  story through the
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: concept
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it does fall flat.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And even if it tastes delicious,
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: it's just it doesn't always,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: it disrupts the flow of information that's coming.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the tasting menu,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: is as much flow of information as it is flow of flavors.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like reading through an article, right?
• 15:40
  You have a headline,
• 15:41
  you have a subheading,
• 15:42
  you have an introduction,
• 15:43
  you have the main body.
• 15:45
  And then you wrap it up with,
• 15:49
  well,
• 15:49
  in this case,
• 15:50
  something sweet,
• 15:50
  right?
• 15:52
  So if you have these clickbait articles these days where it
• 15:56
  draws you in and then
• 15:57
  you read through it and it's so frustrating at the end of it
• 15:59
  and you're like,
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: why?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Why did I have to go through that?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes tasting menus can be like that.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Totally, totally.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Clickbait tasting menus, absolutely.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's very from here.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you, you stopped journalism.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: You said, I want to cook.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: What was your first step?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: was breaking it to my parents.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: you have to understand,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: growing up in the 90s in India,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: a girl is...
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed with really sort of visionary or forward-thinking parents.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm extremely lucky.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Not every girl gets that or has that.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was first telling my parents that this is what I wanted to do.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to go and study.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: cooking of all the things.
• 16:51
  My father had always told me that I may not be able to give you
• 16:56
  a lot of money in
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: your lifetime,
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: but one thing I will always pay for is your education.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever you want to study,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: whenever you want to study,
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: you come and tell me,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: and I'll pay for that.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he expected me to do an MBA.
• 17:09
  That's what Indian kids normally do,
• 17:12
  maybe a post-grad in journalism,
• 17:14
  a doctorate or something.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I went up to him and said I wanted to be a cook.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And he was really happy.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: He loves to eat.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: He loves to eat.
• 17:25
  And I get my joy of cooking from him because I saw him cooking
• 17:30
  a lot growing up.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we spent a lot of time in the kitchen together.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so he was very happy.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't think I'd probably
• 17:38
  you know,
• 17:38
  do everything that I did after and actually make a career out
• 17:41
  of it.
• 17:42
  He just thought that,
• 17:43
  you know,
• 17:43
  I'd come back and cook really good meals for him.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I do still cook for him,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: he never expected me to go down this road because it was unheard of,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: unheard of for male chefs and completely unheard of for,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 18:04
  young Indian girl kind of wanting to do this and leaving the
• 18:07
  country to kind of
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: chase after all these dreams and these restaurants and this kind of,
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: live this kind of life.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: My mom's first question was, when would I get married?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was all of 20.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: But that's an Asian mom for you.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: They look out, that's important to them.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: The idea to go abroad, you studied in France, right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: In Paris?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea was right away, cook at a very high level.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't just go open a restaurant.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was go learn at a very high level.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Were you exposed to that growing up?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're competitive.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not this kind of cooking.
• 18:50
  I think we're competitive when it comes to,
• 18:53
  we take education very seriously in India,
• 18:56
  right?
• 18:57
  Especially,
• 18:57
  I mean,
• 19:00
  things obviously are changing now and professions are changing.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: But growing up, opportunities were limited.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Professions were limited.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Choices were limited.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: You either grew up to be a doctor,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: engineer,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: one of those professions,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: one of those high-paying professions.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So and every time you would go down that road,
• 19:19
  you would want to get the best education because that would
• 19:21
  promise the best
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: future.
• 19:23
  So I think this is something which is inculcated in Indian kids
• 19:26
  from a very young
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: age where you are hyper competitive and you seek out the best education,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: the best opportunities.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So for me,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was but natural that,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: if I had to do this,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I would want to work at the best restaurants.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I want to stay in the best school.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do it the best way possible.
• 19:43
  Although I never fit into that competitive scheme of things
• 19:46
  back home growing up,
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was more of,
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: I did my own thing.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: I never fell in line with those, as far as that system was concerned.
