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Project Bluebook (2021 Update Version) · Conspiracy! The Show

0:00
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, don't skip this. It's not an ad. In fact,
0:04
Speaker 1: it's me Adam, host to this podcast you're about to
0:07
Speaker 1: listen to. Just a heads up that this is an
0:09
Speaker 1: older episode that was originally released back in November twenty eighteen.
0:13
Speaker 1: It's about Project Blue Book, which was one of the
0:16
Speaker 1: government's earliest efforts to investigate the UFO phenomenon. We're releasing
0:21
Speaker 1: it again now for a couple of reasons. One, the
0:24
Speaker 1: Pentagon finally released that UFO report the world has been
0:29
Speaker 1: waiting on, and oh man, let me tell you it
0:31
Speaker 1: is some boring bullshit. I was going to include an
0:34
Speaker 1: update about it in this episode because, if nothing else,
0:38
Speaker 1: it's interesting that nearly seventy years after the events of
0:42
Speaker 1: today's episode, we find ourselves in pretty much the exact
0:45
Speaker 1: same spot as we were back then in terms of UFOs.
0:49
Speaker 1: People are seeing a bunch. The government acknowledges that they
0:53
Speaker 1: don't know what they are, but they also assure us
0:55
Speaker 1: there's nothing to worry about. But honestly, there's not enough
0:58
Speaker 1: in that UFO report to even include an update about it.
1:02
Speaker 1: Go read it you'll see what I mean. It's like
1:04
Speaker 1: nine pages long. But we're also releasing this episode again
1:08
Speaker 1: because it ties into something we've been talking about a
1:11
Speaker 1: bunch on this show lately, which is that huge batch
1:14
Speaker 1: of UFO files the CIA released a few months back.
1:17
Speaker 1: I've been teasing an episode drawn from those files about
1:22
Speaker 1: a guy named Leon Davidson, whose name comes up a
1:25
Speaker 1: lot in those files. Because this Project Blue Book episode
1:28
Speaker 1: is so closely tied to what Leon Davidson was working on,
1:32
Speaker 1: I decided to just make what would have been a
1:34
Speaker 1: short solo episode about him into a series of updates
1:38
Speaker 1: that I'll drop in throughout this episode. You'll know one
1:41
Speaker 1: of those updates is coming when you hear this sound.
1:49
Speaker 1: And Hey, now that you've heard it, let's get to
1:51
Speaker 1: one of those updates right away, because I'm assuming you
1:54
Speaker 1: have a pretty big question right now. Who the hell
1:56
Speaker 1: is Leon Davidson. Well, the short answer is that he
1:58
Speaker 1: was a chemical engineer and a scientist. He worked for
2:01
Speaker 1: the government for a while as part of the Manhattan Project.
2:05
Speaker 1: Of course, his interest in flying saucers began in New
2:08
Speaker 1: Mexico in nineteen forty nine. There was a local epidemic
2:12
Speaker 1: of quote green fireballs end quote during the previous year,
2:17
Speaker 1: and that had led to the formation of one of
2:20
Speaker 1: the first flying saucer study groups, the Los Alamos Astrophysical Association.
2:25
Speaker 1: He says in a book that he published in nineteen
2:27
Speaker 1: sixty six, which I'll get into more a little bit later,
2:31
Speaker 1: that a private showing of the Tremonton films during this
2:35
Speaker 1: time convinced him that flying saucers must indeed be real.
2:39
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember, but one of the
2:41
Speaker 1: first CIAUFO files we did was about some of the
2:46
Speaker 1: more interesting sightings from those files, and the Tremonton UFOs.
2:51
Speaker 2: Come up in that episode.
2:52
Speaker 1: Anyway, while working in Washington in nineteen fifty two, he
2:55
Speaker 1: says he saw classified photos of a Navy guided missile
3:00
Speaker 1: which disproved to him all of the Air Force denials
3:04
Speaker 1: that the US had no devices which looked like some
3:08
Speaker 1: of the flying saucers that were being reported to the public.
3:11
Speaker 1: He also claims that while trying to clear a proposed
3:14
Speaker 1: article reporting this, he was paid a visit by a
3:17
Speaker 1: team of three men from the Office of Naval Intelligence,
3:21
Speaker 1: the Army Counter Intelligence Corps, and the Inspector of Naval
3:25
Speaker 1: Material and that THENI man wore black Incidentally, or the
3:30
Speaker 1: information of those readers who have heard about saucer researchers
3:33
Speaker 1: being silenced after a visit from three Men in Black. So,
3:37
Speaker 1: if you're earning yourself a visit from the Men in
3:39
Speaker 1: Black way back in the fifties, obviously you're a big
3:43
Speaker 1: thorn in the side of the government, and in this case,
3:45
Speaker 1: especially in the side of the CIA, because back when
3:48
Speaker 1: UFOs were first becoming a thing the government was interested in.
3:51
Speaker 1: If you look through those CIA files, you're going to
3:54
Speaker 1: see Leon Davidson's name a whole lot. So, in addition
3:58
Speaker 1: to Project blue Book, this episode is also about the
4:01
Speaker 1: exploits of Leon Davidson. And now that you're ready for
4:04
Speaker 1: all that, let's get to the show. Thanks, we love you.
4:17
Speaker 1: Welcome to Conspiracy the Show with your hosts Adam Todd
4:22
Speaker 1: Brown and Connor Mixed Pattern.
4:37
Speaker 2: All right, let's get started.
4:38
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. Because it's got
4:44
Speaker 1: the exclamation jaunty. If you listened to last week's episode,
4:50
Speaker 1: that means you're a fucking Patreon subscriber and a goddamn
4:53
Speaker 1: champion hero to the world. And if you did, you
4:57
Speaker 1: know my lineup from last week, my bevy of guests
5:02
Speaker 1: the same, that's right, the same as twas before Tis Again.
5:07
Speaker 3: That's a really impressive costume you just put on.
5:09
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I love the cape.
5:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's danger Van Gordon, Hi, Everyboddy, Olivia hid ours here?
5:15
Speaker 2: Hi, yes, HELLI that's me.
5:18
Speaker 3: Your last name also has a greeting in it, Yeah, exactly.
5:21
Speaker 2: And Revores Langley. Yeah.
5:25
Speaker 1: Last week we talked about Project sign which was one
5:28
Speaker 1: of the government's early studies into UFOs and aliens and
5:35
Speaker 1: things of the like, And this week we're talking about Project.
5:38
Speaker 2: Blue Book, which is the big.
5:41
Speaker 1: Government study into UFOs, and almost it's less of a
5:46
Speaker 1: government study into UFOs and more of a government campaign
5:50
Speaker 1: against the idea that UFOs exist. Yeah, especially towards the end,
5:54
Speaker 1: it really Yeah, it turns into a debunking campaign.
5:57
Speaker 4: Which is very interesting because it kind of it began
6:02
Speaker 4: as that, and then the people who got involved decided
6:04
Speaker 4: they wanted to make it not that, they were to
6:07
Speaker 4: make it more neutral, and then as the time went
6:10
Speaker 4: on and more bureaucratic people went in charge, then it
6:14
Speaker 4: ended up becoming more of that.
6:16
Speaker 2: Again.
6:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, the CIA gets involved at one point, which always
6:20
Speaker 1: a red flag.
6:21
Speaker 3: Yep.
6:22
Speaker 1: Uh So Project Blue Book, let's talk about it started
6:26
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty two and wasn't shut down till nineteen
6:29
Speaker 1: sixty nine. So this is one of those wacky fifties
6:33
Speaker 1: and sixties government programs that like, this is just what
6:36
Speaker 1: we were up to at the time, so and probably
6:38
Speaker 1: still now.
6:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, we're better at hiding it. I just love
6:42
Speaker 2: this shit. Yeah, much like.
6:44
Speaker 1: Back then we were like, are we gonna be the
6:46
Speaker 1: Nazis too? Like are we just gonna press everyone like
6:49
Speaker 1: it was?
6:50
Speaker 2: And then it turns out yeah, yeah, we sure we are.
6:53
Speaker 5: Yeah go, but we also kind of weirdly believe in
6:55
Speaker 5: magic a little bit. Yeah, there's a lot of quasi
6:59
Speaker 5: super now stuff involved here.
7:01
Speaker 2: Nazis believed to magic too, man.
7:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's why they were after the the Old
7:06
Speaker 5: Ten Commandments there.
7:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, seen hell Boy, Yeah, exactly. Constantine in the High Castle.
7:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep. Raiders, which and last Crusade.
7:17
Speaker 1: Project Blue Book had two goals, one to determine if
7:20
Speaker 1: you UFOs were a threat to national security and two
7:24
Speaker 1: to scientifically analyze UFO related data. And I said this
7:28
Speaker 1: in the last episode and I stand by it. Project
7:32
Speaker 1: Blue Book ends up being like what the EPA is now,
7:35
Speaker 1: where at one point we have actual scientists who maybe
7:39
Speaker 1: We don't know what they thought going into climate change research,
7:42
Speaker 1: but at one point they're all.
7:43
Speaker 2: Like, whoa, this is a problem.
7:45
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And the government that funds their budget was like, no,
7:50
Speaker 1: it's not how about you write.
7:52
Speaker 2: That a little different. Yeah, well make sure you stay funded.
7:56
Speaker 1: They collected and analyzed thousands of reports of UFOs. The
8:00
Speaker 1: name refers to the blue booklets used for testing at
8:03
Speaker 1: some colleges and universities.
8:05
Speaker 2: Uh. And and it was thought that his name for
8:08
Speaker 2: scantron machines. I think something like that.
8:11
Speaker 3: No, No, that's for essay writing. You if you had
8:14
Speaker 3: an essay to write, it would be in that very
8:16
Speaker 3: specific cubeer.
8:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:18
Speaker 4: Well, and there was also the theory that aliens were
8:21
Speaker 4: telling us how much cars were worth, and so that
8:24
Speaker 4: was all, oh, sure, sure, so there's this whole Yeah,
8:28
Speaker 4: the Kelly aliens.
8:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're from Mars. And uh.
8:34
Speaker 1: It was because study of UFOs at the time was
8:37
Speaker 1: and this is a quote as important as a college exam.
