Latest / The SH!T Sandwich Generation / Playing Ping Pong

Transcript

Playing Ping Pong · The SH!T Sandwich Generation

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: My mom never wanted another surgery.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: She had been very clear about that from the beginning.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: The first surgery she had had been brutal.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: The wound healing process was awful.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: There was a wound vac, there was recovery, there was exhaustion, and frankly, she had gone through hell trying to heal.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Shit Sandwich Generation, the podcast for anyone stuck in the middle of caring for aging parents while raising kids of their own and navigating careers.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Mary Beth, here with my sister Susan, and every two weeks we'll bring you raw, honest conversations about the chaos, the comedy, and the crap no one warned us about.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: From healthcare battles to family drama to unforeseen career paths to those quiet moments when you just want to scream.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is where we talk about it all, because if you're going to survive the sandwich, you might as well make it a damn good one.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Mary, so the cancer was really aggressive and rare in an area that you'd never seen it there before.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'd never seen it there before.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody really seen it there before.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody could really tell us what chemo would even look like long-term, what the uh you know outcome was gonna be, would it help, and for how long, what would her quality of life be?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was really our thing.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we started to think, okay, maybe this is our window.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, immunotherapy had shrunk the cancer, that surgery was now possible where it wasn't.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was like, this is our shot.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she could still have some time, some time left with dad, some time left with us, more normal moments, right?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: What's a normal moment?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: More holidays, which is always what she, you know, her big focus was more, more memories, right?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I did, I think this was.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think everybody kind of, you know, had that thought, okay, this this is our shot.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think if we want more time together, and I think that's ultimately everyone's goal in this this life, right?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: As you go through, it's you you want more time with your loved ones, right?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's in the end what really matters.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: What what you know, the money, this, that, it's you know, that time.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: I remember thinking my girls are almost the age where they're gonna get married.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I want my mom to be here for their weddings, you know.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So because our kids were getting to that age, and there were some more graduations.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I, you know, just that hope of, you know, I really want to be here.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember both our grandmothers being there for our graduations, right?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, grandmothers were older when they they died, so they were they were there.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think, you know, my I know I I felt like this this is it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is we have to.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's any other options in my mind.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, knew it wasn't gonna be easy, but really felt like this was gonna be our only real chance.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it was we all had to, but we all had to be in in agreement here, right?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: This wasn't gonna be a decision that we could make, any one of us could make unilaterally.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: My dad, my mom was against surgery, so it was gonna be, you know, we had to kind of I don't want to say convince her, and you know, it wasn't weird.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: We certainly didn't do surgery against her will.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't want to go there, but no, no, we didn't make her have surgery.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was some serious talks.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there was a lot of conversations, right?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think, you know, we had to get siblings together, and we there was plenty of group, we had a group chat of group text, and we had to set up, you know, we had to set up time when all of us could could talk, right?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're all again, we're all have our own careers, so we had to make, you know, okay, which night works for you?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: What time?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And after uh my our our brother has little kids, yeah.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So getting them to bed, and then okay, now I can concentrate, right?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times it was nine o'clock at night that we were sitting there for an usually an hour, yeah, having a discussion about you know what happened to the appointments or what does mom think, because you and I were going back and forth between our siblings and mom and dad.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of translating and everything because it was overwhelming for dad and mom to have too many voices in the room.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So and mom wasn't uh honestly, mom really wasn't at all uh involved and it was really dad.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, I would talk to dad almost every night.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Mom would be in the background usually, right?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, she you could always, she would always, no matter where she was in the house, if I got on the phone with my dad in um literally in a matter of, I would say, what, three minutes?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: She would be there.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: She would be there, right?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you talking to?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm talking to Mary, I'm talking to Susan.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: In the background.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, it I mean it was very, very sweet for sure.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, I think some of these conversations, you know, dad really just needed one, he needed to decompress a little bit and share where he was.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And she was right there.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, that was kind of funny, but it was true.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: No matter how sick she was, yeah, at any point, she was right there.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So even if she really couldn't really, I mean, after some of the after this, you know, she even if she couldn't really walk that well, she was she was there in a flash.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: She was there.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing sometimes, sometimes where she found that strength to get up and get right next to the phone.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it was funny.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: But anyways, yeah.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think, you know, I we had that conversation with our, you know, siblings.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: We had a conversation with dad, and then, you know, all decided that, yeah, this is gonna be our our only option here.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think I had the I don't want to say the stamina.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the word is.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I could watch my mom go through chemo and watch her her her die from this type of thing.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think we both knew there would be complications due to chemo.