• 19:55
  But I think part of it kind of rubbed off and made me chase my
• 20:00
  dreams harder.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you go to France,
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: you go,
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: where did,
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: and you start working at,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: high level restaurants,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: you worked at Noma for,
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: for how long?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, two years.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And what was that experience like for you?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: That was,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the best investment I've made in,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: in,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: in,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: in my life for my career in my,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: for me,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I went there as an intern.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: An unpaid intern,
• 20:29
  I know they don't do that anymore because they received a lot
• 20:32
  of backlash for it,
• 20:33
  but I would trade my time 100 times over for the experience I
• 20:37
  got there for
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: nothing.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it taught me a lot.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: It taught me not just how to cook.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: You don't walk away from a restaurant like Norma with the recipes.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: That does not work.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: You walk away with a mindset, a way of thinking.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it changed me.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: not only as a cook,
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: as a person,
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: it taught me to think about where I came from,
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: my cuisine,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: how would I take,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: what would I do with Indian cooking?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think it taught me all of that.
• 21:10
  So you're at Noma for a couple of years,
• 21:12
  then you moved to Thailand to work with Gagan.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: You went straight from Noma?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
• 21:19
  So I think Gagan at that point was opening a restaurant in
• 21:22
  India and he was looking
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: for a head chef.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to move back
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: to be close to my then boyfriend, now husband.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I moved to Thailand to spend a couple of months in his kitchen here,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: in Gagan's kitchen here,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: and the restaurant in India never happened.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: One thing led to another,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: and I met investors in Bangkok,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: and they offered to do a restaurant with me,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: and that's how Gagan was born.
• 21:50
  You're cooking Indian food in Bangkok with Gagan,
• 21:53
  and then cooking Indian food in Bangkok
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: with your own restaurant.
• 21:57
  So how did you,
• 21:58
  did you think,
• 21:59
  like,
• 21:59
  I have to make this very different from Gagan?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: to be honest,
• 22:04
  I only worked at Gagan's restaurant for three or four months
• 22:07
  while GAA was being
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: built up.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have much to contribute to his,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: his restaurant and probably didn't take much away either,
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just to clarify, he was an investor in Ga earlier.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Him and the other investors, again, I think they all broke apart.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And when they did, I moved away and opened Ga by myself.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we were together.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think this was during COVID when everybody decided to part ways.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I didn't spend a lot of time at Ga Ga, to be honest.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: But still, like, just thinking, you're in Bangkok.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: How many...
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: high-level fine-dining Indian restaurants, could there be?
• 22:52
  Like,
• 22:52
  did you think in your head,
• 22:53
  like,
• 22:54
  I have to make this very different from what he's doing?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yes and no.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think our approach to food is very different.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know whether you've eaten at his restaurant or...
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't been to his restaurant,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: but I've had his,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: he did a pop-up in New York,
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: like a dinner.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think our approach is very different.
• 23:15
  It's the same way to,
• 23:16
  I guess,
• 23:19
  two Spanish chefs look at Spanish cuisine very differently.
• 23:22
  There's a very big difference between,
• 23:24
  say,
• 23:25
  what they do at Echabari versus what they do at
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know, at Elbuli, for example.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're very different.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: I get that.
• 23:34
  But it's like you're both in Bangkok at a time when there isn't
• 23:38
  a lot of fine
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: dining Indian places.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Around the world at all.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's not maybe India, but, you know, it's a very niche category.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: And suddenly there are two.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there are others.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I don't know that much about them.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: But now there are quite a few.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: this is very recent that,
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 23:59
  it's much easier for chefs today to showcase modern Indian
• 24:03
  restaurant than it was
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: probably eight,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: 10 years ago,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: definitely.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I understand your question correctly,
• 24:14
  It's how multifaceted Indian cuisine is,
• 24:18
  and there's so much to showcase.
• 24:20
  It didn't really ever occur to me or bother me that we might be
• 24:25
  telling the same story.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes total sense.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what is your story?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: How will you summarize your story or your approach to it?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I had a clear answer for that.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm still kind of trying to articulate what we do at GA.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in this moment,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: the best way to put it is,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: it's telling,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: it's putting forth Indian food,
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: how I enjoy it,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: how I see it,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: how it makes sense to me in the 21st century,
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: to the modern diner.