8:41
Speaker 2: What it's a little more high level than that.
8:45
Speaker 5: It's it's one of those where you're like, you know what,
8:47
Speaker 5: I actually didn't need to know.
8:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was called that way.
8:50
Speaker 5: It sounds like a bunch of fucking nerds named this
8:52
Speaker 5: probably was like blue book sounds mysterious and cool, and
8:56
Speaker 5: then you find out it's actually.
8:57
Speaker 2: A goddamn blue book from college.
8:59
Speaker 4: One of the things I love about this, though, is
9:01
Speaker 4: that most of the people involved are giant fucking nerves. Yeah, yeah,
9:06
Speaker 4: and right, that's how you kind it lends it a
9:08
Speaker 4: little bit of credibility because they're just like these stodgy,
9:12
Speaker 4: uptight like you know, you picture your classic fifties man
9:17
Speaker 4: with like the flat top right right, hornroom glass.
9:19
Speaker 3: That's a man's got a pocket protector exactly.
9:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like to me, that lends credibility to their findings.
9:27
Speaker 5: We'll call it Project you know whatever Louder Business Administration
9:31
Speaker 5: of College.
9:33
Speaker 1: Uh So, the first head of Project blue Book, interestingly enough,
9:37
Speaker 1: captain Edward J.
9:38
Speaker 2: Rippel.
9:39
Speaker 1: He wrote the nineteen fifty six book that first revealed
9:43
Speaker 1: the existence of Project sign and the estimate of the
9:47
Speaker 1: situation situation. He officially coined the term unidentified flying object. Okay,
9:55
Speaker 1: so he is really one of the pioneers.
9:58
Speaker 2: Yeahfo, he's in the books.
10:00
Speaker 1: I mean that's what he did. At Project blue Book.
10:03
Speaker 1: They basically analyzed all of these reports of UFOs. There
10:08
Speaker 1: were just thousands and thousands of them in the fifties
10:10
Speaker 1: and sixties, and he streamlined the manner in which they
10:14
Speaker 1: were reported to and by military officials because he wanted
10:18
Speaker 1: to alleviate that stigma that came with saying, hey, I
10:22
Speaker 1: saw UFO. As this project progresses, the government sort of
10:28
Speaker 1: turns that around and makes the project just about being
10:31
Speaker 1: able to stigmatize and discredit people who come out with
10:36
Speaker 1: reports like this.
10:37
Speaker 4: Yeah.
10:38
Speaker 1: He ordered the development of a standard questionnaire for UFO
10:41
Speaker 1: witnesses and commissioned the Btel Memorial Institute to create the
10:46
Speaker 1: questionnaire and computerize the data. Used all of this data
10:50
Speaker 1: to conduct a massive study of all Air Force UFO cases,
10:54
Speaker 1: completed in nineteen fifty four. It was called Project blue
10:57
Speaker 1: Book Special Report Number fourteen.
11:00
Speaker 2: I thought the first thirteen were good. Yeah, they were
11:03
Speaker 2: all right, a little dentse.
11:10
Speaker 1: All right, we have hit an important point on this journey.
11:14
Speaker 1: Blue Book Special Report number fourteen. Leon Davidson has a
11:18
Speaker 1: really interesting book floating around out there about Blue Book
11:22
Speaker 1: Special Report number fourteen. It is appropriately enough titled Flying Saucers,
11:27
Speaker 1: An Analysis of the Air Force Project blue Book Special
11:30
Speaker 1: Report Number fourteen. He first published this in nineteen fifty six.
11:33
Speaker 1: Third edition came out in nineteen sixty six.
11:36
Speaker 2: It's one of.
11:37
Speaker 1: Those books where if you try to buy it on Amazon,
11:39
Speaker 1: you're going to pay like five hundred dollars. But also
11:42
Speaker 1: you can just google around and find PDF versions of
11:45
Speaker 1: it everywhere. I linked to one in the show notes.
11:48
Speaker 1: Even in the book, he presents evidence to support his
11:51
Speaker 1: theory that the CIA was planning to use UFOs for
11:55
Speaker 1: psychological warfare purposes, and the first part of the book
12:00
Speaker 1: with the early press releases that the Air Force put
12:03
Speaker 1: out after Roswell. He talks about sending letters to the
12:06
Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense and a bunch of other groups and
12:10
Speaker 1: individuals in nineteen fifty three, where he pointed out that
12:14
Speaker 1: the Air Force's attitude at the time of kind of
12:17
Speaker 1: ridiculing and operationally ignoring flying saucer sightings could allow an
12:22
Speaker 1: enemy to send aircraft or missiles through our defenses pretty easily,
12:26
Speaker 1: just by putting enough flashing lights on them to cause
12:29
Speaker 1: them to be reported as flying saucers. And what's really
12:32
Speaker 1: interesting is that one of the replies he receives claims
12:36
Speaker 1: any research into UFOs ended in nineteen forty nine, which
12:40
Speaker 1: by now we all know is not even sort of true.
12:42
Speaker 1: And you can read all of these replies from the
12:45
Speaker 1: various government entities in the book. But then in nineteen
12:48
Speaker 1: fifty two he gets another reply saying that no, the
12:51
Speaker 1: Air Force is not stopped looking into UFOs, they just
12:54
Speaker 1: moved it from a special project to being a part
12:57
Speaker 1: of their regular activities. And then another reply later in
13:01
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two added a declaration that none of the
13:04
Speaker 1: things people were seeing were United States military projects. And
13:09
Speaker 1: that's a big point of emphasis in the first part
13:12
Speaker 1: of this book. That declaration or similar declarations come up
13:16
Speaker 1: in various documents presented in the book, and every time
13:19
Speaker 1: they do, the paragraph where they're contained is highlighted in
13:23
Speaker 1: some way, usually by surrounding it with brackets. And the
13:27
Speaker 1: reason he does that is to point out that later
13:30
Speaker 1: on the Air Force contradicts itself because there's another memo
13:35
Speaker 1: that they put out. Basically, at this point in history,
13:38
Speaker 1: the Air Force was putting out a yearly statement about
13:41
Speaker 1: UFOs and flying saucers, and at one point one of
13:44
Speaker 1: these statements says that they have no evidence that the
13:48
Speaker 1: US is being observed by machines from outer space or
13:53
Speaker 1: any foreign country.
13:54
Speaker 2: So that really leaves only one.
13:55
Speaker 1: Possibility, right, that some of these things people are seeing
13:59
Speaker 1: are from the UN the United States. That's definitely the
14:01
Speaker 1: conclusion Leon Davidson arrived at. Because the next thing that
14:04
Speaker 1: happens is that he sends a letter to the Security
14:07
Speaker 1: Review Branch at the Office of Public Information for security
14:11
Speaker 1: review and maybe a comment from the government about it.
14:14
Speaker 1: And the article was all about how the Air Force
14:16
Speaker 1: quietly admitted that some UFO sidings were actually the result
14:20
Speaker 1: of US military projects. And as mentioned previously, this is
14:24
Speaker 1: the point where he gets that men in black visit,
14:26
Speaker 1: and this article will come up again later. What's interesting
14:29
Speaker 1: about the book, though, is that he pairs a lot
14:32
Speaker 1: of the official statements from the Air Force right alongside
14:35
Speaker 1: other official documents that prove their lying case.
14:38
Speaker 2: In point, he gets a reply.
14:40
Speaker 1: Regarding that proposed article that reads, in part, we have
14:43
Speaker 1: nothing which spins through the air like a disc, pulsates, glows, demateializes,
14:48
Speaker 1: changes color, goes from a midair standstill to supersonic speed, soundlessly,
14:53
Speaker 1: glides through the sonic barrier, or turns at square angles
14:57
Speaker 1: in full sight, as some siders report. And he pairs
15:00
Speaker 1: that with a nineteen fifty three report about a new
15:03
Speaker 1: military project called the hell Roarer, which disappointingly is just
15:07
Speaker 1: a device used for taking nighttime aerial photos of enemy installations.
15:12
Speaker 2: But some features of the hell.
15:14
Speaker 1: Roarer torpedo, like twelve foot cylinder fuel is atomized magnesium
15:20
Speaker 1: powder which puts out an intense light of approximately ten
15:25
Speaker 1: million candle power. And it also says in that document
15:28
Speaker 1: that during test flights, nearby police and field offices were
15:32
Speaker 1: besieged with phone calls reporting UFOs. So while the Air
15:36
Speaker 1: Force was claiming that none of these sightings were related
15:39
Speaker 1: to military projects, that hell Roarer memo makes it pretty
15:43
Speaker 1: clear that they weren't being honest, and that is how
15:47
Speaker 1: Leon Davidson initially gets his suspicions around what's happening with
15:53
Speaker 1: UFOs raised. And all right, that's all for this update.
15:56
Speaker 1: I'll be back in a bit. For now, let's get
15:58
Speaker 1: back to the show. The thing about this guy, he
16:05
Speaker 1: took the job really seriously. If anyone got too like,
16:10
Speaker 1: he wanted an objective analysis of what was happening. Yeah,
16:14
Speaker 1: and he didn't want people who were kind of like
16:18
Speaker 1: with their preconceived notions either way, he didn't want people
16:21
Speaker 1: who were too insistent that UFOs were real, and he
16:25
Speaker 1: didn't want people who were too insistently that they were fake.
16:29
Speaker 5: And if anyone last time, you don't want too many molders,
16:31
Speaker 5: you don't want too many scholars.
16:33
Speaker 2: Let's get a whole team of skinners, right exactly.
16:35
Speaker 4: And they're all and also people from varying different viewpoints,
16:39
Speaker 4: like people who might lean one way or the other
16:42
Speaker 4: but aren't letting it effect there just right.
16:46
Speaker 2: Uh.
16:46
Speaker 1: He issued regular press releases and monthly classified reports. And
16:53
Speaker 1: like we said, possibly the last government official who looked
16:56
Speaker 1: into UFOs in any sort of serious man, did I.
17:00
Speaker 5: Imagine or is there a Trump thing with UFOs? Like
17:04
Speaker 5: when he got in there, he was like he said
17:06
Speaker 5: something very direct about it. He's like, if there's UFOs,
17:08
Speaker 5: I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna get to the book.
