Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Investigators reveal new evidence that makes Robert Wagner their 'person of interest' in Natalie Wood's death

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Investigators reveal new evidence that makes Robert Wagner their 'person of interest' in Natalie Wood's death · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
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Speaker 1: one thirty two. The bombshell news last week that a
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Speaker 1: person of interest has been named in the death of
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Speaker 1: Hollywood icon Natalie Would. That po I person of interest
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Speaker 1: none other than TV star her husband Robert Wagner. We're
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Speaker 1: going straight to a police pressor that has just gone down.
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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us, Allan, take me to the pressor. Good morning.
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Speaker 1: My name is Christopher Burgner and I'm the captain for
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Speaker 1: the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department's Homicide Bureau. Thank you
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Speaker 1: all for coming out this morning. In two thousand eleven,
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Speaker 1: the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department reopened the investigation of
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Speaker 1: Natalie Wagner Would and her drowning death. As a result
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Speaker 1: of these efforts, witnesses were identified in two thousand eleven
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Speaker 1: and two thousand twelve that weren't previously known. This case
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Speaker 1: remains a suspicious circumstances death, and the information that came
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Speaker 1: forward in two thousand eleven and two thousand twelve has
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Speaker 1: helped present a more articulate timeline in this case. I'd
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Speaker 1: like to thank the witnesses that came forward at that
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Speaker 1: time for providing information and reach out to the general
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Speaker 1: public for those that have firsthand knowledge of the circumstances
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Speaker 1: that occurred that night with Ms. Wood and turned over
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Speaker 1: to lieutend John Karina for additional information regarding this case.
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Speaker 1: H First of all, I have to apologize last week,
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Speaker 1: I got got that flu that's going around, as you
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Speaker 1: can tell, and so I got that deep, gravelly voice.
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Speaker 1: All I gotta take a break here and take a
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Speaker 1: drink of water. Bear with me. Um uh. As Captain
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Speaker 1: Bergner was saying, we open, we all were all it
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Speaker 1: tooking a look at this case back in two thousand eleven,
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Speaker 1: and that's what really the only press conference we did
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Speaker 1: on this case was back then, we uh held one
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Speaker 1: press conference, and from that press conference, we ended up
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Speaker 1: with like well over a hundred people came forward with
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Speaker 1: information about this case. People were very uh wanted to
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Speaker 1: get uh really want to get involved, and they want
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Speaker 1: to kind of tell us what they knew. And it
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Speaker 1: was extremely helpful because we end up identifying witnesses or
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Speaker 1: people who had information about the case and I've never
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Speaker 1: come forward, So they end up coming forward and telling
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Speaker 1: us their story. And that's one of the things we've
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Speaker 1: run into this case. In many cases, it is like
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Speaker 1: people don't think their information or what they know might
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Speaker 1: be might not be important. Well it wasn't this case,
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Speaker 1: and uh it's helped us recreate some of the timeline
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Speaker 1: and what happened on that weekend and then uh right
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Speaker 1: up to the point where Natalie Wood ends up going
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Speaker 1: into the water. So it's uh, it's been extremely helpful
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Speaker 1: for us. No, this was back in two thousand eleven,
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Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, two thousand thirteen. You know, it's been
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Speaker 1: a little while, but we've been investigating the case, and
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Speaker 1: up until about a year and a half ago, we
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Speaker 1: were still getting information and tips from people calling in,
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Speaker 1: although they were just trickling in then and things have
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Speaker 1: kind of dried up now. So we were approached by
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Speaker 1: a news agency you want to uh take another look
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Speaker 1: at the case. We thought it was a good a
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Speaker 1: good idea to try and go ahead and do that
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Speaker 1: and get it back out in the public eye. And
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Speaker 1: that's what we did. Uh. We thought it was a
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Speaker 1: good idea just let everyone know kind of where we're
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Speaker 1: at with the investigation and that's why we're here today, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: That news organization was the CBS show forty eight hours
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Speaker 1: and Los Angeles County Sheriff's Detective John Corrina continues answering
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Speaker 1: questions from reporters. Well, there's new witnesses and um there
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Speaker 1: has we have looked at um really what we've we
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Speaker 1: We've interviewed a lot of new people and people on
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Speaker 1: the island, people who were moving moored near the boat,
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Speaker 1: uh that night or that weekend, people who had a
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Speaker 1: knew the couple or had knowledge of what was going
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Speaker 1: on that weekend. So it's been extremely helpful in recreating
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Speaker 1: what happened. So in the forty hours before, there was
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Speaker 1: this discussion about these two individuals, the woman saying that
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Speaker 1: she had seen Mr or seen two people a man
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Speaker 1: and a woman on the back of the boat. They
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Speaker 1: heard the voices that identified they would and and Uhager,
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Speaker 1: who is this person? How is it that they didn't
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Speaker 1: think that was important in one and is there any
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Speaker 1: discussion about re interviewing UM. Well, the first part of
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Speaker 1: that question is there there's actually more than one witness
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Speaker 1: and who came forward and heard the good on the
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Speaker 1: back of the boat arguing and they What was important
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Speaker 1: about that is, uh, they corroborate what Dennis the Burn
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Speaker 1: was saying that he was on the boat and heard
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Speaker 1: the arguing and that is really intense and so bad
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Speaker 1: that he had went down to the cabin to check
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Speaker 1: on them because he was worried there was some kind
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Speaker 1: of assault going on, and that's when he was told
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Speaker 1: to go away by Robert Wagner and then Natalie Robert
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Speaker 1: Wagner end up on the back of the boat arguing
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Speaker 1: and then it goes quiet. So those witnesses, we are
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Speaker 1: on a different boat nearby, corrob rate exactly what Dennis
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Speaker 1: and Vernon was telling us. Um, And yes, of course
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Speaker 1: we want to talk to Robert Wagner we met. We
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Speaker 1: would love to hear his side of his version of events.
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Speaker 1: The universial events he's he's put up trading the media.
