Latest / The Burros of Berea Podcast / Episode 314- Prophet of Fire- Part 6

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Episode 314- Prophet of Fire- Part 6 · The Burros of Berea Podcast

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  Last time, we took you on a minute -by -minute
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  look at the last day of the 51 -day standoff
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  at Waco, Texas between Mount Carmel and the U
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  .S. government. In this episode, we will focus
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  on the aftermath of the Waco siege, what happened
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  after the fire, and how its legacy shaped law
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  enforcement, American culture, and extremism.
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  I'm Rick Welch and this is Prophet of Fire. It
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  was the deadliest day in U .S. law enforcement
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  history since 9 -11. before 9 -11 ever happened.
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  On April 19, 1993, 76 people died in a blaze
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  that consumed Mount Carmel. Among them children,
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  mothers, young men, and the man who had led them
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  all, David Koresh. The world watched it live.
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  The flames, the collapse, the horror. But what
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  followed was a storm of silence, suspicion, and
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  blame. In the hours after the fire, federal agents,
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  fire marshals, and FBI forensic teams moved into
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  the scorched remains of the compound. They expected
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  bodies, but they weren't prepared for what they
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  would find. The structure had collapsed inward.
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  The central chapel, where many had taken shelter,
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  was nothing but charred timber and metal. The
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  stench of burnt human flesh was overwhelming.
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  Rescue workers had to use sifting screens to
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  find remains. They recovered 76 bodies, 25 were
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  children. Some were found in closets, others
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  in concrete bunkers. A number of adults were
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  discovered clutching the bodies of children.
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  It was worse than anyone had imagined. Among
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  the dead, David Koresh found in a rear room with
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  a gunshot wound to the forehead. Beside him,
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  Steve Schneider, his second in command, also
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  shot. Theories emerged fast. Did Schneider kill
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  Koresh, then himself? Did Koresh end it all in
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  an act of prophetic finality? Or did someone
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  else, perhaps at Koresh's command, carry out
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  a final act of cleansing? The answers burned
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  with the compound. Autopsies offered grim detail.
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  Many of the children had died from smoke inhalation,
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  but a few had blunt force trauma to the skull,
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  possibly from falling debris. Possibly not. At
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  least 20 adults had been shot, some in the head,
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  execution style. Others had fatal wounds to the
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  chest or back. Then there was the fire itself.
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  Did the FBI start it? The Bureau insisted. No
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  incendiary devices were used. No agents fired
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  a single round that day. But footage of tanks
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  punching holes in the building and fire erupting
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  moments later told a more complicated story.
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  Survivors like David Thibodeau believe the fire
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  began inside, but not because they wanted to
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  die, because they had been driven to the edge.
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  He recalls, quote, They kept telling us to come
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  out, but it wasn't that simple. People weren't
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  thinking rationally anymore. They thought dying
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  meant salvation, end quote. Meanwhile, the public
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  was in shock. TV anchors spoke in stunned tones.
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  Opinion columns called it a massacre. Some praised
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  the FBI for ending a dangerous cult. Others compared
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  it to Kent State, Mylie, and Jonestown. Protests
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  erupted in Waco. The ATF office in Houston received
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  bomb threats. Conspiracy theorists, many from
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  emerging militia movements, began to speak one
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  name over and over. Waco. It was no longer just
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  a place. It was a symbol of mistrust, of extremism,
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  of state power and perceived persecution. And
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  the federal government would now be forced to
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  explain how a search warrant turned into a funeral
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  pyre. In the days following the fire, public
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  scrutiny turned from the ruins in Waco to the
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  government offices in Washington D .C. Someone
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  had to answer for what happened. And the person
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  who stepped forward was the highest law enforcement
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  official in the United States. On April 22, just
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  three days after the fire, Attorney General Janet
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  Reno stood before a press corps and took responsibility.
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  This was my decision. I made it. I am accountable
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  for it. Reno explained that the FBI had assured
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  her that children were being abused inside, that
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  negotiations had stalled, that tear gas, not
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  firepower, would be used. But as reporters pressed
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  her on why the operation had to happen on April
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  19th, Reno admitted something few expected. I
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  was concerned about the welfare of the children."