17:10
Speaker 5: It wasn't Clinton who said that. Well, I know Clinton
17:12
Speaker 5: did because x foles was huge. He was just riding
17:14
Speaker 5: the times. But it's sort of God, I think Trump
17:16
Speaker 5: when he's think of independence day oh am, I oh okay.
17:21
Speaker 5: Sarah Sanders won't say whether Trump believes in UFOs. What
17:24
Speaker 5: Castle was asking about this, who was like, you know what,
17:28
Speaker 5: we need to take it take a brief.
17:29
Speaker 2: Time wars in the pressure. That's true. They should get
17:33
Speaker 2: that out of the way day one.
17:35
Speaker 1: Just let all the fringe sites come in and be
17:37
Speaker 1: like UFOs, let's hear it.
17:41
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the Robertson panel.
17:44
Speaker 1: This is this is the point where the government starts
17:47
Speaker 1: sort of turning on Project Blue Book, where they they're
17:52
Speaker 1: researching this from a not skeptical and not to believing,
17:57
Speaker 1: like sort of like a centrist sort of viewpoint on UFOs.
18:01
Speaker 1: And this incident happens in July nineteen fifty two. It's
18:05
Speaker 1: one of the more famous UFO incidents where there's just
18:08
Speaker 1: all of these radar and visual sightings of unidentified flying
18:14
Speaker 1: objects around Washington, d C.
18:16
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, that's so awesome.
18:18
Speaker 5: There's seven of them, right, yeah, they're flying all over
18:20
Speaker 5: the Capitol and shit fucking rules.
18:22
Speaker 1: And that happens in nineteen fifty two, and this led
18:29
Speaker 1: the CIA so fucking red flag alert right there led
18:33
Speaker 1: the CIA to establish a panel of scienceists headed by
18:37
Speaker 1: doctor H. P. Robertson, a physicist at the California Institute
18:41
Speaker 1: of Technology. They first met in January nineteen fifty three.
18:45
Speaker 1: This part blows my fucking mind. They spent twelve hours
18:50
Speaker 1: reviewing six years of data before concluding that most UFO
18:55
Speaker 1: reports had real world explanations and that all of them
18:59
Speaker 1: could be explained with a little more research, but that
19:02
Speaker 1: doing that research wasn't that important.
19:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's not real, dude. Twelve hours.
19:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, that feels like the CIA saying, hey, will you
19:11
Speaker 1: go in and fucking break this up?
19:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, science this and tell us that it's fake. Yeah, exactly, danger.
19:19
Speaker 2: What do you think? Yeah, do you think? Why?
19:24
Speaker 1: Why I'm gonna edit out when you plug your Patreon
19:31
Speaker 1: at the end.
19:35
Speaker 2: Oh my god?
19:36
Speaker 3: Okay, all right. In college, like I always thought that
19:40
Speaker 3: like crop circles were really pretty, Like those are really cool.
19:43
Speaker 3: What do they come from? And I looked into it
19:45
Speaker 3: and like it's just it's just two kids with a
19:47
Speaker 3: planket wood and some string, right, and you can just
19:49
Speaker 3: really impressive stuff with that. So I was like, well,
19:51
Speaker 3: that sounds dumb. That's what I looked into when I
19:54
Speaker 3: saw it. But I came across this other thing called
19:56
Speaker 3: fairy circles, which was something that was reported a lot
20:00
Speaker 3: in like the Middle Ages into you know, the the
20:03
Speaker 3: early twentieth century or so, and that's like a little
20:07
Speaker 3: spot in a field that was mysteriously flattened, and that's
20:10
Speaker 3: what eventually became. You know, people took that idea and
20:12
Speaker 3: Ryan with him and started doing like these crop circle stuff.
20:15
Speaker 3: But like that got me to this book called and
20:18
Speaker 3: I don't know if you'll be able to find this
20:19
Speaker 3: because it was hard to find back in the day,
20:21
Speaker 3: but Amazon's pretty you know, Passport to Magonia. Terrible title
20:26
Speaker 3: for a very very interesting book. The whole thesis is
20:30
Speaker 3: human beings have been seeing visitors throughout our entire history. Yeah,
20:36
Speaker 3: those visitors have always matched our technological advancement. So like Olivia,
20:44
Speaker 3: I think you mentioned in the in the the last episode,
20:46
Speaker 3: you know, back in the day, they saw chariots and
20:48
Speaker 3: the gods coming down on chariots and there'd be great
20:51
Speaker 3: wheels of fire in the sky and then like cart wheels,
20:54
Speaker 3: and then they'd say, all right, there was these men
20:56
Speaker 3: and beasts and on carts flying through the air. I
20:59
Speaker 3: remember they The book opens with an example of finding
21:04
Speaker 3: this giant stone lid to you know, a sarcophagasar coffin
21:11
Speaker 3: in Latin America, and like, looking at it, it looks
21:14
Speaker 3: like a meso American from the you know, fourteen hundreds
21:20
Speaker 3: in the thirteenth century or whatever it is is operating
21:23
Speaker 3: a spaceship.
21:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen that.
21:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's just because they didn't know what they
21:27
Speaker 3: were looking at. If you turn it from the side,
21:28
Speaker 3: you realize that, oh no, no, this this figure is
21:33
Speaker 3: being berthed from the ground and there's all this like
21:35
Speaker 3: crazy like lava effects, and that's what people were misinterpreting
21:38
Speaker 3: as he's operating this spaceship. But I mean, like, so that's.
21:43
Speaker 2: All they were just seeing a god birthing from a volcano. Sure,
21:46
Speaker 2: nothing weird.
21:47
Speaker 3: No, no, And it's a really it's a really compelling image.
21:50
Speaker 3: But the book then goes on to talk about how
21:52
Speaker 3: like no human beings see visitors. There's something in our minds.
21:55
Speaker 3: It's I'm sure it's connected to our propensity to faith,
21:59
Speaker 3: you know, because people visitations from higher powers, and I
22:03
Speaker 3: feel like a lot of of UFOs, a lot of
22:08
Speaker 3: alien visitation comes from that exact same place. Because it
22:11
Speaker 3: used to be fairies.
22:12
Speaker 2: Baby volcano gods.
22:13
Speaker 3: It could be a baby volcano guide who knows.
22:16
Speaker 2: Well.
22:17
Speaker 5: It reminds me of the airships of the early nineteen hundreds.
22:21
Speaker 2: Do you guys know about the airships.
22:23
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like there's a place in Texas that reported like
22:26
Speaker 5: a big airship like crashed and they buried the the
22:30
Speaker 5: beings and the town cemetery. But that but similar to
22:33
Speaker 5: what you were talking about, where it reflects the technology
22:36
Speaker 5: or whatever, and unfortunately that era gave us a steampunk
22:40
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, ah, there we go.
22:41
Speaker 3: That's possible result.
22:43
Speaker 4: I would say, just speaking to that aspect of the
22:48
Speaker 4: of the descriptions of extraterrestrial beings, craft and things matching
22:53
Speaker 4: the technology of the time, I think that could be
22:57
Speaker 4: just as easily attributed. And I'm pretty in the middle
23:01
Speaker 4: about most of UFO sightings and that sort of thing.
23:04
Speaker 4: There's a few that have been really compelling, and there's
23:06
Speaker 4: a few that a lot more.
23:09
Speaker 2: That have not been.
23:10
Speaker 3: I think that's why.
23:12
Speaker 4: But like exactly, but when it comes to when it
23:15
Speaker 4: comes to that specific point, I would I would say
23:18
Speaker 4: it's just as likely that perhaps it's just them using
23:21
Speaker 4: the metaphors that they have available to them at.
23:24
Speaker 2: The time, Like flying saucers.
23:26
Speaker 4: You wouldn't imagine that it's literally just a saucer in
23:29
Speaker 4: the sky. It's this is the shape that were or
23:32
Speaker 4: the you know, the movement pattern or whatever that we're
23:35
Speaker 4: associating with it, and I feel like that. I mean,
23:39
Speaker 4: sure it could be that it is this ingering, subconscious thing,
23:44
Speaker 4: but it could also be a metaphor. And I like
23:47
Speaker 4: so many of those texts, especially the religious ones, are
23:50
Speaker 4: buried under piles and piles of metaphors.
23:52
Speaker 2: Right.
23:52
Speaker 1: My problem with the oh they just didn't know what
23:55
Speaker 1: they were looking at like that it requires all of
23:59
Speaker 1: these people to be really primitive and stupid, which they
24:01
Speaker 1: were just.
24:02
Speaker 2: In some extent.
24:03
Speaker 3: But but but they also like.
24:04
Speaker 2: Had maps of the solar system.
24:06
Speaker 3: Yeah how I mean, if you study the sky long enough,
24:10
Speaker 3: you'll see the heavenly bodies moving around as they should.
24:12
Speaker 2: But you're not gonna get detailed.
24:14
Speaker 4: Well that way I would actually I would say that
24:19
Speaker 4: that would be giving ancient astronomers a little too little credit.
24:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's always kind of my thing.
24:25
Speaker 3: What the ancient they have to do at the time
24:27
Speaker 3: was look up and be like, no, that.
24:29
Speaker 5: Moved, like so much of the ancient aliens. Thing to
24:31
Speaker 5: me is kind of disrespectful to ancient cultures because it's like, oh,
24:34
Speaker 5: how could these Egyptians build this pyramid?
24:37
Speaker 2: Like took a long, fun time, but they managed.
24:40
Speaker 1: When you look at some of that, not just the Pyramids,
24:43
Speaker 1: but there are some areas where the stone work is ship.
24:46
Speaker 4: We can't do today, like, yes, but that doesn't mean
24:48
Speaker 4: that they weren't able to do it then, right.
24:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it does, we don't, but it does.
24:53
Speaker 1: Imply that they had some sort of advanced machinery that
24:56
Speaker 1: we're not familiar.
24:57
Speaker 4: But also at the same time, we've also lost untold
25:01
Speaker 4: numbers of documents.
25:03
Speaker 2: Talk about Library of elop I mean.