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Speaker 1: I think, Um, we told that the Visional investigators and
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Speaker 1: we's he's portrayed since then really don't add up to
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Speaker 1: what we found or what we we would we found
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Speaker 1: by talking to other people and uh that weekend, what
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Speaker 1: they've seen, what they saw, what they heard. Lieutenant Corona
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Speaker 1: and his partner, Detective Ralph fer Nandez now say they
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Speaker 1: have testimony from two witnesses, both both of whom say
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Speaker 1: they heard a fight, one of him, according to her
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Speaker 1: Nandez quote, saw figures on the back of the Splendor,
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Speaker 1: a male and a female whose voices they recognized as
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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood arguing important in the back
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Speaker 1: of the boat. Originally, the only information detectives had placing
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Speaker 1: the couple outside the boat was boat captain Dennis di
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Speaker 1: verne statement, But as Detective Corina tells forty eight hours,
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Speaker 1: they now have a witness who not only heard them,
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Speaker 1: but saw them. Saw figures in the back of the Splendor,
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Speaker 1: male and a female whose voices they recognized as being
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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood arguing in the back of
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Speaker 1: the boat. And how credible are these new witnesses. They're
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Speaker 1: they're very credible under reason to lie in the in
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Speaker 1: the their story matches what Dennis de Verne says, like
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Speaker 1: to vern, both witnesses say the argument stopped suddenly, and
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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden there was nothing, complete silence,
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Speaker 1: nothing but the sounds of a rough sea on a cold,
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Speaker 1: dark November nine, says the tennant Corina. No one saw
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Speaker 1: anybody go on the water. Nob we heard splash, Nobody
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Speaker 1: heard anything. They heard the argument and send silence. Joseph
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics at Jacksonville State University. That is big,
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, and I'll tell you why it places him.
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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner, the p o I person of interest at
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Speaker 1: the back of the yacht, where the dinghy is tied
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Speaker 1: up and where many people believe that's where she exited.
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Speaker 1: Let me say euphemistically, the boat right there at the dinghy.
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Speaker 1: He according to these two witnesses, not me, not Alan,
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Speaker 1: not Jackie, not Brian or anyone else too. Witnesses place
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Speaker 1: them at the back of the yacht, at the spot
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Speaker 1: of the dinghy, arguing in the night she goes overboard
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Speaker 1: along with the dinghy being let loose. That's bad. I
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Speaker 1: think from an investor stigative standpoint, I would have to
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Speaker 1: ask this question, though, how did the people that are
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Speaker 1: earwitnesses eyewitnesses, How did they recognize, specifically the voices of
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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood distinguish them from all other
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Speaker 1: voices on the face of the planet. I would I
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Speaker 1: would have to press that question. Uh, maybe they did
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Speaker 1: here arguing, uh, maybe they did bear witness to it.
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Speaker 1: But I think that that's gonna be a big question
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Speaker 1: that's gonna come up all of a sudden, This kind
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Speaker 1: of floats to the surface, all of a sudden, these
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Speaker 1: these two people that materialize. It leaves me scratching my
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Speaker 1: head a bit here. What we do know, uh, in
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Speaker 1: this particular case, is that the I've examined the autopsy
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Speaker 1: report many times on Natalie Wood and and even use
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Speaker 1: it in class to teach my classes with. She doesn't
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Speaker 1: have what we would commonly refer to as some kind
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Speaker 1: of fatal trauma, uh, where she's been hammered to the point,
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Speaker 1: beaten to the point where she is has a depressed
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Speaker 1: skull fracturing. I think most of the stuff that she
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Speaker 1: has are very superficial. But her lungs were filled with water.
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Speaker 1: We do know that, Nancy. We also know from the
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Speaker 1: ship Captain Dennis Diverne the details about the argument that
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Speaker 1: night after the couple and Christopher Walking returned from the
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Speaker 1: restaurant on the island. Here's how he and Detective Corina
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Speaker 1: explain it. To forty eight hours, Natalie puts on the
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Speaker 1: kettle to have a cup of tea, I light a
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Speaker 1: couple of candles, I opened a bottle of wine. Natalie
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Speaker 1: and Christopher continued to giggle, just having fun, and then
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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner, out of the clear blue, picked up the
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Speaker 1: bottle of wine, smashed her to break some goals everywhere,
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Speaker 1: and he yells at Walking, what do you try to do?
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Speaker 1: The wife? Everything just kind of stops Natalie. She said,
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Speaker 1: I cannot take this, and she went into her room.
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Speaker 1: According to Diverne, Christopher Walking also went to his room.
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Speaker 1: Then r J went into the room. Natalie and r
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Speaker 1: J's room started arguing, yelling, things being thrown about. At
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Speaker 1: that point, de Verne also leaves and goes up to
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Speaker 1: the bridge at the top of the boat, says Lieutenant Carina.
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Speaker 1: He hears the argue in the argument getting louder, and
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Speaker 1: he hears a lot of thumping. He says it sounds
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Speaker 1: to him like there's like a fizzle fight going on
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Speaker 1: inside there, to the point where he's so concerned. He
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Speaker 1: he walks back down and he knocks on the door,
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Speaker 1: and Robert Wagen opens the door, and he says he
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Speaker 1: has this looked crazy look on his face, and he says,
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Speaker 1: is everything okay? Boss? And he's like, go away. He
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Speaker 1: looks so angry. He says, I was worried about my
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Speaker 1: own safety that I just I left. I went back
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Speaker 1: up to the bridge. Take a listen to what Robert
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Speaker 1: Wagner himself says. Now his account of that evening is
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Speaker 1: very different. Walking and I got into an argument. At
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Speaker 1: one point, I picked up a wine bottle, slammed it
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Speaker 1: on the table and broke it into pieces. Natalie was
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Speaker 1: already below decks at that point. Ellen Kilaurin joining me
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Speaker 1: investigate a reporter with crime online dot Com. What do
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Speaker 1: you make of that? Well, Wagner had changed his story
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Speaker 1: a little bit even in the in the time when
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Speaker 1: he was speaking to investigators. Initially, he said that he
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Speaker 1: felt that Natalie wanted to get away from the argument
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Speaker 1: that she had been having with him all weekend and
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Speaker 1: went back to shore, went back to land. And then
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Speaker 1: later he said, well, maybe she went out in heard
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Speaker 1: the dinghy banking against the boat, tried to untie it
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Speaker 1: and slip and fell. Yes, you know, Ellen. In his
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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight memoir, Wagner addressed the dinghy theory.
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Speaker 1: Let's listen, Natalie was in the master cabin and heard
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Speaker 1: the dinghy banging against the side. She got up to
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Speaker 1: retie it, she slipped on the swim step on the
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Speaker 1: stern and was either stunned or knocked on conscious and
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Speaker 1: rolled into the water. The loose stingy floated away. My
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Speaker 1: theory fits the few facts we have. Those are two
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Speaker 1: really different things, and both of them seemed pretty incredible
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Speaker 1: given what we know about Natalie, which was that she
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Speaker 1: was absolutely terrified of the water. And even if she
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Speaker 1: did hear the dinghy bangy against the boat, and when
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Speaker 1: she and wanted the noise to stop, she could have
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Speaker 1: asked the captain to do that. She didn't have to
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Speaker 1: go do that on her own. I think that I'd
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Speaker 1: be very curious Nancy if she was debilitated in some
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Speaker 1: way hampered. Uh. And that's the big question I've you know,
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Speaker 1: I've I've asked for some time. Uh. Could drugs or
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Speaker 1: alcohol have played into this? I don't know that that
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Speaker 1: she had enough enough substances on board, uh to have
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Speaker 1: on her in her system that would have impaired her
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Speaker 1: ability to make good judgments here. Uh. And you know,
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Speaker 1: it just seems the whole thing seems like a red herring. Uh.