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And there was honestly, there was such a low likelihood of regression from the chemo that it was not, that was not an option.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was off the table.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was really off the table from the beginning.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, even though it was thrown out there at the time, I really don't think it was an option.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it really left us with, okay, I wanted, yeah, I wanted more time with my surgery or it's it's no surgery.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of back and forth around that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of, I think it was emotionally exhausting um to have those conversations, you know.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that was made, the the decision was made, uh, and I think we were all in agreement, or at least mom was isn't in a much as much agreement issue as gonna be, because we knew it was gonna be, you know, it wasn't gonna be an easy next whatever this looked like was gonna be a lot, and we all knew it was gonna be a lot of logistics as well.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot of planning.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: But first thing that we had to do were the all the appointments, and again, this is not it was a complicated, right?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to see, not only did we have to see the surgical oncologist, but they wanted us to see it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now they wanted us to see a vascular surgeon because it was close to the femoral artery, so we had to see a vascular surgeon, and we had to see the surgical oncologist wasn't going to close, so we had to see a plastic surgeon.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that's three appointments, not counting all the the pre-ops, right?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the vascular surgeon was at a different hospital, so they wanted us to see us somebody that specialized in this and trust again, trusted our our our doctors at this point, so really listened to them.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to set up these all these appointments, and and now again, dad couldn't go to these appointments by himself.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: So how he could, but you know, again, we they were they were it was a long drive for him with mom.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, she uh did need some help getting out of the car, but again, these were really important appointments, and I think we knew that there needed to be somebody else there.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think realistically he couldn't go to the appointments by himself.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of I I think the the word here, Mary, is there's like a lot of caregiver logistical overload, is what I would call it, right?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Coordinating appointments, transportation, specialists, multiple hospitals, schedules, our work.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, when those appointments come up to see the physicians, it's not, oh well, I have I have, I, I, I'm gonna like just skip out of work, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, especially as physicians, you have patients, I have meetings.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: What day can you take off?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: What day can you, you know, so yeah, it was the logistics.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I mean, you're taking what appointment you can get as well, right?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're not, you're not, oh, well, I can't do that day.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have this time?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's they're giving you what time they can do, and you're like, okay, I'll take it, right?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, we're on a short time, we're on a short timeline here.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: We've got multiple appointments, and we've all got jobs.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we how do we do this?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of a little bit of uh we've we've talked about tag before, you know, tag it's return, but I think this is a little bit of a back and forth with uh almost like a game of ping pong.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: It felt more like ping pong, felt like a ball being back.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you hit it one day and then it comes right back to you.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, and then there's a spin on it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's just you're you know, not predictable.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that was part of it, right?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's finally a plan, and then actually, no, you need to see the plastic surgeon.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, the ball is back there, and then you see, you know, then it's back to okay, the plastic surgeon we saw, and now we're gonna see go back to the oncologist.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now the oncologist's like, oh, you know, I thought about it.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: You need to see the surgeon and you need the vascular surgeon.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it just felt like a lot of um, you know, back and forth.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Every time we thought, we were like, okay, we have it down.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was like the ball was back and it was back in your court.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, 100%.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and then you know, the sibling sort of, okay, you know, who can do it?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, it's here, it's coming to you.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do it.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming back to you.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think dividing those appointments and then, you know, covering them and rearranging schedules and carrying, you know, there's an emotional and then there's a logistical overload.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think there was, yeah, the logistical overload was definitely there, right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: But there's that emotional exhaustion as as well of the, you know, there's a lot of changes here.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, I didn't know we would need a plastic surgeon to close, you know.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, who's going to the plastic surgeon?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't do it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had already gone to the surgical oncologist.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna go to the vascular surgeon, had gotten a day when I could do that.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we sent my sister-in-law to that appointment.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: She did.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: She raised her hand and said, I'll go to that appointment.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was just trying to make sure I kept a job.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think Susan, you were at this point, we're trying to kind of really keep the her job in in place, so it which was fine.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: At this point, you know, I had the the my schedule was a little bit flexible.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So and but she had a job that at this point in time she had taken, yep, taken a lot of time off for other things in this whole process and really needed to concentrate on on her job, especially if surgery was gonna be an option coming up.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I had somebody on my team leave around that time.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I mean, this is where we talk about the sandwich.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I had somebody on my team leave.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was really happy for that person, but it meant that I was gonna have to pick up that workload and I was gonna have to hire for that position at the same time.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it was like, wow, I've got this, I've got that.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: How do you do that at work?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: How do you still how do you still be a leader at work knowing you have all of this going on in the background, Susan?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think again, it's it it's I don't have the answer.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be honest about that.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think some of it is compartmentalizing, some of it is just saying, okay, I'm at work right now, I'm gonna be fully present while I'm at work.