25:05
Speaker 4: And then you know, a similar thing that I don't
25:08
Speaker 4: think anyone really tries to associate with aliens is the
25:11
Speaker 4: concept of Damascus steel, which is one of the strongest
25:15
Speaker 4: metals that humans have ever created, and no one knows
25:18
Speaker 4: how to make it. No one knows still to this day,
25:21
Speaker 4: because the formula was lost in some library, right, you know,
25:25
Speaker 4: millennia ago.
25:27
Speaker 2: Talk about things like the Greek Fire.
25:30
Speaker 3: I don't disbelieve any person that says I saw this thing.
25:34
Speaker 3: I think they absolutely saw what they what they claimed
25:37
Speaker 3: to see. But I think that it's entirely possible that
25:41
Speaker 3: they saw something that their mind generated or their mind
25:46
Speaker 3: didn't quite understand. And that's not me making a judgment.
25:49
Speaker 3: Clon sing like they're crazy because I think the human
25:52
Speaker 3: brain is set up to receive visions from other places
25:58
Speaker 3: or from like that's how we you know, that's where
26:02
Speaker 3: our instinct for religion comes from. You know, we want
26:05
Speaker 3: to hear a higher power. And some of this is
26:09
Speaker 3: confirmation bias where people, you know, they can look at
26:11
Speaker 3: into popular culture, they see all flying saucers are a thing,
26:15
Speaker 3: and they might see something they don't understand. But I mean,
26:19
Speaker 3: at the same time, yeah, like that this book Passport
26:21
Speaker 3: to Magonia, which I can wholeheartedly recommend everybody in this room.
26:24
Speaker 3: It's really fascinating. It just talking about how people can
26:31
Speaker 3: see things without being crazy. Uh, and if they don't
26:36
Speaker 3: understand what they're seeing, the mind makes up for that, right.
26:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, this definitely and yeah, and that's a valid phenomenon.
26:44
Speaker 4: And I think that's mythology approach, and I think that
26:49
Speaker 4: definitely explains a large number of UFO sightings. But I
26:53
Speaker 4: think the ones that make UFOs so interesting are the
26:57
Speaker 4: ones where that doesn't apply as easily, the things where
27:01
Speaker 4: there are multiple confirmed witnesses, the things that we'll be
27:03
Speaker 4: talking about with regards to Wretch Blue Book, where there
27:06
Speaker 4: are you know, credible witnesses, multiple credible witnesses, technological confirmation,
27:12
Speaker 4: and these sorts of things that confirmed that there was
27:15
Speaker 4: a phenomenon. We may it may be aliens, it may not,
27:19
Speaker 4: but there was a thing there. Yeah, and we can
27:22
Speaker 4: prove that. Yeah, we just don't know what it was.
27:25
Speaker 1: And I just I feel like the explanation too many
27:28
Speaker 1: times comes down to, oh, yes, a dozen people saw it,
27:31
Speaker 1: but none of them knew what they were seeing.
27:33
Speaker 2: Right, it was mass hysteria.
27:35
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know, I feel like it can't
27:37
Speaker 1: always be mass hysteria.
27:39
Speaker 2: That's that's insane.
27:48
Speaker 1: So let's get back to this fucking the Robertson panel,
27:53
Speaker 1: because this is what this is, like the first step
27:55
Speaker 1: in undoing Project Blue Book, right, which up to this
27:58
Speaker 1: point had been legitimately looking into these things in a
28:02
Speaker 1: scientific way. They, like I said, they review six years
28:06
Speaker 1: of data for twelve hours, and they come out with
28:09
Speaker 1: this final report that says all of these can be
28:13
Speaker 1: explained except for the ones that we can explain, which
28:16
Speaker 1: we could explain if we felt like it. Yeah, and
28:21
Speaker 1: they suggest that the Air Force gives up on investigating
28:23
Speaker 1: claims and instead focuses on a debunking campaign to lessen
28:29
Speaker 1: public interest. They suggested debunkery, which is such a great word. Ooh,
28:34
Speaker 1: that's fine, through the mass media, including Walt Disney productions,
28:38
Speaker 1: and using psychologists, astronomers, and celebrities to ridicule the phenomenon
28:43
Speaker 1: and put forth prosaic or real world explanations.
28:47
Speaker 2: By the way, the animation on you Didn't see Anything
28:50
Speaker 2: dipshit is just amazing weirdly racist.
28:55
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then the follow up you Stupid Rube that
28:57
Speaker 5: was swamp Gas some of.
29:00
Speaker 2: Disney's finest work.
29:01
Speaker 1: It also recommended that civilian UFO groups quote should be
29:05
Speaker 1: watched because of the potentially great influence on mass thinking.
29:09
Speaker 1: That seems like a conflict to me, where they're like, yeah,
29:13
Speaker 1: none of this matters.
29:14
Speaker 2: But also keep an eye on the people who are
29:16
Speaker 2: spreading this. Yeah.
29:19
Speaker 5: Also the people most concerned with with mass thinking try
29:23
Speaker 5: to get rid of other people.
29:26
Speaker 3: I no, no notice it. We can do that.
29:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's our things bread.
29:31
Speaker 3: It is very America in the fifties of We're gonna
29:34
Speaker 3: have nuclear bombs and no one else can.
29:36
Speaker 2: So yeah, for sure.
29:38
Speaker 4: I feel like it's kind of wishful thinking though, to
29:41
Speaker 4: think that UFO groups could have an influence on mass
29:45
Speaker 4: thinking because they've never really.
29:48
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it was like that shit when you know
29:50
Speaker 5: they sit like uh, you know, CIA or FBI or
29:54
Speaker 5: somebody to investigate like peace groups in San Francisco, and
29:57
Speaker 5: it was like sixty year old women baking brownie right,
29:59
Speaker 5: like talking about how Iraq war was a bad idea,
30:03
Speaker 5: Like was it really necessary to send in the fucking
30:05
Speaker 5: fash for this?
30:07
Speaker 1: The only the only thing that I think would make
30:10
Speaker 1: a difference then is people just didn't have.
30:13
Speaker 2: As much to do back then.
30:15
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like there was like there were like one
30:18
Speaker 1: or two TV channels, like the three channels, the radio.
30:21
Speaker 2: Like you didn't make some deleton again all this shit
30:24
Speaker 2: that we have.
30:24
Speaker 1: So like a UFO group, that's a thing that could
30:27
Speaker 1: probably pick up fifty sixty thousand members, I mean grow.
30:31
Speaker 4: Yeah.
30:32
Speaker 1: So in December nineteen fifty three, a Joint Army Navy
30:36
Speaker 1: Air Force Regulation one forty six made it a crime
30:40
Speaker 1: for military personnel to discuss classified UFO reports with unauthorized persons.
30:46
Speaker 1: Violators faced up to two years in prison and or
30:49
Speaker 1: fines of up to ten thousand dollars. And in nineteen
30:53
Speaker 1: fifty three, also the Air Force issued Regulation two hundred
30:56
Speaker 1: dash two, ordering air Base officers to publicly discuss US
31:00
Speaker 1: incidents only if they were judged to have been solved,
31:04
Speaker 1: and to classify all the unsolved cases to keep them
31:07
Speaker 1: out of the public eye.
31:13
Speaker 2: Update time.
31:15
Speaker 1: So the report that we're talking about here is that
31:17
Speaker 1: same nineteen fifty three UFO report that we've mentioned on
31:21
Speaker 1: all of the CIA UFO episodes so far. It's one
31:25
Speaker 1: of the main points of interest for Leon Davidson, and
31:28
Speaker 1: fittingly enough, there's a whole section in his book that
31:31
Speaker 1: deals with this report. He and eventually even the Air
31:34
Speaker 1: Force fought to have it fully declassified. For the longest time,
31:38
Speaker 1: two paragraphs about how UFOs could be used as false
31:41
Speaker 1: flag attacks for psychological warfare purposes were classified and omitted
31:47
Speaker 1: from this report, and somehow Davidson got wind of the
31:50
Speaker 1: fact that that was what was in those omitted paragraphs.
31:54
Speaker 1: This is a panel that was convened by the CIA.
31:57
Speaker 1: They requested it and funded it, but by the timeless
32:00
Speaker 1: report was due to come out, they and the panel
32:03
Speaker 1: members both decided there should be no mention that the
32:06
Speaker 1: CIA was involved at all, and that changed in nineteen
32:09
Speaker 1: sixty six when one of the panel members appeared on
32:12
Speaker 1: CBS and named the CIA as the agency that funded
32:16
Speaker 1: the panel's activities, and I'm sure that guy's career was
32:19
Speaker 1: a total cake walk from that point on. So in
32:22
Speaker 1: this part of the book, Davidson pays special attention to
32:25
Speaker 1: any sections that show the CIA funded this report to
32:29
Speaker 1: quote prepare for a test program to see why people
32:33
Speaker 1: reacted strongly to flying saucer sightings end quote. He also
32:38
Speaker 1: points to the fact that the CIA failed to include
32:40
Speaker 1: the National Academy of Sciences in this panel as evidence
32:44
Speaker 1: that the agency didn't want an actual scientific study of
32:47
Speaker 1: flying saucers, which is a good point because government policy,
32:52
Speaker 1: at least at the time, kind of dictated that you
32:55
Speaker 1: had to get the National Academy of Sciences involved in
32:58
Speaker 1: an actual scientific study. And also that the report was
33:02
Speaker 1: completely classified at first is pretty sketch. A declassified version
33:07
Speaker 1: of the report was released in nineteen fifty eight, and
33:09
Speaker 1: that's how it initially came to Davidson's attention. So from
33:12
Speaker 1: there he starts firing off letters to various government agencies
33:16
Speaker 1: to find out what they know about this panel, and
33:19
Speaker 1: he gets some really interesting replies. One of the most
33:21
Speaker 1: interesting comes from Project Bluebook member Edward J. Repelt, who
33:26
Speaker 1: we've been talking about a bunch on this episode, and
33:28
Speaker 1: his reply kind of confirms Davidson's suspicions about why the
33:33
Speaker 1: panel was started. Here's a sort of creepy quote from
33:36
Speaker 1: the letter he received from Edward Repelt. The panel's major
33:40
Speaker 1: reason for recommending that the UFO investigation program be expanded,
33:44
Speaker 1: I understood from the discussion was to learn why so
33:48
Speaker 1: called experienced people went into a tizzy whenever a UFO
33:52
Speaker 1: was reported. I do not care to discuss this aspect further,
33:56
Speaker 1: but I believe you can realize the problem and why
33:59
Speaker 1: I didn't pursue the point in my book. Huh, I
34:03
Speaker 1: wonder what that meant. There's also a four page letter
34:06
Speaker 1: from US Air Force Major Lawrence Tacker that confirms the
34:10
Speaker 1: redacted portion of the panel report deals not with UFOs
34:14
Speaker 1: but with intelligence matters and national security. And then there's
34:18
Speaker 1: another interesting correspondence that comes in the form of a
34:22
Speaker 1: letter from a scientist who wasn't an official part of
34:25
Speaker 1: the panel, but who did attend a briefing session in
34:28
Speaker 1: the early days of the convening of that panel. He
34:31
Speaker 1: claims he had a conversation in that briefing where he
34:33
Speaker 1: stated his belief that what people were seeing in the
34:36
Speaker 1: skies were just mirages or natural phenomena, leading to this
34:40
Speaker 1: exchange with an unnamed CIA creep. This first line is
34:45
Speaker 1: said CIA Creep, responding to the suggestion that what people
34:50
Speaker 1: were seeing might just be mirages. Suppose that we granted
34:53
Speaker 1: for a moment that you are correct. Doesn't it occur
34:56
Speaker 1: to you that we might be able to use this
34:58
Speaker 1: information in reverse? You mean as a countermeasure exactly?