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Speaker 1: You know, for all these years, they're talking about two
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Speaker 1: guys having an argument over the wife and uh and
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Speaker 1: and suddenly you know, the dinghiest cut loose. She's found
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Speaker 1: floating in the water some period of tom later. It's
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Speaker 1: all very confusing. I don't find it that confusing. And
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Speaker 1: Dennis davern Uh came clean long ago. Take a listen.
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Speaker 1: I believe that Robert Wagner was with her up until
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Speaker 1: the moment she went into the water. I need all
13:30
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Speaker 1: com today. After years of investigation, in The Last Hours,
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Speaker 1: movie and TV star Robert Wagner named a person of
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Speaker 1: interest and the horrific drowning death of his wife movie
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Speaker 1: icon Natalie would how do you see Robert? Is he is? He?
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Speaker 1: As fact? Before he bet? A first of interest was
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Speaker 1: how do you well? He hasn't He hasn't always been
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Speaker 1: a person of interest. Obviously he was on the boat
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Speaker 1: or four people on the boat that night, one of
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Speaker 1: them ended up in the water debt um uh so.
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Speaker 1: But as the investigation progress, I mean, we were able
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Speaker 1: to recreate timeline and cut get it down to where
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Speaker 1: he was the last person with her on the back
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Speaker 1: of the boat, arguing before everything went quiet, and then
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Speaker 1: next thing you know, there's the bird comes down to
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Speaker 1: check on what happened, and there's Robert Wagner in the
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Speaker 1: salon of the boat. He's saying, Natalie's gone, she's missing,
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Speaker 1: you know, and then uh, he sends him to go
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Speaker 1: look around the boat to look for Natalie. It's not
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Speaker 1: that big of a boat. And next thing you know,
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Speaker 1: he tells moh and by the way, that Danny has
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Speaker 1: now done so it didn't make any sense knowing her.
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Speaker 1: The dan start up knowing her the d uh take off?
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Speaker 1: She she doesn't drive the dinghy um, I get one
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Speaker 1: and on. But yeah, it's just in uh right, now
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Speaker 1: he's officially a person of interest. Well is he's the
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Speaker 1: person interest because he's a last person with her before
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Speaker 1: she went in the water, right, so he's there, he's
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Speaker 1: the last one with her, and somehow she gets a
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Speaker 1: little water between a person. Well, you know, this is
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Speaker 1: a suspicious tenth investigation. It's not a murder investigation, so
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Speaker 1: he's not a suspect of vodka committing of murder or crime.
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Speaker 1: We're just trying to figure out what happened from that point.
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Speaker 1: From that argument and then how she got in the water.
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Speaker 1: But what the person just that he's a person of interest,
16:59
Speaker 1: like uh, he was there with her, last person with
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Speaker 1: her before she ends up debt. Can you make him
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Speaker 1: talk to you? That the perfect because he's denied. Not
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Speaker 1: in the United States of America, we can't. No, he can.
17:12
Speaker 1: He can say, uh, no, I don't want to talk
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Speaker 1: to you. So and that's his right. We understand that.
17:16
Speaker 1: And we've tried to talk to him, and so far
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Speaker 1: he's uh didn't want he didn't want to talk to
17:21
Speaker 1: us a point where he decided we want to press
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Speaker 1: charges against him? No, he thought that. No, not right now.
17:27
Speaker 1: That's like I said, it's suspicious death investigation. We're not
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Speaker 1: pressing charges on anyone. We're still trying to just figure
17:33
Speaker 1: out what happened in this case. But it's so far
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Speaker 1: was that being would you say, there's anything of the
17:41
Speaker 1: evidence that you have so far, physical evidence which would
17:46
Speaker 1: indicate to where aggressive actions taken with the death? Well
17:51
Speaker 1: there you know that that's um there were Yeah, I
17:55
Speaker 1: would have to say, um, there was what Dennister Burne hurt.
18:00
Speaker 1: You know, it sounded like a fight going on in
18:01
Speaker 1: the Salanta and uh in their stateroom and their bedroom
18:05
Speaker 1: sounded like Robert Wagner and Atalie Wood were fighting, and
18:08
Speaker 1: he came down from the top of the boat to
18:10
Speaker 1: check on him because he was woke so worried. He said,
18:13
Speaker 1: Robert Wagner looked so angry, so crazy that he told
18:15
Speaker 1: him he was afraid for his own safety. So he
18:17
Speaker 1: went back up and Wagner to help get out of here.
18:20
Speaker 1: So he went back up to the top of the boat.
18:22
Speaker 1: And then they end up by the back of the
18:23
Speaker 1: boat arguing before everything went quiet. And then yes, there
18:26
Speaker 1: were bruises on Natalie Wood's body. That um now, that's
18:31
Speaker 1: that's that's the corner's per view of Obviously they're the experts,
18:34
Speaker 1: but they said that. They say they're non mechanical, they
18:36
Speaker 1: aren't caused probably by another person whoever was there at
18:42
Speaker 1: the end of it would have inflicted those injuries, which
18:45
Speaker 1: could be consistent struggled fight or someone off of that boat. Yeah,
18:53
Speaker 1: I can't say who who could cause the injuries, but uh,
18:56
Speaker 1: they may have been. They could have been caused by
18:58
Speaker 1: someone else's people in the vote, right, and we we
19:02
Speaker 1: know who's living Before she went. The last person was
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Speaker 1: water boing with the water that was Mr Wagner in
19:09
Speaker 1: this case. Today we were three years ago, we're closer
19:12
Speaker 1: to understanding what happened. I think we're closer to understanding
19:15
Speaker 1: and exactly what happened at weekend and how it kind
19:17
Speaker 1: of went down. I think before we're all bleeding the story. Oh,
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Speaker 1: she must have gotten to day, tried to go into
19:22
Speaker 1: town in her nightgown, her socks by herself when it's
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Speaker 1: raining out and the seas are really rough in there.