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think we do that well as physicians because we have to do that.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a skill that we've learned through the years.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Again, maybe to a fault sometimes, I think.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, definitely that.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, again, I think we as professionals were very hard workers to the point where we sometimes have a little self-sacrifice, right?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I loved my job.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was fortunately, I think fortunately I loved what I was doing and very committed to what I was doing.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very easy to stay focused on this work is really important, and that's really important.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So leaning into and then prioritizing.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing is, and again, we don't always do this well as leaders, which is delegating.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and we don't always do it, you know, as as parents, we don't always do it well, you know.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: But at some point you have to say, I, you know, I trust my team.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: They're my team.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I built this team, I trust them.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: They know what to do.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I will be here and I will be present for them.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: But some of this they really can do.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that was helpful for me.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that was actually a helpful lesson for me to learn.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as a leader, that's a really good point to to make, is that you you you built a team and you're building your team so that they can kind of do what you need them to do, right?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if you built and chose your team players, right, they're gonna execute what you want them to execute.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of a a you know, good job to you if you you've built the team and they can kind of you can delegate to them.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the same, you know, with our kids to an extent.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think during this time, uh, you know, I let my kids, you know, they can, they're mature, they can, you know, pick up some of the the pieces and and help out a little bit.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always the it's not exactly how we would want it.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of it too.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it might not be how I do it, right?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right with our kids or even at work, it might not be how I do it, but that doesn't mean that it's not done or not done well, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's letting go of perfection, some of that perfection, right?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect, there is no perfect, right?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if you think it's gonna be perfect, it's it's not perfect.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: You wanna just move forward and do the best you can always.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So and I and overall, I think our kids were pretty helpful during this period of time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think they, you know, I think they were kind of taking a, I don't want to say a backseat, but I I think they were giving us the space and you know, the space to do what we needed for for men for for dad, you know, they saw me talking to dad every night.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: They still see me talking to my dad.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they saw me going to appointments and they would ask, you know, if I needed anything.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they, you know, did what they they have busy lives too, but I think they helped and you know, they knew that this was also gonna be a little bit of a tough road moving moving forward.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I think if I look back now, you know, with all these appointments uh as we were going through them, I you know, I I think dad, even though he was present, I I'm not sure.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: He was numb, I think.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I really think he was numb at that point and really maybe a little burnt out.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like this was just, I think it was almost too much for him.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: To even like wrap his head around like what things would look like, right?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we could have done a better, you know, hindsight probably did a done a little bit better job supporting him.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think we were all in a little bit of a shock at this point in time.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we could have, you know, dad, what what do you need?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we yeah, I don't think we did that well at this point in time.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Susan?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I don't think we did it well, but again, I think knowing him, he probably would have said nothing.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need anything focused on mom, you know.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it again, I think what as I'm thinking about this period of time, Mary, this was such a fast period of time.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, we got back from the the the vacation the end of February, and this was all going on the whole month of March.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was a all these appointments were the month of March, and it was to me, it was like a whole blur, you know.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just remember like, okay, I know we can park in this parking garage in New York City.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like that to me was like, oh my gosh, I found a parking garage that works for me.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was trail.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know how to get there, I know where to park, I can do this.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the first time, yeah, it it's and I know where I can eat, and I know, you know, like it was just those little things, but wow, it was going so fast.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it needed to be going so fast.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think again, it was like that ping pong, okay, it's yours, okay, it's mine, it's it's hers.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's and then sometimes the ball was like, you know, how when you're playing ping pong, the ball goes off the table, and yeah, you should be able to find it, but you're not quite sure where it's like.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was yeah, exactly.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I couldn't find it a lot.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, ping pong is supposed to be fun.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: This was not not fun at all.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I I think the saying the ball goes off the table, I think that was one of the one of those the moments was seeing the vascular surgeon.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, went into that, I went to that appointment and we had a plan in place.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, when they told us we had to have two surgeries instead of one.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I think we both were like, what?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that and at a different hospital.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Two separate hospitals, two different surgeries, two different surgeries had to go back to back.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So had to go from one hospital to the next.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I think my mind just and uh who knows what my my dad was just again, he was numb, and my mom, all she just didn't want she didn't want to, she didn't want she was just going along for the the ride.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, so uh and and you know, at some point in, you know, so with the vascular surgery, we had a plan when we left the hospital.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: This was the other thing, this is where the ball goes off.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you always think, you know, you have some plan in mind, and it's this is the plan, and then all of a sudden it it changes.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I had gotten home that day, and I think I got a call from actually the vascular surgeon.