• 25:07
  drawing context from memories,
• 25:11
  from flavors,
• 25:13
  from moments,
• 25:15
  you know,
• 25:15
  growing up.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's telling that story.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me about this building that the restaurant is in.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that sounds incredible.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So beautiful.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it was during COVID when we were looking for a new home for Ga,
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: and we came across this empty plot of land.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just curious what's coming up here, right?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was just driving past, literally.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's just how we found the space.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: We started speaking to the landlord,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: and he just mentioned that,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: if you want to open a restaurant here,
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: you're good.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, okay, we could construct something here.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And he just happened to say that I have a house in Ayutthaya.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you want me to bring it over, I can.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you mean bring a house over?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we went and saw the space.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: We went and saw the house.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thai house is unbuilt in foundation.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're built on stilts.
• 26:04
  So they can literally be unpacked like Legos and then put in
• 26:08
  the back of a truck,
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: brought over to Bangkok and put back up again.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I just fell in love with the house.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think it had so much history.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost, it's all of 80, 85 years old now
• 26:21
  And when we saw that,
• 26:23
  I thought,
• 26:24
  you know,
• 26:25
  it's steeped in so much history.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: It has such a story to tell.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's so old.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: So much has happened within these worlds.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: What if we try to tell a modern story in here?
• 26:34
  I think that would kind of extend our food philosophy into the
• 26:39
  dining room as well.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: So on the outside, it looks like an old Thai house.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And when you walk in, it's very modern.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's very minimalist.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's very different.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it says a lot about the dining experience as well.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: But it's all steeped in Indian history, in culture, in context.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it's presented in a way which is modern and
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Can you do much to the house?
• 27:03
  I'm sure there's historic preservation laws or something
• 27:10
  because it looks like a
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: museum piece from what I can tell.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: There are limitations to what we can do.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: We can't change the general structure, the layout, the space.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: We need to preserve the wood.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: We can't change the wood without the
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there are carpenters,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: or there are a few companies,
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm calling them companies,
• 27:36
  but these are generational sort of skilled workers who work on
• 27:40
  preserving Thai
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: houses.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: There are a few of them around,
• 27:43
  and you kind of have to work with them to make any changes
• 27:46
  within the house or
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: outside.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: So they have to kind of okay it.
• 27:51
  We were able to have the inside painted as long as we promised
• 27:55
  that it could be
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: shaved off,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: but the outside,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: no,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: we couldn't change it at all.
• 28:01
  So it's the owner of the house together with the artisans to
• 28:03
  kind of decide what
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: you can or cannot do to the house.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Was it hard to lay out like dining rooms and kitchens?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very, it is restrictive, yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the lower floor is obviously bricks and mortar and concrete,
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: but it mirrors the space upstairs,
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: which is the Thai house.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, we had to kind of work around it.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: it's a weird L-shape building,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: and you wonder,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: you have so much free space,
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: why don't you use that?
• 28:35
  Well,
• 28:35
  we're restricted with what we can do with the space,
• 28:38
  or change it or modify it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: What about the ingredients?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do you import some?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get some there?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: What is the logistics for you?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think what 90% of our ingredients are from Thailand.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: And this to me is very important.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is the where of the story, right?
• 28:57
  I always say if Gaa wasn't,
• 28:58
  say,
• 28:59
  another part of the world,
• 29:00
  it would taste very different.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it would taste Indian, but the menu would be very different.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: We wouldn't be doing this menu.
• 29:07
  And this is a testament to what is possible with applying
• 29:10
  Indian techniques to
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: ingredients available in one geographic region.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's Indian techniques applied to ingredients found within Thailand.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: The result is something different and unique, which is Indian at heart.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And say if this was in the Philippines or in Tokyo or in Japan or,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: in Korea or anywhere else in Asia,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think the menu would look very different and feel very different.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: But if you were to eat it, I'm sure it would be Indian.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: You would taste India there.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: What are the ingredients that need to be imported?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Some spices.