19:28
Speaker 1: It's uh, you can't even see in the mid at midnight,
19:31
Speaker 1: and um, which made no absolutely no sense if you
19:34
Speaker 1: really think about it. So um, I think we'll have
19:36
Speaker 1: a better understanding that what happened doesn't us No, he's
19:42
Speaker 1: not no he uh. He was actually supposed to be
19:45
Speaker 1: in the stayroom sleeping, and the diverne confirmed now, but
19:47
Speaker 1: he went searching for Natalie Wood. He was in the
19:49
Speaker 1: stayroom sleeping, two witnesses, he said, and separate from into
19:55
Speaker 1: her previous need quoted at the stuff right that boyfriend job, Yes, separately, Yes,
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Speaker 1: her face that you believe will causepect someone else, and
20:10
Speaker 1: you sounds like you don't believe that she got in
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Speaker 1: the day. What is it gonna take this to be
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Speaker 1: a murder investigation, and then at that point could Wagner
20:18
Speaker 1: being suspect and then he'll be forced to talk to you. No,
20:22
Speaker 1: we can never force him to talk to us. Obviously
20:24
Speaker 1: he's uh, he has rights and he can he can
20:27
Speaker 1: not talk to us. He doesn't want to, um suspect
20:30
Speaker 1: or not. But no, onetime it's gonna turn out to be,
20:33
Speaker 1: you know, to does he need an accident or murder?
20:37
Speaker 1: Is we find out how she went the water? Is
20:39
Speaker 1: she was she placed in the water? Was she unconscious
20:41
Speaker 1: and then placed in the water. Was she put in
20:43
Speaker 1: the water by somebody? Um so? Or did she accidentally
20:47
Speaker 1: fall the water and nobody helped her? Body relevant inform
20:55
Speaker 1: I'm try was that interview? No, we have note we
21:06
Speaker 1: have got a lot of a lot of calls, people
21:08
Speaker 1: calling him and saying they have some information and give
21:11
Speaker 1: us Yes, so we haven't been picking up quite a
21:13
Speaker 1: few callers, people leaving chills. You were his story over
21:19
Speaker 1: the years, Well, uh, I'm no expert on this, but
21:26
Speaker 1: I know his original story. What he said that happened
21:30
Speaker 1: that weekend? Uh, you know they're all talking in the salon.
21:33
Speaker 1: She went down the load of the bed. The statement
21:35
Speaker 1: in her bedroom and next thing he knows, he goes
21:36
Speaker 1: checks on her and she's gone, and so he figures, oh,
21:39
Speaker 1: she must have gotten Dany win the town in her pajamas,
21:42
Speaker 1: in her socks at the middle of the night for
21:44
Speaker 1: some reason. She's telling in the training now she's gonna
21:46
Speaker 1: go take the dan, but she never drives. But he
21:49
Speaker 1: doesn't knew how to drive it and take it into
21:51
Speaker 1: town when the when the verne suggests, hey, we should
21:54
Speaker 1: turn on the light to look for he says, no, no, no,
21:58
Speaker 1: he said, of saying yeah, let's look for no, no,
21:59
Speaker 1: no in the light on, Well, he says we should
22:02
Speaker 1: call somebody. All his weight and and and he's on
22:06
Speaker 1: the boat himself. He can hook his own boat and
22:08
Speaker 1: go look for it. He doesn't even do that, and
22:10
Speaker 1: Steady takes to burn up to the top of the boat,
22:12
Speaker 1: starts playing with alcohol for next hour and a half,
22:14
Speaker 1: getting him drunk while they wait around see what happens.
22:17
Speaker 1: I want to go straight to Ellen Kilaurin joining me,
22:20
Speaker 1: investigative reporter with crime online dot Com. Also with me,
22:24
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan Dessin, investigator, a professor of forensics at
22:29
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University. Dr Brian Russell, lawyer and psychologist and
22:34
Speaker 1: host of i d S hit series Fatal Vows. Alan
22:38
Speaker 1: and Jackie joining in, Ellen, what can you tell me
22:42
Speaker 1: about recent reports that have also just hit that. Robert
22:46
Speaker 1: Wagner says he drank whiskey for an hour after Anally's vanishing.
22:52
Speaker 1: That's right, um, this um in forty eight hour special
22:55
Speaker 1: to speak on the captain of the Splendor. Dennis Deverne,
22:59
Speaker 1: who has set for a long time that he believed
23:01
Speaker 1: Wagner had something to do with it, said in the
23:04
Speaker 1: show that he that Wagner knew around midnight that Natalie
23:09
Speaker 1: was gone, but he refused to do anything to look
23:12
Speaker 1: for her in the water. Daverne said, let's put on
23:14
Speaker 1: the floodlights and look at look into the water, and
23:16
Speaker 1: he said, no, no, no, she's probably just gone to shore.
23:19
Speaker 1: And the two of them sat for over an hour
23:21
Speaker 1: and drink whiskey before Wagner made a call to anyone,
23:25
Speaker 1: which was about it one thirty before he called anyone
23:27
Speaker 1: at all. Okay, to me, that's damning, but it's certainly
23:31
Speaker 1: not enough to build a case at trial. That's not
23:36
Speaker 1: enough to prosecute Actor Robert Wagner. Wagner, now facing intense
23:43
Speaker 1: pressure regarding the boating death of his beautiful actress wife
23:48
Speaker 1: Natalie Wood, allegations servicing, he sat up drinking whiskey with
23:53
Speaker 1: the boat captain over an hour after Nally goes missing
23:58
Speaker 1: before decided to call the coastguard. Now, the yachts captain
24:02
Speaker 1: told me that himself. But listen to what he says
24:06
Speaker 1: on forty hours, according to the story de Verne told investigators,
24:10
Speaker 1: Wagner then breaks out a bottle of Scotch and the
24:15
Speaker 1: two men sit drinking. Well more than an hour passes
24:20
Speaker 1: before you know what. We're oblivious, and it's time we
24:24
Speaker 1: have to call somebody. She's gone. We've long heard claims
24:30
Speaker 1: that Robert Wagner, furious believing that Naliewood was floirting with
24:35
Speaker 1: her co star in Brainstorm, Christopher Walking, that he smashed
24:39
Speaker 1: a bottle of wine in front of them and said, Walking,
24:42
Speaker 1: what are you trying to do f my wife? Well,
24:45
Speaker 1: I guess that's the end of that party, right, Dr
24:48
Speaker 1: Brian Russell. I mean when someone he smashes a wine
24:53
Speaker 1: bottle in front of your guest and accuses them of
24:55
Speaker 1: trying to be with their wife. Yeah, that's the end
24:59
Speaker 1: of that party, right, Yeah, and it really does. You're right,
25:02
Speaker 1: it's uh, this is damning stuff and it paints a
25:05
Speaker 1: picture of a potential and at least you hear this
25:08
Speaker 1: and you can understand how it could have been a
25:10
Speaker 1: fatal Vows case. At the same time, I'm worried, as
25:14
Speaker 1: you know, we've discussed this before about this Russell. Dr Russell,
25:19
Speaker 1: how is it that you managed to work in the
25:21
Speaker 1: name fatal Vows into every conversation you would? Somehow you
25:25
Speaker 1: work in investigation, discoveries, fatal Vows hit series. Okay, you
25:29
Speaker 1: know what there? I think I've said it enough. I'll
25:31
Speaker 1: say it some more. Okay, Dr Brian Russell, how should
25:34
Speaker 1: this have been in your hit series fatal Vows? Go ahead?