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, I talked to my team.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we changed our minds.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: We think this would be a better option.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they were gonna do a different procedure.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: They were gonna instead of a stent, they were gonna do a bypass.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: So really not a minor surgery now.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have a major surgery.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Two major surgeries.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what does that look like?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: How many, you know, and this is a phone call after I'd just been at the hospital all day, because these appointments are really day-long appointments, right?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, by the time you get there, you wait, you see.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, and and do I understand I'm a physician, but do I understand this completely?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so you do have to ask a lot of questions and you do have to make sure you're asking the really important questions.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, how long is she going to be in the hospital?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: What are the risks, you know?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of this, you know, it's good to always have written somewhere down so that you know what you should be asking, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I always think like, think about before you go to that appointment, you know, what's my goal for this appointment?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: What do I need to figure out in this appointment?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So at this point, it was like, what's the surgery?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then your questions, like, what are the the most important questions that you want answered?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is easy to get off track, you know, with all these other things.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then you come out and you go, I never asked that question, but write it down, right?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Doctor has their agenda.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have, you know, and I hate when and I don't and sometimes hate when patients bring lists, but honestly, you really have to have something with you to remind you of what questions you need to ask.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's emotional, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: You start getting into an emotional conversation.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you lose your train of thought, but if you have that written down, it's in front of you.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Be, you know, respectful of the doctor and the doctor's time, but have your questions.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I always like to get through my patients' questions and their their lists because it's important to them, right?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: We and so you do need that that list, uh list in front of you.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you can stay on topic when you're, you know, it's like if you're if you're talking about your heart, you know, probably it's not the visit to start talking about your big toe.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that probably is a s a different visit, you know.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I think you know, we're talking about have your priorities regarding that particular whatever the particular issue is.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: The ball completely went off the table on this one.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't even return it because I had no idea what what to say.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I I was, I think, honestly, okay, you know, okay, so we need to do you think this is the best.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he's talking to his his team that are the best of the best.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what are you gonna say to that?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't agree.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: You said, are you kidding me?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's what you said.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe you said it to me, but I I do think that was like really that was the gist of it.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, really?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you kidding me?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and none of this was funny, but you know, some of it was kind of yeah, it was uh you just had to, I mean, you just had to kind of make light of some of it because this is all all heavy stuff.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh you're you're talking about an 85 now, you're talking about an 85-year-old going through two major surgeries.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So now you start worrying, and I think, you know, and I can't recall maybe one of my siblings was questioning whether, you know, this was the right decision because could she make it through the surgeries, right?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not sure that sibling thought that they could make it through the surgeries.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think there was that too, to be honest.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: With you, but no names here, no names.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean again, we're we're you know getting everything in line for these surgeries, but you know, and and expecting her to you know just fly through these surgeries if she doesn't, but you know, 85.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is she you know, is she up to these surgeries, Susan?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Did we think about that?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think uh again, this might be a really good point, Mary.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes when things are going this quickly, it is a good idea to just say, let's take a pause.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just take a pause.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I think we didn't feel like the ping-pong was going back and forth so fast, right?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that we felt like if we took a pause, it was gonna come back and hit us in the face and down we were gonna go.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we've ever had a ping-pong ball hit in the face.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: It does hurt.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: It stings a little.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: It stings a little.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think that's kind of how we felt, but we should have said, okay, let's put the ball and the paddles down on the table.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And just take a pause for a day and take a breath and think about what this means for everyone, and then, you know, come back to it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I do think there were points where we could have just taken that breath and pause.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's an important reminder to anybody going through this, is you really do, even though you know it can be very chaotic, things can seem like they're urgent, they're flying, but you do have to take a step back.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: You do have to pause and and really reassess and kind of pros and and I'm a big, I'm a big pros and cons person.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell tell my kids and kids when they ask me a question, you need to write down your your pros and your cons.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and it really does help you see the the path forward.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you agree on that one, but I mean I do, and I think in this situation, we certainly could have done it.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to put a caveat here is that there are times in medicine where you know it's it's not appropriate to say I'm gonna take a pause here.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, 100%.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: There are times if it's an emergency.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's an emergency you don't take a pause.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: But this was one I think we could have taken a pause and and just come back with with clearer minds, or at least a good night's sleep.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that's the bottom line.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you're you're again grasping at grasping at hope, right?