• 29:47
  Thailand has very limited dry spices because Indian cuisine
• 29:52
  uses a lot of dry
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: spices,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: but Thailand uses a lot of fresh spices.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of our spices are coming from back home.
• 29:58
  We also tried to highlight some interesting ingredients that
• 30:00
  are in season back
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: home,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: which diners do not try to get,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: do not get to try in Bangkok when we had mangoes,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Alfonso mangoes,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: if you've ever heard of them.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: sweetest, most delicious mangoes ever.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they're in season for like all of four weeks.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we tried to get them in and kind of, you know, showcase that.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, some ingredients like that, yeah, we do try to bring them in.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Are there Thai ingredients you fall in love with?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Our main course is a durian.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what a durian is?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there is no durian in India, right?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes,
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: there is,
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: but not,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: just maybe,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: a small village somewhere kind of using it in their cooking.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a mainstream ingredient by any means,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: or, you know, a favorite ingredient or a soda.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, we do a tandoori durin.
• 30:49
  We take the durin,
• 30:50
  we stick it in the tandoor,
• 30:51
  we cook it,
• 30:52
  and we serve it as a main course.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: So our main course forever has been vegetarian.
• 30:57
  Again,
• 30:57
  that's to showcase what's possible with Indian cooking and,
• 31:00
  you know,
• 31:01
  vegetarian food.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a very polarizing move when I put that on.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody was like, oh, you know, you're going to,
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to regret this.
• 31:12
  Nobody's going to ever want to eat main course,
• 31:14
  you know,
• 31:14
  durian as a main course.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not going to fly.
• 31:16
  And I think I was adamant that I really wanted to try it out
• 31:20
  and people come back asking for it.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: So let's, let's talk about this course more.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it's Dorian cooked.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know exactly.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know too much about Tandoor ovens, but is it high heat, low heat?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: High heat.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: High heat.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: So how long?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: It depends, right?
• 31:37
  So the way that the tandoor works is during the day when you're
• 31:40
  using it during
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: service,
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: it's high heat.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And end of service,
• 31:44
  you have a lot of residual heat where you can leave things to
• 31:47
  kind of slow cook.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we do that as well.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we sometimes dry ingredients in there.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: We dry, you know, herbs in there to get a little bit of smoky taste.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: We cook stuff on top, slow cook things on top off the tandoor overnight.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: But the durian in particular is obviously cooked in high heat.
• 32:10
  We take the meat of the durian out and season it and put it
• 32:16
  back into the tandoor
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: in its shell and then let it cook through on the charcoal.
• 32:23
  that's served with a lot of condiments and breads and stuff
• 32:25
  like that so it all
• 32:28
  comes together like a sharing course the main course which is
• 32:34
  what Indian food is
• 32:35
  like in a lot of chutneys and pickles and condiments and kind
• 32:37
  of make your own bite
• 32:38
  and every bite tastes different some bites can be a little bit
• 32:41
  spicier because you
• 32:42
  add a little bit more spice sometimes some bites are crispier
• 32:45
  because that's a
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: texture that you can add yeah I'm really fond of that course
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: So does it feel like meaty?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's meaty.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's cheesy, meaty.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: It changes a lot in texture and flavor when you cook it like that.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Do they cook durian in Thailand at all, ever?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Traditionally, probably not.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: But now, yeah.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think I saw somebody doing Hawaiian pizza with pineapple,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: but you know,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I will call it a chengma pizza.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure an Italian's head exploded somewhere.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: How do you explain all this to your staff?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do you explain the essence of it apart from trying flavors and
• 33:33
  How do you translate what you want to from an experience you
• 33:37
  only had when you were a kid?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm guessing not all your stuff is coming from India.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think this is actually easier than you think.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: There is a lot of things in common between India and Thailand.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Cuisine is a very small part, language.
• 33:57
  Mythology,
• 33:58
  religion,
• 33:59
  God,
• 34:00
  there's so much in common between the two countries.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we harp on that.