25:38
Speaker 1: Well more is yours? I don't know that it should.
25:40
Speaker 1: And what I was gonna say is, I'm worried about
25:43
Speaker 1: this trend that we're seeing where you know, a crime
25:49
Speaker 1: happens a long time ago, and now here comes somebody
25:52
Speaker 1: making a documentary or a Netflix series or a podcast
25:57
Speaker 1: or whatever about it, and all all of a sudden,
26:01
Speaker 1: we're getting news stories from the same people or different
26:04
Speaker 1: stories from different people, And now there's a big if.
26:08
Speaker 1: If it's somebody was found guilty before and now there's
26:10
Speaker 1: a bunch of big exculpatory evidence, or if nobody was
26:13
Speaker 1: found guilty before and now there's damning evidence. I'm worried
26:17
Speaker 1: about that trend, and I don't I agree with you.
26:21
Speaker 1: As interesting television as this may have made for forty
26:24
Speaker 1: eight hours, I'm worried about putting too much stock in it,
26:28
Speaker 1: especially when people are telling stories for the first time
26:31
Speaker 1: that they supposedly have known for all these years, and
26:34
Speaker 1: just now they're deciding when they have a chance to
26:36
Speaker 1: be in a television spacy. Hey, hey, hey, right it in.
26:39
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell. Curb your enthusiasm just a moment. It's
26:43
Speaker 1: not all on forty eight hours. What about what police say?
26:47
Speaker 1: Listen to Lieutenant Corona and his partner, Detective Ralph Fernandez.
26:53
Speaker 1: Mr Wagner reviews the community body. I think we've we've
26:58
Speaker 1: talked about these two or three times, and uh threw
27:01
Speaker 1: him into his attorney and uh he's refused talked to
27:05
Speaker 1: us and these two new witnesses as an investigator thirty
27:10
Speaker 1: years as the last and suddenly they remember something that
27:14
Speaker 1: it's very interesting to you. I mean people tend to
27:18
Speaker 1: change or view of things as time goes on. And
27:21
Speaker 1: maybe they mean how credible or the new witness our
27:25
Speaker 1: biggest our biggest challenges time right for maybe the witnesses
27:28
Speaker 1: have passed away, people are with boats nearby. UM regional
27:32
Speaker 1: investigator on the case passed away recently. So it's like, UM,
27:36
Speaker 1: you're right, the times our biggest enemy here. We're going
27:39
Speaker 1: to do what we can do. So we're reaching out
27:43
Speaker 1: when last time, see if people anybody else will come
27:45
Speaker 1: forward with information they know. Like I said, we already
27:47
Speaker 1: getting a bunch of more calls just by doing this.
27:50
Speaker 1: Uh and um people are calling in and and offering
27:54
Speaker 1: some some information. So and his production you have today
27:59
Speaker 1: you can m called this a homicide or charge Mr Wagner. Yeah, correct,
28:07
Speaker 1: that's right. Uh, well I was one of the unsolved homicide.
28:23
Speaker 1: May add why park spending time on one? Um? Hm,
28:31
Speaker 1: you know, we we were asked back in two thousand
28:33
Speaker 1: eleven to look in this cases. That's something when we
28:35
Speaker 1: went out and saw it. We were asked by the
28:38
Speaker 1: Captain then of homicide back in two thousand eleven and
28:41
Speaker 1: take a look at the case because some information came in. UM,
28:44
Speaker 1: I wasn't even on the department, and I know Detective
28:46
Speaker 1: Naz was on the department when this this incident even happened.
28:49
Speaker 1: So we looked at it and said, yeah, there's some
28:51
Speaker 1: there's some questions there, so we're taking a look at
28:54
Speaker 1: So we did, and UM, I think it's just opened
28:57
Speaker 1: up more questions and we actually I think we've from
29:00
Speaker 1: the investigation, we have a much better idea of what happened. Man,
29:03
Speaker 1: So I think it's been very productive. Um it's it's
29:06
Speaker 1: actually made um give us more questions and made as
29:10
Speaker 1: more suspicious of what happened that weekend anything without saying public,
29:16
Speaker 1: is there a formal time based on all this information
29:20
Speaker 1: that you're now assessed where you're gonna have to make
29:22
Speaker 1: a decision for fiscal or other reasons to picture to
29:25
Speaker 1: faith close this case permanently or continue to go ahead. Right,
29:30
Speaker 1: I think you know we're doing our last uh shot
29:32
Speaker 1: here and seeing when anybody else come forward with any information.
29:35
Speaker 1: But you're right, we can't keep work in this case
29:38
Speaker 1: when we work a lot of cases, and we juggle
29:39
Speaker 1: a lot of cases, so we're not just working as
29:41
Speaker 1: one we're doing other cases as well. So, UM, you
29:45
Speaker 1: know we Uh, we work what weekend there's information to
29:47
Speaker 1: follow up on me will and when the tips I'll
29:49
Speaker 1: dry up and then I guess we move on the
29:51
Speaker 1: next one. Next case. That pyday, we focused the people
29:54
Speaker 1: on Cadi and Doug Barmbar, one of the bounder bodygas career,
29:57
Speaker 1: boken to him he friendly believe who the evidence would
30:00
Speaker 1: suggest that that the others were asleep on the boat.
30:04
Speaker 1: But it was so roughing in the water, and the
30:06
Speaker 1: dinghy was banging around, and she went back and try
30:09
Speaker 1: to tie up the movie and it fell off the
30:11
Speaker 1: boat in her head on the water and round does
30:15
Speaker 1: not support that there, no, it doesn't this this is
30:17
Speaker 1: all conjecture. Let's just make you know, let's make up
30:19
Speaker 1: a story that I think might have happened. Um No,
30:21
Speaker 1: one doesn't support that. And Netalie Woods a big movie star.
30:24
Speaker 1: We will remember back then she's like one of the
30:26
Speaker 1: biggest movie stars and she doesn't do that kind of stuff.