35:03
Speaker 2: You mean you would like.
35:04
Speaker 1: To use this phenomenon, say, to produce an image of
35:08
Speaker 1: Christ over the Kremlin. Yes, that's an excellent example. End
35:13
Speaker 1: of conversation. So, if you're wondering what got it in
35:16
Speaker 1: Leon Davidson's head that the CIA might be up to
35:20
Speaker 1: something fishy when it came to this UFO panel is
35:23
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight, replies go a long way toward explaining that,
35:27
Speaker 1: all right, let's get back to the episode.
35:34
Speaker 2: So this really.
35:35
Speaker 1: Doesn't sound like there's nothing to worry about, right, None
35:39
Speaker 1: of this makes it seem like the government honestly believes
35:43
Speaker 1: there's nothing here, nothing that.
35:44
Speaker 2: The government would worry about. Because that's right.
35:47
Speaker 4: I don't necessarily think that, like your average American would
35:50
Speaker 4: perceive a UFOs as a threat. But like the government is,
35:54
Speaker 4: especially in the fifties, is keyed up to any type
35:59
Speaker 4: of external right.
36:01
Speaker 1: So the important UFO cases, which I don't know how
36:06
Speaker 1: they defined that at the time, because again we're talking
36:09
Speaker 1: about they're saying, well, no, let's start like debunking this,
36:13
Speaker 1: but also there's important UFO cases. Yeah, Like would there
36:16
Speaker 1: be important UFO cases if they were so convinced that
36:20
Speaker 1: UFOs weren't a thing, right, And they start siphoning the
36:25
Speaker 1: more high profile cases away from Project blue Book. So
36:29
Speaker 1: then everything Project blue Book gets to investigate is like
36:32
Speaker 1: the bullshit where it's just like weather balloons and things.
36:36
Speaker 5: That's kind of where I would want to come in
36:38
Speaker 5: and work for Project blue Book. You know, investigating real
36:41
Speaker 5: shit sounds hard, but I would love to just go
36:43
Speaker 5: interview people who's like, I fucking seen three of them,
36:46
Speaker 5: all right, they they was flying, then they crashed and
36:50
Speaker 5: then I mean.
36:51
Speaker 2: Was was I drunk? Yeas did my warmer and leave? Yes?
36:56
Speaker 1: But I say, you know that's what I want, Yeah,
36:59
Speaker 1: interview those Yeah, you maybe wouldn't want to see the
37:01
Speaker 1: real stuff, no, because then you're gonna be like, fuck,
37:04
Speaker 1: we're doomed, aren't we.
37:05
Speaker 2: Yeah? No one can explain this.
37:07
Speaker 1: It'd be like getting that job at Facebook where you
37:10
Speaker 1: have to review images that have been reported.
37:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh I want that job, dude. There have been articles.
37:17
Speaker 1: There's actually someone filed a lawsuit against Facebook because Facebook
37:22
Speaker 1: was using contractors to do those jobs and they were
37:26
Speaker 1: basically bringing people.
37:27
Speaker 2: It's like a blackwater guy with like wrap around Oakley's
37:30
Speaker 2: just like, fuck, yeah, bro, that is racist.
37:32
Speaker 1: They were bringing people in, but it's not the racist shit.
37:35
Speaker 1: They were bringing people in for like six months at
37:37
Speaker 1: a time, and their entire job for six months was
37:41
Speaker 1: to look at fucking beheadings and best Reality and child
37:45
Speaker 1: porn and all of this. Really Facebook, yes, they're the
37:50
Speaker 1: people who when someone posts this shit they go and
37:52
Speaker 1: take it down. But that also means your job is
37:55
Speaker 1: seeing all of this day after day and you get
37:59
Speaker 1: done with that, and like a lot of these people
38:01
Speaker 1: have PTSD.
38:02
Speaker 5: We'll see similar to Project Blue Book, Like I don't
38:04
Speaker 5: want to see that exactly. I want to see where
38:07
Speaker 5: it was just like, well that bitch thinks she's hot. Shit,
38:10
Speaker 5: I'm gonna.
38:10
Speaker 2: Report her because fuck her.
38:12
Speaker 5: And it's just you know, like the weird reports is
38:14
Speaker 5: do you want to be like the judge judy of it.
38:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, where it's like, all.
38:17
Speaker 5: Right, you two just need to work it out, all right,
38:19
Speaker 5: this is a ridiculous case.
38:20
Speaker 2: Don't piss on my leer, tell me it's raining. So yeah.
38:24
Speaker 1: By doing all of this, the Robertson Panel basically they
38:29
Speaker 1: undercut Project blue Book and basically ended any meaningful investigation
38:34
Speaker 1: that they could do so eventually repel requests for reassignment
38:39
Speaker 1: and for the remainder of the Project blue Book was
38:43
Speaker 1: headed by directors who either just vehemently disagreed with the
38:48
Speaker 1: idea that UFOs existed, or if they did maybe feel
38:52
Speaker 1: like they were on board with it, the government would
38:54
Speaker 1: just cut their funding. So again, it's a lot like
38:57
Speaker 1: the EPA, whereas if you're in charge and you think
39:02
Speaker 1: global warming is a hoax, the government's gonna support you
39:05
Speaker 1: because our current administration wants global warming to be a hoax. Right,
39:09
Speaker 1: But they also went to the EPA and we're like,
39:11
Speaker 1: don't write about global warming, just like the CDC can't
39:15
Speaker 1: write about gun violence. Yeah, Like they're not allowed to
39:18
Speaker 1: do any studies into gun violence. And that's our government,
39:22
Speaker 1: that is right. No, we'll take your money away if
39:24
Speaker 1: you look into gun.
39:25
Speaker 5: Violence, right, which is fucked because in both cases, the
39:28
Speaker 5: army is doing both of those things, and we're preparing
39:31
Speaker 5: actively for when the seas rise and no one has
39:34
Speaker 5: anywhere to go, you know. Yeah, and also they're looking into, uh,
39:38
Speaker 5: you know how post traumatic stress can like affect people
39:41
Speaker 5: who go fucking nuts and write shoot up at fucking
39:44
Speaker 5: school because it happened to them at Fort Hood.
39:46
Speaker 2: So you can't, you know. It's it's one of those
39:48
Speaker 2: things where if.
39:49
Speaker 1: You want to dig into a juicy conspiracy, look into mefloquin.
39:53
Speaker 2: It is the drug. Yeah, we did an episode about it.
39:56
Speaker 2: If you're gonna say, we did a bunch of it.
39:58
Speaker 1: It's always creat I'm malaria drug that for starters. They
40:03
Speaker 1: used it to torture people at Guantanamo Bay because it
40:06
Speaker 1: gives you like wild hair, hallucinations and things, Oh my god.
40:11
Speaker 1: But it also has been implicated in a lot of
40:14
Speaker 1: like army and military related mass shootings and shit because
40:18
Speaker 1: people have to take it when they're going somewhere that
40:21
Speaker 1: might have malaria and you have to take like you
40:24
Speaker 1: have to keep taking it, and it's not meant to
40:26
Speaker 1: be taken that way.
40:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, it drives people insane.
40:29
Speaker 5: See I just I missed the British way of dealing
40:31
Speaker 5: with malaria, which was inventing the gen and tonic did
40:34
Speaker 5: that work?
40:35
Speaker 2: Sort of.
40:37
Speaker 1: Repel requested reassignment and so by the time Project blue
40:43
Speaker 1: Book Special Report number fourteen comes out, he's already gone.
40:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this.
40:49
Speaker 1: Is a special Report number fourteen. It was a massive
40:53
Speaker 1: statistical analysis of the Blue Book cases completed in nineteen
40:57
Speaker 1: fifty four. They divided all of the reports of UFOs
41:01
Speaker 1: into categories nons, unknowns, and insufficient information. They broke down
41:07
Speaker 1: the nones and unknowns into four categories of quality, from
41:11
Speaker 1: poor to excellent. And the criteria for unknowns was especially
41:17
Speaker 1: stringent because they didn't want to go public and say,
41:20
Speaker 1: we don't know what this is if they could explain
41:23
Speaker 1: it obviously, right, because that would undermine your credibility. Thirty
41:26
Speaker 1: eight percent were conclusively identified, while thirty one percent were
41:29
Speaker 1: still doubtfully explained. Nine percent fell into insufficient information. About
41:34
Speaker 1: twenty two percent were deemed unknown. And that number is important, Yeah,
41:38
Speaker 1: because when the Air Force reports on this later, they
41:42
Speaker 1: changed that number to something like three.
41:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like two or three percent, which.
41:47
Speaker 1: There's no reason to do that unless you're weird, trying
41:52
Speaker 1: to divert people's attention from something.