• 34:08
  We harp on things that make us similar instead of what makes us
• 34:12
  different from each other.
• 34:14
  And I feel our front of house staff,
• 34:19
  the staff in the dining room responds really well to that.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So there's always a connection that you can find.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's, for example, the beetle leaf.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: We in India always have it sweet as a dessert,
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: as almost like a digestive at the end of the meal.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it's always used savory in Thai cuisine.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: But this is a comparison which is very easy to explain to someone.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know how you do it savory.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: We do it sweet.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, of course, you understand it.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And immediately they're able to tell that story on the table.
• 34:46
  And so I think finding similarities helps better to tell the
• 34:51
  story than harping on
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: the things that makes us different.
• 34:56
  And is there something about the ways of eating it that you
• 34:59
  want to keep from the
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Indian food waste?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something you have to explain as well?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or is your own take on it and it doesn't need much translation?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is not only the flavors, right?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the times, but also all the cultural stuff around it.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how much of that
• 35:25
  you face when you're creating that,
• 35:27
  or it doesn't...
• 35:29
  You mean the way to eat a ingredient?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: because,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: the fact that you're doing,
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: obviously,
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: your own creation on a base of what you learned and saw and remember,
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: and it's still going on.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: But all the cultural things around it that are not tangible,
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that influence what you do.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you...
• 35:55
  find yourself having to consciously talk about that or it's
• 36:01
  something that you just
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: keep personal and then the staff don't address that.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious about the intangibles of it.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think we definitely tell the story.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: The why is very important.
• 36:13
  Because it's very easy to then fall in the trap of the cuisine
• 36:17
  being understood as fusion.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a word that I hate.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not that.
• 36:21
  The kind of effort we put in,
• 36:23
  it couldn't be further away from it being,
• 36:26
  say,
• 36:26
  fusion.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Suddenly you see Julian on the menu in an Indian restaurant.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's very easy to call it that.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's where it comes on the team in the dining room to...
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: to be able to communicate that cultural reference very, very clearly.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, those stories may be personal to me.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time,
• 36:52
  we are able to find a bridge where they understand it and can
• 36:55
  communicate that to
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: the guest.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: you just have to,
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: just learn it and,
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:02
  just repeat it on the table so people understand that there is
• 37:05
  a cultural reference
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: to this.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes...
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Tasting the food also helps.
• 37:11
  We make sure our team is constantly tasting while they're
• 37:16
  tasting the stories
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: being,
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: I tell them the story that helps.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's some parts of the menu are easier than others too.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a limit of how much you can explain to the diners?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like so many times they zone out if you,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: if you talk too much and,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: even if this is some
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, something complicated.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then they get bored and then the food gets cold or whatever.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the easiest way is just to taste it and it tastes good.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Your food has to taste good, right?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's the basic.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's like the starting point.
• 37:58
  You can't over intellectualize every single dish and every
• 38:00
  single dish can't be
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: because my grandmother did it this way.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: me as a diner,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: when I go out,
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: maybe I'm a little bit jaded because I come from the industry.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, after a while, you just want to enjoy good food.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's the point of going out.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to be talked down to.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to listen to these stories.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's...
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it can be too much sometimes.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: But then there are guests who really want to hear that story.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: They enjoy it.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is where good hospitality or good service comes in.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing your diners,
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: understanding what they want,
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: when they want to be left alone,
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: when they're actually interested in wanting to know more.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: That is why we encourage chefs to go on tables as much as possible.
• 38:45
  I think chefs are able to pick up on this much better than
• 38:49
  sometimes than service.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you have a different eye on the table.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: somebody asks a question,
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: a small little question,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: we immediately know,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: this is the kind of table that,
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: wants to know this detail and I'm sure we are able to.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: So all sort of diners out there.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, but I'm in the same way.
• 39:06
  There's a point where you've like eaten at so many restaurants
• 39:09
  around the world.