30:29
Speaker 1: She's gonna tell Dennis the vern he's the boatcaretaker, take
30:32
Speaker 1: care of that boat. And even the Verne said the
30:35
Speaker 1: boat was not banging on the boat. The thinking was
30:39
Speaker 1: not being on the boat. They tie it there all
30:41
Speaker 1: the time. That's where they tie it, and they know
30:42
Speaker 1: what they're doing. They go out all the time on
30:44
Speaker 1: the boat. It's not like you can't just make up
30:47
Speaker 1: a story that I think that's what happened. What do
30:48
Speaker 1: you make of it? Dr Russell? The idea that there
30:51
Speaker 1: was an argument aboard this vessel between Wagner and Wood
30:55
Speaker 1: is not new. That's been out there for decades. The
30:59
Speaker 1: big supposedly new news here is that Wagner supposedly sat
31:05
Speaker 1: there drinking for a long time before saying, okay, we
31:08
Speaker 1: better maybe alert the authorities that she's missing. Now you
31:12
Speaker 1: can imagine that that perhaps he had something to do
31:16
Speaker 1: with it, and so he thinks, Okay, I don't want
31:18
Speaker 1: to alert the authorities for a while, because I want
31:20
Speaker 1: to make sure that she's good and dead before they
31:23
Speaker 1: show up on the scene. Don't want him to rescue her. Okay. Maybe,
31:27
Speaker 1: But it's also possible that he really believed that she
31:30
Speaker 1: left on her own volition, and and he was miffed
31:33
Speaker 1: about that, and he thought, well, you know, okay, she
31:36
Speaker 1: took off, she went ashore, she's she's doing what she
31:39
Speaker 1: wants to do, and and he's drowning his sorrows and
31:43
Speaker 1: alcohol and then after a while he he sort of thinks, well,
31:46
Speaker 1: you know, I better make sure she made it to
31:48
Speaker 1: shore safely. I'd better call the authorities and have him
31:50
Speaker 1: look for so you know, the bottom line of this
31:53
Speaker 1: for me is, I don't think we're gonna solve this
31:56
Speaker 1: unless he had something to do with it and he
31:58
Speaker 1: comes clean and confess. Is all these years later, I
32:02
Speaker 1: don't think we're solving it. Take a listen to what
32:05
Speaker 1: the person of interest, Natalie's husband, Robert Wagner TV star,
32:10
Speaker 1: has to say. When you're in love, you're responsible for
32:12
Speaker 1: the other one. She's responsible for me, and I was
32:14
Speaker 1: responsible for her, and you know this accident that occurred,
32:22
Speaker 1: I wasn't there. I wasn't there for her, and that's
32:27
Speaker 1: always within me. Take a listen to it. Natalie's sister
32:31
Speaker 1: Laana would tells us Laana, is it true that detectives
32:38
Speaker 1: told you they were very close to making an arrest
32:41
Speaker 1: in the case. Absolutely. They came to my home and
32:46
Speaker 1: said that they had everything they needed for an arrest
32:51
Speaker 1: and that the district attorney would not move forward. And
32:54
Speaker 1: I said, I don't understand, and he said, please get
33:00
Speaker 1: a word out, because they feel that there's something going on,
33:04
Speaker 1: and I said, fine, if somebody asks me, I will,
33:09
Speaker 1: I will tell them. So they came to your house
33:11
Speaker 1: and said they have enough for an arrest, but the
33:14
Speaker 1: d A is sitting on it. Yes, did you believe
33:18
Speaker 1: that they were referring to Robert Wagner. Did they tell
33:20
Speaker 1: you as Robert Wagner? Oh, of course, yes, yes, they
33:23
Speaker 1: told you as Robert Wagen. They said Nancy, Natalie's sister
33:27
Speaker 1: Lana Wood is now back with us. Miss Wood. What
33:30
Speaker 1: is your initial reaction to hearing this Los Angeles County
33:35
Speaker 1: Sheriff's news conference. Um, that's that's actually a very complicated answer.
33:42
Speaker 1: My first reaction is I'm incredibly grateful to them for
33:48
Speaker 1: this amount of time. The person variance um that they've shown,
33:54
Speaker 1: the work that they've put into this case, I think
33:58
Speaker 1: is absolutely um. Every time I hear something new, it's upsetting,
34:04
Speaker 1: it's jarring, it's you know, I'm so torn at everything
34:10
Speaker 1: because I know that it causes me pain, it causes
34:16
Speaker 1: my family, it causes Natalie's family. But it's really really
34:23
Speaker 1: at the point where enough is enough. You know, the
34:27
Speaker 1: truth has to come out. If I've got a fight
34:31
Speaker 1: for it, I will. I have to you know set
34:35
Speaker 1: aside um a lot of things that that I've never
34:41
Speaker 1: never really wanted to entertain and and and go forward
34:48
Speaker 1: and try try everything I possibly can to get at
34:54
Speaker 1: the truth. It's just there are too many things about
34:58
Speaker 1: all of this that have always bothered of me. But
35:01
Speaker 1: I've never had a voice like that of the detectives
35:05
Speaker 1: who have said, you know this fact, this fact, this fact,
35:09
Speaker 1: this act. Well, you can't ignore that. I don't understand
35:13
Speaker 1: how anyone can. Um. I know it's an ugly thing
35:18
Speaker 1: to face, but it's something that happened, and I think
35:22
Speaker 1: it's the time we all face it. Miss. What do
35:24
Speaker 1: you expect that Robert Wagner will finally set for an
35:28
Speaker 1: interview with the Sheriff's investigators. I don't know. He never has.
35:34
Speaker 1: He has lied to my face. Um, his attorneys have
35:40
Speaker 1: you know, dodged around saying he's cooperating. No, he didn't.
35:46
Speaker 1: He cooperated at the initial investigation thirty odd years ago.
35:54
Speaker 1: He has never cooperated. But yet he looked me in
35:58
Speaker 1: the face and said he did. This simply astounds me
36:03
Speaker 1: because I do have a great belief in the truth,
36:09
Speaker 1: and I don't understand. There are many things I don't
36:13
Speaker 1: understand about things that have happened. Um, Seriously, if my
36:20
Speaker 1: dog fell overboard on a boat during the middle of
36:25
Speaker 1: the night, in a cold, dark I would be in
36:28
Speaker 1: the water trying to get that dog. I don't know
36:32
Speaker 1: of anybody who wouldn't. Natalie was his wife. It was
36:38
Speaker 1: then when they found her. Why why didn't he Why
36:43
Speaker 1: did he go to her and and stay with her
36:49
Speaker 1: with her body? You know, I don't understand any of
36:53
Speaker 1: this behavior. Why you know, I just don't understand any
36:59
Speaker 1: of it. You would think that, you know, you would
37:03
Speaker 1: do anything on earth if someone was investigating to help.