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  The public was torn. Some saw a decisive leader,
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  others saw a scapegoat, or worse, an enabler.
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  Inside the FBI, the internal after -action reports
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  praised their tactical execution but admitted
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  key failures. They had misjudged Koresh's theology,
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  they had underestimated the psychological power
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  he had over his followers, and perhaps most damning,
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  they had lost patience. The decision to initiate
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  the final operation wasn't based on imminent
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  danger, but on fatigue. As pressure mounted,
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  the U .S. Congress launched a formal investigation.
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  In July of 1995, more than two years after the
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  fire, House and Senate committees held joint
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  hearings on what became known as the tragedy
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  at Waco. The hearings were emotional. Survivors
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  like Kiri Jewell, just 14 years old, testified
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  about being abused by Koresh. I didn't want to,
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  but I was taught not to say no." Others defended
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  Koresh. Clive Doyle, one of the few adult survivors,
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  said the government had no right to decide what
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  was a legitimate religion. We weren't crazy,
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  we believed, and we didn't shoot first. Lawmakers
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  grilled FBI officials over conflicting reports.
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  Did agents fire shots? Did they use flammable
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  devices? Did they ignore chances to deescalate?
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  And one of the most debated pieces of evidence?
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  The use of pyrotechnic tear gas rounds. Initially,
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  the FBI denied they were used, but years later
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  it was revealed that at least two such devices
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  had been fired near a bunker at the rear of the
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  compound, hours before the fire. But the final
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  official word came in 2000 with the Danforth
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  Report, an independent investigation led by former
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  Senator John Danforth. His conclusion? The FBI
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  did not start the fire. Agents did not fire weapons
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  on April 19th. The fire was deliberately set
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  from within, but the FBI did make tactical and
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  strategic errors that contributed to the loss
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  of life. Danforth called the siege a tragedy,
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  not a conspiracy, not an assassination, but a
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  failure of understanding, of patience, and of
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  imagination. But outside the official reports,
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  a different narrative was already spreading,
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  and it was far from over. Night Adults escaped
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  the fire, They emerged from the smoke broken,
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  half -blind, and breathless. The media called
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  them survivors. The government called them defendants.
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  In the months that followed, 12 Branch Davidians
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  were indicted on federal charges, including voluntary
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  manslaughter, weapons violations, and conspiracy
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  to murder federal agents. Their trial began in
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  San Antonio in January 1994. It would stretch
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  for nearly two months. The prosecution argued
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  that these men and women helped orchestrate the
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  firefight on February 28. that they were willing
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  soldiers in a battle against the United States.
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  The defense said they were believers, brainwashed,
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  terrified, and clinging to survival. Among the
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  most high -profile defendants were Ruth Riddle,
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  who helped smuggle out Koresh's handwritten SEALS
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  manuscript, Livingston Fagan, a theology student
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  from Britain, Brad Branch, accused of returning
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  fire during the initial raid, Paul Fatah, the
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  group's arms dealer and alleged logistical planner.
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  The verdicts were complicated. Eight were convicted.
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  mostly on weapons -related charges. Four were
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  acquitted entirely. No one was convicted of murder.
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  The judge, Walter Smith Jr., stunned observers
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  by adding decades to the sentences of several
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  men, using a rarely invoked provision that allowed
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  him to enhance penalties if he believed the crimes
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  involved intent to kill. The result? Some were
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  sentenced to 40 years. Others received 20 or
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  more. But over time, those sentences began to
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  erode. In 2000, A federal appeals court reduced
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  many of them. Some were released as early as
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  2006. Others remain incarcerated into the 2010s.
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  Today, most of the surviving Davidians live quiet
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  lives. Clive Doyle returned to Waco and remained
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  a vocal defender of Koresh's teaching until his
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  death in 2022. David Thibodeau, one of the few
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  Inner Circle members to escape the fire, wrote
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  a memoir and now speaks regularly about cult
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  dynamics and the danger of extremist theology.