• 39:11
  had so many amazing things and then you get a little exhausted
• 39:14
  sometimes of it you
• 39:16
  know like especially if you go on a trip for five days and
• 39:19
  you're eating tasting
• 39:20
  menus every day because you're in you know bass country or
• 39:23
  paris or something and
• 39:25
  then at some point you're just like okay i've eaten so much i
• 39:28
  just yeah i just want
• 39:29
  to have a glass of wine and you know a nice piece of bread with
• 39:33
  or whatever and you
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: know just chill out and not think so much yep
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I totally agree with you.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's up to me,
• 39:43
  we try to keep communication minimal on the table and let the
• 39:46
  food do the talking.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned this at,
• 39:50
  I went on one of these trips where we were eating continuously
• 39:52
  over five days,
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: one restaurant after the other.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time of the fifth day, I was just so done.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: But we went to this restaurant where the food was just so good.
• 40:02
  It kind of,
• 40:03
  you know,
• 40:04
  restarted our appetite and we wanted to eat more and more.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I understand, that's when I understood that,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody, food has to taste good.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: It has to taste good and people will eat it and enjoy and understand it.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we try.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you there.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And being so busy,
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: obviously,
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: trying to make this work in an excellent way and your kids now.
• 40:28
  how do you keep the conversation going with other chefs around
• 40:33
  the world and just
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: the industry or things that can influence your work in an active way?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because at Noma, you have access to all that, right?
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: And probably in other jobs you have.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: But right now,
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: because you have to be so focused,
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: do you find yourself being isolated and disconnected from that?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: How do you balance that?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: It can be lonely sometimes.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Motherhood is not easy.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's a full-time job.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: And mom guilt is a real thing.
• 41:07
  I was never the kind of person who would have bought into that,
• 41:10
  but I understand now.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah,
• 41:14
  it's difficult to be in touch with everybody and kind of be at
• 41:18
  the right place at
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: the right time when you have two little ones who depend on you.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing is for sure, it helps you prioritize things better.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: You learn to say no to things.
• 41:31
  You learn to say yes to the things that truly matter and
• 41:35
  actually add value to your
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: business,
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: to your life.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: So in that way, yes, it's a more grounding experience.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: But to answer your question, yeah,
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: It can be isolating.
• 41:47
  This part of being a female chef,
• 41:48
  I totally agree,
• 41:49
  because your priorities are very different.
• 41:51
  And the time that you're able to devote to your profession
• 41:55
  drastically reduces once
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: you start a family.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's our face.
• 42:01
  yes it is it is i'm not regretting it at all i'm enjoying it i
• 42:04
  think you have to
• 42:05
  learn to enjoy every part of life every phase of life with uh
• 42:09
  with grace with uh
• 42:12
  with uh you know with happiness with with a smile and it all
• 42:17
  works out gratitude
• 42:18
  yeah yeah exactly gratitude is a big part of it as well and
• 42:23
  thailand's such a happy
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: place
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: I just remember being there when I was like 22.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: That was the only time I was there.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: And just such a beautiful and lovely and just friendly place.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Is it still beautiful and friendly?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's generally the nature of the people here.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it is.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: That hasn't changed.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot more malls around, a lot more traffic.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: But other than that, no, that remains the same.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, but it's like I see photos of it now and it looks...
• 42:56
  so massive like the buildings and it totally wasn't like that
• 43:01
  20 years ago yeah but
• 43:03
  i mean that's kind of every city major city in the world i
• 43:06
  guess is okay and
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: talking about connection with india garima do you
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: You started this nonprofit some years ago,
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm wondering if it's still active or it's on pause now?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's on pause currently.
• 43:21
  I think it was during COVID that we had to take a pause because
• 43:25
  the initiative was
• 43:27
  almost nomadic in nature where it required for us to travel to
• 43:31
  different parts of
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: the country.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it was almost for three years that I wasn't able to leave Thailand.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a shame.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: We started off really well with our first trip in Telangana.