37:07
Speaker 1: Why is me helping? Why does he refuse to do that?
37:11
Speaker 1: Miss would after all of these years to hear this
37:14
Speaker 1: news conference by investigators. Is it satisfying in some way
37:19
Speaker 1: or just bitter sweet? Bitter sweet? Yes, but yes it is. Um.
37:26
Speaker 1: I don't know if satisfying is the proper word that
37:29
Speaker 1: I would use, but it's it's it's jarring, but it
37:34
Speaker 1: also as it also gives me hope, and I've never
37:41
Speaker 1: had hope. I buried my head in the sand. I've
37:44
Speaker 1: not wanted to deal with it. I don't want to hurt.
37:48
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this. I don't want to
37:50
Speaker 1: do that. Well, that attitude is over, you know, it's
37:57
Speaker 1: this has given me um a new leaky fun wife. Um.
38:05
Speaker 1: This is this has got to be seen through. And
38:10
Speaker 1: I've got to stand up for Nadily. And I wish,
38:14
Speaker 1: I wish r J would have the courage to say
38:18
Speaker 1: what happened. And if he's made mistakes, he should have
38:21
Speaker 1: the courage to admit them. You know, I want to
38:27
Speaker 1: wring my hands. I become so frustrated, but I'm also
38:32
Speaker 1: hopeful at the same time, which is why I said
38:34
Speaker 1: initially the you know, the answer is complicated, lots of
38:38
Speaker 1: different feelings all at once. Robert Wagner, he is not
38:42
Speaker 1: a suspect. He is a person of interest. And now
38:46
Speaker 1: we had to California where and allegedly suicidal twenty eight
38:52
Speaker 1: year old woman killed a father of two and aspiring
38:57
Speaker 1: doctor by in an attempt to kill herself, drives the
39:00
Speaker 1: wrong way up an interstate where people are going and smashing, colliding,
39:08
Speaker 1: crashing head on into this father of two's car. Grace
39:14
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Ward allegedly drives directly into oncoming traffic on Interstate
39:20
Speaker 1: five near Read in California, just killing. It's horrible a
39:27
Speaker 1: father of two, Ryan Fulsome, and a head on collision,
39:31
Speaker 1: allegedly driving straight through a central barrier to carry out
39:36
Speaker 1: her deadly maneuver. Fulsome was on his way to an
39:40
Speaker 1: interview an aspiring doctor. His wife is pregnant with their
39:46
Speaker 1: third child. And all that happens to Grace Elizabeth Ward
39:52
Speaker 1: on her suicidal mission. She gets a broken leg. That's it.
39:58
Speaker 1: Why straight to John Limley Crime Stories investigative reporter. Take
40:03
Speaker 1: it from the top, John, What happened Nancy? All of
40:05
Speaker 1: this took place on a Sunday near the city of
40:08
Speaker 1: Reading in northern California. That former college football star and
40:12
Speaker 1: young father, Ryan Folsom was on Interstate five heading to
40:18
Speaker 1: an interview for a residency position as a doctor. At
40:23
Speaker 1: the same time, Grace Elizabeth Ward is in her car,
40:27
Speaker 1: also on I five. She's heading north on the highway
40:32
Speaker 1: when all of a sudden, she steers her car into
40:35
Speaker 1: the cable that divides the north and southbound lanes. She
40:39
Speaker 1: hits the cable, but it doesn't break. She drives a
40:43
Speaker 1: little further. She finds an opening uh in the cable
40:46
Speaker 1: meant for emergency vehicles. She drives through and stops on
40:51
Speaker 1: the other side. Of the media. It's at this point
40:55
Speaker 1: that Ward picks up her phone and calls her mom.
40:58
Speaker 1: Now this is any thing but a casual catch up.
41:02
Speaker 1: The Ward tells her mom that she's going to kill herself.
41:06
Speaker 1: After a few minutes, Ward hangs up hits the accelerator
41:10
Speaker 1: right into oncoming traffic. There are three vehicles that narrowly
41:16
Speaker 1: managed to avoid colliding with Ward. Then finally Ward hits
41:21
Speaker 1: a Honda Accord with such force that the impact flips
41:25
Speaker 1: her vehicle and catapults this Honda down an embankment. Ward's
41:31
Speaker 1: vehicle immediately bursts into flames right there on the highway.
41:35
Speaker 1: The other car is hidden from view, completely out of
41:39
Speaker 1: sight for the moment. Ward has just smashed into Ryan
41:44
Speaker 1: fulsome and he has just a matter of minutes before
41:48
Speaker 1: he dies. I'm overwhelmed. I've heard of, you know, homicide
41:57
Speaker 1: by suicide or suicide home side packs, but murdering another person,
42:05
Speaker 1: an unknown person, in your attempt to commit suicide. Dr
42:10
Speaker 1: Brian Russell with me, lawyer and psychologist, host of I
42:13
Speaker 1: d S Fatal Vows Hit series. Not to Russell, I
42:18
Speaker 1: guess people that are trying to commit suicide. And it
42:22
Speaker 1: has been said that every deeply thinking person has wondered,
42:27
Speaker 1: at least wondered about suicide before. But when you're in
42:30
Speaker 1: the throes of a suicidal ideation, I guess other human
42:36
Speaker 1: life means nothing to you. I I don't have the words.
42:39
Speaker 1: I'm just a lawyer to describe what I think was
42:42
Speaker 1: going on in her mind. Of course, it's no defense
42:44
Speaker 1: under the law. Dr Brian, Well, you're correct that suicide
42:48
Speaker 1: is a very self focused act. However, the vast majority
42:52
Speaker 1: of suicidal people do not intend or you know, even
42:58
Speaker 1: think about taking others out at the same time. So
43:01
Speaker 1: there's something else going on here. As you know, I
43:03
Speaker 1: had literally wrote the book on entitlement, and this is
43:05
Speaker 1: just about the height of entitlement if you think about it,
43:08
Speaker 1: that somebody is going to soothe their own psychological pain
43:12
Speaker 1: and take themselves out of this world to get away
43:15
Speaker 1: from it, but in the process that the way they're
43:17
Speaker 1: going to do that is by taking somebody else out
43:20
Speaker 1: with them, or multiple other people. It's kind of like
43:23
Speaker 1: the height of this this idea was a few years
43:27
Speaker 1: ago when when the German Wings pilot took the entire
43:30
Speaker 1: plane down as a means apparently of killing himself and
43:34
Speaker 1: took out hundreds of other people with him. Thank God,
43:37
Speaker 1: you know that this is as horrible as this is,
43:39
Speaker 1: It's amazing that she only took out one person. You know,
43:43
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a photo of her in court. She's
43:46
Speaker 1: got her whole life in front of her. Now I'm
43:49
Speaker 1: looking at the victim, Ryan Folsen's beautiful young wife and
43:55
Speaker 1: their two children, two little boys, and his wife now
43:59
Speaker 1: expect ting a third child. She Ward tells investigators reportedly
44:07
Speaker 1: that she deliberately carried out the maneuver because she wanted
44:11
Speaker 1: to kill herself. According to k r c R TV,
44:17
Speaker 1: this guy Ryan Folsom a college football start, just starting
44:21
Speaker 1: his medical career, waiting for his third child to be born.