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  Others vanished into silence. changed by trauma,
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  grief, and belief. David Thibodeau recalls, quote,
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  I lost friends. I lost faith. I lost a piece
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  of myself in that fire, but I didn't lose the
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  truth of what happened. End quote. Some survivors
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  still believe Koresh was the lamb. Others now
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  see him as a manipulator, a man who used scripture
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  as a weapon and brought them to the brink of
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  destruction. But whether loyal or lost, they
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  all carry the same scars. The legal chapter may
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  have closed. but Waco wasn't finished echoing
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  through the American story. Because even as courtrooms
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  went quiet, something else was brewing. As the
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  dust settled on Mount Carmel, a new narrative
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  emerged, not from Washington, not from Waco,
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  but from the American fringe. Waco became more
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  than a tragedy. It became a spark. Within months
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  of the siege, right -wing militias began citing
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  Waco as proof that the federal government was
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  out of control. Talk radio lit up with outrage.
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  Conspiracy theories flourished in gun shows and
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  survivalist newsletters. The ATF and FBI were
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  labeled tyrants. Koresh was seen not as a cult
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  leader, but as a martyr. One man in particular
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  was listening closely. Timothy McVeigh was 25
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  years old when the Waco fire burned. A Gulf War
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  veteran, disillusioned and angry, he visited
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  the Mount Carval ruins after the siege, taking
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  photographs, speaking with survivors, and selling
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  anti -government bumper stickers from the back
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  of his car. He would later say Waco was his turning
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  point. Exactly two years later, April 19, 1995,
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  McVeigh parked a rider truck outside the Alfred
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  P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
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  Inside the truck, over 4 ,800 pounds of homemade
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  explosives. At 9 .02 a .m., the bomb detonated.
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  168 people were killed. 19 were children. It
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  was the deadliest act of domestic terrorism in
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  American history. McVeigh later told reporters
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  he chose the date intentionally, as revenge for
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  Waco and Ruby Ridge. In his mind, he wasn't killing
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  civilians. He was fighting tyranny. Quote, Waco
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  was first. Oklahoma was the counterattack. End
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  quote. Waco's influence didn't end there. It
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  echoed through the patriot movement, sovereign
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  citizen circles, and anti -government militias.
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  By the 2000s, it was a fixture in fringe culture,
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  a cautionary tale twisted into ideology. In 2014,
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  Cliven Bundy, a Nevada rancher engaged in a standoff
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  at the Bureau of Land Management, invoked Waco
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  by name. In 2021, rioters stormed the U .S. Capitol
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  chanting about revolution. Some carried flags
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  and patches referencing Waco. And today, in online
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  forums and extremist manifestos, the name Waco
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  still appears. Coded language for resistance,
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  rebellion, and revenge. But the people who lived
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  through it, who buried their families, who escaped
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  the flames, tell a very different story. Not
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  one of glory, but of grief. Survivor David Thibodeau
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  recalls, quote, If you think Waco was about fighting
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  back, you weren't there. You didn't see the kids.
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  You didn't smell the smoke. End quote. Waco became
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  mythologized by people who never set foot on
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  its soil. But beneath the legend are the ruins
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  of a real place, a real people and a real warning.
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  A warning about power. about belief and about
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  what happens when fear is louder than truth.
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  Waco wasn't just a standoff. It wasn't just a
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  fire. It was a fracture in the American psyche.
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  A place where law, religion, media, and power
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  collided and no one walked away unscathed. Not
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  the government, not the survivors, not the country.
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  For some, Waco is a wound. For others, a warning.
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  And for a few, it's still a calling. But for
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  everyone, It remains a reminder of what happens
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  when belief becomes blind, when prophecy becomes
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  policy, and when nobody is willing to listen
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  until it's too late. In our next episode, we
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  close our series with what I call The Gospel
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  According to Koresh. We'll go deeper into the
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  teachings that shaped a prophet, how David Koresh
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  built his theology from the Book of Revelation,
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  why people believed him, and whether there's
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  anything we missed. Something hidden in the seals,
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  in the scriptures, or in ourselves. It's the
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  story behind the story and the spiritual storm
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  that still hasn't passed. I'm Rick Welch and
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  this is Prophet of Fire.