• 43:44
  That's the eastern part of the country,
• 43:46
  a big state in the eastern part of the country.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:50
  But I think once I have more bandwidth,
• 43:54
  that is something I really want to get back to.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: But you opened a restaurant in India, right?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: A Thai restaurant.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:05
  We opened in Delhi in December and we opening another one in
• 44:09
  Mumbai next month.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: So this is casual, right?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a casual restaurant.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's a casual Thai restaurant.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh,
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: it's,
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: it's taking flavors of Thailand that I've enjoyed,
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: in the past so many years and,
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: kind of taking it back home.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's headed by one of my sous chefs who's Indian.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: He was the first intern at GA and kind of made his way up the chain.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, now he's heading it back in India.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's as much as I enjoy GA and I love doing what I do here,
• 44:43
  I think it's also the next generation of chefs from my kitchen
• 44:48
  kind of now finding
• 44:49
  their own way or doing their own thing and we're supporting
• 44:52
  that in the best way I
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: can.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like there's a lot of opportunity for a
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: Indian chefs around the world now.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's a high demand for trained Indian chefs.
• 45:03
  I just remember this moment,
• 45:04
  and I mostly cover Latin America,
• 45:06
  and there was this moment when
• 45:09
  Peruvian chefs,
• 45:10
  they were being exported around the world like it was a product
• 45:15
  almost.
• 45:16
  If you worked at a handful of restaurants and you could do some
• 45:20
  basic things,
• 45:21
  it's like the world was open to you just because there was such
• 45:26
  a demand for
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: for their work and their knowledge.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: like just in New York right now,
• 45:33
  the number of Indian restaurants that are just doing so well
• 45:37
  and just branching out
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: in so many different directions is like unreal.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like the scene is incredible right now.
• 45:44
  And yeah,
• 45:46
  I'm sure everyone that's worked with you is,
• 45:49
  you know,
• 45:50
  has amazing opportunities.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we try.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's coming of age, isn't it, for Indian cuisine?
• 45:59
  It's the moment,
• 46:01
  it's Indian cuisine's moment,
• 46:02
  like I said,
• 46:04
  it's coming up in a big way.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Indian chefs are, of course, they're highly skilled.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm definitely not one of them.
• 46:13
  There are chefs who've worked all their life making these
• 46:17
  intricate,
• 46:18
  beautiful desserts.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: And, yeah...
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody can take those hours away from them.
• 46:27
  It's actually over years of training that they're able to
• 46:32
  produce such delicate
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: pastries and desserts.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with a tandoor chef.
• 46:37
  You really have to be very skilled and very experienced to kind
• 46:39
  of be able to control that.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of skill, a lot of experience.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, Indian food is tasty, it's delicious.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: That makes it very popular as well.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, Indian chefs are hardworking.
• 46:53
  I think there's a thirst and a need for Indian chefs to prove
• 46:57
  themselves in their cuisine.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes them more popular, top choice for employment.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: How has MasterChef impacted you?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Are you still a judge?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not this season, I wasn't, because I just had my baby girl.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, otherwise, yes.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have better appreciation for makeup.
• 47:28
  It was a very different experience for me,
• 47:29
  something I've never done before.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: I would have never done this if this was before COVID.
• 47:34
  I was so happy within the four walls of my restaurant and
• 47:40
  continually cooking every
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: day,
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: happy behind the stove.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I belonged, I felt, and that's what I always wanted to do.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: after being closed for so many,
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: for two,
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: two and a half years,
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: open and close and open and close again for the restaurant,
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to try something new.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to see what else is possible with cooking.
• 47:56
  And,
• 47:56
  you know,
• 47:57
  a restaurant seemed a very unstable place for me in that
• 48:02
  moment.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, oh, maybe there's more to explore here.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I, on a whim, did MasterChef.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: I learned a lot.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think watching creativity manifest itself in another field,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: that was always interesting to see as a chef.
• 48:19
  I was more interested in what was going on behind the camera
• 48:22
  than what was going on
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: in front of it.
• 48:24
  It's incredible to see so much talent come together to produce
• 48:29
  a show that we turn
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: on TV and we just kind of take it for granted.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was very interesting.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other side of the food side of things,
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: the contestants that I came across and I met there,
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: they were chefs or home cooks from small regions of India,
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: little parts of India.