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: So this is like the surgery is hopeful.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's gonna be hope, it's our hope.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: But you do get you start getting exhausted.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when you get exhausted, it's harder to think clearly.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: So and I think caregiving is, you know, one of those I I think it's often like an invisible full-time job, right?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Layered on to real life.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: It really is a full-time job.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: You you're on and you're on call, right?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not 24-7.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not even a full-time job.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're on call 24-7.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, kudos to all those caregivers out there.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes they're doing it by themselves, right?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's no, there's no dad, there's no Mary, yeah, or or other sibling.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: You're actually the one doing it all by yourself.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to acknowledge that.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody out there right now who's a caregiver, want to say, uh, see you, feel you, and know that you're doing, you know, all you can and doing your best.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I've said this before: give yourself some grace and give yourself, you know, time to take care of yourself because caregivers have to also take care of themselves.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you you can't be a caregiver.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you're taking care of your health, make sure you're, you know, it is so, so important, I think.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Mary, I want to talk about a little bit about what mom, what was important to mom, which I think was so interesting in this whole thing, because we're talking about surgery, and she's like, Yeah, yeah, surgery, we can do surgery.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think at some point she was like, Yeah, we can do surgery.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it was like there was one thing that was so important to her, and it wasn't related to the surgery itself.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: It was so simple, it was so basic, it was so simple, right?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, she didn't want the surgery, but she was willing to do it.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if if right, right.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was one caveat in all of this.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that that was I, you know, the biggest thing was that she cared about, and I think this is such a good reminder for all of us, is could she be home for Easter?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Easter.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was it.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, so, and it's amazing, right?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Through all this complicated, you know, all this complicated stuff, it's very simple.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's she just wanted to be home for for Easter.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't through all of it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't didn't matter.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: She would do it.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think she understood that this was her her, you know, option.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Not I don't want to say only option, but this was gonna give her hopefully the quality of life moving forward that she could still enjoy life.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: But we were so focused on, you know, the really the surgeries, the artery bypass, the risks, the hospitals, the schedules.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing that mattered to her was getting back home to her normal life and to be home for Easter so she could, I'm sure, celebrate with her family, her grandkids, uh her kids, do all of her traditions.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I think you know, she was planning Easter at that point in time.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, if I have to do these surgeries, okay, what do I need to make before I go into the hospital?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think she made Easter bread.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: The Easter bread.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think she made the honey balls or strufoli as they're called in Italy, and uh the uh it's called she calls it puba cloaf.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a little Easter bread cookie.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she made those, but right.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, just taking that step back and saying, you know, what what is important to this person that I'm caring for?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: What is really important to them, I think is really so important because we do we do lose that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we lose it for ourselves.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about that in an earlier episode, Mary, about how you lose yourself in all this, but it's easy to lose what's important for the person that you're caring for.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just again, I think that's where taking that step back and saying, okay, you know, what's important to you?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want out of this?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's really all she wanted out of it was to be back for Easter.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't even, well, I want to get to Cape Cod for the summer, or I want to see so-and-so's graduation, or it wasn't even that far out.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was really just And I think Easter was like a month.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was early, it was kind of early April, mid April, early April, April.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's all.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's all she wanted.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it is important to know what, you know, as a care if you are a caregiver, what's important to that person that you're you're giving care to, right?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: So what what you know, tell us.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think we want to hear what's your loved one's Easter moment.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, share it with us.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: We we would love to hear it.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to hear some of the other stories.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because everyone does have an Easter moment.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, each of us has one too, yeah as we're going through life.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, what's what's what's important to that person that you're giving care to?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: What is it they they look forward to?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Share it.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to know.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to hear what everyone has to say.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Should please share it with us.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because we you in, you know, we probably, you know, that's something that we don't really think about all the time.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So she wanted to be home for Easter, and that's where we were we were headed.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we had to have two surgeries, two major surgeries, two different hospitals.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: What comes next?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do the surgeries happen?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for listening to this shit sandwich generation.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: If today's episode made you laugh, cry, or just feel more seen, share it with someone who's in this with you.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Subscribe, leave us a review, let us know about your Easter moment or your loved ones' Easter moment.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let us know about your own sandwich generation stories at IG Handle at Mary Beth P6.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember, you are not alone.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing better than you think, and you really don't have to let a shit sandwich.