41:55
Speaker 4: Every every public statement that they've made about those actual
41:59
Speaker 4: numbers has been like, not what's in the actual report, right,
42:02
Speaker 4: which is weird, considering very weird, Like that's the whole
42:06
Speaker 4: thing about this report.
42:08
Speaker 1: So in the known category, eighty six percent of the
42:11
Speaker 1: knownes where aircraft balloons or had astronomical explanations. Only one
42:15
Speaker 1: point five percent of all cases were judged to be
42:18
Speaker 1: psychological or crack pot cases. Which that's interesting to me too,
42:22
Speaker 1: because that's like the go to argument is it's all
42:25
Speaker 1: this fucking crazy person saw a star, yeah, and we
42:29
Speaker 1: don't have to listen to them. The higher the quality
42:32
Speaker 1: of the case, the more likely it was to be
42:34
Speaker 1: classified as unknown, which is.
42:36
Speaker 2: Another really interesting statistic. Right.
42:38
Speaker 1: What they're basically saying there is the more witnesses to
42:42
Speaker 1: these things there are, the less we know about them,
42:46
Speaker 1: which that that kind of makes the argument that the
42:51
Speaker 1: ones we don't know about that also happen to have
42:54
Speaker 1: like the most witnesses in the best details.
42:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, so what is that that's also the ones that
43:00
Speaker 4: they that's the number that they the Air Force constantly
43:04
Speaker 4: plays down and severely minimizes.
43:06
Speaker 5: So yeah, it's like, oh, a bunch of priests and
43:10
Speaker 5: cops and and judges saw an alien to a backflip
43:14
Speaker 5: off the high dive.
43:15
Speaker 2: No need to investigate that.
43:17
Speaker 1: So what's really crazy about this report is those statistics
43:22
Speaker 1: don't point to oh, there's nothing here, right, Like, there's
43:25
Speaker 1: a lot of unknowns that they like they looked into
43:29
Speaker 1: very seriously and were never able to come up with
43:32
Speaker 1: an explanation for it. But then the summary section of
43:35
Speaker 1: this report, which again was released after repell left, said
43:39
Speaker 1: it was quote highly improbable that any of the reports
43:42
Speaker 1: of the unidentified aerial objects represent observations of technological developments
43:48
Speaker 1: outside the range of present day knowledge.
43:52
Speaker 2: And what a lot of.
43:52
Speaker 1: Researchers have pointed out is that their summary in their
43:56
Speaker 1: final conclusion doesn't match their research, right, as if either
44:01
Speaker 1: they didn't want to accept what they had found, like
44:03
Speaker 1: that shit, this is extraterrestrial, or that someone again in
44:08
Speaker 1: the government was like, no, that's not the direction you're
44:11
Speaker 1: going to take this. Yeah, yeah, you're going to write
44:13
Speaker 1: this and say there's no evidence, we didn't find anything.
44:17
Speaker 2: And they know that.
44:17
Speaker 4: People mostly just read the beginning and end of those
44:20
Speaker 4: really long reports.
44:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that happened to me in college
44:23
Speaker 2: a lot.
44:24
Speaker 5: You know, you'd write the abstract first, and then you'd
44:27
Speaker 5: actually read the book as you were writing the paper.
44:29
Speaker 5: Because you did actually read it in the first place,
44:31
Speaker 5: They're like, oh, William Blake didn't mean that at all.
44:35
Speaker 5: Have a great degree, you guys.
44:36
Speaker 2: So it's at this point I don't have the guy's
44:39
Speaker 2: name in the notes. What was Oh J. Allen Heineck, right,
44:43
Speaker 2: doctor J.
44:44
Speaker 4: Allen Heinick, who was brought on with the Robertson Report,
44:47
Speaker 4: the Robinson panel, but then the Robertson panels sent him
44:52
Speaker 4: to work for projects signed as a associate.
44:57
Speaker 2: Investigator or whatever his title was.
45:00
Speaker 4: And he was with this project from sign through Grudge
45:06
Speaker 4: and all the way to the end of Blue Book.
45:09
Speaker 4: And he came in as a super hardcore skeptic, just
45:14
Speaker 4: came in thinking all of this is bunk, none of
45:17
Speaker 4: this is real. This is all you know, there's a
45:20
Speaker 4: rational explanation for everything. And what's interesting about him is
45:25
Speaker 4: he's probably seen more of these reports than anyone else,
45:29
Speaker 4: and his general idea now has completely shifted to where
45:34
Speaker 4: he thinks that there are actually a decent number of
45:37
Speaker 4: these cases that are reliable and could be true.
45:43
Speaker 1: And I think that's compelling like that for sure, like
45:47
Speaker 1: who would know better than the people who actually saw
45:50
Speaker 1: this stuff and worked on it. And I think with him,
45:54
Speaker 1: especially like he when this final report came out, I
45:59
Speaker 1: think at the time even he was still kind of
46:02
Speaker 1: like on the fence, and then a few years later
46:04
Speaker 1: was like I thought about it a little more.
46:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, his his views are really interesting and they definitely
46:09
Speaker 4: they evolved very slowly over time, but in a way
46:14
Speaker 4: that is believable as someone who is receiving evidence. He
46:19
Speaker 4: was always very candid about his commanding officers, and he
46:25
Speaker 4: said that it was only repelled and a later guy
46:29
Speaker 4: captain friend, I believe.
46:32
Speaker 2: He's not an alien.
46:35
Speaker 3: Sorry, he's a major man friend.
46:41
Speaker 2: I am your friend, major friend.
46:44
Speaker 4: But he had he's Those are the only two people
46:47
Speaker 4: who headed the project that he had respect for, he said.
46:51
Speaker 4: In my context with him, I found him to be
46:53
Speaker 4: honest and seriously puzzled about the whole phenomenon and a friend.
46:58
Speaker 4: He wrote, of all the office I worked with in
47:00
Speaker 4: Blue Book, you're definitely a human being. He is the
47:04
Speaker 4: one who has the most human characteristic. Definitely, he earned
47:11
Speaker 4: my respect whatever private views he may have held, he
47:14
Speaker 4: was a total and practical realist, and sitting where he
47:17
Speaker 4: could see the scoreboard, he recognized the limitations of his office,
47:22
Speaker 4: but conducted himself with dignity and a total lack of
47:25
Speaker 4: the bomb bass that characterized several of the other Blue
47:28
Speaker 4: book heads.
47:28
Speaker 5: And then he took his glasses off and I stared
47:30
Speaker 5: deeply into his spiraling eyeballs.
47:46
Speaker 1: Hey, final update time. So one of the especially fascinating
47:51
Speaker 1: things hiding in those CIAUFO files I can't stop talking
47:54
Speaker 1: about is the governments behind the scenes reactions to Leon
47:59
Speaker 1: Davidson's hooping around their doorstep. In pretty quick order, it
48:03
Speaker 1: goes from we can probably just ignore this guy to
48:06
Speaker 1: borderline panic. I mentioned in an earlier update that Leon
48:10
Speaker 1: Davidson fired off a letter to the Office of Public
48:13
Speaker 1: Information seeking comment for an article he was planning to
48:16
Speaker 1: write about how the Air Force finally admitted that some
48:19
Speaker 1: UFO sightings were the result of secret military projects. Well,
48:23
Speaker 1: he wrote that article, and one of the first Davidson
48:25
Speaker 1: memos in the CIA files is about that article. I'll
48:28
Speaker 1: link to all of these documents in the show notes
48:31
Speaker 1: so you can read them for yourself. The letter about
48:33
Speaker 1: Davidson's article is from some unnamed person in the CIA
48:37
Speaker 1: to another unnamed person who I'm assuming is with the
48:39
Speaker 1: Air Force, seeing as how those are the two main
48:42
Speaker 1: organizations involved here.
48:44
Speaker 2: After the Air.
48:45
Speaker 1: Force apparently asked the CIA to respond to Davidson in
48:49
Speaker 1: some way that we'll get him to stop asking more questions,
48:52
Speaker 1: the CIA instead responds to the Air Force, and boy
48:56
Speaker 1: are they salty about it. Here's a kind of long
48:58
Speaker 1: quote that I'd like to point out was written in
49:00
Speaker 1: all caps. We do not want any business with Davidson.
49:03
Speaker 1: If he wishes to contact the agency, he already knows
49:06
Speaker 1: enough names. We do not see that any purpose will
49:09
Speaker 1: be served by giving him any more names or addresses.
49:13
Speaker 2: In addition, it has felt that we.
49:14
Speaker 1: Would only encourage more speculation by him were we to
49:18
Speaker 1: contact him again, or to offer him a new channel.
49:21
Speaker 2: If he should contact us.
49:23
Speaker 1: So, unless there are overriding reasons in the future, we
49:27
Speaker 1: do not want to be involved in this mess. Sorry
49:29
Speaker 1: to leave it with you, but the only purpose which
49:32
Speaker 1: would be served by other action would be to get
49:35
Speaker 1: your office off the hook by involving someone else in
49:38
Speaker 1: a matter in which we want no involvement. End quote
49:43
Speaker 1: and now, just a reminder, the only reason Davidson wrote
49:46
Speaker 1: that article was because the Air Force eventually roundabout admitted
49:50
Speaker 1: that the US military projects were the cause of some sightings.
49:55
Speaker 1: So the person writing this response kind of has a
49:57
Speaker 1: point about it not being their mess to clean up.
50:00
Speaker 1: The next fascinating piece of correspondence comes in the form
50:03
Speaker 1: of a letter to a dirty rat named doctor Thornton Page.