• 48:49
  And they had so much pride in their cuisine and they were so
• 48:52
  excited to showcase what they...
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: had to offer,
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: what they grew up eating,
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: what is by no stretch of imagination mainstream even back home.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was that pride and that was really great to see.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Has it changed your relationship with India?
• 49:10
  Like in the sense that,
• 49:12
  you know,
• 49:12
  now suddenly when you're home,
• 49:14
  everyone recognizes you.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that happens.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that happens.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: That definitely happens.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: I can never get used to that.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, that is.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: I just imagine it's massive, like MasterChef India, just the reach of it.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just the sheer numbers.
• 49:32
  I mean,
• 49:32
  yeah,
• 49:33
  you're talking about point three,
• 49:35
  one point four billion people.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it reaches a big, big, big audience.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can't walk out.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely can't be seen in my pajamas outside of my home.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do that anymore.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: But no, there are all positives and negatives to everything.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the kind of voice this platform has given me,
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's...
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ever so grateful for that.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: So what's next?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: Any projects on the horizon that we should know about?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, very...
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right away, we're opening a restaurant in Mumbai.
• 50:14
  The second outlet of the Thai restaurant opens in Mumbai next
• 50:18
  month,
• 50:18
  Bank.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Bank.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's something that's happening.
• 50:24
  I'm trying to get more than four hours of sleep in a night,
• 50:28
  trying to reach the six-hour mark.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's high on the agenda.
• 50:34
  uh i think yeah i'm going to take this year to kind of learn to
• 50:37
  balance uh these
• 50:38
  two aspects of life a little bit better and hopefully we are
• 50:42
  back at it uh next
• 50:44
  year uh you know stronger and better well thank you so much for
• 50:48
  for talking to us
• 50:49
  it was it was a real pleasure getting to know you and the
• 50:52
  restaurant looks amazing
• 50:53
  i can't wait to one day you know come and visit it'd be so nice
• 50:58
  to have you with
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: any plans for bangkok
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's just so far for me, honestly.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love Asia so much.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've only been there a few times, but it's so far.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Even though I'm used to traveling eight hours all the time,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: but a full day of planes and time zones.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: When I go, I need to make it worth it.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you haven't been here in a long time, it seems like it, right?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, there's a lot going on here.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you don't have to try too hard to make it a successful trip.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know.
• 51:39
  It's like the scale of Asia,
• 51:40
  you know,
• 51:43
  is like I spent two months in India.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know, 20 years ago.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I still feel like I only scratched.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: What happened to you 20 years ago?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: This seems like a very exciting time in your life.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: I need to know.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was just, I was young.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was a freelance writer and just, you know, traveling the world.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I just kind of went everywhere.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then, yeah, and it was fun.
• 52:04
  And,
• 52:04
  but I don't have that freedom anymore to,
• 52:07
  you know,
• 52:08
  to just disappear for two months.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: I can understand that, but.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, whenever you do decide to.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's for you as well, Juliana.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever you guys do decide to be in this part of the world,
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: please,
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: I insist that you look us up.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let me know.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to have you both over.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think instead of just talking about this.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: It would be nice to feed you.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can listen to that.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to go search videos for it.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's something.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:42
  perfect uh garima thank you so much a real pleasure thank you
• 52:45
  thank you both thank
• 52:46
  you and yeah take care have a good day ahead thank you everyone
• 52:49
  for listening that
• 52:50
  was garima aurora from the restaurant ga in bangkok thailand
• 52:56
  check her out if
• 52:57
  you're ever there look for her on master chef india and keep
• 53:04
  your dreams open for
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_02: tandoor durian i'm gonna dream about it tonight and um
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't subscribed to the newsletter, please check us out.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: Go to newworlder.com or search for New Worlder on Substack.
• 53:19
  And a thank you to my friend Pat Buzzer for providing the music
• 53:22
  to the show.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: See you everyone later.