44:26
Speaker 1: You know, Joe got Morgan. I often here, why do
44:32
Speaker 1: good people get mowed down and bad people thrive? Why?
44:38
Speaker 1: I just get overwhelmed sometime, Joe Scott by the nature
44:44
Speaker 1: of homicide, the old adage wrong place, wrong time comes
44:48
Speaker 1: to mind. Uh And the you know, the big thing
44:51
Speaker 1: about it is is, you know, I'm sure that uh,
44:54
Speaker 1: everybody would sit around and ask these questions about you know,
44:58
Speaker 1: why why why? Um? And I think that this young
45:02
Speaker 1: mother has left with the question what you know what
45:06
Speaker 1: What am I going to do? Now? What am I
45:08
Speaker 1: going to do? Now? I'm absent my partner in life here,
45:12
Speaker 1: I've got a baby on the way, I've got two
45:13
Speaker 1: other beautiful little angels that I'm taking care of, and
45:16
Speaker 1: their daddy's gone. I mean, just just wiped off of
45:20
Speaker 1: the face the planet, you know, in a millisecond, because
45:24
Speaker 1: this person drove headlong into his car, driving the engine
45:28
Speaker 1: block of his own car into his lap. Literally, these
45:31
Speaker 1: photos are horrible in this particular case. And uh, in
45:36
Speaker 1: a in an instant, in a flash. You know, it's
45:39
Speaker 1: just amazing to me, Um, how self centered this act was.
45:45
Speaker 1: To John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter, is it true
45:48
Speaker 1: her bill has been said at one point five million
45:52
Speaker 1: dollars and if she is convicted she faces life behind bars.
45:58
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the charges on the bill?
46:00
Speaker 1: That is correct, Nancy? And this woman is known to
46:07
Speaker 1: have not much in the way of of income. She
46:11
Speaker 1: was disabled, she was in a wheelchair. Um had been
46:16
Speaker 1: reported with a diagnosis of depression for many years before
46:25
Speaker 1: this incident. You know, it's just it's bad enough, it's
46:29
Speaker 1: sad enough. Let me say that someone wants to commit
46:33
Speaker 1: suicide and take steps to do it, but to take
46:36
Speaker 1: down an innocent person as you're going, you know, it's
46:41
Speaker 1: really taking me down a path that I was recalling
46:45
Speaker 1: when I learned about this story, Dr Russell. When my
46:49
Speaker 1: fiance was murdered, he was out working in a remote
46:53
Speaker 1: area on a construction site. It was almost through with
46:56
Speaker 1: his geology degree. He had been on baseball scholarship at
47:00
Speaker 1: another college that did not offer exactly the geology degree
47:04
Speaker 1: he wanted, so when he finished there he had a
47:08
Speaker 1: few classes he had to finish up at a different
47:11
Speaker 1: university to get that specific degree, and in the summer,
47:17
Speaker 1: to make money, he was working on a construction site
47:20
Speaker 1: for a guy that was a friend of his dad's
47:24
Speaker 1: that had a construction company. At lunchtime, he made the
47:28
Speaker 1: guy that he was said, Hey, I'll go drive to
47:32
Speaker 1: the closest quick trip or whatever it was and and
47:35
Speaker 1: get everybody's soft drinks and whatever you want. And he left.
47:38
Speaker 1: Who was driving back into the construction site out in
47:41
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere and standing there was a guy
47:45
Speaker 1: that had been fired off the job, I believe before
47:48
Speaker 1: Keith was ever hired. Who sees the construction truck and
47:54
Speaker 1: open fire and our plans for Mary Edge and raising
48:00
Speaker 1: a family. We were set to Elope shortly after that.
48:04
Speaker 1: It just was all gone in one moment. It really
48:10
Speaker 1: does raise that question in everyone's mind. I think that
48:13
Speaker 1: that you raised a moment ago, which is why why
48:17
Speaker 1: does this happen to a guy like Keith? Why does
48:20
Speaker 1: it happen to a guy like this young husband and
48:24
Speaker 1: father involved in this case? Just last week I heard
48:27
Speaker 1: that a wonderful woman that I've gotten to know through
48:30
Speaker 1: my television work has cancer, and I found myself thinking,
48:36
Speaker 1: why has it always somebody wonderful? And it's it's something
48:40
Speaker 1: that you know, psychology doesn't have the answer for that.
48:43
Speaker 1: That's a philosophical question. Yeah. Well, you know, Joe Scott Morgan, um,
48:48
Speaker 1: you and I have the same religious bat and in
48:55
Speaker 1: our world, nobody ever promised us the life would be easy.
49:01
Speaker 1: And in fact, our example says that life is going
49:05
Speaker 1: to be hard. So I guess that's the answer, right.
49:08
Speaker 1: Life is not always going to be easy. There are
49:12
Speaker 1: going to be steep hills we have to carry very
49:16
Speaker 1: often with a very heavy burden on our back. But
49:20
Speaker 1: then there are the moments of happiness too, So I
49:23
Speaker 1: guess that's really the answer to it. Right. It reigns
49:26
Speaker 1: on the just and the unjust, Nancy, and it's you
49:29
Speaker 1: never know where where misfortune is going to fall. You
49:33
Speaker 1: really don't, and you have to stay steadfast in in
49:37
Speaker 1: that and in the fact that you have some kind
49:40
Speaker 1: of greater hope. We don't have any control those two
49:43
Speaker 1: children though, just got these two babies. I mean, it's
49:47
Speaker 1: just overwhelming to me. And I think about this guy
49:51
Speaker 1: with a child being born, he'll never know. Two little
49:55
Speaker 1: children growing up without their dad. There is no replacement.
49:58
Speaker 1: There might be a fill in, there's no replacement for
50:01
Speaker 1: your dad, adopted or biological. You know, It's just I
50:05
Speaker 1: just I hate it. The only thing I can do
50:09
Speaker 1: now is seek justice. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off
50:17
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,