50:07
Speaker 1: Why a rat, because after Leon Davidson wrote him asking
50:10
Speaker 1: for information about something Flying Saucer related, doctor Page sent
50:14
Speaker 1: a reply, but he also sent a copy of that
50:16
Speaker 1: reply to the CIA to let them know Davidson was
50:20
Speaker 1: asking questions, and this prompts a response from the CIA
50:24
Speaker 1: where they ask doctor Thornton Page an important question, what
50:27
Speaker 1: the hell does Leon Davidson want anyway, because up to
50:31
Speaker 1: this point, apparently one of the world's premier intelligence gathering
50:35
Speaker 1: agencies could not get a handle on what Davidson wanted
50:40
Speaker 1: in why he wanted that report declassified in full, And
50:43
Speaker 1: apparently someone, maybe doctor Page, told them, because the next
50:47
Speaker 1: correspondence of interest is a reply to a letter from
50:50
Speaker 1: Minnesota Congressman Joseph Karth And by this point they're on
50:54
Speaker 1: to what Davidson's real goal is here's a quote from
50:57
Speaker 1: their letter. Mister Davidson believes that the sale Central Intelligence
51:01
Speaker 1: Agency is withholding information from him which would prove that
51:05
Speaker 1: this agency is, to quote his letter to you, solely
51:09
Speaker 1: responsible for creating the flying saucer furer. He believes further
51:13
Speaker 1: that this information is contained in the Scientific Advisory Panel
51:17
Speaker 1: report on UFO's dated January seventeenth, nineteen fifty three. And
51:21
Speaker 1: they also use the opportunity to contradict themselves by telling
51:25
Speaker 1: Karth that they worked with the Air Force to investigate
51:28
Speaker 1: flying saucers. But then every other correspondence to anyone about
51:32
Speaker 1: Davidson's questions make it super clear that the CIA doesn't
51:36
Speaker 1: want their name attached to this research at all, and
51:39
Speaker 1: especially not that nineteen fifty three panel report. And I
51:42
Speaker 1: think that raises an obvious question. If Leon Davidson wasn't
51:46
Speaker 1: onto something here, what explains the CIA wanting to distance
51:49
Speaker 1: themselves from that panel report, Because at every turn the
51:53
Speaker 1: official reply in regards to that report was that it
51:56
Speaker 1: concluded that UFOs weren't anything we needed to worry about.
52:00
Speaker 1: So what's the harm in having your name associated with
52:03
Speaker 1: something like that? Whatever the motivation there is no doubt
52:06
Speaker 1: the CIA was very motivated to get this Leon Davidson
52:10
Speaker 1: problem to go away without declassifying that panel report or
52:15
Speaker 1: letting on that they were involved with it at all.
52:17
Speaker 1: That's evidence by the fact that they convened three separate meetings,
52:21
Speaker 1: all documented in memos in these files, to talk about
52:25
Speaker 1: what to do.
52:26
Speaker 2: About his questions.
52:27
Speaker 1: In lieu of reading their ideas and plans verbatim, I'll
52:31
Speaker 1: just tell you that they essentially amounted to, at least
52:33
Speaker 1: at first ignore his letters and maybe get the FBI
52:36
Speaker 1: involved to see if Leon Davidson is a spy. That
52:39
Speaker 1: last part is weird, considering we're talking about the CIA here.
52:42
Speaker 1: If anyone is going to sniff out someone working at
52:44
Speaker 1: the behest of a foreign government.
52:46
Speaker 2: You'd think it would be them.
52:47
Speaker 1: But far be it from me to suggest that they
52:50
Speaker 1: might have had ulterior motives for wanting to send a
52:54
Speaker 1: whole other gun toting law enforcement agency to Leon Davidson's door.
52:58
Speaker 1: But then there's also all other set of memos and
53:01
Speaker 1: letters pertaining to another mystery Leon Davidson was trying to solve.
53:06
Speaker 1: Here is the fascinating opening line of that letter, Leon
53:10
Speaker 1: Davidson is on our backs again. He wants a verbatim
53:12
Speaker 1: translation of the space message and the identification of the
53:17
Speaker 1: transmitter from which it came. Yeah, that's right, Space message.
53:21
Speaker 2: There are all.
53:22
Speaker 1: Sorts of documents in these CIAUFO files that mention what
53:26
Speaker 1: is alleged to be a recording of some kind of
53:29
Speaker 1: message sent from outer space. It surfaced in nineteen fifty five,
53:34
Speaker 1: and some of the earliest of those CIAUFO files deal
53:37
Speaker 1: with the agency trying to get a copy of this recording.
53:41
Speaker 1: At one point it mentions that the people in possession
53:43
Speaker 1: of it quote prize the original wire recording too highly
53:47
Speaker 1: to relinquish it even to the government end quote. And
53:50
Speaker 1: somehow Leon Davidson got wind of this too and started
53:54
Speaker 1: demanding more details.
53:55
Speaker 2: What's funny is how the Air.
53:56
Speaker 1: Force seems to keep doing the wrong shit when it
53:59
Speaker 1: comes to silencing this guy. If you recall, it was
54:02
Speaker 1: their possibly accidental admission that some UFO sidings were actually
54:06
Speaker 1: military projects that got Davidson riled up in the first place.
54:10
Speaker 1: In the case of the space message, the first reply
54:12
Speaker 1: Davidson received was from a US Air Force Captain Wallace Elwood,
54:16
Speaker 1: where he assured Davidson that the message in question was
54:20
Speaker 1: actually just easily identifiable morse code from an earthly source
54:25
Speaker 1: and nothing to worry about at all, And how they
54:27
Speaker 1: didn't see what happened next coming from light years away
54:30
Speaker 1: is beyond me, because this response left Davidson asking the
54:34
Speaker 1: question that you all probably want to ask right now too,
54:37
Speaker 1: which is, well, if it was easily identifiable morse code,
54:41
Speaker 1: what did it say? Again, how do you not see
54:43
Speaker 1: that follow up question coming? Of course, he asked what
54:47
Speaker 1: the message said and where it came from, because the
54:50
Speaker 1: Air Force just told him we can decipher it and
54:53
Speaker 1: we know where it came from. Interestingly enough, this apparently
54:56
Speaker 1: put all involved agencies in quite a bind because they
55:00
Speaker 1: had no interest in actually answering that question, which again
55:04
Speaker 1: pretty weird. The CIA in particular was not impressed with
55:09
Speaker 1: the Air Force response. Here's how their letter about it ends.
55:12
Speaker 1: Davidson is no fool, and it appears that the Air
55:15
Speaker 1: Force is treating him as one if they think he
55:18
Speaker 1: can be satisfied with a standard operating procedure such as
55:22
Speaker 1: Captain Elwoods. So this turns into a whole debacle where
55:25
Speaker 1: Davidson writes a whole other article about how he's been
55:29
Speaker 1: asking about this space recording for more than a year
55:32
Speaker 1: and is getting no response. And you know what, he
55:35
Speaker 1: never gets that response, and the files never say what
55:38
Speaker 1: that space message was or where it came from. But
55:41
Speaker 1: there is a memo from the Air Force Technical Intelligence
55:45
Speaker 1: Center advising the CIA that no translation of this recording exists.
55:50
Speaker 1: In other words, it definitely wasn't Morse code. In fact,
55:53
Speaker 1: the closest thing he gets to a reply is a
55:56
Speaker 1: phone call documented in a memo advising him that the
56:00
Speaker 1: he seeks about the space recording isn't available because all
56:04
Speaker 1: records relating to it had been destroyed. There's also a
56:07
Speaker 1: startling moment of honesty in the memo about that phone call.
56:11
Speaker 2: Here's a quote.
56:11
Speaker 1: We appreciate that there have been many cooks in the
56:14
Speaker 1: kitchen on this dish, and that as a result, the
56:17
Speaker 1: extraordinarily noncommittal and evasive answer we were instructed to give
56:22
Speaker 1: Davidson was perhaps the only one possible if we were
56:26
Speaker 1: to avoid crossing up previous statements of our own and
56:29
Speaker 1: other involved agencies to this man. But the answer was
56:32
Speaker 1: hardly fair to Davidson and one not likely to be
56:35
Speaker 1: fully accepted by him. Man, all I can tell you
56:38
Speaker 1: is I really want to hear that space message. Now,
56:40
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like I'd be able to make
56:42
Speaker 1: sense of whatever bleeps and bloops and rushing wind noises
56:46
Speaker 1: it is, but still seems interesting in any way. Like
56:49
Speaker 1: I said, I'll link to all of these letters and
56:51
Speaker 1: memos in the show notes. Let's finish this podcast out
56:59
Speaker 1: in between the Robertson panel coming out and blue Book
57:04
Speaker 1: issuing this report number fourteen pelt leaves and blue Book
57:09
Speaker 1: is taken over just by a series of people who
57:11
Speaker 1: just don't give a shit like the government. It basically
57:15
Speaker 1: becomes government policy that blue Book is now debunking UFO
57:21
Speaker 1: stories as opposed to researching them, which again put nothing
57:25
Speaker 1: weird about that, Yeah, nothing off about that at all.
57:30
Speaker 1: And last thing we'll talk about quick the Condon Committee.
57:34
Speaker 1: This is what finally kills Project blue Book, and it
57:39
Speaker 1: was funded by the Air Force, carried out at the
57:42
Speaker 1: University of Colorado. UFO project formed after nineteen sixty six
57:47
Speaker 1: congressional hearings about another outbreak of UFO signings. I believe
57:51
Speaker 1: these were in Connecticut and it was directed by physicist
57:54
Speaker 1: Edward Condon. That research produced the Condon Report in nineteen
57:58
Speaker 1: sixty eight fourteen hundred eighty five pages in hardcover, nine
58:02
Speaker 1: to sixty five in paperback, released January nineteen sixty nine.
58:07
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, at fourteen hundred pages, there's a lot
58:10
Speaker 1: to dig through, but this was the general thesis of
58:14
Speaker 1: that study. Our general conclusion is that nothing has come
58:18
Speaker 1: from the study of UFOs in the past twenty one
58:20
Speaker 1: years that has added scientific knowledge. Careful consideration of the
58:24
Speaker 1: record as it is available to us leads us to
58:27
Speaker 1: conclude that further extensive study of UFOs probably cannot be
58:32
Speaker 1: justified in the expectation that science will be advanced thereby.
58:37
Speaker 1: And this is one of the defining moments in UFO
58:40
Speaker 1: research history, because this is the moment where every fucking
58:45
Speaker 1: like skeptic, borderline skeptic, like scientist, anyone, this is their
58:50
Speaker 1: thing that they point to and go, see, this guy
58:53
Speaker 1: studied it and he says it's not true. Well, fucking
58:56
Speaker 1: Project Bluebook studied it. Project Science studied it for a
58:59
Speaker 1: year and was like, no, it's real.
59:01
Speaker 2: It seems true. So how do you decide who you believe? Yeah, yeah, exactly,
59:07
Speaker 2: And it was.
59:08
Speaker 1: But it's it's still to this day pointed to as
59:11
Speaker 1: the thing that basically killed UFO research in this country.
59:17
Speaker 1: Project blue Book itself was more interesting from almost like
59:21
Speaker 1: an office work standpoint, Like imagine your day job for
59:25
Speaker 1: years and years just being to go into work and
59:29
Speaker 1: look at UFO reports and decide most of my life. Yeah, yeah,
59:36
Speaker 1: and uh so it's the Condon Report that eventually kills it.
59:40
Speaker 1: And to this day, the Air Force's uh standard answer
59:45
Speaker 1: if they're asked about Project.
59:46
Speaker 2: Blue Book and what they found.
59:48
Speaker 1: No UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force
59:52
Speaker 1: was ever an indication of a threat to our national security.
59:57
Speaker 1: There was no evidence submitted to or discovered by the
1:00:00
Speaker 1: Force that sightings categorized as unidentified represented technological developments or
1:00:06
Speaker 1: principles beyond the range of modern scientific knowledge. And there
1:00:10
Speaker 1: was no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as unidentified were
1:00:15
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial vehicles.
1:00:16
Speaker 5: Well and well, and major Friend was not a twelve
1:00:20
Speaker 5: foot tall alien from the planet UMO in a suit.
1:00:23
Speaker 1: There's a lot more to Project blue Book, obviously, but
1:00:25
Speaker 1: we don't have We don't have all goddamn.
1:00:27
Speaker 5: Dead tweet a language. If you want to talk Project
1:00:31
Speaker 5: blue Book, baby, I'm down to talk.
1:00:33
Speaker 4: I find it, I find it really fascinating it's really
1:00:35
Speaker 4: the only kinds of conspiracy theories that I can even
1:00:38
Speaker 4: engage with because.
1:00:39
Speaker 2: Now they're also boring.
1:00:40
Speaker 4: Is just the Jews, and it's like, that's so such
1:00:45
Speaker 4: a boring conspiracy.
1:00:47
Speaker 2: It's like, at least make up lizards. Yeah, exactly.
1:00:49
Speaker 3: George sorows Is he's paying to make people say that
1:00:53
Speaker 3: they're mad at the president. Yeah, that's the pay protest.
1:00:57
Speaker 2: These are like those are like the hot conspiracy.
1:01:00
Speaker 5: No, we need to return to the nineties when the
1:01:03
Speaker 5: hot conspiracies were about Area fifty one.
1:01:05
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly.
1:01:07
Speaker 1: So that's our episode about Project blue Book. Go out
1:01:11
Speaker 1: and uh, just fucking google it.
1:01:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, read up more on it.
1:01:15
Speaker 1: Be careful that second link for Project blue Book if
1:01:18
Speaker 1: you google it definitely a porn site that's gonna give
1:01:20
Speaker 1: you some viruses. I don't remember if it's Project Sign
1:01:23
Speaker 1: or Project blue Book, but I was like just starting
1:01:26
Speaker 1: to google and the second link, like the second fucking
1:01:31
Speaker 1: Google search was this totally like fraudulent oh ufo evidence
1:01:36
Speaker 1: And I click it and it's like, my fucking screen
1:01:39
Speaker 1: just lights up with Hey, you've won ten thousand dollars.
1:01:42
Speaker 3: Sounds conspiratorial, Yeah, hey, and they're just.
1:01:45
Speaker 2: Putting those pop ups as a distraction. Notice the ship.
1:01:50
Speaker 1: I look down, my keyboard was mutilated and poured out
1:01:54
Speaker 1: its asshole.
1:01:57
Speaker 2: Really weird. Tower's thyroid.
1:02:01
Speaker 4: This this episode is gonna be really timely though, because
1:02:03
Speaker 4: the History Channel is making a drama series called Project Blue.
1:02:09
Speaker 4: But and it's their main character is gonna be a
1:02:12
Speaker 4: doctor j Allen Heinex. So that's awesome, could be really interesting.
1:02:16
Speaker 5: I'm sure, Olivia. I'm sure you're on board as much
1:02:20
Speaker 5: as I am with that. And then I believe if
1:02:22
Speaker 5: it isn't already out, it's coming out there doing a
1:02:24
Speaker 5: Jack Parson show.
1:02:25
Speaker 3: It's oh nice. I saw a billboard Strange Angel, I
1:02:28
Speaker 3: think yes, so he was playing.
1:02:31
Speaker 2: I just saw it on a billboard as I was
1:02:32
Speaker 2: driving and was, Yeah, that's another thing that I've always
1:02:35
Speaker 2: thought would make a good show.
1:02:36
Speaker 5: Yeah, you and I are sympatico and our appreciation of
1:02:39
Speaker 5: a mid century modern weirdness.
1:02:41
Speaker 2: It's all coming true. The world's ending, but we're getting
1:02:44
Speaker 2: some good TV. God damn, Hey, there you go. What
1:02:48
Speaker 2: do we have to plug before we get out of here?
1:02:51
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash on pops you can get two
1:02:53
Speaker 1: bonus episodes of this podcast every month including last week's
1:02:57
Speaker 1: episode Patreon Only, which is about projects. Yeah, that's right,
1:03:01
Speaker 1: so it's a precursor to Project blue Book. Uh, Olivia,
1:03:05
Speaker 1: what do you have to plug?
1:03:06
Speaker 4: You can check out my Twitter at high Air High Darts,
1:03:10
Speaker 4: h A, I, d R and I talk about a
1:03:12
Speaker 4: lot of bullshit.
1:03:13
Speaker 3: Danger Yeah good. Patreon dot com slash countless thousands. We
1:03:19
Speaker 3: are launching a Patreon to support writing a punk rock
1:03:22
Speaker 3: musical called Election, a punk rock sorry, Election, a post
1:03:27
Speaker 3: apocalyptic musical. It's gonna be awesome. It's really great. We
1:03:30
Speaker 3: also just released a new song called Space Nazis Must
1:03:33
Speaker 3: Die guest verse from Professor Elemental All the Way from
1:03:38
Speaker 3: England is really good. It's really good. Is my favorite
1:03:41
Speaker 3: on the way.
1:03:41
Speaker 1: Don't you feel like focusing on space Nazis when there's
1:03:44
Speaker 1: so many ground Nazis is sort of I think.
1:03:46
Speaker 3: It's it, you know. I think it's a really good
1:03:48
Speaker 3: bridge for a lot of people to say, Okay, you know,
1:03:49
Speaker 3: we can definitely kill the space Nazis. Maybe we can
1:03:53
Speaker 3: then have a conversation because there's a lot of people
1:03:56
Speaker 3: who think that they're still good on both sides, Adam,
1:03:59
Speaker 3: the good both sides of the Nazi slash non Nazi debate.
1:04:03
Speaker 3: We feel otherwise, but I think that we could probably
1:04:06
Speaker 3: get some of those folks to open up and remain.
1:04:09
Speaker 3: You're really talking of the podcast seventy years.
1:04:12
Speaker 2: Well, I mean weird.
1:04:13
Speaker 3: Been looking into that kind of thing.
1:04:15
Speaker 2: That is so weird.
1:04:16
Speaker 3: I read a book once and we talked about it earlier.
1:04:21
Speaker 2: All right, let's get the fuck out of here.
1:04:22
Speaker 1: Olivia Saygabyeye, wait, can I plug? Oh?
1:04:29
Speaker 2: Oh that's right, you haven't plugged anything. I try very ca.
1:04:35
Speaker 5: Yeah, no you cannot. I don't want to tell him.
1:04:37
Speaker 5: I'm going to be in Nashville. Oh oh yeah, yeah,
1:04:43
Speaker 5: not too. I'm gonna have to drive through Fife, Alabama.
1:04:45
Speaker 5: This is a very famous rest in peace Fife. Uh huh,
1:04:48
Speaker 5: Fife Dogs. This is a Fife that Bill Hicks reference
1:04:53
Speaker 5: is actually on uh where he's like, I can't believe
1:04:55
Speaker 5: that aliens go to a place like Fife, Alabama, like
1:04:58
Speaker 5: some intergalactic Jode family.
1:05:01
Speaker 2: But uh no. Yeah.
1:05:02
Speaker 5: So you can find me on Facebook. No, don't, don't
1:05:05
Speaker 5: look for you on No, that's my shit.
1:05:07
Speaker 2: It's gross.
1:05:08
Speaker 5: Twitter and Instagram at Rivers Langley. You can check out
1:05:10
Speaker 5: my podcast. It's called The Goods from the Woods. It
1:05:11
Speaker 5: comes out every Tuesday on iTunes, Google Play, SoundCloud, all
1:05:14
Speaker 5: the stuff, and if you live down south, I'm doing
1:05:16
Speaker 5: a couple of dates in December.
1:05:17
Speaker 2: Find me in Nashville.
1:05:19
Speaker 5: At the Third Coast Comedy Club on Saturday, December twenty second,
1:05:23
Speaker 5: and the night before that, I'll be at Standard Deluxe
1:05:25
Speaker 5: in Waverley, Alabama with a bunch of straight killers from
1:05:29
Speaker 5: the atl We're gonna have a great comedy show out
1:05:31
Speaker 5: in the middle of goddamn nowhere.
1:05:33
Speaker 1: I'm glad Standard Deluxe is still around after what happened
1:05:36
Speaker 1: to Super Deluxe.
1:05:38
Speaker 2: Super Deluxe got way too ambitious.
1:05:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, Standard DeLux exactly all right, Now, can we get
1:05:43
Speaker 1: out of here?
1:05:44
Speaker 2: Yeah?
1:05:45
Speaker 3: Good, Now that it's not rude, Illivia say goodbye.
1:05:50
Speaker 1: Goodbye, Rivers say goobye goodbye, Danger.
1:05:54
Speaker 2: Bye, a gay goodbye. We love you, goodbye everybody. We
1:05:56
Speaker 2: love you.
1:06:02
Speaker 1: People of Earth, replanted hisself to his astronomer.